BUILD LOG: My Cheapo Chineese 3020t mini CNC Build (more like improvements) leanring all the way [Archive]

ravihotwok

04-07-2017, 08:16 AM

As the control box which came with the machine had a faulty x axis driver I didn't want to exchange it for another cheap one, so I asked a few question on here and got some very good responses, all of which were pretty much above my head. As I have already purchased the Planet CNC software I thought it would make sense to purchase their own control box as I think the support they can provide would be very beneficial to myself being a complete novice. The box arrived on Monday, only ordered it on the Friday so I was very impressed with the delivery time. Once arrived I unpacked it, looked at it a bit confused then managed to find a spare half hour to start assembling it. Work was halted though when I realised my soldering iron was at home.
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ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 07:41 AM

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 07:44 AM

Then it was to solder the small on off switch and power from the mains plug
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Here is a pic of the old driver board v the new Planet driver board, you can see the quality difference straight away (I just hope this one works)
old
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New
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ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 07:51 AM

Now I had to wire in the cables for the limit switches, this was a little bit fiddly, I used a few small pieces of heat shrink to help keep the cables together.
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Now to attached the ribbons for each axis.
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Thats all I managed last night, all that needs doing now is wiring the octocoupler in (which I have no idea what that is)

Really happy with it so far, hopefully have it fired up in the next few days fingers crossed

Clive S

05-07-2017, 07:58 AM

Its hard to see and I am not picking holes but the soldering on the board does not look good. Its looks like it is balled up that is an indication of a newbie not leaving the iron on long enough for the sold to flow (common mistake) I would re flow some of the joints.

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 08:10 AM

Clive S

05-07-2017, 08:21 AM

pick away clive mate
this is what I need so I welcome any advice mate. Before I made that sort of ball on the top I filled the hole underneath with solder, then tried to get that dome shape just for neatness, but I did fill the prong on the switch. Not to sure if I soften the solder I can do much else

Are you applying the solder to the iron and then putting it on the part if so that is wrong. You need to put the iron on the part and then apply the solder to the part and you should see it flow. Some people when learning just dab the iron but the part needs about 1-2 secs of heat depending how big the iron is.

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 08:32 AM

No mate, I watched a few tutorials on youtube, I held the tip of the iron against the prong on the switch for a short while then placed the wire against the prong, as soon as it melted I let it fill the hole till about 3mm, then I removed the wire and slowly lifted the iron away to leave that dome shape. I was also careful to keep the end of the iron clean with a special sponge I bought from maplin. I never realised just how fiddly soldering is! and time consuming,

Clive S

05-07-2017, 08:35 AM

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 08:45 AM

time wise? think it was about5 - 8 sec? not too sure if im honest clive mate, but when it was melting plenty seeped in

m_c

05-07-2017, 11:18 AM

Are you using lead free solder?

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 11:26 AM

No think its 60/40 lead but would have to confirm

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 11:28 AM

yep its 60% lead

m_c

05-07-2017, 11:09 PM

The reason I asked, is lead free is a bit harder to work with, and easily results in joins like your photos.

Ideally you should be aiming for having the soldering iron in contact for less than 10 seconds. For heat sensitive components, even shorter than that.
Process should be - clean tip to remove old solder(that's what the wet sponge is for - the flux burns of, so you want any remnants of solder wiped off), apply blob of fresh solder on the tip, hold tip against what you're soldering, as soon as the solder starts to flow onto the leg/PCB, feed in enough to get a good join aiming for the contact point between tip and component, pull solder pulled away, pull soldering iron away.

Having a decent sized soldering helps. Too small and you have to hold it on for too long to get solder to flow, too big and you risk overheating things if you hold it on too long.

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 11:29 PM

ravihotwok

05-07-2017, 11:54 PM

Managed to get a bit more done tonight. I have decided to install limit switches to help prevent damage and to aid homing. I have decided to put 2 each of the x and y axis and one on the z axis. I have soldered 2 small tails to the switches in NC configuration and crimped a small 2 pin plug for future maintenance/removal
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AndyGuid

06-07-2017, 06:15 AM

Enjoying your thread Ravi, thanks.

Clive S

06-07-2017, 07:15 AM

thats very helpful and exactly what I was aiming for as you have echoed what I watched in a tutorial, but remember this is my first time so even though the theory is there putting it into practice is another matter lol. Hopefully ive not cooked anything,

First job was to solder the pins to the board for the motor connections and other plugs which in not sure of lol

Ravi I would re solder (re flow all the motor connections that look and are bad on that board) as they will give you trouble and it si possible that could blow the drives if there is a dry joint. The resistors look a lot better.

All you need to do is put the iron back on them and when the solder starts to flow with the iron still on apply a bit more solder and the flux will do the rest. I know this may be controversial but full lead solder is a lot easier to use.

ravihotwok

06-07-2017, 07:32 AM

ffs!

No problem clive, will take that board out tonight and do as you say to make sure as the last thing I want is parts burning out, will be doing it around 7pm tonight so will do one re solder and post a pic up to see if its satisfactory before I crack on with the rest mate, be handy if you can keep an eye out pal.
I appreciate everyone's input :-)

ravihotwok

06-07-2017, 07:51 AM

Cheers Andy mate

ravihotwok

06-07-2017, 07:28 PM

right im at work doing a bit of skiving watching homeland and messing with this control box, I have re soldered the plug connections as advised, pelase have a look and give me your thoughts, don't think I can do much better if I'm honest
before
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And now after re soldering
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Clive S

06-07-2017, 08:49 PM

Ravi They are better but some are not good. It does take practise I think you said you have leaded solder.

You will have to power it up and see. Remember always apply the solder to the joint (its ok to wet the iron first with solder) It should run and not ball up. What is the wattage of your iron?

ravihotwok

06-07-2017, 10:11 PM

i have balled it up deliberately, once I had allowed plenty to go into the terminal i then gently moved the iron in a circular motion to ensure the solder didnt interfere with the next one. Iron is 30watt matey

EddyCurrent

06-07-2017, 10:50 PM

Too much solder, you should be able to see the shape of the parts after they are soldered.

ravihotwok

10-07-2017, 10:06 AM

Did a bit more on the machine this weekend, my new 600w spindle and pwr supply arrived as well
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I have allso installed the limit switches, 2 on each x and y axis and one on the z axis
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ravihotwok

11-07-2017, 08:40 AM

A common problem with this model of cnc machine is excess play on the z axis, this is caused by a small gap from the top of the screw and the bearing just where it meets the motor. It is only about 1.5mm but is enough to worry you. Using a 3d printed washer I have solved this problem and now there is zero play in the z axis, got the idea from a funny chap off youtube.

Here is the excess play before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9aKQomBV4w&feature=youtu.be

Here is how I solved it:
I started with printing some washers
8mm id 11mm od 2mm thickness
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Now to remove the motor, and then the 2 retaining screws on top of the bearing
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Now slide the printed washer onto the screw
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Now install the bearing again, you must make sure that the bearing is flush with the top of the housing it is seated in, I had to sand about half a mm off to achieve this, once happy tighten the 2 retaining screws and then install the motor.

Here is the result
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBEN9vM_HWg&feature=youtu.be

No play at all and the axis still moves nice and freely. An easy fix to what really should of been sorted at factory.

Hope this helps someone in the future :-)

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 07:49 AM

Been very busy with work so been restricted when I can play with the machine, I have been plodding along in the back ground though. I have no fully re wired the stepper motors to the controller, I have binned the cheap 5 core unscreened power cables for a thicker screened 5 core cable and freshly soldered them to the plugs. These were a complete nightmare to try and fish through the cable track but I got there in the end. Once wired up the motors were making a high pitch noise, also when trying to jog any of the axis they just seemed to move back and fourth which is a tell tale sign of the wrong core pairs being wired up. For anyone interested, my motors are 4 cable motors, which means it has 2 coils with 1 pair of cables per coil. I used the multimetre to find when 2 of the cables were connected a circuit was made, that way I could establish which cables were paired together. The I wired one pair to pins 1 and 2, and the other to 4 and 5 of the 5 pin plug and hey presto it worked well. I have made the length of the cables just shy of 3m for now as im making a full enclosure so thought it is much easier to cut the cables back than to add in AND RE-FISH THROUGH THE CABLE TRACK LOL

Anyway here is a few pics, limit switches are to be done tonight then I can start setting the controller up through the software which I really have no idea how to do but got plenty of literature from Planet CNC to guide me, would like to mention they have been very supportive throughout this build even though I have been bombarding them with daft question constantly.
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Clive S

26-07-2017, 08:24 AM

I have no fully re wired the stepper motors to the controller, I have binned the cheap 5 core unscreened power cables for a thicker screened 5 core cable and freshly soldered them to the plugs.Did you ground the screens at one end?

