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Desertboy
24-04-2017, 03:49 PM
Hi, welcome to my first cnc milling machine build (Although not my last I hope) I have a little experience with cnc as I built and use a reprap, I'm just upgrading it from a mendal to a I3 graber when the frame ever arrives from the Ukraine but if you have a cnc machine you can make your own for a lot cheaper. I've been able to score quite a few bits over the last 6 months for nothing except my time and a lot of hard work lol.

I set myself some ambitious goals for my first build.

1. 120cm*60cm work area (Or close as I can get) ***plan has changed 120cm*80cm***
2. Capable of milling aluminium, ply and mdf
3. Be better than if I bought an Xcarve
4. Build it for almost no money although I will if I have to I hope to build this for under £300, I think the spindle will be the most expensive thing as I can't reclaim one of them.
5. Work on Arduino or Raspberry Pi electronics, Arduino is better as I have a spare one and have been using it with cheapo stepper drivers to test the nema motors I recover.

I haven't cad the machine just winging it but will cad the mounting plates for the bearings and the z axis.

21467 Supported rail 25mm I've now cut it down to 2*1.4m lengths for the Y and 1*70cm length for the X so will only have one support on the x which does worry me but the supported rail was free so it's being used, price for 8 bearings from china was £42 delivered through ebay.com (Was more expensive on ebay.co.uk).

21468 Aluminium extrusion 9cm*4.5cm heavy duty profile I have another 2 lengths this long with different profile they are even more chunky and wider) all the lengths are 3.5-3.6m. I also have the t nuts, bolts, angles etc. Price £0 but 1 days very very hard work removing them from the machine. I was allowed to keep em for free as I saved them 1 days work doing it themselves. There was a lot of toolsteel, tool aluminium on that machine.

21469 I have 2 of these one with stepper will grab a pic later. The motor is crazy small for this thing, far too heavy for a z axis as is but did consider selling them on ebay or converting one to a z axis by stripping it down, weld a frame out of steel box section and remount everything in a smaller profile scrapping the 4cm solid aluminium lol. They weigh over 20kg at moment. Would be excellent start to a mini milling machine on it's own as a moving bed but if I do rebuild one as a z axis put a proper nema 23 on it. These cost me a day's pay I flipped a coin with the gaffer over these heads I got them free tails he docked me a day's pay to keep them and I lost lol. Not including this in build cost though yet as I might not use them.

I have 2 nema 23's that work at the moment have powered them up with a ramps 1.4, steppers and ardunio combo one of them makes a whining noise (It's the bigger one) but I think this might be related to 12v from the ramps board at moment. I intend to convert the ramps board to 24v (Lots on reprap forums about this). I bought the cheapest combo of ramps, steppers and arduino on ebay, just over a £10 all in. I expect to have to change some of the capacitors but the mosfets don't matter. So will be using the x carve software at start but will look into the alternatives, I like the arduino though because it's cheap ;)

I've sent the aluminium for cutting today so tomorrow I can pick it up and assemble the frame and fit both the y axis supported rails and the single x axis one but my bearings were only shipped from China this morning so can't do much more on the frame until it comes will be looking for more nema motors as I want a matched pair on the y axis. Always looking for stuff of course so plans might change if I come across bigger sildes, ballscrews, etc. I can start on the Z axis as well and I should probably get a spindle sorted if going to order from China.

My intention over the next 6 months is to collect enough to build a proper 8*4 one which I'll spend a lot more money on a decent spindle.

I intend to belt drive the X&Y I think it's called belt an pinion that I want to use but not sure how I do it yet. I expect this build to take me 4-6 weeks to complete to me carving but who knows.

Total cost so far is £62 including cutting the aluminium, a few days of hard work and swearing and a lot of spanners, alan keys and torx have been snapped along the way.

Wish me luck

Desertboy
25-04-2017, 04:02 PM
21471 I made last minute design change it's now going to have a working area (Hopefully) of 1.2m*0.8m also trying to sort 2 slides for the other axis. The frame you see the long bits are 150cm and the short lengths are 100cm, width of extrusion is 4.5cm*9cm (It's the heavy duty profile).

Not for the first time I'm waiting on China post lol but at moment seems really good got arduino mega in 11 days, capacitive sensor took 14 days and my heated bed for the 3d printer was 16 days so seems a good time to order.

I am going to reinforce with steel angles before I put it together properly so the corners are more for alignment than anything else, I have considered having the frame welded I can get it done free ;)]

Just can't afford it at moment but eyeing up ballscrews in case I can sell a kidney ;) so we're still looking at belt drive at moment which works well as all my nema 23's have cogs permanently mounted on them.

I will buy a new nema 23 for the z axis (Unless I find one with a shaft) so I can mount it easily to the ballscrew.

I realise I can recover proper stepper drivers 4amp+ from the machines so will upgrade the drivers as and when but (If I can) will still use an Arduino to drive them.

Desertboy
28-04-2017, 10:44 PM
Already budget is out the window ha ha ha.

I bought a pair of 1.5m of linear rails with 4 blocks and a 1.4m ballscrew with couplings, mounts, etc.

Spend is ~£250 now but will need to buy 2 900mm ballscrews for the x axis and need to sort z axis but I think I can do that cheap.

That will then leave a router/milling spindle but lol lets get the X,Y & Z working.

Desertboy
29-04-2017, 09:07 AM
Bought 2 1m ballscrews now so I have

A strong aluminium frame 1.6m*1m made with heavy duty profile
2 supported rail 25mm slides (With new bearings) will cut to 100cm
2 linear rails with sliding blocks (HWin) 1500mm long with 4 blocks
1 Ballscrew 1400mm long RM1605
2 ballscrews 1000mm RM1604
The fittings for the ballscrews, motor couplings, etc.
Most of a z axis (25mm smooth rod & bearings, 20mm ground ballscrew travel 20cm) I will need to decide how much travel I need and cut down and machine to fit.
2 nema 23 motors (I have these working)
Arduino Uno, CNC shield
Nema 23 mounting plates
Probably more stuff


The budget has been taken outside like old yellow and a bullet has gone in it's head. I am now working on a budget that I bought an xcarve (Which I was seriously considering but in the end decided I could build something a lot better for a lot less and also the satisfaction of building your own and of course I have a lot more wiggle room for upgrading.

Now is the waiting game as I ordered cheap ballscrews from China to get it working (C7) this will be fine I'm sure for my first cnc. When I get some cash in (I already have some jobs for the cnc I outsource at moment.) I will upgrade the ballscrews, cover the frame in 5mm steel (The Y axis will get only 3mm to keep weight down). I also will swap the 2nd hand supported rail for new from zapp.

I now need a spindle but totally wiped myself out financially.

I have some work for this machine so when it does work I will use the money made to upgrade the machine (Looking at slides, ballscrews and electronics also encase frame in steel) and I need to build an 8*4 which will be for wood based products only.

Greeny
29-04-2017, 12:24 PM
Looking like you're powering forward with the parts. She'll be cutting in no time ��

1605 &1604 ballscrews might be problematic though.
You're going to have to gear them to spin very quickly to get any reasonable feeds for cutting mdf/wood.
You may experience problems with whip:
On the 1605 1400mm the calculated critical speed is about 1000rpm which equates to 5m /minute.
On the 1604 1000mm the calculated critical speed is about 2000rpm which equates to 8m /minute.

You may be happy with those feeds or may able to exceed the critical speeds, but just wanted to highlight it.


Cheers

Desertboy
29-04-2017, 12:41 PM
Hi Greeny thanks for the reply,

This is my first CNC so making it up as I go along. I have a job to do with this machine (At moment I sub contract but am tied into a contract so have 3 months to finish this if I choose to fullfill it myself.) when it's done I intend to build an 8*4 rack and pinion machine for ply and beef this up to do harder materials. Mostly aluminium but occasionally a steel bracket (Mostly building more machines for me personally). I'm somewhere between home user and pro but I get a real kick out building it and am interested in the automation ;)

Like everyone on here I want at least 6 machines in the end 5 of them I will build ;)

3d printer (Already have)
cnc miller/router
cnc router 8*4
laser cutter
vacuum former (Have vacuum pump and air tank)
decent vertical wall saw

Greeny
29-04-2017, 01:21 PM
Hi Desertboy,

Sounds good.
All the best with your build, will be watching with interest.

Cheers

Desertboy
29-04-2017, 03:42 PM
Greeny out of interest how would you have drive this?

Also for 8*4 how would you drive it? I was thinking R&P for 8*4.

Originally I was going to try and drive this belt and pinion but I knew I was building something special so ballscrews seemed the only choice I want a very capable machine and I'll build the 8*4 for speed and production as 90% will be ply/mdf style products or real wood.

Greeny
29-04-2017, 05:46 PM
Although i have a lot of experience using big cnc machines, I don't really have the building experience to offer good advice,
but as long as you bear that in mind here's what i would be looking into if i was thinking about a machine that size.

A ballscrew for the 4ft axis , either a 2010 or 2020. Nema 23 3nm.
The 8ft axis probably 2510 or 2520 fixed ballscrew with 2x rotating ballnuts and 2x nema23.
I would personally only consider R&P if budget can't stretch to rotating ballnuts as they are pricey.

Here's a few relevant threads you might like to peruse.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/3340-Rotating-Ballnut-design-ideas/page14
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10219-fresh-start-8x4-build
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10865-Big-ish-router-concept-review

Hopefully someone with more building experience will chip in.
Cheers

Desertboy
02-05-2017, 09:02 PM
China post is working efficiently at the moment the bearings came! 11 days from ordering! And we had no post since Friday so might have been quicker!
21491

They slide super smooth after adjustment very happy with them making me rethink the supported rail for a larger machine as it's a lot cheaper than hiwin style rail and the accuracy will be fine for my purpose.


Hopefully the ballscrews which only went out today will be as quick ;) They will get import tax I'm sure. I've ordered a lot from china recently and a few things were over the limit but just but these screws are over £250 so bastards will screw me.

My 1.5m Hiwin rails came as well today ;) (Like xmas but better because it's stuff I actually want) I think the Hiwin rails are too small 15mm for the purpose but they were cheap and a decent length 1500mm with 4 carriages so I've gone with them to get it working and will get something more suitable in the near future. Will work exclusive wood based products until I change these and if I really need to do aluminium just doing it very slowly with a low cut height.
21490

I'm already thinking though I should have spent another £150 on top and got 2 1.5m supported rails as I have 8 bearing blocks and the supported rail is stupid strong. (The printer I took it off have a sliding carriage that was over 400kg's and powered by a puny nema 23 lol.)

Desertboy
03-05-2017, 11:05 AM
I did some basic cad so I can work out the mounting plates so I can either manufacture them myself or get them manufactured but unfortunately my decent computer is at work at moment so had to use the old laptop which doesn't support decent quality renders so this is the basic rendering made everything different colours to make it easy to see what's going on.

Need to add the ballscrews in of course and motor mounts but this laptop is so slow, will worry about z axis when I've actually build it ;)

Glad I started to cad out as I already see a few things I should tweak winging it was a stupid idea lol.

21495

Desertboy
03-05-2017, 06:59 PM
Eyeing up cheap ass T6600 drivers and breakout board for control instead of the arduino but maybe I should slum it with the arduino for now and get a better controller. Certainly Arduino, cnc shield and Polou drivers will be enough to test the machine.

Desertboy
05-05-2017, 08:47 AM
I think I will make custom T nuts so I can offset the hole to align with the Supported rail mounts to ease mounting.

21527

I think me and my friend can make them with his router table but I will probably have them cnc milled to make my life easy to get everything straight.

The other choice is have the extrusion drilled through accurately and then bolt through the extrusion. This might be cheaper BUT I intend to swap the supported rail for new rail at some point and the rail I have now has a different (Wider) mount to standard supported rail. So I end up with holes where I don't want them.

Desertboy
07-05-2017, 03:49 PM
I mixed up my understanding of milling and router machines so this is in the wrong place but hey hoe ;)


Starting work on my z axis ;)
21550

Which means I'm is stripping so I can sort rebuilding this. Getting the bearings out will be fun ;) I do want to reuse these as they be far better quality than anything I would buy.

I need to get a proper plan for rebuilding this sorted as it's obviously very important lol.

Desertboy
07-05-2017, 04:30 PM
Should I use 3 bearing blocks instead of 2? For the supported rail, I had a lucky find on the aluminium extrusion side which means I can build it with 1.2m supported rails but only 1m ballscrew (actual travel ~85cm) so I can easily put 3 bearings per slide without affecting travel.

Desertboy
13-05-2017, 01:36 PM
21620

Ballscrews are in Standstead ;) so hopefully Monday they will arrive although we shall see how much import tax we get.

Tracking shows they did nothing for a week and then in 2 days it's here I wonder in future if I can pay a little extra for Fedex not to sit on it for a week lol.

I ordered them on the 28th took a week for the Chinese to organise fedex then a week for fedex to collect lol and then air mail in 2 days without the 14 days of mucking about they would have been super quick.

I ordered other stuff from china since that came quicker in the normal ems post lol.

Desertboy
18-05-2017, 12:27 PM
Ballscrews came ;) So Saturday will be play day and then Sunday cad day and Monday start getting the plates made for mounting everything.

Ballscrews were packed extremely well with plywood to keep them straight very happy with purchase and NO IMPORT TAX!!! So very happy.

Desertboy
19-05-2017, 03:47 PM
Ordered 2 nema 23 1.9nm motors, got m4 tee nuts for the 15mm Hiwin's (This was annoying as I have a couple of hundred M5's) and ordered A2 M4 machine screws to mount the Hiwin's as screwfix and toolstation don't have the right size I hope I got it right lol but £2 I can afford to order more if not.

Next make mounting plate, then back down KJN to cut my axis with the Z on it then make the z axis/mount I'm going to make the mount for the z axis directly into the z axis.

Still need that spindle but hopefully next week I can afford to order.

At moment I've got a lot of bits for a cnc machine so I need to turn it from bits into the base of an actual machine lol.

I'm predicting the cost with spindle for everything to be ~£800 so still well under my "X carve" budget but well over my lets make it for free lol.

Desertboy
19-05-2017, 05:44 PM
I suppose I should buy some microswitches eyeing up the Sanwa's (These are proper arcade microswitchs) figure it's worth spending a bit more for repeatability I found cheap microswithces on my 3d printer to be less than perfect lol.
https://www.arcadeworlduk.com/products/sanwa-ms-o-3-microswitch-with-4-8mm-terminals.html

I might use Inductive sensors instead though but that takes some thinking about orientation so I can use the aluminium frame to home the cnc.

I find the Carlsberg export is essential to any machine build lol especially on a Friday night ;)21737

21734
21735

The ballscrews were packaged properly
21736

I love how tight the hiwin rails are (I paid £100 for 4 blocks, 1500mm long 2 rails) they're lovely to slide but I do worry 15mm is too flimsy.

Zeeflyboy
23-05-2017, 03:01 AM
I did some basic cad so I can work out the mounting plates so I can either manufacture them myself or get them manufactured but unfortunately my decent computer is at work at moment so had to use the old laptop which doesn't support decent quality renders so this is the basic rendering made everything different colours to make it easy to see what's going on.

Need to add the ballscrews in of course and motor mounts but this laptop is so slow, will worry about z axis when I've actually build it ;)

Glad I started to cad out as I already see a few things I should tweak winging it was a stupid idea lol.

21495

Seems it would be better to built the gantry spanning the shorter width of the machine? Any particular reason you are building it that way around?

Gantry tends to be the weak point in terms of allowing flex, the shorter the span the more rigid it will be for any given thickness/extrusion type.

Desertboy
23-05-2017, 10:42 AM
Seems it would be better to built the gantry spanning the shorter width of the machine? Any particular reason you are building it that way around?

Gantry tends to be the weak point in terms of allowing flex, the shorter the span the more rigid it will be for any given thickness/extrusion type.

Morning,
There's some logic in my madness lol I have 2 1.3m long supported rails 25mm and 2 1.5m 15mm hiwin with 4 carriages. The 25mm supported rail can handle very high load I know this because I recovered the rail from a commercial printer (I've bought new bearings all round) and it was originally carrying a very heavy gantry in the 100's of kg's and was lovely and smooth to move. The 15mm hiwin are probably nowhere near as strong so I decided that the 25mm supported rail should carry the most weight (Gantry and Z axis) and the Hiwin only carry the z axis.

I'm committed to making the long axis the gantry as I only have 1 1.4m ballscrew and 2 1m ballscrews.

The Gantry will be made from Heavy duty 100mm*50mm profile which I may or may not enclose in angle steel to strengthen it up.

I want to be able to process wood at a decent speed and occasionally aluminium reduced feed rate is fine and I have compressed air on tap in almost unlimited quantities during work hours.

I've had a score of more chunkier aluminium for the frame (I won't use for gantry it would eat too much travel) so the frame will be different and bit more square. I was going to cut down the supported rails to 1m but not going to do that now. Will update the model when I get the extrusion (Tomorrow hopefully I need to go cut it out a machine). By eye it looks like it's 9*13.5cm (2*3)

Zeeflyboy
23-05-2017, 11:48 AM
Fair enough, just curious.

I don't think a 100x50 will be sufficient for really good results in alu at 1.5m span, I would personally definitely consider what options you have for beefing it up.

Just out of interest, for science n'all, try clamping each end of the profile and with a dial gauge measure the deflection in the middle when you press against it. I'm betting you can get a fairly significant deflection with moderate force.

Desertboy
23-05-2017, 12:37 PM
Fair enough, just curious.

I don't think a 100x50 will be sufficient for really good results in alu at 1.5m span, I would personally definitely consider what options you have for beefing it up.

