New start

[wallyblackburn]

Okey, Im now in trouble again after mayor brainfreeze :)

Have routed my homeswitches.
I connected them in parallell.
Brown wire = 24v
Blue wire = gnd
Black wire = signal to bob

If I use this config I get 24v when measuring between black and blue.
If one switch gets close to steel they all light up and the voltage goes to 0 between black and blue.

If I use this paralell connection the bob gets supplied with 24v on the output pin?
Should I instead connect it in series ?
Can't get my mind around this :)


Home switches, or limit switches? If all are going to a single input, then limit... What input (although you said output) are you connected to on BOB? E-Stop? Regardless, your BOB is probably looking for 5V, yes? If so, you need to make a voltage divider to take that 24V to ~5V - maybe an 18K/4.7K resistor divider.

OTOH, I don't know squat about your BOB, controller, etc., so maybe I should just zip it...

[Doddy]

If I use this paralell connection the bob gets supplied with 24v on the output pin?
Should I instead connect it in series ?
Can't get my mind around this :)
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Just clarify "the bob gets supplied with 24v on the output pin?" - you mean the input pin, designated for the home switches? If "input" and not "output", then okay, I'm with you...

You cannot (easily) connect proximity switches (NPN by the sound of it) in series - not without ancillary switch-gear. In parallel, with a common input into Mach3, and inverting the input in the set-up (if necessary), this should work fine.

Provided, of course - the bob supports 24V input (most cheapies are 5V, but you can adapt these easily to 24V if necessary with a resistor) - sorry, not read back in the thread to check your bob.

Can you explain more clearly your concern?

[Nr1madman]

Home switches, or limit switches? If all are going to a single input, then limit... What input (although you said output) are you connected to on BOB? E-Stop? Regardless, your BOB is probably looking for 5V, yes? If so, you need to make a voltage divider to take that 24V to ~5V - maybe an 18K/4.7K resistor divider.

OTOH, I don't know squat about your BOB, controller, etc., so maybe I should just zip it...My simple bob handles 24v so thats fine.. you say input and that makes me think I did right :D

Im going to use two inputs for homing (one for x y z and one for a which is slaved )
Limits are for another input.
Probe and e stop makes it full :)
Have to get one more bob!


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[Nr1madman]

Just clarify "the bob gets supplied with 24v on the output pin?" - you mean the input pin, designated for the home switches? If "input" and not "output", then okay, I'm with you...

You cannot (easily) connect proximity switches (NPN by the sound of it) in series - not without ancillary switch-gear. In parallel, with a common input into Mach3, and inverting the input in the set-up (if necessary), this should work fine.

Provided, of course - the bob supports 24V input (most cheapies are 5V, but you can adapt these easily to 24V if necessary with a resistor) - sorry, not read back in the thread to check your bob.

Can you explain more clearly your concern?Thanks for helping!

Well it seems Im confused as usual.
Ment input and that makes it good I think ;)


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[wallyblackburn]

My simple bob handles 24v so thats fine.. you say input and that makes me think I did right :D

Im going to use two inputs for homing (one for x y z and one for a which is slaved )
Limits are for another input.
Probe and e stop makes it full :)
Have to get one more bob!


I think we need to define home and limit. Home is a reference point, limit means "any further and something bad will happen". If you want to home each axis, you'll have to use an input for each axis. Limits can be connected to same input because, if any are tripped it is an error situation and you just want all to stop ASAP. You can then determine what the problem is.

Does that make sense?

Regards,
Wallace

[Nr1madman]

I think we need to define home and limit. Home is a reference point, limit means "any further and something bad will happen". If you want to home each axis, you'll have to use an input for each axis. Limits can be connected to same input because, if any are tripped it is an error situation and you just want all to stop ASAP. You can then determine what the problem is.

Does that make sense?

Regards,
WallaceYes, total sense if you home all axis at the same time. You can actually home one axis at a time and back of the sensor so you can sense the next "home"

When / if I buy another bob and get more inputs I can home all at the same time :)

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[Desertboy]

Yes, total sense if you home all axis at the same time. You can actually home one axis at a time and back of the sensor so you can sense the next "home"

When / if I buy another bob and get more inputs I can home all at the same time :)

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Not sure how you have it setup but you have 5 input pins this is how I am setting mine up. Z and Y1 sharing a pin, then X & Y2 on their own pin which leaves a pin for touch sensor and a pin for estop. Then set it up to home Z first then home X&Y at the same time. This is good for me as the Z is then always at the highest point before it moves the X/Y so clearing any brackets I have strung across the bed.

I have Y1 and Y2 as I have 2 microswitches and 2 motors on the Y axis. So when it homes it can adjust itself square. This was a bitch to do in linuxcnc lol and I have to do it again when I set the Mesa up but shouldn't be so bad the 2nd time.

I'd connect limits to the estop if you have separate ones after all you should never use them unless something has gone wrong but you can also wire all the limits to share the touch setter.

[Nr1madman]

Got my z axis running like a kitten today :D
So movement seems good!
Connected vfd and spindle, starts and runs in the right direction :D
Have connected the relay on the bob and 1-10v on the bob to the vfd.

Now I have to set up the vfd.
Don't look forward to this!!
Have found several "guides" and lots of them contradict each other. Confusion is complete!

Think I will follow this guide...
The VFD parameters

First, reset the VFD to factory settings. You don't know where that thing's been. On the front panel, hit PROG (or PRGM), and then the up and down buttons until you reach*PD013. Hit SET. Change the value to 8 using the up and down buttons. Hit SET again. Now your VFD is reset.
For the next parameters, I've renamed them to make some kind of sense. For setting multi-digit values, use up and down to increase and decrease the value, and the >> key to move one digit to the right.
PD001:*Command source. Set to 0. 0 means you're controlling the spindle via the front panel controls. 1 means you're using controls that you've wired up to the screw terminals. 2 means you're going to control it using RS-485.
PD002:*Speed control source. Set to 1. 0 means you're controlling the speed through the up and down front panel buttons. 1 means you're going to control the speed with either the knob on the front or an external potentiometer. 2 means RS-485.
When PD002 is set to 1, there is also a jumper next to the screw terminals that you have to set. If the jumper is on the right pair, the control is the front panel knob. If the jumper is on the left pair, the control is via an external potentiometer connected to the screw terminals. Make sure the jumper is on the*right-side pair.
By the way, I found setting 0 pretty weird. You only get to see the speed as a frequency, not as RPM.
PD003:*Default frequency. If PD002 was set to 0, this is the frequency the motor will start running at. The frequency is directly related to the speed. Since we set PD002 to 1, we can leave this alone. But you can set it to something like 200 Hz to start at mid-range.
PD004:*Rated frequency: Apparently this is for motors with a fixed frequency. Since the spindle is variable frequency, this setting can be ignored.
PD005*through*PD010*set three points on a voltage/frequency curve. As the motor ramps up to your desired speed, it follows this curve. The manual usefully shows three types of curve: constant torque, low torque, and high torque. I've set mine to the values for the constant torque graph (why not).
I think that if you get a VFD with a spindle, the particular model of VFD comes with different factory settings for these depending on the spindle. Which is nice.
PD005:*High-end frequency: 400 Hz
PD006:*Middle frequency: 2.5 Hz
PD007:*Low-end frequency: 0.5 Hz
PD008:*High-end voltage: 220 V
PD009:*Middle voltage: 15 V
PD010:*Low-end voltage: 8 V
PD011:*Minimum allowed frequency. Set to 120 Hz. Air-cooled spindles are not meant to stay at low speeds, otherwise they overheat. I understand that water-cooled spindles can go as slow as you want.
Leave the next parameters alone, and skip to...
PD070:*Speed control input: Set to 1. This means that the speed will be controlled by an input voltage between 0 and 5V. This is what the front panel knob delivers. 0 means 0-10V. 2 means the control is by an input current between 0 and 20mA. 3 means 4-20mA. 4 is a combination of voltage and current.
PD071:*Speed control responsiveness: Leave at the factory setting of 20.
PD072:*High-end frequency: Set to 400. This sets the frequency represented by the top end of the speed control.
PD073:*Low-end frequency: Set to 120. This sets the frequency represented by the bottom end of the speed control.
Now skip straight to...
PD141:*Rated motor voltage: Set to 220V.
PD142:*Rated motor current: Set to 10A.
PD143:*Number of motor poles: Set to 4. This is the number of magnetic poles in the motor. It should be either 2 or 4, and is 4 for the 2.2kW spindle.
PD144:*RPM at 50Hz: Set to 3000. Since the max RPM is 24000 at 400Hz, this means that the RPM at 50Hz will be 3000.
That's it!


Looking good those who know?

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[wallyblackburn]

I've set just a few parameters on Automation Direct VFDs, but that looks like a decent guide. Take your time and double-check. Good luck.

How much travel in your Z-Axis?

Thanks,
Wallace

[Nr1madman]

I've set just a few parameters on Automation Direct VFDs, but that looks like a decent guide. Take your time and double-check. Good luck.

How much travel in your Z-Axis?

Thanks,
WallaceThanks!

Z axis has 140mm of travel..