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 08:26 AM

Nope, Planet said there was no need to?

Clive S

26-07-2017, 08:30 AM

Nope, Planet said there was no need to?

That must be ok then:concern: The vast majority on here would disagree I think.

Gary

26-07-2017, 08:53 AM

Screened cable without the screen being grounded is acting like un screened cable. so ground the screen at one end. It may not make a differnce, but if you have screened cable, it makes sence to use it how it is intended to be used.

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 09:03 AM

Thanks Gary, can you advise on how the best way to earth it please? can I earth it to the machine? or to the control box? Any examples?

Cheers

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 09:09 AM

Thanks Gary, can you advise on how the best way to earth it please? can I earth it to the machine? or to the control box? Any examples?

Cheers

Gary

26-07-2017, 10:01 AM

in the control cabinet and to a star point.

and make sure the cabinet is also grounded.

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 10:04 AM

not too sure what a star point is, how do I connect it to the metal braid screening?

Gary

26-07-2017, 10:07 AM

here is some reading for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system

Clive S

26-07-2017, 10:19 AM

not too sure what a star point is, how do I connect it to the metal braid screening?

This has been talked about many times on here try a search !! Read some of the build logs etc you don't seem to take advise when offered

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 10:39 AM

Advise welcome, instructions even better. Searching is great, but is something can be answered in a simple sentence then that saves a lot of time. Will do a search now and see what I can find.

That wiki link explains a lot. Except the best way to go about physically achieving it.

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 10:54 AM

I now understand what a star point is. Can I splice into each of the motor cables just to expose the outer metal braid, then solder/heatshrink a cable to it which can then me linked to a star point in the box?

Gary

26-07-2017, 11:00 AM

the screen is just metal that picks up the noise and passes this noise back to ground as current, so as long as you have a good connection to ground that is all you need. so use your initiative and solder a wire onto the screen and connect it to gnd.
how you do it is up to you and depends on how messy you can accept.

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 11:04 AM

Great Gary, I understand that. Im pretty sure I can do that nice and neat and finish off with a bit of heatshrink to keep it all covered up.

Lee Roberts

26-07-2017, 11:09 AM

Ravi, like this:

Just solder Separate wire to shield, fold back and put shrink wrap over then run wire back to Ground point.

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Basically you are building a path for any electrical noise that may target your cable and give problems, so it can leave the system.

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 11:14 AM

Awesome lee, instead of doing it like that I will do it a bit further back as ive got plugs on the end of my cable which connect into the planet control box. But I will put a earth point where the plugs go into the box, so there will only be a short length from the motor cable to the box for earth, should look reasonably neat. Thanks chaps for explaining in laymans terms, helped a lot. Will crack on later tonight and report back with some more pics

AndyGuid

26-07-2017, 11:49 AM

G'Day Ravi, as one layman to another, I know it can be tricky getting succinct info on this subject.
Here are a number of references that I have kept on this subject, that I hope may be of some help.
I'm enjoying your thread, keep up the good work!
Andy

Grounding and Earthing

Electric current through a wire creates a magnetic field around it. Current flowing in opposite direction creates an equal and opposite field. Keep the wires close, ideally twisted together, and the magnetic fields cancel out, don't transmit interference, and are resistant to outside magnetic fields for the same reason (rather simplified but the principle is true). Pass wires through separate holes and not only do you lose that "cancellation" effect because the wires are further apart, but you now create a magnetic field between the two wires that can induce (= create) a current in the metal box between them, which is exactly what you don't want to do. I can bang on about differential signalling and common-mode rejection, but the simple model is pretty sound to understand what's happening.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/5036-Earthing?p=87665#post87665

Grounding and Earthing often creates a lot of confusion and to some extent depends how old you are. But you don't connect your DC ground to the Star point which is the point where all the screens connect to and then that is connected to the AC earth. The reason for the Star point is to get rid of earth loops (or ground loops if you are old).

Sometimes you have more than one DC power source and again sometimes you have to connect the various DC power -ve together. Hope this helps a bit.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7662-DIY-CNC-Milling-Machine-From-Scratch?p=83631#post83631

But in electrical engineering context words Ground and Earth differ in scope.
Ground is a general term that refers to a reference potential against which all voltages are measured.
Earth is same as ground but used in context of power systems because the ground here is implemented by burying copper conductors deep down into Earth.*

Since Earth has minerals, moisture and it has practically infinite volume, the current flow is only limited by contact resistance between ground/earth conductor and soil. Because of this, on the distribution side, the neutral is connected to earth. On receiving side, fault current from one of the phases can flow into the local earth conductor and make its way to the neutral at distribution side. Apart from being a sink for fault current, the Earth conductor also serves as a return path for instrumentation systems.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7662-DIY-CNC-Milling-Machine-From-Scratch?p=83653#post83653

different disciplines treat the words different such as in electronics PC boards often have a ground plane that is not connected to earth but to DC ground or signal ground in this case ground is not earth.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7662-DIY-CNC-Milling-Machine-From-Scratch?p=83653#post83653

don't forget the chassis ground, signal ground, RF ground - there are loads of grounds but they do not have to be connected to earth :)
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7662-DIY-CNC-Milling-Machine-From-Scratch?p=83653#post83653

Grounding is a whole subject in itself! In simple terms, the issue is that wires and connections aren't perfect, and don't have zero resistance. Hence although you might connect things together to form a common ground, there are always tiny differences in voltage across them. This is especially the case when large currents are involved, of if there are multiple paths between the grounded items. And since ground is your reference for everything, then this can cause issues in operation.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10456-Help-with-Problem-X-axis-Stepper-Please?p=88433#post88433

ravihotwok

26-07-2017, 12:00 PM

Thanks very much Andy, very very helpful, Ive got the limit switches to try and sort tonight as well, im trying to run them as far away from the power cables as poss, but in some areas they will be very close especially the limit and power cables on the z-axis. Will have to see how I get on. Buying some MDF this weekend to make a sturdy table top and enclosure with a blow/extraction system, once thats done i can route the cables properly, when the cables come in close contact with each other I will try and think of some sort of extra shielding to help reduce interference (if thats the correct word).
Cheers for the positive comments :-) Helps keep my chin up with the build.

Neale

26-07-2017, 04:22 PM

It's not a recommendation, but this works for me:

From the top, spindle power (screened CY) runs in the same cable guide as the Z limit proximity switch (unscreened 3-core) and Z stepper power (screened CY). Next level down they are joined by Y motor power and Y limit/home switches. These run together in about 2m of cable guide before splitting to go to various places (junction boxes, sockets on control box). Where screened cable is used, screens eventually go to star point in control box but screens are only connected at one end. Each cable guide also contains an earth wire which connects to the metalwork at each end of the cable guide to make sure that there is a reliable earth connection right from the spindle to the control box so I never rely on electrical connections via the linear bearings. As much as anything, this is to make sure that the touchplate connection is reliable.

I have had a couple of problems with the proximity switches but these are switch issues which I have been able to fix (and possibly due to using some of the cheapest switches available on eBay) and I have had absolutely no noise issues whatsoever from day one. Maybe it's luck although apart from ignoring advice to run power and switch cables separately, I have generally followed good wiring practice. I do also use 24V for the proximity switches (which my motion controller is happy to accept) and that also helps noise issues.