Just out of interest, for science n'all, try clamping each end of the profile and with a dial gauge measure the deflection in the middle when you press against it. I'm betting you can get a fairly significant deflection with moderate force.

I was thinking something like this
http://www.steelexpress.co.uk/structuralsteel/angles.html

100*65 7mm

fitted like this
21748

Would add 14.2kg's + nuts & bolts to the gantry weight.

Zeeflyboy
23-05-2017, 12:44 PM
That would no doubt help... maybe flip it around so you can still use your extrusion slots for mounting the rails (assuming that was your plan?).

Best option I think would probably be to use the steel as the mounting face and look into the self levelling epoxy method of getting a flat surface, but that may or may not fit in with your budget option. If not going that route, the question becomes which is the more precise mounting surface in terms of flatness - the steel or the aluminium.

Desertboy
23-05-2017, 03:01 PM
That would no doubt help... maybe flip it around so you can still use your extrusion slots for mounting the rails (assuming that was your plan?).

Best option I think would probably be to use the steel as the mounting face and look into the self levelling epoxy method of getting a flat surface, but that may or may not fit in with your budget option. If not going that route, the question becomes which is the more precise mounting surface in terms of flatness - the steel or the aluminium.

It would be convenient to use the slots to mount the rails so maybe I should spin it round for now. I intend to upgrade or rebuild the machine what's most important is to get it working reasonable now and I will work out if it's better to start again or upgrade.

I really want 8*4 but I don't need it I actually need 4*2 (1/4 sheet) but I will get 1/3 sheet so happy with that.

Interesting with the self levelling epoxy will investigate but my supported rail and ballscrews on the bottom axis will be bolted into the extrusion directly.

Desertboy
26-05-2017, 07:59 AM
Since I want to do aluminium would this be suitable
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-Inch-Air-Line-Lubricator-for-Air-Compressors-Air-Tools-Oiler-/282448243084?hash=item41c33a298c:g:kq0AAOSwzqFZAIz b

paired with a compressed air solenoid to clear the chips?

Was having issues getting my motor shaft to align with my ballscrew I'm around 0.5mm out. My friend checked my couplings out and they're flexible couplings but still going to try and get the motor shaft aligned. but they do seem to work fine.

Zeeflyboy
26-05-2017, 12:18 PM
Bit confused about what you are asking, what you linked to is literally just an inert container designed to hold oil and add it to a compressed air system to lubricate air tools.


You need a compressor, regulator (most compressors will have the regulator), an on/off switch (whether electronic solenoid or manual), and a nozzle. If you want mist, then really the best way to do it you will need two lines, one supplying coolant and one supplying air, ideally at different pressures (the coolant line only needs a very low pressure in my experience) and a mist coolant unit on the machine.

What you linked to wouldn't really be much use imo, the tank capacity is tiny - I use a 1 litre swimming pool filter container.

Desertboy
26-05-2017, 12:53 PM
Bit confused about what you are asking, what you linked to is literally just an inert container designed to hold oil and add it to a compressed air system to lubricate air tools.


You need a compressor, regulator (most compressors will have the regulator), an on/off switch (whether electronic solenoid or manual), and a nozzle. If you want mist, then really the best way to do it you will need two lines, one supplying coolant and one supplying air, ideally at different pressures (the coolant line only needs a very low pressure in my experience) and a mist coolant unit on the machine.

What you linked to wouldn't really be much use imo, the tank capacity is tiny - I use a 1 litre swimming pool filter container.

Yes I want mist! I will want to mill aluminium to the best quality I can do given the limitations of my machine. I will have the machine in an industrial unit which has a compressor airline point next to the machine which for my purposes can be considered always on with more capacity than I could ever need.

Do you have a pic of how you linked yours up?

I'm stalled until my mate at the scrap yard moves a printer (It's on top of a heap) for me so I can get the aluminium extrusion out AND 20-25mm twin hiwin style rail with carriages only short travel but I'm thinking for my Z axis.

The extrusion is T slot (Compatible with what I have now) It's 18cm*9cm (4 slots*2 slots) 6ft lengths which I'm going to use for mounting the supported rail and ballscrews on.

I'm going to cad it out in a minute but will make it a lot easier for me to build.

Zeeflyboy
26-05-2017, 12:55 PM
Actually as luck would have it I did recently post some pics here:

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10658-El-Beast-Initial-design-phase-comments-and-critique-welcomed%21?p=91180#post91180

Desertboy
26-05-2017, 01:24 PM
Actually as luck would have it I did recently post some pics here:

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10658-El-Beast-Initial-design-phase-comments-and-critique-welcomed%21?p=91180#post91180

Lovely setup ;)

How thick are you mounting plates 21780

Once I get the extrusion together and mount the SBR and ballscrews I need to make mine which I'm so not looking forward to lol.

Zeeflyboy
26-05-2017, 03:08 PM
A fairly skinny 15mm if i remember correctly.... the new machine I'm building has 25mm.

I would go with 20mm as a minimum personally.

Desertboy
29-05-2017, 05:22 AM
20mm I will heed that advice ;)
21797

I will use 2 of these for my z axis slides and a 20mm ground ballscrew. I have another 2 of these coming as well not sure what I will do with them but maybe make a spare z axis as one of my first projects ;)

just playing with the gantry at moment but I do wonder if I can fit the gantry like this?
21798
I would worry that the ballscrew is balanced properly I would think the ballscrew needs to go dead centre of the slides? I have come up with 3 choices for the gantry

1. Mount it like pictured with ballscrew at top, hiwin sideways on
2. Double up the extrusion so I use 2 pieces one on top of the other then the ballscrew can go in the middle with hiwin either side.
3. Put the Hiwin on the top and bottom of the gantry and have the ballscrew sideways on. This is my favorite choice but added complexity in the z axis mount. I would think this would also keep the slides cleaner orientated this way.

Or I do have this
21799

But would rather not cut it if I can as it's 3.5m length and I have 2 5 ft lenghts so I only need 1 more and I can build a frame with working area just over 8*4.

Was worried as the bearing was not sitting straight on the supported rail but tried a different bearing and all is good then realised someone has been playing with my bearing (Joys of sharing workshop space with my dad's monkeys as I call them) and tightened the grubscrew.
21800

Something I considered was filling the cavities inside the gantry aluminium extrusion with epoxy resin something that's stronger than steel but lighter have a friend who knows a lot more about epoxy's and has access to stuff I couldn't get easily so will have to have a chat with him.

Desertboy
31-05-2017, 08:41 AM
Hopefully I can recover my extra extrusion today as I would like to start moving the project into the build phase ;)
21811

Need to get the ballscrew fitted so I can take measurements for the plates, couldn't find a decent cad model.

Desertboy
31-05-2017, 03:05 PM
Wanker guy had sold the machine so I can't get the extrusion :(

As it happened the Hiwin style slides were siezed and the ballscrews looked worse for wear to so I was only interested in the extrusion but gutted.

At least I know now so I will continue with original plan and bolt the SBR25 on sideways, no excuse not to start assembly now (Well need to wait for the A2 bolts to arrive but tomorrow) so I can measure up and start to think about the mounting plates.
21816

Lesson learnt though next time strip the machine the day it arrives lol.

Desertboy
02-06-2017, 06:16 PM
21821
one dodgy bearing so far not checked them all yet but buy the cheapest chinese bearings you can and you're going to get a lemon occasionally lol. I am going to complain see if I can get replacements sent over but I have 5 that are perfect (I haven't checked 2 of them yet) and I only need 4, glad I bought 8 ;) £4.50 delivered for each one I can't complain too much.

If you try to straighten the wonky bearing it binds so it's basically scrap.

I was was very annoyed about losing the aluminium extrusion but today I had a score so you win some you lose some ;)

21822

So got the stop button sorted & some flexible pipe (I think is for compressed air), I also got 2 very strong steel bases (2 legs per base with adjustable nylon feet) from a conveyor belt style machine to mount my machine one, price was free ;)

And lastly my box of freebie t nuts, bolts, corners
21823
Got another box full to the top somewhere but it's buried.

Ironically I haven't got enough bolts and T nuts as I need M4 and M5 T nuts (Everything I have is M6 or M8) and my M6 bolts are too long to fit the track but perfect for the ballscrew mounts.

I did manage to bolt one of the SBR tracks on today so took a step in right direction and it was a real bastard lol was king of glad I ran out of bolts for the other side but unfortunately I managed to buy some today lol so no excuse.

I have no energy chain or plans on how to fit energy chain, I can recover it for free but it's far too large for my purposes but unsure what size I will need. I was thinking that the water in/out feeds and air feed won't go through the energy chain the air I'll use a black air line from a truck (It feeds a cylinder on the fifth wheel) as I can get them for free and they should be more than up to the job. I will probably just suspend the water and airline feeds roughly in the middle above the cnc with enough slack to move to all extremes comfortably for now.

When this is working need to save up some cash so I can buy my own commercial printers to scrap next time ;) I have a good contact but it's very sporadic then all of a sudden manic a lot like buses lol.

Desertboy
04-06-2017, 01:08 AM
21825 This was a real bastard lol bolting the SBR25 into the aluminium extrusion with T nuts but now both rails are bolted on finally. They are both bolted very tight against the extrusion I'm hoping the extrusion is straight ;)

Also spent a few hours today ripping apart a machine and recovered

A working compressed air solenoid,
One of these http://www.solenoid-valve.world/coils-connectors-other-products/FRL-air-preparation-equipment/NUFR-shako-filter-regulator?gclid=CL62vdHco9QCFXAA0wodbK8FfQ
Quite of a bit of aluminium plate 10 to 20mm thickto play with when the machine works and maybe make motor mounts.
Loads of A2's (I like recovering A2's as it gives me a large range of sizes to try and then I can buy the correct length in new if I don't have enough A2's for the project.)
Loads of push fit air fittings

The best things in life are free lol.

Desertboy
04-06-2017, 04:46 PM
Going to need 2 plates to mount to bearings and ballscrew mount for each side of the gantry.
21838 I had to use some M6 standard bolts for now just to get an idea of how it will work, will be missing one bolt from the mount. The bolts go through the extrusion T slot corners with a washer to space everything out properly.

The angle bracket is only there so I can mark the centre point of the coupling to have nema mounts made properly.
2183921840

I'm thinking of buying some cheap ass T6600 stepper drivers so I can deliver the full 3 amps to my motors (Only at 24v) but I will still use Gbrl and Arduino for now with some creative wiring to the cnc shield.

Desertboy
10-06-2017, 01:05 PM
been taking measurements with some scrap ali I will use the thicker of these piece to make the 2 ballscrew (It's wide enough to cut in 2 and still cover the ballscrew mount) to supported rail mounts like pictured for the bottom axis.
21864

If the triangular bit had been twice as thick and I had 2 of them then that would have been my gantry mount but I guess I need to spend £90 on ecocast instead ;)

The scrap plate, bolts and ballscrew mount lined up perfectly (Pure fluke) which makes taking measurements a lot easier.

Desertboy
12-06-2017, 12:19 PM
Finally worked out how to print to 1:1 scale ;)

When I pumped out to printer it's the correct dimensions, a friend is going to make these parts for me from recovered 6082 aluminium (We like free in case you didn't notice) so I will only need to have the gantry mounts and Z axis mounts CNC'd.

21873

From Left to right
BF12 mounting bracket (4 bigger holes bolt into the t slot extrusion)
Nema 23 mounts to line up with the BF12 mounting brackets for the 2 lower axis (This bolts into 2 rows of extrusion with T nuts)
The last 2 connect the DSG16 ballnut mounts to the gantry mounting plate for drive of the lower axis.

I ordered the Spindle today, so next thing is the Ecocast ;) Toying with going with 25mm thick for the gantry and embedding the extrusion 7mm into the frame.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181806514041?

Think I will get 4 TB6600, use the cnc shield/arduino and a 480w 24v power supply so I can get the full 3 amps out the stepper motors.
21884

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 07:44 AM
I suppose I should start to think about power for the machine, I realise a 13 amp socket is not going to cut it lol.

2.2kw for the spindle
350w for the 24v power supply
100w's for misc
20% leeway

I thought sound this will be ok from a 13amp socket until I realised I need to power a vacuum cleaner at the same time. Also of course I need 1kw to boil the kettle for Tea ;)

So I have 2 choices
1. Run a 2nd 13 amp socket to the machine from the board.
2. Run a dedicated 32amp 5 wire 3 phase socket from the board (This is what I will do) and then tap 1 of the phases with a junction box to power the machine.

Neale
15-06-2017, 09:02 AM
A dedicated supply is obviously the gold-plated solution but I'll think you'll find that pretty much everyone with a similar machine runs the machine off a single 13A socket. I use a 4-way adaptor for control box, inverter, and PC all going back to a single wall socket. No problem at all. Don't be misled by the inverter rating. That's max output power and it's unlikely that you will be pushing it that hard, if ever. Run the vacuum cleaner off a second 13A socket but loading is fine even if it is the same ring. In other words, you could swap a single 13A for a double and still be ok. Even if not a ring and single socket is on a spur, I believe that that should be good for 20A/5KW total load (but would need double socket).

No allowance for kettle in that, of course! Sure it's only 1KW?

Zeeflyboy
15-06-2017, 11:57 AM
In reality your spindle will never pull 2.2kw on a machine with this level of rigidity... most of the time it will be much lower.

Your stepper motors etc also are incredibly unlikely to all pull peak power at the same instant.

I do exactly as neale said... I have everything running off a dual socket (computer, monitor, compressor on one, CNC on second) and i run my vac from another socket (which just so happens to be on a different ring, but would be fine on same ring).

Obviously if you want to give it a beefier supply then go for it, but it's not necessary imo and doesn't really fit with your cheap as chips goals!

Clive S
15-06-2017, 12:38 PM
2. Run a dedicated 32amp 5 wire 3 phase socket from the board (This is what I will do) and then tap 1 of the phases with a junction box to power the machine. Is this then in a commercial environment if so.
You have to be careful with running a second 13A socket from the board and make sure it is on the same phase as the other.
I think there are rules to avoid have rings on different phases close together. Reason being is that although each socket would provide 230V there would be around 415V between the two lives from each socket.

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 03:46 PM
Is this then in a commercial environment if so.
You have to be careful with running a second 13A socket from the board and make sure it is on the same phase as the other.
I think there are rules to avoid have rings on different phases close together. Reason being is that although each socket would provide 230V there would be around 415V between the two lives from each socket.

It's a commercial environment I have plenty of free space on the fuse board to run a new line in I was going to fit a 3 phase 5 wire 32amp socket then tap one of the phases to a junction box and from there to the machine and to 2 plug sockets. I have an electrician on site so he will do it lol although I have actually done it before and he checked it out and said I did it correct ;) Since everything else on site is 3 phase it makes sense to fit a 3 phase socket and of course future proofing as I see 3 phase in my CNC future lol.

I was told if you tap 1 phase of 3 to get 230v mains you mustn't have a load on the other 2 phases and the load should be balanced over all 3 phases.

The fuse box for the unit is unusually large (Hence loads of empty space) because before my dad bought the place it was Kraft foods and they filled it with industrial refrigerators. He had so much fun ripping out the stainless and weighing it in good old days of cash ;)

I have 10+ 3 phase sockets and at least 4 single phase 16 amp sockets if anyone wants one for free, I always cut them off the machines we scrap if they're still mint and 99% of the machines we scrap were plugged into the wall once when installed and unplugged once when removed for scrapping lol.

I have more issues with recovering the SY cable as my Brother is always stealing that for his fridges but I managed to squirrel away 20m's when no one was looking.

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 03:53 PM
Obviously if you want to give it a beefier supply then go for it, but it's not necessary imo and doesn't really fit with your cheap as chips goals!

I have the 3 phase plug, socket (With Isolator) & SY cable (Free of course) so would only need to buy a short length (2m) of 5 wire armoured cabling to the fuse box, luckily where I have the machine the fuse box is the other side of the wall.

My spindle came this morning and when I put it in the spindle mount and weighed them both 6.5kg's add in my z axis and we getting close to 10kg's (Maybe more) on the gantry. So to combat flex I'm toying with pouring 2K epoxy resin into the cavities in the extrusion which I think will increase rigidity considerably whilst being impossible to tell from the outside lol.
21890

I may encase the frame and gantry in angle steel but my worry is finding angle steel that's straight! I would avoid using it on the side where the rails or ballscrews are mounted.

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 04:04 PM
A dedicated supply is obviously the gold-plated solution but I'll think you'll find that pretty much everyone with a similar machine runs the machine off a single 13A socket. I use a 4-way adaptor for control box, inverter, and PC all going back to a single wall socket. No problem at all. Don't be misled by the inverter rating. That's max output power and it's unlikely that you will be pushing it that hard, if ever. Run the vacuum cleaner off a second 13A socket but loading is fine even if it is the same ring. In other words, you could swap a single 13A for a double and still be ok. Even if not a ring and single socket is on a spur, I believe that that should be good for 20A/5KW total load (but would need double socket).

No allowance for kettle in that, of course! Sure it's only 1KW?

Thanks for the advice, this is not in a home so unsure how many sockets are on the ring but if I ever move this to my house this will be a consideration.

I have a caravan kettle, It's single phase but only 750w I just rounded up. It's very annoying lol as it takes ages to boil but it was of course free ;)

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 04:13 PM
I did have a great score today wasn't free in fact cost me £145 4 years ago from ebay.com from Japan but I lost it, it was assumed that it had been binned. I then forgot I bought it lol. Was looking in drawers at work for my missing linear rail and found it was a nice surprise and in my mindset it was free as I had essentially written it off.