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[Nr1madman]

Sanitycheck please :D

Have tried my HOMEs now. Signal is high unless any switch is triggered.
This works but should a wire fail Im in trouble as I'm connecting 3 axis paralell to one input?

The slaved axis with separate input is safe because I would notice a broken wire?

Confusion. ...

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[Desertboy]

Sanitycheck please :D

Have tried my HOMEs now. Signal is high unless any switch is triggered.
This works but should a wire fail Im in trouble as I'm connecting 3 axis paralell to one input?

The slaved axis with separate input is safe because I would notice a broken wire?

Confusion. ...

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Relay(s) to turn your NO to NC would do the trick with an added layer of complexity or order NC sensors from china and slum it for a few weeks with the ones you have.

3rd option run as is probably be fine lol.

[Nr1madman]

Relay(s) to turn your NO to NC would do the trick with an added layer of complexity or order NC sensors from china and slum it for a few weeks with the ones you have.

3rd option run as is probably be fine lol.I know that if I start running with this it will never get changed :D
Limits will go through relays but I've read that homes should get connected without relays or logic circuits to get the best repeatability? :)

I feel so close now!!

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[Desertboy]

I know that if I start running with this it will never get changed :D
Limits will go through relays but I've read that homes should get connected without relays or logic circuits to get the best repeatability? :)

I feel so close now!!

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I think if you use Solid state relays it's not an issue as they switch a lot quicker.

But just buy new switches is the proper solution and obviously what you're thinking, you can still play without home switches.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-LJ18A3-8-J-DZ-proximity-sensor-AC24V36V220V380V-NC-M18-inductive-proximity-switch-metal-detection-sensor/32724076488.html

Aren't these the same switches but NC?

[Nr1madman]

I think if you use Solid state relays it's not an issue as they switch a lot quicker.

But just buy new switches is the proper solution and obviously what you're thinking, you can still play without home switches.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-LJ18A3-8-J-DZ-proximity-sensor-AC24V36V220V380V-NC-M18-inductive-proximity-switch-metal-detection-sensor/32724076488.html

Aren't these the same switches but NC?I guess you are right!
Im so sick of soldering and shrinktubes and that crap.. hoped I was done :D
Swedish post has introduced a new fee for packages that come from outside of eu.. so ordering from China will get expensive from now on.
Except for VAT there will be an extra charge for every package. Think the smallest charge was around 7£.. This takes away the freedom of just shopping cheap stuff.

Anyway :D
Will have a play tomorrow and try to make sense of pulses/mm.
Had it at 160 at the moment but didn't seem quite right.


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[Neale]

Relays would work - but if you are worried about broken wires, loose connections, etc, then you need a separate relay at every location where there is a switch. Not a practical way forwards, even more wiring needed, and will cost more than replacing the switches! The only real answer is NC switches, wired in series. This is particularly important for limit switches as you really do want these to function reliably, but I'm not sure if you are using combined home/limit switches. If these are just for homing and you have separate limit switches (NC, I hope), then the home switches are not safety-critical and you probably won't actually break anything if something in the home switch circuits fails.

[JAZZCNC]

Have tried my HOMEs now. Signal is high unless any switch is triggered.
This works but should a wire fail Im in trouble as I'm connecting 3 axis paralell to one input?

The slaved axis with separate input is safe because I would notice a broken wire?

If Just home switches then don't worry about it because if one fails the Limits will catch it.

[Nr1madman]

Relays would work - but if you are worried about broken wires, loose connections, etc, then you need a separate relay at every location where there is a switch. Not a practical way forwards, even more wiring needed, and will cost more than replacing the switches! The only real answer is NC switches, wired in series. This is particularly important for limit switches as you really do want these to function reliably, but I'm not sure if you are using combined home/limit switches. If these are just for homing and you have separate limit switches (NC, I hope), then the home switches are not safety-critical and you probably won't actually break anything if something in the home switch circuits fails.Thanks!
Not using combined home/limits!
Went with mechanical switches for limits and they are no/nc.. so it might be ok :)

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[Nr1madman]

If Just home switches then don't worry about it because if one fails the Limits will catch it.I'm comforted now... thanks ;)

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[Neale]

I'm comforted now... thanks ;)


...as long as you use the NC contacts for the limit switches! Simplifies wiring as well as they can all be in series taken to a single BOB/motion controller input pin. I use proximity switches myself; mine are arranged in pairs (min/max limits on each axis) and wired in "series". Doing that is slightly more complicated than with mechanical switches but it works fine. I tested them with 4 in series (remembering that I also use 24V) and they seemed to work OK as well.

[A_Camera]

Thanks!
Not using combined home/limits!
Went with mechanical switches for limits and they are no/nc.. so it might be ok :)

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.... and there is no reason to make it more complicated than it has to be.

[Nr1madman]

.... and there is no reason to make it more complicated than it has to be.So true :)

I have been curious for some time now.. where in Sweden are you from?
And do you make money from your cnc endeavours or is it only hobby usage?
Have found alot of inspiration from your YouTube channel!

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[Nr1madman]

Alright :D

First test cut made!

https://image.ibb.co/kfwnen/20180328_094110.jpg

Was a bit of difficulties at first.
Got spindlecontrol working at first but with mayor problems.
Estop was tripping and uc300 was loosing connection from computer.

Disconnected speedcontrol from bob and ran only the start relay. Worked better!
Then when I started jogging the machine with spindle on I got false e stop again :(
Disconnected e stop from bob and only had it to control master relay.
Got the problem that when jogging two axis simultaneous uc300 disconnected.
I think the problem is my 5v psu so I hijacked 5v from my pc psu and ran to uc300 so that got powered from pc and the bob/driversignals from separate 5v psu.

This made it work :D :D

I have not reconnected spindle speedcontrol but Im guessing that works now too..!
Homes are working but my slaved axis (x/a) needs a bit calibrating. When cutting a grid of 300x300mm I get about 1mm differens in the diagonals. But there is plenty of adjustment available in the home sensor brackets so it's no biggie :D

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[Desertboy]

Congrats on getting her going, everyone cuts a circle lol.

My first circles were off by about 1mm I read a post by Jazz about rising/falling edge so I flicked the jumper (No. 8 on my AM882) and now the sizes are correct.

Here's Jazz's post
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4513-3-Axis-CNC-router?p=99450#post99450

[Nickhofen]

Maybe the amperes are not enough from the PSU 5v for powering both the UC300 and Bob that is why you solve the problems when you get your 5vokts from two different power supply ...just a thought.

[Desertboy]

From the UC300 manual
23992

[driftspin]

Alright :D

First test cut made!

https://image.ibb.co/kfwnen/20180328_094110.jpg

Was a bit of difficulties at first.
Got spindlecontrol working at first but with mayor problems.
Estop was tripping and uc300 was loosing connection from computer.

Disconnected speedcontrol from bob and ran only the start relay. Worked better!
Then when I started jogging the machine with spindle on I got false e stop again :(
Disconnected e stop from bob and only had it to control master relay.
Got the problem that when jogging two axis simultaneous uc300 disconnected.
I think the problem is my 5v psu so I hijacked 5v from my pc psu and ran to uc300 so that got powered from pc and the bob/driversignals from separate 5v psu.

This made it work :D :D

I have not reconnected spindle speedcontrol but Im guessing that works now too..!
Homes are working but my slaved axis (x/a) needs a bit calibrating. When cutting a grid of 300x300mm I get about 1mm differens in the diagonals. But there is plenty of adjustment available in the home sensor brackets so it's no biggie :D

Skickat från min SM-G955F via TapatalkHey Nr1madman,


Congrats on the first cut.

Grtz Bert.

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[Nr1madman]

Congrats on getting her going, everyone cuts a circle lol.

My first circles were off by about 1mm I read a post by Jazz about rising/falling edge so I flicked the jumper (No. 8 on my AM882) and now the sizes are correct.

Here's Jazz's post
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/4513-3-Axis-CNC-router?p=99450#post99450Hmm have read about that a couple of times.
Have to try it and see if there is accumulation.
But for it to be real obvious I should write a program that takes the axis back and forwards ALOT of times to see if the position changes? :)

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[Nr1madman]

Maybe the amperes are not enough from the PSU 5v for powering both the UC300 and Bob that is why you solve the problems when you get your 5vokts from two different power supply ...just a thought.I think you might be correct Nick!
Either that or my thin long wires from the first psu are the culprit.. or interference.. ;)
The psu is speced at 5v 2A so it should be plenty?

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[Nr1madman]

From the UC300 manual
23992Thanks :D
But I got even more trouble when powering the board via usb. Then it disconnected whenever I e-stopped ;)

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[Nr1madman]

Hey Nr1madman,


Congrats on the first cut.

Grtz Bert.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met TapatalkThanks :D

I hope to say the same to you soon!

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[Nickhofen]

2amperes is good but how thin are the wires?

[Nr1madman]

2amperes is good but how thin are the wires?It's 0.5mm2 wires. So they should be more than fine. They just feel thin/flimsy.
I'm used to 1.5mm2 wires ;)

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[Nickhofen]

You are just fine,according to this :
24006

[Nr1madman]

Okey.. Had another false e-stop today while surfacing a spoilboard :(
But that is something I can chase, try, tinker with and scream at.