A_Camera

27-07-2017, 12:55 PM

Well I managed to have a good session on the control box tonight and my first ever stab at soldering, its a lot harder than it looks.
First job was to solder the pins to the board for the motor connections and other plugs which in not sure of lol
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Sorry, but all the soldering joints you made looks like really bad work. I would redo this. Get a solder sucker like this...

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...remove every large clump, make sure your soldering iron is not too large but is designed for the purpose and that the solder wire is thin enough, quickly melting and floating well on the surface. The surface must be clean and the tip of the soldering iron must be kept clean using the wet sponge. I clean it after each and every soldering point.

Here are a few do:s and don't:s:

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You need to practice on something which is not going to be used, not something which you need later on for reliable operations. Get a magnifier and check/fix every point. You will get a lot of headache later on if you box this and start using. Even if it works now, it may fail at any time.

ravihotwok

27-07-2017, 02:03 PM

ravihotwok

27-07-2017, 02:08 PM

solder sucker bought and arriving monday

A_Camera

27-07-2017, 04:37 PM

Thanks mate, why are they bad? in the link you sent me it stated when the older balls at the top of the connection and doesnt make contact with the metal ring on the board it is bad, but the ones I have done which are balls but they are making perfect contact with the board rings? I will revist this though just want it clarifying so I fully understand mate

I can't spend time marking every point, but like I said, get a good magnifying glass and have a look at each one of them. Unless they are not looking like the one marked A in that picture I posted above, you have to redo it. Most of the ones I have seen in your pictures (not only in the one I linked to) are bad. If you have a ball it means the solder wire did not melt and floated out, or there was dirt on the surface or the iron or you did not heat up the wire you solder AND the surface you solder it to and so on... Just google "how to solder (https://www.google.se/search?q=how+to+solder&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Ygh6WZaTBJSr8we06pmIDw)" and you will find millions of answers regarding soldering with pictures and Youtube video, so I will not go into more details.

A_Camera

27-07-2017, 04:38 PM

solder sucker bought and arriving monday

Very good. Make good use of it, buy a few spare tip and filters also.

Lee Roberts

27-07-2017, 04:55 PM

Ravi,

Just a couple of notes:

1. There is to much solder on each one
2. Get yourself some soldering flux, liquid preferable

The flux and soldering go hand in hand, when the solder "flows" better (you'll see the diffrence) because of the flux, it just works and you'll see what I mean about there being to much on each joint.

Flux isn't cheap depending on what you get, however if you get liquid flux you simply apply a very small amount, so it last's a long time.

If you keep application to a minimum you wont need to do a lot of clean up, in fact look for no-clean flux, I like to use isopropanol alcohol to clean any soldering/pcb jobs I do.

Links below for what I use, just dip your tip in the Kalafonia tin before each pass.

ALCOHOL BASED SOLDERING LIQUID FLUX SMD/RMA REWORK, REFLOW, REBALL, NO CLEAN (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121054733532)

COLOPHONY/KALAFONIA Limited offer 40g for the price 20g tin Solid soldering flux (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121041198430)

IPA 100% | 1 LITRE | Lab/Pharma. Grade | Isopropyl Alcohol/Isopropanol (99%) 1L (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141522873981)

Look forward to seeing the rework :)

ravihotwok

27-07-2017, 06:55 PM

sakes lads ive just bought some flux but its hard stuff, will up load a pic in a mo. Im going to spend sat afternoon redoing these solders, thanks for explaining it in detail, I thought it balled due to me putting enough into the area and the solder had no where else to go so created the ball. Now I know this isnt the case and can revisit it with the knowledge of what im trying to achieve.

On another note, I want to buy new steppers a mine appear to be proper crap. Any recommendations for 3 motors that will fit my machine? budget of £120 for all 3?

Lee Roberts

27-07-2017, 07:58 PM

sakes lads ive just bought some flux but its hard stuff, will up load a pic in a mo.

Ok, well the better value option to what I linked would be to buy some solid Rosin like this eBay - Rosin Resin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290784366540) and mix it with the Isopropyl I linked to above, brake the rosin up and add to the Iso untill your happy with the viscosity.

Here is a video on that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv_2ULCmA28

Don't know what flux you've got but i'm sure you can change its viscosity, again the Isopropyl is what you want but nail varnish remover is made from Acetone and Isopropyl is what you get from the Hydrogenation of Acetone, if you've got some nail varnish remover you could try mixing some with the flux you have already, keep in mind though that they put perfumes and other softeners in nail varnish remover so it wouldn't be the purest of fluxes.

I would just order some Isopropyl, its so handy for other things, Hexa the company I linked don't mess about so it should be with you sharpish.

On another note, I want to buy new steppers a mine appear to be proper crap. Any recommendations for 3 motors that will fit my machine? budget of £120 for all 3?

CNC4YOU is still the best place both on price and service, the motors are of the lowest inductance we can find vs other things, link below.

Link: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema23-3.1Nm/Stepper-Motor-3.1Nm-x-3-60BYGH301B-Nema23

m_c

27-07-2017, 09:26 PM

A_Camera

27-07-2017, 09:45 PM

If you're soldering new components, the flux in common solder should be more than enough to ensure a good solder joint. Any common solder you buy for electronics should be flux cored.

It must be over 10 years since I last used separate flux, and that was dealing with vehicle earth points that had been exposed to a couple British winters. I've certainly never used it on any PCB I've soldered.

I have been working with electronics since the mid 70's and as long as I remember, there have ALWAYS been flux in the solder wires I used. I never bought any separate flux ever in my life. As far as I know, flux in liquid or hard form is only used for soldering pipes and other very large surfaces, not PCB.

Lee Roberts

28-07-2017, 04:36 PM

So far the only advice he's had is to get a solder sucker and start again, clearly there is more going on than that and he needs more experienced input, let's give him that instead shall we.

Flux cored or not something isn't right and it's probably a combination of things, additional Flux I think will help Ravi along in getting better joints, additional flux has been used in the SMD and rework/reflow arena's for years and for a very good reason!

What solder wire are you using?

Ravi, using additional flux cannot hinder the soldering process and can only assist you in doing a nice/better job, don't tell anyone this but that is the reason they put it in solder wire in the first place :).

Your soldering iron needs to be hot enough, balling up like that can come from the iron being too hot or cold, I'm betting yours is to cold, some lower end irons heat up but they don't do very well at staying hot once you start using them, this happens with low power irons too at around the 25w range, when you are trying to solder bigger components.

However my go to for most jobs is now a 12w Weller SP12 (http://www.weller-toolsus.com/weller-sp12-iron-mini-sp12.html), I inherited it along with technique from my grandfather who was a British telecom engineer, the iron is from around the 80-90's and still has the original tip, it along with a combination of technique, additional flux and a solder wire appropriately sized gets everything I solder just right for me - every time...Thanks Granddad!

40-60w is an average range on what allot of irons will be rated at, my other iron is a 25w similar to the Weller, I also have two gas soldering irons for mobile work. The bigger of the gas irons is handy with the tip removed as its basically a mini blow torch and works excellent on heat shrink and those jobs where you need a small flame with a bit more power.

What iron are you using ?

The tip of your iron needs to be "on point" Ravi, the problem comes from oxidation and not keeping your tip clean, once your tip becomes oxidized the solder will no longer want to flow or stick to it properly and this is a problem. Don't clean your tip in flux or water, this shocks the tip and damages the Iron and Chromium plating, just dip the tip in some pure Rosin after each joint and that should be good enough for the tips life time.

Solder to the tip of your iron and then to the area/joint to be soldered, your transferring the solder from one to the other, try and do this with as minimal amount of heat going into your component as you can and your now doing it correctly.

Soldering isn't rocket science Ravi, there are lots of options in terms of tools and technique but a few fundamentals need to be right for it to be successful, if left those balls of solder you've done so far could come lose and as such cause arcing, arcing not only damages components and equipment but it can cause fires too !!!!

Lee Roberts

28-07-2017, 05:21 PM

A_Camera

29-07-2017, 02:00 PM

So far the only advice he's had is to get a solder sucker and start again
Well, that's not very fair, is it? Did you not read post #53 and #56? That's all there is to it. Like you say, soldering is not rocket science, but needs some practice. He was given a google link but I did not pick any specific video, I think he should do that selection on his own.

