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View Full Version : Breakout board to Telemechanique Altivar 18 wiring (Mach3)



Agathon
09-12-2016, 01:28 AM
I'm having some difficulty getting my head round how to connect my BOB to a nos Altivar 18 inverter. I can get the BOB to do the switching functions ie run, reverse etc, but I can't work out how to get it to control the speed. I think I have Mach3 correctly configured to the BOB, but I'm unsure how to connect for speed control.

Here's the BOB I have:
19934

And this is the Altivar 18 wiring diagram:

19935

I'm guessing that "0-10 Spindle Speed Output", labelled on the board as gnd and 10v, should connect to "com" and "AI2" but this doesn't work. What am I missing?

John S
09-12-2016, 01:37 AM
Are you feeding the BOB with a 12v supply the the terminals above the 0-10v ?
Failing that have you changed the parameter for the pot ?

Agathon
09-12-2016, 01:46 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. I tried feeding 24v from the inverter to the 12-24v input but it just lit up a led on the BOB - not sure what the purpose of the 12-24v input is.

I haven't altered anything in the inverter programming for the pot - you may have hit on it. I've been using these things for years, don't know why I didn't think of it straight away. I'll check it in the morning. Thanks.

Doddy
09-12-2016, 07:55 AM
I know nothing about that inverter, but for my Chinese inverter I had to set parameters to accept a 0-10V input (rather than front-panel controls). But, yes, the idea is to connect the 0-10V output (and ground) to the COM/A12 on the inverter.

JAZZCNC
09-12-2016, 09:30 PM
I'm guessing that "0-10 Spindle Speed Output", labelled on the board as gnd and 10v, should connect to "com" and "AI2" but this doesn't work. What am I missing?

You are correct with wiring Gnd to Com 10v to AI2.

Can you control the speed from the front panel of the VFD.? . . . . If yes then you need to change parameter for Frequency Control to external source. The default is nearly always front panel.

Agathon
10-12-2016, 01:05 PM
Thanks for all the replies. The inverter doesn't have speed control from the front panel. According to the manual AIC and AI2 are already configured and certainly if I connect a 1.5v battery between com and AI2 the inverter runs at about 15% as one might expect. If connect directly between +10 and AI2 the inverter runs at full speed, again as expected. So no problem with the inverter configuration.

Having played around with Mach3 and thought more about this two things occur to me:

1. I can get Mach3 to switch the spindle relay on, but the spindle DRO does not display an RPM and altering the speed doesn't alter any of the numbers from 0. Surely, even with nothing connected it should show values if it is generating pulses?
2. The inverter is looking for 0-10v between com and AI2, but where does the BOB get 10v from if it only has a 5v power supply? Do I need the 12-24v supply connected? I can take 24v from the inverter.

Agathon
10-12-2016, 02:14 PM
OK. Just connected up the 24v from the inverter to the 12-24v input on the BOB and punching in a speed on the SDRO makes the inverter run. However, at 100% it's only giving 89hz instead of 100hz and it goes up slightly if I touch the 10v output with a screwdriver or meter probe - wierd. I'm getting around 9v across 10v and gnd.

Maybe I need to use a separate 12-24v supply to the BOB.

edipelangi
08-07-2017, 08:36 AM
Thanks for all the replies. The inverter doesn't have speed control from the front panel. According to the manual AIC and AI2 are already configured and certainly if I connect a 1.5v battery between com and AI2 the inverter runs at about 15% as one might expect. If connect directly between +10 and AI2 the inverter runs at full speed, again as expected. So no problem with the inverter configuration.

Having played around with Mach3 and thought more about this two things occur to me:

1. I can get Mach3 to switch the spindle relay on, but the spindle DRO does not display an RPM and altering the speed doesn't alter any of the numbers from 0. Surely, even with nothing connected it should show values if it is generating pulses?
2. The inverter is looking for 0-10v between com and AI2, but where does the BOB get 10v from if it only has a 5v power supply? Do I need the 12-24v supply connected? I can take 24v from the inverter.

hai agathon , nice to meet u here.

i got the same issue with my mach3 to control the spindle. i can turn on the spindle with mach3 and then the spindle run to max rpm 24000.
after that i can not control the speed anymore.

have u solved this issue ? i use the same BOB like yours and the HY 1,5 kw inverter.


regards,

eddy.

