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Nr1madman
17-07-2017, 08:09 PM
Oi fellows!

Its time for me to finally start my own buildlog.
Will update as soon as something happens :encouragement:


Best regards
Mr madman

Nr1madman
17-07-2017, 08:14 PM
So.. restarted the frame!
My old welder died on me and from then to now all the steel got used for various purposes :)

https://thumb.ibb.co/cBDMxv/20170717_131407.jpg (https://ibb.co/cBDMxv) https://thumb.ibb.co/hQGwVF/20170717_131424.jpg (https://ibb.co/hQGwVF) https://thumb.ibb.co/jZ2LqF/20170717_131448.jpg (https://ibb.co/jZ2LqF) https://thumb.ibb.co/eG4dcv/20170717_145313.jpg (https://ibb.co/eG4dcv) https://thumb.ibb.co/eMgPHv/20170717_142032.jpg (https://ibb.co/eMgPHv)

This is where I'm at now with the new fra me :)

EddyCurrent
17-07-2017, 08:32 PM
Wow, in the space of 5 minutes, :hysterical:

"Its time for me to finally start my own buildlog.
Will update as soon as something happens "

(5 minutes later)

"My old welder died on me and from then to now all the steel got used for various purposes :)"

Nr1madman
17-07-2017, 08:37 PM
Hehe Im mostly surfing the forums via my phone and for some reason I can't create threads on this forum from the phone. Only reply.. Had to borrow my sons computer to create the first post :)

Nr1madman
19-07-2017, 07:38 PM
Continued with the frame today
https://image.ibb.co/d4sL9k/20170719_141537.jpg

Encountered the first mayor problem.
I've had the Z axis plates milled from steel. Because of some sloppy cadwork (had my calculations wrong) the Z axis rails had theire holes in the wrong place :(
Have drilled the hole's larger to get it together so will have to use nuts and washers to fasten the rails.

Have a feeling I will have to order a new plate :)
https://image.ibb.co/kYf7pk/20170719_141546.jpg

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 02:32 PM
The underside of the frame have gotten some paint and the epoxy experiment has begun :D
I framed the x rails with wood and sealed it to the steel with latex. Then I glued strips of masonit to get the right width of epoxy channel. 40mm wide for 20mm wide rails and 50mm wide bridge at the middle of the rails. Have just brushed on a small layer of epoxy to really get it tight with no leaks. Big pour will happen tonight or tomorrow!
https://image.ibb.co/gHZxuk/20170724_102202.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/i9gcuk/20170724_134423.jpg

Nickhofen
24-07-2017, 04:44 PM
You make it look easy!
What are the dimensions for this machine?

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 05:01 PM
Nickhofen thank you for your kind words!
The machine is 1200x960mm and work area around 900x600.. Im hoping for 150mm Z movement but I think I bought the wrong cablechain :D

Nickhofen
24-07-2017, 05:29 PM
You are my man, I try to build a cnc with similar dimensions but my cad abilities are below zero, sub zero, submarine etc....:witless:I will watch closely.
I have read yours and others guys builds in here several times and have take some good info, thanks for sharing,then and now!!!
What rails and screws are you going to use,stepper or rervo, can you give more info about your build ?

EddyCurrent
24-07-2017, 05:41 PM
Good luck with the pour, keep bubbles out and maintain a reasonable temperature.
I think it would have been a good idea to include some diagonal bracing on the frame; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6565-Ready-Steady-Eddy?p=52425#post52425

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 05:47 PM
Hehe we are the same on that regard! I train in cad as often as I can so that I may be able to do some magical stuff when the router is completed ;) I have two (soon three) small children so there is almost never time!

The router will have 20mm square rail on all axis. Sad to say I couldnt afford hiwin or THK. I went for Chinese copies :)
1610 ballscrews (2 for x axis) with special end machining to be able to take htd pulleys. I ordered 1605 for z axis but got the wrong one from China. Luckily I got full refund for it :)
Will use steppers, dual for x axis.

When will you start your build? ;)

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 05:51 PM
Good luck with the pour, keep bubbles out and maintain a reasonable temperature.
I think it would have been a good idea to include some diagonal bracing on the frame; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6565-Ready-Steady-Eddy?p=52425#post52425

Thank you Eddie! Your build was a great inspiration for me!
My support for the x axis beams are only 80mm long and when I have the gantry in place I will bolt a plate into the beams to stabilise everything ( I hope )

Nickhofen
24-07-2017, 07:13 PM
I had in mind to start it early at summer but the lack of ability to design at CAD and little free time push me to July and no cnc plans yet.
Here is the starting thread that is frozen...lol.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10873-Greetings-and-CNC-build-soon-to-start-advice-needed

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 07:37 PM
Pour complete! Besides shaky hands and a small hole to pour through it went awsome! No leaks (yet)
Found one bouble when I was done
https://image.ibb.co/nx8Suk/20170724_202018.jpg
Massaged it with a dentalstick :D

Im happy so far
https://image.ibb.co/jOS975/20170724_202504.jpg
Used the reactive resin stuff with Synamin slow cure.. I can't wait to take the dam off :D

EddyCurrent
24-07-2017, 07:45 PM
I can't wait to take the dam off

Wait at least 3 days, more if you can, get on with something else to keep your mind off it.

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 07:46 PM
I had in mind to start it early at summer but the lack of ability to design at CAD and little free time push me to July and no cnc plans yet.
Here is the starting thread that is frozen...lol.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10873-Greetings-and-CNC-build-soon-to-start-advice-needed
Aah I've read your thread! Hang in there!
I've been planning and replanning for 6 years.
Was going to build something like a JGRO. Then I was going to buy a Chinese 6040 and redo the motors and electronics. Then I was going to build a "joes hybrid". It was actually this forum that got me to change my mind from that idea :D So read and find what feels right for you..

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 07:48 PM
Wait at least 3 days, more if you can, get on with something else to keep your mind off it.
I was gonna wait 10-14 days.. now you opened my mind for a quicker development :D No worries.. I have a lot of work with my Z axis and no free time. Probable for the best hehe

EddyCurrent
24-07-2017, 07:51 PM
10 to 14 days sounds good, maybe I was too enthusiastic at 3 days :whistle:

Clive S
24-07-2017, 08:06 PM
I was gonna wait 10-14 days.. now you opened my mind for a quicker development :D No worries.. I have a lot of work with my Z axis and no free time. Probable for the best hehe

Yes don't be too quick at taking the moat out etc. min 7 days small bubbles come out with just flashing a hot air gun across the surface

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 08:15 PM
Haha I love being enthusiastic, makes life a little more fun!

Nr1madman
24-07-2017, 08:18 PM
Yes don't be too quick at taking the moat out etc. min 7 days small bubbles come out with just flashing a hot air gun across the surface
I hear you!
Won't touch the moat until I've somehow manufactured a drillguide for the linear guides. I think Neil made one that looks real good. Think I might copy the concept ;)

Nr1madman
26-07-2017, 06:55 PM
Been fooling around with my Z axis and did a quick fitment test. Looks like I should be able to lube the bearings without much fuss? And I need to buy larger washers before I can remake the Z dropplate in aluminium with the correctly placed holes for the rails :)
Should be a little lighter with 20mm aluminium then the current 15mm steel hehe
https://image.ibb.co/ksRsVQ/20170726_193356.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/kabRqQ/20170726_193427.jpg

Nickhofen
26-07-2017, 07:01 PM
Nice and beefy!:triumphant:

Zeeflyboy
26-07-2017, 07:03 PM
looks great so far to me! Quick progress too!

Nickhofen - honest question here, so please don't take it the wrong way, but what does one do with a CNC router/mill when one can't use CAD?

I can definitely recommend you download fusion360 and have a play since its free to use for hobbiest/startups earning under $100k. Fairly easy to get started with it and plenty of video tutorials on youtube and their own learning academy etc.

Nr1madman
26-07-2017, 07:20 PM
Nice and beefy!:triumphant:
Yeah :D
Kind of suprised that it moves so smooth!

Nr1madman
26-07-2017, 07:26 PM
looks great so far to me! Quick progress too!
Thanks alot!
But I don't know about quick, been collecting parts and stuff for a long time :)
But it's nice to finally start putting it together. Now I have to adjust either the ballscrew or the pulley to make it all fit. About 0.2mm from perfect fit then I can test my first motorized axis movement :D

Nickhofen
26-07-2017, 07:38 PM
Nickhofen - honest question here, so please don't take it the wrong way, but what does one do with a CNC router/mill when one can't use CAD?

No hard feelings my friend, what you said is so true.
I have download Autodesk 3ds Max free version and try to learn it, I do not know if it is better or worst than Fusion, I just dowload it because I have a frien that use it to make jewelery.

Nr1madman
26-07-2017, 07:47 PM
I use solidworks right now.. I find fusion a little confusing! I liked onshape also but it doesn't seem free anymore?! I might have done something with my account, wouldn't be the first time :D

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Desertboy
28-07-2017, 03:40 PM
Very nice work! I notice you have blue carriages on your linear rails what brand are they? Do you have a link where you got them?

cncmachineokk
28-07-2017, 04:22 PM
Have a nice day!
work now!
22405

Nr1madman
28-07-2017, 05:18 PM
Very nice work! I notice you have blue carriages on your linear rails what brand are they? Do you have a link where you got them?

