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Nickhofen
03-05-2017, 11:20 AM
Hello everyone.
This is Nick from Greece.
I am looking forward to build my own cnc and to avoid the most mistakes that will cost me money, time and mental brakdown!:gorilla:
Althought I am a member at other cnc forums,I choose to post here my attempt for some reasons that I will prefer not to analyse right now.
Sooo, I am planing to build a cnc with the dimensions I wrote above.Steel frame and bench, I am planing to combine welds and screws for the bench since my workshop is small and I will have to build the machine outside the workshop and disassembly it and reassembly it again in the working area, this will also be a one man build , so this way it will be a little bit better for me to relocate it.
The cnc will be used most for wood working, guitar building, etc and I will be pleased if it will be rigid and accurate enough so I can cut aluminum parts.

Caution My cad abilities are awful,lol, prepare your eyes!!!
CAd program I use is Rhino 4 and Vectric Aspire 4 for cam.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to read and special thanks to everyone that will participate to that attempt!!!

Nickhofen
03-05-2017, 11:30 AM
Yesterday at work I felt very lucky, since I thought I found my machin ,almost ready ,build for me!!!
But unfortunattely someone place an engine on and I lost my chance.:single_eye:
2149821499

Nickhofen
03-05-2017, 11:52 AM
Workbench plans.
50x50x3mm build, any suggestions?
215002150121502

AndyUK
04-05-2017, 12:32 PM
Hi Nick,

I'm still learning, but some of the best bed frame designs I've seen have a bed which attaches to the legs with screws, so you can change the height of the bed, or swap it out for a different one in the future. The other thing I thought was quite sensible would be room at the front and sides for sliding large pieces in underneath to work on their edges - looks like you've hit the nail on head already for that one though!

Hope that helps!

Nickhofen
04-05-2017, 04:57 PM
Any thoughts about the design and the dimensions of the steel tube I use?

Clive S
04-05-2017, 05:41 PM
Any thoughts about the design and the dimensions of the steel tube I use?

I think 3mm is a bit thin for tapping into

Nickhofen
04-05-2017, 07:19 PM
Hi Nick,

I'm still learning, but some of the best bed frame designs I've seen have a bed which attaches to the legs with screws, so you can change the height of the bed, or swap it out for a different one in the future. The other thing I thought was quite sensible would be room at the front and sides for sliding large pieces in underneath to work on their edges - looks like you've hit the nail on head already for that one though!

Hope that helps!

Hi Andy.
Somehow I miss your post earlier.
Thanks for the comments, I read other's guys threads here and I am stealing ideas, I hope this is not inappropriate. :-).
Something I forgot to mention is that at the one end of the bench ,that is at a lower lever is for the rotating axis.

Nickhofen
04-05-2017, 07:20 PM
I think 3mm is a bit thin for tapping into

Hi Clive.
Nice input,thanks!
I will then go for 50x50x4, maybe?

Nick.

Paul3112
05-05-2017, 01:46 AM
Hi Clive.
Nice input,thanks!
I will then go for 50x50x4, maybe?

Nick.

Hi, May I ask what rails/tracks/guides you are using and what is the method of attachment? What do you want to cut?
The span of the section is where you need to pay attention. Mass/stiffness can be your friend.
Welding can be you enemy with shrinkage and distortion. The 50 x50 x3 might be used for bracing , but the main rail support might be stiffer with 75 X 50 X 5.0 RHS.
Tool load and weight of the material you are cutting will also dictate frame material properties. Sorry not many answers and a lot of questions.

Paul

Nickhofen
05-05-2017, 02:15 PM
Hi Paul, thanks for your participation to this thread.
Rails I am planing to use HIWI linear square rails, attached with screws .
I am planning to cut wood mainly and I will be glad if the machine can cut aluminum also,I know that I can not have a cnc that can do both works well, so the main purpose is to build a cnc foe woodworking-guitar building.
Thanks for the input about the main rails, i will use it at my upgrate workbench design.

Nickhofen
05-05-2017, 04:21 PM
I have a lot to learn....

Nickhofen
10-05-2017, 12:32 PM
Is there a reason not to go with that design on the bench?I mean the lower section for the 4 th axis? The bench will have a movable section at the one end that will cover the 4th axis and when is needed I will remove that part so I can machine big parts that are going to be heleded at the A axis.

Nickhofen
26-05-2017, 09:43 PM
Bump.....!!!!!

Nickhofen
26-05-2017, 09:45 PM
A guy near by me sells one of those as a kit, only the frame, are there any good ?
If I drop some Nema 23 ,3 or 4Nm.
http://www.cnc1.eu/en/KH1000GSKIT.htm
What a headache.

johngoodrich
28-05-2017, 09:49 AM
hi. I think your design will be much stronger than the one you have linked to.. There should be no problem with the removable section for your 4th axis as long as it lines up with the rest of the bed

cropwell
28-05-2017, 10:55 AM
Looking at that link, my first reaction is that the gantry sides are way too flimsy. They need some triangular bracing at least.

Nickhofen
28-05-2017, 12:36 PM
Ok guys, thanks for the reply, I wasn't sure anyone is watching this thread.
I will move forward with my build and abandon the idea to buy the chasis.

Nickhofen
02-08-2017, 03:04 PM
Advice needed.

I repost here since at my other thread I didn't get any respond.
I am thinking for something like that for my X axis, I prefer to build it bolt on ,with minimum welding, since it is one man job and better to handle, plus I want to avoid metal stress,that I am going to get with welding.
X axis is made from 90x90x900x4mm steel structural sections
At front and back of the steel tubes I will place two steel plates 5mm to stiffness the structure ,also the two plates ,left and right, are going to be 5 -7 mm.
22439
22440

routercnc
02-08-2017, 07:05 PM
Advice needed.

I repost here since at my other thread I didn't get any respond.
I am thinking for something like that for my X axis, I prefer to build it bolt on ,with minimum welding, since it is one man job and better to handle, plus I want to avoid metal stress,that I am going to get with welding.
X axis is made from 90x90x900x4mm steel structural sections
At front and back of the steel tubes I will place two steel plates 5mm to stiffness the structure ,also the two plates ,left and right, are going to be 5 -7 mom.
22439
22440


With 2 off 90x90 sections stacked on top of each other with what looks like another 90 mm gap the gantry is going to be very tall. This means the loads going into the top rail are along way from the X axis ballscrews (which react that load) and you are reliant on the sheet panel sides to do the load transfer.

Is this height because you need lots of Z travel?

Whilst yes this would work, I think there are more elegant steel fabricated solutions. For example this one from 'Toomast':
22445

There's this one too:
22446
Both involve welding so as you point out care is required during construction.

More popular is aluminium extrusion for the gantry because it is easier to work with:
22447

For wood working, guitar making and occasional aluminium I would say all the above are suitable designs.

Nickhofen
02-08-2017, 08:13 PM
Is this height because you need lots of Z travel?.

Sorry I forgot to mention that the total height is 180mm.
I have read at another thread here , that to eliminate the forces when Z axis is cutting, the carriege must be at least at 250 mm from their outer sides.

Nr1madman
02-08-2017, 09:03 PM
Sorry I forgot to mention that the total height is 280mm.
I have read at another thread here , that to eliminate the forces when Z axis is cutting, the carriege must be at least at 250 mm from their outer sides.

Hello !
I think you (or me) has misunderstood..
The bearings on x axis your long axis should be wider preferably so that the tip of the cutter is between them when viewing the machine from the side.
The y axis bearings on gantry can be closer.

If you use 90x90x4 steel with no welding, how will you close the ends to be able to bolt there?

Nickhofen
02-08-2017, 09:53 PM
Hello !
I think you (or me) has misunderstood..
The bearings on x axis your long axis should be wider preferably so that the tip of the cutter is between them when viewing the machine from the side.
The y axis bearings on gantry can be closer.

If you use 90x90x4 steel with no welding, how will you close the ends to be able to bolt there?

How close can be the bearings on the gantry so I can have good accuracy and eliminate the tolerance when torgue applied on Z axis ?
The ends of the tubes is going to be welded with steel flanges, I prefer minimum welding for minimum stress and to be able to adjust- align everything.

Nr1madman
02-08-2017, 10:02 PM
How close can be the bearings on the gantry so I can have good accuracy and eliminate the tolerance when torgue applied on Z axis ?
The ends of the tubes is going to be welded with steel flanges, I prefer minimum welding for minimum stress and to be able to adjust- align everything.

Aah then I understand about the ends ;)

I don't know about the critical spacing of y axis bearings but I've seen lots of people using gantrys that are only 100mm high (50x100 steel tube) and that seems to work. The better question is what distans you are planning from lower y bearing to workpiece?

Nickhofen
03-08-2017, 04:14 AM
Aah then I understand about the ends ;)

I don't know about the critical spacing of y axis bearings but I've seen lots of people using gantrys that are only 100mm high (50x100 steel tube) and that seems to work. The better question is what distans you are planning from lower y bearing to workpiece?

200mm maximum, with rising table that will minimize the distance for aluminum cutting .

Nickhofen
03-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Sorry I forgot to mention that the total height is 280mm.
I have read at another thread here , that to eliminate the forces when Z axis is cutting, the carriege must be at least at 250 mm from their outer sides.

I fount another thread "http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8975-Linear-rail-question?p=88244#post88244", one that you have start Robert (Nr1madman), where Jazzcnc states that 160mm for Y axis height is good enough!
Time to redesign !

Nr1madman
04-08-2017, 02:33 PM
I fount another thread "http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/8975-Linear-rail-question?p=88244#post88244", one that you have start Robert (Nr1madman), where Jazzcnc states that 160mm for Y axis height is good enough!
Time to redesign !Hohoho you know the phrase "seek and you shall find". Well done ;)

But if I remember correctly my choice was 80x160 profile for gantry but jazz and Boyan stated that 2pcs of 80x40 is plenty enough in L formation. That gives the gantry a hight of 120mm!

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Clive S
04-08-2017, 02:35 PM
Hohoho you know the phrase "seek and you shall find". Well done ;)

But if I remember correctly my choice was 80x160 profile for gantry but jazz and Boyan stated that 2pcs of 80x40 is plenty enough in L formation. That gives the gantry a hight of 120mm!

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I think I have seen Jazz use 90 by 45 as that is the correct spacing for 20mm rails in profile

Nickhofen
04-08-2017, 04:45 PM
I think I have seen Jazz use 90 by 45 as that is the correct spacing for 20mm rails in profile

90x45 each tube Clive? And what spacing between for the screw can we say that is ideal?

Clive S
04-08-2017, 05:19 PM
90x45 each tube Clive? And what spacing between for the screw can we say that is ideal?

Not sure what you mean by this the two profile are fitted together to make an L so the lower one is horizontal with the other one sitting on top vertical, the BK and BF bearings for the screw will fit the slots in the profile

Nickhofen
04-08-2017, 06:53 PM
Not sure what you mean by this the two profile are fitted together to make an L so the lower one is horizontal with the other one sitting on top vertical, the BK and BF bearings for the screw will fit the slots in the profile

Thanks Clive, now I get it.