My iron is a 24v 50W Weller from 1978. It still works well. Of course, it does not have the fancy temperature regulator and display, but I never really felt any need for that.

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I have used up several tips and also have different type, depending on the purpose, I change when necessary. I would not use a high voltage type of iron, which the 12W you have been given is, on any electronics, but I know many people use tools which are not suitable. Anyway, while it may have a nostalgic value for you, I personally would only keep it as a memory.

Regarding flux, I stand by what I have said. It is waste of money. On electronics one should not use any other type of soldering wire than the one with flux in the core of the wire. As a matter of fact, too much flux can also cause problems, so it is not true that using flux can not hurt. Flux fluid is used only in industrial soldering, where the PCB is travelling through a flux foam first and then through the melted soldering wave.

https://youtu.be/VWH58QrprVc

Manual soldering of electronics don't need any flux foam or liquid.

My experience is that if there are balls then it is enough to heat them well up, until completely melted and either suck it up or in many case it will float out because there is normally enough flux around the points. If if does not float out and look like figure A in the picture I provided then there is nothing else to do than suck it out and apply new solder.

Takes a 15 minutes to half an hour practising and that's it. Really very simple.

Clive S

29-07-2017, 03:21 PM

Lee Roberts

29-07-2017, 06:29 PM

Well, that's not very fair, is it? Did you not read post #53 and #56? That's all there is to it. Like you say, soldering is not rocket science, but needs some practice. He was given a google link but I did not pick any specific video, I think he should do that selection on his own.

You are correct, I owe you and anyone I have offended an apology, I did read post #53 but I unintentionally skipped over the paragraph that starts with "...remove every large clump" as I was more attracted to the do's and don'ts picture. I also totally missed post #56 entirely.

I'm very sorry to you and anyone else I offended, at the time I felt it was a fair comment to make however I was wrong so I'm sorry about.

Anyway, while it may have a nostalgic value for you, I personally would only keep it as a memory.

I understand.

Regarding flux, I stand by what I have said. It is waste of money. On electronics one should not use any other type of soldering wire than the one with flux in the core of the wire. As a matter of fact, too much flux can also cause problems, so it is not true that using flux can not hurt. Flux fluid is used only in industrial soldering, where the PCB is travelling through a flux foam first and then through the melted soldering wave.

Ok well now you've got your wires crossed because flux is not a waste of money at all, it helps and there is no questioning that. It is used extensively in the repair/rework arena by many and my own real life experience is that it does help with non SMD soldering too, especially when you're dealing with old pcb's. If you've got it handy there is no reason not to use it in my opinion and that is how I solder.

I stand by what I said and think it will help Ravi along with his soldering.

Manual soldering of electronics don't need any flux foam or liquid.

My experience is that if there are balls then it is enough to heat them well up, until completely melted and either suck it up or in many case it will float out because there is normally enough flux around the points. If if does not float out and look like figure A in the picture I provided then there is nothing else to do than suck it out and apply new solder.

No one said it did, however they put it in the solder core for a reason. Exactly, in your experience...

Camera, I'm just offering Ravi what I can from my own understanding and experience, earned from actually doing it and experimenting myself. I do not proclaim to be some kind of authority on soldering.

My second post with the video was somewhat meant in jest, I thought that would be apparent when I said "the astute of you will identify", sorry if that post offended you or prompted you to feel the need to explain your own authority/experience, again that wasn't my intention at all, it was just a light hearted joke that also covered the "why use flux" for anyone who wanted it.

Here is a link to Louis Rossmann's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos), he is one of many that use flux every day, day in day out to get their work done.

His video's will demonstrate what I am trying to explain regarding using flux or not and will have the last word on my behalf, you the reader can decided if or not you would like to try some additional flux in your soldering diet.

Lee you have not read this post from the beginning I feel. The questions you have asked have all been answered.

Ok thanks I will have another look, will probably leave adding anything else so Ravi can get his build log back on track.

Thanks and sorry to all :dejection:

A_Camera

29-07-2017, 06:32 PM

Here is a video, the most relevant section about Flux starts at 7 minutes in, the astute of you will identify the difference in working with fresh unoxidized surfaces vs. oxidized surfaces such as those in the job Ravi is undertaking and the correlation in my recommendation of using flux.

I know very well what flux does and when to use it. In fact, the very same demonstration is done in your video, just like I am saying in post #56.

https://youtu.be/vIT4ra6Mo0s?t=8m1s

He is soldering large surface, so of course use of flux is a good idea. He is soldering to a copper plate with a blow torch from beneath, not a PCB, and what he does is the same as soldering pipes. So of course, use of liquid flux is a good idea, as it is demonstrated at the 7 and 8 minute marks. When soldering PCB manually flux is unnecessary because the solder wire already has enough. More important is HOW to solder and which tools are used. If the tip is too large or too small, or the temperature is too low, or the solder is applied to the tip and brought to the surface and so on...

Quite the opposite to you, if I make a PCB and see that it has a lot of oxide, or old flux or anything greasy on it I use PRF 6-68 to REMOVE flux, oxide and almost any other dirt, and that makes soldering really easy. I also use the same if I buy electronics from eBay and see that the PCB is badly cleaned or not cleaned at all, and is full of sticky flux. I routinely clean all my PCBs after manually soldering because there is always just too much flux rest after manually soldering PCB.

ravihotwok

31-07-2017, 02:30 PM

Well I have redone the soldering, and im pretty happy with it. Its still balled up a little but the prongs stick out through the board a fair bit so didnt really have a choice as I wanted the whole of the prong covered in solder, they are very round and meet the metal contact on the board pretty much perfectly, plent of solder also flowed into the connection to begin with :-)
Before
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After

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ravihotwok

31-07-2017, 02:36 PM

singed the board coating a little but the solder had made a solid connection and like I say plent of solder has flowed into the conection

ravihotwok

31-07-2017, 02:54 PM

After you all explained what a star was in the box it was obvious where it was when I opened it up. I have drilled a small hole near the motor connections and linked a bolt to the star so I can attached the earthed wires from the motor cable screens to it

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ravihotwok

31-07-2017, 02:58 PM

also popped to my best mates workshop, he has a few little toys ;-)

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Lee Roberts

31-07-2017, 03:07 PM

singed the board coating a little but the solder had made a solid connection and like I say plent of solder has flowed into the conection

Yep looks much better, you can see now how they resemble the other original joints more, nice job.

also popped to my best mates workshop, he has a few little toys ;-)

:) Mates with benefits a :semi-twins:, your plan for the control box and the earthing looks to be ok.

ravihotwok

31-07-2017, 03:35 PM

thanks very much lee, still a bit iffy but the main thing is I now know the theory behind it.

Yeah my mate does a lot of contracting to a few aerospace firms and has helped me out a fair bit with advice, nearly pissed himself when I showed him my 4 axis machine lol

ravihotwok

02-08-2017, 10:11 AM

Work has been crazy busy at the moment so only been able to do a little bit on the build. I have started to create an enclosure for the machine, this will consist of a sealed unit with 2 led strip light running at the top of the enclosure front to back each side. One side of the enclosure will be perspex and and front will be a hinged perspex door. There will be an extraction system installed on the side opposite the perspex. Its a very make-shift idea but it will serve a purpose I think and help keep the area as clean as possible.

I have replaced all the wood on the workbench from cheap thin mdf to 12mm thick ply wood for stability, weight and strength.

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Now I have added a few coats of paint to the inside of the enclosure to aid lighting

ravihotwok

02-08-2017, 10:12 AM

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And here is the side perspex screen installed
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ravihotwok

02-08-2017, 10:16 AM

One other issue I have is that I now have a additional power supply/controller for my 600w spindle which wont fit within my planet control box. I have decided to fabricate another box lid which will fit and attach to the top of the existing planet box. Here is the grp mould I have made so far to achieve this
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Nothing really that interesting and still haven't registered the license correctly since changing from the crap control box to the new one so hopefully I will be able to sort this at the weekend and make some progress on finishing the wiring. All in all enjoying the small amounts of time I spend on this so far which is great. More to come :-)

Desertboy

02-08-2017, 11:15 AM

Have you had it cutting yet?

ravihotwok

02-08-2017, 11:29 AM

christ no lol

waiting on some more cable track to feed the limit switch cables through, also need to solder the earths onto the motor cables, trying to run the cables as separate as possible hence the additional cable track, once the enclosure is finished I can work out the exact length of the cable so they are as short as possible.