A 2nd hand (But mint) THK C3 ground ballscrew with C3 mounts and bearings ~40cm in total length from tip to tip which I think I will use for my Z axis instead. I would have the ballscrew cut down and end machined BUT being C3 I think I would be ruining the accuracy or paying more than the ballscrew is worth to me so I should leave it alone.

Spindle came as well ;)

Clive S
15-06-2017, 05:12 PM
I was told if you tap 1 phase of 3 to get 230v mains you mustn't have a load on the other 2 phases and the load should be balanced over all 3 phases.
This is not true you seem to be contradicting yourself in domestic wiring they only take one phase into the house and the next house would get another phase etc this is so the 3 phases are balanced. The same in a factory the phases need to be balanced as far as possible.

The danger can come in domestic use if a guy runs an extension lead to his neighbours house its possible to get the high voltage in fault conditions

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 05:37 PM
This is not true you seem to be contradicting yourself in domestic wiring they only take one phase into the house and the next house would get another phase etc this is so the 3 phases are balanced. The same in a factory the phases need to be balanced as far as possible.

The danger can come in domestic use if a guy runs an extension lead to his neighbours house its possible to get the high voltage in fault conditions

Thanks for the reply, I actually meant to write
"1 phase of 3 to get 230v mains you mustn't have a load on the other 2 phases otherwise the load will be unbalanced over all 3 phases." What they were stressing to me was that it was ok for the load not be balanced if I used only 1 phase but if I used all 3 phases (Say 3 different single phase circuits) then it should be balanced. But I have no idea if I was fed bollocks lol.

I think I am misunderstanding balanced but I'm also repeating what I was told by an electrician. I was only talking from the POV that I have a 3 phase input to a 5 wire socket and I take 1 live, the ground and the earth. Not a home situation if I was doing this at home I'd run 32amp Twin and earth from spare slot on the board and add the correct breaker. I've done this before and it cost me ~£45 last time for the wire and breaker, my house hasn't burnt down yet lol.

I'm not sure I understand how my neighbour balances me because one side house has been empty for a year and the other side they work nights so I would think the 3 phases are not balanced unless balance isn't load which is what I assumed it to be. Also what happens when it doesn't divide by 3? When I was thinking of balance I was thinking it needed to be equal draw on all 3 phases a once which is how 3 phase motors work of course.

I'm not an electrician lol but interested and would like to improve my leccy skills especially as the last electrician I had at home I ended up having to fix his dodgy wiring lol. (Patched my Electric oven cable in the wall with 13amp!) Trust a trader my fucking arse.

I just realised reading your post that I need to check which phase is which in the fuse box before I wire this up I think a volt meter should be the right tool for the job. I'm assuming they put the different phases on different rows.

Clive S
15-06-2017, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the reply, I actually meant to write
"1 phase of 3 to get 230v mains you mustn't have a load on the other 2 phases otherwise the load will be unbalanced over all 3 phases."
You have to remember that it is not just one house but many so there are many on each phase and they will average out.

For three phase to run correctly they must all balance out. (I am not having go)

Regarding the oven I believe there are some that run from a 13A socket these days.

Neale
15-06-2017, 07:13 PM
In a domestic environment, each house in the row is connected to one phase in turn. Over a street-full of houses, it probably balances out. Where I live, in a little group of 5 houses, I've no idea how it works! But I guess that averaged across the village, it's OK.

What you should avoid (I'm pretty sure that there are regulations about this) is having two or more different phases available within reach of each other. Not quite sure what the minimum spacing is, but the idea is to avoid anyone connecting themselves across these two phases which will be even more likely to kill than just phase and earth/neutral. Obviously, that doesn't apply when all three phases are being used together, but in that case they all go to the same appliance/tool/whatever.

Kettle sounds like a useful find - I have to walk all the way indoors from the garage to make my coffee!

Desertboy
15-06-2017, 08:52 PM
You have to remember that it is not just one house but many so there are many on each phase and they will average out.

For three phase to run correctly they must all balance out. (I am not having go)

Regarding the oven I believe there are some that run from a 13A socket these days.

Not mine lol I have the manual for it recommends a minimum 30amp also the cable I only discovered the wiring because the smell of plastic burning coming from behind my tiles and when I got the melted charded mess out I was glad it was under tiles and not plasterboard lol.

I want to learn Clive so tell me where I'm wrong I need to be educated lol as my teacher said you don't learn anything by being right it's only by being wrong that you learn ;)

I assume that if I only use 1 phase out of 3 then I need not worry about balancing at all? I want to wire the 3 phase socket as it's easier to convince my dad to let me fit the socket if it's 3 phase.

Also I have the 3 phase stuff and I want to buy a 3 phase plasma cutter so it all makes good sense to me if it's safe of course.

Desertboy
16-06-2017, 06:45 PM
This will set me back another week but after extensive talk to someone in the know I've decided to pour epoxy resin inside my aluminium extrusion (Gantry only for now).

Probably this stuff
http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/polycraft-cleartop-35-bar-table-resin.html

Mixed at this sort of ratio
50% aluminium filler powder
35% Epoxy
15% Carbon fibre powder

Fill these cavities
21895

I've found out that epoxy resin generates heat in curing which would cause problems but I will bolt the gantry mount on one end fill the extrusion up leaving another space to bolt the top plate on tight. Then I will put the whole thing in a water bath for overnight to cure evenly.

From discussions with the fibreglass guy it'll be stronger than aluminium but weaker than steel for ~4kg's of weight added to the gantry should make it much more rigid.

Will make the gantry mounts with 25mm ecocast to reflect this, I'm going to have a rectangle milled the size of the extrusion so it's embedded 5mm into the mounting plate when bolted in.

Also getting the aluminium drilled next week so it will bolt together with 10mm A2's and will add in the centre struts.
21894

Desertboy
28-06-2017, 12:39 PM
Getting closer just ordered a 1605 ballscrew 250mm with fittings for z axis as not happy with the ballscrews I have (40cm) and had a score on the tool aluminium which has saved me £70 ;)

Local aluminium supplier had a few pieces that were cut too short for the customer which are perfect for me £30 ;)

2* 360mm*150mm 20mm these will be my gantry mounts
1*300mm*120mm 15mm this will be the basis of my Z

Still need to work out what other little bits I need but a score and a 1/2 ;)

Desertboy
29-06-2017, 10:21 PM
Dilemma 25mm supported rail with 4 bearings for the bottom axis or 15mm Original HIWIN with 4 carriages?

I now have the rail and then some lol ;)

Some nutter just bought a lot of rail and 40 carriages lol.

Zeeflyboy
29-06-2017, 11:31 PM
proper linear rail will always win imo... 15mm is a slightly awkward size in some regards but more than strong enough for any loads your machine will impart.

Desertboy
29-06-2017, 11:33 PM
proper linear rail will always win imo... 15mm is a slightly awkward size in some regards but more than strong enough for any loads your machine will impart.

"but more than strong enough for any loads your machine will impart." that's all I need to hear ;)

The big PITA is I need 4mm T nuts like 90 of them lol at £3.60 a pack of 10, gutted because I have a bucket of 6mm T nuts somewhere :(

But now I can do Hiwin for the z axis as well. So Real Hiwin's on the bottom axis and Z and clone Hiwin's on the gantry a significant upgrade from the original plan but need to seriously think about how to build this properly. I'm taking my time but I'm getting there and hopefully with a hell of a lot better than an xcarve/shapeoko at less than their cost ;)

Not sure what to do with the other 32 carriages and rail but when I get my machine working I might just turn them all into Z axis's to flog (Add 1605 ballscrew of course) or maybe make some extra large 3d printers to sell.

Be nice to turn the Hiwin's I don't use into cash but probably keep a spare set in case.

A_Camera
30-06-2017, 08:47 AM
This will set me back another week but after extensive talk to someone in the know I've decided to pour epoxy resin inside my aluminium extrusion (Gantry only for now).

Probably this stuff
http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/polycraft-cleartop-35-bar-table-resin.html

Mixed at this sort of ratio
50% aluminium filler powder
35% Epoxy
15% Carbon fibre powder

Nasty stuff... Read the safety instructions before starting.

Lee Roberts
30-06-2017, 09:18 AM
"The big PITA is I need 4mm T nuts like 90 of them lol at £3.60 a pack of 10, gutted because I have a bucket of 6mm T nuts somewhere :(

Think I got 200 M5 for about £7 off ali express.

Desertboy
30-06-2017, 09:26 AM
I was looking Lee but 30-40 days shipping time is just a little too long but would cost me ~£10 now for 100 M4 45 series T nuts KJN will cost ~£30 but I can pick up today (KJN is 4 miles from my work). I need to go KJN anyway to cut some more extrusion for the bed and they are going to drill/counterbore the extrusion I'm making the frame from. So I can bolt it together rather than use corners which is cheaper and stronger.

Lee Roberts
30-06-2017, 09:38 AM
I was looking Lee but 30-40 days shipping time is just a little too long but would cost me ~£10 now for 100 M4 45 series T nuts KJN will cost ~£30 but I can pick up today (KJN is 4 miles from my work). I need to go KJN anyway to cut some more extrusion for the bed and they are going to drill/counterbore the extrusion I'm making the frame from. So I can bolt it together rather than use corners which is cheaper and stronger.

Humm sounds good plan, I remember thinking at the time I should order an assortment and bang them on ebay, the price for T nuts is ridiculous in this country/online.

Desertboy
30-06-2017, 11:04 AM
Humm sounds good plan, I remember thinking at the time I should order an assortment and bang them on ebay, the price for T nuts is ridiculous in this country/online.

When I finally finish my build I'm going to order 100 of each type for the 45 series extrusion for stock so I won't ever have to pay stupid prices again lol.

When I finish my machine I will have used nearly all my extrusion up so need to go on a pikey mission round the scrap yards to see what I can find ;)

Or just buy that machine I linked to if you don't first lol.

Desertboy
01-07-2017, 01:30 PM
Right bought a 13pcs collet set so I suppose I ought to get some endmills ordered open to suggestions, I want to be able to cut MDF accurately and I want some aluminium millers.

I do know I will need ballnose end mill at least, I most confused on the size I should buy.

Desertboy
08-07-2017, 12:01 PM
Almost ready to have the aluminium plates made was going to send cad models and discovered that my clone rail has HR15 blocks not HG15 blocks!

The difference is probably about 8mm in mounting height lol going to need to take some accurate measurement s and rethink the gantry as this is where the HR15 is going.

the other choice is move some HG carriages across but worried the clone rail will be made of crap steel and proper HG carriages will wear it prematurely so think maybe I should stick with the original carriages for the clone rail.

Once I have the mounts in pace I can finally start getting movement on the XY&Z axis ;)

I may never have got on with my Prusa Mendel 3d printer but I could never have had even a chance at building this without it ;)

Desertboy
12-07-2017, 10:39 AM
22213

Blue bits are aluminum plate to mount everything together, been through 3 different designs to solve the 15mm HIWIN/Ballscrew problem but happy with this one.

Desertboy
14-07-2017, 10:42 AM
Need to get some wiring for the stepper motor's as cables are far too short and need to be extended will something like this suffice?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/time-round-flexible-cable-3184y-4-core-1mm-x-5m-white/74464?kpid=74464&gclid=CMzyxoewiNUCFYEaGwodtxMMWg&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COq6zoewiNUCFSIS0wodF9IDHA

All my Nema 23's are 4 wire.

Clive S
14-07-2017, 11:05 AM
Need to get some wiring for the stepper motor's as cables are far too short and need to be extended will something like this suffice?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/time-round-flexible-cable-3184y-4-core-1mm-x-5m-white/74464?kpid=74464&gclid=CMzyxoewiNUCFYEaGwodtxMMWg&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COq6zoewiNUCFSIS0wodF9IDHA

All my Nema 23's are 4 wire.

Something like this would be better 4 core CY cable 1mm. https://www.cse-distributors.co.uk/cable/flexible-control-cable/cy-screened-cable/

Desertboy
14-07-2017, 11:16 AM
Something like this would be better 4 core CY cable 1mm. https://www.cse-distributors.co.uk/cable/flexible-control-cable/cy-screened-cable/

How flexible is the CY cable? Will it be ok in energy chain? Thinking gantry and Z axis obviously. Seems cheap enough can get locally for £2.50 a metre (plus the dreaded) only need 6m's as max.

Clive S
14-07-2017, 12:13 PM
How flexible is the CY cable? Will it be ok in energy chain? Thinking gantry and Z axis obviously. Seems cheap enough can get locally for £2.50 a metre (plus the dreaded) only need 6m's as max.

No problem energy chain has been used many time by a lot of guys on here. The idea is to ground the screen and one end (control box) only.

Desertboy
14-07-2017, 12:57 PM
No problem energy chain has been used many time by a lot of guys on here. The idea is to ground the screen and one end (control box) only.

Thanks for the reply, when it comes to the spindle (I have a 2.2kw) should I use 2.5mm SY cable?

Clive S
14-07-2017, 01:12 PM
Thanks for the reply, when it comes to the spindle (I have a 2.2kw) should I use 2.5mm SY cable?

I use 1.5mm 4 core CY again just ground the screen at the vfd end

Desertboy
14-07-2017, 01:31 PM
I use 1.5mm 4 core CY again just ground the screen at the vfd end

The screen is the protective metal sleeve? Do I simply run it to the ground for the power in to the VFD?

Clive S
14-07-2017, 01:38 PM
The screen is the protective metal sleeve? Do I simply run it to the ground for the power in to the VFD?Connect the screen to the mains earth connection in the vfd

Desertboy
17-07-2017, 08:37 AM
Firm I was working with has gone bankrupt :( so I now no longer have a need for the router BUT of course I'm going to finish it and then work out what the hell I will do with it lol. Since I learnt to cad having a router has been on my bucket list so not upset about building it but gutted on losing the work for it.

Frame has finally gone to be cut and drilled should get back tomorrow and can start building up and start fitting the HIWIN's.

Zeeflyboy
17-07-2017, 09:40 AM
Shame, but there will always be other opportunities in the future if you keep your eyes open I'm sure.

Desertboy
17-07-2017, 09:54 AM
Shame, but there will always be other opportunities in the future if you keep your eyes open I'm sure.

I already have 1 job for it but unfortunately unpaid lol, making an arcade table ('80's style) for my best mates Bday as a surprise he wrote a famous(ish) game and is 40 this year so we're making him a cabinet with graphics done in the style of the game he wrote. I guarantee most of you have played this game at least a little bit ;)

Unfortunately that will cost me money not make it lol but will be interesting project, making considerable mods to the standard table design so it will have a built in projector as well as a 23" LCD screen and 4 joystick inputs. I have till Mid October to finish the cabinet, will be MDF and Vinyl wrapped. Luckily his GF and his mum are putting 1/3 into the cost as it's going to cost over £500 to build lol. I will measure a real 1980's Pacman table and do my own design based on the measurements.

If I built a decent positive pressure vacuum former (Next project) I can keep the machine busy for a small scale prototyping firm a friend runs but I need to make sure the quality is there. Luckily the molds are MDF normally so the stresses are less.

Desertboy
20-07-2017, 10:47 AM
Found a decent arcade table model on grabcad based on a pacman table will use it a reference to redraw my table ;)

I'm going to add another 2 joysticks so there is 4.
22237

Sent my frame to be cut & drilled and got T nuts for fittings the Hiwin cost £100, can't wait to get it back now and see how it all goes together.

Ger21
23-07-2017, 02:42 PM
This will set me back another week but after extensive talk to someone in the know I've decided to pour epoxy resin inside my aluminium extrusion (Gantry only for now).

Probably this stuff
http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/polycraft-cleartop-35-bar-table-resin.html

Mixed at this sort of ratio
50% aluminium filler powder
35% Epoxy
15% Carbon fibre powder

Fill these cavities
21895

I've found out that epoxy resin generates heat in curing which would cause problems but I will bolt the gantry mount on one end fill the extrusion up leaving another space to bolt the top plate on tight. Then I will put the whole thing in a water bath for overnight to cure evenly.

From discussions with the fibreglass guy it'll be stronger than aluminium but weaker than steel for ~4kg's of weight added to the gantry should make it much more rigid.

Will make the gantry mounts with 25mm ecocast to reflect this, I'm going to have a rectangle milled the size of the extrusion so it's embedded 5mm into the mounting plate when bolted in.

Also getting the aluminium drilled next week so it will bolt together with 10mm A2's and will add in the centre struts.
21894

Not sure if you've done this yet, but it won't make you're extrusion more rigid, or stronger, unless you try to crush it.

Desertboy
24-07-2017, 08:25 AM
Not sure if you've done this yet, but it won't make you're extrusion more rigid, or stronger, unless you try to crush it.

Hi Ger21, I'm the same person who posted on cnczone I remember your comments, since then I changed the design to use 3 pieces of extrusion 2 4545 and 1 4590 profile bolted in a straight vertical line they are all the heavy duty profiles and I am embedding the extrusion 5mm into the gantry mounts both sides (Plates are 20mm thick).

I won't epoxy the gantry but I might fill the 4590 extrusion cavity (This is a large one 4l's in volume) with sand on advice from some crazy Germans ;) Who claim it can have a big effect on reducing vibrations.

MartinS
26-07-2017, 11:21 AM
On the topic of filling the extruded section with resin, reinforced or otherwise, has anyone got views or experience of lining extrusions with carbon fibre?

Obviously this could not apply to the sections above but I am thinking of say RH Al or Fe 120x60x3, 100x50x3 being used for the Y gantry.

I understand the logic of adding weight to kill vibration but this weight has to be accelerated and decelerated.

