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View Full Version : Hobby milling machines now in stock - Perfect for conversions



komatias
27-09-2016, 10:58 AM
Hi all,

our business has been steadily growing and we have been branching out into new fields. Besides the extremely popular and rare BCN3D Sigma 3D printers (https://emvioeng.com/shop/3d-printing/3d-printers/bcn3d-sigma/) (voted best printer of 2016 by All3dp.com) we are starting up in light machine tools. We presented our range at the Bristol Model Engineering Societies exhibition this year with good interest and very positive feedback. Here is a write up of the whole exhibition (http://journeymans-workshop.uk/news/2016/08/bristol-mex-2016/)

So without waffling on too much I present to you the EMV-25VBB (working on the name): https://emvioeng.com/shop/machine-tools/manual-machines/emv-25vbb-milling-machine/

https://emvioeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Emv_25Vbb_1.jpg






We have stock of all the bits you will need to get you started and yes I am working on a conversion kit and will be looking to expand into cutting tools at some point. In the mean time we are doing a bundle to get you started,
(https://emvioeng.com/shop/machine-tools/hobby-milling-machine-bundle/) With this bundle you will be well on your way to getting a very capable machine ready for making your own CNC conversion parts.

Bundle includes:


Machine
Stand and drip tray
ER25 collet set
ER25 safety wrench
5 off ER25 TTS style tool holder
R8 3/4" collet.


Videos of the machine running to following very shortly along with the new larger CNC machine that I am hoping to tune a release before the end of the year.

Should you have any questions or comments do drop me a line.

Regards

George

John S
27-09-2016, 11:24 AM
George,

Do these machines have a valid and traceable genuine CE certification ?

Not China Export ��

Boyan Silyavski
27-09-2016, 11:36 AM
Well good luck to you! I am sure it comes after a lot of work and thought. That looks like the ideal candidate for DIY CNC

DavidB
27-09-2016, 12:07 PM
Aren't the BCN3D Sigma 3D Printer's manufactured by Students in Barcelona?

Robin Hewitt
28-09-2016, 10:05 AM
That is pretty, please can we have a side view?

komatias
28-09-2016, 03:39 PM
Hi all,

John: Yes, I have received a copy of a CE certificate of conformity. However I have my own inspection process based on the required ISO/EN standards like 12100:2010, EN 13128:2001+A2:2009 and EN 60204-1:2006. This means as an engineer, with the assurance that the technical file being held by the manufacturer and 100% inspection in the EU I am able to issue my COC.

Boyan: Thanks!

DavidB: yes they are a BCN university spin off. Very popular in the 3D printing community.

Robin: here you go

https://emvioeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Emv_25Vbb_3-Large.jpg

DavidB
04-10-2016, 07:05 PM
Thanks for your reply George,

Working in Barcelona now for 6 years I know that BCN Technologies was previously RepRapBCN .. underneath Fundacio CIM.. ( the University Polytechnica Catalunya UPC.. ) and they have been "letting" students to make and sell RepRap MendelMax copies using their SLS machines for 3 years... they sold a copy of RichRaps Delta as well..

Now they use paying students to manufacture their products and call it "work experience"..

They say they are "helping" local companies but they continue to kill them by supplying university designed and produced products. Do you also sell their DLP and LAser machines?

Fundacio CIM even quote against real companies to supply FabLabs with their "student made" machines ....at a much cheaper price because they cannot make a profit...
https://www.fundaciocim.org/en

Just so you know... :)

komatias
04-10-2016, 07:25 PM
Yeah I know how they operate. Their Sigma printer is best in class and that is my best selling one. The DLP has not really taken off because of cost, I sell it but do not stock it. Same with the kits.

We had a client buy the laser but upon unboxing we saw it was not a ready product (being kind here) and had to send it back. Replaced it with a better one for less money. I have since dropped the laser from my range to be replaced with others shortly.

