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jackpat
15-11-2016, 10:12 PM
Hi all,

i have a vf0e vmc, which as from thismorning will not power up! after speaking with the haas tech, we are 90% sure the main processor board has popped. HAAS has quoted us about 7k for the new board and a days labour... which honestly we cant afford + thats how much the machines worth.

Anyone had any exp with these boards and know if they can be repaired? today i removed it (keeping the battery connected) and took it to our local repair guy, he says theres nothing obviously wrong but he cannot test the chips on the card.

Thanks in advance for any input, im a one man shop and desperate to get this machine sorted.

best regards

jack

compositepro
15-11-2016, 10:31 PM
Have you checked the power supply?

jackpat
15-11-2016, 10:34 PM
Have you checked the power supply?
thanks for quick reply! yeah the haas tech said it could be low volt supply, but the 3 led's showing the voltages are all lit.

cheers

compositepro
15-11-2016, 10:37 PM
there was a thread over on PM about this exact same thing from memory I will try to find the thing it might help you out 7K ive just been through this same quandry and bought a brand new machine

magicniner
15-11-2016, 10:44 PM
If there's no visible component damage even when viewed with high magnification you're dependent on someone with test equipment and the test data for the board.
Are you sure the PSU/s is/are delivering all the correct voltages? (checked with a meter)

jackpat
15-11-2016, 10:45 PM
there was a thread over on PM about this exact same thing from memory I will try to find the thing it might help you out 7K ive just been through this same quandry and bought a brand new machine
Thanks a lot, at the moment im HOPING to get the card repaired and get the service tech in to reinstall parameters etc. failing that, find a used card, failing that try and find a donor machine! Spending 7k right now really isnt viable.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

jackpat
15-11-2016, 10:47 PM
If there's no visible component damage even when viewed with high magnification you're dependent on someone with test equipment and the test data for the board.
Are you sure the PSU/s is/are delivering all the correct voltages?
all im going off on the voltage front is that the led's are lit up. the only thing i have put a multi meter across is the buffer battery!


Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

jackpat
16-11-2016, 07:29 PM
If there's no visible component damage even when viewed with high magnification you're dependent on someone with test equipment and the test data for the board.
Are you sure the PSU/s is/are delivering all the correct voltages? (checked with a meter) Ok, so i checked the voltages today... on 5v we are getting about 1.5, and on 12v we are getting about 3.5! a tech suggested i get an atx power supply to try, so ive just been and got one from maplins. Is there anything i need to make sure i do/ dont do so i dont toast anything else?

JAZZCNC
16-11-2016, 07:42 PM
Ok, so i checked the voltages today... on 5v we are getting about 1.5, and on 12v we are getting about 3.5! a tech suggested i get an atx power supply to try, so ive just been and got one from maplins. Is there anything i need to make sure i do/ dont do so i dont toast anything else?

Only real thing you need to be sure of is don't get polarity wrong. However suggest you test the voltages from ATX supply before connecting.

Also strongly suggest if your Not sure what doing then you don't mess and get help before releasing some very expensive Magic smoke.!!

jackpat
16-11-2016, 08:05 PM
Only real thing you need to be sure of is don't get polarity wrong. However suggest you test the voltages from ATX supply before connecting.

Also strongly suggest if your Not sure what doing then you don't mess and get help before releasing some very expensive Magic smoke.!!Thanks mate, i've got an electrician friend coming round shortly to have a look. The new atx is 350 watt and the old is 200w, will this be okay? My tech said the ones they supply are 500's

JAZZCNC
16-11-2016, 08:19 PM
Thanks mate, i've got an electrician friend coming round shortly to have a look. The new atx is 350 watt and the old is 200w, will this be okay? My tech said the ones they supply are 500's

Would imagine 500W is allowing for decent amount of spare overhead. 200W does sound low and probably why it's gone tits up, It's Been working flat out to keep up.
So 350W should be ok and will certainly get you working again if that is indeed the problem.

magicniner
17-11-2016, 01:04 AM
Ok, so i checked the voltages today... on 5v we are getting about 1.5, and on 12v we are getting about 3.5! a tech suggested i get an atx power supply to try, so ive just been and got one from maplins. Is there anything i need to make sure i do/ dont do so i dont toast anything else?

So the company technician who diagnosed a 7k board fault needs a little more training perhaps?
;-)
I hope a PSU gets this running for you!
Regards,
- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
17-11-2016, 03:18 AM
I advise you not to play with the main board, the way you are playing with 100$ breakout board. This taking it out and bringing to a guy... If you dont know what are you doing better dont touch it. I know people that have f%%%d things just by touching them not in the proper way. if you dont know how to handle sensitive equipment especially true. I have sold 1000$ board perfectly working here, luckily confirmed with video, which guys f^^^d up on the other side by not knowing how to handle it.

