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Tenson
01-04-2017, 05:29 PM
I would like to get my Dad a small 3D printer. He doesn't have a need, it's just for fun and shouldn't cost more than 200.

I have a decent CNC mill/router and could cut part if there are easy to use files.

Can anyone recommended a good option? I was thinking kind of like maker bot wherd I cut the plywood parts and get a kit of the mechanisms. Though I guess maker bot is outdated now?

Thanks!

alboy
02-04-2017, 12:43 AM
I would like to get my Dad a small 3D printer. He doesn't have a need, it's just for fun and shouldn't cost more than 200.

I have a decent CNC mill/router and could cut part if there are easy to use files.

Can anyone recommended a good option? I was thinking kind of like maker bot wherd I cut the plywood parts and get a kit of the mechanisms. Though I guess maker bot is outdated now?

Thanks!

I have a Wanhao i3 prusa type printer, had it a while and very impressed with the quality of print. I think mine was about 280 though but it did come assembled. You may find cheaper versions with acrylic frames but the all metal frames are much sturdier.

Al

JOGARA
02-04-2017, 02:27 AM
I have the TEVO Tarantula I3 and it is great. Less than 200 shipped.


If you have the ability to make your own, check out the RepRap project.
Loads of builds on there ready to make.

Washout
03-04-2017, 12:30 AM
I have also acquired a Prusa i3 clone recently from Amazon (Hictop) and I highly recommend it as a starter, but from the experience of others who have bought similar printers I would recommend getting a model with auto bed leveling.

Nickhofen
24-04-2017, 05:35 PM
On facebook there is a group for Anet A8 3D printers, this printer cost about 150euros and it looks very good and solid.Unfortunatelly I do not own one and I cannot give more info.
The only disadvantage I can find is that it comes as a kit.
http://www.gearbest.com/3d-printers-3d-printer-kits/pp_343643.html?wid=8&siteid=136649&vip=762298&gclid=Cj0KEQjwxPbHBRCdxJLF3qen3dYBEiQAMRyxS0CQn8fo agfA77Y_sTys6LJpzcORpsMFpo9tTsFSrvkaAoka8P8HAQ

Desertboy
25-04-2017, 04:51 PM
If you have a access to a milling machine/router that can handle the size of parts google I3 graber and make your own frame from aluminium or ply (The DXF files are open source and freely available) and buy everything else separately.

I am about to rebuild my Mendel to a I3 Graber so I can write you a list of parts and do a little build diary if you want.

I wouldn't expect to save money doing it yourself but I would expect the product to be far superior. Autolevelling is an inductive (Or capacitve sensor) cost me 1.50 to implement with a chinese special but sourced from UK still under 10.

AndyGuid
26-04-2017, 03:46 AM
If you have a access to a milling machine/router that can handle the size of parts google I3 graber and make your own frame from aluminium or ply (The DXF files are open source and freely available) and buy everything else separately.

I am about to rebuild my Mendel to a I3 Graber so I can write you a list of parts and do a little build diary if you want.

It would be great to have a build with lists to follow!

Desertboy
26-04-2017, 06:46 PM
No worries as soon as my frame comes I will strip it down and get pics then we can work from there.

komatias
27-04-2017, 11:45 AM
Plenty of open builds on Thingiverse:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2254103

Desertboy
27-04-2017, 01:00 PM
To keep costs down though I would avoid extrusion after all this is a play thing not a production machine. I bought this frame from Ukraine (Still not arrived! after almost 4 weeks)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282125017116?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

you can make this from 1/4 sheet of ply and I intend to remake it on my cnc milling machine when I finish it but oversized so I can print bigger, also make it with 12mm not 6mm ply which means minor cad modifications.

I was thinking though of modifying the cad files so I can bracket every corner then it will be on par with the aluminium machines but a damn site better looking ;)

I have a thing for wood especially when varnished.

