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nairepooc
03-08-2016, 10:13 AM
This is my planned layout for the panel of my CNC control.
18972
This is a proposed wiring layout which I would like comments from people please?
18973

Many thanks for taking the time to look.

ATB,
Ian

Clive S
03-08-2016, 10:27 AM
Ian. Welcome to the forum. Is there a reason for you to mount the VFD inside your control box as they generated a lot of heat and RF noise it is also difficult to get at the control panel on it.

Do you have a design for the rest of the machine for you to post up.

Good luck with the build.

nairepooc
03-08-2016, 10:41 AM
Hi Clive,

Not really with the VFD just trying to keep everything in one place.
Would mounting the VFD on the side of the cabinet be okay or on the bench closer to the machine?
I am thinking of using the V5 spindle board form DIYCNC connected to thwe BOB to control it.

Thanks for the input

Ian

Gary
03-08-2016, 11:20 AM
Why would you not put the VFD in a control cabinet?
Just because it creates heat and electrical noise is not a reason to not put it in a control cabinet.
Stepper drivers, servo drivers and power supplies create heat and electrical noise and as long as you follow standard electrical engineering practice, then all of these problems can be resolved.
Fitting an IP00 Inverted in a damp and dusty environment is not a great idea and can be dangerous.

Every inverter that i have installed went into a control cabinet and any commercial machine will have the inverter in the control cabinet, so why should it be different because its a hobby machine?



Ian. Welcome to the forum. Is there a reason for you to mount the VFD inside your control box as they generated a lot of heat and RF noise it is also difficult to get at the control panel on it.

Do you have a design for the rest of the machine for you to post up.

Good luck with the build.

nairepooc
03-08-2016, 11:47 AM
I will be using all screen cable and there is an EMI filter fitted for the VFD.
I also have some extra metal cable sheathing to enclose the VFD wires in.
I was planning on moving the VFD display up on to the face of the cabinet, by extending the cables.
Like Gary said its better I thought to keep it out of the dusty etc and keep all electrics in one secure cabinet.

Ian

routercnc
03-08-2016, 07:34 PM
My invertor is in the control cabinet and it has been OK. I made sure the power cables and signal cables were separated, cables were shielded etc. I also used a filter on the invertor power input side.

You will need air outlets at the top of the cabinet, plus I added a vent to the left of the invertor next to the fan so it drew in air from outside directly into it.

On your circuit diagram it looks OK from a quick look point of view, but be aware that the e-stop method you are using can be viewed as less safe. It just tells the breakout board/software that something bad has happened and you are relying on software to stop the motors.

It's a bit more work, and there are plenty of threads on here showing how it can be done, but it is considered safer to have the e-stop trip out a relay, which in turn trips out a contactor which stops mains going into the power supplies, thereby stopping the motors 'physically'. The e-stop relay also has extra terminals which inform the software to stop sending pulses.
You need to configure the relay to have a latching function, or use a Pilz type unit (purpose built, but more expensive).

I ran my previous machine for years in the software only e-stop mode, as you have it, but I'm glad I have the hard stop method setup now for the extra safety.

nairepooc
03-08-2016, 07:55 PM
Yes I have 2 off 12v fans with metal mesh filters to blow air into the cabinet from the top with 2 side slots for evacuation of the warm air. All cables for VFD and from the motor drivers are shielded and grounded (once).
I have re-drawn the circuit based on a plan from a thread on here from the user Jazz.
The E-stop is based on this design and does not rely on the bob/software to stop things.
Just not sure about this latching business or what a pilz unit is.
Maybe someone can shed some light on this or on the updated wiring plan that will be uploaded soon.
Cheers,
Ian

nairepooc
03-08-2016, 08:45 PM
This is the updated schematic;
Pointers would be welcome.
18978

Many thanks,
Ian

routercnc
03-08-2016, 10:12 PM
OK, I think that relay will latch when you hit the reset, then stay on until you hit the e-stop. This will tell the BOB to stop.

BUT ! - it looks like you are switching the mains live feed through the same 12V relay ? Don't do this. You need a contactor in-between. This is like a relay but can handle mains voltage and has purposed built contacts. It is controlled by a low voltage signal - i.e. one coming out of the safety relay.

Either revert back to your first design, or get familiar and be happy with contactors and mains control.

nairepooc
03-08-2016, 11:14 PM
How to I learn about contactor and mains control?

m_c
04-08-2016, 12:41 AM
There's nothing wrong with using a relay to switch mains voltage, provided it's rated for the voltage and current.
However going by the latest wiring diagram, you'll struggle to get a relay capable of the required current with 5 contacts. The VFD will draw 8 amps at full power, and along with the stepper PSUs, there will also be a surge during power up.
You could use a 3PDT relay, such as RS part number 536-912 which is rated at 10A and power the VFD and PSUs via one contact, however I'd personally use something like 488-2610 with one for the VFD, one for the PSUs, and one for the E-stop circuit.

Note, both those part numbers are for relays with 24VDC coils, but will give you an idea of the type of relays, as they're both a pretty common style/size of relay.

Gary
04-08-2016, 08:11 AM
this is what we use.
Circuit breakers
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/circuit-protection-and-isolation/mcb-and-rcd-devices/miniature-circuit-breakers-1-to-63a.html
(We use type D)

Contacts
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/relays/contactors/four-pole-contactors/iec-operating-current-ith-ac1-20a.html

Emergency relay
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/breakout-boards/safety-relays.html

and for switches, estops and momentary pushbuttons.

http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/control-signalling.html

nairepooc
04-08-2016, 08:35 AM
Thank you both for your informations, I will be checking that lot out and ordering as required.

I also found a link to this guide;

http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Machine%20Control/0140CT9201.pdf

So will be checking this out, the table 3 shows something I believe.

Many thanks,
Ian

nairepooc
04-08-2016, 11:17 AM
You could use a 3PDT relay, such as RS part number 536-912 which is rated at 10A and power the VFD and PSUs via one contact, however I'd personally use something like 488-2610 with one for the VFD, one for the PSUs, and one for the E-stop circuit.

Note, both those part numbers are for relays with 24VDC coils, but will give you an idea of the type of relays, as they're both a pretty common style/size of relay.

HI m_c,

Is it possible to use a boost converter to input 12VDC up to 24VDC to power the RS items or do I need a dedicated 24VDC PSU?

Just trying to work through what is best to do?

Many thanks,
Ian

m_c
04-08-2016, 12:31 PM
You could use a booster, however 12VDC versions of those relays should be available.
I only gave the 24VDC part numbers, as those are what I use, and had the numbers handy.

12V version of 3PDT is 536-900, and DPDT is 488-2604

What is best to do depends on the machine, and how you implement safety features.
Going by the components you have listed, I'm going to guess this is a reasonably sized router?
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about limit switches, as provided the design is good, should you run into a hard limit, the motor will stall and simply sit stay stalled. With dual Y axis, I'd be more concerned about racking, but no limit switch is going to prevent that.
If I was to fit limit switches, I'd hard wire them into the E-stop circuit, as you want things to stop as quickly as possible should you hit one, but then that means you can't use the limit switches for homing.

In a commercial setting, safety relays are good, however for smaller home machines I personally think they are overkill. The major benefit of them is they monitor the contacts, so should a set of contacts stick/weld shut, they'll prevent the machine from starting. If you were to use standard relays, should contacts stick shut, you would be none the wiser unless you noticed power was still on when it shouldn't be.
There are also time delayed safety relays, which purpose is to maintain power to certain circuits for a short period. A good application of them is servo controlled machines, where when the E-stop is triggered, it subsequently triggers the servo drives to carry out a fast stop, before then killing power to the drives after a few seconds. This allows the machine to be stop safely under power, before all power is removed, as otherwise the servos risk freewheeling to a stop without power.

As for contactors. They are essentially just a big relay, however they're contact design means they're less likely to fail/weld shut. Whereas a typical relay has a single contact that opens/closes, a contactor works by bridging two contacts with a bar/plate. Should a contactor weld shut, it's unlikely both ends of the bar will weld, so when it releases the opposite end should still break the circuit. Off course, unless you have monitored contactors, you'd be none the wiser unless the contactor failed completely.