Have another problem, when homing my dual motor axis something have happened.
Uccnc seemed to release the slave axis (has to to square the gantry) when I paired them again I can't home?
And if I restart the computer I can home again but just once?
I can still home z and y how many times I want..

Suggestions? :)

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[Nr1madman]

You are just fine,according to this :
24006So I thought :)

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[JAZZCNC]

when I paired them again I can't home?


What do you mean when say "When I paired them again" .? The software should be taking care of the homing seamlessly in the background and you shouldn't have to be doing anything.!

[Nr1madman]

What do you mean when say "When I paired them again" .? The software should be taking care of the homing seamlessly in the background and you shouldn't have to be doing anything.!Well.. I messed up a "home x" session with an e -stop :D
After that uccnc said slave a axis to x axis but only x motor moved.
So I chose slave none, saved, then slaved a axis again.
Now they work while running programs and jogging but "home x" does not work as it should..

My bad but how do I fix it? ;)

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[JAZZCNC]

My bad but how do I fix it? ;)

Ok well if changing the settings isn't working then I'd suggest you re-install UCCNC. Maybe got a corrupted file or plug-in.?

[Nr1madman]

Good morning!

Lovely day today, gonna tidy up some wires and see if I get better results :D

Any feeds and speeds tip for surfacing plywood with a 12mm 4 flute endmill hss.

Not really a suitable tool but the biggest I got right now :)
Have figured out that 1 or 2 flute would be better!

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[Davek0974]

4500rpm, 4000mm/min 2mm DOC, full width.

Definitely not the ideal tool :)

[Nickhofen]

Do not hurry now,try to get a bigger one,a bit with a cutting surface about 20 or more mm will save you much working time from the machine an d a better result.

[Nr1madman]

4500rpm, 4000mm/min 2mm DOC, full width.

Definitely not the ideal tool :)Hmm dont think my spindle can handle 4500rpm. Standard Chinese 2.2kw thingy.. Will try 6000rpm ;)

Thanks :D

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[Nr1madman]

Do not hurry now,try to get a bigger one,a bit with a cutting surface about 20 or more mm will save you much working time from the machine an d a better result.Ofcourse ;)
That would be the smart thing!

I just want to flatten maybe 400x400mm and try to tram the spindle.
Will try to get better material than ply for my "real" spoilboard :)

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[Desertboy]

Ofcourse ;)
That would be the smart thing!

I just want to flatten maybe 400x400mm and try to tram the spindle.
Will try to get better material than ply for my "real" spoilboard :)

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I bought a 12.7mm 2 flute trend straight router cutter for wood and found it has a far better finish than the 2 flute carbide endmills I bought from China. The 2 flute carbide endmills leave an excellent finish with aluminium.

I used 18mm MDF which in the UK is the same price as ply but machines better and is flatter but you loose the ability to mist with oil for aluminium cutting.

[Nr1madman]

I bought a 12.7mm 2 flute trend straight router cutter for wood and found it has a far better finish than the 2 flute carbide endmills I bought from China. The 2 flute carbide endmills leave an excellent finish with aluminium.

I used 18mm MDF which in the UK is the same price as ply but machines better and is flatter but you loose the ability to mist with oil for aluminium cutting.I think mdf is cheaper here, depending on the quality of the ply. Marine ply and birchply is insanely expensive :)

The ply Im using is scraps from my shed, to get me started!
When I feel somewhat secure, safe and possibly tipsy I will bring out the oak :D

Want to find a local supplier of varieties of endmills. The only thing the stores here sell are for handrouters. Oftentimes with bearings :(

A nice singleflute for acrylic would be nice.
Aswell as some downcuts for soft wood!

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[Davek0974]

Hmm dont think my spindle can handle 4500rpm. Standard Chinese 2.2kw thingy.. Will try 6000rpm ;)

Thanks :D

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Ok, yes it will certainly not go that low - i have the same spindle and its useless below 8000, this is the issue with HSS - it needs low speeds or it burns up. Try and find a wood router bit - usually carbide tipped etc.

[Nickhofen]

Bits for woods are better for this job,I found bits for metal at a very good price on flee market some months agoade in Germany and make some tests on several scrap woods, the results are not as good as the one I have with wood bit.
If you can find a bit at a good price with bearing at the end,take it remove the bearing and trim the insert point flat with a Dremel or a similar tool....

[wallyblackburn]

Ok, yes it will certainly not go that low - i have the same spindle and its useless below 8000, this is the issue with HSS - it needs low speeds or it burns up. Try and find a wood router bit - usually carbide tipped etc.

How are folks using these spindles for Aluminum (or are they)? I would think that even with solid carbide 3-flute endmills, 8K would too fast.

Wallace

[Davek0974]

A 2mm single flute carbide tool in alu will be needing 30k+ rpm - these spindles are slow compared to some, even 5-6mm single flute will need 24k rpm.

Single flute work well as they are pretty strong and have a lot of chip-space in the flute.

When you get down to sub 1mm tools you need mega-rpm.

Don't forget these motors are sold as engraving spindles - the tools are sharp pointed and can take any rpm you have.

[wallyblackburn]

Yeah, I come from more of a machining background. I was thinking of 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". But, I bet a good 1/4" coated 3-flute without too long a cutting helix could do 8K. Hopefully, I 'll get to see in next month or so. My 2.2KW spindle should be here in couple weeks.

Thanks,
Wallace

[JAZZCNC]

Yeah, I come from more of a machining background. I was thinking of 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". But, I bet a good 1/4" coated 3-flute without too long a cutting helix could do 8K. Hopefully, I 'll get to see in next month or so. My 2.2KW spindle should be here in couple weeks.

Thanks,
Wallace

I cut Ali regularly with 8mm 3 flute Uncoated Carbide cutters at 12K-15K and 6mm 15-18K. Very rarely do I drop below 10K with any cutter when cutting ali.
The 2.2Kw WC spindles don't really have enough torque to cut ali at lower speeds.

[Nr1madman]

Alright, since you are all discussing :D

How about a v-bit 60degrees 2 flute.
What's a starting point in mdf and in oak?
The only suggestions I've found are for shapeoko type machines and I dont think they are all that accurate for me since they refer to dialnumbers on dewalt routers for speedsetting and something like 500mm feed (20 ipm)

I must be able to go faster? And DOC ? Is it even that relevant when engraving? :)

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[Davek0974]

5000rpm / 3000mm/min for a 10mm HSS V-bit in hard wood.
7000rpm / 4800mm/min for a 10mm carbide v-bit in hard wood.

Both are 2-flute tools, just estimates as it depends on how deep you go etc with an angled cutter.

DOC is always important, all factors are important - get them too wrong and it goodbye cutter :)

[Nr1madman]

5000rpm / 3000mm/min for a 10mm HSS V-bit in hard wood.
7000rpm / 4800mm/min for a 10mm carbide v-bit in hard wood.

Both are 2-flute tools, just estimates as it depends on how deep you go etc with an angled cutter.

DOC is always important, all factors are important - get them too wrong and it goodbye cutter :)Well.. I expressed myself badly.. :)
What I ment was that I will engrave with max 5mm (mostly about 3mm) DOC so to my thinking it should work in one pass?

As the spindle is (as you put it) useless under 8000rpm I should be aiming for 5000mm/min? As starting point?
Haven't even tried jogging at those speeds yet :D
Still playing and calibrating but 4000mm/min went fine so I will give it a try next time I get a chance!
Thanks

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[Davek0974]

I would try at whatever setting you and your machine are comfortable with to start ;)

V-bit are awkward for feed/speed as the diameter is not fixed so the speed will only ever be correct for one part of the tool. Wood is very forgiving and people do this every day so we know it can work. If using router bits, they sometimes come with recommended settings on the pack and routers are generally high speed so these tools would suit the spindle well.

Its all a matter of breaking tools and learning - I shudder to recall how many new carbide bits i smashed when learning the settings, its a sharp lesson when you put a new £15 tool in and it only cuts 5mm before going in the bin :)

[Nr1madman]

I would try at whatever setting you and your machine are comfortable with to start ;)

V-bit are awkward for feed/speed as the diameter is not fixed so the speed will only ever be correct for one part of the tool. Wood is very forgiving and people do this every day so we know it can work. If using router bits, they sometimes come with recommended settings on the pack and routers are generally high speed so these tools would suit the spindle well.