Boyan Silyavski
27-04-2017, 10:57 PM
This is probably the best made clone with quality components http://www.3despana.com/kit-de-impresora-3d/375-kit-impresora-3d-prusa-i3-p3steel-3de-pro-mk9-mk3-completo.html

this is also a very nice variant https://www.reprapwilson3d.com/collections/frontpage/products/wilson-ii-complete-kit?variant=18734558981

for a prusa MK2 copy http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1692666 and http://reprap4u.cz/


Anything less or cheaper is seriously compromised, will lead to frustration and the learning will turn to nightmare and unsatisfactory. round unsupported rails is a minimum that i hardly accepted. Rollers rolling on aluminum profile is a joke, dont be fooled.

if you are serious to get into 3d printing i will not consider anything less than Prusa MK2, even that with many reservations.

The questions " what printer for 300$" "What printer for less than 250$" and so on are the main reason i stopped to participate in any printing Facebook group. It ridiculous. To me it sounds like" I want a Ferrari, i see people are driving them, what model for around 3000$? " . or i want a CNC that cuts Aluminum, "which one for 500 quid?"

I was accustomed to bash people here for the CNC question, but at printing forums all jumped against me, when i say anything less than 700 is crap/ which it is/ . So i just stopped educating them on bearings and stuff. Just make the math. Hiwin 12 bearings for 3d printer are 250$, the cheapest sensible board is 130$, aluminum profile is 50$, even Chinise Hiwin copy is 150$ and Good round rails and bearings are 150$ and more. So how do you make a 150$ printer? using crap parts of course. Good boards and drivers are at least 180$, the good ones like Duet are around 300.

Robin Hewitt
27-04-2017, 11:06 PM
but oversized so I can print bigger

Bigger sounds like a good idea until you try it. Bigger makes for all sorts of problems like lifting and everything being stone cold when you go back to start the next layer :encouragement:

Desertboy
27-04-2017, 11:43 PM
Bigger sounds like a good idea until you try it. Bigger makes for all sorts of problems like lifting and everything being stone cold when you go back to start the next layer :encouragement:

Bigger is a art form but you can make it work I've seen some good large parts.

komatias
28-04-2017, 11:28 AM
The questions " what printer for 300$" "What printer for less than 250$" and so on are the main reason i stopped to participate in any printing Facebook group. It ridiculous. To me it sounds like" I want a Ferrari, i see people are driving them, what model for around 3000$? " . or i want a CNC that cuts Aluminum, "which one for 500 quid?"

I was accustomed to bash people here for the CNC question, but at printing forums all jumped against me, when i say anything less than 700 is crap/ which it is/ . So i just stopped educating them on bearings and stuff. Just make the math. Hiwin 12 bearings for 3d printer are 250$, the cheapest sensible board is 130$, aluminum profile is 50$, even Chinise Hiwin copy is 150$ and Good round rails and bearings are 150$ and more. So how do you make a 150$ printer? using crap parts of course. Good boards and drivers are at least 180$, the good ones like Duet are around 300.


IT gets better...let make a 4 axis CNC with two drives off one set of pins....can't save everyone:ambivalence:

charlieuk
28-04-2017, 04:10 PM
I have been trying to research in to the buying a off the shelf reedy to run printer v a genuine prusa v building my own using hiwin rails. I'm tempted to go with the prusa mk2 but quite fancy building a nice frame using single arms from extrusion running on some hiwin carnages so I can go a fraction larger.

How hard is it to get a diy printer super reliable like I read about off the shelf printers?

