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View Full Version : Changing to Hiwin design from round supported parts advice grateful.



grain_r
12-09-2016, 10:57 PM
Hello

My build has been going slower than i thought and to build my current round rail design and upgrade will take a lifetime so i have Emailed Fred at BST Automation. I thought it would be easiest if I got everything at once to make the freight cost better. but i'm not really sure if i have got everything correct on my parts e.g the correct voltage for the motors and drivers. i haven't asked him for power supplies because i Forgot.

Would you say its better to do it this way or buy the parts as and when. It would make my simple brain think the build was a better price to fool me and make the nearly truths more believable to my wife:cocksure:.

Here it is my great pleasure to quota the price for you,for
Hiwin 20 mm Rails & Blocks

2pcs hgr20 - 1200mm Rails
2pcs hgr20 – 1000 mm Rails
2pcs hgr20 – 300mm Rails
12pcs HGH20CA Carriage


1set RM1605-L1000mm ball screw with ballnut
In standard end machined and 1000mm is the overall length.
1set BK12/BF12 End support
1pcs 1605 ballnut bracket
4pcs 8x10 Flexible coupling

X1 Water Cooling Spindle Kit 2.2KW CNC Milling Spindle Motor + 2.2KW VFD + 80mm clamp + water pump / water pipe for CNC Router

X4 Nema23 3A 425oz-in Motors
X4 Motor Controllers

Best price is USD1300.00,included the freight by Fedex.


Some details,
1)The Linear rail and carraige are in original HIWIN brand.
2)We will machining the ball screw end in standard,and 1000mm will be the overall length,included the machined part.
3)The BK12/BF12 we quota to you are in cheaper type with Deep groove ball bearing,if you prefer higher accuracy and the BK12 in Angular contact bearing,we can offer to you,and the cost will increase USD18.00.
4)Not fully understand what's your meanning of "X3 1605 Couplers",maybe you mean need some extra coupling?and I quota to you for 4pcs 8x10mm coupling to you,8mm are for the stepper motor shaft,and 10mm are the machined ball screw end.
5)The NEMA23 motor we quota to you are in 8mm shaft diameter,3A and 425oz-in.


Delivery can be arranged in 5-7 working days.


Anything can do for you,please contact,thanks.

Thanks for your reply.


The motor driver is DM542 model,
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=15f289e309&view=fimg&th=1571eba3620a4294&attid=0.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ8RdadTr71KN34DBna_aG3-Kg3hpSrJHjF7dOuOMukBauqCfWnbXKhe2ACVBdeNhzHpMSVEi5 WgHSgZyH6QRYw0W9cFygQR5VY1DTf7cJfCfYArffjjS0vZjAY&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1473706439931&rm=1571eba3620a4294&zw&atsh=1


For 2.2kw spindle motor,will send 4pcs bearing version to you.and the main spec. is,
1) Dimension: 80*240 mm
2) Power: 2.2KW
3) Voltage: 220V
4) Frequency: 400 Hz
5) Speed: 0-24000 R/min
6) Water Cooled
7) ER20 collets chuck
8) Runout off: less than 0.02mm


Best wishes
Fred



I would be very grateful if you could look to see if i'm on the right road, Last time I went ahead with the sbr20 without asking ans regretted it. the machine isnt really designed for any particular use and so an all rounder is hoped for and hopefully make a little back in time on small jobs

Thanks

Rob

Clive S
13-09-2016, 12:06 AM
Rob it's hard to answer questions without the machine details why don't you keep all the questions in one build thread and then others and me can follow along.

Do you already have some parts or is this supposed to be the complete setup for the machine.
In item 3 above he say he has priced for deep groove bearings the Angular contact bearings are much better. I also would be buying the motors from cnc4you as you will know what you age getting and they are tried and tested.

grain_r
13-09-2016, 09:59 AM
Good Morning Clive

Thank you for the reply.

My Build Log is here http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7936-a-Steel-Box-Section-Build-with-SBR20-Ballscrews-Plus-a-few-questions?p=83396#post83396

although not so much building has happened just lately after the arrival of our new baby girl although I occasionally get to the garage for a few minutes.

Being a silly billy I originally bought the SBR20 rails and ballscrews 1605's from Aliexpress and then researched after which I now realise wasnt the way but a good learning curve I have nearly got my frame and because of the time taken I don't want to come out with a second rate machine.

The parts I have are 1000mm SBR20, 500SBR20,& 300MM SBR20 Rails and the ballscrews to go with them I though I would sell the rails but keep the screws and then come out with a better machine its all that deans fault :05.18-flustered:

I will have a look through cnc4you
I need to go through the logs of the machines for the electronics because I havn't really been working on that part but it's difficult to know where to start And I don't want to get it wrong this time.


thank you

Rob

Clive S
13-09-2016, 02:32 PM
Ok Rob either keep using your build log or start a new one and keep it all in one place. Have you any drawing done for the nee machine? I would not buy any electronics until you have the basic design done. The drives I would use would be AM882 or similar ( they will handle 80V and are known to be good and tested.)