Im not too keen on firing the machine up when its half way through installation as I know I will start making loads of stuff and just make a mess everywhere lol

ravihotwok

03-08-2017, 08:00 AM

Spent a few mins last night installing the new LED strip lights inside the enclosure, just need to sort a switch out then they will be fully functional.

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ravihotwok

17-08-2017, 02:02 PM

Managed to find a quick hour to do a bit on the machine with not the best results :-(.

Anyway I have wired up the limit switches and installed a second cable track on the opposite side to the motor cables to try and keep them separate. I have also drilled and tapped some holes to help clip the cables nice and neat

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ravihotwok

17-08-2017, 02:05 PM

I labelled each of the limit switch cables only to find I did the wrong lol, only need one cable per axis (2 switches)

Plugged it all in but its still not working correctly, motors seem to stop intermittently and something up with the y limit plug socket in the box.

I have not done anything to the settings apart from set the units per step which seem to be working now (when the motors don't stop)

I have sent an email to planet cnc and will do some more investigating tonight. Very frustrating as its starting to look really neat, just got to make sure the hardware has been assembled correctly

All a learning curve , be it a VERY frustrating one lol

Cheers

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 07:21 AM

Right chaps, had a bit more time to play with the machine and iron out some faults, it appears my motors seem to stop working off their own accord, if you jog it one way then it move fine until it meets a slight bit of resistance, then it just stop's, but makes a horrible noise and tries to move each way slightly. My motors are anchuan 57hd0401-15sb. Im hoping that this is due to the severe lack of torque? My theory was to buy a new set of motors anyway with my installing the larger spindle, so I may purchase just one new motor to clarify that the low torque is the problem. Anyone had any experince with this type of problem?

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 07:27 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUiAyduROk

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 07:37 AM

You would have thought even craptastically weak motors could move an unloaded x axis back and forth.

Seems likely to me that you may have some binding going on. Does it happen on all axis?

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 07:56 AM

Morning Zee,
yes it does mate. I took the motor off the axes and it spins freely, but if you apply your finger to the output shaft it causes it to go mental

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 07:58 AM

I spotted on another site about the motors something about these being 110v?

will try and find out

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:01 AM

That's a bit disappointingly poor! even a little cheap nema 17 on my 3d printer driven from an onboard driver won't do that.

you may need to look at upgrading drivers as well/instead of motors... seems like they aren't giving the motor much juice if they stall that easily.

do you know what drivers you have in there at the mo?

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:03 AM

I spotted on another site about the motors something about these being 110v?

will try and find out

the motors won't be 110v, if anything they'll be talking about the psu input. most switching psu i've seen these days are 110/220v but some do require you to move a jumper.

one assumes if yours was set to 110v it would have gone pop already on 220v.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:09 AM

this is what I have mate

https://planet-cnc.com/product/mk34-controller-enclosure-accessories/

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:11 AM

looks like these are the drivers https://planet-cnc.com/product/motordriver-2-5a-32/

says current selectable.... i would say there is a good chance the current is set too low.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:14 AM

hmm, sounds interesting mate. Is this a variable that is changed via the software or manually on the control board?

Cheers

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:15 AM

i would guess a jumper or pot on the board.

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:18 AM

looking at the pics, you have a little dip switch to choose the micro stepping setting, so chances are the red jumper is your amperage setting.

edit - infact I think i can make out "Imax" next to the jumper in one pic, so thats almost certainly the puppy. Check what it is set to.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:27 AM

I will go and have a look at my pics now matey

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:28 AM

Looks like your motors are 2.0A from a quick google (you may want to verify that yourself) so thats the setting you'd want on the drivers

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:30 AM

right I understand exactly what you mean, the 4 little boards are the drivers, and there is a jumper on the 2 pins the other side to the 2 pins labelled imax

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:33 AM

I have looked at the pics of my install and the jumper is on the same 2 pins as in the advert on the site ie opposite to imax. Should I put the jumper onto the imax pins?

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 08:35 AM

yeah those are your drivers, what you referred to in an earlier post as your new driver board is actually your motion control board.

Again, only working from educated guesses given the blurry pics on their website an no instructions, but you have two variables you can set on those drivers. micro stepping and amps. the micro stepping looks like it is set by the small dip switch, which leaves the red jumper for amps. one assumes the different jumper positions correspond to 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and 2.5 amps... if that is a correct assumption then you'd want the second from last pins if your motors are indeed 2.0A

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:51 AM

You have explained a hell of a lot this morning mate, in very easy terms. I really appreciate that mate, hopefully this will solve the problem but even if it doesnt I have just gained a lot of useful knowledge in regards to my box. In other news I have been in constant contact with planet regarding my issues, I have now begun to learn how to add shortcuts into the planet software, the jogging buttons on the front of the box itself now work which is a nice little touch, managed to get one limit switch working on the z axis but the others are wired wrong. Bit worried about the y axis though as when I plugged the z axis into it nothing at all happens, there is a i/o tab on the software which shows when a input is activated, put the z limit switch cable into the x axis and it registers a input but with the y axis nothing at all happens. Need to check my soldering but im pretty sure that is ok now.

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 09:30 AM

your limit switch plugs are 4 pin... I assume that is to allow two switches per axis? sorry to state the obvious but have you definitely wired up to the correct pins in the plug for the Y-axis if that's the only one not working? You could have got the two switches crossed over such that the circuit is never closed and thus you would see no change on the IO.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 09:35 AM

yes mate pretty sure, the x and y axis have 2 switches wired in series (but I had the wires the wrong way around so I know they wont work. But on the z axis I only had 1 switch at the top of the z axis. When you press the switch the input on the software screen lights up. If you un plug it and place it in the x axis the input for the x axis lights up on the screen so I know the plug is working on the box. When I try it in the y axis nothing happens on the software screen which is making me think something is a miss with the box if that makes any sense mate

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 11:02 AM

ah I get you...

I would double check your soldering on the Y-axis input then and also double check however that inputs/outputs board connects to the motion controller is plugged in fully and all required wires are present and correct.

If you have a multimeter you can check for any shorts on the input side, continuity between any of the pins would show that you have a short in there which would present a permanently closed circuit, thus any opening of the circuit by the switch wouldn't have an effect, giving the result you are getting there. Worth a check. You can also check that you have continuity between the board and the motion controller on that line.

As an aside, while nice to have, limit switches certainly aren't a necessity on a machine this small with weak motors like that - it won't have the power to damage itself and you can just start it up in one corner and set soft limits if you like. My first machine never had any limit switches at all, my second machine only had one set for "home" and soft limits for the end stops. Nothing to stop you from using it "as is" while you figure out your limit switch issues.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 11:07 AM

Cheers mate, I was aware of this, but I am also more aware of my lack of experience with these machines so wanted some safety precautions lol I still have a cork on a fork when I eat to prevent accidents lol

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 11:18 AM

Yeah but my point is you are eating with a rubber fork anyway with this machine - it's not going to be powerful or fast enough to cause itself any damage from hitting the stops. The safety is built in by it's lack of guts :thumsup:

Just something to consider if the y-axis proves more difficult to track down than some chasing with a multimeter.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 11:25 AM

yeah totally understand, we have tested it with a multimeter and all seems to be ok I think (but it was my mate who tested it)

I spent a lot on this box so if there is a fault with this box or a internal board I would like to get to the bottom of it, but it is nice to know that it wont self destruct the machine if I do make a mistake when operating it,,,,,,,,,,,,which is inevitable :-)

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 11:31 AM

While it's certainly always possible theres a fault in the hardware, I find 9 times out of 10 it's operator error and I've just done something silly or overlooked something. Do some investigating with a multimeter and you may well find it's shorted or not making it all the way to the motion board input.