Neale
04-10-2016, 10:44 PM
George - I remember having a look at the Sigma printer (I think it was) at the Bristol show. I always wander round looking for ideas for my own builds! This was the first printer I have seen in the flesh with profile rails for guides, which must put the price up a bit. I was demonstrating my old Prusa printer on my club stand. It's a grotty old machine that is showing its age (and it wasn't that great to start with) but it has the benefit for demos that you can see all the working bits. The mark 2 will be a compilation of the best bits of all the machines I can find, and might even now use profile rails...

I'm a great believer in that old motto of the academic - pinch one person's idea and it's plagiarism. Pinch lots of peoples' ideas and it's research :smile:

komatias
05-10-2016, 12:21 AM
I'm a great believer in that old motto of the academic - pinch one person's idea and it's plagiarism. Pinch lots of peoples' ideas and it's research :smile:

Yeah they all do that :D

Neale, I think I remember you. You were in the second hall with the spark eroder on display? Have you seen the new Prusa addon with the 4 colours?



The linear rail was the reason I jumped at this machine as soon as I saw it. Now they are pretty common on the high end machines and it is about time too.
Thing with 3D printers, not many people in the building side of them have any schooling in straight flat and parallel. There is for example the assumption that linear rails are the above...

Anyway, the Sigma is the only machine that has not gone up in price over the past few months. We are trying very to keep it at the price it is. If you looked at an Ultimaker recently you will have noted the 2k+ price tag it has now....

DavidB
05-10-2016, 08:05 AM
I agree with Komitas.. Have you seen the new Prusa addon with the 4 colours?
I don't want to hijack the thread but if you are looking for the best, cheapest and open source developed 3D printer with money going to real people.. get an original Prusa..
Review here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfe_84FGJ8c
Buy here http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/17-3d-printers
And I'm not biased or affiliated with Prusa Research.. but I do make all our machines without linear rails :)

komatias
05-10-2016, 10:06 AM
I agree with Komitas.. Have you seen the new Prusa addon with the 4 colours?
I don't want to hijack the thread but if you are looking for the best, cheapest and open source developed 3D printer with money going to real people.. get an original Prusa..
Review here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfe_84FGJ8c
Buy here http://shop.prusa3d.com/en/17-3d-printers
And I'm not biased or affiliated with Prusa Research.. but I do make all our machines without linear rails :)

Horses for courses. If you want to play, make a Prusa, if you are serious, get a Sigma :shame:

Neale
05-10-2016, 10:20 AM
Yes, that was me - casual visitors looked at the 3D printer, and anyone with a model engineering background had a chat about the spark eroder. A group of club members are currently working on a wire EDM machine on a similar small scale.

I built the Prusa which gave me a taste for CNC so I built a quick-and-dirty CNC router (JGRO design, all MDF). Had a lot of fun with that and did some useful work as well but it taught me enough that the mk2, currently about 90% complete, needed a lot more attention to some critical areas (while trying not to overbuild). When I get round to mk2 printer I shall take a similar approach, although the technology has moved on a lot.

Coming back, vaguely, to the original topic, I built a small vertical mill from a part-machined kit many years ago, and it's still in use. However, it now sits alongside a Chinese vertical mill which, in real terms, probably cost rather less than the original kit for significantly more capacity. The kind of machine shown in this thread represents how much easier it is now to get decent machining capacity at home than it used to be, even for a build-it-if-you-can dinosaur like me.

komatias
05-10-2016, 02:45 PM
Neale,

since you saw my machines at the BSMEE, could you share your honest thoughts :D

Neale
05-10-2016, 04:42 PM
since you saw my machines at the BSMEE, could you share your honest thoughts :D

Happy to do so, but my memory has more holes than a vacuum table...

When I saw Emvio at the show, it rang a bell but I didn't associate it with anything that I'd seen on this forum or I would have said hello. I do remember that the stand always seemed fairly busy - don't know how that translates into real business, but you seemed popular!