Its all a matter of breaking tools and learning - I shudder to recall how many new carbide bits i smashed when learning the settings, its a sharp lesson when you put a new £15 tool in and it only cuts 5mm before going in the bin :)Oooh.. sounds promising. With no local suppliers for new bits I might err on the cautious side ;)

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[Nickhofen]

Try to buy some Chinese bits ,a dozen of them in different size there is no way to avoid braking some of them, was In procedure of eliminate some router bits before I sell my previous CNC,lol.
No matter what the calculators says about speed and feed it also has to to with your machine's settings as Davek already said. So better to brake some cheap bits than to see to cry for the expensive ones....
I can't recall how many times I stamp a bit in a wood and Plexi because I forgot to zero Z axis!!! ,:-P

[Nr1madman]

Try to buy some Chinese bits ,a dozen of them in different size there is no way to avoid braking some of them, was In procedure of eliminate some router bits before I sell my previous CNC,lol.
No matter what the calculators says about speed and feed it also has to to with your machine's settings as Davek already said. So better to brake some cheap bits than to see to cry for the expensive ones....
I can't recall how many times I stamp a bit in a wood and Plexi because I forgot to zero Z axis!!! ,:-PThis was my plan. But since Sweden has new import charges Im searching for a eu supplier. Shipped from Germany would be nice and fast :)

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[Nr1madman]

Been playing some more :D

Look at this video, what might be causing this weird motion?
To fast motion for set kernel speed or just funky g code?
Have cut circles with constant speed so this was a first :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlvP9uEJP8g

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[JAZZCNC]

Post the G-code

[Davek0974]

Been playing some more :D

Look at this video, what might be causing this weird motion?
To fast motion for set kernel speed or just funky g code?
Have cut circles with constant speed so this was a first :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlvP9uEJP8g

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The fact that it looks the same each rotation would suggest to me its the G-code itself, it could be made up of arcs not radii and the machine could be in exact-stop mode maybe?

[Nr1madman]

Post the G-code

Alright, go easy on me as I have no clue what Im doing in cam :D

[Clive S]

Removed

[Nr1madman]

You have not posted your gcode you appear to have posted the ini fileI don't think so?
When I open it it's :
(No. 1: Part 1)
G00 X16.9301 Y32.4734
G00 Z0.5000
G01 Z0.0000 F600 S24000
G01 X17.0971 Y32.2580 Z-0.1363
G01 X17.5547 Y31.6925 Z-0.5000
G01 X17.0971 Y32.2580 Z-0.8637
G01 X16.9301 Y32.4734 Z-1.0000
G01 X17.0971 Y32.2580 F1200
G01 X18.3224 Y30.7439
G01 X18.3753 Y30.6802
G03 X165.3861 Y35.5432 I71.6236 J59.3169
G03 X168.5055 Y40.1417 I-73.9716 J53.5375
G01 X168.5497 Y40.2117
G01 X169.5325 Y41.7967
G01 X170.2938 Y43.0831
G01 X170.5245 Y43.4729
G01 X171.4812 Y45.1695
G01 X171.5210 Y45.2421

And so on..


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[Clive S]

Sorry you are correct for some reason I down loaded it to a Chromebook then had to rename it and it showed up as a warco.ini file upon checking again it must have been in cache. Strange!!

Anyway in looks like it is the Cam giving you the problems with straight line segments

[m_c]

Unless those straight line moves cause an abrupt direction change that creates a corner angle larger than the set corner break angle/corner rounding settings which would force an exact stop, then they shouldn't cause any problems.

Has exact stop mode (G61) been enabled in your controller?
I don't see it in your G-code file, but you could try adding a G64 to the beginning to see if things improve.

[m_c]

And having just run the figures, all is revealed.

24019

The short moves are creating two 180deg turns, which will be triggering exact stops.
And as they're part of a depth change, I'm guessing you need to look at your lead in move settings.

[Nr1madman]

Thanks for the help guys!

I'm greatly relieved that my weak camskills are the culprit :)
Guess do it again, do it right is in order!

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[JAZZCNC]

Strange code that what did you create it in.?

[Nr1madman]

Strange code that what did you create it in.?Estlcam :)
For my simple needs it feels really intuitive / basic.
Tried cambam some but it just messes with my mind.
For real simple dxf parts I've tried the included cam in uccnc with good results!

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[JAZZCNC]

Estlcam :)
For my simple needs it feels really intuitive / basic.

Ok that surprises me because I've used Estlcam and the code is usually nice and clean. That thou is strange how it does 180 while ramping.:ambivalence:

[Nr1madman]

Ok that surprises me because I've used Estlcam and the code is usually nice and clean. That thou is strange how it does 180 while ramping.:ambivalence:More than likely my fault :D

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[Nr1madman]

New day and new questions :D

I fused my 24v psu with a 2A fuse.
But now that I think about it.. must be wrong?
The psu is 24v / 2A but thats on the secondary side.
Input is 50w so fuse should be around 0.25A.. correct?

My toroid is 500VA so without inrushcurrent 2.2A fuse should be enough? I fused 2.3A but that kept blowing every 5-7times I powered up. Exchanged for a 3A and now it seems okey but is it still protected?

I'm wanting to exchange to MCB type of fuses. Now I have 5x20 glassfuses. Not really easy to find MCB with these kind of ratings :)

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[Doddy]

New day and new questions :D

I fused my 24v psu with a 2A fuse.
But now that I think about it.. must be wrong?
The psu is 24v / 2A but thats on the secondary side.
Input is 50w so fuse should be around 0.25A.. correct?

My toroid is 500VA so without inrushcurrent 2.2A fuse should be enough? I fused 2.3A but that kept blowing every 5-7times I powered up. Exchanged for a 3A and now it seems okey but is it still protected?

I'm wanting to exchange to MCB type of fuses. Now I have 5x20 glassfuses. Not really easy to find MCB with these kind of ratings :)

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Re. 24V PSU - you're broadly correct - though personally I'd give it a little more headroom (rough rule-of-thumb is 125%) - probably 300mA, and with a power-supply then use an anti-surge or time-delay fuse.

For the toroidal transformer an anti-surge is a must, though I'd* even go as far as installing a NTC thermistor in series with the primary coil to limit the inrush current.

* wrong tense : I'm building up a PSU now for my next machine - NTC thermistors on order, SSRs on order - in the mistaken belief that zero-crossing would be a good thing - but a little googling reveals the role of the NTCs.

[Nr1madman]

For the toroidal transformer an anti-surge is a must, though I'd* even go as far as installing a NTC thermistor in series with the primary coil to limit the inrush current.


I was under the impression that I could get away with 500va without anti surge but 600va and larger was more of a problem?

Can confirm that my entire shed blinks and hum for a sec when I power the toroid :D

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[Desertboy]

I was under the impression that I could get away with 500va without anti surge but 600va and larger was more of a problem?

Can confirm that my entire shed blinks and hum for a sec when I power the toroid :D

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I have NTC on my transformer was a bitch to get the right one. I have no issues running it without NTC (Doesn't trip anything) but the real advantage for me is I can use a MCB type a if you use NTC for extra protection, remember I blew a transformer up already lol.

We're 99% certain we plugged the bridge rectifier in back to front during testing but you're not using one are you?

I have a 1kva transformer 45v output (70v when rectified)

[jkkmobile]

Why wouldn't you just use ready made inrush current limiter?

I am using Block ESG3 limiter with my 625VA transformer..works great.

[m_c]

For the 24V supply, a couple amp fuse should be fine. Some of the better supplies have recommended input fuse ratings, and from memory they're typically in the 1-2A range.
The thing with switch mode supplies, is due to their inherent design/failure modes, the smallest possible fuse is unlikely to prevent damage to the supply. Any reasonable quality supply will have the output overload protected anyway, plus they also cause a surge on power up, so too small fuse is more likely to cause more problems than it will prevent. The fuse is only their to prevent fires should something short out internally, by which time the supply is dead anyway.

I wouldn't personally bother with any anti-surge on a toiroid that size, unless it's causing problems. Toiroids are however where correct size fusing is the difference between just blowing a fuse, or melting the toiroid should you overload it.
If I did want to add some anti-surge, I'd fit a NTC thermistor, and parallel it with a relay that bypasses the thermistor after a couple seconds. The problem with just a thermistor on it's own, is it relies on current passing through it to keep it warm and resistance low, so when everything is sitting idle, it can cause the voltage to drop.
The problem with thermistors on their own, is if you use too large a one, the voltage drop will be larger, and if you use too small a one, you risk burning it out under heavy load.

[Doddy]

Why wouldn't you just use ready made inrush current limiter?

I am using Block ESG3 limiter with my 625VA transformer..works great.


£87.28, from RS-Components (UK). That's why.

[Nr1madman]

Aah much to think about.. as usual ;)

Will skip the termistor for the moment and keep my 2A fuse.. thanks for explaining the fire pitch. Actually read that fuses for small psu.s are redundant but this seemed logical and cleared that up for me..

On another note.
Vcarved my children's names inside some heart graffics.. do you all think the wife will think better of the router now? :D

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[Nr1madman]

Had a small disaster, quick solution and some great progress.

https://image.ibb.co/jhSjux/20180404_183623.jpg

Nipple broke!
Found a new one from a Swedish cnc part store :D Will be here tomorrow or Tuesday. Was set to wait for chinadelivery 4-6weeks ;)
Sometimes it just works out.

Borrowed a friend's laptop with vectrics aspire installed.
What a difference!
If I ever use my router to make money I will buy vectric stuff and stop trying the free cam programs I've been testing so far :)

Well truth to be told I have not tried fusions cam yet.. that might be even better?

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[JAZZCNC]

Nipple broke!
Found a new one from a Swedish cnc part store :D Will be here tomorrow or Tuesday. Was set to wait for chinadelivery 4-6weeks ;)

IF you have any troubles let me know because I remove these and fit Pushfit connectors so I have lots spare.

[Nr1madman]

IF you have any troubles let me know because I remove these and fit Pushfit connectors so I have lots spare.Ah thanks for the offer! I'm hoping the right part arrives tomorrow ;)

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[Nickhofen]

Aspire is very good, I love it.