Nr1madman
04-08-2017, 07:20 PM
Not sure what you mean by this the two profile are fitted together to make an L so the lower one is horizontal with the other one sitting on top vertical, the BK and BF bearings for the screw will fit the slots in the profileYou are correct as always ;) but I think the smaller 80x40 was okay strength wise, just alot more handy with the 90x45 because of the bearings and the clever bolt on approach

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Clive S
04-08-2017, 08:01 PM
You are correct as always ;) but I think the smaller 80x40 was okay strength wise, just alot more handy with the 90x45 because of the bearings and the clever bolt on approach

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Exactly, better job all round the bolt holes are perfect for the 45x90

Nickhofen
19-08-2017, 07:13 PM
After some sleepless nights watching some video tutorials about Fusion 360 CliveS point me, thanks Clive, I came up with this.

The questions now are:
Can I use two pieces from this aluminum extrusion for the Y axis, not complete on the photo, and screw them them at left and right on the supports?
And what extrusions can I use for the X(long) axis, to support the Hiwin rails and screws.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/172334810082?ul_noapp=true

Nickhofen
22-08-2017, 06:02 PM
I was thinking the option of using aluminum extrusions for the axis, since this way there is no need for drilling ,tapping and leveling with epoxy!

Clive S
22-08-2017, 07:20 PM
Can I use two pieces from this aluminum extrusion for the Y axis, not complete on the photo, and screw them them at left and right on the supports?
Yes use two pieces one flat and one upright like an L. Then drill the upright one down the channel slot and bolt it to the flat one with tee nuts M6 90mm cap head

Nickhofen
22-08-2017, 07:39 PM
Thanks Clive, always so helpful!
Can I use the same extrusion for the x(long axis ) to bolt 20mm rails and ballscrew on? Or I need a thicker extrusion?

Clive S
22-08-2017, 07:50 PM
Thanks Clive, always so helpful!
Can I use the same extrusion for the x(long axis ) to bolt 20mm rails and ballscrew on? Or I need a thicker extrusion?

Its very nice using extrusion (heavy duty) because the slots it the 90x45 are exactly correct for the bk and bf bearings and can be mounted with tee nuts 6MM the 20mm rails will also mount into on top of the slots. You would have to work out how to fix the extrusion to your frame.

The ends of the extrusion can also be tapped without drilling for M12 bolts. with a spiral tap in an electric drill.

Nickhofen
22-08-2017, 07:57 PM
I see that they are not as cheap as steel tubing but that save me from a lot of work and time!
Thank you Sir!

Clive S
22-08-2017, 08:03 PM
I see that they are not as cheap as steel tubing but that save me from a lot of work and time!
Thank you Sir!

Yes if you decide on them get the company to cut them to length

Nickhofen
22-08-2017, 08:09 PM
I will message the seller,Thanks!
One more silly question..For X (long axe) what side is better the extrusion lay on the bed side, the sort(45) or the thick(90), for matter of stability.

Clive S
22-08-2017, 11:26 PM
I will message the seller,Thanks!
One more silly question..For X (long axe) what side is better the extrusion lay on the bed side, the sort(45) or the thick(90), for matter of stability.

90mm in vertical

Nr1madman
23-08-2017, 03:25 PM
Yes use two pieces one flat and one upright like an L. Then drill the upright one down the channel slot and bolt it to the flat one with tee nuts M6 90mm cap headHmm I'm at this stage myself but I was thinking about drilling through the bottom extrusion and use tee nuts in the upper extrusion and cap head screws with washers to fill out the t slots. Then use the holes I drilled to tighten the screws. What do you all say about that?

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Clive S
23-08-2017, 03:32 PM
Hmm I'm at this stage myself but I was thinking about drilling through the bottom extrusion and use tee nuts in the upper extrusion and cap head screws with washers to fill out the t slots. Then use the holes I drilled to tighten the screws. What do you all say about that?

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The way I described has been done and tested many times. So why change?

Nr1madman
23-08-2017, 03:35 PM
The way I described has been done and tested many times. So why change?Well the way I described was just the way that felt most logical to me.. read a few build logs but didn't grasp that everyone was going the way you described :)
This is perfect! Now I have something to think about tonight hehe

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routercnc
23-08-2017, 08:53 PM
Hi Nick,

As per your pm:
Your requirements are to cut wood, guitar bodies, and occasional aluminium.

The L shaped gantry in a pair of 90x45 extrusions has been used many times on this forum and will cut your requirements as above. At 900 mm gantry width it is starting to get a bit wide, but I would say still OK.

The raised X axis can also use 90x45 extrusion so long as there are plenty of supporting uprights connecting it back to the main bed.

Would this be good enough or should you use steel? Well, I would say you are OK to use aluminium profile on the gantry and the X axis and still cut the requirements above. If however you want to do regular aluminium cutting then I would upgrade the raised X axis sides to steel.

Here are some aluminium gantry, steel sided machines:
22667

22668

You wanted to use profile to avoid using epoxy leveling - well I've not found the profile extrusion to be particularly level and flat. You can buy specially machined profile, but regular stuff is not likely to be flat. If you don't want to epoxy level you can always shim the rails manually, but need a master straight edge to compare to.

hanermo2
23-08-2017, 09:07 PM
Your project is going well !
Congrats !

I have some positive news..
Mostly ... In most-all alu designs/builds I have seen, little to no serious alu cutting has been done.
BUT..
You can later upgrade the machine stiffness, pretty easily, imho.
If You do need to, that is.
It will be perfectly feasible to drill/ream a few dowel pins, through clamped flats into the alu, and fix steel flats onto the sides of any beams.
And You can even fix them mostly by gluing .. if You use industrial epoxy glues.
And yes, they are strong enough, and no, they wont reduce rigidity.

As-is, I would not give any advice.
You have a pretty good path, and it is likely to work out very well for wood.
And with suitable parameters it will likely do some alu, with hsm toolpaths and smallish cutters.

But rigidity-needed is related to machine work-envelope size, esp. free-length ie the working length of your beam.
900 mm is pretty big.
A mechmate at 1200 mm beam is pretty close, and they are a near-professional tool, in steel, heavy and expensive to build.

In a nutshell;
looks good.
Likely to give great results in wood.
Well done.
Keep going.
If You need to, *anything* can always be upgraded.

Nickhofen
23-08-2017, 09:09 PM
Hi Nick,

As per your pm:
Your requirements are to cut wood, guitar bodies, and occasional aluminium.

The L shaped gantry in a pair of 90x45 extrusions has been used many times on this forum and will cut your requirements as above. At 900 mm gantry width it is starting to get a bit wide, but I would say still OK.

The raised X axis can also use 90x45 extrusion so long as there are plenty of supporting uprights connecting it back to the main bed.

Would this be good enough or should you use steel? Well, I would say you are OK to use aluminium profile on the gantry and the X axis and still cut the requirements above. If however you want to do regular aluminium cutting then I would upgrade the raised X axis sides to steel.

Here are some aluminium gantry, steel sided machines:
22667

22668

You wanted to use profile to avoid using epoxy leveling - well I've not found the profile extrusion to be particularly level and flat. You can buy specially machined profile, but regular stuff is not likely to be flat. If you don't want to epoxy level you can always shim the rails manually, but need a master straight edge to compare to.

Thank you and all the other guys for taking the time to reply to my questions here at the thread and at my pms also, it is a priceless feeling to know that people who do not know you, suport you this way!

Nickhofen
23-08-2017, 09:23 PM
Your project is going well !
Congrats !

I have some positive news..
Mostly ... In most-all alu designs/builds I have seen, little to no serious alu cutting has been done.
BUT..
You can later upgrade the machine stiffness, pretty easily, imho.
If You do need to, that is.
It will be perfectly feasible to drill/ream a few dowel pins, through clamped flats into the alu, and fix steel flats onto the sides of any beams.
And You can even fix them mostly by gluing .. if You use industrial epoxy glues.
And yes, they are strong enough, and no, they wont reduce rigidity.

As-is, I would not give any advice.
You have a pretty good path, and it is likely to work out very well for wood.
And with suitable parameters it will likely do some alu, with hsm toolpaths and smallish cutters.

But rigidity-needed is related to machine work-envelope size, esp. free-length ie the working length of your beam.
900 mm is pretty big.
A mechmate at 1200 mm beam is pretty close, and they are a near-professional tool, in steel, heavy and expensive to build.

In a nutshell;
looks good.
Likely to give great results in wood.
Well done.
Keep going.
If You need to, *anything* can always be upgraded.

Hi there.
Thanks for the positive feedback.
So if I understand right you suggest to screw or glue, in the future, pieces of steel on one side of aluminum extrusions for rigidity purpose? That sounds as a good plan!

Nickhofen
27-08-2017, 08:29 AM
I place the order for the aluminium extrusions, it seems that something starts to happen with this build. :-)
Except for the higher noise level between air cooled VFD spindles vs water cooled spindles, is there another reason why not to take a 2.2kW Chinese aircooled VFD spindle? I found one aircooled with four bearings, shipped from Europe and the price looks good, to me.
I will post the link tomorrow when I get back home.

Clive S
27-08-2017, 09:55 AM
I place the order for the aluminium extrusions, it seems that something starts to happen with this build. :-)
Except for the higher noise level between air cooled VFD spindles vs water cooled spindles, is there another reason why not to take a 2.2kW Chinese aircooled VFD spindle? I found one aircooled with four bearings, shipped from Europe and the price looks good, to me.
I will post the link tomorrow when I get back home.

The only reason I know is that if you want to run it at a low speed say 7K then the fan will not put as much air across the spindle so could possibly heat up. But for me a WC one is a no brainer:hopelessness:

Nickhofen
27-08-2017, 10:55 AM
The only reason I know is that if you want to run it at a low speed say 7K then the fan will not put as much air across the spindle so could possibly heat up. But for me a WC one is a no brainer:hopelessness:

Thanks for the input, I hope I didn't open a can of worms with my question. ;-)

Nickhofen
01-09-2017, 08:50 PM
Hmm I'm at this stage myself but I was thinking about drilling through the bottom extrusion and use tee nuts in the upper extrusion and cap head screws with washers to fill out the t slots. Then use the holes I drilled to tighten the screws. What do you all say about that?

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Maybe this way the conection between the two extrution is more rigid , because the bolts run all the leght of the upper extrution and not just hold it with the lower one only from the base,just a thought....

Nickhofen
01-09-2017, 09:41 PM
I am thinking to make the base of X axe support plate 300mm, is it ok or too much?
I quess that to find the length of the ballscrew for x axis etc, I have to substract the legth of baseplate from the legth of the rail,right?
22703
So 1200mm for Xaxis subtract 300 =900mm for balscrew plus f plus space for the end support bearings bk and bf.

Nickhofen
04-09-2017, 04:30 PM
Small update.
I send an email to Fred, BST Automation, about the cost of the rails ballscrew and a VFD spindle asking for quote.
The price he offer is good but the shipping cost from China to Greece is very high ,324$ :grief:

Zeeflyboy
04-09-2017, 07:29 PM
I am thinking to make the base of X axe support plate 300mm, is it ok or too much?
I quess that to find the length of the ballscrew for x axis etc, I have to substract the legth of baseplate from the legth of the rail,right?
22703
So 1200mm for Xaxis subtract 300 =900mm for balscrew plus f plus space for the end support bearings bk and bf.


300mm is more than enough.

Yes, although there is no real harm in having a slightly longer ball screw travel than the machine travel of course if it helps you in locating motors/bearing mounts. The only downside is possibly slightly more expense and a slightly lower critical speed if you get a screw longer than needed.

I was very happy with the TBI and HIWIN stuff I got from aliexpress, all machined to my own specs. Haven't used it in anger yet of course so can't fully comment but quality appears top notch, was most impressed with the ballscrew machining as it was done to an impeccable standard. The seller was this guy https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2780240?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.4b24ae2bMdgpHS although you just want to email them for a full quote rather than buy the individual parts from the store. I dealt with a guy called "John" (I doubt it lol) who was very helpful... his email was just john "at" topper-hz.com and you then pay through a special order on aliexpress so you benefit from the payment protections there.

Worth a quote perhaps. They do all the c3/c5 ground or c7 rolled.. just ask for what you need. They offer their own brand stuff too which is much cheaper but I can't comment on the quality too much... I got a couple of small c5 12mm ground ball screws and they seem ok. Not as smooth as the TBI stuff out of the box but I haven't really looked any closer at them yet as they are for a future project.

Shipping is always going to a be a bit expensive when you are shipping a lot of heavy and large items half way around the world, but if the price is good enough to begin with then that's the trade off! Shipping for me (4 x 16mm screws, 2 x 12mm screws, 2 big 25mm rails, some 20mm rails, lots of carriages and motor mounts, bearing mounts etc came to about $240 via fedex.

Nickhofen
04-09-2017, 07:49 PM
300mm is more than enough.

Yes, although there is no real harm in having a slightly longer ball screw travel than the machine travel of course if it helps you in locating motors/bearing mounts. The only downside is possibly slightly more expense and a slightly lower critical speed if you get a screw longer than needed.

I was very happy with the TBI and HIWIN stuff I got from aliexpress, all machined to my own specs. Haven't used it in anger yet of course so can't fully comment but quality appears top notch, was most impressed with the ballscrew machining as it was done to an impeccable standard. The seller was this guy https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2780240?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.4b24ae2bMdgpHS although you just want to email them for a full quote rather than buy the individual parts from the store. I dealt with a guy called "John" (I doubt it lol) who was very helpful... his email was just john "at" topper-hz.com and you then pay through a special order on aliexpress so you benefit from the payment protections there.

Worth a quote perhaps. They do all the c3/c5 ground or c7 rolled.. just ask for what you need. They offer their own brand stuff too which is much cheaper but I can't comment on the quality too much... I got a couple of small c5 12mm ground ball screws and they seem ok. Not as smooth as the TBI stuff out of the box but I haven't really looked any closer at them yet as they are for a future project.

Shipping is always going to a be a bit expensive when you are shipping a lot of heavy and large items half way around the world, but if the price is good enough to begin with then that's the trade off! Shipping for me (4 x 16mm screws, 2 x 12mm screws, 2 big 25mm rails, some 20mm rails, lots of carriages and motor mounts, bearing mounts etc came to about $240 via fedex.

Thanks for the input, I will also check the store you suggest at Aliexpress.
The big problem about shipping cost is that the custom here add the shipping cost to the value of the order and then apply 24% taxes!:thumbdown:
So the ballscrew I am going to order, lets say for the X, long axis ,is going to be 900mm plus smth, maybe 950mm?
What is the minimum the support plates legth can be, so I can have a rigid gantry?
Sorry for keep asking about something that seems obvius to some guys here but it is the first time I buld or put an order for ballscrews etc.

Nr1madman
04-09-2017, 07:53 PM
I also have great problems with shipping and taxes. 25% in Sweden ;) I usually hope, pray and do strange voodoo when ordering to make the post / customs to overlook my shipment ;)

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Zeeflyboy
04-09-2017, 07:55 PM
250-300mm will give you a very solid mounting... Given it's a fairly large machine I wouldn't try to save space too much.

Size depends on what motor mounts/bearing mounts/couplings you are using. Don't just guess! Do you know what mounts and bearing arrangements you are using yet?

You may find some creative accounting on invoices.

Nickhofen
04-09-2017, 07:56 PM
I also have great problems with shipping and taxes. 25% in Sweden ;) I usually hope, pray and do strange voodoo when ordering to make the post / customs to overlook my shipment ;)

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That seems like a good plan! :-)

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Zeeflyboy
04-09-2017, 08:00 PM
This may be of use - its the technical drawing I made when ordering my screws. The dimensions are suitable for an FK12 angular contact on the motor end and an ff12 floating bearing on the other end.

Nickhofen
04-09-2017, 08:09 PM
250-300mm will give you a very solid mounting... Given it's a fairly large machine I wouldn't try to save space too much.

Size depends on what motor mounts/bearing mounts/couplings you are using. Don't just guess! Do you know what mounts and bearing arrangements you are using yet?

You may find some creative accounting on invoices.

OK then, I will keep 300mm.
The ballscrews are those ,1605 at different length for Y and Z and for X I am going for 2020.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/SFU1605-Ballscrew-Set-1605-L365mm-ball-screw-with-ballnut-Nut-Housing-Bracket-FK12-FF12-End-Support/314742_32345011419.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.5ce5 139enWFCJy
As for motor mounting I am going for the typical all seller have for nema 23, for now and upgrate later.

Nickhofen
05-09-2017, 07:38 PM
I am about to pull the trigger and buy the ballscrews, rails and spindle.

Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L900mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear
Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L1200mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear
Carriage 2 X BLH 20-L400mm linear guideway +4pcs BLH20N Narrow Linear

ballscrews Anti Backlash Ballscrew RM1610 -L900mm with SFU1610 Ballnut +BK12 BF12 Support Unit + 1610
Nut Bracket + 6.35*10mm coupler1 X Anti Backlash
Ballscrews 2x SFE 2020 Rolled Ball screw L 1200mm with SFE2020 ballnut + BK15 BF15 Ballscrew Support block + 8mm to 12mm coupler
Ballscrew RM1610 -L400mm with SFU1610 Ballnut + BK12 BF12 Support Unit + 1610 Nut Bracket + 6.35*10mm
coupler

I will use ratio at all screws to lower the screw speed for cutting aluminium.

For spindle I am going for this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2-2kw-High-Frequency-Spindle-and-the-match-variable-frequency-driver-and-80mm-spindle-mount-full/314742_713959305.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.5bdadf 47BsiI9F

for stepper motors I am going for Nema23 4NM ,this will be the next thing to order.

If anyone is willing to double check for mistakes,I will highly appreciate that.
Any opinions are welcome!

Clive S
05-09-2017, 10:58 PM
The spindle you have link to seems to have 3 bearings this one has 4 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-INVERTER-VFD-ENGRAVING-MILL-GRIND-MILLING-/260626018545?hash=item3cae8570f1:g:5o8AAOSw-W5Us1mz

Nickhofen
06-09-2017, 06:08 AM
Thanks Clive.
I am stressed about the ballscrew and rails order and didn't give much attention to this detail, see I do not want to spent money to something that won't do the job. :)
The one you link has the colets also....
I will ask Fred to machine the ballscrew ends to be 30mm .
Is the ratio for all axis a good solutions or it gives more trouble?

Clive S
06-09-2017, 08:28 AM
I will use ratio at all screws to lower the screw speed for cutting aluminium.
Nick time for a reality check. First you appear to be using direct couplings from the motor to the screws and then you use the above statement which to me it appears you want to use a belts and pulleys .

Re the list of the screws. Not sure why you need 2010 screws. Generally the screws don't need to be as long as the rails.

Have you done a full cad drawing to show how they will fit? You are going to spend a lot of money and certainly don't want a mistake.

The 30mm you mentioned is the F length of the screw ie just the bit that the coupling or pulley will fit on.

Nickhofen
06-09-2017, 09:05 AM
Thanks again for the reply Clive.
My mistake about the coupling, I do not know why I put them in the order.
I will go for pulleys and belts for space reduction, vibrations ,torgue speed change and everything else you guys have analyze here so many times, lol.
I was thinking 20 balscrew for not wiping at critical speed because of length at x axis (1200 mm) ....Am I thinking right?

Nickhofen
06-09-2017, 02:34 PM
Generally the screws don't need to be as long as the rails.

I remember that,we discuss it also with Zeefleeboy but at BST Automation there is a photo that show that the length at the description is the total length.
Did I misunderstand something, maybe I have to check with Fred from BST.
22719

Clive S
06-09-2017, 03:55 PM
I remember that,we discuss it also with Zeefleeboy but at BST Automation there is a photo that show that the length at the description is the total length.
Did I misunderstand something, maybe I have to check with Fred from BST.
22719

OK when you quote for the screw you tell him the total length (including the F length) and say what F length you want, the standard is about 15mm but that is not enough so ask for the F length to be 30mm (this is the bit where the pulley will fit).

If you PM me your list I will format it for you so that Fred will understand it. You also have to ask for grease nipples.

Nickhofen
26-09-2017, 03:09 PM
I am ready to pull the the treager and place order for the rails and balance. I am thinking to use 1610 for X axis and for Y and 1605 for Z, should I go for 2010 for the long axis 1200? Will I gain something?
X axis is going to have two balscrews and two motors, and I am planing to cut wood and aluminium also!

Clive S
26-09-2017, 03:54 PM
I am ready to pull the the treager and place order for the rails and balance. I am thinking to use 1610 for X axis and for Y and 1605 for Z, should I go for 2010 for the long axis 1200? Will I gain something?
X axis is going to have two balscrews and two motors, and I am planing to cut wood and aluminium also!

Nick I run 1610 on my long axis with two motors and 1250mm cutting length on X without problems.

Nr1madman
26-09-2017, 04:13 PM
OK when you quote for the screw you tell him the total length (including the F length) and say what F length you want, the standard is about 15mm but that is not enough so ask for the F length to be 30mm (this is the bit where the pulley will fit).

If you PM me your list I will format it for you so that Fred will understand it. You also have to ask for grease nipples.I totally missed the grease nippel. Does anyone know where to get some? :)

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Nickhofen
26-09-2017, 04:32 PM
Nick I run 1610 on my long axis with two motors and 1250mm cutting length on X without problems.

Thanks Clive, I will order 1610 then!

Nickhofen
26-09-2017, 04:34 PM
I totally missed the grease nippel. Does anyone know where to get some? :)

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Robert you can find those at Fred's store, BST Automation at Aliexpress.

Nickhofen
13-10-2017, 06:36 PM
Not really an update but I have a good finding that I would like to share.
A friend of mine gave me three of those aluminium beams that he found as reinforcements in a box that had inside a big ladder !
It is like early Christmas, how can I use them at my build ?
First think that came to my mind is to cut the small square tube, the one that is weld perpendicular to the long one and use it as base for the motors and cut longitudinal the long part ,and use it as a support to L beam of Y axis?
Any thoughts ?
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Nr1madman
19-10-2017, 06:08 PM
You know you suffer from DIYmadness when you see a use in every metal part you find :D

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Nr1madman
19-10-2017, 06:10 PM
Robert you can find those at Fred's store, BST Automation at Aliexpress.Thanks for the tip. Turns out I had some in my shed, turned out nice :D
Still haven't found any local place to buy suitable lithium grease :(

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Nickhofen
19-10-2017, 09:30 PM
You know you suffer from DIYmadness when you see a use in every metal part you find :D

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Haha,that's true!