Are you going to design it with belts and pulleys . If you are using two motors on X have you considered one motor with a belt between the two. Like Dean does.

grain_r
13-09-2016, 03:44 PM
Good Afternoon Clive

Thanks for the reply. Yes I will keep it ijn my Build log I was going too but I thought I should put it in the right forum section but I prefer to keep it all in the same place.

No I haven't altered the drawings although I know what I want to achieve in my mind. It will essentially be the same design as it was going to be with the SBR Round rails and I did design it for rails to be upgraded later in mind but I couldn't stand the thought of having drilled the holes and then swapping and it just looking so messy.
I did think originally for opting for the 1 motor and pulleys but I just couldn't get the design right because I want to be able to end mill and so I wanted to keep the ends free to clamp too although I have through after I will be able to take the spoil board off and clamp to the frame center section.

It does seem like I'm not on the best path to get everything from Fred So maybe It will be best to get the rails and the Ball-screw and then when i'm further down the road to research individual items.

I will certainly look at the AM882 driver so thank you very much for giving me a starting point to look at.

I still have a long way to go I feel before the Spindle goes in. My excitement gets ahead of me. Are the Am882 best to go for somewhere like cnc4you or are the Chinese versions the same ?

I probably should be looking at the epoxy level before the other items.


thank you

Clive S
13-09-2016, 04:21 PM
Ok then post some current pics up the the build log and start from there.

Jonathan
13-09-2016, 11:21 PM
One not so obvious consideration is the ballscrews getting bent in shipping. I'm not sure if this is an issue with BST, but ordering everything in one go can help as it makes the package stronger.

A_Camera
14-09-2016, 11:16 AM
One thing I'd definitely would change in that order is the flexible couplings. Those are not suitable in my opinion. Get the lovejoy type, much better. It demands better alignment but offer also better accuracy, less vibration and better speed response. Not a very high cost and easily can be changed to at a later stage if you want to try what's included in your order, but considering the overall costs, I think it is better to do it now, and not waiting.

mekanik
14-09-2016, 01:59 PM
Hi
I would not use direct coupling Motor/Ballscrew use belt and pully, Dean always recommends this setup to reduce resonance.
Regards
Mike

JAZZCNC
14-09-2016, 02:10 PM
I'm not sure if this is an issue with BST, but ordering everything in one go can help as it makes the package stronger.

Freds is the most well packaged stuff I've ever had from china. For larger orders mine always comes in wooden box. Smaller orders like just couple of ballscrews come in cardboard box like most others but I've not had a bent one yet from Fred.

grain_r
14-09-2016, 05:27 PM
Hey Guys

Thanks for the replies, I will be going for the pulley option so I will leave those off and get the belt and pulleys after thank you very much for that I would have ordered them without needing them. The wooden Box is always handy too. I have been pricing the cnc4you pricing and Fred is working out at a better price although as said the quality on the spindle has been tested. although it does sound like freds items are of good quality. I think I will take the Drivers off though or ask if he can get them.

I'm really sorry it might be a silly question but for the Drivers to go to 80v I assume that the power supply is the part that defines the amount of power depending on a power output. and would the motor need to be a 80v and above to use this power.

Thank you

Rob

JAZZCNC
14-09-2016, 06:14 PM
Rob your buying when you don't know what your buying and this is sure fire way to waste money. The fact your asking about Voltage shows you haven't done much research and don't understand how Voltage and motor relate to each other which is very crucial relationship for performance. So how can you buy these items when you don't know what you need.?

Can I suggest you slow down and hang fire on the buying until your know exactly what you need. Fred is great to deal with for rails and ballscrews but there are better cheaper places for drives and spindle etc.

Believe I gave you my Email and phone number so time ago so give me ring if your not sure. If not the ask and I'll give it you.

If you buy blind you will regret it. DONT TRUST suppliers to give you the best components or components which best suit your machine. They will always give you what's best for them first ie: In stock or Old stock.!!

A_Camera
14-09-2016, 08:19 PM
Hi
I would not use direct coupling Motor/Ballscrew use belt and pully, Dean always recommends this setup to reduce resonance.
Regards
MikeI have no idea who Dean is, but if you mean rigid coupling then I agree, that should not be used, but the lovejoy couplers are not rigid.

19192

They offer some flexibility, but not as much as the crappy Chinese sold as flexible couplers. These are the ones I mean should be avoided because they generate vibrations and can snap off any time.

19193

On the other hand, these require less installation accuracy, so if you are sloppy, or not good at adjusting and aligning then the lovejoy type isn't the one for you.

JAZZCNC
14-09-2016, 08:31 PM
I have no idea who Dean is,

That would be me but Mike's comment wasn't aimed at you or your comment about Oldham couplers so why you would feel the need to respond like that I've no idea.?

A_Camera
14-09-2016, 10:57 PM
That would be me but Mike's comment wasn't aimed at you or your comment about Oldham couplers so why you would feel the need to respond like that I've no idea.?