With a layer or two of carbon/kevlar fibre cloth and resin applied to the internal surface of the RH and cured, could this provide an element of vibration reduction whilst reducing the tendency of the Y gantry to deflect under the torsional load caused by heavy cutting in X?

Just a thought!!

Desertboy
29-07-2017, 09:51 AM
On the topic of filling the extruded section with resin, reinforced or otherwise, has anyone got views or experience of lining extrusions with carbon fibre?

Obviously this could not apply to the sections above but I am thinking of say RH Al or Fe 120x60x3, 100x50x3 being used for the Y gantry.

I understand the logic of adding weight to kill vibration but this weight has to be accelerated and decelerated.

With a layer or two of carbon/kevlar fibre cloth and resin applied to the internal surface of the RH and cured, could this provide an element of vibration reduction whilst reducing the tendency of the Y gantry to deflect under the torsional load caused by heavy cutting in X?

Just a thought!!

If you're going to use box section I'd go with steel, box section is a lot weaker than T slot extrusion (Less material for a start but also cross bracing, etc.)

Not had enough experience with Carbon Fibre to comment.

Desertboy
31-07-2017, 08:29 PM
Finally!

22423

KJN drilled and counterbored this to my cad model has some minor issues but everything is good and would highly recommend KJN to anyone else who might want to do something similar. For what it cost it was well worth it!

Desertboy
01-08-2017, 04:49 PM
Started bolting everything together, immediately found out need more bolts lol just ordered £21 worth of stainless socket cap A2's :(

Although I needed 20 M10 bolts which cost £9 of that the rest was M4's, M5's and some M6's of various lengths hope I got it right.

I need to cut 8 bolts down from 60mm to 55mm what's the best way? Was thinking put a nut on the bolt then put bolt in a vice then use a cutting disc. Take the bolt off when done to clean the threads up.

My mum gave me her old laptop which has a knackered battery which is no issues to me of course it's a touch screen which will work very nicely with grbl and the arduino but will be useless when I get a breakout board, proper steppers unfortunately. I like it because it's a very neat solution just no point mounting it properly as it won't be used for long.

22429
I like it because the screen flips so it'll be a neat solution that doesn't need a keyboard and mouse but if needed I can flip the keyboard out (Or bring a virtual one up) pity it doesn't have proper ethernet.

Zeeflyboy
01-08-2017, 04:54 PM
I always underestimate the cost of fixings! Screws not so bad usually, but extras like t-nuts and extrusion specific fittings etc add up very quickly.

I find when cutting down bolts the best is to spin a die onto the nut, do the cutting and tidy with a file, then spin the die off and it'll recut any thread that has been mangled on the tip.

A nut would probably work well enough if you don't have dies.

I've used KJN before too, was very happy with the accuracy of cuts and service.

Desertboy
01-08-2017, 04:58 PM
I always underestimate the cost of fixings! Screws not so bad usually, but extras like t-nuts and extrusion specific fittings etc add up very quickly.

I find when cutting down bolts the best is to spin a die onto the nut, do the cutting and tidy with a file, then spin the die off and it'll recut any thread that has been mangled on the tip.

A nut would probably work well enough if you don't have dies.

I've used KJN before too, was very happy with the accuracy of cuts and service.

I'm lucky they're less than 3 miles from me otherwise I would never have been able to reuse this extrusion they cut and drilled everything for me was worried they wouldn't touch my stuff because I didn't buy it from them.

I was Naive thinking I could build this super cheap but still with a lot pikeying, buying big jigs to strip for Hiwin's, etc it still cost me under £1000 including the spindle but I had a lot of luck and the extrusion I'd had for over 2 years kicking around.

Was gutted I had to buy 90 T nuts because I have a bucket with easily that in but all M6 and I need 86 M4's for the Hiwins.

Had a lot of fun bolting 50 T nuts down today lol but in the end got a method the first 25 took me 40 mins the 2nd 25 less than 5 mins.

I've been recovering A2's for a while but just not enough next bit machine I'm saving every bolt lol.

Nr1madman
01-08-2017, 10:48 PM
Aah I wish I could claim anything near 1000£ for my build. . Think I passed that years ago :D

Desertboy
01-08-2017, 11:33 PM
Aah I wish I could claim anything near 1000£ for my build. . Think I passed that years ago :D

If Bought everything new £2.5k plsu a lot of work lol, I really have worked for my router a lot of lost weekends.

Nr1madman
02-08-2017, 06:51 AM
If Bought everything new £2.5k plsu a lot of work lol, I really have worked for my router a lot of lost weekends.Yeah I understand! But if you are similar to me it's not "lost" weekends but fun weekends ;)

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Desertboy
03-08-2017, 07:20 AM
I always underestimate the cost of fixings! Screws not so bad usually, but extras like t-nuts and extrusion specific fittings etc add up very quickly.

I find when cutting down bolts the best is to spin a die onto the nut, do the cutting and tidy with a file, then spin the die off and it'll recut any thread that has been mangled on the tip.

A nut would probably work well enough if you don't have dies.

When I finish my router and built the arcade table going to make a big order for fixing's and T nuts from China we should all chip in and get a massive order then split them off between us. I've found T nuts are 1/2 the price from China on alixpress and it soon adds up lol.

Guy at work has a die set so hopefully won't be too bad.

I wonder if my Nema's are underpowered

The Y axis has 2 matched nema 23's 1.8nm, the X axis (Gantry) is unknown nema 23 as I recovered it but is identical size and weight to the 1.8nm's so I assume it is a 1.8nm and the Z axis is a 1.2nm stubby that one is an Italian stepper motor.

The Poulou stepper drivers can only power 2amp at 24v which will limit the motors even more (The bigger ones are 2.8amp) but I will buy 4 AM882 drivers and breakout next month and have a 48v power supply kicking around so should be able to get closer to their potential in the near future.

Clive S
03-08-2017, 10:23 AM
I wonder if my Nema's are underpowered

The Y axis has 2 matched nema 23's 1.8nm, the X axis (Gantry) is unknown nema 23 as I recovered it but is identical size and weight to the 1.8nm's so I assume it is a 1.8nm and the Z axis is a 1.2nm stubby that one is an Italian stepper motor.

In my opinion nema 23's for a router need to be 3.1nm 8 wire, wired in parallel config running at about 4A with AM882 drives at 68V this is a tried and tested solution for many.

In your case I think you are going to slave an axis so you have to think about homing IF using two motors on one axis, so if looking at motion controllers make sure that, that is possible (not all do) Linuxcnc now finally can do this even with a simple bob (as long as you use master 2.8 branch) as it will now home to two axis and be able to offset one to sort out any squaring of the gantry. (this is not an advert for Lcnc as there are plenty of controllers that can do this)
Mach3 can do this as well.

Desertboy
03-08-2017, 10:35 AM
In my opinion nema 23's for a router need to be 3.1nm 8 wire, wired in parallel config running at about 4A with AM882 drives at 68V this is a tried and tested solution for many.

In your case I think you are going to slave an axis so you have to think about homing IF using two motors on one axis, so if looking at motion controllers make sure that, that is possible (not all do) Linuxcnc now finally can do this even with a simple bob (as long as you use master 2.8 branch) as it will now home to two axis and be able to offset one to sort out any squaring of the gantry. (this is not an advert for Lcnc as there are plenty of controllers that can do this)
Mach3 can do this as well.

Would this power supply do?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/800W-High-power-Switching-power-supply-amplifier-PSU-70V-/131512489826?hash=item1e9ec15762:g:8aAAAOSwPhdVJL-~

Clive S
03-08-2017, 10:44 AM
Would this power supply do?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/800W-High-power-Switching-power-supply-amplifier-PSU-70V-/131512489826?hash=item1e9ec15762:g:8aAAAOSwPhdVJL-~

No. But you could make one for that price:

https://www.rapidonline.com/50a-bridge-rectifier-metal-case-519318

https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-hc2a478m35040ha-4700uf-100v-85deg-hc-snap-in-capacitor-11-3121

https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep0882-p-35mm-nylon-capacitor-mounting-clamp-11-3004

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-625-125-625va-toroidal-transformer-230v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0012

Some people might use 24-0 -24V secondary

Desertboy
04-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Fixing become much more expensive when you order the wrong ones lol, I was convinced they were M10's that bolt the extrusion together they're actually M12 so £20 wasted on 30 M10 bolts and an M10 tap :( Ordered correct bolts going to try and wing it without a tap first.

Maybe I should build my own power supply has a certain geek factor to it ;)

Clive S
04-08-2017, 12:38 PM
Fixing become much more expensive when you order the wrong ones lol, I was convinced they were M10's that bolt the extrusion together they're actually M12 so £20 wasted on 30 M10 bolts and an M10 tap :( Ordered correct bolts going to try and wing it without a tap first.

Maybe I should build my own power supply has a certain geek factor to it ;)

I don't think you can screw a bolt into the extrusion without a tap I use these:- https://www.cutwel.co.uk/threading/machine-taps/metric-coarse-machine-taps/general-purpose-metric-coarse-taps/spiral-flute-metric-coarse-vap-combo-machine-tap-yg-1-tb804-series

In a battery drill.

Building a power supply is simple about one hours work.

Zeeflyboy
04-08-2017, 12:38 PM
I doubt you will get an m12 bolt in without a tap.

3 piece set here for 8 quid... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HSS-METRIC-HAND-TAP-SET-SINGLE-TAPER-PLUG-BOTTOMING-ENGINEERING-TOOLS-MODEL-/142433904555?var=&hash=item2129b8e7ab:m:mQseV6AsjNnuGfIi7lhU9Dg

Desertboy
04-08-2017, 12:47 PM
Hi this is where the bolts are going into
22459

You can get away without a tap if you use a decent impact driver but I've heeded your advice and bought one anyway lol might as well do it right. ;)

They sell bolts for self tapping into these I assume they have a more aggressive thread but I have used stainless A2's before untapped but that was with the 20mm extrusion which was very hard to do.

The 20mm is a solid circle though in the middle I think this would be easier to drive them in but might as well tap them. Annoying because I wanted to assemble the frame this weekend and bolt the rest of the Hiwin's on.

Zeeflyboy
04-08-2017, 02:29 PM
Yeah I've used the self tapping thread screws before, albeit m6 rather than m12. As you say they have a cutting type thread rather than the typical. Work well though, especially when you have a lot to do it's a big time saver over tapping.

your extrusion holes are a slightly different design to mine and looks easier to tap with those "tabs", I just know that even tapping mine to m12 was quite an effort. I just imagine you might risk shearing a bolt off trying to drive a thread that big with a normal bolt using an impact driver.... which might probably ruin your day, although m12 is quite meaty so that would take a lot of force I guess.

If you were closer you could have just borrowed my taps, but I guess just posting them to you won't work out much cheaper or quicker. No one near you that you could borrow from?

Desertboy
04-08-2017, 02:41 PM
Yeah I've used the self tapping thread screws before, albeit m6 rather than m12. As you say they have a cutting type thread rather than the typical. Work well though, especially when you have a lot to do it's a big time saver over tapping.

your extrusion holes are a slightly different design to mine and looks easier to tap with those "tabs", I just know that even tapping mine to m12 was quite an effort. I just imagine you might risk shearing a bolt off trying to drive a thread that big with a normal bolt using an impact driver.... which might probably ruin your day, although m12 is quite meaty so that would take a lot of force I guess.

If you were closer you could have just borrowed my taps, but I guess just posting them to you won't work out much cheaper or quicker. No one near you that you could borrow from?

I just bought one £8 was worth it

Clive S
04-08-2017, 02:43 PM
I have just tapped 26 M12 in heavy extrusion, it take less than 20 secs a hole with the right tap.

Desertboy
04-08-2017, 02:45 PM
I have just tapped 26 M12 in heavy extrusion, it take less than 20 secs a hole with the right tap.

Oddly enough I have 26 to tap.

Nr1madman
04-08-2017, 03:40 PM
The right tap makes all the difference! Broke my m6 spiral machine tap a while back and had to tap 7 holes with a straight old regular one last night. Probably took 3-5 minutes / hole because of all the back and forward you have to do. :(

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Desertboy
05-08-2017, 09:16 AM
They say a picture is worth a thousand words
22464

And the words here are my Brother is a wanker! Bits of my machine are under all that! I've managed to clear most of it now and found the bits for my machine luckily everything is ok BUT I am missing a set of BK12/BF12 bearings.

Clive S
05-08-2017, 09:44 AM
Was the air Blue:hysterical:

Desertboy
05-08-2017, 10:06 AM
Was the air Blue:hysterical:

I'm not a violent man that's why I paid some crack heads to break his legs :tickled_pink:

Desertboy
05-08-2017, 02:46 PM
Managed to do 10 bolts without a Tap but hard hard work take note the size of lever lol. Ran out of bolts now when the rest come the tap will be here as well.

22465

2 pieces making the bottom frame are 6045 extrusion which makes it look a little odd. I wonder if I spaced them close enough together the gap is less than 30cm between each extrusion will have an 18mm MDF board on top

I'm impressed with KJN's cuts the frame fits together perfectly. I had the outer frame cut from 9045 ages ago then had them cut the 4545 and 6045 that make the bed up the other day. Other places I;ve used they would not fit properly.

Need to have a think about legs I want to have a shelf underneath so I can put vacuum cleaner & cyclone, water cooling, etc on the shelf to keep things neat and under control.

Desertboy
05-08-2017, 06:16 PM
Now looking at it I realise I need to add more supports for the bed I have another piece of 6020 I can cut to 2 1m pieces and if I buy 2 more pieces (£24) then I could do this for the bed

22466
With a a sheet of MDF on it I think it would be ok.

I wouldn't have the frame drilled I would just use corners and T nuts I have enough kicking around.

Nr1madman
05-08-2017, 06:30 PM
Hmm this might have been talked about already.. but is the gantry spanning the long axis instead of the shortest possible?
Or is the image playing tricks on me? ;)

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Desertboy
05-08-2017, 06:48 PM
Hmm this might have been talked about already.. but is the gantry spanning the long axis instead of the shortest possible?
Or is the image playing tricks on me? ;)

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There was method to my madness, I originally had SBR25 and 15mm clone Hiwin's so I decided the SBR25 could take the most weight and made my gantry span the longest axis. (This is 1.5m) then I ordered 1 1.4m ballscrew and 2 1m ballscrews. A few weeks later I managed to score more original 15mm Hiwin's so now the whole thing will be linear rail.

If I had the Hiwin's originally I would have built it the other (More conventional) way round but hey hoe.

If this is a real issue with flex I will have to buy another 1.4m ballscrew and convert it over it wouldn't be too hard.

Nr1madman
05-08-2017, 06:53 PM
I knew I read something about it!
Well.. I totally understand ;)
When building like a mechanical pirate the plans can always change :D

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Desertboy
07-08-2017, 06:14 PM
I think I will make the bed a vac table using 16mm holes (I have caps to block off the areas not in use.)

The recess is 1220mm*800mm so I can cut MDF/PLY to fit perfectly into the recess with 1 cut.

22480

22481

Desertboy
18-08-2017, 01:54 PM
Not much to report just waiting for the plates but have bought a 2nd hand PC so I can run Fusion 360, think I did ok.

3.4ghz I7 2400k (performance is about 15% of the latest I7's ghz for ghz mostly down to DD4 I bet), 8gb of ram but will ditch and get 4*8gb DDR3 dimms 2nd hand £72 so have 32gb of ram, fitting a GTX760, new power supply and SSD so will be a significant improvement on present PC for under £400 ;)

I could actually play games on this but not going to have time with learning Fusion, CAM and not killing my customers who do all deserve to die.

If I had the cash I would have bought Ryzon 8 core jobbie but need to get proper steppers and PSU next so scrimp and save every penny ;)

Desertboy
19-08-2017, 01:14 PM
22608 The ballscrew will have a mount either end to bolt into just laid it roughly where it's going to go, Hiwin's bolted on finally need to cut them down.

This will be the gantry (Has clone Hiwin's on)

22609

3 individual pieces 2 * 4545 and 1*9045 will drill 5 holes through the 4545 and bolt using T nuts to the 9045 to reduce flex.

The Hiwin problem anyone who's used 15mm Hiwin's and a 1605 ballscrew knows this problem lol, it doesn't affect my Y axis because the ballscrews are at right angles to the Hiwin's but the gantry and Z axis both had this problem which I solved with a combination of spacers and recesses.
22611

Aluminium extrusion is strong but not that strong lol
22612

Heavy duty 6045 I found under the mess when the shelf collapsed this will get cut down for leg supports now.

I still have 2 pieces of the SBR left with bearing this will be the basis for my positive pressure vac former ballscrew driven naturally.
22610
I can say from personal experience DO NOT BUY EVOLUTION TABLE SAW it's total shit!

magicniner
19-08-2017, 02:10 PM
I can say from personal experience DO NOT BUY EVOLUTION TABLE SAW it's total shit!

That's a shame, I have the big Evolution cutoff saw and I use it for all sorts of things, it did sterling service cutting a load of old thick wall galvanised imperial scaffold poles into manageable lengths, you need a squirt of WD for ally cutting to avoid clogging up the blade and you must clear the blade if you do clog it.
Just don't try cutting Titanuim, it will eat the blade, don't ask how I know! ;-)

- Nick

Desertboy
19-08-2017, 02:16 PM
That's a shame, I have the big Evolution cutoff saw and I use it for all sorts of things, it did sterling service cutting a load of old thick wall galvanised imperial scaffold poles into manageable lengths, you need a squirt of WD for ally cutting to avoid clogging up the blade and you must clear the blade if you do clog it.
Just don't try cutting Titanuim, it will eat the blade, don't ask how I know! ;-)

- Nick

The saw is really good it's the rest of the table that's crap lol, plastic has no place in a table saw! The fence is useless and the table is coming to pieces. I've often thought about taking the saw out and rebuilding it with a real table.