Thanks!
The rails/bearings are the cheapest Chinese copies I could find. Company called noulei.. I ordered from aliexpress but have found them on ebay also. Didn't want to pay for expensive thk or even hiwin incase I don't use the machine much..
If I start making money with it I'm fairly cetrain that you will see a new build log ;)
Maybe I should find where I ordered from.. might have to order a new carriage as I have dropped a ball in one (saw the drop and tried to put it back but it could have gone in the wrong track ) and it's very juddery/stiff :(

Nr1madman
28-07-2017, 05:20 PM
Have a nice day!
work now!
22405

Hello!
Have a nice day to you also! What am I looking at? And why? ;)

Desertboy
28-07-2017, 05:37 PM
Thanks!
The rails/bearings are the cheapest Chinese copies I could find. Company called noulei.. I ordered from aliexpress but have found them on ebay also. Didn't want to pay for expensive thk or even hiwin incase I don't use the machine much..
If I start making money with it I'm fairly cetrain that you will see a new build log ;)
Maybe I should find where I ordered from.. might have to order a new carriage as I have dropped a ball in one (saw the drop and tried to put it back but it could have gone in the wrong track ) and it's very juddery/stiff :(

Good lad I'm utilising our Oriental friends for my build too ;)

Nr1madman
28-07-2017, 05:40 PM
Good lad I'm utilising our Oriental friends for my build too ;)Haha I've followed your build too.. I salvage what I can find as well but don't have your resources to sort through ;)

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Desertboy
31-07-2017, 09:27 AM
Haha I've followed your build too.. I salvage what I can find as well but don't have your resources to sort through ;)

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When it comes to cheap I took it to another level lol and bought these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-1500mm-2x-Linear-Guideway-Rail-4x-Square-Type-Bearing-Block-HIGH-REPUTATION/282574638774?_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D19c4859883c24f95b9 cae2796c95fde4%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%2 6sd%3D282574638774

The rest of my rails are original Hiwin's (2nd hand of course) but my gantry has these cheapo rails on them, they do feel lovely and just as nice as the original Hiwin's but lets see how they feel after a year of use ;)

Nr1madman
31-07-2017, 01:40 PM
When it comes to cheap I took it to another level lol and bought these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-1500mm-2x-Linear-Guideway-Rail-4x-Square-Type-Bearing-Block-HIGH-REPUTATION/282574638774?_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D19c4859883c24f95b9 cae2796c95fde4%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%2 6sd%3D282574638774

The rest of my rails are original Hiwin's (2nd hand of course) but my gantry has these cheapo rails on them, they do feel lovely and just as nice as the original Hiwin's but lets see how they feel after a year of use ;)Hehe when I look at those rails I get quoted 500£ for freight. Guess it was a bit cheaper for you. Got my 6 rails and 12 carts for less than that :)

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Desertboy
31-07-2017, 01:46 PM
Hehe when I look at those rails I get quoted 500£ for freight. Guess it was a bit cheaper for you. Got my 6 rails and 12 carts for less than that :)

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Free P&P to UK so £100, it'd be cheaper for you to ship them to me and then me ship them to you lol. £500 from Germany takes the piss.

I have a Swedish "friend" I say a friend in inverted commas because he gave us surstroming last time we saw him and so next time we meet him he is going to die ;)

Nr1madman
31-07-2017, 08:49 PM
I have a Swedish "friend" I say a friend in inverted commas because he gave us surstroming last time we saw him and so next time we meet him he is going to die ;)
I totally understand :D
If done incorrect it can be an lifechanging experience!!

Nr1madman
31-07-2017, 08:53 PM
Update time!
The epoxy has been curing for 7 days and I couldn't help myself.. started to take the moat off :)
It's stuck to the oiled masonit I used like.. well... glue :D
This will not be a enjoyable experience to clean up I think!
Will do it in segments and wait a few days more til I put the rails on and start torquing down with screws.
https://image.ibb.co/gthiQQ/20170731_203113.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/mN0WC5/20170731_213726.jpg

Desertboy
31-07-2017, 09:36 PM
I totally understand :D
If done incorrect it can be an lifechanging experience!!

I was In Lithuania with friends at the time and when opened it spewed some onto my mates rug which we had to bin after boiling it 3 times, I remember I vomited when they opened the can from the smell.

He kept telling us it was actually nice if served in a certain way but I didn't have any gasoline with me at the time lol.

Zeeflyboy
02-08-2017, 12:40 PM
How are the noulei rails?

I have some noulei ground ballscrews for a 3d printer project that I want to do after my CNC build. They look quite nicely made to be honest... the guy I bought all my HIWIN and TBI rails/screws from also had noulei stuff, it would have been quite a lot cheaper.

Some of the chinese stuff can actually be quite good. Admittedly some can be utter crap, but I've had far more positive experiences than negative in recent years.

Nr1madman
02-08-2017, 09:12 PM
How are the noulei rails?

I have some noulei ground ballscrews for a 3d printer project that I want to do after my CNC build. They look quite nicely made to be honest... the guy I bought all my HIWIN and TBI rails/screws from also had noulei stuff, it would have been quite a lot cheaper.

Some of the chinese stuff can actually be quite good. Admittedly some can be utter crap, but I've had far more positive experiences than negative in recent years.

Well I havent got much to compare to as this is my first machine build :)
But movement is smooth and no apparent play anywhere.
But on the drawings I recived and had my plates milled after said m6 for the 20mm rails. But m6 bolthead don't fit the rails X)
No biggie because I messed up the CAD for the Z dropplate anyhow so it has to be re done anyway.. Will go aluminium next time. 15mm steel feels OTT heavy ;)
The ballscrews look nice and feels good but I don't know if I like the vipers on the ballnuts. Time will tell if they hold up !

Clive S
02-08-2017, 10:49 PM
But m6 bolthead don't fit the rails X)

If you put the bolt in a battery drill and spin it against a grinding wheel for a few seconds they will fit fine

Nr1madman
03-08-2017, 06:31 AM
If you put the bolt in a battery drill and spin it against a grinding wheel for a few seconds they will fit fineYeah, got that advice from jazz also :)
Where is he by the way?
Would have done so if I only had put the holes in the right places on the plate hehe.
The thing I ment is that you should always measure the parts and not trust Chinese drawings!

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cncmachineokk
04-08-2017, 05:15 PM
Been fooling around with my Z axis and did a quick fitment test. Looks like I should be able to lube the bearings without much fuss? And I need to buy larger washers before I can remake the Z dropplate in aluminium with the correctly placed holes for the rails :)
Should be a little lighter with 20mm aluminium then the current 15mm steel hehe
https://image.ibb.co/ksRsVQ/20170726_193356.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/kabRqQ/20170726_193427.jpg

it seems to be sure.maybe it is produced at a very high real cost.

Nr1madman
04-08-2017, 07:16 PM
it seems to be sure.maybe it is produced at a very high real cost.Hello my friend! What is produced at a high cost? :)

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Nr1madman
05-08-2017, 01:07 PM
Huge milestone for me!
Have been filing down the epoxy miniscus, feels awsome :D
The sides of epoxy are still fluffy but I'm getting there..

First screw in the master X rail is in ;)

https://image.ibb.co/d1riga/20170805_135605.jpg

Now it's only about 20 left then I can measure out the final gantry width and order some extrusion YEEEAH!! :D

Nr1madman
05-08-2017, 08:13 PM
Had to try my X axis plates out on the rail. Feels awsome!
Now it's just waiting for a cool gantry ;)

https://image.ibb.co/dpxOEv/20170805_210102.jpg

Nickhofen
05-08-2017, 09:27 PM
It looks good !!! It is coming along nicely!

Nr1madman
08-08-2017, 09:23 AM
Small update!
The y axis plates seems to fit well :)
Also the Z motor looks good in its spot!
Have to wait for the gantry extrusions before knowing for certain if everything is super :D

As you can see I started to paint a few parts red. Looked like utter crap so I have started to sand it off again. Have been masking all bearing and mating surfaces off but how should I preserve these from wear? Just oil heavily before final assemble?

https://image.ibb.co/ms39Pv/20170808_100056.jpg

Nickhofen
08-08-2017, 09:36 AM
Use paint remover, it is faster and make the paint leave in flakes, so no dust to worry about.

Nr1madman
08-08-2017, 09:39 AM
Use paint remover, it is faster and make the paint leave in flakes, so no dust to worry about.Good idea ;)

Sanding is therapy for me so I might stick with it hehe.. anyway I just have to get it smooth so I can paint it again! And lesson learned, no more ultra cheap spray cans.

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Zeeflyboy
08-08-2017, 11:43 AM
what are the parts you are painting there made from?

In my experience aluminium doesn't massively like to be painted... generally found results were lacking unless an etch primer was used.

Needless to say, regardless of the metal type you need to be meticulous about degreasing first too. A good soak and scrub in hot water with either some proper degreaser or washing up liquid will help a lot with getting a lasting finish.

What parts are you worried about wear on? Mating surfaces shouldn't be moving really once assembled so I wouldn't be overly concerned about wear and tear on them.

Nr1madman
08-08-2017, 03:08 PM
what are the parts you are painting there made from?

In my experience aluminium doesn't massively like to be painted... generally found results were lacking unless an etch primer was used.

Needless to say, regardless of the metal type you need to be meticulous about degreasing first too. A good soak and scrub in hot water with either some proper degreaser or washing up liquid will help a lot with getting a lasting finish.