Nickhofen
09-11-2017, 06:15 PM
Yesterday I spend two hours at customs office to make the papers pay take my balscrews and linear rails.
Everything arrived in good condition and packed very well, Fred and BST Automation appears to be very professional at what they are doing.
Here is a pic of the stuff...
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Nickhofen
09-11-2017, 06:43 PM
I am going to be out of country for two weeks, so I will have plenty of time to design the bench.
50x50 cm is the most easy steel tube bars to find but I know is out of discussion for building a bench, any recommendations about what tubes to use?

Nr1madman
09-11-2017, 07:30 PM
Ooh goodies!
Did it arrive in good shape?
So that's why you was stuck in customs.. I thought you had been traveling and suspected of smuggling or something :D

You can build one hell of a bench using 50x50 CM steel ;)


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Nickhofen
09-11-2017, 07:48 PM
Haha no smugglers around here ...haha kidding those are everywhere :P

So 50x50 is good for my bench ? That is a good input from somewhere to start!!!

Nr1madman
09-11-2017, 08:02 PM
Haha no smugglers around here ...haha kidding those are everywhere [emoji14]

So 50x50 is good for my bench ? That is a good input from somewhere to start!!!No.. you typed 50x50 cm.. sounds big my friend ;)
50x50mm sounds more like regular tube!

And by bench do you mean the base of the machine?

I've read several times that 80x80 with 3mm thickness is good for reducing flex and resonance. I think it was Boyan that typed that it was the perfect size and he seems to know what he's doing :)

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Nickhofen
09-11-2017, 08:19 PM
Lol now I notice the typing mistake I made....lack of sleep shows first signs.

Nickhofen
25-11-2017, 07:32 PM
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32705914302.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.20cd764bWYizFh
I am about to purchase those shocet connectorst ,since they have 40 days delivery to Greece,are those any good? How many pins per socket to I need?

Nr1madman
25-11-2017, 07:47 PM
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32705914302.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.20cd764bWYizFh
I am about to purchase those shocet connectorst ,since they have 40 days delivery to Greece,are those any good? How many pins per socket to I need?What do you need them for? ;)

Are you thinking about steppers or maybe switches?
Plan ahead and order with one pin more than you need. I have similar connectors that doesn't have continuity in the shells so I need an extra pin to connect the wire shield. That's assuming that you will use shielded wire?

In theory you could have a big 20-25 connector for plugging everything in with one socket and then route it in connectorboxes on the machine itself.. :D

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Nickhofen
25-11-2017, 07:53 PM
Hi Robert,thanks for the fast reply!
I am thinking to use them on the housing box to connect the cables that comes and goes from the electronic housing box.
Something like that:
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Nr1madman
25-11-2017, 08:07 PM
Hi Robert,thanks for the fast reply!
I am thinking to use them on the housing box to connect the cables that comes and goes from the electronic housing box.Okey.. but do you want one for each motor and separate for switches or do you want only one big cable?

If bundling several signals in the same cable you loose the screen protection between them..

The normal that I see people using is one for limits and a one each for each motor

And of course if you want e-stop on the machine or probe or something like that.

Steppers are usually 4 signals + shield so 5 pins.

A switch depends on type of switch! But could be +, gnd, signal, shield so total 4 pins.
But it could also be + and gnd without shield for a simple mechanical switch with simpler wire for a total of 2 pins. But greater risk of interference.

So it all depends on your equipment :)

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Nickhofen
25-11-2017, 08:21 PM
Ok that's makes everything clear now,thanks!

Nickhofen
27-11-2017, 11:00 AM
I just score that today for 80 euros, it is 540x600x20 mm,I am planning to cut it and make the z axis plate out of it.I will use my bandsaw and then my router to make the templates out of plywood and after that I will use the same tools to cut this Ali,as Joe Harris has already done very successfully I must say!!!.:applause:
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Nr1madman
27-11-2017, 05:15 PM
Nice Nick!
You are brave to route that with a handheld router :D
Real action video is a must! ;)

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Nickhofen
20-12-2017, 08:30 PM
Welding time!
Workshop is so small even with the extension, that I can not take a full photo of the cnc table,lol , behind me you can see the old wall,it is where are the bricks, the extension is behind it where the blue curtain is.
80x80mm square tubes were used, for bracing I am going with 50x50mm.
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Nr1madman
20-12-2017, 08:35 PM
Haha go go weldmaster :D

You will soon have use of all planning!
Lets not have a race.. have a feeling you will be ready before me ;)

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Nickhofen
20-12-2017, 08:40 PM
No way!!! I have no motors, spindle ,not catted the alu plates etc....So, no way! hahaha!!!

Nickhofen
20-12-2017, 08:41 PM
Does any one have a good supplier for 2.2kw VFD spindle ? And 4nm nemma 23 motors with 8 cables?

Nickhofen
21-12-2017, 11:00 AM
Anyone?
:joker:

Nr1madman
21-12-2017, 11:05 AM
4nm motors can be bought from cnc4you.co.uk or zapp automation :) those motors have good specs compared to ebay versions.. the ebay motors usually have high inductance.

Spindle + vfd seems more like a gamble..
Same sellers often ship different quality. Sometimes 3 bearings sometimes 4.
Sometimes with connected earth sometimes without.
No tips for you here....

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Nickhofen
21-12-2017, 12:52 PM
Thanks Robert, so the spindle guestion is still a mystery,lol!

Davek0974
21-12-2017, 01:00 PM
Thanks Robert, so the spindle guestion is still a mystery,lol!

Yes, i have bought two of these, one was really smooth and the other sounded like it was out of balance somewhere. Its 50/50 what you get but they are cheap.

Nickhofen
21-12-2017, 01:07 PM
Yes, i have bought two of these, one was really smooth and the other sounded like it was out of balance somewhere. Its 50/50 what you get but they are cheap.

Thanks Dave,I will pull the trigger and buy a Chinese one and see what happen!

Clive S
21-12-2017, 01:19 PM
Thanks Dave,I will pull the trigger and buy a Chinese one and see what happen!

Try this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-INVERTER-VFD-ENGRAVING-MILL-GRIND-MILLING/260626018545?hash=item3cae8570f1:g:5o8AAOSw-W5Us1mz

Nickhofen
21-12-2017, 01:45 PM
Try this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-INVERTER-VFD-ENGRAVING-MILL-GRIND-MILLING/260626018545?hash=item3cae8570f1:g:5o8AAOSw-W5Us1mz

Thanks Clive,nice price and it is shipped from Germany,no extra taxes this time ! ;-)

Nr1madman
21-12-2017, 01:46 PM
Thanks Robert, so the spindle guestion is still a mystery,lol!I just went for a ebay seller that had genuin HY vfd and claimed 4 bearings.

If I got it.. no idea!

Unscrewed the connector on top and no internal earth connection :)

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Nickhofen
21-12-2017, 02:39 PM
I just went for a ebay seller that had genuin HY vfd and claimed 4 bearings.

If I got it.. no idea!

Unscrewed the connector on top and no internal earth connection :)

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That is the good part about eshops and ebay ,you never know what you are going to get! Lol.

Desertboy
21-12-2017, 06:14 PM
I just went for a ebay seller that had genuin HY vfd and claimed 4 bearings.

If I got it.. no idea!

Unscrewed the connector on top and no internal earth connection :)

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Of course no internal earth does anyone ever have an earthed spindle?

I think I bought my spindle from same person it works lol about all I can say about it.

Nickhofen
28-12-2017, 10:37 PM
I made some progress today.
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Cut one of the aluminium beams I have and use the piece to add stiffness to the L beam.
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Nickhofen
28-12-2017, 10:45 PM
I made a pass from the table router and cut the aluminium angle straight , something that wasn't possible with the cutting grinder.
Aluminium angle is 5mm thick, I believe it is going to add something to the construction,I hope stiffness and not only weight!lol!!!

23500

Desertboy
28-12-2017, 11:53 PM
Nice ;)

Nickhofen
30-12-2017, 10:00 AM
I use the end mill chamfering with sunk to prepare the holes,then screw the aluminium angle in place, the axis weight now 8.7 kilos.

I am planing to use Nema 23 4NM,any thoughts?

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Nr1madman
30-12-2017, 11:38 AM
Good progress Nick!
You dont have to worry about the weight.. will be fine!
How do you plan on fastening the bearings?
Will you use the T slots or drill and tap the angle that you made?

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Nickhofen
30-12-2017, 11:44 AM
Good progress Nick!
You dont have to worry about the weight.. will be fine!
How do you plan on fastening the bearings?
Will you use the T slots or drill and tap the angle that you made?

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Hi Robert.
I am planning to drill and tap ,the aluminum angle is 5.5 mm thick and made from hard aluminium,if that option fail I am going to use the T nuts.
I wish a Happy New Year for you and your family!
Happy New Year to all members of this forum!!

Nickhofen
30-12-2017, 04:54 PM
We expect some visitors in about one hour but I manage to paint the CNC bench today black and the sides where the Y axis extrusions are going to rest... yellow.:yahoo:
23521

Nr1madman
30-12-2017, 05:29 PM
Hi Robert.
I am planning to drill and tap ,the aluminum angle is 5.5 mm thick and made from hard aluminium,if that option fail I am going to use the T nuts.
I wish a Happy New Year for you and your family!
Happy New Year to all members of this forum!!Sounds like a plan ;)

I wish you a happy new year aswell, forget the machine and spend it with the family ;)

Opa!

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Nr1madman
30-12-2017, 05:31 PM
We expect some visitors in about one hour but I manage to paint the CNC bench today black and the sides where the Y axis extrusions are going to rest... yellow.:yahoo:
23521Looking sweet! Yellow and black go good together :D

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Nickhofen
30-12-2017, 05:45 PM
Yellow and black is a cool commination and maches with my bandsaw and thickness planer I have .lol!
Also those are the colors of the football team my son support, the colors i choose is a surprise for him!

Nickhofen
07-01-2018, 08:16 PM
I am ready to pull the trigger and order 4x Nema 23 4NM from cnc4you.co.uk , any preferences for a breakout board from there and maybe for drivers?
Or what ever I can order all in once so I wont pay the shipping cost twice, thanks!

Nr1madman
07-01-2018, 08:28 PM
I am ready to pull the trigger and order 4x Nema 23 4NM from cnc4you.co.uk , any preferences for a breakout board from there and maybe for drivers?
Or what ever I can order all in once so I wont pay the shipping cost twice, thanks!Personally I did not like their electronics. Nothing seemed like a bargain :)
Have you thought about motion controllers or/and BOBs?
Was thinking of getting pulleys from there but when I ordered they didnt have htd pulleys. Dont know if they have them now?

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Nickhofen
07-01-2018, 08:56 PM
Breakout board is in the list, pulleys is a good idea, I just check and see that they have some!
Thanks!

Nickhofen
08-01-2018, 05:08 PM
When you measure the depth of nut housing bracket for ordering your screws, remember that the tapering stops 3 to 4 mm before the maximum depth.
I realize that a little bit late but the fix was easy...
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Nickhofen
08-01-2018, 05:20 PM
And here is a useful article for guys who do not know (me):toot:, how to assembly the ballscrew with the BF and BK bearing blocks!

http://www.hobbycncaustralia.com.au/Instructions/iH101Ballscrew.htm

hanermo2
12-01-2018, 09:02 PM
You will probably dislike my advice ..
Which is unfortunate, since it is excellent and will help You a lot.