I've found a schematic for your driver board - my assumption was correct... you will want to set the jumper to the second from last set of pins to allow it to use 2.0 Amps (has 2A next to the pins). That would explain your motors being so pathetic as they were only getting half an amp. You can also see the dip switch settings to set microstepping which will give you smoother motion. You will need to then adjust steps per unit to match however.

22661

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 12:10 PM

awesome detective work there, I was too busy trying to find a schematic for the whole box. didnt think to look for a schematic for the individual driver (actually forgot they existed)

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 12:34 PM

here is a pic of the soldering I did, the limit switch plugs are on the bottom.
22662
I cant see anything obviously wrong from the picture, to check the back of it would mean removing all the soldering to allow it to separate. Am I correct in understanding that I could program the end socket to act as the y axis input if it works?

Just an idea

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 06:48 PM

Really the easiest way to check for shorts or a break in continuity between points is using a multimeter... anything else is just guessing. If you don't have one, they are fairly cheap and extremely useful when doing anything remotely involving electronics.

Yes it is probably possible in your software to assign whatever switch input to whatever axis, but I have no experience with the planet-cnc stuff I'm afraid.

Neale

23-08-2017, 08:08 PM

The other thing to watch out for when soldering boards like this is the tiny whisker of solder that bridges two connections. Can be difficult to see. Can't tell from the photo, but a scratch between adjacent soldereed pads with a small sharp implement may detect something, if there is anything there.

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:38 PM

right then massive update, followed your advice and the motorrs are running sweet. Back to the y axis limit switch I have also followed your advice and found there is a problem with the board, the pins are connected fine, but there is a break in the signal somewhere. Not sure where though. Think im going to gave to remove all the solders and remove it from the metal plate to have a nose ffs

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 08:59 PM

many thanks neale, after all the grief I got about my soldering skills (or lack of) that was my first port of call but they all look fine. I think I have found the problem. I have tested all the pins against each other and found an inconsistency with limit plug no2. All the other tests on the other plugs behave the same but when I do the same test on the no 2 plug nothing happens. There doesnt seem to be a visible circuitry on the pcb so i am guessing this is enclosed within the pcb somehow? uploading a vid now

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 09:05 PM

here you go chaps, excuse the crappy diagram but just wanted to show the test

https://youtu.be/ZIXuiPqgiY0

ravihotwok

23-08-2017, 09:08 PM

will be sending this info back to planet and hopefully get a new one sent out. This will give me a chance to finalise my wiring and get the earthing sorted. Just really motivated now thanks to you guys, getting the motors to work properly has really cheered me up.

Zeeflyboy

23-08-2017, 11:01 PM

possible when you were removing the solder you pulled up or otherwise damaged the copper trace around the hole... If so you should be able to see the trace in question, just scratch off the surface next to your solder blob and run solder to the trace. Alternatively you could run a small jumper wire or use a pcb repair pen.

ravihotwok

09-09-2017, 04:15 PM

Well bit of an update. I sent rhe pcd back to planet nd they emailed me back the day they received it saying there was a faulty bit of soldering on rhe board which they have rectified and tested. It is now back with me and I have re fitted it. This all took 3 days fir play to them foe sorting it quickly. Anyway I have been stripping the old control box to now house the stuff for the spindle motor

ravihotwok

10-09-2017, 09:27 AM

Here is the old box, I stripped it and sprayed it the same as the new control box as I want to mount the 2 together.
22767

Now I mounted the power supply thing and bolted it now, I spaced it about 5mm up off the deck to help air flow, not sure if it is needed but though as there are vents on the underside it would make sense.
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ravihotwok

10-09-2017, 09:30 AM

Now I have to find a place to fit the small pcb which has the speed control dial plugged into it
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Is it ok to mount this box directly ontop of my new box so it is nice and neat? I think the power will go from one box to another so it would be much neater if the cables were kept internal hence linking the boxes?

ravihotwok

03-10-2017, 09:18 AM

Well another update,

I have rewired the limit switches correctly as I did it wrong the first time, I have also added ground wires to the shielding on the motor wires to connect to the star on the box I made. With the new diy motor power box I have made that is not fitted to the top of the planet box and I have begun wiring it into the planet cnc controller, just waiting on some confirmation off Planet CNC that I have wired it in correctly. I have soldered and heatshrunk the wires. Also installed a e-stop2293422935229362293722938229392294022941229422 2943229442294522946229472294822949 button but need to work out how the hell that gets wired in lol. One job at a time

KeithElcomb

03-10-2017, 10:11 AM

Thanks mate, why are they bad? in the link you sent me it stated when the older balls at the top of the connection and doesnt make contact with the metal ring on the board it is bad, but the ones I have done which are balls but they are making perfect contact with the board rings? I will revist this though just want it clarifying so I fully understand mate

If I may just put a comment in here about your soldered joints. I speak from the position of running an electronics manufacturing company for 30 years.

The pads on the PCB are not ideal. Large tph (I assume through plated) holes and very small pad areas. Be careful not to overheat and pull a pad clean off the circuit board. Can be repaired but messy.

Make sure you get heat both into the component and the pad simultaneously. It would help to use a flux pen on those pads first. Here we use temperature controlled and adjustable soldering iron. Not cheap if you go for a Weller solder station, but some of the Chinese offerings are quite good.

Try to remember, you are not just 'sticking' the solder to the components or pads. You are trying to achieve a metal to metal bond. Sort of low temperature welding if you like. Cleanliness and enough heat are the key requirements, with flux and a lead based solder. Naughty, but nice.

ravihotwok

03-10-2017, 10:17 AM

Cheers Kieth,

which pads are you referring too

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 09:31 AM

Right chaps I need some help. I have Wired the spindle control board up to my planet cnc enclosure box as instructed by Planet themselves. However I am having difficulty in getting advice on how to get power to the spindle power pack.

Here is what I have done so far:

I have removed the potentiometer, capped off one wire and wired the 0-5v and gnd to the pin6 and gnd on the planet board. I have soldered the wires and heat shrunk them
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ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 09:34 AM

I just dont know how to supply power from the enclosure box to the large silver power pack which is mounted on top for the spindle.

It has these connections on it:
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AlexDoran

09-10-2017, 12:44 PM

Hi there, could you explain a bit more what you mean when you say power pack on top for the spindle?

The photo you have there is a typical Chinese power supply, it will need to be wired to 230v AC - Mains.

Alex

A_Camera

09-10-2017, 12:58 PM

I just dont know how to supply power from the enclosure box to the large silver power pack which is mounted on top for the spindle.

It has these connections on it:
22983

I don't understand the question. You connect the mains to the L and N, the Earth to the one beside N and the spindle to the + (normally red wire) and the - (normally black or blue wire). If you have a regulator to adjust RPM then you connect that in between the power supply + and - and the motor + and - terminals. The PWM module should have some kind of documentation describing this, or printed on the PC board there should be clear markings.

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 01:32 PM

hi mate, basically I have wired the small pcb that came with the spindle to the controller from planet cnc. However I dont know how to supply power to the silver power pack which is for the spindle. Been trying to get documentation for the spindle stuff but the ebay seller is not playing ball at the mo

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 01:36 PM

hello alex,
sorry didnt see your reply, yes thats the box im trying to supply power to, but not sure how to tap of the power going to the controller box

AlexDoran

09-10-2017, 03:08 PM

hello alex,
sorry didnt see your reply, yes thats the box im trying to supply power to, but not sure how to tap of the power going to the controller box

Hi Ravi,

You need to connect that Power Supply you have to 230v AC - Mains Voltage.

Looking at the PSU you have the far right three terminals: Earth, Live, Neutral.

Get a common Kettle Plug (For a PC or a PC Monitor etc), cut end off and use it to power the PSU.

USUALLY - in a typical plug it is as follows:

Blue - Neutral
Brown - Live
Green / Yellow - Earth

If you want to be neat about it then you can get one of these: Click Me (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IEC-Fused-and-Switched-Chassis-Inlet-Panel-Mounting-UK-Stock-IEC-Socket-/111698043105?hash=item1a01b8e0e1:g:Ik8AAOSwjVVVgsu i)

That will you mean you can just plug it in and have it modular.