So i am starting to have a headache from what you say. At least make sure yo have discharged static from yourself and transport it in a anti static envelope / any pc repair shop will have that from GPU or similar . One other thing particularly disastrous for boards is to try to measure them while connected and touch sth that you should have not touched and especially disconnect sth when board is powered on.

You need electronic engineer or similar, not electrician! :stupid: Apart from that you have to explain him exactly how the board is supposed to function so he understands where the problem could be.

You have to be very lucky if its only the PSU after yo handled it. I dont see how you will repair the board if it has ICs that are custom programmed in factory.

On other side everything can be repaired, luckily this machine is quite old, maybe repair will not be more than cheap element so just start finding an industrial repair solution for this board!

The most important thing is to analyse with cool head if that board has just simple elements or it has an element that could be preprogrammed with software. My local guy for example have repaired me a VFDs for which i was quoted into the hundreds just to look at it and here it cost me 15 euro.


https://en.industryarena.com/forum/circuit-board-repair--210268.html

http://www.acsindustrial.com/mfrs/haas.php

http://www.industrialrepair.net/products.aspx?mpid=156

jackpat
17-11-2016, 10:28 AM
I advise you not to play with the main board, the way you are playing with 100$ breakout board. This taking it out and bringing to a guy... If you dont know what are you doing better dont touch it. I know people that have f%%%d things just by touching them not in the proper way. if you dont know how to handle sensitive equipment especially true. I have sold 1000$ board perfectly working here, luckily confirmed with video, which guys f^^^d up on the other side by not knowing how to handle it.

So i am starting to have a headache from what you say. At least make sure yo have discharged static from yourself and transport it in a anti static envelope / any pc repair shop will have that from GPU or similar . One other thing particularly disastrous for boards is to try to measure them while connected and touch sth that you should have not touched and especially disconnect sth when board is powered on.

You need electronic engineer or similar, not electrician! :stupid: Apart from that you have to explain him exactly how the board is supposed to function so he understands where the problem could be.

You have to be very lucky if its only the PSU after yo handled it. I dont see how you will repair the board if it has ICs that are custom programmed in factory.

On other side everything can be repaired, luckily this machine is quite old, maybe repair will not be more than cheap element so just start finding an industrial repair solution for this board!

The most important thing is to analyse with cool head if that board has just simple elements or it has an element that could be preprogrammed with software. My local guy for example have repaired me a VFDs for which i was quoted into the hundreds just to look at it and here it cost me 15 euro.


https://en.industryarena.com/forum/circuit-board-repair--210268.html

http://www.acsindustrial.com/mfrs/haas.php

http://www.industrialrepair.net/products.aspx?mpid=156 Thanks for such a detailed reply, i'll admit i have no experience with processor boards... the company i took it to however is a very experienced repair shop - they deal with this sort of thing all the time and have repaired servo drive cards, I/O boards and distribution boards for us before. As for the processor board - - i guess we'll find out if i've damaged it once we fix the low voltage problem!

My "electrician" is an electrical engineer, also dealing with similar machines all the time - - he's a good friend of ours and lives just across the road from the workshop.

SO.. Last night we double checked that it was the actual psu that was dropping voltage, THEN started joining the HAAS wiring harness to the new atx psu... plugged it in to check we were getting 5v and it wouldn't work! It's just a bog standard 240V atx (machines is a 110v, but its all we could get from maplin). We didnt check the atx before hand, but all we had done was snip wires on a single plug and crimp connectors on. Plugged it into a wall socket not into actual machine.

So i guess ill try find a replacement today.

magicniner
17-11-2016, 10:36 AM
The most important thing is to

.......Approach the problem logically, if there are no blown components or tracks on the board and you have proven the PSU is not delivering the correct voltages then replacing the PSU is an entirely logical next step.

An ATX PSU doesn't just deliver all the correct voltages all the time though, it has some permanent outputs but requires a logic signal back from the board to which it connects to tell it to power up fully. If the new PSU doesn't "Fire up the Quattro" then you should check to see if the board is providing the required signal telling it to turn on,
Regards,
Nick

jackpat
17-11-2016, 10:42 AM
.......Approach the problem logically, if there are no blown components or tracks on the board and you have proven the PSU is not delivering the correct voltages then replacing the PSU is an entirely logical next step.

An ATX PSU doesn't just deliver all the correct voltages all the time though, it has some permanent outputs but requires a logic signal back from the board to which it connects to tell it to power up fully. If the new PSU doesn't "Fire up the Quattro" then you should check to see if the board is providing the required signal telling it to turn on,
Regards,
Nick Right, so the atx needs to be plugged in to the machine to power up? We were getting power down the 240v cable and to the on/ off switch but no voltage out of the cables & the fan wasnt coming on. ++ if thats the case how do i make sure we've wired up the cable correctly!

