PDA

View Full Version : Denford VMC1300 - Rescued



Chas Ixion
24-12-2016, 01:36 PM
I recently picked up a Denford VMC 1300 from my local scrap metal merchant.

Here it is on the way into my workshop.


20074

I have no idea what condition it is in but I figure that it was (probably) sent to the scrap yard for a good reason.

My plan is to find a permanent place for it in my workshop then try and diagnose what does and doesn't still work. If its the electronics side of things I'll probably retrofit a LinuxCNC based solution.

However I have no idea how to figure out what is and what isn't re-usable so it will be a steep learning curve, any help/advice gratefully received....

andy_con
24-12-2016, 10:18 PM
I'll buy it off you ;)

m_c
25-12-2016, 12:46 AM
Chas,

post up some good pics of the control cabinet when you get time, and we can point you in the right direction.


I'll buy it off you ;)

I'd keep the Triac ;)

andy_con
25-12-2016, 10:02 AM
Chas,

post up some good pics of the control cabinet when you get time, and we can point you in the right direction.



I'd keep the Triac ;)

Or have both ;)

Chas Ixion
17-01-2017, 07:35 PM
With xmas out of the way I managed to get some time in the shed. After struggling to get the thing onto my workbench I removed the covers.

20390

I was able to have a poke around and establish that it did actually have steppers and ballscrews (I was worried it had been gutted of useful parts).

The Z-axis stepper has a sticker that I hope will help me identify it.
20391

As far as I can make out it looks like the part number is M60STH88-3008D and it was made by / supplied by Motion Control Products.

Poking around their website ( http://motioncontrolproducts.com/ (http://motioncontrolproducts.com/)) I found a spec sheet for a M60STH88-3008DF I'm not sure of the significance of the F on the end.

I've also discovered that the contol cabinet is accessed from the back not the side as I originally thought. This means I need to move the thing again to get access.

Oh and I haven't been able to release the tool holder, does anyone know if I just need to pull on the lever harder or if there's a drawbar or somewhere I can tap to break the taper?

m_c
18-01-2017, 12:16 AM
That datasheet should be good enough. The main thing is once you have the machine running, make sure the steppers aren't getting too hot.
Is that a brake assembly on the end of the stepper?

You'll want to check the other stepper motors, as X and Y are often fitted with smaller steppers than the Z.


Regarding the tool holder, if it's been in there for a while, there may be a bit corrosion helping to stick it. You might need to get somebody to push/pull the release lever, while somebody else gives the toolholder a hit downwards with a hammer and block of wood.

Gary
18-01-2017, 09:23 AM
The F means a flat on the shaft.
I sold those motors to denford when i worked at MCP, many moons ago.

Chas Ixion
18-01-2017, 10:04 AM
That datasheet should be good enough. The main thing is once you have the machine running, make sure the steppers aren't getting too hot.
Is that a brake assembly on the end of the stepper?

You'll want to check the other stepper motors, as X and Y are often fitted with smaller steppers than the Z.


Regarding the tool holder, if it's been in there for a while, there may be a bit corrosion helping to stick it. You might need to get somebody to push/pull the release lever, while somebody else gives the toolholder a hit downwards with a hammer and block of wood.

No idea about the end of the stepper,

Judging by the state of the table corrosion is highly likely. I'll try and get some penetrating fluid in there to do it's work before getting the hammer out.

Chas Ixion
18-01-2017, 10:08 AM
The F means a flat on the shaft.
I sold those motors to denford when i worked at MCP, many moons ago.

Thanks, thats a mystery solved then :)

m_c
18-01-2017, 10:15 AM
No idea about the end of the stepper,

Judging by the state of the table corrosion is highly likely. I'll try and get some penetrating fluid in there to do it's work before getting the hammer out.
Penetrating fluid is more likely to do more harm than good near a spindle, and will make no difference to any corrosion that may be on the spindle taper. Just get somebody to swing on the release lever while somebody else taps the holder with the hammer.

andy_con
18-01-2017, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't swing on anything if it were my mill!

if you remove the casing/cover around the spindle you will probably see a spindle motor connected to the atc spindle via a belt - that's how denford normally do it.

above the atc spindle is a powered drawbar, you need to remove the powered drawbar and then hit the end of the atc spindle with a hammer to release a tool.

all the powered draw bar down is push down on the sprung tip of the spindle atc

m_c
19-01-2017, 12:27 AM
I wouldn't swing on anything if it were my mill!

if you remove the casing/cover around the spindle you will probably see a spindle motor connected to the atc spindle via a belt - that's how denford normally do it.

above the atc spindle is a powered drawbar, you need to remove the powered drawbar and then hit the end of the atc spindle with a hammer to release a tool.

all the powered draw bar down is push down on the sprung tip of the spindle atc

The manual toolchange VMCs have no pneumatics, instead you get a big lever on the side of the head for releasing the tool. I'm assuming underneath the cover, it's the same spindle/drawbar/spring stack as an ATC version, it's just using a lever instead of a pneumatic actuator.
Provided the lever is compressing the spring stack correctly, then all it's likely needing is somebody to pull the lever, while somebody taps the toolholder to give it a bit helping hand to pop it out.
I'd certainly be trying that before going to the extent of stripping of the spring stack and drawbar.