Not that easy to figure out who he aimed at, is it? Especially since his post is directly under mine, with no quote... So why you take my answer the way you did, I have no idea.

JAZZCNC
14-09-2016, 11:26 PM
Not that easy to figure out who he aimed at, is it?

Yes it is Mike was talking to Rob the OP who knows me by name. He clearly wasn't directing it at you or questioning your suggestion but merely reminding Rob what had been said to him by me. Which Rob acknowledged two posts later and before you felt the need to reply.! . . Hence why I wondered why you replyed in the manner you did.

grain_r
15-09-2016, 12:33 AM
Good Evening Guys

Thank you very much for the replies. I didn't know about the other type of couplers and so Thank you. Although Because I will go with the Pulleys then it will be changeable on the speeds and torque (Although thats another learning curve for the maths )

Thanks dean Yes your right Its the problem when I get started I buy and then it sits there waiting for me for ages and I would have been better to learn and then buy after so thank you very much for slowing me down. Although where were you when I brought my AC cobra replica :tennis:. still not bad that's only sat there for 7 years i'm sure they get better with age well that's if it worked.

I will got through the Logs and start to learn and do it properly I didn't really know where to start so the thread is great with the suggestions on the items that are best to look towards.

I have just come in from the Garage and still working on the frame although that is looking a bit more than box section now but only just.

I didn't have your details previously dean but if you don't mind me speaking to you at some stage when you have a minute it would be gratefully received.

Thank you all as usual for all the help you give

Thanks

Rob

JAZZCNC
15-09-2016, 12:43 AM
I didn't have your details previously dean but if you don't mind me speaking to you at some stage when you have a minute it would be gratefully received.

Speak to so many people I forget who just seem to think I'd spoke to you some time ago.? But could easily be some other Rob.!!

I'll PM you my number.

grain_r
15-09-2016, 12:47 AM
Hey Dean

Brilliant Thank you that will be great. We've only spoken on the forum so it must have been another Rob.

A_Camera
15-09-2016, 09:53 AM
What "manner"... you mean saying "I don't know who Dean is..." if that is a "manner" for you then you you seem to be awfully oversensitive, especially considering you don't have a signature which includes "Dean" so it is pretty hard to guess.

By the way, if you are asking me about why I am answering to a post which was not addressed to me, then ask yourself the same question. Especially considering that in my case it was OBVIOUS that I was not talking to you but to Mekanik, since I quoted him. So, relax and try keep yourself to relevant facts instead of this. Did I say something which was incorrect then feel free to address that, even if I was not talking to you. I really don't mind... :calm:

JAZZCNC
15-09-2016, 04:15 PM
What "manner"... you mean saying "I don't know who Dean is..." if that is a "manner" for you then you you seem to be awfully oversensitive

The Manner I referred to was you feeling the need to exercise your Ego and reply to post that clearly wasn't aimed at you or questioning you in any way.! . . So who's the sensitive one.?

My reply was aimed directly at you to make clear who Dean was. However like you I don't really give shit so lets leave Rob's Thread to mature.!

A_Camera
16-09-2016, 05:03 PM
The Manner I referred to was you feeling the need to exercise your Ego and reply to post that clearly wasn't aimed at you or questioning you in any way.! . . So who's the sensitive one.?

Could you please enlighten me and others about HOW to check that post #9 is NOT aimed as an answer to post #8? I would like to learn something, which seems to be a secret knowledge only YOU (apart possibly from the site admin) have. If you could help me out on this I would be so grateful and would not make such a horrible mistake next time.


My reply was aimed directly at you to make clear who Dean was. However like you I don't really give shit so lets leave Rob's Thread to mature.!

Yes, your reply was aimed at me, that was pretty clear to me, just like my reply to to Mike (post#13 )was pretty clearly aimed at Mike and NOT you, yet you keep debating about it and demonstrate how hurt you were because of the "I have no idea who Dean is" comment. So it seems like you want to apply your own rules, which is pretty amusing.

Other than that, for your information, this is a public forum, so if you want private conversations with your friends do it in private. It is perfectly fine, and as far as I know, not against the rules to comment ANY post on a public forum, EVEN if a post would clearly not being aimed at a person commenting. On the other hand, normally there is a rule about staying on topic and not hijacking threads, which you actually don't really follow, since you got derailed pretty fast and NOT posted one single remark about the topic discussed by me in that message to Mike. The topic there was NOT "I have no idea who Dean is" but the couplers, advantages/disadvantages and resonance.

Have a nice weekend. :biggrin:

mekanik
16-09-2016, 06:24 PM
Hi Guys
didn't mean to cause such an uproar.
As Dean said i was just replying to the OP as it seemed he was about to order the inline couplings.

Regards
Mike

JAZZCNC
16-09-2016, 09:47 PM
Could you please enlighten me and others about HOW to check that post #9 is NOT aimed as an answer to post #8?

Can't but I wasn't wrong was I.!!! . . . . Now GFYSYAP.:encouragement: