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Fivetide
19-11-2016, 06:10 PM
So, I have a project that Iím doing with my uncle but itís not cncís / lathes or 3Dpís related and just some fun hopefully.
I think I know what Iím doing but could do with a eye casting over my idea. Also, Iím crap at electric needs and usage.
I have 3 Nema 17ís 45ís from a small project that never got started ages ago.
So basically, I need all 3 to rotate in the same direction at the same RPM. Donít need bidirectional but need to keep the RPM under 110'ish (variable). No precision needed, torques not a huge factor, but it could be running several hours at a time.
I was thinking of a just a motor speed controller that can supply the voltage and amps with a suitable pot. Thatís where Iím struggling to work out what I need or if indeed it will work.
Any thoughts? :adoration:

Manufacturer Part Number 17HS16-2004S1
Step Angle 1.8į
Step Accuracy 5%
Holding Torque 45Ncm(63.7oz.in)
Rated Current/phase 2A
Phase Resistance 1.1ohms
Voltage 2.2V
Inductance 2.6mHĪ20%(1KHz)
Weight 300g

Lee Roberts
19-11-2016, 06:36 PM
Dunno if this unit Jonathan is working on maybe of use: Build Log: Servo Drive and VFD with vector control (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7576-Build-Log-Servo-Drive-and-VFD-with-vector-control)

I'm sure I read a discussion where he was able to put custom firmware on it for someone, could be wrong.

cropwell
19-11-2016, 07:10 PM
Would 3 of these be the sort of thing you are looking for ? You might only need 1 if the motors are all at the same speed.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stepper-motor-driver-controller-Speed-Regulator-Pulse-Signal-Generator-module-/252475644118?hash=item3ac8b898d6:g:niYAAOSwIgNXlrJ f

You would still need some cheap drivers and a power supply though.

Rob

Fivetide
20-11-2016, 03:54 AM
Would 3 of these be the sort of thing you are looking for ? You might only need 1 if the motors are all at the same speed.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stepper-motor-driver-controller-Speed-Regulator-Pulse-Signal-Generator-module-/252475644118?hash=item3ac8b898d6:g:niYAAOSwIgNXlrJ f

You would still need some cheap drivers and a power supply though.

Rob

Yeah Rob that's what I was thinking, but I don't know if I can run all three off a single 3A supply or I'll need separate ones per motor. I'll post results as soon as I have a test ready.
I mean what could possible go wrong ?? lol :)

m_c
20-11-2016, 11:40 AM
It'll depend on how well matched the motors are, and how much load each one is under.
If they're all identical motors with similar load (and/or a good safety margin), then it shouldn't be a problem. All you can do is try it, as the worst that's likely to happen is motors stall, or one heats up.

Neale
20-11-2016, 12:02 PM
Is your question about whether a single 3A supply would be enough? If you are not looking for much torque from the motors, then most drivers will have a "max motor current" setting which you could wind down to, say, 1A. I'm assuming single power supply/multiple drivers here, of course. Problem is greater if you are using a switch-mode power supply as these often have a "hard" current limit at their max rating so can effectively switch off just when you need most current at peak load. Old-fashioned linear power supplies are much more forgiving of peak loads. Or wind down max motor current a bit more, or use a bigger or multiple power supplies.

m_c
20-11-2016, 12:06 PM
Neale, my understanding is fivetide wants the 3 motors to run from a single driver..

Fivetide
20-11-2016, 02:11 PM
Neale, my understanding is fivetide wants the 3 motors to run from a single driver..

That's true .. I would like to manually vary the speed of all three motors simultaneously. Toque maybe a factor in the future
There are 40A versions of the Motor controllers for not much money. My understanding of power supply is limited, if I attach 3 motors that draw 2A's each onto a 40A supply will the motors only draw 2A's of the 40 or will the power supply push 13A's to each motor.. ?