My way of thinking is there is no point in saving $1000 on the printer if it costs $2000 in time messing about trying to set it up.

charlieuk
29-04-2017, 10:36 AM
I just bit the bullet and ordered a original prusa i3 mk2 kit 7 week wait mind! By the time you spend a few hours f!!!ng about with a clone getting it set up the extra cost will pay for its self easy I figured. say 8 hours of faffing @ $40 a hour and a bunch of wasted prints and you have made your money back plus you have support, spare parts and constant development and upgrades available. The plan will be to use this for a while and then use it to help build something larger

Desertboy
29-04-2017, 10:53 AM
I just bit the bullet and ordered a original prusa i3 mk2 kit 7 week wait mind! By the time you spend a few hours f!!!ng about with a clone getting it set up the extra cost will pay for its self easy I figured. say 8 hours of faffing @ $40 a hour and a bunch of wasted prints and you have made your money back plus you have support, spare parts and constant development and upgrades available. The plan will be to use this for a while and then use it to help build something larger

If you're into cnc 3d printing is not so hard as the tolerances are far more forgiving. Can't go wrong with a prusa really nice machines for the price point.

Getting an original kit you're paying for the guarantee of good smooth rails and bearings but other than that there's not a lot difference between decent chinese clones and the original.

You can of course get complete crap and the sub 300 ones I would start to worry about the linear stages.

For under 400 you can get very nice printer that does nice prints but as anyone into cnc knows you can also spend 20 times that to improve a couple of microns.

You have to decide what it is you want and how much is it worth to you.

Boyan Silyavski I disagree about the electronics nothing wrong with ramps/arduino for 3d printers on a budget in fact using arduino and cnc shield for my milling machine for now and will upgrade the electronics later as I believe a ballscrew is more important than running my steppers at full potential.

Boyan Silyavski
02-05-2017, 08:46 AM
I dont see how one will sell a print having something less than Prusa MK2.

With my knowledge in CNC i needed about 2 months 24h printing to figure almost >90% how to make excellent prints, so i can say i am almost an expert in filament printing now. Not Super expert, mind. For that i need some more 1 ton of printed stuff in the next couple of years. having a crappy printer easily could translate that 2 months of learning to 2-3 years trying to figure stuff out.

Most of the people on 3d forums and Facebook groups dont have really a good idea about whats happening, but that does not stop them to give advice... beware of that. About 99% of them still dont comprehend the simple fact that you have to measure every time filament diameter and not touch the bloody extrusion multiplier in adjustments, which is for totally different purpose

I am not saying there is something wrong in the Ramps and Arduino, as obviously they are fast enough for what is needed. I am saying that a brand board with 5+ and 6+ good motor controllers 2xx will be more than 130 euro, as simply each controller is >10 euro, so you do the math. And yes, thats needed to maintain fast speeds on a bigger printer.

Quality components are expensive, even the PSU. Find me a not crap PSU at 24v around 180w for 20euro? Check how much costs the Tridonic LCU 180W 24V SR TOP i am using in my build...

magicniner
03-05-2017, 10:10 AM
I'm a "material removal" kind of guy but I do fancy a fiddle with 3D printing, there are things I could usefully make where tensile strength and surface finish aren't major issues but I'd prefer to buy a complete kit to play with initially as time is something of which I don't have much spare.
I'd welcome suggestions based on actual experience, including things to avoid.
I'm thinking that if I go for something with a full aluminium frame I will at least have a base worth improving upon at a later date,

- Nick

Robin Hewitt
03-05-2017, 11:27 AM
there are things I could usefully make where tensile strength and surface finish aren't major issues

Do it!

I have 1400 faulty circuit boards that need a very precise trim to put them right. It was so easy to make a Dremel attachment and regain control of a tricky situation. The M19 thread for the Dremel nose had to go on a separate piece to get the grain right. Print time around 4 hours...

21496

Boyan Silyavski
03-05-2017, 12:24 PM
I'm a "material removal" kind of guy but I do fancy a fiddle with 3D printing, there are things I could usefully make where tensile strength and surface finish aren't major issues but I'd prefer to buy a complete kit to play with initially as time is something of which I don't have much spare.
I'd welcome suggestions based on actual experience, including things to avoid.
I'm thinking that if I go for something with a full aluminium frame I will at least have a base worth improving upon at a later date,

- Nick

The Prusa MK2 mechanically made me laugh when i received it, but in reality it prints 24h non stop without a glitch. Its a well thought printer, but cheap to make printer. Its growling and making noise 10x as much as my CNC makes but it works and prints nicely. I could sit down and change that design to Hiwin rails, but thats their job to do, not mine, so i will not do it.