All, absolutely all cnc and mills/routers/machines depend on rigidity.
A common error using linear guides is comparing the max strength of a linear guide to actual work, or load.

A typical old manual lathe, 11-12", has 50 metric tons "strength".
But cutting loads are 50-100 kgf.

The reality is that modern machine tools are about 2% loaded at max vs strength.

Nickhofen
12-01-2018, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the advice Hanermo2!
What do you suggest me to do ?
Hola to Sevilla ,Malaga,Barchelona....I can't recall other cities I have visited,it's been a long time.

hanermo2
17-01-2018, 03:41 PM
Hi nickofen !
*Everything* depends on your goals ..
and capacity and productivity depend on rigidity above all else.

Ex.
I could cut about 0.1-0.2 mm deep with a typical setup, using a 50 mm wide 4 insert apkt facemill.
(12" Lathe, upgraded ac servo spindle 2.5 kW continuous.)
I built a modular vice using 4 pieces of 50x100-300 mm solid tool steel billets, cross-drilled for 16 mm hardened industrial grade 12.8 bolts.
Vice took 3-4 days to do, and the 4 parts mass == 50 kg.

I could then cut the same piece, about 200x200x80 mm, with 3.4 mm deep cuts at double the rpm.
The difference in productivity is about 10:1 - 20:1.

I don´t think there is a "right" answer, but vastly bigger and heavier and thicker is usually the right choice for *everything* in lathes and mills and routers.

They deliver about 20x the performance, typically for 100-150€ more in steel costs and 2 days extra work in assembly work and fitup, per assy.

Nickhofen
18-01-2018, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the reply Henermo!

Nickhofen
18-01-2018, 07:26 PM
Vfd an d spindle is here! I have to find time and connect them to test if everything is ok. Is 1.2 mm non shielded wire ok for connecting vfd with spindle?
For corrosion prevention do I have to use solution of car antifreeze liquid with water? I have read somewhere about a solution of a special anticorrosion oil with water....

Desertboy
18-01-2018, 07:59 PM
Vfd an d spindle is here! I have to find time and connect them to test if everything is ok. Is 1.2 mm non shielded wire ok for connecting vfd with spindle?
For corrosion prevention do I have to use solution of car antifreeze liquid with water? I have read somewhere about a solution of a special anticorrosion oil with water....

I have a 2.2kw from solar jean I never added anything to the water still coming out clear in the pipes can't see anything in the bottom of the tub I have clear lines which is not good get black ones if possible (Algae).

I have an ozone pond cleaner which I'll add when I remember lol this will eliminate algae and in the abscence of visible corrosion in the reservoir I'm going to not worry lol.

I used 1.5mm but reading up 1mm would be fine as well BUT you need it shielded (CY) VFD creates a lot of interference and the most likely thing to cause you issues in the cnc.

I haven't shielded mine YET and seen no issues but I would not cut anything properly until I have (I only need to connect to earth, it's all in place)

Nickhofen
18-01-2018, 08:19 PM
Thanks for the reply Desertboy, I will go for shielded cables then, the cost is not much higher than the non shielded, so it is better to be CY and block all interfierence that I can.

Desertboy
18-01-2018, 08:24 PM
All modern VFDs use power devices known as IGBTs. These devices make it possible to minimize annoying audible noise by using switching frequencies beyond the audible range. Unfortunately, VFDs using IGBTs, present a high potential for generating RFI - Radio Frequency Interference.

http://www.vfds.org/vfd-and-rfi-708163.html

Nickhofen
19-01-2018, 02:07 PM
Nice site,many good info there....

Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 06:58 PM
I've been waiting for 42 days for the T slot nuts to come from China and finally come and with them the frustrating reality!
Nuts was shorter by .20 and this make them turn and not lock in the aluminium slot!
I cover the T nuts with self adhesive tape and solve the problem, this took me one day to think it since my nerves was not in good condition,as I was keep thinking that if I make a new order, it will take another 40 days to arrive!
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Nr1madman
11-02-2018, 07:02 PM
Good to hear you solved the problem!
Its frustrating when you get parts that dont follow the specs ;)

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Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 07:24 PM
Put the rails on the aluminium extrusions and run the caliper.
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Desertboy
11-02-2018, 07:26 PM
I'm going to glue 2 T nuts together so they can't twist in the slot for my clamps to make it easier to release, move and retighten.

Is that M6 thread with a 10mm slot?

Nr1madman
11-02-2018, 07:29 PM
I'm going to glue 2 T nuts together so they can't twist in the slot for my clamps to make it easier to release, move and retighten.Smart stuff ;)

Or you can just buy the longer ones?
They cant be "dropped down" but thats true if you glue two aswell

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Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 07:30 PM
Good to hear you solved the problem!
Its frustrating when you get parts that dont follow the specs ;)

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Thanks Robert.
Yes it is frustrating but the sooner you calm, improvise and adapt you can solve the problem, it took me one whole day!

Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 07:36 PM
I'm going to glue 2 T nuts together so they can't twist in the slot for my clamps to make it easier to release, move and retighten.

Is that M6 thread with a 10mm slot?

Those are M6 with 8mm slot, they was suppose to be 19.5mm but actually they are 19.28mm.

Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 07:42 PM
I'm going to glue 2 T nuts together so they can't twist in the slot for my clamps to make it easier to release, move and retighten.

Is that M6 thread with a 10mm slot?

Why didn't you write that yesterday???:joyous:

Desertboy
11-02-2018, 07:45 PM
If you have a router table make them yourself that's my plan if I ever need to mount hiwin's again with extrusion.

But if you need more I can get them from KJN and post them to you for cost I'm 3 miles (4km) away from them and need to go for more T nuts this week for my clamps so it;s no hassle.

They're £4 for 10 I needed 100 for my hiwin's so I bitterly know this lol.

23744

Took this in their entrance, this would cost stupid money lol. Extrusion is not cheap.

Nickhofen
11-02-2018, 07:52 PM
If you have a router table make them yourself that's my plan if I ever need to mount hiwin's again with extrusion.

But if you need more I can get them from KJN and post them to you for cost I'm 3 miles (4km) away from them and need to go for more T nuts this week for my clamps so it;s no hassle.

They're £4 for 10 I needed 100 for my hiwin's so I bitterly know this lol.

23744

Took this in their entrance, this would cost stupid money lol. Extrusion is not cheap.


Thanks mate,that is very kind of you, I appreciate it.
For now I am good but I will keep in mind your offer, thanks again!!!

Nickhofen
12-02-2018, 01:34 PM
Where can I find HDT5 pulleys with 10mm bore, any suggestion?

Chaz
12-02-2018, 02:03 PM
Where can I find HDT5 pulleys with 10mm bore, any suggestion?

http://www.beltingonline.com - Very good to deal with.

Nickhofen
12-02-2018, 02:29 PM
http://www.beltingonline.com - Very good to deal with.

Thanks for the reply, are there any pulleys with a 10 mm hole already in the middle,or I am missing something,I can find only with 6 and 8 mm HDT5 pulleys at beltingonline.

wallyblackburn
12-02-2018, 02:54 PM
Where can I find HDT5 pulleys with 10mm bore, any suggestion?

Not sure if this helps, but I just ordered some on eBay in US. from China:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HTD-5M-20T-16W-5-6-6-35-8-10-12-12-7-14-15-17-Bore-Pitch-5mm-Timing-Belt-Pulley/252402877902?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=551250492876&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I figured they wouldn't ship until after Chinese New Year, but they are supposedly on their way. Obviously, I can't yet speak to quality...

Regards,
Wallace

Nickhofen
12-02-2018, 03:06 PM
Thanks Wallace, I will check them!

Clive S
12-02-2018, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the reply, are there any pulleys with a 10 mm hole already in the middle,or I am missing something,I can find only with 6 and 8 mm HDT5 pulleys at beltingonline.

They quite often just have pilot hole but have you asked them if they can bore them out for you, don't forget grub screws

I have just checked http://www.beltingonline.com/20-tooth-htd5-pulley-20-5m-15f-7776 there is an option for the boring and grub screw holes. bit expensive thou , not hard to do.

Davek0974
12-02-2018, 05:12 PM
They quite often just have pilot hole but have you asked them if they can bore them out for you, don't forget grub screws

I have just checked http://www.beltingonline.com/20-tooth-htd5-pulley-20-5m-15f-7776 there is an option for the boring and grub screw holes. bit expensive thou , not hard to do.

I usually let them do it, its a bit of faffing about that i can do without for the sake of 3 or 4 quid, plus getting the grub screws as well :)

Nickhofen
12-02-2018, 07:39 PM
Thanks guys, I just login to report that I saw that there is an option for modifying bore etc. and see your answers!

Nickhofen
24-02-2018, 11:36 AM
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PC-5M-20T-Timing-Pulley-16mm-Belt-Width-5mm-6mm-6-35mm-8mm-10mm-12mm-12/32803764373.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb 201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343 _10340_10341_10084_10083_10618_10630_10304_10307_1 0302_5711211_5722315_10313_10059_10534_100031_1010 3_10627_10626_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_571131 3_10142,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=01c797d8-67ec-4d1e-8adf-00e8bcb64275-2&algo_pvid=01c797d8-67ec-4d1e-8adf-00e8bcb64275&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

I found those at aliexpress, they are made from aluminum alloy come with 10mm bore and two screw holes.
I am going to use 1/1 ratio for X Y and 1.5/1 for Z , are those any good, anyone has experience with those?
Any suggestions about the belts?

Nickhofen
24-02-2018, 11:46 AM
Just notice that they seems to be the same with those Wallace suggest ,with no shipping cost...

Nr1madman
24-02-2018, 07:59 PM
Hey Nick!

If you have the right length on your end machining on the ballscrew I think it's better to use pulleys with a shoulder with the setscrews and not the ones with bored out teeth.
I think it's kinder on the belt :)

driftspin
24-02-2018, 08:33 PM
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PC-5M-20T-Timing-Pulley-16mm-Belt-Width-5mm-6mm-6-35mm-8mm-10mm-12mm-12/32803764373.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb 201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343 _10340_10341_10084_10083_10618_10630_10304_10307_1 0302_5711211_5722315_10313_10059_10534_100031_1010 3_10627_10626_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_571131 3_10142,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=01c797d8-67ec-4d1e-8adf-00e8bcb64275-2&algo_pvid=01c797d8-67ec-4d1e-8adf-00e8bcb64275&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

I found those at aliexpress, they are made from aluminum alloy come with 10mm bore and two screw holes.
I am going to use 1/1 ratio for X Y and 1.5/1 for Z , are those any good, anyone has experience with those?
Any suggestions about the belts?Thanx for this link :-)

Need to order too.


Grtz Bert.



Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

Nickhofen
07-03-2018, 06:24 PM
Came from work today and a box was waiting for me,motors are here!:emmersed:
23891
23892
AM882 are one their way home and I have to decide about the breakout board, any suggestions?

Desertboy
07-03-2018, 06:57 PM
Came from work today and a box was waiting for me,motors are here!:emmersed:
23891
23892
AM882 are one their way home and I have to decide about the breakout board, any suggestions?

Nice, 3nm?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-with-optical-coupler-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-MACH3/282673162800?epid=13011003025&hash=item41d0a22a30:g:qp4AAOSw4DJaZvGY

These are compatible with Mach 3 and Linuxcnc but if you want to use Mach 3 it has restrictions no later than Windows 7 and 32bit only. Step generation is done by the processor on the PC performance can be very acceptable and it's a very cheap place to start it also has proven reliability people have run setup's like this for over a decade now with no issues. You will need an old pc pentium 4's work well and have parallel ports built in generally.

Other options normally are step generators and cost a lot more but performance will be better, one to watch is boards are generally Mach 3 or Linuxcnc not both. Mach has a lot of USB controllers which work via plugins linuxcnc has no usb options at all! USB is crap TBH and should be avoided. Not sure what other options for Mach 3, Linuxcnc everyone gets a Mesa card be it PCI or Ethernet.

You could also buy a ddscv see Boran's excellent thread, for the price not a bad choice at all and I was tempted.

If you want dual homing on the Y axis (so it squares the gantry automatically) mach 3 or linuxcnc is your choice can be accomplished with a cheap breakout board. In the end this is what swumg it for me to stick with linuxcnc rather than get the standalone controller.

cropwell
07-03-2018, 07:12 PM
If you are spending all that much on the motors and drivers, then I would go for a proper motion controller not a Parallel port BOB.

Desertboy
07-03-2018, 07:42 PM
If you are spending all that much on the motors and drivers, then I would go for a proper motion controller not a Parallel port BOB.

For me I wanted to try both mach 3 and linuxcnc first before I locked myself into a vendor with an expensive controller purchase. I had a feeling you'd have to be a sadist to setup linuxcnc and I was right lol but I'm happy with linuxcnc (Never tried Mach in the end) so I've invested in a decent pci controller/step generator. I couldn't find a controller that was compatible with both Mach and Linuxcnc other than the PP BOB's.

These seems popular for Mach
https://www.ebay.com/p/Ethernet-SmoothStepper-Control-Board-for-Mach3-and-Mach4-6-Axis-With-Cable/1080944698?iid=122092303470

Nickhofen
07-03-2018, 08:12 PM
Thanks both of you guys for taking the time to reply.
I have a pc with parallel port and Mach3 that I used to use with my previous CNC, so ni money to spent there for now.
Desertboy,I will find the Boran's thread and read it ,thanks for the input.
Cropwell ,I thought that parallel pots was superior that USB! Am I wrong?I am asking to learn,the only experience I have is with parallel ports.

cropwell
07-03-2018, 08:53 PM
Cropwell ,I thought that parallel pots was superior that USB! Am I wrong?I am asking to learn,the only experience I have is with parallel ports.

Actually, I have only experience of PP BOBs.

23893
I bought this beast because it was cheap and I intended to use it for my current machine and/or the next build, but various bits of my life got in the way, so it sits in a cupboard, next to the Super-PID speed controller for my router. One day, Maybe !!!

I just think that Printer Ports are soon to be history, like floppy disks and you would be better served by looking forward rather than staying stuck in the past.

Desertboy
07-03-2018, 08:53 PM
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10187-DDSCV1-1-3-and-4-axis-offline-motion-controller

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-500KHz-CNC-4-Axis-Engraving-Machine-Control-G-Code-Stepper-Motor-Driver/282761726315?hash=item41d5e9896b:g:hi0AAOSwH-daPdYA

JAZZCNC
07-03-2018, 10:14 PM
I thought that parallel pots was superior that USB! Am I wrong?I am asking to learn,the only experience I have is with parallel ports.

Can't really look at it in better or worse terms because the main reason for USB connection is to allow use of external motion controller which have much higher spec than parallel port. So it's not really fair to compare to PP.
The parallel port is limited to 25Khz for stable operation, if you have really good PC setup then possibly can reach 45Khz maximum.
Also the quality of pulse generation on external motion controller is often much higher quality which allows much faster and Smoother operation. Hence why often get called "Smooth Stepper" after the Original Mach3 based USB motion controller made by Warp9 in US.
The other main difference is the number of I/O it allows. The PP is much more limited.

So if you don't require high feed rates with high Micro stepping rates and can live with 5 inputs and 2 Outputs then PP will work fine.

USB will allow motion controller with more I/O and Speed and connection via laptop etc but does have some issues with reliabilty regards dropping connections and inteference from outside sources. It's also funerable to reliabilty with Windows getting in the way so needs careful setup of PC to stop interuptions while using machine.

If you want better solution then go with Ethernet based controller like Cslabs or UC300eth.

Clive S
07-03-2018, 11:28 PM
If you want better solution then go with Ethernet based controller like Cslabs or UC300eth.Or Linuxcnc:beer:

JAZZCNC
08-03-2018, 12:19 AM
Or Linuxcnc:beer:

Or if you have lots of spare hair go with Linuxcnc.:smiley_simmons:

Desertboy
08-03-2018, 02:25 PM
Or if you have lots of spare hair go with Linuxcnc.:smiley_simmons:

With the money saved I can get a Donald Trump wig!

Setting linuxcnc up for dual homing with a hb04 pendant is exactly as much fun as having your teeth pulled lol but get over the hump and all's good ;)

Nickhofen
08-03-2018, 06:44 PM
Actually, I have only experience of PP BOBs.

23893
I bought this beast because it was cheap and I intended to use it for my current machine and/or the next build, but various bits of my life got in the way, so it sits in a cupboard, next to the Super-PID speed controller for my router. One day, Maybe !!!

I just think that Printer Ports are soon to be history, like floppy disks and you would be better served by looking forward rather than staying stuck in the past.

I check the site of cs-lab and it seems that your motion controoller costs 560 euros, this is the cheap one? IT SEEMS THAT I AM DOOMED!!!:sorrow: LOL!

Davek0974
08-03-2018, 07:05 PM
I check the site of cs-lab and it seems that your motion controoller costs 560 euros, this is the cheap one? IT SEEMS THAT I AM DOOMED!!!:sorrow: LOL!

They are very good though ;)

Desertboy
08-03-2018, 07:10 PM
I check the site of cs-lab and it seems that your motion controoller costs 560 euros, this is the cheap one? IT SEEMS THAT I AM DOOMED!!!:sorrow: LOL!

£5 BOB doesn't seem so bad now lol.

Linuxcnc and a Mesa card is my vote if on a budget
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5I25-Superport-FPGA-based-PCI-Anything-I-O-card-by-Mesa/272930377353?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

You can use a cheap BOB to get going (The 5i25 will talk to it directly) and buy a mesa BOB for better performance later (£120) but you probably won't need it.

I can help you get setup as I'm just doing it right now ;) Ask me again in a week if it works lol.

cropwell
08-03-2018, 07:13 PM
I check the site of cs-lab and it seems that your motion controoller costs 560 euros, this is the cheap one? IT SEEMS THAT I AM DOOMED!!!:sorrow: LOL!

I didn't pay anything like that, it was so much cheaper I couldn't let the chance go by.

Nickhofen
08-03-2018, 07:21 PM
£5 bob doesn't seem so bad now lol.

linuxcnc and a mesa card is my vote if on a budget
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5i25-superport-fpga-based-pci-anything-i-o-card-by-mesa/272930377353?sspagename=strk%3amebidx%3ait&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

you can use a cheap bob to get going (the 5i25 will talk to it directly) and buy a mesa bob for better performance later (£120) but you probably won't need it.

I can help you get setup as i'm just doing it right now ;) ask me again in a week if it works lol.

lol!!!

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 06:09 PM
It seems that i mess things up.
I order first two AM882 stepper drive they are on the way and today I discover that they are not the -H version, how bad is that?

cropwell
13-03-2018, 06:15 PM
It seems that i mess things up.
I order first two AM882 stepper drive they are on the way and today I discover that they are not the -H version, how bad is that?

Send 'em back !

Desertboy
13-03-2018, 06:20 PM
It seems that i mess things up.
I order first two AM882 stepper drive they are on the way and today I discover that they are not the -H version, how bad is that?

No problem at all I have 1 AM882 and 3 AM882h the only differences are the h are rated for AC and also for a slightly higher input voltage (100vdc instead of 80vdc)

feed them ~70v dc and they perform identically, I mixed them and I don't know which one is which lol they all fire stall protect fine if I drive the machine to hard and jumper setting are universal between them.

In future I am going to buy 4 AM882h's for a bigger build but I have a spare toroidal transformer that outputs 78v when rectifed which is high for the AM882's but fine for the AM882h's.

One thing I'm sure is just good practise is if you have a dual ballscrew Y axis using 2 AM882's (Or h's) on that axis and not mixing them.

Clive S
13-03-2018, 06:53 PM
It seems that i mess things up.
I order first two AM882 stepper drive they are on the way and today I discover that they are not the -H version, how bad is that?

Nick The main difference is that the H version can accept AC input and a higher DC input. It is difficult to find AM882's drive now.

Don't panic they are fine.

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 07:14 PM
Thanks guys for the input,Cropwell I think of that but the shipping cost from here to China is very high unfortunately.
Desertboy that is the first thing that came to my mind ,the other two for the Y axis to be am882h, good input about the voltage rate.
Clive now he only thing I have to concern is that when I receive the Am's and open the box from mail ,not to have two monkeys drives to jump out instead of the real thing,haha!

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 07:21 PM
I believe it is time for me to start building the power supply!
The motors I have are those:
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-4Nm-60BYGH401-03-Nema23?search=Nema%2023
And the drivers ...well you guys know!:hysterical:
Any diagram to follow and rate of the components for my driver's? Thanks!

Clive S
13-03-2018, 07:30 PM
I believe it is time for me to start building the power supply!
The motors I have are those:
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-4Nm-60BYGH401-03-Nema23?search=Nema%2023
And the drivers ...well you guys know!:hysterical:
Any diagram to follow and rate of the components for my driver's? Thanks!

See this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OoQQg76ar4&list=PL1FIADAKba_tiLqXbUkzD30sZjtp_VyqY Joes vid is good

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 08:07 PM
Thanks Clive, I was looking for this video,it is from the first I see here at the forum, but couldn't recall who build it and took the video,I am getting old!

Clive S
13-03-2018, 08:15 PM
Thanks Clive, I was looking for this video,it is from the first I see here at the forum, but couldn't recall who build it and took the video,I am getting old!

Not as old as me but if you need the list of part from Rapid https://www.rapidonline.com/NewProducts?ra_source=header-bar let me know.

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 08:18 PM
Not as old as me but if you need the list of part from Rapid https://www.rapidonline.com/NewProducts?ra_source=header-bar let me know.

Yes I would love to have it!!!

Clive S
13-03-2018, 10:45 PM
Yes I would love to have it!!!

OK
1No. https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-500-225-500va-toroidal-transformer-2x115v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0033
some people use 24-24v secondary depends how high you mains voltage is. I don't know what your supply is? for the primary

3 No. https://www.rapidonline.com/jianghai-ecs2abz472mt6p23550-4700uf-100v-snap-in-alum-elect-cap-85-4khrs-59-6175

3 No. https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep0882-p-35mm-nylon-capacitor-mounting-clamp-11-3004

1 No. https://www.rapidonline.com/dc-components-kbpc5006-bridge-rectifier-50a-600v-47-1012

Desertboy
14-03-2018, 07:20 AM
Test your input before buying a coil

220-240v you want ~50v output before rectified.
240v-260v (I get 252v's in which is very high) get a 45v this will give you ~70v when rectified to DC.

UK used to run at 240v and rest of EU at 220v but it was standardised almost 20 years ago at 230v in reality nothing changed because the leeway allowed on voltage meant that 240v systems fell into the acceptable performance. In Lithuania where the infrastructure has only recently been upgraded I got 230v but I noticed in Berlin I was getting 220v's as the infrastructure pre-dated the 230v regs.

I would bet Nick falls into the 220v-240v zone.

Get 2 rectifiers as they're £1 each too cheap not to have a spare even though they are super reliable, I managed to blow one up with transformer lol.

At home my voltage is ~240v at work it's always over 250v so my theory is they are pumping higher voltages to industrial sites to compensate for the much higher inductive loads on the system.

Nickhofen
15-03-2018, 08:42 AM
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10187-DDSCV1-1-3-and-4-axis-offline-motion-controller

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-500KHz-CNC-4-Axis-Engraving-Machine-Control-G-Code-Stepper-Motor-Driver/282761726315?hash=item41d5e9896b:g:hi0AAOSwH-daPdYA

I read Boran's thread,very good I must say.
If I understand correct ,for someone who uses two stepper motors at Y axis,like me,you can not slave one of the motors and save an exit for future use for a 4th axis,right?

Desertboy
15-03-2018, 08:58 AM
I read Boran's thread,very good I must say.
If I understand correct ,for someone who uses two stepper motors at Y axis,like me,you can not slave one of the motors and save an exit for future use for a 4th axis,right?

Can't you just run the Y axis step and dir to 2 stepper drivers?

Sure there's no dual homing but with AM882's once it's square the stall protect will tell if you if it's out of square although keep an engineers square next to the gantry and it doesn't take long to calibrate.

Clive S
15-03-2018, 09:16 AM
I read Boran's thread,very good I must say.
If I understand correct ,for someone who uses two stepper motors at Y axis,like me,you can not slave one of the motors and save an exit for future use for a 4th axis,right?

Nick from what I understand those controllers will not do slave axis as you require. Although you can connect the step output to two drives I would certainly NOT recommend it. You need a controller that will handle dual homing if you intend to use twin motors as it will then square the gantry every time you home the machine.

Clive S
15-03-2018, 09:22 AM
the stall protect will tell if you if it's out of square This is not true. You could be out of square say about 5mm and the two motors would still run also stall detect as I understand it does not work below about 300rpm

Nr1madman
28-03-2018, 07:15 PM
So what is happening with the black and yellow monster? :)

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Nickhofen
28-03-2018, 07:55 PM
Oh I am busted....haha.
The two am882 are here the other two am882h is on the way,I am waiting also for my toroid transformer to build the power supply.
I can not decide about the bob and motion controller ,I need something to move four motors for now and one more for the A axis in the future.:-(

Nr1madman
28-03-2018, 08:25 PM
What are you ruling out?
Several BOBs are 5 axis?
Are there motion controllers that are only 4? (Except the stand alone stuff you talked about above)

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Nickhofen
28-03-2018, 08:48 PM
I believe this is the only exception and I can tell that I am leaning towards the uc300 since the DDSCV can not support my four motors and a fifth for a 4th axis in the future,but about bob...I can't decide. :-/

Nickhofen
29-03-2018, 10:29 AM
Any suggestions are welcome....:beer:

Nr1madman
29-03-2018, 11:25 AM
I have no ideas for you.. I went with the 5$ bob.
Beginning to question if that was a good plan !

All the expensive ones seem good... But expensive ;)

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Nickhofen
29-03-2018, 01:45 PM
There must be a solution somewhere in the middle out there..lol

JAZZCNC
29-03-2018, 01:53 PM
I have no ideas for you.. I went with the 5$ bob.
Beginning to question if that was a good plan !

All the expensive ones seem good... But expensive ;)

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Cheap Bob's are like playing Russian roulette with a nearly full magazine.!! . . . . Long term they are not worth the hassle because at some point they will fail or cause issues along the way which will appear like coming from other areas of the machine. Before I started with CNC I had full head of hair and now I Dazzle planes on sunny day and I blame all on of cheap BOB's.!!!:dejection:

Nickhofen
29-03-2018, 02:32 PM
Cheap Bob's are like playing Russian roulette with a nearly full magazine.!! . . . . Long term they are not worth the hassle because at some point they will fail or cause issues along the way which will appear like coming from other areas of the machine. Before I started with CNC I had full head of hair and now I Dazzle planes on sunny day and I blame all on of cheap BOB's.!!!:dejection:

I work at Air Force so I have enough help from my job to grow a bald! Lol!!!
Any suggestions about a proper bob that I can make it work like a Swiss clock with the uc300 and all that at an affordable price...ops!

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 11:36 AM
Finish the power supply, thanks everyone for the help.
24063
24064
24065

Clive S
15-04-2018, 12:14 PM
Brill:applause:

It is good practise to not to daisy chain the 70V across each drive ie. use separate power leads from each drive to a common block and then connect the PS to the block. This ensures you are not getting a volt drop to each drive from the first one.

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 12:23 PM
Thanks Clive, I will keep this in mind!!!

Desertboy
15-04-2018, 01:34 PM
That's super tidy, I see you went DC in the end. What voltage output transformer is it? 50v?

I wired the transformer to a 13 amp light style switch and then my VFD and water pump to another switch and both of them are wired from the emergency stop.

This way I can easily turn the transformer on/off and if the vfd is powered the water pump is on. I have both switches and the emergency stop at the front of the machine for easy access in a row.

If I hit the emergency stop it kills power to both the steppers and the vfd, I still have to work out how to get it to trigger an estop on the pc but it's good enough for me at the moment.

cropwell
15-04-2018, 03:21 PM
I still have to work out how to get it to trigger an estop on the pc but it's good enough for me at the moment.
Just use a relay with a 230VAC coil.

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 04:28 PM
Thank you both for the idea, any wiring diagram will be helpful.
Desertboy you are right it is a 50V output transformer.
24070

Nr1madman
15-04-2018, 05:15 PM
Nice progress!
Does it feel good to move forwards? :D

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cropwell
15-04-2018, 06:45 PM
Does it feel good to move forwards? :D
In my case it would be good to get back to where I started - spent the afternoon reassembling my lathe and getting the safety switches operating reliably. Then reinstalled the VFD (when I took it out months ago to fix the broken mounting lugs, I photographed the connections and labelled them as I disconnected each one). Now I am getting a code that says low DC bus. I sense a new thread coming if I can't sort it easily.

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 06:50 PM
Nice progress!
Does it feel good to move forwards? :D

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I feel that I have so much to do that this looks like a baby step....thanks for the motivation!

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 06:52 PM
In my case it would be good to get back to where I started - spent the afternoon reassembling my lathe and getting the safety switches operating reliably. Then reinstalled the VFD (when I took it out months ago to fix the broken mounting lugs, I photographed the connections and labelled them as I disconnected each one). Now I am getting a code that says low DC bus. I sense a new thread coming if I can't sort it easily.

What your multi meter says, did you take any measurements?

cropwell
15-04-2018, 07:13 PM
What your multi meter says, did you take any measurements?

No Sir, It was working fine as a VFD before I took it out. My next step is to double check the connections, but not today, I have had enough. I will start fresh tomorrow, but tonight is beer, roast chicken and relax.
This will be a new thread I'll bet. I don't want to hijack yours !!!

Doddy
15-04-2018, 07:40 PM
Finish the power supply, thanks everyone for the help.


Neat layout.

Minor observation:-

It can be a good idea to wire a bleed resistor across the output - nothing too big, but enough that you're not holding a substantial and dangerous charge long after removing the power.

Also, there's some concern with the use of screw terminals particularly with high-current circuits and when vibration may be present that the screws can loosen over time.

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 07:41 PM
No Sir, It was working fine as a VFD before I took it out. My next step is to double check the connections, but not today, I have had enough. I will start fresh tomorrow, but tonight is beer, roast chicken and relax.
This will be a new thread I'll bet. I don't want to hijack yours !!!

Do not worry about hijacking this thread,just bring the chicken and beers, I will buy some souvlakia with tzatziki also,lol!

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 07:47 PM
Neat layout.

Minor observation:-

It can be a good idea to wire a bleed resistor across the output - nothing too big, but enough that you're not holding a substantial and dangerous charge long after removing the power.

Also, there's some concern with the use of screw terminals particularly with high-current circuits and when vibration may be present that the screws can loosen over time.

Thanks for the observation ,can you point me a value for the resistance and how many watt it should be? I have some laying around here at home.I will change the terminas as soon as the other ones come with the mail.

Doddy
15-04-2018, 07:54 PM
Thanks for the observation ,can you point me a value for the resistance and how many watt it should be? I have some laying around here at home.I will change the terminas as soon as the other ones come with the mail.

Value?, pick a number. I recently ordered 1500 Ohm, 7W wirewound resistors for an 80V supply. Just remember Ohm's law - you can determine the power rating from the voltage and chosen resistor value (P = V*V/R) - the lower the value the quicker it will discharge, but the beefier the resistor needs to be, and the more energy you throw away.

Nickhofen
15-04-2018, 07:54 PM
That's super tidy, I see you went DC in the end. What voltage output transformer is it? 50v?

I wired the transformer to a 13 amp light style switch and then my VFD and water pump to another switch and both of them are wired from the emergency stop.

This way I can easily turn the transformer on/off and if the vfd is powered the water pump is on. I have both switches and the emergency stop at the front of the machine for easy access in a row.

If I hit the emergency stop it kills power to both the steppers and the vfd, I still have to work out how to get it to trigger an estop on the pc but it's good enough for me at the moment.

I went DC because I have two AM 882 and waiting for other two AM882h to come,so DC was one way road....

m_c
15-04-2018, 08:22 PM
Brill:applause:

It is good practise to not to daisy chain the 70V across each drive ie. use separate power leads from each drive to a common block and then connect the PS to the block. This ensures you are not getting a volt drop to each drive from the first one.

I'm going to engage pedant mode for a moment.
It's not to do with volt drop, it's mostly to do with the risk of harmonics.
Stepper drivers are essentially a complex switched mode power supply, which means they don't draw a constant current, they're constantly switching at high speed. If you place multiple of these on the same wire, then you risk harmonics, which is where multiple spikes at the same time lead to high voltage spikes, which can destroy electronics very quickly, and in extreme cases will burn out the wiring, even though the total current may be well within the current limit of the wiring.

Off course the latest drivers are far more likely to contain some internal filtering to help avoid noise being propagated into the supply, as part of them meeting various approvals, which should avoid any harmonic problems.

Avoiding daisy chaining also helps minimise any potential damage from a failed connection, as a connection failure during deceleration is very likely to result in an overvoltage failure, with resultant smoke release from drives. By having them wired direct, the worst case is one drive fails, but if daisy chained, you risk every drive after the bad connection failing.


Personally, I always wire drives directly to the main smoothing capacitor, as it avoids having any more connections in the wiring than needed.

cropwell
15-04-2018, 09:02 PM
Do not worry about hijacking this thread,just bring the chicken and beers, I will buy some souvlakia with tzatziki also,lol!

Trad English Roast Chicken, Stuffing, Roast potatoes, parsnips and braised carrots, None of this forrin stuff :glee:

If you use a 5k bleed resistor, you will not have enough current going through it to significantly affect the PSU in operation and a 2W resistor should handle the current. I don't know what capacitor value you have but 5K will bleed down fast enough.