Once you have the PSU live, you just need to (I assume - I do not know what you have been supplied to control the spindle), power the PCB using 48v DC from the PSU using any of the remaining terminals. You have 3 sets of -V & +V on the left hand side of the PSU.

Alex

Desertboy

09-10-2017, 03:13 PM

I'm really tired today just travelled 1500 miles but looking at it Earth, live & neutral to the mains and you have 3 positive rails and 3 negative rails for the DC out.

e2a alex beat me to it with a better explanation lol do what he said.

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 03:29 PM

Thank you very much lads for the help, so on the back of the bottom enclosure box I have 3 pins which a kettle like cable plug into:
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This currently is plugged into the power supply box for my controller, can I just taop into these 3 pins and then wire some more wires to the spindle controller l, n and gnd?

AlexDoran

09-10-2017, 04:06 PM

I imagine that would be fine, can't see it drawing more Amps than that plug is designed for.

Alex

Desertboy

09-10-2017, 04:14 PM

Can't see the amp rating for the IEC socket but looks like it should be fine anything over 10amp is in the zone. If it wasn't for some reason you can buy a new higher rated socket very easily on ebay for <£3 but the size of those pins I'm sure that's 10amp minimum.

A good place to skank these sockets is old PC power supplies for pikeys like me ;)

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 04:19 PM

Again thank you very much lads, will probably have a go at finishing this wiring tomorrow night and report back :-)

ravihotwok

09-10-2017, 04:23 PM

one last question,

what wires go where from the power supply box to the spindle pcb?

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AlexDoran

09-10-2017, 05:15 PM

What are the two terminals on the left? Power in? If so they will go there from the PSU.

Alex

A_Camera

09-10-2017, 06:10 PM

one last question,

what wires go where from the power supply box to the spindle pcb?

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Did you read my post? Or was it not clear?

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 07:32 AM

Will read again mate, took some more pics as well. 1 min

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 07:54 AM

Ah yes that makes sense except im not sure what wires go from the power pack to the spindle pcb. One main question though, at the moment, the power comes into the planet enclosure from the way via a kettle/pc like plug. It then goes to a switch on the front of the enclosure. It is then wired from the switch to the l, n and gnd of the enclosure power pack. If I link the L, N and gnd from here to the spindle power pack above would these cables handle it do you think or do I need to rewire in a thicker wire?

I have also wired the cable which goes to the spindle itself wrong, I have now connected this to the terminals which are labelled motor - & +.

Here is a few pics:
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ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 08:06 AM

They say motor - &+ so I think I wired these up wrong, think these are supposed to go to the actual spindle?

AlexDoran

10-10-2017, 08:52 AM

They say motor - &+ so I think I wired these up wrong, think these are supposed to go to the actual spindle?

Yes those are supposed to go the spindle, no biggy just swap them to the correct terminals on the PCB.

Do you know what the draw is of the spindle? I would advise against running that new PSU for the spindle through that On / Off switch, i would just power the Spindle PSU direct from the IEC / Kettle Plug, if you want to be able to turn it on & off away from using the wall plug, then get one of those additional IEC / Kettle Plug mounts from ebay like i linked.

You need to wire that PCB to the Spindle PSU, just take 'Power -' on the PCB to a 'V-' terminal on the PSU and the same for 'Power +' to 'V+'.

That should be all you need to do in terms of power.

Cheers

Alex

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 09:31 AM

Hello Alex mate,

here is some info for the spindle:
Brushless Spindle DC Motor:

Working Voltage: 48V DC
Rotation Speed: 12000r/min max
Power: 400W
Torque: 230mN.m
Insulation Resistance: >2Megohm
Dielectric Strength: 400V
Diameter: 52mm
Axis Collet Length: 48mm
Diameter of Axis Collect Holder: 16mm
ER11 Collect: 3.175mm

Power supply (enough power for motor):

Input: AC220V ±10%, 50Hz
Output: DC48V, 10A
Power: 480W

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 09:37 AM

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Am i on the right track at last?

AlexDoran

10-10-2017, 10:14 AM

Yeah based on the info you gave there i probably would not wire that PSU through those small wires & switch.

Yeah your drawing looks good that is how it should be wired.

Cheers

Alex

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 10:21 AM

Thanks very much mate, I bet everyone is banging there heads against their screens with my lack of knowledge lol

AlexDoran

10-10-2017, 10:48 AM

Not at all mate, the thing is with electronics, is if you just guess and turn it all on you quickly realise that all you have to show for your work is a bit of smoke and a new shopping list of parts haha

Alex

ravihotwok

10-10-2017, 10:51 AM

I totally agree, once i have done this wiring do you think im better leaving the spindle unplugged at the motor just while I make sure the software is communicating etc?

ravihotwok

05-06-2018, 07:35 PM

Doddy

06-06-2018, 07:40 AM

right its been a long while since i last updated this, I sent the control box back to planet CNC as it was faulty, I received it back pretty quickly a good while ago but have yet to plug it all in.......until tonight. Well the results were a bit disappointing,and now the motors will only move one way. I have sent another email to planet but even though im about £600 down on this control box I think I may need to buy another one which is wider used. Can anyone offer any advice as to if I should persevere with this box of just cut my losses and move on?

Too early to call. But I'm a big fan of fixing, rather than replacing random bits.

You say "the motors will only move one way" - you're referring to the axis stepper motors? (the last part of this thread was discussing the spindle motor, but from the tense of your comment here I think you're talking axis?.

On the assumption you're talking axis...

What's changed?, just the control box? (which eliminates, to some degree) software set-up in Mach3 (assuming this is what you're using). Assuming that it's just the control box then it's unusual to lose all three axis at once. That to me sounds more like a configuration issue than failure (though lets not rule that out!)

How are you testing each axis?, front-panel switches, or from G-Code loaded into Mach3? Have you tried both? If the front-panel - are you saying that, eg, "Left moves left, Right moves left"?, or "Left moves left, Right doesn't move"? - it helps to understand better the nature of the problem.

If following a failure-more: You're now playing a diagnostic game. At least with losing one direction off one or more axis you can do some sensible diagnostics pretty easily (the step/dir interface typical of these boards means that the direction line is somewhat low frequency and easily measurable/set-able). I'd be looking to scope the dir signal with the axis being driven alternate directions. If no scope, then DVM, if no DVM then LED & resistor, and so on. You'd be wanting to start at the control board, then move to the stepper drivers. Even a visual inspection might help, though I guess you've done this. The control box looks to be wired with IDC connectors - you might have to knock a diagnostic lead up that breaks-out the DIR line (or allows you to drive it 0/1 without shorting the control box).

For me - not enough info at this time, I appreciate you're probably frustrated - and that's the worst frame of mind to diagnose problems with - at least for me. Try breaking the problem down to succinct points and either understand each of them, or post them here to be critiqued.

There are LED's on the front of the cnc control box but I cannot find anywhere what they mean as one of them is flashing and another is flashing red which obviously means something :-(

From the manual:

2.2.11 Mk3/4 LED indicators
The user is provided with helpful feedback and live ‘status’ information via on-board LED indicators. There are four indicators.
POWER: Lights when the controller is powered.
DATA: Indicates controller functions.
LINK: Indicates controller communication.
STATUS: Blinks to indicate controller function is ‘good’.

Which are flashing?, it sounds like at least one should be.

ravihotwok

06-06-2018, 08:17 AM

well im afraid this is a bit of a humble response. The machine appears to be working fine lol. Im not sure why as im still learning the software but the axis on the screen where coloured red. The ones which were coloured red were the onces which would move correctly. I had a play with the limits (nto exactly sure what im doing) and they went back to normal and not red, this allowed normal travel while jogging.

I have also managed to set the limit switches up so now ever axis will stop just before its normal end of travel.

This is a massive milestone for me!!! Faith has been restored in the machine and control box.

Now all I need to do is learn how to set it up correctly which is way above my head. Been looking online and even the most basic of tutorials seem a bit advanced. Lots of special terminology to take in.