The couple of things that I do remember were the quality of the prints produced, and the quality of the machine build. Now, I'm coming from a pretty low level when it comes to print quality on my own machine, but I would be very happy with the quality of output of your printers. My reaction to looking at construction and quality of build was that it went rather further than I would have expected in a 3D printer, especially bearing in mind that fused-filament is probably the least good of all the 3D print technologies, but it was a bit further up the curve of diminishing returns than I might have expected. However, I am a bit out of touch with the current crop of commercially-produced machines so bear that in mind when you read this.

One of my own background projects is to build a spark eroder. I have already built the basic structure using some prints from my 3D printer and it's waiting for me to build the electronics now. One specific project is to use it to make extruder nozzles, to get finer holes than I can drill, and it would allow me to make them from stainless as well. Ready-made extruders? Bah, humbug!

DavidB
06-10-2016, 12:55 PM
That's just it.. the Prusa now prints as well if not better than the Sigma... full auto axis leveling.. and is half the price fully assembled.

Boyan Silyavski
06-10-2016, 01:10 PM
That's just it.. the Prusa now prints as well if not better than the Sigma... full auto axis leveling.. and is half the price fully assembled.

Well excuse me David, but insisting that a machine without linear rails is anything but toy is ridiculous to me.

Lee Roberts
06-10-2016, 08:26 PM
Well excuse me David, but insisting that a machine without linear rails is anything but toy is ridiculous to me.

lol, yes but you have ridiculous OCD no ??? :joker:


Review here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfe_84FGJ8c

Thanks for sharing that link David, great review.

Guys if there is anything I can do to help support the development of the 3DP scene here on the forums please let me know.

Expanding the 3DP section is something I hoped for as interest grows amongst us, obviously I can't do everything on my own i.e staying up to date on the latest, posting about it and also nurturing that area of interest locally.

Boyan Silyavski
06-10-2016, 10:13 PM
lol, yes but you have ridiculous OCD no ??? :joker:

Maybe. But in this case I just couldn't resist to say that.

Sb presents his business, machine etc. and sb else starts speaking how there is a better one at half the price that is in totally different category ... So i just felt the need to remind comparing square supported linear rails with diy linear movement is not in the same category.

I could give examples and review some similar machines cause i have friends that are not happy with what they have got for their money. Once they woke up what have they bought for their money exactly. But that's another story.

Also not that i care about 3d printing and companies, but i don't see why if somebody open sourced his plans has to be blamed for unfair quotes and undermining small manufacturers. They have different and understandable / to me/ priorities :


"As an institute belonging to a public university, also makes it a priority to bring manufacturing to society, helping to break the barrier between people and digital technology related to manufacturing, welcoming them under the view of generating jobs with added value.



So if somebody has to say sth for his offering, lets say it, but speaking about 3d printing in general, discussing other brands here and useless conversations - we could do that somewhere else. People should learn to respect other people's effort.

Neale
06-10-2016, 10:40 PM
Linear bearings are fine, in the right application and if properly specified. My vertical mill uses cast-iron slides. My current router uses profile rails. My 3D printer uses linear bearings. The issue with the printer is not that it uses linear bearings, but that they use 8mm unsupported rods in a frame that does not provide adequate, stiff, support. Given the overall system accuracy needed for 3D printing, and the relatively low loads on the guide rails, I don't see a problem in principle; it's just that my current machine is too flimsy. In a commercial machine where you can machine mating surfaces, it might be quicker and easier to use profile rails. In a home-built machine where you build in adjustment and have the time to set up accurately, there might be a better way. Look at the system design and don't get hung up on point details. I shall be thinking about the overall frame design for my mk2 printer and choose an appropriate guide system in the context of that design.

komatias
07-10-2016, 12:38 AM
Oh dear...my thread has brought the handbags out....