[Davek0974]

Horses for courses - I have Aspire and also use Fusion which is great but steep learning curve.

Fusion is free as well for small users.

[Nr1madman]

Horses for courses - I have Aspire and also use Fusion which is great but steep learning curve.

Fusion is free as well for small users.Steep learning curve sounds like something in the future when I understand everything a little more :)
But it might be a good idea to download it while it's still free :D

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[Desertboy]

Steep learning curve sounds like something in the future when I understand everything a little more :)
But it might be a good idea to download it while it's still free :D

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I've generated all my gcode in fusion so far it's not that bad, I wouldn't say it was harsh I'm managed to generate working code with it lol.

Like everything in cnc you have to take a step back sometimes to absorb it all but once it gets in it's not that complicated after all and you wonder what you were worried about.

You tube has some good getting started with cam on Fusion 360 videos, you don't need to know how to model in fusion to use the cam but it does simplify things.

Generally I just pick a tool, pick a tool path click some setting and press enter lol and it seems to work ;)

[Davek0974]

Yes its not really hard to learn, just that its so powerful, most users will likely only ever need to learn 10% of the functionality :)

I knew nothing about 3d and after about 3m of messing about in the evenings I can now generate 3d items and CAM them successfully then machine them, its very satisfying.

Its not something you can "download" as such - it is an app BUT its all cloud based when running, you can work offline for 4 weeks i think then it must connect and sync or it will not run any more. Is free for small users, just have to sign up each year, takes seconds.

[Nr1madman]

Once there is possibility for play there is no work getting done :)
Have had some issues with cuts. Thought the spindle needed serious tramming but in the end I think I located the error. My 36mm plywood spoilboard is flexing!!
Have only fastened it to the machine frame at 8 points. 4 screws at each side.
Seems like I have to counterbore some screws in the middle aswell :)
Did not think the routerbits would have that much "pull strenght" that it had!

Back to the drawingboard......

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[Desertboy]

Once there is possibility for play there is no work getting done :)
Have had some issues with cuts. Thought the spindle needed serious tramming but in the end I think I located the error. My 36mm plywood spoilboard is flexing!!
Have only fastened it to the machine frame at 8 points. 4 screws at each side.
Seems like I have to counterbore some screws in the middle aswell :)
Did not think the routerbits would have that much "pull strenght" that it had!

Back to the drawingboard......

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I made my bed captive (It sits inside my frame) for this very reason but then the pressure is on you to cut the mdf perfectly otherwise it will still wobble, I think I got it right as I ended up having to tap all 4 corners with a wooden mallet to get it to sit flat. I'm also not using the bed for clamping.

I have 18mm mdf then 6mm on top which is my spoil board. I made aluminium clamps from 2020 Tslot and they flex like hell totally useless like yourself I underestimated the forces involved and have had to remake all my clamps in steel and £35 wasted at KJN. Under the MDF I have 4545 Tslot supports, every 12cm I think it works out to.

Wait till you start cutting at 8m/min and you'll see the forces involved lol, my floor concrete workshop floor rumbles when it's running, even lorries don't make the floor do that lol.

[Nr1madman]

I made my bed captive (It sits inside my frame) for this very reason but then the pressure is on you to cut the mdf perfectly otherwise it will still wobble, I think I got it right as I ended up having to tap all 4 corners with a wooden mallet to get it to sit flat. I'm also not using the bed for clamping.

I have 18mm mdf then 6mm on top which is my spoil board. I made aluminium clamps from 2020 Tslot and they flex like hell totally useless like yourself I underestimated the forces involved and have had to remake all my clamps in steel and £35 wasted at KJN. Under the MDF I have 4545 Tslot supports, every 12cm I think it works out to.

Wait till you start cutting at 8m/min and you'll see the forces involved lol, my floor concrete workshop floor rumbles when it's running, even lorries don't make the floor do that lol.I have not tried speeds like that yet.. 5000mm/min is max right now.. you might think I would be curious about testing max speed but it just scares me :D

Have to find some nice t tracks, right now Im screwing everything to the spoilboard. Doesn't feel right!

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[Nickhofen]

If you put T slots on your CNC bed you can make the hold down clamps your own ,there are some good video on youtube.I will try to find the one that help make mine and post it here.

[Nr1madman]

If you put T slots on your CNC bed you can make the hold down clamps your own ,there are some good video on youtube.I will try to find the one that help make mine and post it here.Thanks! Have already made CAD and cam of "toe clamps"
What type do you prefer?

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[Nickhofen]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiPfaA2oZY
I have use those,cheap and easy,I made them from a thick plastic kitchen cutting board,lol.

[Desertboy]

Thanks! Have already made CAD and cam of "toe clamps"
What type do you prefer?

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Camel toe.......


Sorry couldn't resist ;)

[Nr1madman]

Thanks Nick!

They are similar to the ones I want to cut..
Just have to find some t tracks first :D

Amazon has some but not with shipping to Sweden for the long stuff :)

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[Nr1madman]

Camel toe.......


Sorry couldn't resist ;)I don't know how much clamping force there is in a cameltoe.. might be overwhelming?

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[Desertboy]

I don't know how much clamping force there is in a cameltoe.. might be overwhelming?

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An Essex girl has the highest clamping force known to man ;)

[Nr1madman]

Hmm not really machine related.. but how should I finish the oak lid on this piece?
Had to make a copy of vectric free paradise box :)

Should I oil the lid? With what oil?
Or stain?
Or varnish? :)
https://image.ibb.co/i8qBmx/20180423_133134.jpg

Really should get back to finishing the machine :)

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[Nickhofen]

You can find at gun shops a product that is called Tru Oil, actually it is not an oil, it is varnish.
They apply it at the wood parts of the guns to protect them from cracking after continuous use near water, I am talking for hunting guns of course and not those AK-47 Kalashnikov:witless:
You apply the product with a rag , one hand every two or three hours, easy to use and when it is hardened it gives a nice yellowish color to the wood.
https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Oil-Stock-Finish-Birchwood-Casey/dp/B00FSVM06S
The other option is clear varnish in a spray can...

[Nr1madman]

I know.. I know!
Should finish the machine but playing is sooo fun :D

Made another free vectric project ;)
https://image.ibb.co/eUu3B7/20180509_132207.jpg

Turned out real nice!

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[Desertboy]

Coming on nicely, bet it's satisfying to see it doing it's thing. I can't show the stuff I made lol, I'm political and politics has no place in these forums.

[Nr1madman]

Why do I think the worst when somebody hides behind politic :D

Have to make a dustshoe!
This has to be my next project!

My shop vac is so loud that I won't be able to stand by the machine as it runs but why would I want to really?
Maybe should invest in something more quite...

If using a cyclone to catch most dust is a home vac even something to think about or is it to weak ?

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[Nickhofen]

I know.. I know!
Should finish the machine but playing is sooo fun :D

Made another free vectric project ;)
https://image.ibb.co/eUu3B7/20180509_132207.jpg

Turned out real nice!

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Wow nice!!!


Coming on nicely, bet it's satisfying to see it doing it's thing. I can't show the stuff I made lol, I'm political and politics has no place in these forums.

Now I am curious to see....:peaceful:

[Desertboy]

Why do I think the worst when somebody hides behind politic :D

Have to make a dustshoe!
This has to be my next project!

My shop vac is so loud that I won't be able to stand by the machine as it runs but why would I want to really?
Maybe should invest in something more quite...

If using a cyclone to catch most dust is a home vac even something to think about or is it to weak ?

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All politicians are bastards so you're wise to think the worst lol.

I bought a dust shoe on ebay £20 on Clive S advice and a cyclone for £10 works well with a 1000w vacuum cleaner.

[Nr1madman]

All politicians are bastards so you're wise to think the worst lol.

I bought a dust shoe on ebay £20 on Clive S advice and a cyclone for £10 works well with a 1000w vacuum cleaner.
I saw clives tip about the dustshoe and I was tempted.. the shipping cost to Sweden was not nice so I have to try my own design :D

[Nr1madman]

Thanks Nick!

Can't take much credit as it's a free project ;)

[Desertboy]

Thanks Nick!

Can't take much credit as it's a free project ;)

You did make the machine which is actually the important bit here ;)

[Nr1madman]

You did make the machine which is actually the important bit here ;)Woohoo I like your thinking :D

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[Nr1madman]

Okey.. now Im confused!

When running large 3d files I get ext e-stops.

The problem gets worse when the machine has been on for a longer period of time. (2-3h)

First I thought noise.. rerouted e stop cabeling.. no improvement.

Removed e stop pin in uccnc.. no improvement.
How can it trip ext e stop when it's not connected?
How do I change "debounce" in uccnc?

Is it my 5£ bob thats the culprit or maybe my computer?

Very annoying :)

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[Palletlad]

my first thought as I presume you have your mach3 settings correct for the e stop is to check what's going on with the signal via a multimeter.

[Nr1madman]

my first thought as I presume you have your mach3 settings correct for the e stop is to check what's going on with the signal via a multimeter.Well.. the signal goes from the bob to a relay and back to the bob.. the relay works otherwise power would be lost to the drives..