I dont know of a well thought printer thats mechanically sound. Maybe the Raise3d. What i dont like of that type of printers is that taking off the ready piece from the bed will do a lot of twisting and bending of all the frame and bed.

Again -- best deal for the money is the Steel Prusa from what i see around for cheap. Due to the quality components used. The electronics i mean.

Robin Hewitt
03-05-2017, 01:50 PM
21504

The only way to tell is by extreme close up. This is 0.2mm layers of ABS Plus on a printer that has the folded steel frame and profile rails.

Show is what you've got :beer:

komatias
03-05-2017, 02:22 PM
I dont know of a well thought printer thats mechanically sound. Maybe the Raise3d. What i dont like of that type of printers is that taking off the ready piece from the bed will do a lot of twisting and bending of all the frame and bed.



The Raise3D pack a lot of tech in a very well priced package and prints like a dream. Most of the larger machines will allow you to remove the printer bed, all you need to do then is stick it in the freezer for a few minutes and the print pops off.

Boyan Silyavski
04-05-2017, 04:46 PM
The Raise3D pack a lot of tech in a very well priced package and prints like a dream. Most of the larger machines will allow you to remove the printer bed, all you need to do then is stick it in the freezer for a few minutes and the print pops off.

Agree with that. What i said was a simplification of the facts. Its handy to have a couple of top plates to change. Furthermore i remember somebody proved that the glass on top of aluminum is not a problem and will not lead to losses and cold spots. Still, if one forgets or learns,prints flat PETG part - could trash the glass. Also plate could be PEI, which will eliminate said problem, but will be more expensive to have a couple of them so thick.

magicniner
05-05-2017, 02:08 PM
I've ordered a kit from a UK supplier, it's a 6mm aluminium frame rather than acrylic so hopefully it should be at least a decent starting point :D

- Nick

m_c
05-05-2017, 10:39 PM
Nick, what kit have you ordered?

I'm in a similar situation. I'd like a 3D printer, as it would be handy for a few odds and ends, but I don't really have the time to research/build/learn/tweak a 3D printer.

magicniner
06-05-2017, 12:56 PM
It's the one from Factory 3D in Newcastle-upon-Tyne ( http://factory3d.co.uk/ ). I'm sure there will be bits that I re-make, replace or re-engineer as I go along but I really like the idea of an aluminium main frame and a UK manufactured kit.

- Nick

m_c
07-05-2017, 12:13 AM
That looks like quite a good kit. It'll be good to see how you get on with it, and what you mod along the way.

Desertboy
07-05-2017, 02:16 AM
I finally got my Graber I3 frame from Ukraine took about a month to arrive. I'm going to beef it up with metal corner brackets and modify it to take 8mm lead screws for the z axis instead of 5mm threaded bar.

21535

Anyone with access to a cnc could easily make their own Prusa style frame from ply, mdf or aluminium.

I am upgrading a reprap mendal, will have to cut 4 of the smooth rods to fit. Not looking forward to cutting the stainless steel z axis rods.

I need to get an lcd for my ramps at some point but the cnc build is killing me financially so it can wait it's no hassle to print from my laptop.

One thing if using windows you have to make sure automatic updates are off, power saving and anything that might put the pc to sleep or reboot it must be disabled. In Linux this is not so much an issue but you can configure a windows pc fine. I use a windows pc for timelapse that's been on for months with no issues.

I'm going to plug the printer into a 1kw UPS (Just because I have one spare) so will have a little extra protection but not essential.

magicniner
07-05-2017, 02:34 AM
I'm going to beef it up with metal corner brackets .

Would you be better with more traditional methods for a wood frame?
Wood corner braces bonded in place with Cascamite, or even Gorilla Glue might provide more rigid triangulation over a larger area than metal brackets.
Pinned and glued is almost always superior to metal brackets and bolts and screws with structural wood projects.

- Nick

Desertboy
07-05-2017, 02:41 AM
You're right of course, I'll put the frame together first how it's meant to be assembled and then play it by ear if I feel it's not strong enough.

magicniner
09-05-2017, 01:34 AM
That looks like quite a good kit. It'll be good to see how you get on with it, and what you mod along the way.

Shipping from Factory 3D was quick, I ordered on Friday and it was delivered at lunch time today.
Packing is very good with plenty of padding where required and individually packed sets of parts for each assembly stage covered in the instructions.
The instructions are clear and easy to follow and everything goes together with little drama.
I've finished the build but won't have chance for power up and testing until later in the week,

21580

- Nick

Desertboy
09-05-2017, 07:40 AM
Looks a nice Prusa, wondered what was going on with the extruder until I realised it was a mirror lol.

You have the mk2 heated bed it takes ages to heat up for ABS but for PLA it's pretty quick. I recommend getting some cork board to insulate under the heated bed, this will really help with heating up times. Another solution is to change to the mk3 aluminium heated bed and power it with 24v but this is more hassle as if you send 24v to the ramps board without modifying the ramps first it will fry the arduino but there are a few ways around this.

If you use the mk3 and 24v heat up times to 110c are ~ 2minutes, if you use the mk3 at 12v you will see no difference in heat up times at all. The Mk3 also has the advantage that being aluminium you can use a cheap inductive sensor. But I bet you already have autoleveling.

m_c
09-05-2017, 10:41 AM
Looks good.
Think that will be on my list for sometime after the summer.

cropwell
09-05-2017, 02:16 PM
I have had a Wanhao Duplicator 4S for three years now and it still performs well. It is difficult to get 3D prints to dimensional accuracy due to spread. Sometimes the only way is guesstimation. For general purpose though, it is OK.

The main problem, I have found, is bed adhesion. It is a bit of a titser when a corner lifts. I have tried different bed temperatures and bed substrates (Kapton tape, masking tape, ABS washes etc) The current one giving me some success is frosted glass with an ABS wash (thin solution of ABS in Methyl Ethyl Ketone or Acetone (Dimethyl ketone). I now run the bed at 110 degC for ABS and I don't print with anything else.

I bought the steel framed model for rigidity and I feel it was a wise decision. The second extruder has hardly been used, I have never seen much necessity for two colour prints.

I am about to rebuild the RH extruder as there is wear on the feed gear and the plastic frame has a pear shaped hole where the filament feeds, which makes it awkward to change filament.

I always print from SD cards as I can turn everything else off in my den and go to bed, leaving the machine chugging away (all night sometimes).

One last point :- Sam Courtenay, the Agent for Wanhao in UK is one of the most helpful people I know in 3D printing, sending me related parts, in case they were needed, when I only ordered and paid for the primary bit I needed.

Cheers,

Rob

magicniner
09-05-2017, 06:29 PM
Looks good.
Think that will be on my list for sometime after the summer.

I'm impressed with many aspects of the engineering, including the all metal Mk8 extruder unit, my first print was the first successful part ;-)

magicniner
09-05-2017, 11:36 PM
My second print with the Factory 3D

21602

I don't know enough about what I'm doing yet to be fiddling with any settings, this is just with all the defaults as it came out of the box ;-)

Desertboy
10-05-2017, 08:44 AM
I'm impressed with many aspects of the engineering, including the all metal Mk8 extruder unit, my first print was the first successful part ;-)

The extruder is the one thing I'm not changing from the mendel but I did change to an e3d clone hotend (Proper all metal) a while ago so I could print more exotic materials which I haven't tried. I did eye up the all metal mk8 but I have so many things to spend money on that the printer is low down on priorities lol.