Clive S
20-11-2016, 02:31 PM
That's true .. I would like to manually vary the speed of all three motors simultaneously. Toque maybe a factor in the future
There are 40A versions of the Motor controllers for not much money. My understanding of power supply is limited, if I attach 3 motors that draw 2A's each onto a 40A supply will the motors only draw 2A's of the 40 or will the power supply push 13A's to each motor.. ?The motors will only take what they want so IF the motor need to draw 2A each then it would be 6A total but I very much doubt they they will draw 2A each as you have said they will be operated at very low torque

Fivetide
20-11-2016, 02:41 PM
The motors will only take what they want so IF the motor need to draw 2A each then it would be 6A total but I very much doubt they they will draw 2A each as you have said they will be operated at very low torque

Thats what I needed to know ..thanks Clive :)

Fivetide
21-11-2016, 05:03 PM
I have the 3A with reverse switch but I order one of these below at 10A to test. I would like to link some sort of LCD RPM display onto it .. guess thats for later.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-40V-10A-Pulse-Width-Modulator-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-Switch-13KHz-Hot-/131730865540?hash=item1eabc57d84:g:ME4AAOSwuAVWxZv G

Features:
Control the speed of a DC motor with this controller.
High efficiency, high torque, low heat generating.
With reverse polarity protection, high current protection.
Working Voltage: DC 12V - DC 40V.
Control Power:0.01 - 400W.
Static Current:0.02 A ( Standby ).
PWM Duty Cycle:10% -100%.
PWM Frequency:13 KHz.
Material: Plastic, metal.
Size:6cm x 7.5cm x 2.8cm
Weight: 70g

cropwell
21-11-2016, 07:28 PM
That unit is for DC motors, I thought you had steppers !

Fivetide
21-11-2016, 09:26 PM
That unit is for DC motors, I thought you had steppers !

I thought it would be ok ?

Doddy
21-11-2016, 09:58 PM
I thought it would be ok ?

Nope, you need a stepper driver.

It's perfectly possible to drive the step/dir signals into multiple drivers - probably preferable to driving potentially unmatched motors in parallel (and offers a choice of multiple supplies if the load becomes an issue), but its a cost balance for your solution.

FWIW - the motors you spec'd - 2A per phase, I guess 2 phase - that's potentially 4A per motor holding current, so you have to be very aware of driving these in parallel.

Speed and direction control are then determined by the state of the dir signal (CW or CCW) and the frequency of the Step line. You could knock up a speed controller using an Arduino Uno or similar and a few lines of C code, and for relatively little extra cost have a full digital control set-up. Happy to give you more info if you want.

Fivetide
21-11-2016, 10:08 PM
Nope, you need a stepper driver.

It's perfectly possible to drive the step/dir signals into multiple drivers - probably preferable to driving potentially unmatched motors in parallel (and offers a choice of multiple supplies if the load becomes an issue), but its a cost balance for your solution.

FWIW - the motors you spec'd - 2A per phase, I guess 2 phase - that's potentially 4A per motor holding current, so you have to be very aware of driving these in parallel.

Speed and direction control are then determined by the state of the dir signal (CW or CCW) and the frequency of the Step line. You could knock up a speed controller using an Arduino Uno or similar and a few lines of C code, and for relatively little extra cost have a full digital control set-up. Happy to give you more info if you want.

In my mind its a DC motor with the ability to do stepping ? But I don't need the stop start precision of the step. I just want a small DC motor to turn at below 109 RPM. Hence why I thought a regular DC pulse regulator would just spin it in one direction..

magicniner
21-11-2016, 11:09 PM
In my mind its a DC motor with the ability to do stepping ?
It's a motor where energising multiple windings sequentially results in movement, the stepper driver deals with this, just applying DC or even PWM DC will not run a stepper motor, try it ;-)


I just want a small DC motor to turn at below 109 RPM. Hence why I thought a regular DC pulse regulator would just spin it in one direction..
Having control of precise steps allows you to use a frequency generator to create a precise RPM


I just want a small DC motor to turn at below 109 RPM.
You could just use conventional DC motors with a PWM driver but you will find you have some variation of speed with identical motors driven from a common supply.