Well have a spare bob and spare relays.
Will try a little swap!
Relay first :)

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[A_Camera]

Okey.. now Im confused!

When running large 3d files I get ext e-stops.

The problem gets worse when the machine has been on for a longer period of time. (2-3h)

First I thought noise.. rerouted e stop cabeling.. no improvement.

Removed e stop pin in uccnc.. no improvement.
How can it trip ext e stop when it's not connected?
How do I change "debounce" in uccnc?

Is it my 5£ bob thats the culprit or maybe my computer?

Very annoying :)

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I don't think it is a debouncing issue. I assume you are using NC type connection for your e-Stop, so in normal case you have a permanent connection. When you push the button you break the line and bouncing would mean the switch will make several contacts, but that would not make a difference since you should expect that UCCNC already detected the first break. That is what you normally want from an e-Stop. You should not have a button which needs debouncing in NC connection because the debouncing will only delay the button push detection circuit, which is pointless and counter productive in an emergency situation. But... if you have a bad contact somewhere in your e-Stop circuit and you have NC circuit then it may trigger the e-Stop function, which again is a good thing and you don't normally want to hide that because it indicates an error which should be fixed and not hidden.

So, if I were you I would NOT try to add any debouncing but would start a fault finding activity, checking every wire and of course, also the BOB. As a matter of fact, I would also try to use a different port of the UCX00 board you are using, because in theory, even that can fail. If nothing is connected except the BOB then you MUST also remove the logical connection in UCCNC so that the input is not defined as e-Stop. You can do that in the Configuration, I/O setup tab. If you have done that and still get e-Stop then I am lost and suggest you contact CNC Drive support. I don't know which UCCNC version you are using, perhaps if it is a test version there is a bug, they can check that out.

[Doddy]

Problem sounds to be sporadic - unlikely to be something that can be diagnosed with a meter.

@Nr1: The things I'd look at:-

Sounds like you have potentially two problems - one of UCCNC registering an input when the input is inhibited?, that's my understanding from your description - and I'd try to resolve that first. If the e-stop, inhibited in UCCNC, is ignored from manual activation of the e-stop (i.e. it looks inhibited) but you're still getting random e-stops through, then I'd suspect the UCCNC software. Could you knock-up a Mach3 build and see if you get similar?
If, however, having inhibited e-stop in UCCNC, the e-stop control does work as you'd normally expect then clearly this is a configuration/software bug issue - try rebuilding your config etc (I've not used UCCNC outside of demo mode so don't know how easy this is?) - or, again, trial a Mach3 build to resolve if it's a software issue or not.

The other problem sounds like the sporadic triggering of the e-stop at an electrical level. Try to understand the software issue before you waste hours on the electrics...

You have two main signal paths: Control-to-the-BoB, and BoB-to-UCx00. The first path - it sounds like you've tried to address EMC/noise (though there can still be gotchas there - are you grounding the screen only at the control box side?, internally to the control box have you shielded that cable?). You could switch to 24V signalling by including a current-limiting resistor between the e-stop line and the BoB input - that would improve noise immunity, or put a (say) 1k resistor between the BoB input and ground to bleed any capacitive induced EM. I personally think this is unlikely to fix your issue.
What about the BoB-to-UCx00 - are you using the provided unshielded IDC cable (26w IDC connector, 25W D-Type IDC connector, 30cm of cable between)? - when I build up my control box I *will* be cutting this cable down to a minimal size to reduce the effect of cross-coupled signals from UCx00 outputs and UCx00 inputs. The UCx00 inputs are reasonably high-input impedance (though a 4k7 pull-up to 5V on board) - it's possible to get short pulses from the stepper outputs coupled to an e-stop input. Have you tried changing the e-stop input? - e.g. Input #13 on a port 2/3 is physically as far away from the stepper outputs on the IDC cable - cross talk should be minimised here. By grounding input #12 as well you're providing the best isolation for your e-stop as you practically can. Worth a shot to see.

Other ideas - try de-powering your spindle - and air-cut - see if that improves things - will indicate if your problem is EM related. Similarly, disconnect the outputs from the BoB to the Stepper Drivers to see if that affects it (causes: EM, or noise on the PSU lines).

[Nr1madman]

I don't think it is a debouncing issue. I assume you are using NC type connection for your e-Stop, so in normal case you have a permanent connection. When you push the button you break the line and bouncing would mean the switch will make several contacts, but that would not make a difference since you should expect that UCCNC already detected the first break. That is what you normally want from an e-Stop. You should not have a button which needs debouncing in NC connection because the debouncing will only delay the button push detection circuit, which is pointless and counter productive in an emergency situation. But... if you have a bad contact somewhere in your e-Stop circuit and you have NC circuit then it may trigger the e-Stop function, which again is a good thing and you don't normally want to hide that because it indicates an error which should be fixed and not hidden.

So, if I were you I would NOT try to add any debouncing but would start a fault finding activity, checking every wire and of course, also the BOB. As a matter of fact, I would also try to use a different port of the UCX00 board you are using, because in theory, even that can fail. If nothing is connected except the BOB then you MUST also remove the logical connection in UCCNC so that the input is not defined as e-Stop. You can do that in the Configuration, I/O setup tab. If you have done that and still get e-Stop then I am lost and suggest you contact CNC Drive support. I don't know which UCCNC version you are using, perhaps if it is a test version there is a bug, they can check that out.Thanks!

That's exactly what's confusing me.
Even when I reset the e-stops port and pin to 0/0 instead of pin 12 port 3 (in my case) I still get ext e stop.. weird!

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[A_Camera]

Thanks!

That's exactly what's confusing me.
Even when I reset the e-stops port and pin to 0/0 instead of pin 12 port 3 (in my case) I still get ext e stop.. weird!

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Are you using a formal release or a test release? If you are using a test release I'd install a formal one and/or contact CNC Drive because if you have disabled hardware e-Stop then it really sounds like some invisible configuration issue or a software bug. I think you should send them a mail or post this on the CNC Drive forum. I am pretty sure you would quickly get an answer there and Balazs would quickly start debugging and solve the issue.

In any case, debouncing is not the right way to go, the problem must be caused by something else. If the e-Stop port and pin is defined as 0/0 then it should not be caused by the hardware.

[Nr1madman]

Problem sounds to be sporadic - unlikely to be something that can be diagnosed with a meter.

@Nr1: The things I'd look at:-

Sounds like you have potentially two problems - one of UCCNC registering an input when the input is inhibited?, that's my understanding from your description - and I'd try to resolve that first. If the e-stop, inhibited in UCCNC, is ignored from manual activation of the e-stop (i.e. it looks inhibited) but you're still getting random e-stops through, then I'd suspect the UCCNC software. Could you knock-up a Mach3 build and see if you get similar?
If, however, having inhibited e-stop in UCCNC, the e-stop control does work as you'd normally expect then clearly this is a configuration/software bug issue - try rebuilding your config etc (I've not used UCCNC outside of demo mode so don't know how easy this is?) - or, again, trial a Mach3 build to resolve if it's a software issue or not.

The other problem sounds like the sporadic triggering of the e-stop at an electrical level. Try to understand the software issue before you waste hours on the electrics...

You have two main signal paths: Control-to-the-BoB, and BoB-to-UCx00. The first path - it sounds like you've tried to address EMC/noise (though there can still be gotchas there - are you grounding the screen only at the control box side?, internally to the control box have you shielded that cable?). You could switch to 24V signalling by including a current-limiting resistor between the e-stop line and the BoB input - that would improve noise immunity, or put a (say) 1k resistor between the BoB input and ground to bleed any capacitive induced EM. I personally think this is unlikely to fix your issue.
What about the BoB-to-UCx00 - are you using the provided unshielded IDC cable (26w IDC connector, 25W D-Type IDC connector, 30cm of cable between)? - when I build up my control box I *will* be cutting this cable down to a minimal size to reduce the effect of cross-coupled signals from UCx00 outputs and UCx00 inputs. The UCx00 inputs are reasonably high-input impedance (though a 4k7 pull-up to 5V on board) - it's possible to get short pulses from the stepper outputs coupled to an e-stop input. Have you tried changing the e-stop input? - e.g. Input #13 on a port 2/3 is physically as far away from the stepper outputs on the IDC cable - cross talk should be minimised here. By grounding input #12 as well you're providing the best isolation for your e-stop as you practically can. Worth a shot to see.

Other ideas - try de-powering your spindle - and air-cut - see if that improves things - will indicate if your problem is EM related. Similarly, disconnect the outputs from the BoB to the Stepper Drivers to see if that affects it (causes: EM, or noise on the PSU lines).Thanks for the input, loots of things to try :D

Im already using 24v system for limits and e stop. So it should be alright unless the bob is shit..
Am using unshielded ribbon cable and can try with another one.
But if there is faulty hardware then the problem should disappear when I disable the e stop port and pin.. strange!

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[Nr1madman]

Are you using a formal release or a test release? If you are using a test release I'd install a formal one and/or contact CNC Drive because if you have disabled hardware e-Stop then it really sounds like some invisible configuration issue or a software bug. I think you should send them a mail or post this on the CNC Drive forum. I am pretty sure you would quickly get an answer there and Balazs would quickly start debugging and solve the issue.