Agathon
08-07-2017, 12:04 PM
hai agathon , nice to meet u here.

i got the same issue with my mach3 to control the spindle. i can turn on the spindle with mach3 and then the spindle run to max rpm 24000.
after that i can not control the speed anymore.

have u solved this issue ? i use the same BOB like yours and the HY 1,5 kw inverter.


regards,

eddy.

Hi Eddy - my spindle now working as it should, but I don't think I can advise about your set-up as I'm not familiar with your inverter. Maybe someone else here can help. David

EddyCurrent
08-07-2017, 04:09 PM
If it's working now it would be a great idea to let others know what you did.

Agathon
08-07-2017, 04:35 PM
If it's working now it would be a great idea to let others know what you did.

Actually, having just revisited setting up my spindle I find that I haven't solved the problem. I can turned the spindle on an off and punching in a speed alters the frequency but not as I expect. I will investigate further and post my findings.

EddyCurrent
08-07-2017, 04:49 PM
Is this on the Picomax machine ?

Agathon
08-07-2017, 04:54 PM
Is this on the Picomax machine ?

Indeed it is.

EddyCurrent
08-07-2017, 06:45 PM
This is the manual for the bob, it shows which settings to make in Mach3
https://www.rockcliffmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/Breakout-Board-Manual.pdf

The attached picture shows how I would connect the bob to the inverter

1. assuming the bob relay contacts are N/O, use this on inverter LI1
this prevents the inverter giving output until the relay is energised
and LI1 is the default input for FORWARD.

2. You need an external power supply for the bob.
24v from the inverter can only supply 100ma
and is intended for logic I/O only.

3. connect the 0-10v output from the bob to AI1
the AI1 terminal is the default input for this speed
reference signal.

22114

Agathon
08-07-2017, 08:12 PM
This is the manual for the bob, it shows which settings to make in Mach3
https://www.rockcliffmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/Breakout-Board-Manual.pdf

The attached picture shows how I would connect the bob to the inverter

1. assuming the bob relay contacts are N/O, use this on inverter LI1
this prevents the inverter giving output until the relay is energised
and LI1 is the default input for FORWARD.

2. You need an external power supply for the bob.
24v from the inverter can only supply 100ma
and is intended for logic I/O only.

3. connect the 0-10v output from the bob to AI1
the AI1 terminal is the default input for this speed
reference signal.

22114

That's a really great reply EddyCurrent. Where were you back in December!! I did manage to work out the connections in the end - as you can see from the vid on my build project. I have mine connected between COM and AI2 which is the 0-10v for the Altivar 18. However I don't have LO+ and +24 connected - it works ok but should I have them connected? I have a 12v SMPS (wall-wart) supplying the BOB.

Unfortunately, the BOB relay contacts are NC (doh) so if the computer isn't running the spindle runs when power is connected to the inverter. This seems to be a massive design flaw as there doesn't appear to be a means of altering this. I expect I'll use the spare relay on my 8-module board to turn the spindle on and off via one of the spare outputs on the BOB.

On the PWM/0-10v side of things, my BOB would only produce 9.85v when Mach3 was set to the PWM base frequency of 100hz as per the BOB manual. Consequently I couldn't get the inverter to quite run at my programmed maximum frequency (in my case 100hz) and all other frequency settings were some way out.

I've had a good fiddle about with the settings on Mach3 this afternoon and found that setting PWM to 50hz (see pic) gets maximum frequency from the inverter (I'm surmising that means 10v from the BOB, but have to admit that I've not put a meter across it). I've also gone through pulley settings too and have calibrated the spindle to within 50 or 60rpm - which seems good to me. I note however that ramping down the spindle in Mach3 from 100% in 10% steps that the frequency at the inverter was out by 1-1.5hz. So at 50hz I'm actually getting 49.2 or so, again well withing tolerance as far as I'm concerned.

22115

I'm going to say more about spindle speeds on my build-project thread - http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/11067-Fehlmann-Picomax-50-CNC-conversion-refurb