Fivetide
21-11-2016, 11:23 PM
It's a motor where energising multiple windings sequentially results in movement, the stepper driver deals with this, just applying DC or even PWM DC will not run a stepper motor, try it ;-)


Having control of precise steps allows you to use a frequency generator to create a precise RPM


You could just use conventional DC motors with a PWM driver but you will find you have some variation of speed with identical motors driven from a common supply.

DAMN ! I just want a analogue driver/supply turning all three motors at (approximately) the same speed in a single direction lol

Right then.. 3 of those stepper motor controllers that are all wired to a big pot ? ( I have a box full of big to little Pots )
Plus about 5 shelves of laptop power supplies of every variant I can name !!
I will do this ... it wont bloody beat me ..!! :)

Clive S
21-11-2016, 11:35 PM
How about 3 of these for playing with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301199977453?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=27378760866&rlsatarget=pla-181484341266&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=9046436&device=c&campaignid=620865095&crdt=0

Plus what Rob selected http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stepper-motor-driver-controller-Speed-Regulator-Pulse-Signal-Generator-module-/252475644118?hash=item3ac8b898d6:g:niYAAOSwIgNXlrJ f&clk_rvr_id=1127280077835&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

magicniner
21-11-2016, 11:46 PM
Clive - Nail - On Head!

- Nick

Fivetide
21-11-2016, 11:48 PM
How about 3 of these for playing with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301199977453?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=27378760866&rlsatarget=pla-181484341266&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=9046436&device=c&campaignid=620865095&crdt=0

Plus what Rob selected http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stepper-motor-driver-controller-Speed-Regulator-Pulse-Signal-Generator-module-/252475644118?hash=item3ac8b898d6:g:niYAAOSwIgNXlrJ f&clk_rvr_id=1127280077835&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

AHA ! Clive awesome.. just seen the picture on the listing ..thanks mate as always .. going to go with that setup and play around :)

19680

Clive S
21-11-2016, 11:52 PM
AHA ! Clive awesome.. just seen the picture on the listing ..thanks mate as always .. going to go with that setup and play around :)

19680They do get an unfair bad press but if you keep within the current rating they are fine and at that price you can always buy a spare.

Remember not to disconnect a motor when powered up as this will let the magic smoke out.

Good luck

cropwell
22-11-2016, 12:36 AM
My little play kit is an arduino with a TB6560 to drive a stepper and a couple of relays. Project 1 is the Air/Spray/Mist cooler idea and project 2 is a spindle cooler with a small liquid volume closed circuit with a pump and radiator, controlled by a thermocouple in or on the spindle. This would also display the spindle temperature.

Here's a photo of the bits - 19681

Neale
22-11-2016, 12:44 AM
AHA ! Clive awesome.. just seen the picture on the listing ..thanks mate as always .. going to go with that setup and play around :)

19680

...and to clarify, you just need one of those pulse generator modules, which can drive three of the cheap stepper drivers. That way, all three motors will run at the same speed.

Fivetide
22-11-2016, 01:32 AM
My little play kit is an arduino with a TB6560 to drive a stepper and a couple of relays. Project 1 is the Air/Spray/Mist cooler idea and project 2 is a spindle cooler with a small liquid volume closed circuit with a pump and radiator, controlled by a thermocouple in or on the spindle. This would also display the spindle temperature.

Here's a photo of the bits - 19681

Well the project I'm working on is to start with an analogue mechanical machine. I have a couple of arduino + PWM boards and a robotics setup for RasPi.. ATM want to KISS the project. But if I can get it off the ground then I'll definitely be asking you for more advice on adding a more accurate control system, especially to steadily increase the RPM's. Heats not a problem as it has a water dripper for cooling. I'll use the spare DC motor controller and attach it to a small 3 inch fan to cool the other controllers.


...and to clarify, you just need one of those pulse generator modules, which can drive three of the cheap stepper drivers. That way, all three motors will run at the same speed.

Already order :)
TB6560 CNC 3A Router Single 1 Axis Controller Stepper Motor Driver Module
( 301199977453 )

Quantity: 3

Stepper motor driver controller Speed Regulator Pulse Signal Generator module
( 252475644118 )