In any case, debouncing is not the right way to go, the problem must be caused by something else. If the e-Stop port and pin is defined as 0/0 then it should not be caused by the hardware.

Exactly!

I am using 1.2047, latest stable release according to cncdrive..
Have emailed balazs, hope he has a solution ;)

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[JAZZCNC]

Don't know if you are using USB version or not but I'd check your PC settings because could be energy saving shutting down the USB ports when thinks Pc is idle.? This would have the same affect as E-stop to the controller because lost connection with PC which would explain why still get E-stop message when not connected.!

Could even be a program working in the background which try's to check ports etc causing blip just long enough to trick controller it's lost connection.

[A_Camera]

Don't know if you are using USB version or not but I'd check your PC settings because could be energy saving shutting down the USB ports when thinks Pc is idle.? This would have the same affect as E-stop to the controller because lost connection with PC which would explain why still get E-stop message when not connected.!

Could even be a program working in the background which try's to check ports etc causing blip just long enough to trick controller it's lost connection.

I thought about that also but he said that UCCNC detects a hardware e-Stop, not that it lost connection.

[A_Camera]

Exactly!

I am using 1.2047, latest stable release according to cncdrive..
Have emailed balazs, hope he has a solution ;)

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I am also using 1.2047 and never seen unexpected e-Stop.

[Nr1madman]

Don't know if you are using USB version or not but I'd check your PC settings because could be energy saving shutting down the USB ports when thinks Pc is idle.? This would have the same affect as E-stop to the controller because lost connection with PC which would explain why still get E-stop message when not connected.!

Could even be a program working in the background which try's to check ports etc causing blip just long enough to trick controller it's lost connection.This might be it.. not power setting but background programs.
I have checked power settings and they are set to "always on"

I'm using my old home computer so there are all sorts of programs installed. Should test reinstall but I have no valid windows cds left. Stuff like that gets destroyed some were between child 2 and 4 ;)

Its still strange that it starts to happen after about 2h and not when running pockets and contours just 3d....

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[JAZZCNC]

I thought about that also but he said that UCCNC detects a hardware e-Stop, not that it lost connection.

It might not show as a full loss of connection but does cause's an interrupt just long enough to trick controller. These are the Silly tricks USB gets upto and why I won't use it.!!
Also do you know for sure that UCCNC displays connection lost message and doesn't just throw a Generic E-stop message if doesn't fully lose connection.?

[Nr1madman]

It might not show as a full loss of connection but does cause's an interrupt just long enough to trick controller. These are the Silly tricks USB gets upto and why I won't use it.!!
Also do you know for sure that UCCNC displays connection lost message and doesn't just throw a Generic E-stop message if doesn't fully lose connection.?Well during large noise problems (tried unshielded vfd wire) uccnc looses connection with uc300 and can't be reset without disconnecting usb and reconnect.
That is way worse then e stop.
Now when it e stops I can just reset, run spindle and then start cycle again.
But for every time I do so it will run a shorter time before it e stops again :(

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[m_c]

USB will generally just fail/lock up. If you do get problems with that, get a USB isolator.
Search ebay for "USB Isolator", and get one that uses an ADUM chip (I think most of them do).

However, it sounds like you have a noise problem.
Simple fix is to add a small capacitor to the E-stop input to the controller to act as a basic noise filter, but depending on your e-stop circuit, it may be better to add a resistor to increase the load on the circuit so noise isn't as big a problem.
The only concern with those fixes is, the noise may be affecting other things, but not as noticeably I.e. lost/gained steps.

[Nr1madman]

USB will generally just fail/lock up. If you do get problems with that, get a USB isolator.
Search ebay for "USB Isolator", and get one that uses an ADUM chip (I think most of them do).

However, it sounds like you have a noise problem.
Simple fix is to add a small capacitor to the E-stop input to the controller to act as a basic noise filter, but depending on your e-stop circuit, it may be better to add a resistor to increase the load on the circuit so noise isn't as big a problem.
The only concern with those fixes is, the noise may be affecting other things, but not as noticeably I.e. lost/gained steps.But should not the noiseproblem disappear when I unassign the e stop port and pin in the software?

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[JAZZCNC]

USB will generally just fail/lock up. If you do get problems with that, get a USB isolator.
Search ebay for "USB Isolator", and get one that uses an ADUM chip (I think most of them do).

However, it sounds like you have a noise problem.
Simple fix is to add a small capacitor to the E-stop input to the controller to act as a basic noise filter, but depending on your e-stop circuit, it may be better to add a resistor to increase the load on the circuit so noise isn't as big a problem.
The only concern with those fixes is, the noise may be affecting other things, but not as noticeably I.e. lost/gained steps.

He's getting the E-stop even when it's not configured for E-stop so it's not going to be noise on pins.!!

Nr1 are you running the uc300 with external 5v or using the USB.? . . . If later then use external 5v. Same with BOB.

[Nr1madman]

He's getting the E-stop even when it's not configured for E-stop so it's not going to be noise on pins.!!

Nr1 are you running the uc300 with external 5v or using the USB.? . . . If later then use external 5v. Same with BOB.I'm using the pc's 5v but from power supply not usb.
When I used standalone 5v psu I got connection loss issues.
The bob is still powered from 5v psu and 24v psu ..

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[m_c]

Is the E-stop a dedicated pin, or configurable to any pin?

[Nr1madman]

Is the E-stop a dedicated pin, or configurable to any pin?Configurable to any pin.. get the same error when using pin 12 (like usual) but no wire connected :)

Gonna try to morrow to assign it to a pin or port thats not connected to anything but actually exist physically. Now when I disable e stop I assigned port 0 pin 0 and that doesn't exist..

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[m_c]

The non-existent pin may actually point to something that does exist.

I'd assign it to a pin that physically exists, and also wire the pin either high or low. I've got no idea how pins on UCNC controllers are configured/wired, so leaving it unconnected means it could be floating high/low.

[driftspin]

This might be it.. not power setting but background programs.
I have checked power settings and they are set to "always on"

I'm using my old home computer so there are all sorts of programs installed. Should test reinstall but I have no valid windows cds left. Stuff like that gets destroyed some were between child 2 and 4 ;)

Its still strange that it starts to happen after about 2h and not when running pockets and contours just 3d....

Skickat från min SM-G955F via TapatalkHi nr1madman

Do you have fault relais from the drives hooked up to the emergency circuit?

Just guessing?


Grtz Bert.

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[Nr1madman]

Hi nr1madman

Do you have fault relais from the drives hooked up to the emergency circuit?

Just guessing?


Grtz Bert.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met TapatalkHey!

No I haven't gotten that far yet :)
The e stop circuit is made of e stop buttons and a momentary button driving/latching a relay.
This relay supply the signal to the bob for e stop and power the drives psu and vfd.

So in my thinking a fault in relay or e stop buttons would disable drives and vfd aswell...

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[Nr1madman]

Okey..
Made some changes.
Jazz will get upset because I made several changes at once and should this work I still don't know the fault :)

I looked at all wiring and found some places where I could improve so a little better cable management. Moved my relays with 24v logic further away from 230v and 50v.
Also disconnected and removed vfd control from the bob. Had it connected to on/off relay and 1-10v speed control.

After these changes it's been running 3h without fake e stop.

Read on cncdrive forum about similar problem and it turned out that it was interference from switches that caused it. Strange when the e stop was set to port and pin 0!

If it continues to work for me I need another solution for vfd control! Is rs485 to usb twowire system ok?
But that only let's you control speed and not start/stop from system? Or am I mistaken? :D

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[Doddy]

Okey..
Read on cncdrive forum about similar problem and it turned out that it was interference from switches that caused it. Strange when the e stop was set to port and pin 0!

If it continues to work for me I need another solution for vfd control! Is rs485 to usb twowire system ok?
But that only let's you control speed and not start/stop from system? Or am I mistaken? :D



You can control the forward/reverse control, as well as spindle speed, over the serial bus - I do that now with Mach3, using the HuanYang controller plugin. Clearly depends somewhat on your controller (being a HuanYang) and the plug-in for UCCNC (I've not tried it, but it seems pretty basic functionality - I've got the code for the LinuxCNC driver and it's just a different control sequence that gets sent).

USB interface?, it's fine using that for a USB->Serial convertor - there's nothing time critical sent over this interface if all you're doing is controlling spindle speed etc (standard chinese AC spindle, etc). Just use a decent twisted-pair cable to connect the interface to the spindle inverter. (also, I can't remember WHAT connector I used - but I found it easier to fit a 2-pin connector into the side-wall of the inverter to allow the modbus interface to be easily made/unmade (my frequent changes to the control box solution made me want some flexibility between modbus and discrete control).

[A_Camera]

If it continues to work for me I need another solution for vfd control! Is rs485 to usb twowire system ok?
But that only let's you control speed and not start/stop from system? Or am I mistaken? :D


Yes, you are mistaken. I don't know which VFD you have, but as far as I know, all VFD which allows RS485 control has at least on/off/forward/reverse/speed commands. I control mine via Modbus protocol and even download some monitoring data.

The USB dongle is fine for Modbus but some models are better than others. I have one like this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Umsetzer-Interface-USB-RS485-Kamera-Fernsteuerung-Raspberry-Pi-/231570466384?hash=item35eaace650)...