What parts are you worried about wear on? Mating surfaces shouldn't be moving really once assembled so I wouldn't be overly concerned about wear and tear on them.Well.. Im not really worried about wear.. more about rust :) The surfaces under the bearings should be okay since they are tight but when painting I mask of a little more then required so that I dont get paint in the wrong place ;)
The router will have its home in a shed I built in my backyard.
I will have some heat in there but it can probably get pretty moist in spring and fall.
All my plates are steel right now.
But because I made some mistakes on my Z dropplate and have to redo it I'm probably gonna do it in aluminium.

Good advice about the washing! Thanks..
Before I painted now I just scrubbed the parts down with an alkoholbased degreaser..

There are many things to think about when taking the leap and building yourself a machine! Sometimes it's hard not to forget some crucial step when you are progressing :)

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Nr1madman
10-08-2017, 08:59 AM
AAAaHHGrrr just broke a tap in a hole for my master rail on the X axis.. frustrating as hell!!

Clive S
10-08-2017, 09:27 AM
AAAaHHGrrr just broke a tap in a hole for my master rail on the X axis.. frustrating as hell!!look on it as a learning curve and not a frustration :positive:

Nr1madman
10-08-2017, 07:12 PM
look on it as a learning curve and not a frustration :positive:
You are correct as always :D
I have calmed down, bought a new tap and ready for new holes hehe

Zeeflyboy
10-08-2017, 09:13 PM
could be worse, could have snapped off flush with the hole....

Nr1madman
10-08-2017, 09:24 PM
could be worse, could have snapped off flush with the hole....Well.. what do you mean? I did just that? There will be no getting the old tap out and will have to skip a bolt in that hole?

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Zeeflyboy
10-08-2017, 09:47 PM
ah when you said ready for new holes with the new tap I thought your problem was solved so assumed the old tap was extracted!

Shame it's all steel, you could have dissolved the old tap if it was stuck in aluminium. I don't suppose you have suitable welding equipment to Tig weld something to the top of the tap?


edit - oooh, useful if it's a straight flute tap http://www.waltontools.com/products/remvtap.htm

double edit - some ideas here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZsjj7pqBXc

triple edit - cromwell have a nice selection of tap extractors https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/hand-tools/tap-extractors/03020107

Nr1madman
10-08-2017, 09:55 PM
ah when you said ready for new holes with the new tap I thought your problem was solved so assumed the old tap was extracted!

Shame it's all steel, you could have dissolved the old tap if it was stuck in aluminium. I don't suppose you have suitable welding equipment to spot weld something to the top of the tap?


edit - oooh, useful http://www.waltontools.com/products/remvtap.htm

double edit - some ideas here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZsjj7pqBXcI had a look at similar tapextractors today but they were only for standard taps with 4 straight grooves. My tap is the spiral kind..
So no go on the extraction ;)
Only have a stick welder right now and it's not really a good idea with the epoxy already applied :D
But I think it will be okey in the end anyway!

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Nr1madman
16-08-2017, 04:33 PM
New question!!
All you hiwin users get the sexy green dust guards to put in the rail screw holes. For my noulei rails I got red ones.. they have a really tight fit but no stops or nothing so they easily get pressed down into the holes.
Is it the same for hiwin?

Clive S
16-08-2017, 05:54 PM
New question!!
All you hiwin users get the sexy green dust guards to put in the rail screw holes. For my noulei rails I got red ones.. they have a really tight fit but no stops or nothing so they easily get pressed down into the holes.
Is it the same for hiwin?

whats wrong with putty :hysterical:

Desertboy
16-08-2017, 05:57 PM
New question!!
All you hiwin users get the sexy green dust guards to put in the rail screw holes. For my noulei rails I got red ones.. they have a really tight fit but no stops or nothing so they easily get pressed down into the holes.
Is it the same for hiwin?

My clone rails and my original rails never came with caps but mounting my rails at right angles so not so worried about them becoming fouled up.

Nickhofen
16-08-2017, 06:50 PM
My clone rails and my original rails never came with caps but mounting my rails at right angles so not so worried about them becoming fouled up.

Desertboy since you have use both Hiwi rails and some other similar, have you notice difference in quality? What about tollerance between rails and sliders ?

Desertboy
16-08-2017, 07:01 PM
Desertboy since you have use both Hiwi rails and some other similar, have you notice difference in quality? What about tollerance between rails and sliders ?

The rails feel identical between the originals and clone but the clone rails don't seem as high quality metal but that's really a gut thing only time will tell. Tolerance on the cheap rails seems spot on just as good as the originals.

The clone rail was £100 for 2* 1.5m and 4 carriages delivered! so I wasn't expecting it to be as good but it does feel real nice based on initial impressions I can see me buying more of the clone rail down the line for a plasma cutter table.

Nickhofen
16-08-2017, 07:09 PM
The rails feel identical between the originals and clone but the clone rails don't seem as high quality metal but that's really a gut thing only time will tell. Tolerance on the cheap rails seems spot on just as good as the originals.

The clone rail was £100 for 2* 1.5m and 4 carriages delivered! so I wasn't expecting it to be as good but it does feel real nice based on initial impressions I can see me buying more of the clone rail down the line for a plasma cutter table.

Thanks for the reply, can you point me a seller? Or anyone else can give info about a prompt seller.

Desertboy
16-08-2017, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the reply, can you point me a seller? Or anyone else can give info about a prompt seller.

Took me a while to find the ebay listing bastards have put them up £40 now! Wish I'd bought more of them but will keep an eye on them to see if they reduce the price again at some point.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-1500mm-2x-Linear-Guideway-Rail-4x-Square-Type-Bearing-Block-HIGH-REPUTATION/282574638774

They are out of stock but they are always out of stock lol not surprising at the price but they seem to restock monthly. If you're getting crazy delivery prices send them an email my friend bought a set to US and ebay was quoting him £500 delivery lol but when he contacted them it cost him $30 for P&P. They seem to sell out in a week after each restock so probably worth sending them a mail if your interested or you'll miss it.

It's free delivery to UK which is nice.

The price they have the plasma cutters up for
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUT50-Plasma-Cutting-Machine-Cutter-Air-Inverter-Digital-Display-Safe-Wise-CE-/401385186977?hash=item5d746be6a1

I think I will be buying 2 sets of 1.5m rails and the cutter from them but that'll be after Xmas more interesting things to build and do first ;)

Nickhofen
16-08-2017, 07:20 PM
Took me a while to find the ebay listing bastards have put them up £40 now! Wish I'd bought more of them but will keep an eye on them to see if they reduce the price again at some point.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-1500mm-2x-Linear-Guideway-Rail-4x-Square-Type-Bearing-Block-HIGH-REPUTATION/282574638774

They are out of stock but they are always out of stock lol not surprising at the price but they seem to restock monthly. If you're getting crazy delivery prices send them an email my friend bought a set to US and ebay was quoting him £500 delivery lol but when he contacted them it cost him $30 for P&P. They seem to sell out in a week after each restock so probably worth sending them a mail if your interested or you'll miss it.

It's free delivery to UK which is nice.

The price they have the plasma cutters up for
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CUT50-Plasma-Cutting-Machine-Cutter-Air-Inverter-Digital-Display-Safe-Wise-CE-/401385186977?hash=item5d746be6a1

I think I will be buying 2 sets of 1.5m rails and the cutter from them but that'll be after Xmas more interesting things to build and do first ;)

OK I will text them, 500 for delivery seems a little bit high, lol!

Nr1madman
23-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Small update :D

The extrusions for the gantry has arrived. YEEEAH! !

Have tried to paint a few parts and tapped alot so maybe there will be good progress from here ;)

Some pics below of test fit fitment.
Have not joined the extrusions in their L formation yet only screwed in the X plates
https://preview.ibb.co/ePrSSQ/20170823_112540.jpg (https://ibb.co/ickXu5)
https://preview.ibb.co/jgZQE5/20170823_112710.jpg (https://ibb.co/b6LbMk)
vårbilder gratis (https://sv.imgbb.com/)

Nickhofen
23-08-2017, 01:57 PM
Looks nice and beefy!!!

Nr1madman
23-08-2017, 03:14 PM
Looks nice and beefy!!!Well... I hope so ;)

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Nr1madman
27-08-2017, 08:02 PM
Small update!
Pimped my y axis a bit ;)
And a question.
My motors have filed down shafts for good connection with pulley setscrews.
Should I file a groove in the ballscrew or is it to hard to mark? :)
Don't want it slipping in action later...
This week I'm hoping to motorize my first axis.. have motors, drivers, pulleys and a license to uccnc. Waiting to get an uc300 in the mail :D Chinese BOB will have to do for testing (because I have it)
Still missing pulley belts but that might solve itself aswell hehe

https://preview.ibb.co/gadfmk/20170827_202401.jpg (https://ibb.co/imo2z5)

Zeeflyboy
27-08-2017, 08:21 PM
Generally the bits that have been machined (ie the ends) aren’t that hard as the case hardening is gone. I’ve never had any issue grinding a flat for a screw

Clive S
27-08-2017, 09:24 PM
Looking good have you drilled the plate for the spindle?