I have an evolution mitre that's a lot better machine but still flimsy it's great for home use but if you've got any commercial uses I think Axminister is a better choice. My friend has done many a house up with his evolution but his tolerances are lot lower than mine.

If you do get clogged teeth from aluminium I found cutting a bit of scrap steel cleans it out fine again but good advice I usually add a tiny amount of SAS (Think it's the same stuff as WD).

Screwfix sell evolution compatible blades for 1/2 the price I have one on my machine at moment can honestly say they are as good the proper ones.

As for eating blades also don't try and cut SBR25 rail with it either lol blunted the blade in and made a slight groove in the rail. Afterwards blades would not cut wood anymore just burn it ;)

In the end I cut the rail with a £1 cutting disc and grinder in about 30 seconds, right tool for the job lol.

Desertboy
20-08-2017, 06:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

My custom nema mount and bK12/Bf12 mounts work pefectly
22618

BK12/BF12 mount countersunk bolts so the bolts go from underneath the other 2 holes are to bolt into the T nuts.
22622

The ballnut & spacer bolt in perfectly although I removed the bolts again as they need to be cut down 5mm.
22619

22620

Nickhofen
20-08-2017, 10:28 PM
Nice build, I am watching.

Zeeflyboy
20-08-2017, 11:43 PM
I've used and abused my big evolution sliding mitre saw over the last couple of years and it's still trucking, I've been very happy with the value for money. It's a little... agricultural... certainly not a precision tool and despite my best efforts I've never been able to completely square it up but it chomps through everything I throw at it, and I use it a lot for chopping up 20mm alu plate but have cut paving slabs, stone tiles, steel, alu, PVC pipe, copious amounts of wood. it's never complained!

Build is looking good!

Desertboy
21-08-2017, 07:56 AM
I've used and abused my big evolution sliding mitre saw over the last couple of years and it's still trucking, I've been very happy with the value for money. It's a little... agricultural... certainly not a precision tool and despite my best efforts I've never been able to completely square it up but it chomps through everything I throw at it, and I use it a lot for chopping up 20mm alu plate but have cut paving slabs, stone tiles, steel, alu, PVC pipe, copious amounts of wood. it's never complained!

Build is looking good!

The saw bit is great on my evolution it's the table bit that's crap lol, I to cut 20mm aluminium plate on my table saw and the table saw still has it's original blade. The mitre blade is the one I blunted trying to cut SBR but guess that's hardened. Screwfix sell evolution copy blades for ~£10 each they're pretty good.

Never could get my mitre square either lol.

I should chop the end of the Hiwin's to make it flush but it feels a sin to chop 20cm off original Hiwin's and if I swap the gantry round the shortest way and buy new ballscrews I can get another 10cm of travel out of it.

I already know if I keep this for any length of time will change the ballscrews to 2510's and swap the gantry round.

I tried to increase the chances of making a reasonable machine by outsourcing the manufacturing which I think was the best decision I made in my life lol. All I have to do is get the cad right ;)


I've already made 2 mistakes lol, I missed a counterbore but this is a non issue I can sort myself, one of the ballnut recesses is not long enough this is more of an issue but think we might solve it with a hand router and a jig.

Chaz
21-08-2017, 06:30 PM
Lovely gantry parts you have there Desertboy. They look awfully familiar.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4334/35906760453_c92451653f_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4377/35906760573_804fd090f8_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4381/35906760643_067cd9b92d_b.jpg

Desertboy
21-08-2017, 06:46 PM
Lovely gantry parts you have there Desertboy. They look awfully familiar.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4334/35906760453_c92451653f_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4377/35906760573_804fd090f8_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4381/35906760643_067cd9b92d_b.jpg

They do there don't they lol, a big thanks for Chaz helping me out here couldn't have done it without him ;) Was leaving the big reveal for when the machine moved ha ha ha but confidence is a lot higher that it will all be good.

This is my first CNC machine and I designed it myself with a vague idea how my reprap moved lol, the best advice I got so far I think was using 20mm tooling plate for the gantry ;) Then ditch the SBR for the Hiwin's.

Very happy with my plates from Chaz and the only issues I have come across come from me not measuring everything out properly! After mentioning exactly that in Zeeflyboy's thread I should be super embarrassed lol.

What happens when you don't bother modelling everything and use some lines and data from the engineering drawings lol.

And let me say Thor might look impressive but when she moves the earth moves with her lol.

Desertboy
21-08-2017, 07:07 PM
22648

PC is on it's way, got GFX card need SSD yesterday ;)

Next stop Fusion lol.

Zeeflyboy
21-08-2017, 11:45 PM
looks like Thor's done a lovely job on those plates!

RobC
21-08-2017, 11:56 PM
Looking good!

Desertboy
22-08-2017, 02:05 PM
Got PC and ran into problems but nothing too severe but like always nothing works first time.

Need to swap the motherboard to a new case so I change the PSU as the existing case has a weird small power supply and I'd lose 2 drive bays if I fit gfx card in this machine. Have old mini tower pc's kicking round so not a biggie just hassle.

The other problem my 700w power supply I bought the other day only has 1 6pin pci connector and the card needs 1 6pin and 1 8pin so had to order a dual molex to 8pin adapter which will take a day or 2 to come and that's annoying.

Nothing's ever easy when you're budgeting lol.

The original 300w power supply is one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSP300-60EP-1-FSP-Group-300W-24-Pin-ATX-Power-Supply-/231738367540?hash=item35f4aede34:g:CYgAAOSw3YJZO4u T

which I believe are very good quality power supplies so will keep for some future project or maybe just flog it it is 80 plus certified.

Nr1madman
23-08-2017, 12:58 PM
Often when you are to budget focused it actually gets more expensive because you need to modify ;) I go there all the time

Desertboy
23-08-2017, 08:57 PM
22666

If anyone else needs there PC case modifying I can help ;)

Zeeflyboy
24-08-2017, 12:08 AM
that's some beautiful workmanship, you are a true artist.

Desertboy
24-08-2017, 06:28 AM
that's some beautiful workmanship, you are a true artist.

And like all artists I have my own custom signature this time I signed the internals of the case in my blood ;)

Desertboy
24-08-2017, 01:19 PM
It works ;) a lot faster than my old PC lol not hard was an early quad core.

Got fusion installed so at weekend will spend some time going through the getting started tutorials.

Nickhofen
24-08-2017, 01:33 PM
Nice to have your PC working, CliveS point me those tutorials for Fusion360 and I found them very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL40d7srwyc_PUk-XisDh54N-hVtLg5p6u
You might have check them already...

Desertboy
25-08-2017, 05:57 PM
Nice to have your PC working, CliveS point me those tutorials for Fusion360 and I found them very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL40d7srwyc_PUk-XisDh54N-hVtLg5p6u
You might have check them already...

Will have to check some tutorials out but had a little "free play" last night lots of nice features made a few simple models a lot more intuitive than Turbocad.

Desertboy
26-08-2017, 08:01 AM
What about these for stepper drivers?
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-10-42a-20-50vdc-for-nema-17-23-24-stepper-motor-dm542t.html

I can probably just about scrape 4 of these and a breakout board next week and run them at 24v until I source a 48v one.

I know not as good as the EM882 I wanted but 1/2 the price and means I can start with linuxcnc.

Had a couple of hours playing in Fusion shocked how easy it is to make models I think it's only going to take me a week to transfer my turbocad skills to fusion the hard part will be the timeline which is quite different to Turbocad but I guess kind of like the part tree.

Zeeflyboy
26-08-2017, 12:29 PM
I have 4 stepper motors and digital drivers very similar to those from when I upgraded my machine. They were running on 40v in my machine.

Could do a bit of a deal on those if you wanted?

Desertboy
28-08-2017, 11:26 AM
OK still need to source the drivers, would using

4 of these
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-10-42a-20-50vdc-for-nema-17-23-24-stepper-motor-dm542t.html

with 2 of these (2 per motor)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-DC48V-8-3A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-Transformer-Switch-PF-/202033306843?hash=item2f0a1f9cdb:g:0eYAAOSwaMpZno1 f

be suitable for my machine

3 of my nema 23's are 2.8amp (X&Y Axis)
the other one is unknown but based on shaft length, size and weight it's 2 amp (Z Axis).

I was going to go with AM882's but seems overkill for my application and it's unlikely I will make major upgrades down the line to my machine as it makes more sense to build another one and then sell the first one.

Clive S
28-08-2017, 11:53 AM
OK still need to source the drivers, would using

4 of these
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/st...or-dm542t.html

with 2 of these (2 per motor)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-...YAAOSwaMpZno1f

be suitable for my machine

If you are using a slaved axis arrangement then ideally you will need stall or fault protection to stop the gantry racking the AM882 will provide that.

The drives that you linked to seem to recommend 36V.

You could built a toroidal for not much more that would work better.

Desertboy
28-08-2017, 12:29 PM
If you are using a slaved axis arrangement then ideally you will need stall or fault protection to stop the gantry racking the AM882 will provide that.

The drives that you linked to seem to recommend 36V.

You could built a toroidal for not much more that would work better.

So what you're saying is stop being a tight ass and do it properly lol, ok point taken!

When it comes to building the PSU will need help :)

Neale
28-08-2017, 12:54 PM
I use 2 motors for my X axis, and I bought EM806 drivers primarily because of the stall detect. The EM806 is a later version, effectively, of the AM882. That stall detect has saved my machine from potential damage on a number of occasions when I've got something wrong. Typically, I've hit the e-stop because of some silly setup or gcode issue, and as a result the gantry has gone out of square. Not a lot, but enough to cause one end or other to bind on rapid feed somewhere along the rails. I've wired the fault signals from the stepper drivers into the motion controller and the whole machine then stops before any damage is done by one motor continuing to drive. Resetting and rehoming is a small price to pay. I reckon that if you are going two-motors rather than one-motor-and-a-long-belt, stall detect is pretty much essential.

Have you worked out how you will home the gantry so it is square?

Desertboy
28-08-2017, 01:09 PM
I use 2 motors for my X axis, and I bought EM806 drivers primarily because of the stall detect. The EM806 is a later version, effectively, of the AM882. That stall detect has saved my machine from potential damage on a number of occasions when I've got something wrong. Typically, I've hit the e-stop because of some silly setup or gcode issue, and as a result the gantry has gone out of square. Not a lot, but enough to cause one end or other to bind on rapid feed somewhere along the rails. I've wired the fault signals from the stepper drivers into the motion controller and the whole machine then stops before any damage is done by one motor continuing to drive. Resetting and rehoming is a small price to pay. I reckon that if you are going two-motors rather than one-motor-and-a-long-belt, stall detect is pretty much essential.

Have you worked out how you will home the gantry so it is square?

I was going to assemble it first then fit (High quality) microswitches both sides of the gantry I need to work out where to fit them because I want them drilled into the aluminium so they can never move, had issues with 3d printer microswitches but they were super cheap, plastic printed mounts a nightmare on the Z. Conversly it's the X&Y that are the hassle with cnc with 3d printing they're nowhere near as important.

I've not looked at Mach 3 or linuxcnc but I have assumed that the microswitchs have some software adjustment to compensate for inaccuracy when fitting the microswitchs I know grbl (And even Marlin for 3d printers both Arduino based) does so would be shocked if they don't.

I figured one step at a time lol make router move and learn Fusion (These are at same time) then start with linuxcnc if I really struggle buy Mach3 but I'd rather use Linuxcnc been a linux used since 2005 big believer in opensource.

I did also consider inductive sensors like I set up on my printer for the Z axis but the microswitchs I'm looking at have very high repeatability and the difference in accuracy between them is marginal, when I checked the datasheets the inductive sensors had a slightly higher accuracy but lower repeatability and in the end they were both in the 0.01mm range with is probably better than my router will be lol.

I have no idea how to make sure the gantry is properly square though in the first place, pretty certain a set square isn't going to cut it lol.

Neale
28-08-2017, 01:33 PM
From what I hear, you are probably on a winner with the LCNC approach. When I built my first router around 5 years ago, it had single motors on each axis so gantry squaring wasn't an issue. Just as well as I was using LCNC which had no capability to home each end of the gantry separately. I ended up going to Mach3 and a CSMIO/IP-M motion controller for the Mk2, with twin X motors. This combination works really well - except that it doesn't home each end of the gantry separately either! However, I understand that this is functionality that is now in LCNC so you should be OK when you get to that point. I have a manual process to get round this but it would have been nice to just press a button and have it all happen automatically.

I've had Z axis microswitch issues on my 3D printer - I know what you mean!

Clive S
28-08-2017, 07:50 PM
I understand that this is functionality that is now in LCNC so you should be OK when you get to that point. I have a manual process to get round this but it would have been nice to just press a button and have it all happen automatically.

Yes you are correct but it is only in the master branch (version 2.8) at this time and you can also alter the homing position on each axis in software just by changing an offset in the Machinexxx.ini file


When it comes to building the PSU will need help

Have a look at Joe's excellent vids on building one.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1FIADAKba_tiLqXbUkzD30sZjtp_VyqY

Desertboy
29-08-2017, 05:16 PM
Can I mix stepper drivers temporarily? I budgeted it out and can afford 3 Am882 and the power supply today and can borrow a DM542T for a couple of months of my mate.

Could I get away with this setup use the AM882's for X&Y and the DM542T for the Z? I would power the DM542T with the 24v and the AM882 with the new build PSU.

I'd buy another AM882 ASAP obviously but would like to start playing.

Nr1madman
29-08-2017, 05:24 PM
Can I mix stepper drivers temporarily? I budgeted it out and can afford 3 Am882 and the power supply today and can borrow a DM542T for a couple of months of my mate.

Could I get away with this setup use the AM882's for X&Y and the DM542T for the Z? I would power the DM542T with the 24v and the AM882 with the new build PSU.

I'd buy another AM882 ASAP obviously but would like to start playing.This should work without a problem ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Neale
29-08-2017, 05:27 PM
No problem with that - I use EM806 for X and Y, and a recycled M752 from my old router for Z. I was able to use the same 68V PSU for all of them but it's fine to run them off separate supplies if needed.

Zeeflyboy
29-08-2017, 05:31 PM
I have no idea how to make sure the gantry is properly square though in the first place, pretty certain a set square isn't going to cut it lol.

Machinist's square is one option, but they are expensive. I got a 200mmx130mm one (square to 0.005mm/150mm or better) from starret for about 80 quid with a 20% off code.

You can make a less perfect square work by flipping it and averaging the results, but once you get into the lower ranges of measurement just the flatness of the edge can become problematic and that's harder to cancel out.

You can also drill a square with diagonals that you can measure with eg a digital calliper (100x100mm square will give an easy to measure distance that your typical digital calliper will reach). Insert some dowels and measure the corner to corner distance. If both corners are equally spaced diagonally then it's square, if one is longer than the other then it's forming a parallelogram and is leaning towards the top corner of the longer diagonal...

One problem you'll probably encounter, which I also have on my current machine, is that your extrusions aren't particularly flat or straight. You will have varying curves along the axis rather than a perfectly straight line which makes fine tuning the squareness extremely difficult if not impossible as it varies from one section of the bed to another... so you just have to do the best you can.

Neale
29-08-2017, 05:47 PM
I used the holes-at-corner-of-100mm-square technique to set up my gantry, and it's surprisingly sensitive to small errors. We're not talking super-accurate toolroom standards here, but for woodworking use it's more than good enough. I used a 6mm drill to make the holes and then 4 more with shanks inserted in holes as dowels. A digital caliper is pretty much essential for this as it's difficult to read a vernier caliper when it's in the middle of the bed.

I wrote a little bit of gcode to drill the holes so that I could guarantee approaching each hole in the same direction to take any backlash out of the equation.

Zeeflyboy
29-08-2017, 05:56 PM
Absolutely... you can theoretically detect around 15 seconds of arc with callipers that have 0.01mm resolution using a 100mm square.

That's about 0.004 degrees

If you nail it to within a couple of hundredth's of a mm then you have a pretty damn square machine. Depending on where I do the square on my machine mine it will be anywhere from about 0.02 to 0.09mm out iirc.

Desertboy
31-08-2017, 12:49 PM
Poor photo's but got the final plate today all lines up ;)

I must have made one of the tightest Z axis ever lol

22697

22698

One more plate to collect tomorrow morning (Needed to have 4 10mm holes enlarged got an engineering firm to do it) and we can finally put it all together.

Been very happy with my nema to ballscrew alignement 3 of the 4 are perfect not tried the 4th one yet (Gantry motor) but I'm hoping we got 4 for 4.

The bolts in the Z axis top plate are 1mm too long at moment so need to cut them down as well.

I was worried about the Z plate most of all and it all seems good there's a couple of holes to counterbore in the Z axis but simple job.

I was going to chop my Hiwin's down for the Z axis but I'm going to leave them sticking over the top of the Z axis so if I do want to rebuild the Z I can get more travel, my travel is just over 8cm at moment.

When the top plate was being made an end mill broke hence the nasty bit on the top where the scratches are. The part is functionally perfect and the spindle mount is bolted onto this plate so it's also not visible so it would be pointless to remake and a waste of money.

The scratches I made when I was filing down round where the end mill had broke.

Big thanks to Chaz for making the plates and it was a pure pleasure to see Thor and an experience to feel her move lol, Thor truly is something else.

Desertboy
31-08-2017, 01:37 PM
Do the AM882's work with 4 wire nema 23's?

Neale
31-08-2017, 02:31 PM
Yes - even 8-wire motors have their windings either in series or parallel so they end up as 4-wire at the driver.