24218

...which I don't use because I wanted Ethernet control, so I bought this one:

24219

Both works reliably, and in fact, you can also buy a WIFI version, which I'd probably go for today, if I not already had this wired one.

[Nr1madman]

Thanks for the help!
I love it when I'm wrong and it's actually easier than I imagine :D

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[Nr1madman]

Damnit! E stops again!

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[JAZZCNC]

Damnit! E stops again!

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The solution is simple.??? . . . Dump USB and Go with Ethernet UC300 :joker:

[Nr1madman]

The solution is simple.??? . . . Dump USB and Go with Ethernet UC300 :joker:Do you really think that might solve it if the real problem is interference?

I just might change but that means a new uccnc licence aswell :(

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[Nr1madman]

Ethernet is looking sweeter and sweeter!

Have been running simple programs today, no 3d.
Only shelfs and brackets that I've cad:ed myself.

After a couple of hours E stop started triggering again. When resetting and continuing cycle a couple of times uc300 looses connection with pc.

Frustrating!
Found a thread on cncdrive forum with a person with the same problem.
He changed his switches and got rid of the problem. Will disconnect mine tomorrow.
If that don't work I will try with other powersuplies.
If that don't work I will try with a new BOB :)

It's still a stretch as it feels like a software or maybe uc300 error!

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[Nr1madman]

Oh my..

Getting more and more frustrated!

Tried changing usb cable
Tried changing ribbon cable
Tried disconnecting all inputs and running without vfd.
Tried removing 24v psu and running 5v wires atleast 20cm from mains wires

Still get ext e stop @#$!!+&

Want to try new computer, wonder if the wife notices if I steal her laptop :)

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[A_Camera]

Hi Nr1madman,

Where in Sweden are you located? I have a UC300USB resting on the top of my PC, gathering dust. I only use it occasionally to test things, or to run Mach3 without the CNC, and of course, it is also a spare unit, since the base (motherboard) is the same as for the UC300ETH, so I want to keep it, but you can borrow that and see if it helps.

[Nr1madman]

Hi Nr1madman,

Where in Sweden are you located? I have a UC300USB resting on the top of my PC, gathering dust. I only use it occasionally to test things, or to run Mach3 without the CNC, and of course, it is also a spare unit, since the base (motherboard) is the same as for the UC300ETH, so I want to keep it, but you can borrow that and see if it helps.Sounds awesome :D

I'm located in Trosa just south of Stockholm.
You?

Before I'm going on a borrowing roadtrip I'm going to try with a new computer and if that don't work I will try running mach3 (a friend has a license) .
I'm not hoping that mach3 will solve this as I rather like uccnc :)
If all fails I will gladly take you up on your offer!

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[Nr1madman]

Alright.. extensive testing!

Bought a new usb cable. Needed atleast 1.3m long to connect it safely to my laptop. Only one I found was 2m long. Felt like a real gamble but I bought it anyway. Could not get a stable connection between the laptop and uc300 with this cable. Connection couldn't even be established long enough to configure uccnc..
Tried this cable between my usual computer and uc300 instead of the 30cm shielded usb cable I normally use and voila.. seems to be working?!?!
Tried for 4h and no problem so far.
I really hope this keeps up :)

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[A_Camera]

Sounds awesome :D

I'm located in Trosa just south of Stockholm.
You?

Before I'm going on a borrowing roadtrip I'm going to try with a new computer and if that don't work I will try running mach3 (a friend has a license) .
I'm not hoping that mach3 will solve this as I rather like uccnc :)
If all fails I will gladly take you up on your offer!

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I am located just outside Lund, so it is a long road trip... cheaper if Postnord does the trip. :) Anyway, only the motherboard can be used for test since the UCCNC license is based on the main CPU board. This means that the USB connector and the handling of communication and processing can't be swapped out.

[A_Camera]

Alright.. extensive testing!

Bought a new usb cable. Needed atleast 1.3m long to connect it safely to my laptop. Only one I found was 2m long. Felt like a real gamble but I bought it anyway. Could not get a stable connection between the laptop and uc300 with this cable. Connection couldn't even be established long enough to configure uccnc..

This is very weird. Even if some laptops can be tricky, I have never heard anyone having real serious problems. What sort of laptop is that?


Tried this cable between my usual computer and uc300 instead of the 30cm shielded usb cable I normally use and voila.. seems to be working?!?!
Tried for 4h and no problem so far.
I really hope this keeps up :)

Nice to hear that things start looking good, but I still think it is strange that you can't get it working with the laptop. Something is definitely not right, and to be honest, I don't think it it is the UCCNC software or that Mach3 would be the solution. Even if it would work with Mach3, I think that conclusion would be far fetched, so if you can't get it working with UCCNC then something is definitely wrong with your installation of software or hardware and not UCCNC itself.

[Nr1madman]

This is very weird. Even if some laptops can be tricky, I have never heard anyone having real serious problems. What sort of laptop is that?


Nice to hear that things start looking good, but I still think it is strange that you can't get it working with the laptop. Something is definitely not right, and to be honest, I don't think it it is the UCCNC software or that Mach3 would be the solution. Even if it would work with Mach3, I think that conclusion would be far fetched, so if you can't get it working with UCCNC then something is definitely wrong with your installation of software or hardware and not UCCNC itself.

I know! Its a Lenovo budget laptop about 1 year old.. not a mighty machine but it should still get a connection :) my guess is that it has to weak usb signallevel to handle 2m cable...?

I agree that it should not be uccnc thats misbehaving. More likely something in my dedicated pc thats acting up.. or simply some bad/loose connection somewhere. As I have tried without vfd running, without inputs and rerouted wiring to separate all low voltage cabling from drives and mains I don't really believe that it's "interference" oh well.
Testing will continue! Have lots of stuff to create :D


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[Nr1madman]

Further testing done.

Have not had any more problems since changing usb cable and usb socket in the computer.

I really hope that I have solved this now :D
Have a nightmarish 3d carving to try so I'm hoping it will work without hiccups :D

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[Nickhofen]

Nice!!!
Let us see it when it's done!

[A_Camera]

Very good to hear. USB is not very reliable so it is likely that you have now solved the problem.

[Nr1madman]

Update!

The machine ran for 7hours today with no fake stops. Feels amazing :D

Now I have to slowly reintroduce all connections with switches and vfd connections.
I'm hoping it will continue working ;)

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[Nr1madman]

Nice!!!
Let us see it when it's done!Will have to delay this, the carving is a present and the receiver might be reading this :D

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[Nr1madman]

Alright!
Seems like I have sorted the usb trouble I was having.
Turns out it's the usb connector on the uc300board thats slightly misbehaving.
If I keep the usb cable slightly stretched to the right to put small pressure on the usb socket everything runs fine.
I know this is a hillbillyfix but right now it's working. Am planning Ethernet in the future :D

On that note. Have bought a rs485 ethernetadapter following the tip from A Camera.
Which plugin should I use for uccnc?
Found both the HY plugin (have HY vfd) and modbusplugin?
Other than that it's overdue on some buildpics in the thread. Have none right now but have made some progress so I guess I should document them :D

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[Nr1madman]

Hey everyone!

Been away from mycncuk for about 6 months.. guess that all free time has gone to making chips and breaking bits :D

I havent done much to improve my machine exept upgrading from usb uc300 to ethernet.
I wish that I had taken everyones advice and gone that way from the beginning haha.. no connection issues since I swapped :)
I did try a z auto zero plate thingy but something is wrong with the offset. Measured my chinese touchplate and entered the height in the uccnc macro but when executing it gets the z zero a few millimeters to high so I have to find out why :)
Also made a primitive dustboot (yeeeah) its awsome!
Ordered the spindle speed controller thats discussed but havent installed it yet hehe

Other than that Im exited to be back here and want to see if there are new stuff being used by the members.. always fun to upgrade! :D

[driftspin]

Hey everyone!

Been away from mycncuk for about 6 months.. guess that all free time has gone to making chips and breaking bits :D

I havent done much to improve my machine exept upgrading from usb uc300 to ethernet.
I wish that I had taken everyones advice and gone that way from the beginning haha.. no connection issues since I swapped :)
I did try a z auto zero plate thingy but something is wrong with the offset. Measured my chinese touchplate and entered the height in the uccnc macro but when executing it gets the z zero a few millimeters to high so I have to find out why :)
Also made a primitive dustboot (yeeeah) its awsome!
Ordered the spindle speed controller thats discussed but havent installed it yet hehe

Other than that Im exited to be back here and want to see if there are new stuff being used by the members.. always fun to upgrade! :DHello Nr1madman

Good hear from you again.

Sorry to here about usb uc300 problems.

Post some pictures of your dustshoe!!

Grtz. Bert.


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[Nr1madman]

Hello Bert!
Good work with your machine.. great progress!

Im not sorry about the uc300 problems. Im sorry that I did not listen to all the gathered experience here and took a chance with a secondhand uc300usb :D

Will try to take a pic later today. Have promised the wife to be with the family today but Im trying to get some time to atleast grease the machine ;)

[Lee Roberts]

Welcome back to the forum guys it's good to see you again, I've been quite absent myself for far tooo long !