Right, what I meant when I asked Neale to comment on my machines, I meant my milling machines. (if i had meant the Sigma, I would have specified..."..your thoughts on the Sigma")

Lets be clear. There are hobby machines and then there are prosumer machines in the 3D world. The Sigma is squarely in the prosumer range. What you get with it is, an open source platform, a dealer network, my company's support etc etc. This means that should your printer have issues there is someone you can pick up the phone and chat to about it.

Open source unfortunately many times also means that your only tech support is through a users forum. That is fine for a low cost machine but if you are a pro, like some of my customers, you need the services a pro machine comes with as standard.

Lee, thanks for the support. I will try and help as much as time allows with the 3DP community on the site.

Neale
07-10-2016, 02:30 PM
Sorry, George - I misunderstood, and then started a classic forum debate where everyone is arguing about something slightly different!

I'm afraid that I didn't look at the milling machine at Bristol, and I don't remember even seeing it. My reaction to the pictures above is that it looks like a nice little machine, and does not have one of my pet hates, a round column with loss of registration as soon as you raise/lower the head. I lived with a machine like that for years; its replacement has a proper knee on dovetail slides. For a bench-top machine, dovetail slides on the column are fine.

I guess that this is going up against the Sieg and similar machines and I can't really make any intelligent comments without a good look in the flesh. Looks like something that I might consider if I were in the market for this size machine.

John S
07-10-2016, 09:34 PM
So the Sigma machine.
What deal can you do over what Cutwel are offering ?

komatias
08-10-2016, 01:09 AM
I am nowhere near as big as Cutwel so my offering would be very limited. The prices we are keeping at the moment are based on the better Euro/GBP rate as established in April. With the current rates both me and Cutwel have a very slim margin, mine being the much slimmer. We are expecting the next batch to arrive this coming week and have already presold a thrid of the order, so to be honest there is not much need for me to discount in order to win business.

That said, I can offer a discount, if payment is by BACS or cash, to forum members as a means of giving back to the community. Those interested, please PM me for details.

If there are more people that are interested in purchasing a Sigma, I may be able to put in a larger order meaning I can potentially pass on a better discount.

Regards

camhguh
28-10-2016, 11:36 PM
Hi

is the CNC conversion kit available now?

Hugh

komatias
30-10-2016, 09:11 PM
Hi Hugh

I am working on it. The plan is to release the mechanics by Christmas. I am also working with Aaron Powter from Australia to make his kit available for those with the Warco/Amadeal machines of similar size.

Regards

Lee Roberts
31-10-2016, 10:35 AM
Ballscrew CNC Conversion Kits - Free Fusion360 Files:

https://youtu.be/Wx8238bGSCY

"Fusion360 files are free to subscriber's so they can convert their own mill and must not be shared, sold or used for private / commercial fiscal gain."

komatias
31-10-2016, 10:59 AM
Lee,

That is the Aaron I am working with. His conversion requires machining on the castings that I am trying my hardest to avoid. Also, the machines Titan sell have a slightly different bed to mine.

Fingerpuk
22-11-2016, 11:12 PM
So going back to the original point of the thread :-) do you have any videos of the mill running? And do you offer/will you offer 4th axis?

komatias
23-11-2016, 01:19 AM
So going back to the original point of the thread :-) do you have any videos of the mill running? And do you offer/will you offer 4th axis?

Ah videos....I wish I did have some for you from my own machines but not just yet...Only recently purchased the equipment to record in the quality they deserve so it is on the todo list. But I can offer you Aaron Powters youtube video of the exact same machines previous revision:


https://youtu.be/QkIO3TwzKms

The difference between the Titan and my machines is only the bed casting.

Now in terms of CNC kits, there is a plan and I am working on it. The idea is to offer it as a 3 axes to begin with, because there are options already to add an already motorised rotary table. The real trick however is to allow you to do the CNC conversion without the need for you to machine the castings and that is where I am putting a lot of emphasis.

If you are anywhere near Bristol or can travel down, I would gladly show you the machine in person. With the CNC conversion I would recommend you also look at my quick change tooling.

Drop me a line if you have any further questions.