The big thing though, is regardless of relays or contactors, is provided they're sized/rated/fused correctly, you should not have any problems with contacts welding or burning out.
My concern would be inrush currents as things initially get powered up. Even though the VFD/Spindle maybe only needs 8A under full load, it could have a power on surge of 20A as the internal capacitors charge up. The same for the switch mode power supplies. Any good technical data/specification sheet will state surge currents.

nairepooc
04-08-2016, 12:49 PM
Wow m_c,

Super lot of information there. I had just found the 488-2604 myself ;-)
Seems I have a lot to learn.

Yes the machine is 800mm X axis, 1000mm Y axis and 300mm Z axis.

Like you say next thing is limits or homing!

Once agian many thanks :thumsup:

nairepooc
04-08-2016, 06:33 PM
Updated wiring with fuses and RS part numbers, etc.
Hope this is workable?
18983

routercnc
04-08-2016, 10:11 PM
One of the things I thought about was how best to fuse the 2 drivers which drive each side of the gantry.

I originally had one per driver, but in the end went for double the current rating and fed them both from the same fuse. If the fuse blew, it would stop the gantry.

With one fuse per side it would twist. I posted for opinions at the time but got nothing back.

nairepooc
04-08-2016, 10:31 PM
One of the things I thought about was how best to fuse the 2 drivers which drive each side of the gantry.

I originally had one per driver, but in the end went for double the current rating and fed them both from the same fuse. If the fuse blew, it would stop the gantry.

With one fuse per side it would twist. I posted for opinions at the time but got nothing back.


That is a great idea and not one that immediatly springs to mind.
I will incorporate that into the design.

Many thanks,
Ian

nairepooc
10-08-2016, 08:41 AM
I now have all my bits around me and startng to work through the wiring schematic;
Parts are;
2 off 36V - 400W PSU (for drivers)
1 off 24V - 60W 2.5A mini rail mount PSU
1 off 5V - 10W 2A mini rail mount PSU
1 off CP0-10V BOB (cnc4you)
4 off CW5045 (cnc4you)
1 off UC300 (cnc4you)
2 off E-Stops (2 pos NC)
4 off 24V 10A DPDT rail mount relays
1 off 4A type D MCB rail mount
1 off 10A type D MCB rail mount
1 off Rotary panel disconnect
1 off 10A EMI filter (cnc4you)
1 off Green reset (NO) panel push button
2 off 24V fans (blown air into cabinet)
1 off Green panel mount led (5Vdc - live)
1 off Yellow panel mount led (24Vdc - live)
2 off White panel mount leds (36Vdc - live)
1 off VFD - HY02D223B
1 off 2.2 water cooled spindle

DIN rail mounting and red, black, yellow and fused connectors.

Oh and I have been given a PILZ PNOZ 16S safety unit, just not too sure how to incorporate this.

Any help would be most welcome guys :congratulatory:

komatias
10-08-2016, 11:49 AM
Hi,

just noticed you have a board that links between the BOB and the 0-10V line on the VFD. Is this correct?

From the photo you have used, I think that your BOB is actually able to regulate the 0-10V on its own without an additional input. Worth reading the manual on that to double check.

nairepooc
10-08-2016, 12:24 PM
Hi,

just noticed you have a board that links between the BOB and the 0-10V line on the VFD. Is this correct?

From the photo you have used, I think that your BOB is actually able to regulate the 0-10V on its own without an additional input. Worth reading the manual on that to double check.

The BOB I have which is the KK01 from cnc4you does not allow connection to the VFD to control the spindle. I asked cnc4you and there is some legal or safety issue.
So that the previous drawings are all wrong.
Looking through posts from m_c, RouterCNC and Jazzcnc I have gotten certain ideas and now I have purchased the correct BOB from cnc4you I can control the VFD via the BOB.
Thanks for taking the time to view my build thread.

Neale
10-08-2016, 12:44 PM
Just to be clear, opinions expressed below are not definitive or instructions to others, but are how I've built my own control cabinet.

Firstly, forget any idea that a fuse or MCB protects the thing that they feed. Any electronic engineer will tell you that a transistor is the fastest fuse known to man. If a driver's protection circuitry fails to protect against overload, it's probable that a fuse or MCB will still be scratching its head by the time that the driver has let out the magic smoke. What the MCB does do is protect against the effect on, usually, the wiring which is now carrying fault currents and where there is now a risk of fire. I have used a single 10A d-curve MCB to feed the whole cabinet; my hope is that this will protect the wiring against a major fault in any component. VFD is outside the cabinet, separately fused, by the way.

Power comes into the cabinet, then via MCB to two-pole isolating switch. Power then goes to auxiliary power supplies (5/12/24V for various things). I use a CSMIO motion controller which is powered at this point, together with "power on" panel LED. I use a Pilz safety relay (picked up cheap from eBay). A momentary push button turns on the safety relay which latches on. One set of contacts feeds the e-stop input on the motion controller, configured so that this enables the MC. A second contact feeds a 24V relay to provide mains to the linear PSU for the drivers, plus second panel LED. A third contact is used to enable the drivers. E-stop wiring connects to the safety relay; all switches wired in series and any switch will cause the relay to drop out so sending e-stop to motion controller, disabling drivers, and cutting mains power to drivers. That seems to cover most of the safety bases, at this kind of level. At the moment, the driver fault outputs are wired in parallel to the appropriate motion controller input so, for example, driver stall detect should stop motion. Limit switches do not trigger e-stop.

Using multiple contacts on the safety relay means reduced relay count (just one, for switching the linear power supply to keep mains off the safety relay contacts), while not relying on motion controller firmware alone for safety functions.

I haven't bothered talking about things like VFD connections to the motion controller, or coolant pump switching, as these are subject to individual designs, and I'm sorry that I don't have a wiring diagram as I've never drawn one... Don't know if there are any thoughts in there that might help - happy to discuss further if need be, or defend myself against other points of view!

nairepooc
10-08-2016, 01:00 PM
@Neale,

That's a great deal of information and something I am going to have to digest.
I am not an electrical engineer at all, my background is mechanical engineering.
But with an enquiring mind and some help from people on here I hope to be able to build a decent control panel.
My biggest concern it that if wired wrong then it could "KILL" me or at the very least cause some damage.
I can follow wiring diagrams etc and work through things (Other hobby is OO gauge model railway).
So I was hoping that someone maybe would be able to help out with a schematic or something to point in the right direction, so I do not make the good lady a widow!

Neale
10-08-2016, 09:29 PM
I've bought some stuff from Chalon online, but I get things like relays, panel switches and LEDs, from Electric Center. They have the great advantage of having a branch near me, but there are lots of branches across the country. I'm sure that there are equivalents trading under other names - that one happens to suit.

Neale
10-08-2016, 09:38 PM
That's a great deal of information and something I am going to have to digest.
I am not an electrical engineer at all, my background is mechanical engineering.
But with an enquiring mind and some help from people on here I hope to be able to build a decent control panel.
My biggest concern it that if wired wrong then it could "KILL" me or at the very least cause some damage.
I can follow wiring diagrams etc and work through things (Other hobby is OO gauge model railway).
So I was hoping that someone maybe would be able to help out with a schematic or something to point in the right direction, so I do not make the good lady a widow!
I've been thinking about that, and I'm not sure how to help further (apart from sitting together over a glass of something invigorating with the back of a big envelope and a pencil). The trouble is that everyone uses a slightly different set of components. For example, you are using a UC300, I'm using a CSMIO-IP/M. Functionally very similar but not quite the same, and with different wiring connections. My safety relay will be very similar to but again different from (and maybe in critical areas) yours. Maybe just posting a diagram of what you propose to do and let people comment, as you are doing, is the best way forwards. If it helps, the take-away points from my earlier post are that you might not need lots of MCBs, just one correctly rated (and with appropriate cabinet wiring), and that the safety relay might do the job of several single relays as it has multiple contact sets and that could simplify things.

nairepooc
11-08-2016, 08:14 AM
I've bought some stuff from Chalon online, but I get things like relays, panel switches and LEDs, from Electric Center. They have the great advantage of having a branch near me, but there are lots of branches across the country. I'm sure that there are equivalents trading under other names - that one happens to suit.


I have accounts with RS components, Rapid and Chalon.
Those are the major players who I have used to purchase the items through plus a few from FleeBay (of course).
Where abouts are you located or would a PM be better to discuss the possibilities of a little meeting with a large note pad and something warming to drink?

Neale
11-08-2016, 10:06 PM
I'm based in South Devon, which from your profile is a bit far (unless you fancy a break by the sea!). However, not sure if your interests lie in that direction but I shall be at the Bristol model engineering exhibition next week for all three days and I would be very happy to meet there. Otherwise, happy to communicate by email or whatever - send a pm if that suits.

nairepooc
12-08-2016, 08:07 AM
I'm based in South Devon, which from your profile is a bit far (unless you fancy a break by the sea!). However, not sure if your interests lie in that direction but I shall be at the Bristol model engineering exhibition next week for all three days and I would be very happy to meet there. Otherwise, happy to communicate by email or whatever - send a pm if that suits.

Well South Devon sounds nice, but as I am already booked away for the next couple of weeks will have to give it a miss Neale!
So it looks like long distance emails;
Many of the bits have arrived now so it looks good.

nairepooc
12-08-2016, 09:42 AM
Well I have spent the last week reviewing many members builds on here and I have to say I have a lot more knowledge than when I started this build.
The cabinet builds of @EddyCurrent, @RouterCNC, @m_c and the various comments made by @JazzCNC along with the main person responding to my thread @Neale.
I am away for a few weeks R&R so plan to create my schematics during this time.
Viso will be my software of choice so once I have something that people and comment/advise me on then it will be posted.
Once again reading others post has given me great information and thank you for sharing your builds.
:beer:
Ian

Neale
12-08-2016, 09:45 AM
Good luck with it, Ian - it's easy really once you have a few basics under your belt! And the folks on this forum are quick to pick up any errors - you won't be allowed to get away with anything...

A_Camera
12-08-2016, 03:48 PM
This is my planned layout for the panel of my CNC control.
18972
This is a proposed wiring layout which I would like comments from people please?
18973

Many thanks for taking the time to look.

ATB,
Ian

Perhaps it is too late now, but here are some things I'd do differently...

I would move that VFD out of the cabinet. You will likely experience some problems with the UC300 in the middle and so near the VFD. The other alternative to moving out the VFD is to move out the UC300 into it's own shielded box.

The other modification I'd do is to install the PSUs in an orientation which would allow the fans to cool and would allow easier wiring. As it is now, you can't stick a screw driver inside the cabinet to attach/detach wires, you have to remove each PSU, screw in all the wires and install the PSU in the cabinet again. That is going to create some practical problems and may result in a not so nice wiring in the end.

A question... are you planning to feed the UC300 with an external +5V? I think that's better than using the PC USB power. Make sure your +5V is very clean otherwise you may experience problems with the UC300. The other thing is that if you want to control the VFD spindle speed with 0-10V you can do that from the UC300 directly, but if you will use Mach3, or some other software with Modbus capabilities than a neater solution is to use the RS485. Considerably better than digital outputs and 0-10V, also demands less and easier wiring.

nairepooc
12-08-2016, 07:10 PM
Perhaps it is too late now, but here are some things I'd do differently...

I would move that VFD out of the cabinet. You will likely experience some problems with the UC300 in the middle and so near the VFD. The other alternative to moving out the VFD is to move out the UC300 into it's own shielded box.

The other modification I'd do is to install the PSUs in an orientation which would allow the fans to cool and would allow easier wiring. As it is now, you can't stick a screw driver inside the cabinet to attach/detach wires, you have to remove each PSU, screw in all the wires and install the PSU in the cabinet again. That is going to create some practical problems and may result in a not so nice wiring in the end.

A question... are you planning to feed the UC300 with an external +5V? I think that's better than using the PC USB power. Make sure your +5V is very clean otherwise you may experience problems with the UC300. The other thing is that if you want to control the VFD spindle speed with 0-10V you can do that from the UC300 directly, but if you will use Mach3, or some other software with Modbus capabilities than a neater solution is to use the RS485. Considerably better than digital outputs and 0-10V, also demands less and easier wiring.


Nothing is ever written in stone, the one is a porposed idea and the second which looks like its fixed was laying out the components to see what it looked like.
Things have moved on since then, I now am using din rail with 5vdc and 24vdc psu's the two 36vdc psu's are going to be mounted flat one above the other, loads of room to do that.
The VFD will be in the enclosure, with double screened cables and fed via an emi 10A filter.
The UC300 & BOB have been relocated at the bottom of the case well away from the VFD.
All screens and earths to a star earth point.
I will upload photos of all the component laters.

nairepooc
31-08-2016, 02:34 PM
Well back of the olde Jolly Holidays, and its back to working through things.
I have found out that I cannot control the VFD via Mach with the current BOB, so need to swap for the CPO-10V from CNC4YOU.
I have in my minds eye how the control cabinet layout is going to be, but just to be on the safeside I have drawn some shapes in Viso and moving them around to see what's best. (I know no CAD, but me thinks I must learn one).
The pencil drawings of the main machine do not allow me much way of checking things plus it takes ages to drawin with pencil and paper so I guess I must bite the bullet and decide on a CAD package to start to learn and work my scribbed designs through.

That will give you guys something to comment on and advise me on what I am trying to build.
TTFN

A_Camera
31-08-2016, 03:40 PM
Well back of the olde Jolly Holidays, and its back to working through things.
I have found out that I cannot control the VFD via Mach with the current BOB, so need to swap for the CPO-10V from CNC4YOU.
I have in my minds eye how the control cabinet layout is going to be, but just to be on the safeside I have drawn some shapes in Viso and moving them around to see what's best. (I know no CAD, but me thinks I must learn one).
The pencil drawings of the main machine do not allow me much way of checking things plus it takes ages to drawin with pencil and paper so I guess I must bite the bullet and decide on a CAD package to start to learn and work my scribbed designs through.

That will give you guys something to comment on and advise me on what I am trying to build.
TTFNBut the UC300 has a 0-10V output also. Why do you need the BoB for that? Use the analog output of the UC300.

nairepooc
31-08-2016, 04:10 PM
But the UC300 has a 0-10V output also. Why do you need the BoB for that? Use the analog output of the UC300.


Hi,
If you read the UC300 manual in the Safety Notes it advises the connection through and Optically Isolated Breakout Board (BOB) to motor drives and external sensors!
19114
Thats whay I am buying the CPO-10V as recommended by CNC4YOU.
Unless anyone else can offer something?

A_Camera
01-09-2016, 10:40 AM
Hi,
If you read the UC300 manual in the Safety Notes it advises the connection through and Optically Isolated Breakout Board (BOB) to motor drives and external sensors!
19114
Thats whay I am buying the CPO-10V as recommended by CNC4YOU.
Unless anyone else can offer something?

This is the sentence I answered: "I have found out that I cannot control the VFD via Mach with the current BOB, so need to swap for the CPO-10V from CNC4YOU."

All you need is to configure the UC300 plugin, Mach3 will handle it accordingly. If your BoB provides optical isolation on the digital inputs/outputs than you should be safe. I have never heard anyone putting optical isolators on the analog 0-10V to VFD. I think the VFD has that protection already. In fact, my VFD has optical isolators on the digital inputs/outputs also, and I think even cheap Chinese VFDs have that, so the VFD could be controlled safely even without a BoB. Stepper drivers are a totally different thing... not everyone of those has optical isolation. But... A BoB is necessary to have if you are using a UC300 because you need to split the signals to be able to install all the external devices.

BTW, I have the UC300 and been using it for quite a while now, and also read the manual...

In fact, just looked at your cabinet picture, and it looks like you have similar drivers to mine, your CW5045 are also supposed to have optical isolators on the inputs, so even those are safe to run with direct connection, but using a BoB to split the signals is more practical, even if not necessary in your (and my) case.

nairepooc
01-09-2016, 11:28 AM
This is the sentence I answered: "I have found out that I cannot control the VFD via Mach with the current BOB, so need to swap for the CPO-10V from CNC4YOU."