Neale
15-04-2018, 09:49 PM
A bleed resistor might be useful while you are testing, but once you have a driver or two wired to the power supply, they look like a waste of time. When I checked my machine, the stepper driver power supply was down to a few volts within seconds of cutting power. Any resistor that drains down faster than that is going to need to be a fairly high wattage item, and is going to produce more heat than you probably want in the control box.

Doddy
15-04-2018, 10:01 PM
A bleed resistor might be useful while you are testing, but once you have a driver or two wired to the power supply, they look like a waste of time. When I checked my machine, the stepper driver power supply was down to a few volts within seconds of cutting power. Any resistor that drains down faster than that is going to need to be a fairly high wattage item, and is going to produce more heat than you probably want in the control box.

Provided that the drivers are energising the stepper coils, and are connected, and that there are no failures in the system, and that there is no e-stop isolation.

I'll spend the £1 extra on any >50VDC PSU. Pays your money, takes your choice.

Desertboy
16-04-2018, 08:27 AM
I know on the AM882 when you kill power the LED's flash for ~3-4 seconds extra then when you test the capacitors they drop to a few volts. Same with the VFD so I assume that has a load of capacitors as well, also if you notice PC's do the same thing.

I think it was joe's build where he used a resistor to drain the capacitors which I was going to do but given the AM882's drain them anyway I figured it wasn't a major issue.

I've been shocked with 240v a few times over the years lol but the worst shock I ever got was from a Playstation 2 PSU for several days afterwards I felt in physical shock, last shock was direct from the board lol we have old school fuse holders at work for each phase and one of the fuse holders was missing the screw caps so when I pushed the fuse into the board I was touching the screws than was fun ;)

Oddly enough I went through every fuse holder and chucked the ones missing the caps after that.

Nickhofen
16-04-2018, 09:03 AM
I am starting to flirt with the idea of UC300eth and UB1 any opinions and ideas from where to buy are welcome.

Krammer002
16-04-2018, 03:24 PM
I recently purchased my UC300eth and UB1 combo from CNCRoom and UCCNC software from CNCdrive! Its a smaller world nowadays...

Nickhofen
16-04-2018, 04:25 PM
I recently purchased my UC300eth and UB1 combo from CNCRoom and UCCNC software from CNCdrive! Its a smaller world nowadays...
Thank you for the reply, have you give it a try yet?

Krammer002
16-04-2018, 04:31 PM
It'll be a while before I'm ready to deploy the control system fully, but I will be bench testing in the near future...
I've also purchased the 2017 screenset from Gerry - CNCwoodworker . with a view to creating my own screenset in due course!

Zeeflyboy
16-04-2018, 05:48 PM
Very nice - I need to do a proper power supply at some point too.

Good work!

Nickhofen
16-04-2018, 07:39 PM
Very nice - I need to do a proper power supply at some point too.

Good work!

Thanks, I am sure you wont have problem to build it!

cropwell
17-04-2018, 04:50 PM
In my case it would be good to get back to where I started - spent the afternoon reassembling my lathe and getting the safety switches operating reliably. Then reinstalled the VFD (when I took it out months ago to fix the broken mounting lugs, I photographed the connections and labelled them as I disconnected each one). Now I am getting a code that says low DC bus. I sense a new thread coming if I can't sort it easily.

You find things out which are peripheral to the problem - code Lv on the VFD display only means Low DC bus and this is OK when the power is running down.

But I have diagnosed the problem - I reassembled with the microswitch that is for the headstock gear train safety cover swapped with the chuck guard switch (one is NC and the other NO). So my next session in the workshop will fix that and the covers will go back on. Job done ! No need for a new thread:beer:

Nickhofen
18-04-2018, 08:46 AM
Those are good news cropwell, an easy fix is always preferable than something that will cause headache or need money to be fixed,right? ;-)

Nickhofen
18-04-2018, 08:48 AM
UC300 with UB1 will cost 320$ with out shipping and taxes,this is far away from badget right now.....:devilish:

Desertboy
18-04-2018, 09:02 AM
I feel your pain, that's why I setup with PP BOB originally as the budget just wouldn't stretch over Xmas period so I could play with it, do some calibration and decide if I got on with linuxcnc before spending £300 on hardware which locks me into a vendor I haven't even tried.

I remember you saying you've used mach before so being locked in is probably not an issue to you.

When I was able to sell a kidney I got my electronics ;)

Ironically now I have a machine with good latency I can run it at 9m/min no issues from the PP BOB with 8 microsteps which has made the mesa less essential but obviously I'm still going to use it.

Nickhofen
18-04-2018, 04:55 PM
Yes you remember correctly,I am going to use Mach3 again.
My new senario is to take the uc300eth-5LPT and a crap break out board until I decide which of two kidney to sell,haha!!

Desertboy
18-04-2018, 06:51 PM
Yes you remember correctly,I am going to use Mach3 again.
My new senario is to take the uc300eth-5LPT and a crap break out board until I decide which of two kidney to sell,haha!!

You can also sell one of your eyes and part of your liver ;)

Nickhofen
18-04-2018, 08:16 PM
You can also sell one of your eyes and part of your liver ;)

Ahahahhahaa!
I need both my eyes for my job,but I have a big nose that I can partially sell to get money for my bob....:-P

Nickhofen
20-04-2018, 02:25 PM
I "see" the bob problem coming and finally fix it!!!
24097
Hahaha photo from cnccook book!

Desertboy
21-04-2018, 12:46 PM
I "see" the bob problem coming and finally fix it!!!
24097
Hahaha photo from cnccook book!

Sometimes you have yourself do I really need all that blood ;)

Nickhofen
21-04-2018, 04:53 PM
I know exactly what you mean.You ask your self this guestion all the time especially when you build something that you do not know how it is going to come up,or if your build is going to meet your standards.
But it's a fight we have to give:24103

Nickhofen
28-04-2018, 11:02 AM
I am ready to purchase the pulleys 20 Teeth HTD 5M for XY axis 1:1,at X and Y I use 1610 ballscrews.
At Z I have 1605 ballscrew what rate is recommended to use at the pulleys 1:2 maybe?

JAZZCNC
28-04-2018, 02:00 PM
At Z I have 1605 ballscrew what rate is recommended to use at the pulleys 1:2 maybe?

With 5mm pitch go with 1:1 ratio. This will give you good balance of speed/resolution.

Nickhofen
28-04-2018, 02:22 PM
With 5mm pitch go with 1:1 ratio. This will give you good balance of speed/resolution.

Thanks Dean, I will do that!

Nickhofen
12-05-2018, 04:37 PM
I start cutting and drilling parts from 20mm mdf to see if they fit right, after that I am going to use the mdf parts and my router table to shape the 20mm aluminium.
24205
24206
24207

Nr1madman
12-05-2018, 05:26 PM
Nice! For some parts I wish i made a trialpiece first.. smart! ;)

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Nickhofen
12-05-2018, 05:51 PM
Nice! For some parts I wish i made a trialpiece first.. smart! ;)

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It is time consuming but stress relief!
I use the clear plexiglass to make the holes,this method is fast and accurate,no measurements to take and nothing can go wrong this way,you see thru the plexiglass where you must drill and just drill,freehand.
The you put the Plexi on the mdf or aluminum plate ,put both on the drill press and make your drills nice and square!

Nickhofen
01-06-2018, 04:25 PM
Small update.
First of all I want to say that I am glad for two things untill now, first off all that I start to cut the plates from mdf and not direct on the 20mm aluminium plates.:D
And the second one is that I have those thick aluminium beams!
Warning, cover your eyes this build has nothing to do with what other guys post here :-P
24307
24308
24309
24310
24311

Nickhofen
03-06-2018, 03:49 PM
I am about to order proximity switches and mechanical switches also,any recommendations ?
NPN or PNP and what about the voltages those switches,the proximity works,I find a big difference in working current...:disturbed:

Chaz
03-06-2018, 04:48 PM
I am about to order proximity switches and mechanical switches also,any recommendations ?
NPN or PNP and what about the voltages those switches,the proximity works,I find a big difference in working current...:disturbed:

NPN = normally closed. Basic Amazon ones work fine for general homing / limits (around £7 each)

Nickhofen
03-06-2018, 05:08 PM
NPN = normally closed. Basic Amazon ones work fine for general homing / limits (around £7 each)

Thanks for the reply!
Do I have to use mechanical switches also,I am a little bit confused.:-(

Chaz
03-06-2018, 05:15 PM
Thanks for the reply!
Do I have to use mechanical switches also,I am a little bit confused.:-(

Nope, either or.

Nickhofen
14-06-2018, 04:24 PM
Mount the stepper motor on the Z axis,slowly growing...
24410

Nickhofen
14-06-2018, 04:26 PM
The mail man drop a package this Tuesday !:angel:
24412
24413

driftspin
14-06-2018, 04:33 PM
Hi Nick,

You just made me regret not buying a UB1.

Keep up the good work!


Grtz. Bert.

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Nickhofen
14-06-2018, 05:39 PM
Sorry Bert,I didn't have this intention!

Nickhofen
14-06-2018, 05:41 PM
To much heat at the workshop this time of year,so I am going to start the electronics wirring .
Any diagram to follow?

Nr1madman
15-06-2018, 03:33 AM
The mail man drop a package this Tuesday !:angel:
24412
24413Wooohooo :D

Nice!

Also good to see progress. I like the motormount, how did you cut it ? :)

About the circuit diagram.. do you want minimal but good or somewhat more elaborate?

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Nickhofen
15-06-2018, 06:44 AM
I was lucky with the motor mount ,I just too advantage of the one end of the heavy duty aluminum beam,it was made like that and I cut it with the grind cutter.
About the diagram I want some thing that will work and not burn any driver or something else,haha

Nr1madman
16-06-2018, 04:59 AM
I followed this schematic
https://image.ibb.co/jthYfG/tapatalk_1511816242127.jpg
Its made by a forummember "euricain" I Think..

Then there is this from jazz https://image.ibb.co/bxXMZb/tapatalk_1511818717673.jpg

And I also found lots of inspiration from this. I think it was routercnc that made this one..
https://image.ibb.co/hex2qG/tapatalk_1511815713547.jpg

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Nickhofen
16-06-2018, 08:08 AM
Thanks Robert.
I had the number one and number three schematic,thanks for the second one.
Can I ask why you follow the first schematic?

routercnc
16-06-2018, 11:27 AM
Thanks Robert.
I had the number one and number three schematic,thanks for the second one.
Can I ask why you follow the first schematic?

Yes the last one is mine. Since then I’ve changed the Z drive to DQ860MA to match the others and run off the 68V supply. That allowed me to remove the 30V supply.

As my new Mk4 machine uses 2 Z steppers I’ve added another DQ860MA drive off the same supply so there are 5 drives in total. Otherwise all the safety relays and interlocks are the same. Works well.

Nr1madman
16-06-2018, 02:23 PM
Thanks Robert.
I had the number one and number three schematic,thanks for the second one.
Can I ask why you follow the first schematic?I was set on using the schematic from jazz since I started my build.
Then I read the thread about the first I posted and thought it made sense..
The one from routercnc has alot of extra benefits like bleed resistor and ability to change vfd speed manually.
But I still went with the first :D

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