Clive S
17-11-2016, 10:50 AM
Right, so the atx needs to be plugged in to the machine to power up? We were getting power down the 240v cable and to the on/ off switch but no voltage out of the cables & the fan wasnt coming on. ++ if thats the case how do i make sure we've wired up the cable correctly!
See this http://support.antec.com/support/solutions/articles/1000015319-is-my-power-supply-dead-the-paperclip-test.

An Atx supply won't turn on without you shorting the signal wire to ground.

magicniner
17-11-2016, 10:53 AM
You need electronic engineer or similar, not electrician! :stupid:

What you actually need is someone with the right experience, current job titles may not be clearly indicative of this :-)

- Nick

jackpat
17-11-2016, 11:12 AM
What you actually need is someone with the right experience, current job titles may not be clearly indicative of this :-)

- NickAs stated, he is an electrical engineer, not an electrician... excuse my phrasing. Shorted the two pins and i have power to the fan, so will i be able to check if im getting +5 +12 and -12 with the short before i plug the psu back into the machine?

Ta,

magicniner
17-11-2016, 11:48 AM
Shorted the two pins and i have power to the fan, so will i be able to check if im getting +5 +12 and -12 with the short before i plug the psu back into the machine?

Ta,

Yes,_check_the_PSU_output_with_the_pins_shorted_th en_remove_shorting_pin,_disconnect_mains_and_conne ct._Then_test.

Damn this reply box behaviour, now it's recognising spaces but if I insert them higher up the reply it parses them as line feeds and initially ignored them entirely!

- Nick

Clive S
17-11-2016, 12:03 PM
Damn this reply box behaviour, now it's recognising spaces but if I insert them higher up the reply it parses them as line feeds and initially ignored them entirely!

- NickNick it has happened to me with Chrome I have already sent Lee a PM to let him know that it has reoccurred

jackpat
17-11-2016, 12:49 PM
Yes,_check_the_PSU_output_with_the_pins_shorted_th en_remove_shorting_pin,_disconnect_mains_and_conne ct._Then_test.

Damn this reply box behaviour, now it's recognising spaces but if I insert them higher up the reply it parses them as line feeds and initially ignored them entirely!

- Nick All wired up, voltages are good BUT we dont have a white wire (-5v) on the new psu, which we did have on the old one??

magicniner
17-11-2016, 02:18 PM
If your PSU doesn't have all the right voltages it isn't the right PSU for the job, you could add a separate -5v fairly easily, but have you asked the manufacturer how much for the correct PSU for the job?

Clive S
17-11-2016, 02:22 PM
All wired up, voltages are good BUT we dont have a white wire (-5v) on the new psu, which we did have on the old one??I think you need one of the older type ie AT not ATX http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AT-PSU-WORKING-HIPRO-HP-200PPGN-200W-POWER-SUPPLY-WITH-SWITCH-UK-SELLER-S-/142163387623

see this at the bottom of the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_(computer)

jackpat
17-11-2016, 04:49 PM
I think you need one of the older type ie AT not ATX http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AT-PSU-WORKING-HIPRO-HP-200PPGN-200W-POWER-SUPPLY-WITH-SWITCH-UK-SELLER-S-/142163387623

see this at the bottom of the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_(computer)I've pulled a power supply out of an old computer we have lying around, and ive managed to get it wired in. Now when i turn the m/c on the screen is coming up all stripey with a bunch of random symbols/ letters on it. Video card maybe??

m_c
17-11-2016, 05:14 PM
Either the video card, or the video card is getting junk data.
You're probably better speaking to your board repairers, as now you know what the main problem was, and the machine is now doing something, it may help them track down what has been damaged.

jackpat
17-11-2016, 05:28 PM
Either the video card, or the video card is getting junk data.
You're probably better speaking to your board repairers, as now you know what the main problem was, and the machine is now doing something, it may help them track down what has been damaged. Just spoken with haas, they thought the processor might have dropped it's guts :( it was only out of the m/c for about of a day and we kept the battery attached though?

Clive S
17-11-2016, 05:43 PM
I've pulled a power supply out of an old computer we have lying around, and ive managed to get it wired in. Now when i turn the m/c on the screen is coming up all stripey with a bunch of random symbols/ letters on it. Video card maybe??I don't know the machine at all but if and only if it has a dumb monitor ie RS-232 it could be board rate set wrong with showing random symbols. If its a VGA type I take it you have unplugged the monitor and card and refitted.

jackpat
17-11-2016, 05:59 PM
I don't know the machine at all but if and only if it has a dumb monitor ie RS-232 it could be board rate set wrong with showing random symbols. If its a VGA type I take it you have unplugged the monitor and card and refitted.Yep i've unplugged & refitted. Any thing else i can check??

m_c
17-11-2016, 06:48 PM
Have you tried asking over on Practical Machinist forum?
If you're going find somebody online who knows about these machines, then that's the place you're likely to find them.