Desertboy
31-08-2017, 02:54 PM
Yes - even 8-wire motors have their windings either in series or parallel so they end up as 4-wire at the driver.

Wondering about the stall protection? Do you know how it works?

Neale
31-08-2017, 03:39 PM
Wondering about the stall protection? Do you know how it works?

Black magic, pure and simple...

Given that there is some kind of microprocessor in the box, I suspect that it can monitor current draw, back EMF, and critical parameters like that. I know it works, but as for how, exactly...

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 09:14 AM
I managed to blag my old man to pay for 2 of my AM882's in exchange for driving 8-10 hours to the docks on Sunday in a week or 2 to collect a truck driver. I can afford another 2 AM882's going to order them on Monday but should I get 3 AM882's and D542T instead? Will I notice the difference putting an AM882 on the Z?

I didn't mention to my old man at the time I will still need a power supply lol, bought a cheap ass breakout board.

My gut is telling me just buy 4 AM882's after all if I have one fail I can get a D524T in 48 hours for £30 and swap the AM882's round to suit.

Of course with AM882's my 2nm look underpowered but my ballscrews are only 1605 so I would need to upgrade to 2510's on the X&Y to be worth also upgrading to 3nm nema 23's or even nema 24's on the Y. Possible future projects ;)

Chaz
01-09-2017, 09:15 AM
I managed to blag my old man to pay for 2 of my AM882's in exchange for driving 8-10 hours to the docks on Sunday in a week or 2 to collect a truck driver. I can afford another 2 AM882's going to order them on Monday but should I get 3 AM882's and D542T instead? Will I notice the difference putting an AM882 on the Z?

I didn't mention to my old man at the time I will still need a power supply lol, bought a cheap ass breakout board.

My gut is telling me just buy 4 AM882's after all if I have one fail I can get a D524T in 48 hours for £30 and swap the AM882's round to suit.

Of course with AM882's my 2nm look underpowered but my ballscrews are only 1605 so I would need to upgrade to 2510's on the X&Y to be worth also upgrading to 3nm nema 23's or even nema 24's on the Y. Possible future projects ;)

I dont know the tech details but buy once and buy right.

My own experience tells me this, otherwise it costs more time / money / problems in the long run.

Clive S
01-09-2017, 09:52 AM
Buy the AM882's you can then using them on another machine if you want to. 2510 screw will not be an upgrade on the machine you are building. Nema 23's 3.1Nm from cnc4you are the one's to buy.

Zeeflyboy
01-09-2017, 01:36 PM
I have to say in general I avoid buying cheap electronics... they are the biggest potential source of headaches and yet generally the easiest thing to transfer across to a new machine.

You definitely won't regret buying the AM882's, and if you decide to sell the machine after building a new one, you can buy those cheaper drivers to put in it then if you want to sell it as a working machine but bring your AM882's across to the new one.

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 02:34 PM
Gantry fits ;) Not bolted in yet just sitting in the recess's.

22699

Again Nema aligns to ballscrew that's 4 for 4 ;)
22700

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 03:28 PM
Buy the AM882's you can then using them on another machine if you want to. 2510 screw will not be an upgrade on the machine you are building. Nema 23's 3.1Nm from cnc4you are the one's to buy.

I've got 2nm nema 23's (2 recovered, 2 brand new) so I will use them for now but noted once I get everything else sorted I will have a look. As soon as I get it working properly I want to order another 1400mm 1605 ballscrew and swap the gantry round to the more traditional shortest span setup.

Nickhofen
01-09-2017, 03:29 PM
Nice! :-)
I see an extra bolt laying in the extrusion groove, what kind of sorcery is that?Lol !

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 03:31 PM
I have to say in general I avoid buying cheap electronics... they are the biggest potential source of headaches and yet generally the easiest thing to transfer across to a new machine.

You definitely won't regret buying the AM882's, and if you decide to sell the machine after building a new one, you can buy those cheaper drivers to put in it then if you want to sell it as a working machine but bring your AM882's across to the new one.

From what I understood if I do sell it I will need to sell it with at least 2 AM882's for stall protection on my Y (Bottom dual ballscrew axis) unless I'm just a bastard lol.

Sage advice though spend more but once rather than 3 times and on the 3rd time buying the thing you should have bought the first time lol.

I've not only been there, done that but I bought 3 printers trying to print the T shirt lol.

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 03:35 PM
Nice! :-)
I see an extra bolt laying in the extrusion groove, what kind of sorcery is that?

I never even noticed that lol would explain the rattling noise the extrusion was making when I trying to get it into the gantry mounts which was not easy.

I had the plates recessed 5mm either side so the extrusion sits tight inside the aluminium plate, I had it made to a tight fit. Trying to get it on was not easy lol but once it slipped into the recess it was super tight and very nice! Top work Chaz making the plates and top work KJN aluminium for cutting the aluminium so accurately.

You can see the recess better on the picture Chaz took ;) The Hiwin's were meant to recess into the plate as well but I got the measurements slightly off and they didn't so rather than try and ground the plate out I chopped 1.5cm off the Hiwin's and then they don't need to be recessed.
22701

And Nice one Zeeflyboy on the plate advice I used 20mm tooling plate for the gantry mounts, 15mm tooling plate for the back of the Z axis and 20mm tooling plate for the front of the Z axis. The rest was made from recovered aluminium (Nema mounts, BK12/BF12 mounts & spacers). I cannot believe I was going to go with 3mm steel for the gantry mounts that would have been pointless exercise in futility.

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 05:18 PM
Stupid question probably but where do I use the circlip that came with the BK12/BF12 fittings? Not seen any decent vids on how to actually assemble the ballscrew & fittings seems easy enough but the circlip is confusing me lol.

I'm guessing the circlip goes the floating end? But could have done with some instructions lol.

Clive S
01-09-2017, 05:39 PM
Stupid question probably but where do I use the circlip that came with the BK12/BF12 fittings? Not seen any decent vids on how to actually assemble the ballscrew & fittings seems easy enough but the circlip is confusing me lol.

I'm guessing the circlip goes the floating end? But could have done with some instructions lol.

On the floating end of the screw BF end there is a groove for the circlip that goes on after the bearing. The the BF block will slide on the bearing and should sit about half way in. The reason is so that if the screw expands it can do so at the BF end as the bearing will slide in the block.

Desertboy
02-09-2017, 04:08 PM
Assembled a bit more started to think about energy chain placement.
22705
22706

there's 2 bolts in the BK12 mounts that bolt into T nuts but 1 of them is counterbored and under the BK12, The A2's are then upside down and bolted from above was difficult to do forgot I meant to change the A2 bore to a captive nut but worked out ok in the end. Every bolt has a non slip washer under it.

22707
22708

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 11:46 AM
My AM882'S have being ordered today delivery time is quoted at 7 to 12 working days, so looking at the PSU next.

Does anyone know how the stall protection works? Looking at the manual it sets a pin high until power reset? in which case I could make it work with the Arduino but got a breakout board and a core duo with a parallel port to run linux cnc on.

Went 2nd hand (Cheapest on ebay) of course lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Used-AM882H-Leadshine-Stepper-Motor-Driver-80V-8-2A-with-Sensorless-Detection-/221844783674?hash=item33a6fac23a:g:rpAAAOSwe-FVAS~f

4 of them, 2 reasons this has quick shipping (1-2 weeks) the new ones at ~£65 have 4-6 weeks shipping and well I save almost £70 which will pay nicely for the PSU and buy a couple more breakout boards (£3 each should buy spares).

They offer a year's warranty which is pretty much worthless lol but I bet they'll be fine for many years to come unless my wiring is dodgy. Going to solder my wires to extend them and make sure the soldered points do not move!

Clive S
04-09-2017, 04:18 PM
Does anyone know how the stall protection works? Looking at the manual it sets a pin high until power reset? in which case I could make it work with the Arduino but got a breakout board and a core duo with a parallel port to run linux cnc on.


Why would you even consider an Arduino What are you going to drive it with? Remember a simple BOB will only have 5 inputs. You will need two for slaved homing that means three left unless you put two PP's in the PC.


Going to solder my wires to extend them and make sure the soldered points do not move!
What wires?

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 05:39 PM
Why would you even consider an Arduino What are you going to drive it with? Remember a simple BOB will only have 5 inputs. You will need two for slaved homing that means three left unless you put two PP's in the PC.

What wires?

My nema 23 wiring isn't long enough so need to extend it was intending to make sure the soldered connections don't have stresses on them, I was going to use an arduino originally and I will connect it up just to make sure all the axis are moving properly whilst I'm waiting for the AM882's.

Some of my nema's have plugs crimped onto them so I could test the motors but will cut the plugs off and solder the wires.

Clive S
04-09-2017, 06:40 PM
My nema 23 wiring isn't long enough so need to extend it was intending to make sure the soldered connections don't have stresses on them, I was going to use an arduino originally and I will connect it up just to make sure all the axis are moving properly whilst I'm waiting for the AM882's.

Some of my nema's have plugs crimped onto them so I could test the motors but will cut the plugs off and solder the wires.

Are they 4 wire or 8 wire steppers

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 06:43 PM
Are they 4 wire or 8 wire steppers

All 4 are 4 wire steppers

Clive S
04-09-2017, 06:53 PM
All 4 are 4 wire steppers

ok that's a shame because the coils will be probably be wired in series. 8 wired one's can be wired both ways.

Zeeflyboy
04-09-2017, 08:11 PM
I assume the stall protection is automatic in the driver... I don't have the AM882's but mine just does it all automatically - The only extra wiring to consider is the alarm wiring that then lets the motion controller know there has been a fault so that it stops rather than tries to carry on with an axis dead.

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 08:35 PM
Are they 4 wire or 8 wire steppers

If I find them underpowered (3 of them are 2nm and the one on the Z axis is 1.6nm) I'll replace 3 of them for the X&Y with 8 wire nema 3nm+ nema 23's and swap one of the 2nm onto the Z axis.

That can wait for me to build it up now, too many other things to spend money on in the short term lol it's a never ending hole

If I find it works ok though I probably won't upgrade and start thinking about making router No.2 the one I actually wanted to make in the first place lol but decided to make a simple test router first to get and idea of what I'm doing. Also need that vac forming machine ;)

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 08:37 PM
I assume the stall protection is automatic in the driver... I don't have the AM882's but mine just does it all automatically - The only extra wiring to consider is the alarm wiring that then lets the motion controller know there has been a fault so that it stops rather than tries to carry on with an axis dead.

Looking at the AM882 manual this does look to be the case, which drivers have you got?

Clive S
05-09-2017, 11:14 AM
If I find them underpowered (3 of them are 2nm and the one on the Z axis is 1.6nm) I'll replace 3 of them for the X&Y with 8 wire nema 3nm+ nema 23's and swap one of the 2nm onto the Z axis.


i think that they will be under powered especially if you are using R & P

Desertboy
05-09-2017, 12:43 PM
i think that they will be under powered especially if you are using R & P

I'm using 1604mm ballscrews (twin) on the Y, and 1605 on the X and Z. I want to build an 8*4 soonish and I think I'd like to use R&P on that for speed but since then I found you can buy commercial 8*4 routers relatively cheaply at auction or on ebay which make building one a lot less attractive.

When I bought the ballscrews I didn't know what 1604 and 1605 meant lol in retrospect I would have gone with 2010's as the price difference wasn't a lotbut then of course I definitely need the bigger motors I see cnc4you do a 4nm nema 23

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema23-4Nm/Stepper-Motor-4Nm-60BYGH401-03-x-3-Nema23

I wonder if I bought 3 of these (6amp) and swapped one of my 2nm motor's (3amp) to the Z axis will 1 650va toroidal transformers be enough? If I did it I'd swap the ballscrews over to 10mm pitch to double the speed. It's unlikely I will try to mill much aluminium on this but if I do I won't be doing it in the middle lol I'll do it at the edges closest to the Hiwin's to reduce flex on the gantry.

Clive S
05-09-2017, 02:27 PM
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Mo...-03-x-3-Nema23

I wonder if I bought 3 of these (6amp) and swapped one of my 2nm motor's (3amp) to the Z axis will 1 650va toroidal transformers be enough? If I did it I'd swap the ballscrews over to 10mm pitch to double the speed. It's unlikely I will try to mill much aluminium on this but if I do I won't be doing it in the middle lol I'll do it at the edges closest to the Hiwin's to reduce flex on the gantry.


IN my opinion that would be fine.

Desertboy
05-09-2017, 04:50 PM
Looking through the AM882 manual I found this interesting

"6. Power Supply Selection
The AM882 can match medium and small size stepping motors (from NEMA frame size 14 to 34) made by Leadshine or other motor manufactures around the world. To achieve good driving performances, it is important to select supply voltage and output current properly. Generally speaking, supply voltage determines the high speed performance of the motor, while output current determines the output torque of the driven motor (particularly at lower speed). Higher supply voltage will allow higher motor speed to be achieved, at the price of more noise and heating. If the motion speed requirement is low, it’s better to use lower supply voltage to decrease noise, heating and improve reliability.


Regulated or Unregulated Power Supply
Both regulated and unregulated power supplies can be used to supply the drive. However, unregulated power supplies are preferred due to their ability to withstand current surge. If regulated power supplies (such as most switching supplies.) are indeed used, it is important to have large current output rating to avoid problems like current clamp, for example using 4A supply for 3A motor-drive operation. On the other hand, if unregulated supply is used, one may use a power supply of lower current rating than that of motor (typically 50%~70% of motor current). The reason is that the drive draws current from the power supply capacitor of the unregulated supply only during the ON duration of the PWM cycle, but not during the OFF duration. Therefore, the average current withdrawn from power supply is considerably less than motor current. For example, two 3A motors can be well supplied by one power supply of 4A rating.

Multiple Drives
It is recommended to have multiple drives to share one power supply to reduce cost, if the supply has enough capacity. To avoid cross interference,
DO NOT daisy-chain the power supply input pins of the drives. Instead, please connect them to power supply separately.

Selecting Supply Voltage
The power MOSFETS inside the AM882 can actually operate within +20 ~ +80VDC, including power input fluctuation and back EMF voltage generated by motor coils during motor shaft deceleration. Higher supply voltage can increase motor torque at higher speeds, thus helpful for avoiding losing steps. However, higher voltage may cause bigger motor vibration at lower speed, and it may also cause over-voltage protection or even drive damage. Therefore, it is suggested to choose
only sufficiently high supply voltage for intended applications, and it is suggested to use power supplies with theoretical output voltage of +20 ~ +72VDC, leaving room for power fluctuation and back-EMF. "

I take it I'm building an unregulated PSU?

Clive S
05-09-2017, 05:08 PM
I take it I'm building an unregulated PSU?


Yes if you followed the links I posted

Desertboy
05-09-2017, 05:34 PM
Yes if you followed the links I posted

Going to buy the bits you linked to from rapidonline ;)

I'm reading Joe's excellent thread right now but started at the beginning of the thread so taking a while to get to the PSU posts but I think I've got it sorted in my head had a good read around other sites and it seems really simple.

Transformer steps down the voltage, bridge rectifier converts it to DC, capacitors smooth out the DC more capacitors smoother DC.

Looking for a suitable terminal block like Joe has I found them on ebay but take too long from China so need to find a UK equivalent.

e2a found some
https://www.rapidonline.com/truconnect-4-way-screw-to-screw-barrier-terminal-block-21-3073

Desertboy
06-09-2017, 08:25 AM
Clive S would it be worth getting a pci parallel port and a 2nd breakout board? Cost is only £15 for both. I have no idea how to wire up and configure one board never mind 2 lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGtdsXhXiEM :)

Ordered bits for power supply £90 in the end

I got the 25v transformer you linked to Clive only 1 left now ;) I also got 4 capacitors instead of 3, capacitor holers, some barrier terminal connectors, bridge rectifier and 5m of red wire, 5m black wire 2.5mm core.

Now I have no excuse not to have the power supply working before the drivers come.

Had to order 3 more sets of bolts to finish building the router they will be here Friday most of the Z axis is built up now my travel is pitiful around 7cm. If I remake one of the Z axis plates I can get almost 17cm of travel so will do that shortly need to score some 20mm thick tooling plate don't fancy paying £15 delivery on £8 of tooling plate lol.

7cm is actually more than enough for what I plan with the machine but might as well get the extra travel sorted sooner than later and an interesting early project for my machine.

They've shipped everything except my cabling which will be a week :(

That's really annoying eyeing up my heated bed on the 3d printer that has 2.5mm wire and would give the excuse to swap the red mk2 heated bed to the mk3 I got ages ago but never wired up.

Desertboy
07-09-2017, 12:12 PM
Z axis, I need some bolts to finish it off they were ordered yesterday will come tomorrow. I could have used normal bolts but since everything is A2 socket caps I thought I might as well stick with them and buy more. I haven't cut the Hiwin's down so I can remake the Z axis to get more travel
22731

22732
Finally worked out how to fit energy chain, no way going to fit my water lines in the chain but at least the wiring will be ok, glad I bought chunkier chain for the Y axis as it will have another cable in it.

Parts came for the PSU this morning will build up over the weekend hopefully, I bought 4 capacitors instead of 3 should I fit all 4?
https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-hc2a478m35040ha-4700uf-100v-85deg-hc-snap-in-capacitor-11-3121

Clive S
07-09-2017, 12:42 PM
Parts came for the PSU this morning will build up over the weekend hopefully, I bought 4 capacitors instead of 3 should I fit all 4?
https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-h...acitor-11-3121


Personally I would only use 3 caps. Re the pci PP it can't do any harm. The attachments above don't appear to work.