Robin Hewitt
23-11-2016, 11:23 AM
do you offer/will you offer 4th axis?

Doesn't that leave you one short :apathy:.

I am not exactly sure, having never contemplated the dizzier heights of CNC, but I think full positional control requires 3 linears and 2 rotationals?

I just discovered we have a fat smiley :fat: :fat: :fat: Perfect for those of us kounting the kilocalories

komatias
23-11-2016, 11:55 AM
Robin, you being sarcastic there, thought you had been around long enough to be well versed in the CNC world?

There is nothing stopping anyone adding a small trunion table at a later date to get 5 or even 6 axis. It just comes down to cost. The difficult bit is to do the ballscrew conversion neatly without milling the castings. After that its just bolt on bits really. With a decent controller, you can go up to 6 axes and then its just a matter of more motor drivers etc etc etc.

There is also very little cheap software that will output 5 axis gcode which puts a damper on many peoples aspirations.

Just as an aside, I am also making some fixture plate kits for these chappies to assist in part positioning and helping flip parts over easily.

Robin Hewitt
23-11-2016, 12:17 PM
When I started with computers you bought your parts from Practical Electronics or Wireless World by sending them a cheque in the post :ambivalence:

I am now on my last decrepit knockings and you bright young things should be leaving me way behind :playful:

Clive S
23-11-2016, 12:46 PM
When I started with computers you bought your parts from Practical Electronics or Wireless World by sending them a cheque in the post I also bet that you built a Heath Kit valve scope and a Sinclair micro six radio

Robin Hewitt
24-11-2016, 12:17 AM
I also bet that you built a Heath Kit valve scope and a Sinclair micro six radio

At least someone knows what Practical Electronics and Wireless World were. Most excellent :chuncky:

Clive S
24-11-2016, 12:39 AM
At least someone knows what Practical Electronics and Wireless World were. Most excellent :chuncky:I forgot the VVM as well from Heath Kit. All good stuff.:yahoo:

komatias
05-12-2016, 01:26 PM
Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know that the design of the mechanical elements of the CNC conversion is coming along very nicely.

I have 3D printed some of the bits to test fit and form and am very pleased.

Delivery of the kits should start Jan/Feb next year too.

In the mean time I have 3 machines left in stock that would love a new home for Christmas. At the current price they are already competitive against the other UK sellers but I am happy to accept BACS payment and discount the payment portal fees! :toot::yahoo:

biketrialsdave
16-12-2016, 08:46 AM
How does the tool change work on this, is there a draw bar? Looks quite reasonable for the money! I wonder what speed the bearings would hold up to if you replaced the motor for something larger.

komatias
16-12-2016, 10:14 AM
How does the tool change work on this, is there a draw bar? Looks quite reasonable for the money! I wonder what speed the bearings would hold up to if you replaced the motor for something larger.

Hi Dave,

The tool change is the same any other R8 spindled machine. The head of the drawbar is beneath the round bobble on the head.

You can use any R8 tooling you can find on the market, as the thread is standard (7/16"), or you can use the quick change tooling I do.

The bearings can hold up to way more RPM than the spindle is currently set up to do.

I am looking at increasing the motor to be a brushless 2.2KW 6000rpm type, as well as of course a high quality CNC conversion kit

Regards

biketrialsdave
16-09-2017, 05:47 PM
Any more progress on the CNC conversion for this? Also, does the motor have the torque to use a face mill? I wish it had a powered draw bar too!

komatias
18-09-2017, 12:10 PM
Hi all

Photos of the progress on the CNC kit can be found on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/EmvioEng/posts/1863800310602871

Need 10 people to offer to pay a deposit to make the hardware viable.

The original plan was to use clearpath servos however this may make the kit slightly too expensive for most.

Drop me a line if you are interested.

komatias
01-10-2017, 10:38 PM
Now also taking preorders on our website:

https://emvioeng.com/shop/emvio-engineering-products/emv-25vbb-cnc-conversion-kit-deposit-only/