Chas Ixion
19-01-2017, 06:52 AM
I had another go yesterday and all that was needed was a more confident pull on the lever, no need for further stripping or hammers.:thumsup:

Chas Ixion
22-01-2017, 02:20 PM
In between doing 'other stuff' in my shed I had a look under the bellows on the y axis and under the guard on the z.

Not much to see under the bellows although the linear bearings and ball screw don't look obviously knackered.

20427

This is the x axis stepper motor,
20426


Its smaller than the z axis stepper. I'm guessing its a NEMA17.
I'm going to google the numbers on the sticker (3100422k) to see if it throws up any clues.

Finally I've had a look at the spindle motor wiring.
20428

My guess is that the heavy gauge wires are power feed. I'm not sue what the pairs of red/blue wires are for. The top pair both have yellow tags labelled 'T'. As far as I can make out the bottom pair has a red tag labelled 22 on the blue wire and a black tag labelled 11 on the red wire. The bottom pair are connected together by a short jumper on the other side of the block.

m_c
22-01-2017, 10:04 PM
Have you downloaded the wiring diagrams from the Denford forum?

My guess would be one pair is a tacho feedback, and the other a thermal cutout (probably the ones that have been looped). If there's a model number on the spindle motor, you should be able to find a datasheet.
Also, check to see what wire numbers end up at the spindle driver, as that would give you a good idea, as only the power (probably via a relay or two), and tacho feedback will go to the driver. The thermal cutout would form part of the e-stop loop.

Chas Ixion
23-01-2017, 09:02 PM
I have downloaded the wiring diagrams, and based on what I've seen so far I think this http://www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=2528 is the right one for my machine.

I'm waiting for a m10 eye bolt I ordered from ebay (I ordered two but they only had one) which I am hoping will make lifting the thing a bit easier, then I can get into the guts of the electronics.

At the moment my plan is to replace the motion controller with either Linux CNC or something arduino based, but before I do I would like to establish if the steppers and drivers are functional. Is there an easy way to test the drivers and steppers without a motion controller?

m_c
23-01-2017, 09:21 PM
It would depend what controller is fitted. I'd hazard a guess that it will be the later USB NextMove controller, but I've got no idea if it'll use the all in one daughter board like the smaller mills used, or if they'll of used separate drivers.
Either way, it would be a case of working out what the step/dir pins are, and patching into them, while also making sure power and enables have been connected correctly.

Chas Ixion
29-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Making a bit more progress.

Eyebolt didn't work out, it fouls the casting and cant be screwed in. Resorted to using a crowbar on the legs of the stand and got it moved enough to get the backplate off.
Managed to get some photos of the main components. I'm guessing this is the main motion controller board.

20528

Power distribution (????)

20529

Stepper drivers

20530

The stepper drivers appear to be labelled XLT50-S which should help me identify the wiring diagram to use.

My plan is to replace the motion controller with this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EU-Stock-4-Axis-500KHz-Offline-Controller-CNC-G-Code-100-Pulse-MPG-Handwheel-/112280872566?hash=item1a24762676:g:-qMAAOSwjDZYde-j

According to some documentation I have found online (http://www.parker.com/parkerimages/euro_emd/EME/Literature_List/dokumentationen/192_100616_xlt50-d_xlt50-s%203-axis%20stepper%20drive_manual.pdf ) the driver design is at least 14 years old, on the basis of this i'm going to investigate the options for replacing the drivers with something more up to date, any recommendations?

Chas Ixion
01-02-2017, 11:59 AM
After spending hours on google I decided to go for Leadshine EM806 drivers from Zapp.... just placed the order.

m_c
02-02-2017, 12:37 AM
EM806s are good drives. Did you order a programming lead, as it makes setting them up easier?


You'll need to study the wiring diagrams to work out what the power board does. I think some of the later Triacs used something similar, and some of the relays are used as interlocks, to ensure critical things weren't solely controlled by the controlled.
The top board is the later controller. Smaller machines used the in built stepper drivers in the lower board. If everything was still connected, you could possibly try powering it up and see what shows up on the 7 segment display. It would give an indication of if there was anything major wrong with the original controller.