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BriceO
20-01-2017, 10:26 AM
Hi everyone,

I recently had a problem with my cnc. I tried several things without success, I need your help.
The connection between earth and a damaged wire from the spindle created a short circuit. There was no smoke, the circuit breaker trips. I replaced the damaged wire and now I have the error A.oL and then E.oA.A. when I try to start the vfd.

My setup is: 220v, 800w, 5A, 400HZ, water cooled spindle with a Huanyang VFD 1.5kw. The cable between vfd and spindle is 4 core 16awg shielded.

The spindle seems to be ok. The resistance is 4.2Ohm between each pins (U,V,W not the earth).

Visually the VFD is ok. When I run it witout the cable attached to the spindle there is no error. I tried also to reset settings and apply it again. My setting is:
PD000=0
PD001=0
PD002=1
PD003=400
PD004=400
PD005=400
PD008=220
PD141=220
PD142=5
PD143=4
PD144=3000

Do you have any advice to determine the problem please?

Thanks in advance for your help!

JAZZCNC
21-01-2017, 01:37 AM
Sorry to say but often with these if you have E.### errors it's toasted and nothing can be done for it.
I've fitted lots of these and only had 4 failures but 2 of them failed with similair errors and both where dead.

BriceO
21-01-2017, 10:58 AM
Thanks for your reply :)

Is there a way to check that the problem is the VFD and not the motor. If I order a new one I would like to be sure that this is the VFD the problem.
Do you had a lot of Huanyang VFD? Are they good in general? Thanks for your help.

JAZZCNC
21-01-2017, 03:07 PM
Thanks for your reply :)

Is there a way to check that the problem is the VFD and not the motor. If I order a new one I would like to be sure that this is the VFD the problem.
Do you had a lot of Huanyang VFD? Are they good in general? Thanks for your help.

Very much doubt it's the Spindle they are simple devices. About only useful test you can do is continuity test and check windings haven't shorted to body.

The VFD's are ok for the money and do the job when working but wouldn't say they are Good quality. If you can't return and nothing inside is obviously damaged so can be repaired then much better replacing with higher quality unit.

BriceO
22-01-2017, 03:17 PM
Thanks, so the spindle should be ok.

I really doubt that I can return it as the seller doesn't reply my messages. But I just checked the VFD and found a transistor exploded.

20429
20430
This is the model number: kdg15n120h ( documentation (http://gxjs.keda-group.com/resource/files/201401/20140127142750420.pdf))
What do you think ? Is there a chance to save the VFD by replacing this transistor?

Thanks for your help. :beer:

cropwell
22-01-2017, 03:44 PM
You could try replacing the bit, they are cheap enough ($25 for 10 from China), but don't be surprised if the damage goes back a little deeper than that one component. For the cost of the bits, it is worth a punt. Check your circuit board tracks haven't been fried as well !

Doddy
22-01-2017, 09:42 PM
Of course you've blown it up at exactly the wrong time - about the start of the Chinese new year and the black-hole of all internet orders. I can't see a UK supplier but it might be worth looking up an equivalent.

JAZZCNC
22-01-2017, 09:52 PM
I can't see a UK supplier but it might be worth looking up an equivalent.

He's in Toblerone land so UK supplier won't do him much good anyway.! . . . . I'd have small wager this will come back to life with that part replaced and I'm sure there be supplier in Swizyland.!! . . . . If pays my Air fare and Lift pass I'll take him my spare and go boarding while at it. . :applause:

Jonathan
23-01-2017, 01:19 PM
Post some part numbers for similar ones you can get locally and I will comment on if they are likely to be suitable. You should use the multi-meter on diode and resistance test to poke around for damaged parts. Does the VFD display an error with the IGBT now removed?

BriceO
23-01-2017, 06:49 PM
Thanks for your answers!
@JAZZCNC maybe if you take some English ales with you ;)

I just begin to check the circuit. By now, tracks are surprisingly good, but there is some strange connections... I will continue to test the circuit.

I checked the part in china but you're right it will be difficult to replace it with the same model.
It would be awesome if you could advice me :)

A good shop in Switzerland is Distrelec. I've searched for some replacement parts (http://www.distrelec.ch/search?q=iGBT&page=4&pageSize=10) and I think about this one maybe: http://www.distrelec.ch/fr/igbt-to-220ab-600-16-ir-irg4bc20kdpbf/p/17100376?q=iGBT&page=4&origPos=37&origPageSize=50&simi=97.47

Should I replace all IGBT or only the broken one ?

Thanks you, all for your help.

Jonathan
23-01-2017, 06:57 PM
The IGBT you linked to is TO220 package, but the original is TO247 so you should look for that instead. Also the voltage rating (surprisingly) is 1200V, so I would get the same unless replacing all of them. I would replace both in the same 'leg' on the inverter - so 2 out of 6, unless more seem to be fried.