Desertboy
07-09-2017, 12:47 PM
Personally I would only use 3 caps. Re the pci PP it can't do any harm. The attachments above don't appear to work.

Try again with the attachments

22733

22734

I bought 4 because I wanted a spare so I'll go with 3 ;)

the company I bought 4 AM882's from contacted me today they only have 2 so told them to ship them and refund the difference and bought 2 from HK angry though as I was expecting them to arrive next week now going to be at least 2 :(

When I finish the router and it moves properly I'm going to buy 1 3nm nema straight away to swap onto the X so I can swap the 2nm to the Z axis as I have a gap is bigger than I thought between the ballscrew and nema and the longer shaft of the 2nm motors are a perfect fit.

Desertboy
08-09-2017, 02:11 PM
22753

22755

Still got to drill the spindle mount out, bolts are going through the spindle mount them through the top Z axis plate, through aluminium spacers and into the Hiwin carriages directly.

Desertboy
08-09-2017, 08:47 PM
ignore wrong thread

Desertboy
09-09-2017, 08:02 AM
Really am going to need to fit a dedicated 32amp line to the consumer unit, checked out the vacuum cleaners I have and 1 is 2.2kw and the other 1.8kw so if I use them both at once then that's 4kw lol.

What I need is an 800w cleaner for the dust shoe I think and dig out my vac pump or buy a 2nd hand one. At work I have infinite access to lorry air tanks (Used for the air brakes, raising suspension, etc) for free was thinking I could use a couple of them as vacuum tanks to increase the capacity of the vacuum pumps. I have compressed air on tap so less point fitting them for air.

I wonder how safe the air tanks are if I draw a vacuum on them, I think it would be wise to put them in some sort of box to give some protection against failure.

Was reading if I surface the MDF 1/16th both sides then I'll remove the non porous skin and the mdf will be permeable enough to suck through without holes I'm definitely going to have to try that.

Desertboy
09-09-2017, 01:26 PM
Tried to spin my nema's up with the cncshield and arduino but no luck just a ticking sound from the motor's. I've spun all the motors up using a ramps board so will have to drag my printer to the machine to try again annoyed.

Desertboy
10-09-2017, 08:20 AM
Bought myself a cheap spanner/ratchet set from banggood, missing 1/2 my spanners so have to borrow off others and they are getting annoyed.

https://www.banggood.com/12pcs-Professional-Fixed-Head-Spanners-Ratchet-Wrench-Socket-Spanner-Set-6-19mm-p-1047466.html?rmmds=search

click the EU warehouse and only £20 (£7 cheaper than China) now that never happens lol, uber cheap for Chrome Vandium. It's also good to have some cheap spanners so you whack them with a hammer which my snap on set is too expesnive for that sort of crap lol

I have 1/2 a snap on set and 1/2 a bluelight set (It's always the same ones missing lol)

13mm and 22mm are destined to always be in someone elses box, although I no longer need 22mm.

Desertboy
10-09-2017, 12:14 PM
22773
22774
She moves! At least the gantry and Z axis not tried Y axis because of the dual ballscrew, will wait for the AM882's.

Nickhofen
10-09-2017, 12:56 PM
Very nice!

Desertboy
10-09-2017, 01:03 PM
Thanks been a long slog but so glad I didn't buy an Xcarve and built my own ;) For a long time I was toying with buying an Xcarve (Or Shapeoko)but I had the extrusion and I found this site and the next thing you know I have Hiwin's and ballscrews instead of a belt and some skateboard bearings lol.

22775

AlexDoran
11-09-2017, 05:07 PM
Just had a quick scan through, machine looks great mate, can't wait to see some vids of it moving.

Alex

Zeeflyboy
11-09-2017, 05:49 PM
Excellent... what’s first on the list to cut?

Desertboy
11-09-2017, 06:04 PM
Excellent... what’s first on the list to cut?

Making an arcade table for my mate's 40th bday, going to buy a decent solid oak (Or wallnut) table 2nd hand and rip it to pieces and reprocess the wood using the router.

I want to make him something quite trendy looking, 22" lcd embedded in the table top, controllers in a drawer so when it's off it's just a coffee table.

A_Camera
11-09-2017, 06:07 PM
22707

I suggest you replace those couplers before you start using your machine with Lovejoy/Oldham couplers. The one you have now are going to cause you trouble and eventually snap.

Desertboy
11-09-2017, 07:04 PM
I suggest you replace those couplers before you start using your machine with Lovejoy/Oldham couplers. The one you have now are going to cause you trouble and eventually snap.

I have got them on the list of things to do but I think it'll be a month or 2 before I can afford them need to buy the bits for my mates arcade table first so will probably use these couplings till after xmas and look at upgrading then. I can do the motor's at same time and only have to buy the hubs once.

I think I got the nema's aligned straight enough for oldham couplings.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Oldham-Couplings

I'm guessing I have to use 2 hubs and a torque disc?

A_Camera
11-09-2017, 07:18 PM
Yes, you need 2 hubs and one disc for each screw/motor. Actually you could also make those on your machine, which could save you the costs. I think they are pretty easy to make.

Desertboy
13-09-2017, 03:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OOchTMpJU&feature=youtu.be

Very slow movement with the ramps board ;) I had to explain to my dad that it would run quicker with the better electronics and PSU lol, I was repeatedly homing the Axis which is slow anyway.

I finally bolted the bed together as well so all 28 bolts are in now, I will add another 4 pieces of 4545 to the bed at some point but bolted in with corners and T nuts because I'm not taking this frame apart for no man lol.

Nr1madman
13-09-2017, 07:17 PM
Movement!!! :D
Im a bit jelous!!
Looks good but I understand that the speed (or lack of) is frustrating hehe

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Nickhofen
13-09-2017, 08:33 PM
Moves good,looks good!:-)

routercnc
13-09-2017, 08:51 PM
Well done!
First movement is always to be celebrated! That is when you start to treat it like a machine rather than a collection of inanimate objects.

You say this is on a tight budget but it's got the right sort of bits and it will clearly cut stuff out for you. Keep going and you will be rewarded.

Desertboy
14-09-2017, 08:17 AM
I call her Betty but it wasn't until she moved that I felt she was a Betty. After Betty Boo ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3U7FyKdBS4 I was 13 when this came out lol now I feel old.

2 of the AM882's came robbing bastard UPS charged me £11.50 processing fee because I had £11 import tax, I will keep an eye on this in future UPS are scum make sure stuff is not shipped with them ever again.

scooterist007
14-09-2017, 01:51 PM
You feel old, I was 20 when this came out!

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Desertboy
14-09-2017, 06:51 PM
You feel old, I was 20 when this came out!

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

I was going to suggest we should all have a meet but I doubt you could get all our zimmer frames through the door lol.

Zeeflyboy
14-09-2017, 07:56 PM
Sadly all the couriers (and indeed royal mail) have a very cheeky fee for paying the duty on your behalf... the only way around it really is either getting away without paying any duty in the first place, or buying with the duty pre-paid as is sometimes an option on ebay.

It's a fixed fee so not so bad when the duty is a couple hundred, but can seem very unfair to be paying more in extra courier fees than in import duty itself.

Machine is looking great and I agree, although your original budget went out the window I think you have built a very good machine for the money.

Desertboy
14-09-2017, 09:52 PM
I think my single greatest influence on here in how I built my machine was you Zeeflyboy, I saw your build was jealous lol.

I'm really glad I listened to your advice on 20mm plates, 15mm would have been too weak especially given I recessed the extrusion and 25mm too much given the size of Hiwin's.

the 15mm Hiwin's have 2 issues I see M4's are a PITA and the greasing is worse.

For the short term I'm going to directly oil my rail but longer term I will fit proper greasing points. I want to rebuild the Z completely, change the nema mounts and make it look a lot neater I give no shits about how it looks but as soon as I'm comfortable with the machine I want to build another one and flog this one then look becomes important.

I've limited my travel on the Z and the Y due to simple design mistakes made because I never cad the ballscrews and just worked off the engineering drawing's to give me the positions to align the DSG ballnut mounts. These are simple fixes on the Y it increases the travel from 85cm to 90cm which is no biggie but the Z axis I can go from 8cm to 20cm which is.

Still have 2 * 1.3m of SBR25 with 8 new bearings and 1 70cm piece just wondering what could I do with it? Thinking ballscrew driven vacuum former but it's crazy mad man plan cackle, cackle, mad scientist wink.

Desertboy
15-09-2017, 08:47 AM
http://www.southwestcnc.co.uk/joints.html

hmmm interesting joints for cnc machining although I had my own ideas of how to create a custom joint that looks good.

Desertboy
15-09-2017, 04:46 PM
Started the PSU build quick question,

where do the grey and violet leads go I assume this is 1/2 the input coil?

22788

22789

I have 2 primary cores 115v and 2 secondary cores 25v.

Not quite as pro as Joe's build I did it all by eye with a dewalt lol. And yes that's the side off a pc case lovely recycling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OoQQg76ar4&list=PL1FIADAKba_tiLqXbUkzD30sZjtp_VyqY&index=1

Big props to Clive S and Joe Harris ;)

22793
I think I need to connect blue and brown together and grey & violet to the mains?

I'll have the spade terminals for the bridge rectifier but do I solder to the capacitor's directly? And how do I ID which is live and neutral on the capacitor?

Clive S
15-09-2017, 05:21 PM
Ok what does it say on the side of the transformer

If the schematic that you have shown has come with the transformer then follow it.

on the sec. side short yel and black together then red and orange go to the AC side of the rectifier.

on the primary side short grey and violet together and connect the mains to brown and blue.

Before you connect the caps up measure the voltage on the secondary side of the transformer (it should be around 50v AC) With the caps connected DC side it should be about 70v dc (DON'T TOUCH THE CAPS WHEN THEY ARE CHARGED as they will bite you) without a load on they will stay charged for a long time.

Clive S
15-09-2017, 05:59 PM
I think I need to connect blue and brown together and grey & violet to the mains?


See my other post also the yellow and black are incorrect. The secondary wires go to the AC side on the rectifier you appear to have leads on the DC side

Edit turn the caps around in the holders so that all the +ve are on one side (you have them all in a straight line)

Desertboy
15-09-2017, 06:19 PM
Ok what does it say on the side of the transformer

If the schematic that you have shown has come with the transformer then follow it.

on the sec. side short yel and black together then red and orange go to the AC side of the rectifier.

on the primary side short grey and violet together and connect the mains to brown and blue.

Before you connect the caps up measure the voltage on the secondary side of the transformer (it should be around 50v AC) With the caps connected DC side it should be about 70v dc (DON'T TOUCH THE CAPS WHEN THEY ARE CHARGED as they will bite you) without a load on they will stay charged for a long time.

Nice one! The diagram was from the datasheet on rapidonline's website.

I was using joe's psu as a guide
22794

On Joe's he's connected the red & orange together, blue and brown are going to the mains, then he only has yellow and black (1 primary core I guess) which he has going at diagonal across the rectifier. I didn't really get what was going on how Joe has it wired but what you said is how I thought it should work ;)

I'll connect a 10k resistor like Joe across the outputs to discharge the capacitors but will avoid them been bitten more than once repairing ps2's.

Looking at the rectifier datasheet I can now see why it's connected diagonal

22795

Desertboy
16-09-2017, 10:52 AM
Power is turned off on the estate for 24 hours whilst they upgrade the transformers (They've added 22 acres of warehousing on our estate in 2 years!) so having a relaxing weekend.

So time for some tunes

https://youtu.be/aVevvbFNKiY

AlexDoran
19-09-2017, 10:05 AM
You think UPS are bad, DHL charge you for just importing the damn parcel even if there's no tax on it.

Desertboy
19-09-2017, 01:35 PM
You think UPS are bad, DHL charge you for just importing the damn parcel even if there's no tax on it.

Fedex were real good I got charged £15 on my ballscrews not sure how much was there charge if any. I got lucky as they cost over £250 so £15 was peanuts.

They were marked as 2nd hand value $5 each good old Chinese. Customs didn't buy it but they also didn't put the £55 they should have ;)

Desertboy
21-09-2017, 04:56 PM
Had to go work at 4am this morning and then drive for 11 hours so not in the mood lol but when I got back work a nice surprise the other AM882's came with NO import tax!

Just luck of the draw but now have all 4 so really have no excuse to get her cutting this weekend ;)

Including the import tax I paid £215 for all 4 2nd hand not sure how good a deal that is compared to new from UK.

22844

Spindle is on
22845

My spindle mount drilling is atrocious (Table slipped) some how I got it on straight and tight but I'm going to buy another one and use my machine to get it straight this time. I won't chuck the old one though I will fill the holes with chemical metal and then when I rebuild the Z axis I will use 2 spindle mounts one on top the other to get a really tight spindle.

£17 for another mount not the worst mistake and it will work for now.

I would really like joystick control and digital readout wondering if Linuxcnc would support this with an analog joystick. I'm thinking get a flight sim stick and a throttle then if possible I could use the throttle for spindle speed now that would be uber cool if you had an air cooled spindle you could literally close your eyes and pretend your in a plane lol.

e2a ordered another mount will do it right next time not worth messing about, will take me at least a few days to wire this up.

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 11:48 AM
22850

I'm confused where everything goes and how to wire it up. I'll try and explain what I understand please correct me where wrong I normally am lol.

I can see the X, Y, Z & A pul/dir go to the AM882's, the power from the stepper motor PSU goes directly to the drivers not through the BOB.

I think the limit switches one wire to each input and the other wire to the shared gnd? I need 2 limit switches for my Y and 1 for my X can I reconfigure the Z axis limit to be my 2nd Y? I want to set linuxcnc up so it squares the gantry. I'm going to use microswitches for now but I might use inductive sensor instead do I simply find 12v for the sensor elsewhere and wire 1 wire to the Axis input and 1 to the GND?

Tool setting is this the input you would run a probe to? Again is it a shared gnd?

Emergency stop run my stop button to it AND the outputs from the AM882 for stall protection.

I believe I don't need the enable pin out

PWM must be pulse width modulation but for what?

PC GND and the 2 PC 5v outputs where do they go?

the spindle on/off and 0-10v are self expanatory but the 12-24v is that an input for driving the board? If not what is it used for. I thought the board was powered by 5v from the USB socket.

What does the relay jumper do?

Thanks
Desertboy

Clive S
22-09-2017, 01:03 PM
I think the limit switches one wire to each input and the other wire to the shared gnd? I need 2 limit switches for my Y and 1 for my X can I reconfigure the Z axis limit to be my 2nd Y? I want to set linuxcnc up so it squares the gantry. I'm going to use microswitches for now but I might use inductive sensor instead do I simply find 12v for the sensor elsewhere and wire 1 wire to the Axis input and 1 to the GND?


You are going to have a problem with this bob because you won't have enough inputs to do what you are trying to do.
for instance that bob and most simple bobs only have 5 inputs. You will need two for the homing for the slaved axis. Then you have all the limits they can be wired in series to one input that leaves two. you have to home Z and the other axis. So the probe is out of the question.


Emergency stop run my stop button to it AND the outputs from the AM882 for stall protection.
The E/S button would not be connected to the stall on the EM882 This should be cutting power to the drives power supplies etc. though a contactor or whatever.


the 12-24v is that an input for driving the board? If not what is it used for. I thought the board was powered by 5v from the USB socket.


The 12-24v power is for the inputs and the 5V is to power the BOB. connect the two power -ve together. I would not use power from the usb for anything.

If you are using linuxcnc I would download the 2.8 master branch and get to see how it works. Also I would connect one thing up at a time and see if it works as intended then move on to the next problem.

edit:
What does the relay jumper do? this changes what pin 17 will do, you have two choices either the relay OR the B axis dir. You can't have both.

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 01:29 PM
You are going to have a problem with this bob because you won't have enough inputs to do what you are trying to do.
for instance that bob and most simple bobs only have 5 inputs. You will need two for the homing for the slaved axis. Then you have all the limits they can be wired in series to one input that leaves two. you have to home Z and the other axis. So the probe is out of the question.


The E/S button would not be connected to the stall on the EM882 This should be cutting power to the drives power supplies etc. though a contactor or whatever.



The 12-24v power is for the inputs and the 5V is to power the BOB. connect the two power -ve together. I would not use power from the usb for anything.

If you are using linuxcnc I would download the 2.8 master branch and get to see how it works. Also I would connect one thing up at a time and see if it works as intended then move on to the next problem.

I ordered a 2nd BOB and PCI parallel port card would this give me the extra inputs I need?

I was going to run 5v from a molex connection on the PC PSU to a usb plug would this be ok? I assume you just don't want to use a real usb port on a pc the connection itself is reliable.

Not worried about probe for now I just want it to work I know that at some point the BOB will have to go in favour of a proper controller but we can worry about that after xmas ;)

If I don't stop spending money on this router soon it will be a crap Xmas lol.

Clive S
22-09-2017, 01:44 PM
I ordered a 2nd BOB and PCI parallel port card would this give me the extra inputs I need?You can if you can configure the pci PP ok but you are giving yourself a big learning curve.

Re the 5V then connect it to the terminals on the bob.

If it was me in your position with no knowledge on Linuxcnc then I would get the router working with Mach3 first. Remember you have also to build the game table as well. I think you missed your September deadline:culpability:

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 01:59 PM
You can if you can configure the pci PP ok but you are giving yourself a big learning curve.

Re the 5V then connect it to the terminals on the bob.

If it was me in your position with no knowledge on Linuxcnc then I would get the router working with Mach3 first. Remember you have also to build the game table as well. I think you missed your September deadline:culpability:

October 18th is the day but we already planned around it ;)

Instead of struggling the plan is to try and hit November 18th and with my mates GF help going to get the cabinet installed whilst he's at work ;) It'll be a hell of a Bday surprise 1 month late lol but he'll never see it coming.

I'd rather make it right then make it crap even if I do miss the date, I already know I'm going to build at least 2 tables, the first one a mockup and the 2nd one hopefully will be the delivered item. I've spent a long time looking at joints for wood I think the key to making the table uber nice is excellent quality wood and good joints going to be a proper real wood table no laminated MDF shit.

I'm going to have a go with linuxcnc (I have compiled gentoo from source so not completely unfamiliar with linux itself) but if I can't get it to work within a couple of days I'll have to go mach 3 route but hadn't budgeted for a copy and also I like linux I get a kick out of open source. I always use open source software if appropriate so I have libreoffice and gimp which does everything I need it to unlike my friends that have crap pirated copies of office and photoshop to type a letter or resize images lol.

I've done some of the graphics for printing on the marquee plates, I'm going to embed them under the glass one below the monitor and one above it, monitor will be mount into the table.

This is one of them22855

getting my mates signature without him knowing wasn't easy lol but he wrote the game on the nokia phone so it seemed appropriate.

Neale
23-09-2017, 09:11 AM
Another opinion...

5 BOB inputs is just enough. I'm assuming you are using microswitches here - it gets a whole lot more messy if you want to use inductive sensors. All limit switches and home switches can be wired in series to one BOB input except the X slave home switch which must have its own input. I would only use one X limit switch, BTW - that should be fine. One input for touch plate. One input for estop and fault signals in series. This is because a motor stall fault needs everything to stop fast before the gantry gets twisted sideways. And there's still one input spare!

If you really wanted, you could take the Y home switch to the spare input. This buys you the ability to simultaneously home X and Y to save a second or two during homing. I've done that on my machine just because it looks neat but it's hardly essential.

I'm afraid I don't know how slave axis homing works with LCNC - I switched to Mach3 from LCNC before slave homing became available.

I would take 5V to the 5V input terminals. The 12-24V input is for a separate PSU and you would need that to use the 0-10V analogue output for VFD speed control. Otherwise the BOB can't generate enough output volts from the 5V supply - common problem with 5V BOBs.

Desertboy
23-09-2017, 10:27 AM
Another opinion...

5 BOB inputs is just enough. I'm assuming you are using microswitches here - it gets a whole lot more messy if you want to use inductive sensors. All limit switches and home switches can be wired in series to one BOB input except the X slave home switch which must have its own input. I would only use one X limit switch, BTW - that should be fine. One input for touch plate. One input for estop and fault signals in series. This is because a motor stall fault needs everything to stop fast before the gantry gets twisted sideways. And there's still one input spare!

If you really wanted, you could take the Y home switch to the spare input. This buys you the ability to simultaneously home X and Y to save a second or two during homing. I've done that on my machine just because it looks neat but it's hardly essential.

I'm afraid I don't know how slave axis homing works with LCNC - I switched to Mach3 from LCNC before slave homing became available.

I would take 5V to the 5V input terminals. The 12-24V input is for a separate PSU and you would need that to use the 0-10V analogue output for VFD speed control. Otherwise the BOB can't generate enough output volts from the 5V supply - common problem with 5V BOBs.

Thanks, that makes sense I'm going to have 2 mini towers next to each other one with a pc in it and the other with the PSU, AM882's and BOB so I can get 12v easy from the pc. In fact it's the same hassle to get 5v as 12v.

Clive S
23-09-2017, 10:44 AM
I would take 5V to the 5V input terminals. The 12-24V input is for a separate PSU and you would need that to use the 0-10V analogue output for VFD speed control. Otherwise the BOB can't generate enough output volts from the 5V supply - common problem with 5V BOBs.

Neale As I understand it the 12-24v is also required for the inputs as well. I don't think the inputs work without it. (could be wrong though)

Desertboy
23-09-2017, 10:53 AM
Neale As I understand it the 12-24v is also required for the inputs as well. I don't think the inputs work without it. (could be wrong though)

Do you mean the limit switches? I wonder if they work like on an arduino/ramps combo with pull up resistors (Which you can toggle on/off) I know the inputs from the microswitches are 5v on the arduino as I had to use resistors to get the 12v from the inductive sensor down to 5v so I didn't fry the arduino and disable the pullup resistors. But when you use microswitches you have pullup resistors enabled and wire direct.

I do have an inductive probe that works reliably at 5v but running at 5v's reduces the detection distance so I would use a chunkier probe at 12v if I go this route.

I think though decent quality microswitches fitted properly will have high enough accuracy I wouldn't see a difference in real world performance.

Neale
23-09-2017, 11:46 AM
Plenty of people use microswitches, and that will probably be fine. I use inductive sensors, as much as anything for convenience in mounting, but in practice I doubt that you will have any issues. The other point is that once you start wiring inductive sensors in series to share a single BOB input, you need to make sure that you have enough volts to drive them as there is a bit lost in each sensor in the chain. I'm putting this crudely and hoping that the experts will let me off this time!

Do you have a pointer to any documentation on the BOB? My guess is that it will work fine with just a 5V feed. However, I doubt that the inputs have pull-up resistors as they are probably opto-isolated and pull-ups are a little bit trickier in that case. It's not like the Arduino where you connect directly to the input pins on the CPU chip. On the plus side, it's a bit more difficult to blow up a BOB than an Arduino! I strongly suspect that if you connect the switches (just one, or a number of them in series) between +5V and the BOB input, it will work fine, but I wouldn't guarantee that without looking at the documentation for the BOB, or even a sample "this is how you wire it" diagram.

Desertboy
23-09-2017, 11:57 AM
Plenty of people use microswitches, and that will probably be fine. I use inductive sensors, as much as anything for convenience in mounting, but in practice I doubt that you will have any issues. The other point is that once you start wiring inductive sensors in series to share a single BOB input, you need to make sure that you have enough volts to drive them as there is a bit lost in each sensor in the chain. I'm putting this crudely and hoping that the experts will let me off this time!

Do you have a pointer to any documentation on the BOB? My guess is that it will work fine with just a 5V feed. However, I doubt that the inputs have pull-up resistors as they are probably opto-isolated and pull-ups are a little bit trickier in that case. It's not like the Arduino where you connect directly to the input pins on the CPU chip. On the plus side, it's a bit more difficult to blow up a BOB than an Arduino! I strongly suspect that if you connect the switches (just one, or a number of them in series) between +5V and the BOB input, it will work fine, but I wouldn't guarantee that without looking at the documentation for the BOB, or even a sample "this is how you wire it" diagram.

There was no documentation with my quality £3.30 (Delivered) BOB from China lol I found the pinout online for an identical board.

https://warp9td.com/images/BOB_Vendors/StepperOnline/ST-V2.pdf

I have tried to tight ass my build but only semi successfully lol.

Clive S
23-09-2017, 05:21 PM
There was no documentation with my quality £3.30 (Delivered) BOB from China lol I found the pinout online for an identical board.

https://warp9td.com/images/BOB_Vendors/StepperOnline/ST-V2.pdf

I have tried to tight ass my build but only semi successfully lol.

For those that are interested I can confirm that the bob in question does need both 5V and 12-24v to get it to work.

Also when say 12v is applied I can also confirm that the input pins are pulled high so that a simple switch to ground will be fine.

Desertboy
23-09-2017, 05:23 PM
For those that are interested I can confirm that the bob in question does need both 5V and 12-24v to get it to work.

Also when say 12v is applied I can also confirm that the input pins are pulled high so that a simple switch to ground will be fine.

You are THE MAN!!!

Neale
23-09-2017, 05:24 PM
If that's the right doc for the board (sure looks like it!) then what I said above is correct, but connect one end of switch (or set of switches in series) to ground and other end to input pin. That's what the diagram in the doc is doing. Nothing will break if that's wrong, it just won't work. But I'd be pretty sure that connecting to ground is ok.

Neale
23-09-2017, 05:37 PM
For those that are interested I can confirm that the bob in question does need both 5V and 12-24v to get it to work.

Also when say 12v is applied I can also confirm that the input pins are pulled high so that a simple switch to ground will be fine.

Clive - the doc says "12-24V optional". I'm pretty sure that I've seen someone else talking about a similar BOB where 5V supplied the board but there was no analogue out without the extra supply. But it could have an internal regulator supplying 5V if you do use the higher-voltage supply, I guess. Docs on this Chinese stuff are a nightmare! Personally, I'd start with the 5V connected to the +5V terminal and begin testing. My first BOB was a ZP5A which was broadly similar but no analogue out, so haven't played with the one in question. OP has 5V and 12V available so at least it won't mean an extra PSU either way.

Clive S
23-09-2017, 05:44 PM
Clive - the doc says "12-24V optional". I'm pretty sure that I've seen someone else talking about a similar BOB where 5V supplied the board but there was no analogue out without the extra supply. But it could have an internal regulator supplying 5V if you do use the higher-voltage supply, I guess. Docs on this Chinese stuff are a nightmare! Personally, I'd start with the 5V connected to the +5V terminal and begin testing. My first BOB was a ZP5A which was broadly similar but no analogue out, so haven't played with the one in question. OP has 5V and 12V available so at least it won't mean an extra PSU either way.

Hi Neale I have one of these bobs that I have been playing with linuxcnc and mpg's It fooled me at first. but I have just fired the bob up from a usb port for the 5V result nothing on the input pins. then I applied the 12-24v and hey presto volts on the input pins.

edit: there is a red led, lit when the 12-24v is applied it is next to the input pins

Neale
23-09-2017, 06:21 PM
I bow to your better knowledge - and the result of a straightforward experiment! Doesn't chime with the documentation or expectation, but if that's the way it works, then that's the way it works. Go to it, Desertboy, and do it Clive's way! I think that we're on the same page re input switches, though - connect between input pin and ground.

Clive S
23-09-2017, 07:02 PM
I bow to your better knowledge - and the result of a straightforward experiment! Doesn't chime with the documentation or expectation, but if that's the way it works, then that's the way it works. Go to it, Desertboy, and do it Clive's way! I think that we're on the same page re input switches, though - connect between input pin and ground.

Neale I am an old fart now. I worked on the good old day of valves. So from what I had read on the forum you outclass me by miles:beer:

I spent hours some time ago with this card and thought as you did that the 12-24v was just for the 0-10v stuff. But there may be more than one version of the bob. Happy days.

Desertboy
23-09-2017, 08:50 PM
Rather than old fart I think the terms experienced and seasoned are more suitable now I've turned 40 lol, when I was 20 then yes old fart.

Neale
23-09-2017, 11:50 PM
Nah, you're still a Bright Young Thing!

Nr1madman
24-09-2017, 10:05 PM
I'm so glad I don't have to ask all the questions myself :D have the same bob on my table!
Can't test it yet.. waiting for a cable :)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Desertboy
28-09-2017, 07:24 PM
Going to have a go at wiring it up at the weekend actual work has gotten in the way but going to be really busy until the 9th October so might not get a lot done until then.

Desertboy
29-09-2017, 08:55 AM
22887

Fusion does produces nicer renders than turbocad for sure even with drafts.

Zeeflyboy
29-09-2017, 09:00 AM
Good to see you're getting into the swing of things with fusion.

The adaptive machining is invaluable... yesterday I was whizzing around with a 10mm roughing cutter at 2000mm/min and 10mm Depth of Cut - unthinkable with conventional machining strategies and such a relatively flimsy machine.

Davek0974
29-09-2017, 09:03 AM
22887

Fusion does produces nicer renders than turbocad for sure even with drafts.

Would be good to see a "how to" video or sequence when making Fusion renders - I can do basic stuff and have done some assemblies but nothing this good ;)

Chaz
29-09-2017, 09:09 AM
Would be good to see a "how to" video or sequence when making Fusion renders - I can do basic stuff and have done some assemblies but nothing this good ;)

There is a very good one on Youtube, taught me alot about the options available for lighting etc. Im sure a quick search will find it.

Desertboy
29-09-2017, 09:23 AM
Would be good to see a "how to" video or sequence when making Fusion renders - I can do basic stuff and have done some assemblies but nothing this good ;)

I'm still learning fusion I imported the model from turbocad but I'm comfortable enough now to make every part in this just not assemble it yet lol once I crack the assembly I'll have a proper look at rendering.

I have the autodesk getting started pdf's including section on rendering can't find the link I got it from now but PM us you email and I'll email it you.

6 meg so won't let me upload here.

I have 5 years+ experience in turbocad which has helped take the edge off the learning curve but it's still a curve lol.

Personally couldn't get on with the videos but with a dual monitor setup would be ok, I downloaded the pdf onto tablet so I could have 2 screens. I found PDF's easier though and the PDF's are just written versions of the video tutorials.

I do have a 2nd monitor but it's going in the arcade table but I might borrow it temporarily ;) I ordered a few tutorials to be getting on with mostly to do with component assemblies, sculpting, simulation & making models for injection molding. So will need to a decent solution to learn from videos.

Be nice to do high quality renders but for what I do the renders would be more for me, like a lot of you renders look nice but the CNC machine doesn't give a shit about that lol.

Desertboy
29-09-2017, 09:35 AM
Good to see you're getting into the swing of things with fusion.

The adaptive machining is invaluable... yesterday I was whizzing around with a 10mm roughing cutter at 2000mm/min and 10mm Depth of Cut - unthinkable with conventional machining strategies and such a relatively flimsy machine.

I haven't looked at the CAM yet I wanted to get to about the same standard in Fusion as I was in Turbocad first so I'm comfortable editing models but interesting to read ;)

I think TBF on turbocad this is a properly set up render

22891

I think it's pretty bloody good for a cad render.


e2a fusion can create some nice shots with little effort

22892

Desertboy
02-10-2017, 02:06 PM
Finally got it on my big dug benchs, almost like they were made for the router ;)

I'm going to have 1 continuous piece of ply under the router and MDF as the bed inside the frame on the supports.

I need the continuous piece for the vac bed, it will be slightly framed out so I can suck evenly across the bed.

22910

Just need to cut a piece of chipboard for a shelf and I can start wiring up finally but not going to have much time till next week.

AlexDoran
02-10-2017, 09:58 PM
Are those benches from rapid racking lol

Desertboy
02-10-2017, 10:19 PM
Are those benches from rapid racking lol

Big Dug benches, I've had them years so long I forgot I had them lol, they're rated for 400kg's each shelf so not worried there but these would be an expensive way to get bench for the machine if I had to buy them new.

I bought only the metal frame and bought the ply locally which was a lot cheaper than buying the kits but it still cost me £110 for both of them I could frame it out with extrusion cheaper than that but I have the benches so will use them for now.

At some point though I want the benches back so will need to source a more permanent solution.

Neale
04-10-2017, 11:53 AM
My only concern with those benches is that they will take the weight fine, but once that gantry starts moving about, there's a lot of force trying to move the benchtop in the opposite direction. I have similar Big Dug racking, which is fine once bolted to the wall in a few places, and my old router sat on a similar bench. Might need a bit of diagonal bracing to resist the movement?

Desertboy
04-10-2017, 12:11 PM
My only concern with those benches is that they will take the weight fine, but once that gantry starts moving about, there's a lot of force trying to move the benchtop in the opposite direction. I have similar Big Dug racking, which is fine once bolted to the wall in a few places, and my old router sat on a similar bench. Might need a bit of diagonal bracing to resist the movement?

These are going to be a temporary measure but I can bolt them to the wall pretty easy if I move them to a different place in the unit.

I was going to sit the router on a sheet if ply which I'll drill into the bench tops as well. I need this sheet for my vac bed, clamps will make me want to murder someone lol.

Diagonal bracing hmmm, if they end up being used longer than I want I will consider it, but I would like to recover the benches for drill press and work areas and getting a cnc is only the start of the puzzle lol.

My Titan drill press is not what you would call professional lol.

Desertboy
12-10-2017, 02:41 PM
23020

Had a bit of time today so thought I'd start on the wiring but realised I'm missing 2 of the power input connectors on the stepper drivers, does anyone know what they are called?

Not going to try and cram the transformer in after all would be tight in the case and I would worry about heat, got loads of space under the router more than enough for everything.

Clive S
12-10-2017, 03:06 PM
Had a bit of time today so thought I'd start on the wiring but realised I'm missing 2 of the power input connectors on the stepper drivers, does anyone know what they are called?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Leadshine-stepper-driver-Terminals-plug-connector-connect-plug-for-M542-DM542-DMA860-DM556-DM856-MA860H/32530226703.html

Desertboy
12-10-2017, 03:30 PM
Nice once Clive ;) but I don't want to wait that long just trying to ID them from Rapid online catalogue.

Hoping I can get them by Saturday so I can finish the wiring over the weekend have been busy last couple of weeks and she's so close to cutting now.


The drivers have 3 plug in sockets, 2 of my drivers are missing all the plugs, 1 of my drivers has 2 6 pin plugs but missing the 2 pin, the last driver has all 3 plugs.

e2a
I think this is one set of 6 (P1)
https://www.rapidonline.com/truconnect-6-way-8a-plug-in-free-plug-3-81mm-21-3094

Pretty sure the 2 pin plug is not needed for my application.

the other 6 pin (p2) I think is this one
https://www.rapidonline.com/truconnect-6-way-12a-250v-free-plug-5-08mm-pitch-21-2844

Will try locally if I can't get them then will buy from rapid sure I can cut down a 6 pin to a 2pin if needed (Same pitch & profile)

e2a just ordered from rapidonoline as they don't have locally, got some CY cable as I was short so will have to wait for delivery but hopefully by Monday.

I assume I can use 2 core 0.5mm flexible cable from wilkos for wiring the AM882 drivers to the BOB?