Very nice prints ;)

Desertboy
15-05-2017, 08:41 AM
Got my frame last week so yesterday I started to strip down my mendel and rebuild in the plywood frame. Immediately there were issues lol but nothing too severe got about 1/2 done.

Issues were
1. No build manual, so we built using their photo as a reference, only after we mostly built it up did we discover their reference photo is incorrect lol (Or they reversed a part in laser cutting) the power supply would be on the outside of the frame lol the way they show it built.
This is the picture they supply
21639

And this is the correct way (See how the power supply mount is orientated)
21640

If I tried to fit it the way they picture the power supply is mounts are in the wrong place and the power supply would be on the outside.

had to flip both the back plate and bottom 180

2. It's built for 5mm threaded bar for the z axis. I'm using 8mm lead screws needs some modification for it to fit.

3. My extruder needs modifying to fit with the inductive sensor

4. Someone borrowed my soldering iron last week and I forgot to get it back will do today, this is needed so I can wire up my mk3 bed so the inductive sensor will work.


I have 2 inductive sensors one works at 5v but the one that is 12v only has a better range that can detect the aluminium plate through a mirror for autolevelling. Although the plan is to minimise autolevelling by probing the bed then adjusting until as flat as possible in the first place.

I already know the mods I want to make when I get my cnc machine working.

I figure I don't need anti back lash nuts on the z axis as gravity will do the same job but we shall see it will be easy enough to retrofit.

Desertboy
20-05-2017, 08:25 PM
Bastard 3 pieces are wrong I've contacted them but they are in Ukraine and took a month to get printer in first place very annoying I might need to finish my cnc router first before I can finish this :(

I might try printing to scale and sticking the correct outline to 6mm ply and cutting out with a jigsaw.

My K
21738

and 2 L's are wrong
21739

they should look like this
21740

alboy
21-05-2017, 12:35 AM
I have had a Wanhao Duplicator 4S for three years now and it still performs well. It is difficult to get 3D prints to dimensional accuracy due to spread. Sometimes the only way is guesstimation. For general purpose though, it is OK.

The main problem, I have found, is bed adhesion. It is a bit of a titser when a corner lifts. I have tried different bed temperatures and bed substrates (Kapton tape, masking tape, ABS washes etc) The current one giving me some success is frosted glass with an ABS wash (thin solution of ABS in Methyl Ethyl Ketone or Acetone (Dimethyl ketone). I now run the bed at 110 degC for ABS and I don't print with anything else.

I bought the steel framed model for rigidity and I feel it was a wise decision. The second extruder has hardly been used, I have never seen much necessity for two colour prints.

I am about to rebuild the RH extruder as there is wear on the feed gear and the plastic frame has a pear shaped hole where the filament feeds, which makes it awkward to change filament.

I always print from SD cards as I can turn everything else off in my den and go to bed, leaving the machine chugging away (all night sometimes).

One last point :- Sam Courtenay, the Agent for Wanhao in UK is one of the most helpful people I know in 3D printing, sending me related parts, in case they were needed, when I only ordered and paid for the primary bit I needed.

Cheers,

Rob

i have a wanhao duplicator as well been in constant use for months now, no problems other than sometimes the pc loses connection but printing from the memory card is a doddle anyway, It is the steel framed one and it came pre assembled just had to bolt the gantry on. Was printing within 30 mins of opening the box and is a very accurate machine, never had any problems with bed adhesion on the stock bed. Wanhoa have good support and there are plenty of user groups around as well. Takes a little while to learn the nuances of the software but had some great results.
I think the machine was 280 and delivered within a few days. Bought it of amazon.

Desertboy
21-05-2017, 06:02 AM
They responded and are sending me 3 replacement pieces so will all be good.