Do you know a similar cnc machina sold in EUROPE? Piranha Fx

[jonjacson]

Hi folks,

I am a bit frustrated.

After spending some days looking for machines I think I found what I was looking for:

https://www.amazon.com/Next-Wave-Automation-CNC-Piranha/dp/B01426DRN4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496875865&sr=8-1&keywords=cnc+piranha+fx

And the problem is they don't sell to Europe. The other problem is one of the reviers said just a month ago it was 1000$ and now it is 1600$.

It has the right dimensions for me, it says it can cut even soft metals and looks quite stable and made with decent materials (at least that is the impression I have).

I cannot purchase it from Europe.

So folks, do you know something similar sold in Europe?

Thanks!

[Clive S]

Hi Jon and welcome to the forum.
I take it you have read the spec on this machine as it is not very strong in that it is using just round unsupported rails also the router is not included in the price.

I suggest you have a good read through the forum to get an idea what others have done and don't rush and spend your hard earned money until you understand the basics.

Before you buy anything ask as many questions as you like as it is a bit of a learning curve at first. Good luck.

ps. if you need to speak with someone there is a guy up near you called Boyan look him up on the forum

[Seafax]

I'm having the same problems finding a new 4 axis 3040 router that will cut aluminium without too much drama. I'd love a stepmores 3040 (http://www.stepmores.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=31&id=43# - ships from china) or even a Kompas H-400 (http://www.cnc1.eu/en/kompas-h-400.htm - ships from europe) but trying to get fixed specifications and prices from stepmores is a right pita to the point where they're on the verge of talking themselves out of a sale and Kompas just plain haven't answered my emails.

Sturdier than average 4 axis with a spindle in the 1000W+ range, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard would you.

Any ideas anyone?

Col.

[A_Camera]

Hi Jon and welcome to the forum.
I take it you have read the spec on this machine as it is not very strong in that it is using just round unsupported rails also the router is not included in the price.



Also, it seems like it is not using ball screws and the Z clearance is really pretty small. Not seen any real technical specifications, which makes it easy for the seller since if you buy it you get what he delivers and can't even complain.

[A_Camera]

I'm having the same problems finding a new 4 axis 3040 router that will cut aluminium without too much drama. I'd love a stepmores 3040 (http://www.stepmores.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=31&id=43# - ships from china) or even a Kompas H-400 (http://www.cnc1.eu/en/kompas-h-400.htm - ships from europe) but trying to get fixed specifications and prices from stepmores is a right pita to the point where they're on the verge of talking themselves out of a sale and Kompas just plain haven't answered my emails.

Sturdier than average 4 axis with a spindle in the 1000W+ range, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard would you.

Any ideas anyone?

Col.

At least they seem to be honest...

"Perfect for drilling holes or cutting circuit board traces Carving Machinable Wax, Wood, or Plastics!"

I think that is true. Also, it seems pretty well described. It also says that it is: "- Sold as a kit - mechanic - without steppermotors and electronic" so which stepper specifications do you expect? But of course, they should answer your mail. That's really the basic of a business. Did you try their Irish contact? Maybe he is faster.

[Desertboy]

That looks overpriced tat to me I think you were lucky they don't ship to Europe.

[Clive S]

"Perfect for drilling holes or cutting circuit board traces Carving Machinable Wax, Wood, or Plastics!"
They missed out icing cakes:thumbdown:

[jonjacson]

Can you suggest a model with similar dimensions a decent quality and the ability to (at least slowly) mill aluminum?

[Seafax]

Arguably one of the most promising ones I've found so far is the Mini Muscle Mk1 which has quad rails on all three axis but can only move 310x310 mm. http://www.ukcnc.net/index.php/products/mini-muscle-mk2-routing-machine/ so not quite the size we were both looking for but definitely capable of machining ali. One downside for me is that the £1950 orice tag DOESN'T include VAT.

Col... still looking at others.

[jonjacson]

A bit expensive to me too.

The quality is good at least.

[Clive S]

A bit expensive to me too.

The quality is good at least.

You need to state what materials you would like to cut and what size machine. I think you will find it difficult to find a machine under 2K that will be any good. Have you thought about building one?

[Seafax]

I've just this minute finally head back from Kompas regarding their 3040 "H400" machine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3d-cnc-router-engraver-kompas-h400-new-warranty/192182284340?hash=item2cbef4f034

Still trying to find out it's exact specs (it's like trying to get blood out of a stone) but basically it's a 3 axis machine for around a thousand Euros, for an extra 480 Euros You'd get a 4 axis Profi4 controller with next driver for my rotary axis (which is what I waiting to hear) it has supported rails all round, two Y axis steppers (one of each side), and a 130mm Z axis travel.

For me it's biggest plus is the steel frame construction and supported rails all round. It could be better in almost every department (has a distinctly home-made feel to it's construstion) but so far it's looking like that's the best there is for that sort of money.

Col.

[A_Camera]

Arguably one of the most promising ones I've found so far is the Mini Muscle Mk1 which has quad rails on all three axis but can only move 310x310 mm. http://www.ukcnc.net/index.php/products/mini-muscle-mk2-routing-machine/ so not quite the size we were both looking for but definitely capable of machining ali. One downside for me is that the £1950 orice tag DOESN'T include VAT.

Col... still looking at others.

60x20 extrusions... that is for 3D printer, not for a CNC. I would definitely not call that "Mini Muscle". Mini is right, but where is the "muscle"? Also that Z is, even if it uses ball screw, it is still using unsupported curtain rods. I'd be very careful with that machine... I think it promises more than it delivers.

[Seafax]

60x20 extrusions... that is for 3D printer, not for a CNC. I would definitely not call that "Mini Muscle". Mini is right, but where is the "muscle"? Also that Z is, even if it uses ball screw, it is still using unsupported curtain rods. I'd be very careful with that machine... I think it promises more than it delivers.
21863
I think you'll find that the only unsupported rais it has are on the Z axis, but even having siad that there are FOUR of them spaced a good distance apart and held between FOUR X axis colums which in turn run on yet another FOUR supported rails.

Col.

[A_Camera]

A bit expensive to me too.
I you want to buy something worth paying for then you have to be ready to pay for the quality. Personally, if I wanted to buy something I would buy this one:

https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb/x6-2200l-usb-cnc-desktop-engraver.html

...though, I have no experience of this machine, I think this is much better for that price than the previous links show. If it was me, I'd try to negotiate a price without electronics and would buy that separately, but if I'd not be able to build the electronics I'd buy it complete with everything.

Stop dreaming about getting quality products for peanuts. Just face reality and accept that you get what you pay for.

The other option is to do what many here and elsewhere did, build one from scratch. ...but even in this case if you want quality and a rigid machine you have to be prepared to pay for, so in reality I don't think you can build anything cheaper than £1.5-2k and still call it quality. This is an expensive hobby, like almost every other hobby.

[A_Camera]

21863
I think you'll find that the only unsupported rais it has are on the Z axis, but even having siad that there are FOUR of them spaced a good distance apart and held between FOUR X axis colums which in turn run on yet another FOUR supported rails.

Col.

Yes, that's what I am saying...


"Also that Z is, even if it uses ball screw, it is still using unsupported curtain rods."

Yes, four of them, but still. Also, the rest are pretty weak design, 12mm screws and 12mm supported rods that's not a lot at all. Add to that the pretty weak 60x20 extrusions... and it is nowhere near what I'd call "muscle".

It also looks like you'd have huge problems fitting that with a real spindle, other than the Kress, or possibly a tiny Dremel.

[Seafax]

While your take on things might well work for you I totally disagree. The real trick is in finding a cut quality you can live with at a price you can afford and with a learning curve that's in line with what you're prepared to put into owning one.

"Good enough" is subjective, and wel all have our own individual take on it.

Col.

[Desertboy]

A bit expensive to me too.

The quality is good at least.

That's actually cheaper than what you first linked to when you factor in import tax from US and spindle/router.

There's quite a few Chinese machines in that sort of range that are a lot better than the US one you linked to for ~ same price.

You could try the wanted section on here, ebay is only really good for new chinese machines or proper shop machines. Home machines always sell for far more than they are worth.

I know a few people have had success with chinese 3040 & 6040 machines but you need to have to investigate them well before purchase because the machines vary massively in quality and price.

You want 1605 ballscrews all round, nema 23's, supported rail at minimum but linear rail would be better!

[A_Camera]

While your take on things might well work for you I totally disagree. The real trick is in finding a cut quality you can live with at a price you can afford and with a learning curve that's in line with what you're prepared to put into owning one.

"Good enough" is subjective, and wel all have our own individual take on it.

Col.

...but of course... I didn't say anything about "good enough" because as you say, that is very much individual, but for that price you can definitely get something better, and if the one you linked to is "good enough" for you, than the one I linked to is a lot better, and that CANNOT be a disadvantage, especially since the price is about the same. Do you disagree with that? Do you also disagree with that the one you linked to is pretty much oriented towards the Kress or smaller? If you don't care, that's fine, but of course, it is a disadvantage, because the Kress is an angle grinder motor with brushes and it uses special collets, and those are expensive compared to the more common ER11 or ER16 type....

...so when you say you "totally disagree", you totally disagree with what exactly? The facts that 60x20 is pretty weak, especially if it is aimed at metal works and claimed to be a "mini muscle"? I am not saying that it is not good enough for you, I have no idea about your preference, but please allow me to think differently based on my own experience.

[Seafax]

Camera...please get your head round the simple fact that you recommending something that's even more expensive that what's already ruled out on the basis of cost is very annoying and quite frankly makes you come across as a bit of a prat.

We're not discussing which is the best machine... we're discussing what we can afford.

And if you can't contribute anything on that subject then please don't contribute at all.

Col.

[ChrisJ]

I was looking at a Kompass machine myself (albeit I needed something bigger than the 3040 format) and came to the conclusion that it was decent value for money. My questions were answered very quickly by Jan Dudas at CauCau, so no complaints there. In the end, I decided that I wanted linear rails rather than supported round rails and readjusted my budget and manufacturer accordingly (to AccTek). I was also considering an OmioCNC machine but was put off by the stories of poor customer service. Shame, because the machines look well specified. My decision to buy a Chinese machine was based on value for money for the given specification, but the cost of shipping, VAT, duty and delivery to the UK (the machine I'm looking weighs over 200kg) adds about 50% to the manufacturers price.

Chris

[Seafax]

Thanks for that Chris. AccTek make some very mice machines.