I didn't know that was the question you were answering



All you need is to configure the UC300 plugin, Mach3 will handle it accordingly. If your BoB provides optical isolation on the digital inputs/outputs than you should be safe. I have never heard anyone putting optical isolators on the analog 0-10V to VFD. I think the VFD has that protection already. In fact, my VFD has optical isolators on the digital inputs/outputs also, and I think even cheap Chinese VFDs have that, so the VFD could be controlled safely even without a BoB. Stepper drivers are a totally different thing... not everyone of those has optical isolation. But... A BoB is necessary to have if you are using a UC300 because you need to split the signals to be able to install all the external devices.


I am new to all this electrical stuff and can only go on what I have found both off this forum and the manuals, the BOB that I have I wanted to control the VFD as you understand, but in talking to CNC4YOU they said the BOB I had was the basic one and needed the other type.
Plugin? what does this do or where can I find one?



BTW, I have the UC300 and been using it for quite a while now, and also read the manual...


I did not mean that you didn't understand what I was talking about, I had no knowledge that you used the UC300, but I am glad that you do and manybe you can advise me in the future with connections?



In fact, just looked at your cabinet picture, and it looks like you have similar drivers to mine, your CW5045 are also supposed to have optical isolators on the inputs, so even those are safe to run with direct connection, but using a BoB to split the signals is more practical, even if not necessary in your (and my) case.

Thank you for looking at my proposed build, maybe I am using the BOB and do not need it as the CW5045 have the optical isolators, I could find any wiring or interface drawings to help me......with direct connection from the UC300.
maybe if your willing you can explain how I can setup the UC300 so I do not have to purchase the new BOB as I have not done that as yet?
Hoping you can,
Ian

A_Camera
01-09-2016, 01:07 PM
I didn't know that was the question you were answering



I am new to all this electrical stuff and can only go on what I have found both off this forum and the manuals, the BOB that I have I wanted to control the VFD as you understand, but in talking to CNC4YOU they said the BOB I had was the basic one and needed the other type.
In principle everybody is right, both CNC4YOU and I, and the UC300 manual...

The BoB you have can not be used to control the VFD with, unless you are ready to adjust the speed manually, or use a digital pulse or PWM signal, if that is possible with your VFD and BoB. To control the spindle speed using 0-10V you need another BoB... if you want to do it via a BoB. CNC4YOU may not be familiar with the UC300 and it's capabilities, only that the BoB you have does not have what it takes to get the 0-10VDC analogue out signal.

The UC300 manual is right because it is written for everybody, not a specific use. Balazs, the creator of the UC300, can not know or limit the application, so he rightfully warns the users that the UC300 does not have optical isolation, so you must aware of that and use a proper BoB.

I am right, because based on what I have, i.e. UC300, the Bosch Rexroth VFD, DQ542MA drivers, I know that my drivers and the VFD has optically isolated inputs, so in principle I would not need a BoB. Never the less, I use one, because of practical reasons, and because my probe, limit switches and E-stop otherwise would not be isolated. I would not recommend anyone not to use a BoB for the same reasons, even the inputs must be isolated, and unless your limit switches are not isolated you should use a BoB. In my previous post I forgot about the limit switch inputs, but because you already have a BoB, that part falls under digital inputs and outputs isolation, and you have solved that already with your BoB.


Plugin? what does this do or where can I find one?

http://cncdrive.com/UC300.html

That is the source to get all the installation files necessary for the UC300. The manual explains the installation process, as well as how to connect the outputs and configure the use of analogue outputs. I have tested this and it works as described, but I am using Modbus and RS485 to control the VFD, so I am not using the 0-10V output. Once you have installed the driver and your UC300 is recognized by and configured in Mach3 you can use the 0-10V to control the spindle speed.


I did not mean that you didn't understand what I was talking about, I had no knowledge that you used the UC300, but I am glad that you do and manybe you can advise me in the future with connections?
Ask and I'll answer if I can, but this forum and the Internet is full of information, so even if I will not have time or won't be able to answer, there are many others.



Thank you for looking at my proposed build, maybe I am using the BOB and do not need it as the CW5045 have the optical isolators, I could find any wiring or interface drawings to help me......with direct connection from the UC300.

It is better to use a BoB, even if you may not need it. It makes connecting things easier, as well as it provides optical isolation also on the inputs. It is also very easy to plug in to the UC300, so there is really no reason for not using one, even if it is possible based on the stepper drivers. I don't know your VFD, so I can not say how the inputs are for that one. I did have a quick look at your wiring diagram, but have no time to check every wire and connection. I am sorry for that.


maybe if your willing you can explain how I can setup the UC300 so I do not have to purchase the new BOB as I have not done that as yet?
Hoping you can,
Ian
If you have a specific question I will try to answer, but like I said, I don't know your BoB, or the VFD you are using and also I don't control my VFD via digital outputs and 0-10V. I did test it once but I use RS485 Modbus communication, using only two wires out of a USB dongle. This is controlled from Mach3. When it comes to the UC300, it is just a USB motion controller with some digital outputs to control my stepper drivers via this BoB:

19115

I have 0-10V out from the BoB also, but it is not as stable and linear as the UC300 analogue output is. Again, for ease of connection reasons, if I'd use the 0-10V to control spindle speed, I'd use the BoB, but if I would not have this one, I'd use the UC300 output directly.

I can show you my settings for the UC300, but have no possibility to test other settings or configurations. Basically what I did before I received the UC300 was that I read the manual and knew it will work for my needs and when I received it I just followed the manual practically word for word, connected it, installed the drivers, updated the firmware and checked it out. The manual pretty well describes how to install and configure it, but if you have a specific question, don't hesitate to ask, I'll answer if I can, or somebody else will hopefully chime in.

If all else fails, you can always contact Balazs. He is very busy but normally answers all mail questions quickly through the web contact details (http://cncdrive.com/contact.html). Of course, he may tell you to contact CNC4YOU since you bought the UC300 via them, I don't know, but it is worth a try if you can't get answers elsewhere.

nairepooc
07-09-2016, 01:14 PM
Progress photos of the cabinet build for your viewing;
19145191461914719148191491915019151

Due to the size limitations, I have raised the main DIN rail so that I can cable between devices. You can see the braid cable sleeves with heat shrink to keep things tidy.
More photos to follow I hope.

routercnc
07-09-2016, 01:40 PM
Interesting idea to raise one of the DIN rails. I'm far from an expert on this but am wondering if having most of the earths going to the lower DIN rail makes that your main earth star point and having the island of earths on the raised DIN rail give the potential for loops / inductance (if that is the right term). I see you have an earth block on the raised rail, plus the earth wire going down to the main star point, plus the parallel earth routes through the all-thread. This doesn't quite seem right but definitately one for an expert opinion . . .

nairepooc
07-09-2016, 02:58 PM
Interesting idea to raise one of the DIN rails. I'm far from an expert on this but am wondering if having most of the earths going to the lower DIN rail makes that your main earth star point and having the island of earths on the raised DIN rail give the potential for loops / inductance (if that is the right term). I see you have an earth block on the raised rail, plus the earth wire going down to the main star point, plus the parallel earth routes through the all-thread. This doesn't quite seem right but definitately one for an expert opinion . . .

There is only the incoming earth onto the top rail, this then distributes to the bottom "STAR" earth and all components will be erathed back here.
Nothing as far as I am aware is earthed directly through the DIN rail so nothing will ground through this and the allthread.
Again like yourself just my idea, but am willing to be corrected as always ;-)

njhussey
07-09-2016, 04:06 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160907/a8ea27184053315468c92e3cbc039d6b.jpg

My earth terminals look like this. I'm assuming that most use the same principle in that they earth to the DIN rail, in which case your top DIN rail is earthed through the allthread to your panels back plate. If your's don't earth to the DIN rail then you're OK :thumsup:

nairepooc
07-09-2016, 06:43 PM
Hi Neil,

Ah there lies in the issue.
I ordered Yellow standard DIN rail connectors and coloured them with a Green sharpie.
Therefore I have a plastic bottom and on contact to the DIN rail.
Sorry for the confussion guys