BriceO
23-01-2017, 08:14 PM
Ok, this model is a better choice ? http://www.distrelec.ch/fr/igbt-to-247-1200-60-ir-irgp30b120kd-ep/p/17139843?q=iGBT&filter_Type+de+bo%C3%AEtier=TO-247&filter_Tension+de+claquage+collecteur-%C3%A9metteur%7E%7EV=1200&page=1&origPos=10&origPageSize=50&simi=96.69

Jonathan
23-01-2017, 08:31 PM
That's better. Next check that the turn on/turn off delay times in the datasheet are no greater than those of the original. Same for the total gate charge (Qg). This is for compatibility with the programmed dead time and gate drive. If those specifications are met you can be reasonably confident that it's suitable. You could go into more detail (e.g. compare the Vds vs Ids), but it's not really worth it for a cheap product and you would need to identify more components in the circuit to be sure.

Edit: Also, in order of preference for brands I would go with for IGBTs are Infineon, IR, ST / ON Semi & others. But this is pretty subjective.

[P.S. I'm trying to demonstrate how to choose - not just give you a link. For reference, I've found some in England for around 3 CHF.]

BriceO
25-01-2017, 08:17 AM
I appreciate your help, I'm reading more about these IGBT to have a better understanding of these.
Is it better to have the nearest value as possible or just lower than the original? I think the nearest, am I right?
There is different type of "TO247" like TO-247-3, is it the same?

So, I found some of them, the cheapest one I found with corresponding datasheet: 1 (http://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/HGTG5N120BND/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv4z0HnGdrLjlrhJO43FrRxZF0FX5wxrAc%3d ),2 (http://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/Infineon-IR/IRG8P08N120KDPBF/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv4z0HnGdrLjnYXc0%252bukr2DAyJ6V%252b fSwcSJrhEacm11oQ%3d%3d),3 (http://www.mouser.ch/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/HGTG11N120CND/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv4z0HnGdrLjlrhJO43FrRxTJIRytJoM%2fU% 3d)

I would go with the first one if you think it's a good choice or I'm missing something ?

:smile:

paulus.v
25-01-2017, 04:22 PM
I'm interested to see if you will be able to repair your vfd as I also have a similar one with the same problem, but I have some more damage on the PCB. My IGBTs are the Fairchild FGA25N120 (http://ro.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=fga25n120), possibly the more expensive ones but not sure what's the difference between the two. Anyway I wanted to let you know that on exactly the same PCB, the Chinese fitted these IBGTs in my unit. No sure if it helps..

Jonathan
26-01-2017, 02:11 AM
Is it better to have the nearest value as possible or just lower than the original? I think the nearest, am I right?

It depends on the parameter. For a new design, you want the lowest values that affect the conduction and switching losses, so the forward voltage and switching time (related to gate charge) respectively. However when replacing a part you need to consider that the engineer will have matched the gate drive circuit to the particular IGBT, one would hope at least. Switching faster leads to more emi, so it's common to intentionally switch the devices more slowly (by increasing the gate series resistor) to reduce the emi to meet a specification. You could look at what gate resistors you have, versus the datasheet values - but bear in mind the datasheet isn't definitive. At best it's a good guideline, at worst it's a marketing document designed to make you buy the part.

This sort of thing matters more with bigger devices, like these 900 Amp ones I've been playing with lately:

20490


There is different type of "TO247" like TO-247-3, is it the same?

I think the -3 is just designating that the part has three pins. One important thing to check is if the package of the ones you have has metal on the back, or is all plastic? If plastic, then you should either get the same or add insulation to the new ones (bit awkward).


I would go with the first one if you think it's a good choice or I'm missing something ?

I think it's OK - the forward voltage is a bit higher so it will heat up more, but the current used with these spindles tends to be a lot less than the VFD rating so you will get away with it. If it breaks again you know what to do...

BriceO
30-03-2017, 08:09 PM
Hi everyone,

Good news! :joyous: After replacing two diodes, one resistance and two IGBT, the VFD works perfectly. I hope this will last...

Thanks for your help!! :very_drunk: Very happy to see it work again!

alexpi01
06-09-2017, 03:06 PM
Hi everyone,

Good news! :joyous: After replacing two diodes, one resistance and two IGBT, the VFD works perfectly. I hope this will last...

Thanks for your help!! :very_drunk: Very happy to see it work again!


Hello! Glad that you got success. As I burnde my HY VFD too, please can you tell which IGBT equivalent did you use?

BriceO
07-09-2017, 07:46 AM
Hello! Glad that you got success. As I burnde my HY VFD too, please can you tell which IGBT equivalent did you use?

Hi,
Thanks, I use this one: kdg15n120h for 2 X US4.5/pcs by HitMart Chinese (Aliexpress). But you can certainly use different one. Check the message of Jonathan to choose an IGBT.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

alexpi01
07-09-2017, 08:48 AM
Hi,
Thanks, I use this one: kdg15n120h for 2 X US4.5/pcs by HitMart Chinese (Aliexpress). But you can certainly use different one. Check the message of Jonathan to choose an IGBT.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks BriceO! I already read (carefully) all this thread, including Jonathan hints. On Aliexpress this item has disappeared and I hoped you, following Jonathan's hints , had choose an equivalence between tens of approximately equivalent items around-the-world.
Luckily, yesterday evening, hovering the Internet and seeking kdg15n120h, I might "stepped on a swarm" and this morning I got around 10 offers for this item, under 1$/pcs.
Extraordinary people these Chinese...

For those who will be in a similar situation it's good to know the locationa of that "swarm": http://www.seekic.com/

Thank you again