I think the first thing I need to get my head around is homing, which im still a bit in the dark with lol

Main thing is the machine is jogging correctly and when I type for example x10 the spindle moves exactly 10mm, ive tested all axis in all directions and confirmed all is good. Sounds daft but im soooo chuffed to even be able to do that

ravihotwok

07-06-2018, 11:36 AM

well I have a massive update (well for me anyway)

actually got the machine to home to 0,0,0 last night. Doesnt look like much but for me this is a massive deal and big step forward to getting closer to doing some actual machining.

Here is a small vid I sent to my mate, ignore the spazzy commentary lol

https://youtu.be/kuZlWHEAgIM

Clive S

07-06-2018, 11:50 AM

Well the place you have homed to is machine zero. You then jog to the corner of your part then touch off with x,y and Z this then becomes your work offset G54 where your part is actually located on the bed.

AndyGuid

07-06-2018, 12:04 PM

Keep at it Ravi. One small step and all that, for us novices anyway! :-)

ravihotwok

07-06-2018, 12:09 PM

Clive S

07-06-2018, 12:30 PM

Cheers lads,

yeah one step at a time andy mate

cheers clive, I will probably set the machine home to the highest z point and x,y to be the centre of the bed as the parts im going to be making will mostly be fixed down to the tooling plate around the edges, so makes sense to keep the spindle away from part? Or maybe at the rear of the bed in the middle

I think you are misunderstanding the difference between machine zero and work zero. You are correct to have the Z home to the top then all z gcode will be negative. its nice to home the machine so that X & Y movements to the work position are +ve.

The work zero G54 is generally where you set it in CAD. So after you have homed you then move the machine to the Zero in CAD then touch off at that point. Work zero G54 can be anywhere on the table and in a different place every time if you want. The Home position is always in the same place.

ravihotwok

07-06-2018, 01:07 PM

I think you are misunderstanding the difference between machine zero and work zero. You are correct to have the Z home to the top ten all z gcode will be negative. its nice to home the machine so that X & Y movements to the work position are +ve.

The work zero G54 is generally where you set it in CAD. So after you have homed you then move the machine to the Zero in CAD then touch off at that point. Work zero G54 can be anywhere on the table and in a different place every time if you want. The Home position is always in the same place.

Yeah I may be getting confused, I understand that I need to tell the machine a reference datum ie zero for a part once it is jugged into place, but at the end of the program the machine to stop in a position away from where I am undoing the fixings etc if that makes sense.

Clive S

07-06-2018, 04:18 PM

Yeah I may be getting confused, I understand that I need to tell the machine a reference datum ie zero for a part once it is jugged into place, but at the end of the program the machine to stop in a position away from where I am undoing the fixings etc if that makes sense.

You can just jog away after the machine has stopped. Or add the park position with a bit of gcode at the end of your file. Or set it up in the CAM post.

ravihotwok

07-06-2018, 04:23 PM

Out of all that I understood:

just jog away after the machine has stopped

ha ha, still got a lot to learn mate so bare with me pal

ravihotwok

07-06-2018, 07:05 PM

Right chaps, now I have set the limit switches and got the thing to home.

Whats the next thing to set up??

ravihotwok

08-06-2018, 01:22 PM

well had a good play with the software until the early hours of this morning, and then this happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1WulFwlRxE&feature=youtu.be

Zeeflyboy

09-06-2018, 01:52 PM

If that is real CF, be careful of the dust and fibres...

Messes up electronics, gunks up bearings, wears down rails and will do a number on your lungs. Even a vac with HEPA filter can let some through... best option really is to cut it underwater if you can.

ravihotwok

10-06-2018, 10:15 AM

yeah its the real stuff as thats what I make, ive put the machine into an enclosure to contain the dist, making a better enclosure soon with a built in extraction system which should help

Zeeflyboy

10-06-2018, 10:27 AM

I used to do a bit of work with a company designing drones, we started prototyping CF frames in their lab using a vac boot and a hepa filter.

A few months after that, they had a hell of a time figuring out why their pcbs for flight controllers weren’t working as intended. Turns out the little carbon fibres had escaped and were wreaking havoc all over the lab.

They had a top to bottom clean and switched to cutting in a water tray so that the CF is submerged. No problems since.

Worth thinking about if you’re going to be doing a lot of it.

ravihotwok

11-06-2018, 08:12 AM

I will look into that, but im mainly going to be machining resin billets

ravihotwok

11-06-2018, 10:30 AM

Right chaps,

had a bit more time playing with the machine, ive got the motion speed set pretty low, feed rate set at 200. But it seems to be struggling with right angles and sharp points, it seems to add a small radius in these areas even though on the preview on the software there are clear points.

Any ideas?
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Doddy

11-06-2018, 08:50 PM

Google Mach3 Constant Velocity

ravihotwok

11-06-2018, 09:00 PM

Just had a quick read, ive now changed the motor speeds in my planet software from 500 to 200

seems to have sorted it i think, bloody slow now though lol

Doddy

11-06-2018, 09:13 PM

Just had a quick read, ive now changed the motor speeds in my planet software from 500 to 200

seems to have sorted it i think, bloody slow now though lol

Sorry, missed that you was using Planet CNC software. Check this out http://forum.planet-cnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1271 (no promises!)

ravihotwok

11-06-2018, 09:38 PM

managed to speed up the motors to 500, but changed the blend value to 0. Machining fine now, but a bit stop start on curves

ravihotwok

20-06-2018, 09:17 AM

not much of an update but ive begun sourcing parts for the new extraction system and also the new enclosure. Ive tidied up my tool bench and moved it from the back wall against my booth which has free'd up some more space. Also got a big screen dedicated to the cnc stuff
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I have made some small holes for the machine wires to drop neatly through the base of the enclosure so it is nice and neat, will be going to screwfix later to pick up some odds and sods for the extraction system. Im happy with the setup so far :-)

ravihotwok

13-08-2018, 12:53 PM

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ravihotwok

13-08-2018, 12:54 PM

small update with the new setup, extraction system is all done, just sorting the power supply to the rear fans, I bought a transformer but its ac - ac instead of dc so need to get another one then that will be able to power the fans via a variable speed controller. small progress but starting to look the part

AlexDoran

13-08-2018, 01:02 PM

Hi there mate, good progress! Interesting extraction, are you expecting to blow down the duct? Might be more effective to suck through the duct? Anyway assuming your Fans are 12v then something like this will work fine:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-10A-20A-30A-Switch-Power-Supply-Adapter-Transformer-Driver-For-LED-Strip-/253312012944

Cheers

Alex

ravihotwok

13-08-2018, 01:23 PM

Hello Alex,

thanks for the positive comments, I will be using the rear fans to just encourage the dust from the carbon fibre (as thats what I will mostly be machining) towards that duct, that duct is connected to a industrial extractor which is housed underneath the cnc machine, that cupboard underneath has been insulated with carpet to help reduce noise. I currently have a power control box I am making for the spindle, so was installing a transformer within that to keep everything neat, im just going to tap off the 240v incoming supply to the spindle power pack then run that through a transformer then to the fan controller. Will find a pic now

ravihotwok

13-08-2018, 01:25 PM

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here you can see the control power box im making, and also the adjustable fan controller, i bought a transformer this weekend but its ac not dc so buying another one which will hopefully sort it out. This is all a trial and I have no idea how it will perform, even if it doesn't do much the fans have led's on them so its disco time in the enclosure lol

ravihotwok

20-08-2018, 10:17 AM

Well ive finally got my cnc setup to a level I am happy with, had a lot of issues the past week. Firstly the pc fans I got of ebay were very cool with the led's but they were piss poor at moving air so I ended up ripping a few pc's apart to get some much more powerful fans.

To power the fans I got a laptop power pack and started stripping it back, I replaced the kettle plug with wires to be hard wired into the 240 supply to the spindle power pack.
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The output to the fans was controlled via a small toggle switch. I then secured the powerpack with hot glue onto the main power pack. I have got another fan to aid cooling within this box but I was very surprised as to how not hot the box gets so I dont think there is any need for an additional fan, will see how it goes. 24685 I also wired in a controller for the spindle
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