Nr1madman
28-08-2017, 06:32 AM
Looking good have you drilled the plate for the spindle?Yeah there are some holes prepared with m8 thread at the lower part of the plate.
Have to order the standard spindle clamp from ebay or maybe have one made ;)

The holes I made for the ballnut bracket are a little low on the plate.. don't really know what I was thinking when I drew that up :D

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Nr1madman
28-08-2017, 06:34 AM
Generally the bits that have been machined (ie the ends) aren’t that hard as the case hardening is gone. I’ve never had any issue grinding a flat for a screwAah thanks!
Will try to fix that then!
Just have to calculate final pulley hight so that I file the right spot ;)

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Nr1madman
13-09-2017, 01:29 PM
Small update!
I think there is smooth action going on..
https://youtu.be/KQl2zc84KsM
How do I embed youtube links? :D

Nr1madman
13-09-2017, 02:12 PM
One more thing.. I repacked my stiff linear bearing. I was right! There was one ball in the wrong track!!
Now it's smooth so when I get time I'm gonna mount my y axis aswell :D

Desertboy
13-09-2017, 02:24 PM
Small update!
I think there is smooth action going on..
https://youtu.be/KQl2zc84KsM

How do I embed youtube links? :D

click the insert video link it's next to the insert picture then paste the youtube link.

22783

Looking good there if it was me I push the gantry and it would fall off lol.

Nickhofen
13-09-2017, 07:37 PM
The video shows a nice move, you are close now !Put motors ,electronics ,spindle and ready to cut before Christmas,right?

Nr1madman
13-09-2017, 07:59 PM
The video shows a nice move, you are close now !Put motors ,electronics ,spindle and ready to cut before Christmas,right?I certainly hope so ;)
Im about to have another child soon so if it sleeps alot I might get lots of time in the shed with the machine :D

Feels like I'm all over the place with the build right now. Been working on bits and pieces of different axis at the same time as planning the electrical enclosure.
If I only focus I probably will get results faster.
Still have to buy toroid, spindle bracket, htd belts and 2 more motor drivers.
Oh! And a suitable screen for the pc.. preferably with some kind of swivel mount :D

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Desertboy
13-09-2017, 08:55 PM
I certainly hope so ;)
Im about to have another child soon so if it sleeps alot I might get lots of time in the shed with the machine :D

Feels like I'm all over the place with the build right now. Been working on bits and pieces of different axis at the same time as planning the electrical enclosure.
If I only focus I probably will get results faster.
Still have to buy toroid, spindle bracket, htd belts and 2 more motor drivers.
Oh! And a suitable screen for the pc.. preferably with some kind of swivel mount :D

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if it sleeps a lot.... So 2019 then lol ;)

Nr1madman
13-09-2017, 09:01 PM
Hahahaa you are probably right ;)
I'm betting on that my girlfriend will sleep for 6months after this pregnancy. So the baby's mood will be my problem. Is it legal with valium for newborns in UK? :D

Desertboy
13-09-2017, 09:10 PM
Hahahaa you are probably right ;)
I'm betting on that my girlfriend will sleep for 6months after this pregnancy. So the baby's mood will be my problem. Is it legal with valium for newborns in UK? :D

You need some
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum#History

We used to feed it to our kids to help them sleep lol, nothing like some opium to keep the young 'uns quiet.

Neale
13-09-2017, 10:08 PM
We used to feed it to our kids to help them sleep lol, nothing like some opium to keep the young 'uns quiet.
With one of my kids, you could take the lid off the Calpol bottle, hold it under her nose, and she would be out like a light for the night. With my son, you had to hit him with the bottle...

Nr1madman
14-09-2017, 06:57 AM
This is what I love with this forum. Sound advice!! ;)

Nr1madman
15-09-2017, 08:07 PM
It's time to ask for help.. this might drive me insane.

Been working on my Z axis.
The ballnut bracket didn't really fit under the dropplate. I could squeeze it in but it jammed in the ends so I took a file and sandpaper and reduced it about 0.5mm in hight. Now it slides perfect under the dropplate. When I then tighten the bolts that hold it to the dropplate the ballscrew turning becomes stiff and "juddery" in one direction. Smooth but with a little resistance in the other direction. Something must be crooked?
The ballnut is really smooth without load and I can pull it either direction to make the screw turn.. what should I check and do??

Zeeflyboy
16-09-2017, 05:22 PM
how did you file down the bracket?

I'd be worried that you introduced an angle on that, and when you then try to clamp it to the plate it is pulling the screw out of parallel.

Congrats on the imminent kid - I've just spent most of this week in hospital with my 5 week old :nonchalance: (he's fine now, gave us a bit of a scare and enjoyed a good long stay at hotel NHS). Difficult to work on the machine from a hospital room!

Nr1madman
17-09-2017, 06:43 AM
how did you file down the bracket?

I'd be worried that you introduced an angle on that, and when you then try to clamp it to the plate it is pulling the screw out of parallel.

Congrats on the imminent kid - I've just spent most of this week in hospital with my 5 week old :nonchalance: (he's fine now, gave us a bit of a scare and enjoyed a good long stay at hotel NHS). Difficult to work on the machine from a hospital room!

Thanks for the congrats ;)
Good to hear that you're kid is better! Its never fun to be at a hospital with small children..

I have calmed down and thought about this problem and I'm sure that you are right. Thought I was carefull with the file but you never know ;)
The bad thing about this is that it was my last stock of 20mm aluminium. Gonna screw everything apart and measure some and see if it's fixable otherwise I have to order some new metal. Maybe steel instead as the aluminium is actually feeling flimsy compared to all the steel on my machine ;)

Nr1madman
24-09-2017, 08:35 PM
Got some more work done :biggrin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH4P5EAhbLI

Zeeflyboy
24-09-2017, 09:26 PM
nice to see it's moving smoothly! did you sort out your screw binding issue?

Nr1madman
25-09-2017, 06:14 AM
nice to see it's moving smoothly! did you sort out your screw binding issue?Thanks ;)

Yeah the screw is working fine now. I found out that one of the screwholes in the ballnut bracket is a little off. Since I have to remake the Z dropplate anyway the easy fix was oversizing the mating hole for the crooked screw. 7mm instead of 6 was a winner ;)
Now I have to secure the dropplate or it will slide to far down!
Still waiting for the htd belts to arrive and I'm hoping the motor will hold it even powered down. How do you guys solve this issue? A block under z when the machine is powered off?

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Zeeflyboy
27-09-2017, 04:28 PM
All my machines have always held in position switched off.

If your Z is particularly heavy or you are using a longer pitch ballscrew I guess you need to think about either a counter balance of some sort (which will help your stepper out if the Z is particularly heavy) or some sort of lockout system to hold it up I guess.

Nr1madman
27-09-2017, 04:42 PM
All my machines have always held in position switched off.

If your Z is particularly heavy or you are using a longer pitch ballscrew I guess you need to think about either a counter balance of some sort (which will help your stepper out if the Z is particularly heavy) or some sort of lockout system to hold it up I guess.Good to hear ;)
I have 1610 screw for my Z. Ordered 1605 but got wrong pitch delivered. Full refund from Mr China man so I have compensated with pulley ratio to the motor.
I think my Z plate is several kgs in weight. 15mm thick steel around 160x 300mm big..
Will remake it in aluminium at a later date ;)
Really hope it will hold without dropping, have to see when the spindle bracket arrives!

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Nr1madman
11-10-2017, 07:21 PM
Okey.. electronics question coming up!
Planning on making a "standard" 68-70v diy psu.
Have a bridge rectifier already and waiting on 2x24v 500va toroidal transformer.
Found a bag of capacitators in my shed.
100v 1000uF each. Have around 20 of these.. have seen most of you use 3 or 4 of 4700uF..?
Okey to use these that I have?

If it sounds good.. how would I connect them? It's the round type with long thin legs for soldering to a pcb.. but there will be to much current for using breadboard or something like that..?
Thinking about stripping 1.5mm wire and twisting the capacitator legs around it and soldering in place. Then shrink-wrap for personal protection?

It will be a long row and lots of solder points... but I don't have to buy more parts for it ;)

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Clive S
11-10-2017, 09:22 PM
Sounds like a plan. You would need 3 rows of 5 all in parallel and tie them together with a big zip-tie

Nr1madman
19-10-2017, 01:52 PM
Small update.. as usual Im doing a little work everywhere :D
Made some adapter plates for bf/bk bearings.
Started soldering my capacitorbank aswell.. but no pics of that til it's finished!

When you work on the machine for 30-60mins per day it feels like nothing is progressing.. Wish I could get a whole day to spend on this ;)

Some pics for those who want to see..

https://image.ibb.co/ds7jMR/20171019_133402.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gcE9o6/20171019_132235.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/iZw0vm/20171018_103843.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/icvh86/20171018_103738.jpg

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Nickhofen
19-10-2017, 04:53 PM
Nice to see that you have make progress!
The extrusion you use has 10mm slots? From where did you buy the T nuts?

Nr1madman
19-10-2017, 06:01 PM
Nice to see that you have make progress!
The extrusion you use has 10mm slots? From here did you buy the T nuts?Nope!
I have 8mm slots with 40mm between the slots. That's why I had to make the adapter plates for the gantry. With 45mm extrusion the bearings could be bolted straight on.
Found this out to late in my planning.
Already had the side plates made.. ;)

One thing to do different with mk2 :D

I bought a bag of t-nuts from ali express.
They cost crazy money if bought locally in Sweden ;)

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Desertboy
19-10-2017, 07:02 PM
Nope!
I have 8mm slots with 40mm between the slots. That's why I had to make the adapter plates for the gantry. With 45mm extrusion the bearings could be bolted straight on.

The distance between BK12/BF12 fittings is 46mm they do fit but it's less than perfect, my gantry is fit like this. I made adapters for my bottom axis (With the proper 46mm spacing) and you can tell the fit is better.

23083 look under P

Personally if I build with extrusion again I will make adapters for all the BK/BF fittings. (A non issues for the Z of course)


T Nuts are expensive here I spent £45 on just over 100 to fit my Hiwin's.

Nr1madman
19-10-2017, 07:36 PM
T Nuts are expensive here I spent £45 on just over 100 to fit my Hiwin's.

Ouch! I bought 50 tnuts from aliexpress for around 10-12£ with shipping included.
Got no VAT either :D


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Nr1madman
25-10-2017, 11:16 AM
Got ahold of grease nipples for the ballscrews and lithium grease today.

Good news, the slides run much quieter and maybe a little smoother. The ballscrews are definitely quieter!

Bad news, the end seals on the linear bearings leak a bit of grease :( might just be that I tried to fit to much grease :D
I pumped once, slid the axis back and forth for distribution and then pumped again and got leakage. Normal or bad quality bearings?

Worse news, after greasing the ballnuts they spew out dirt and debrie from the seals unto the ballscrews. Should have cleaned them before screwing everything together!
It's not so many screws to dissasemble but the end bearings are pressed on and I don't have a proper remover (don't know the English word for it) damnit!

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Nickhofen
08-11-2017, 03:44 PM
Hmm Tap,tap...gouhh tap tap....anyone here!:courage:

Nr1madman
08-11-2017, 05:43 PM
Haha its slow going :D

My 4 weeks old son is taking all my time..!
Got some work done on my y axis.. might be able to get some shed time tomorrow and post something if you want? :)

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Nickhofen
08-11-2017, 06:26 PM
Nice for the son that say little not understanding words already, I now that the free time is too little over there,I am just teasing you since I do not have nothing better, about cnc stuff to do,lol!
And please post that Z axis work , since this is the most complicate work for me to do....haha.
Ps I spend two hours today at Airport customs ,grate experience ....:toot:

Nr1madman
11-11-2017, 12:37 PM
Small ghetto update today!

Made a bracket for my y axis.
Had forgotten to calculate with the adapter plates for the bearings that I made so I had to add a spacer :(

Also my aluminium stock is running low :D
Had to use 2pcs of 4mm thick aluminium for my bracket instead of the planned 10mm. The upside is that I could cut a hole through the first piece for the ballnut bracket to fit. Had planned to pocket into the 10mm piece. Now I didn't have to :)

Also I did a motormount for the Y motor.
Will revisit it sometime later with a file and some different screws ;)

And some pics

https://image.ibb.co/jQ4Oqw/20171111_130913.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gUzZxb/20171111_130938.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/jrHbAw/20171111_131123.jpg

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Nr1madman
11-11-2017, 01:27 PM
Nice for the son that say little not understanding words already, I now that the free time is too little over there,I am just teasing you since I do not have nothing better, about cnc stuff to do,lol!
And please post that Z axis work , since this is the most complicate work for me to do....haha.
Ps I spend two hours today at Airport customs ,grate experience ....:toot:Sorry about no Z axis pics today ;)
Just realised why all my holes for the Z axis rails were wrong. In the cad I got the outline of the holes instead of center of the holes. No wonder it did not work and I had to drill larger holes and use nuts instead of tapped holes.
Realised this is the same problem with my holes for the spindle bracket :(
Really have to remake the Z axis dropplate and make it work soon ;)

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Nickhofen
11-11-2017, 03:19 PM
Sorry to hear about the misalign holes mistake!

Nr1madman
11-11-2017, 03:44 PM
Sorry to hear about the misalign holes mistake!You know what.. it's actually okey!
Im not even mad about it (I usually am)
I put this down as learning ;)
To bad that it's a part that I can't remake myself but have to get cnc'd
I'm way to bad at marking and drilling holes accurate even if I order flat aluminium hehe

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Nickhofen
11-11-2017, 03:48 PM
That attitude is good, I like positive thinking something I want to keep under all situations...I hope to keep it at my cnc building too,lol!!!

Nr1madman
15-11-2017, 07:13 PM
Bought a supercheap dti with magnetic base and started checking my ballscrews as Im getting some binding and wobble.
After shimming some bk/bf bearings its much better. Still get some wobble as the screws are not quite straight. Or it might be the end machining...

Im measuring about 0.2-0.4mm of wobble in the different screws. Anything to care about?

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Nr1madman
20-11-2017, 02:23 PM
Progress!!

Not much done but it feels great to have mounted the spindle :)

Have misplaced a bracket I made for the cablechain.. Will have to make a new one ;)

https://image.ibb.co/dLPSdR/20171120_140004.jpg

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Nickhofen
20-11-2017, 06:07 PM
Wow it looks good!!!!

Nr1madman
20-11-2017, 06:09 PM
Wow it looks good!!!!Thank you :D

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Isaac
27-11-2017, 09:53 AM
Do you have any plans for this machine? Looks like a great machine so far :)

Nr1madman
27-11-2017, 02:10 PM
Haha thanks ;)
No plans yet.. have to make it work first :D

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Nr1madman
30-11-2017, 06:08 PM
Some questions for you all :)

Have had no time in the shed because of sick kids so no progress, only planning.
Thinking/planning the electrical stuff and think I have the normal stuff sorted out like psu and motors..

Question 1.
Enable signal to drivers.
Should you use it and why? As I understand it it's normal to skip it? Do understand that you can use it to clear driver errors if they should occur..?
If I should choose to connect them it's just 5v to ena+ and parallellconnect ena- to the enable port on the bob?

Question 2.
I have this Chinese bob
https://image.ibb.co/kag1jb/mach3_breakout_board_5_axes_cnc_breakout_board_wop tical_coupler_for_mach3_stepper_motor_drive.jpg

And I found a nifty schematic here on the forum. Think it was Jazz who posted it. It says how to connect the bob to the vfd to control it via software. On/off and rpm via 1-10v. Have the HY vfd so have to change parameters pd001 and pd002. It sounds good! Then I found this schematic from routercnc
https://image.ibb.co/hex2qG/tapatalk_1511815713547.jpg
Here he has buttons and relay to start/stopp and a pot for speed. This appeals to me as I love panel buttons but I want to have the software option as well :)
Is it possible to connect both kind of systems?

Question 3.
Was planning to follow a schematic from jazz for the general safety layout. Bet it's familiar to you all
https://image.ibb.co/bxXMZb/tapatalk_1511818717673.jpg
Then I found this from eurican (spelling might be off here)
https://image.ibb.co/jthYfG/tapatalk_1511816242127.jpg
Here he has a switch for the limit override and a buzzer so that he doesn't forget to reset it to limits.. is this safer than the momentary switch in jazzes schematic? Or just that you don't have to hold it in while jogging off the switch?

Thank you for your thoughts :D

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Nr1madman
01-12-2017, 06:38 AM
Will answer myself :D

Question 3, reread euricains thread and found the same discussion. (Maybe that's why I had the question from the start hehe)
So if you can reach it's better with button instead of switch so you don't forget!

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Nr1madman
05-12-2017, 05:26 PM
Another questions for you all!

Will have my pc in my controlbox.
Is it safe/okey/good practice to use 5v from pc psu or should I use the nice chinese psu that I have bought?

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Nickhofen
05-12-2017, 06:07 PM
I use to take the 5volts from my pc's USB port for my previous cnc and it still works fine this way, at the hands of his new owner.

Clive S
05-12-2017, 06:09 PM
Another questions for you all!

Will have my pc in my controlbox.
Is it safe/okey/good practice to use 5v from pc psu or should I use the nice chinese psu that I have bought?

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You don,t say what you want to use the 5V for!! or what psu you have bought. looking at the BOB that will need 5V and 12-24V to run the 5V could be got from the usb. Personally I would have a separate 5V PS.

Nr1madman
05-12-2017, 06:21 PM
You don,t say what you want to use the 5V for!! or what psu you have bought. looking at the BOB that will need 5V and 12-24V to run the 5V could be got from the usb. Personally I would have a separate 5V PS.Haha you my friend are correct :)

The only thing I got planned for 5v is the Bob and it's signals to the stepper drivers ( pul dir ena )
I've bought a 5V 2A psu and still thinking about using it. If I were to use the pc psu I don't think I would connect usb but get 5v from a Molex harness. That way it's straight from the psu and not through the motherboard. If that makes sense??

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Nr1madman
05-12-2017, 06:24 PM
I use to take the 5volts from my pc's USB port for my previous cnc and it still works fine this way, at the hands of his new owner.Good to know :)

It seems like a easy option.
I don't know why it's recommended to not use usb to power bobs.. If it's unreliable volt levels or if it's a grounding problem with loops or something?

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Desertboy
06-12-2017, 09:21 PM
Haha you my friend are correct :)

The only thing I got planned for 5v is the Bob and it's signals to the stepper drivers ( pul dir ena )
I've bought a 5V 2A psu and still thinking about using it. If I were to use the pc psu I don't think I would connect usb but get 5v from a Molex harness. That way it's straight from the psu and not through the motherboard. If that makes sense??

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That's how I set mine up.

Nr1madman
08-12-2017, 12:22 PM
That's how I set mine up.Leaning towards this aproach because pc psus are supposed to be stable!

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Nr1madman
08-12-2017, 12:23 PM
Small update!

Trial fit of some brackets for energychain.
Still need more paint on them but good fit :D

https://image.ibb.co/gBU35G/20171208_122655.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fKwGQG/20171208_114215.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/grQMsw/20171208_114207.jpg

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Nickhofen
08-12-2017, 07:52 PM
Looks good from here,why do you want to add more color- weigh on them...lol!

Nr1madman
08-12-2017, 07:58 PM
Looks good from here,why do you want to add more color- weigh on them...lol!Haha thank you!
Im a terrible painter, but I have to try to do better ;)

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Nickhofen
08-12-2017, 08:16 PM
I know someone who can help...lol do you know that guy? Most of painting memes and trols on Facebook here has to do with him!
23351

Nr1madman
08-12-2017, 08:56 PM
No idea who that is.. and I get the feeling I should be glad for it ;)

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Nr1madman
09-12-2017, 07:59 PM
More bracket power!
The cablecarrier gets crooked in the end.. but havent fastened all the bolts yet.
Need to shorten some so they dont stick out hehe
https://image.ibb.co/iX1mcw/20171209_203541.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/mHDoqG/20171209_200857.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/mhiA4b/20171209_204118.jpg

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Nr1madman
18-12-2017, 11:44 AM
Quick question?
Been making my cablechain brackets from 5mm thick steel angle (had it laying about)

Brackets for proximity swithes..
Ok to use 3mm thick aluminium brackets from unknown ali quality?
Guess they have to be resistent to vibrations?

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Davek0974
18-12-2017, 03:31 PM
3mm will be fine, the switches have no mass really so vibration will not be an issue.

Nr1madman
18-12-2017, 03:40 PM
3mm will be fine, the switches have no mass really so vibration will not be an issue.Thanks :)

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Nr1madman
21-01-2018, 09:39 AM
Not much happening at my end other than a question.

My steppers drives accept both ac and dc.
Is it worth it to do the rectifier and caps to get dc or can I just run ac directly and trust my cheapo drives to have enough capacitans to handle back emf?


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Clive S
21-01-2018, 09:49 AM
Not much happening at my end other than a question.

My steppers drives accept both ac and dc.
Is it worth it to do the rectifier and caps to get dc or can I just run ac directly and trust my cheapo drives to have enough capacitans to handle back emf?


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I personally would go down the conventional tried and tested route with a toroidal transformer and rectifier with caps.

Nr1madman
21-01-2018, 09:52 AM
I personally would go down the conventional tried and tested route with a toroidal transformer and rectifier with caps.Im leaning towards that route...
There is no way there could be thats big caps in the drives.. so I guess that if I go ac my toroidal transformer will get a beating? Especially since its a 500VA and not overspeced for my application?

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Desertboy
21-01-2018, 10:34 AM
Im leaning towards that route...
There is no way there could be thats big caps in the drives.. so I guess that if I go ac my toroidal transformer will get a beating? Especially since its a 500VA and not overspeced for my application?

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I considered using AC with my my AM882h's but when one of them blew and I replaced it I got an AM882 which is DC only.

I might be wrong here but I think if the drive is rated for AC you wouldn't need caps they're only there to smooth out the DC. That said it wasn't hard I was scared of the PSU build and yes I did blow one up ;) but it really was drill a couple of holes, bolt stuff on and solder 6 wires just double check you wiring and don't plug the wires into the rectifier the wrong way round.

Nr1madman
21-01-2018, 10:42 AM
I considered using AC with my my AM882h's but when one of them blew and I replaced it I got an AM882 which is DC only.

I might be wrong here but I think if the drive is rated for AC you wouldn't need caps they're only there to smooth out the DC. That said it wasn't hard I was scared of the PSU build and yes I did blow one up ;) but it really was drill a couple of holes, bolt stuff on and solder 6 wires just double check you wiring and don't plug the wires into the rectifier the wrong way round.Haha ;)

Well Im not scared of the process.. but I got a shitload of smaller caps so alot more than 6 solderpoints :D
Im about halfway through but I cant solder with any kids around.. they just have to touch everything ;)

I figured since the drives provide the motors with dc then some internal conversion must happen in the drives if using ac supply...?

Anyway.. it will look cool if I finish so I guess I will stick to the original plan!

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Nickhofen
21-01-2018, 08:46 PM
You must go with DC so I can copy the plans and make my DC power supply!:yahoo:

Neale
22-01-2018, 01:00 PM
If I had a drive with the option of AC input, I would go with that. It will have an appropriate internal rectifier/capacitor setup, and actually the capacitors do not need to be that big. You use bigger capacitors when the PSU is feeding multiple drives as you are smoothing with a bigger current demand, and it also provides a bit more isolation between drives so demand from one will not affect the others. Stepper drivers really do not need a very smooth supply voltage anyway - because of the way they work, they are pretty tolerant of supply voltage ripple.

Nr1madman
22-01-2018, 03:19 PM
All good points ;)

Nick you have loads of ppl to copy already :D

Neale, you might just have persuaded me ;)

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Nickhofen
23-01-2018, 01:59 PM
I know that Robert but I always seek for the latest version,lol!

Nr1madman
23-01-2018, 02:49 PM
I know that Robert but I always seek for the latest version,lol!Hahaha :D
You know to look for the latest stable version... right?

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Desertboy
23-01-2018, 03:23 PM
What drivers have you got?

Nickhofen
23-01-2018, 03:44 PM
:hysterical:

Nr1madman
23-01-2018, 04:24 PM
What drivers have you got?Im a cheap bastard (probably on the stupid side)
Got myself som 2dm860 chinastyle drivers..
They accept 80vac or 110vdc

Will se how they work ;)

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Desertboy
23-01-2018, 07:16 PM
Im a cheap bastard (probably on the stupid side)
Got myself som 2dm860 chinastyle drivers..
They accept 80vac or 110vdc

Will se how they work ;)

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Whatever works for you I was going to use an arduino and polou drivers originally glad I didn't lol. But they were cheap so I might well use them for laser cutter.

Given the price of a PP BOB the arduino really doesn't make sense and it's actually more expensive assuming you can get a PC for free for this task which I'm sure most of us can.

Zinci
30-01-2018, 11:42 PM
Just re-read the whole thread and I may have missed it again, but did not see how do you connect the two extrusions to each other? What is their size BTW?

Nr1madman
31-01-2018, 07:47 AM
Just re-read the whole thread and I may have missed it again, but did not see how do you connect the two extrusions to each other? What is their size BTW?I used 40x80 extrusion, most recommend 45x90 but this size was more availible for me.
If doing it again I would order 45x90 :)

Connected the profiles with t nuts in one extrusion. Then drilled through the other to be able to screw it together. Thought this would make a nice 90degree angle all by itself but I was misstaken! Have since loosened the bolts and retightened them while checking with a engineers square.. now I have a much better alignment!
Ofcourse the endplates help. Had them milled by a happy forummember with accurate hole placement for easy alignment.

Hope to get some free time soon to continue with the build ;) Christmas period has been hectic!!

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Zinci
31-01-2018, 09:13 AM
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for a great build.
Do you have space behind the ball screw, to put a L-bracket instead? Like in this Photoshoped photo?

23693

Clive S
31-01-2018, 09:43 AM
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for a great build.
Do you have space behind the ball screw, to put a L-bracket instead? Like in this Photoshoped photo?

23693

That's not necessary with the construction that is shown as the two profiles will be bolted together as have been mentioned by drilling the top profile in three places and fixing with tee nuts to the bottom profile

Nr1madman
31-01-2018, 10:24 AM
Had to do something today before work :D

What do you guys think about this?

Proximity for home, feelin the rail.
Mechanical switch for limit..

Good?

https://image.ibb.co/g3WSb6/20180131_091438.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fywFUR/20180131_091500.jpg

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Nr1madman
31-01-2018, 10:26 AM
That's not necessary with the construction that is shown as the two profiles will be bolted together as have been mentioned by drilling the top profile in three places and fixing with tee nuts to the bottom profileWhaaat! Three places is enough? :D
Think I did eight..

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Nr1madman
31-01-2018, 10:36 AM
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for a great build.
Do you have space behind the ball screw, to put a L-bracket instead? Like in this Photoshoped photo?

You know what, that might work but I think you would need a plate to join the fronts as well.. otherwise it might fold backwards?

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Nr1madman
06-02-2018, 06:59 PM
Micro update!

Got one of my x home switches in place.. just a trialrun for now.. have to paint the steel angle :D

But it works ;)

Tried the z home aswell.. big shock! It also worked haha

And the pics for the curious

https://image.ibb.co/mEjVkc/20180206_194259.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/m2whyx/20180206_194421.jpg

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wallyblackburn
06-02-2018, 07:56 PM
Nice! Where did you get your proximity switches? Do they work with non-ferrous metal too?

Wallace

Nr1madman
06-02-2018, 08:03 PM
Nice! Where did you get your proximity switches? Do they work with non-ferrous metal too?

WallaceThank you!

Got them from ebay, 5 for almost nothing :)
Not sure I got the right ones (npn,pnp) but hey.. will go with what I have for now..

Dont think they detect non-ferrous.. can try tomorrow if you want?

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Desertboy
06-02-2018, 08:07 PM
Thank you!

Got them from ebay, 5 for almost nothing :)
Not sure I got the right ones (npn,pnp) but hey.. will go with what I have for now..

Dont think they detect non-ferrous.. can try tomorrow if you want?

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Inductive sensors will detect aluminum but detection distance is roughly 1/2 they use them in 3d printers all the time for auto levelling the print bed.

Nr1madman
06-02-2018, 08:10 PM
Inductive sensors will detect aluminum but detection distance is roughly 1/2 they use them in 3d printers all the time for auto levelling the print bed.Huh!
Good to know ;)

I think I have a mountingplan for all my swithes now.. been brainstorming for a while ;)
Maybe I can rethink something with this new information ^^

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Nr1madman
07-02-2018, 01:21 PM
@wallyblackburn they did sence aluminium but only really close. Much closer then Im comfortable with in a switch :D

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Clive S
07-02-2018, 01:52 PM
@wallyblackburn they did sence aluminium but only really close. Much closer then Im comfortable with in a switch :D

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It would be better to attach a metal washer to a bolt for it to sense

Nr1madman
07-02-2018, 01:57 PM
It would be better to attach a metal washer to a bolt for it to senseYeah! I agree..
I tried it because wallace was curious and desertboy said it worked, not planning to use aluminium as sensory target :)
Have enough steel in my machine to make it work!

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Nr1madman
08-02-2018, 10:55 AM
Okey.. limitswitch for y axis!

Like an idiot I placed my 2 screwholes to tight so the boltheads wont fit :D
Will make a solution haha

https://image.ibb.co/dnPyOx/20180208_104103.jpg

The targets will be nuts drilled out to accept a m5 bolt since I only have m5 t nuts ;)

https://image.ibb.co/d49ZVc/20180208_104046.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/f4SA3x/20180208_104023.jpg

Will have to fit a washer in there aswell!

Y axis home switch is a pure example of "use what you have"
I know its like 5 parts to many for the function..

https://image.ibb.co/hFwL3x/20180208_104602.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gVB9wH/20180208_104611.jpg

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Clive S
08-02-2018, 12:35 PM
Like an idiot I placed my 2 screwholes to tight so the boltheads wont fit :D
Will make a solution haha

Stick the bolts in a battery drill and spin the heads them against grinder to make a smaller dia

Nr1madman
08-02-2018, 04:14 PM
Stick the bolts in a battery drill and spin the heads them against grinder to make a smaller diaCheers mate :)

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Nr1madman
18-02-2018, 07:57 AM
Woooh..

Moved my machine today to get better access to the side.
Need to mount one more ballscrew, motor, gantry sideplate, cable chain and sensors.

Its getting bloody heavy!!! :D

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Doddy
18-02-2018, 10:45 AM
I've seen a number of cases here where inductive/proximity switches are mounted to detect when an axis moves tangentially to the sensing face. In all the manufactures data that I've seen the advice is to mount the sensor such that the detected face is presented axially to the sensor. I'm guessing one issue with mounting the sensor tangentially is that it's clearly immune to damage due to crashing the axis into the sensor, but are there any negatives? (repeatability would be the one that springs to mind)

Nr1madman
18-02-2018, 10:52 AM
I've seen a number of cases here where inductive/proximity switches are mounted to detect when an axis moves tangentially to the sensing face. In all the manufactures data that I've seen the advice is to mount the sensor such that the detected face is presented axially to the sensor. I'm guessing one issue with mounting the sensor tangentially is that it's clearly immune to damage due to crashing the axis into the sensor, but are there any negatives? (repeatability would be the one that springs to mind)Well.. I have no clue if beeing honest ;)
I know jazzcnc did a lot of tests and came up with super accurate repeatability.. enough for my hobby needs atleast!
The problem with mounting them in line axially is that if you have a runaway axis it might actually overshoot the sensor due to inertia/mass of the axis.. then you have a crushed sensor ;)
I will try it this way!

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Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 11:13 AM
Help, advice, opinions wanted! :)

As Ive said before I'm planning on following euricains schematic for the controlcab.

The physical planning is not as well thought out :D

See quick sketch of lay out
https://image.ibb.co/ko5aAx/20180221_114802.jpg

Having the pc to the side like that.. good idea?
Can I mount just the base plate of the pc motherboard or is it a better idea to use entire pc chassis?
If it's okey with only baseplate will I need to get some kind of shielded mesh around the pc? Connected to star earth?

Same question about vfd? Okey to just have it there or does it need shielding?

All cables leaving the cab is cy..

The mains input will have two braces.
One with emi filter to vfd and one to all the psu:s
Thinking about dropping the 5v psu and use 5v from pc psu (raised this thought before)

The reason that I want to have everything clustered together is neatness and space saving. Also if I can avoid shielding and pc chassis I can have more centralised cooling and don't have to do separate cooling for pc..

Everything will be mounted on a steel backplate with metal sides (star earth connected)but maybe acrylic lid/front/door.. okey to do this?

Desertboy
21-02-2018, 01:22 PM
Help, advice, opinions wanted! :)

As Ive said before I'm planning on following euricains schematic for the controlcab.

The physical planning is not as well thought out :D

See quick sketch of lay out
https://image.ibb.co/ko5aAx/20180221_114802.jpg

Having the pc to the side like that.. good idea?
Can I mount just the base plate of the pc motherboard or is it a better idea to use entire pc chassis?
If it's okey with only baseplate will I need to get some kind of shielded mesh around the pc? Connected to star earth?

Same question about vfd? Okey to just have it there or does it need shielding?

All cables leaving the cab is cy..

The mains input will have two braces.
One with emi filter to vfd and one to all the psu:s
Thinking about dropping the 5v psu and use 5v from pc psu (raised this thought before)

The reason that I want to have everything clustered together is neatness and space saving. Also if I can avoid shielding and pc chassis I can have more centralised cooling and don't have to do separate cooling for pc..

Everything will be mounted on a steel backplate with metal sides (star earth connected)but maybe acrylic lid/front/door.. okey to do this?

I considered mounting motherboard in the controller box but decided against if I ever need to replace the PC it's going to be a lot of hassle so went with a seperate exterior solution.

Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 01:32 PM
Well.. I'm thinking that if I have pc baseplate and psu I can always change motherboard if I find that the pc is not up for it :)

JAZZCNC
21-02-2018, 03:17 PM
I've seen a number of cases here where inductive/proximity switches are mounted to detect when an axis moves tangentially to the sensing face. In all the manufactures data that I've seen the advice is to mount the sensor such that the detected face is presented axially to the sensor. I'm guessing one issue with mounting the sensor tangentially is that it's clearly immune to damage due to crashing the axis into the sensor, but are there any negatives? (repeatability would be the one that springs to mind)

Never been problem for me and I've fitted 100's. Repeatabilty is very good even with cheap prox switches. However I would say must use Steel for target and keep distance short for best results.

JAZZCNC
21-02-2018, 03:30 PM
Help, advice, opinions wanted! :)

As Ive said before I'm planning on following euricains schematic for the controlcab.

The physical planning is not as well thought out :D


Having the pc to the side like that.. good idea?
Can I mount just the base plate of the pc motherboard or is it a better idea to use entire pc chassis?
If it's okey with only baseplate will I need to get some kind of shielded mesh around the pc? Connected to star earth?

Same question about vfd? Okey to just have it there or does it need shielding?

All cables leaving the cab is cy..

The mains input will have two braces.
One with emi filter to vfd and one to all the psu:s
Thinking about dropping the 5v psu and use 5v from pc psu (raised this thought before)

The reason that I want to have everything clustered together is neatness and space saving. Also if I can avoid shielding and pc chassis I can have more centralised cooling and don't have to do separate cooling for pc..

Everything will be mounted on a steel backplate with metal sides (star earth connected)but maybe acrylic lid/front/door.. okey to do this?

Wouldn't have the VFD so close to the drives. I'd move all the Power in to same location as VFD and separate the BOB/Controller/Drives far away as possible.
Not fan of PC in the case because it's creating heat which kills drives etc but if you must then you really need think seriously about heat extraction.

To be honest unless you have exact dimensions then sketch like this never gives true picture so your better getting all the components together and lay them out on table and you'll quickly see best layout. Often it's little details like wire routing etc that lead you to best layout, you also soon see that you don't much space as you think you've got.!!

23792

Clive S
21-02-2018, 03:38 PM
Well.. I'm thinking that if I have pc baseplate and psu I can always change motherboard if I find that the pc is not up for it :) I would get all your bits together first and then lay them out, you will be surprised at the amount of space you need.
Pic of one of my control boxes. This one power the lathe and mill with mpg's etc
237932379423795

Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 04:03 PM
Wouldn't have the VFD so close to the drives. I'd move all the Power in to same location as VFD and separate the BOB/Controller/Drives far away as possible.
Not fan of PC in the case because it's creating heat which kills drives etc but if you must then you really need think seriously about heat extraction.

To be honest unless you have exact dimensions then sketch like this never gives true picture so your better getting all the components together and lay them out on table and you'll quickly see best layout. Often it's little details like wire routing etc that lead you to best layout, you also soon see that you don't much space as you think you've got.!!

23792

Cheers Jazz!
I have exact dimensions and have laid all the parts out. Can't take a pic right now because of sick kids. Wife will kill me if I make a venture to the shed :D
The box is 100x50x20cm.. It seemed roomy even with trunking and din rail and everything :)

Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 04:42 PM
I would get all your bits together first and then lay them out, you will be surprised at the amount of space you need.
Pic of one of my control boxes. This one power the lathe and mill with mpg's etc
237932379423795

Haha !
Clive it looks like you might have one cable to many in there!! Just kidding :)
How big are those? 60x60?

Clive S
21-02-2018, 04:48 PM
Haha !
Clive it looks like you might have one cable to many in there!! Just kidding :)
How big are those? 60x60?

No 50x50x20. I got carried away it was just for the mill at first then I added another two drives for the lathe etc etc. the pc is on the door with the monitor on the other side.

Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 05:13 PM
Just for the thought..

If I were to mount the vfd outside of the cab..
Separate mains connection with emi filter and still cy for the spindle..
How and what should I route between vfd and Bob? Cy? What I'm planning on using is software controlled start/stop and speed. So I'm guessing 4 core should do it?

Nr1madman
21-02-2018, 05:17 PM
No 50x50x20. I got carried away it was just for the mill at first then I added another two drives for the lathe etc etc. the pc is on the door with the monitor on the other side.

Well.. I'm impressed!
I would be seriously out of my depth shifting through all that. But I guess it's easier when adding one thing at a time with purpose in mind!

Nr1madman
11-03-2018, 12:00 PM
Help :D

How about this layout?

https://image.ibb.co/jzvQNn/20180311_125847.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fzxGTS/20180311_125548.jpg

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Clive S
11-03-2018, 12:35 PM
Don't forget the caps and rectifier for the toroidal PS

Nr1madman
11-03-2018, 12:44 PM
Don't forget the caps and rectifier for the toroidal PSIm actually gonna try ac for the drivers.
Changed my mind back and forwards but now I think I have decided :D

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Clive S
11-03-2018, 02:10 PM
Im actually gonna try ac for the drivers.
Changed my mind back and forwards but now I think I have decided :D

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Yes sorry, I forgot you was going with AC

Desertboy
11-03-2018, 05:03 PM
Im actually gonna try ac for the drivers.
Changed my mind back and forwards but now I think I have decided :D

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I take it they are AM882h's not just standard AM882 which are DC only.

3 of mine are AM882h's and one AM882 so I had to go the DC route.

JAZZCNC
11-03-2018, 05:19 PM
I take it they are AM882h's not just standard AM882 which are DC only.

3 of mine are AM882h's and one AM882 so I had to go the DC route.

They are Not Am882's.!!!

Nr1madman
11-03-2018, 07:55 PM
No they are not ;)

Had an amazing run in the shed today.

Really high hopes of seeing some movement soon :D

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Nr1madman
12-03-2018, 08:02 AM
The craziness has begun.

The psus are working.. thats good :)

With everything else Im just hoping to not see smoke :D

The wood parts and fuse holders are temporary. Just want to move forwards now

Nr1madman
12-03-2018, 08:03 AM
Oh.. forgot the pic!

https://image.ibb.co/nmmn3S/20180312_085635.jpg

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Nickhofen
12-03-2018, 08:09 AM
That's good! ....I do not see any smoke : P

Clive S
12-03-2018, 08:20 AM
That's good! ....I do not see any smoke : P

It's still in the drives waiting to get out:witless:

Nr1madman
12-03-2018, 08:22 AM
It's still in the drives waiting to get out:witless:Haha that's what scares me!

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Desertboy
12-03-2018, 08:39 AM
Oh.. forgot the pic!

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I see there M860's now, they're always black in the pics online. The 2 top ones look like my AM's the 2 bottom ones have funky cases lol.

23899

I don't see the h in the serial number sure you checked it all out already it'll be printed on stepper driver case but leadshine do a few drivers in DC and AC/DC flavours and it's the h your looking for.

JAZZCNC
12-03-2018, 09:47 AM
I don't see the h in the serial number sure you checked it all out already it'll be printed on stepper driver case but leadshine do a few drivers in DC and AC/DC flavours and it's the h your looking for.

You won't do because there not Leadshine drives they are Copies of the DM860. They are made by company called JMC the little M emblem gives them away.

Nickhofen
12-03-2018, 10:04 AM
It's still in the drives waiting to get out:witless:

Lol!!! Robert as you can see we are all to your side ready to help!!!

Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 09:53 AM
Small and tired update.

When I took this picture it made me question what the hell I am doing ;)

All wood parts will be replaced and used as templates...

https://image.ibb.co/f4sJVH/20180314_104504.jpg

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Nickhofen
14-03-2018, 01:53 PM
Nice,I like it the way you put everything in there!

Desertboy
14-03-2018, 01:55 PM
Between the PC Motherboard and the PP BOB (The red thing) what is that?

Lovely work ;)

Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 02:09 PM
Between the PC Motherboard and the PP BOB (The red thing) what is that?

Lovely work ;)Thats an uc300 motion controller. Sad to say it's the usb version. Got it real cheap from a forum user that didn't need it ;)

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Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 02:10 PM
Nice,I like it the way you put everything in there!Thanks Nick!

Hope it works well ;)

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Nickhofen
14-03-2018, 02:23 PM
Thanks Nick!

Hope it works well ;)

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It will!!!
Why you are not satisfied with the UC300 usb version?
Here at post#158 Jazzcnc explains why the usb version is better than the parallel one.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10911-1200mmX900mmX170mm-4axis-cnc?p=100655#post100655

Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 02:29 PM
It will!!!
Why you are not satisfied with the UC300 usb version?
Here at post#158 Jazzcnc explains why the usb version is better than the parallel one.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10911-1200mmX900mmX170mm-4axis-cnc?p=100655#post100655The usb version is more vulnerable to signal loss and interference than the Ethernet version.
Both are better than paralellport.

But I'm sure the usb version will work fine for my needs.. as I'm only running 40cm of shielded cable mounted to the motherboard it should work flawless :D

Now I have to research what other BOBs or relays I want/need for running extra equipment such as lights and dustvac and such :)

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Desertboy
14-03-2018, 02:34 PM
It will!!!
Why you are not satisfied with the UC300 usb version?
Here at post#158 Jazzcnc explains why the usb version is better than the parallel one.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10911-1200mmX900mmX170mm-4axis-cnc?p=100655#post100655

UC have a USB or ethernet solution, Jazz was comparing using a PC with PP for step generation. UC cards are step generators. It gets confusing because like me nr1madman is using a cheap PP BOB to connect to the steppers, switches etc.

but the connection to the PP BOB is running a lot faster than if it was a PC PP. A few people have warned that using that cheap board will limit upper performance but I was told you will be able to run at least 50khz per axis with that cheap board connected to a step generator if you need more you need a better breakout board. For my Mesa card it's £100 for the better BOB so I'm happy to use my existing BOB for now and 50khz is actually a lot depending how you set microstepping.

Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 04:52 PM
UC have a USB or ethernet solution, Jazz was comparing using a PC with PP for step generation. UC cards are step generators. It gets confusing because like me nr1madman is using a cheap PP BOB to connect to the steppers, switches etc.

but the connection to the PP BOB is running a lot faster than if it was a PC PP. A few people have warned that using that cheap board will limit upper performance but I was told you will be able to run at least 50khz per axis with that cheap board connected to a step generator if you need more you need a better breakout board. For my Mesa card it's £100 for the better BOB so I'm happy to use my existing BOB for now and 50khz is actually a lot depending how you set microstepping.And just to clarify (I have no clue)
If running 1600 microsteps and 10mm pitch screw with the standard 200steps/rev motors.. how fast will 50khz get me? :D

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Desertboy
14-03-2018, 05:20 PM
And just to clarify (I have no clue)
If running 1600 microsteps and 10mm pitch screw with the standard 200steps/rev motors.. how fast will 50khz get me? :D

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LOL I'm going to run 16 microsteps ;) so 100 times less

Jazz is the man to ask but I think

50000*60 == 3000000 pulses per minute /1600 = 1875 revolutions per minute I think, times that by pitch for distance.

Nr1madman
14-03-2018, 06:36 PM
LOL I'm going to run 16 microsteps ;) so 100 times less

Jazz is the man to ask but I think

50000*60 == 3000000 pulses per minute /1600 = 1875 revolutions per minute I think, times that by pitch for distance.Hmm... I might be over thinking this!

Maybe I was thinking about 1600 pulses so 8 microsteps per step.. have to rethink :D

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Desertboy
14-03-2018, 06:45 PM
Hmm... I might be over thinking this!

Maybe I was thinking about 1600 pulses so 8 microsteps per step.. have to rethink :D

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That's ok because I should have divided the last one by 200 ha ha ha forgot the steps.

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 10:01 AM
Alright.. now Im really really tired of wires :D

Got the pc working and installed uccnc sucessfully!! Makes me want to scream in joy!

As Ive said before Im following a schematic I found on the forum.
But in this schematic the limitswitches power a relay and this enables a signal to the bob.

Shouldnt the limitswitches be connected with the estop circuit and stop the main relay from latching?
That way the power would be cut if a limit is breached?

Otherwise the axis that hits a limit might continue if there is software malfunction?

Clive S
15-03-2018, 01:44 PM
Do you have soft limits as well? It's all debatable but hitting the limits say while jogging should not (in my opinion) be an E-Stop as it is not an emergency

Nickhofen
15-03-2018, 02:48 PM
Robert in the name of Odin, can you share the schematic, or point the thread? :-)

Davek0974
15-03-2018, 02:49 PM
Do you have soft limits as well? It's all debatable but hitting the limits say while jogging should not (in my opinion) be an E-Stop as it is not an emergency

This is why I would always recommend running soft-limits. IMHO the type of machine decides the limit system used - A stepper drive is safe if it runs away and hits a stop, the steppers will stall so I would forget limits altogether and fit a home switch plus soft limits, nothing more.

On a servo drive, mechanical breakage is very easy so i would fit hard limit switches wired to the servo power/estop circuit contactor, forget the software, just kill the power. Then fit a home switch and use soft limits to ensure you cannot jog into a limit, ever.

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 03:48 PM
This is why I would always recommend running soft-limits. IMHO the type of machine decides the limit system used - A stepper drive is safe if it runs away and hits a stop, the steppers will stall so I would forget limits altogether and fit a home switch plus soft limits, nothing more.

On a servo drive, mechanical breakage is very easy so i would fit hard limit switches wired to the servo power/estop circuit contactor, forget the software, just kill the power. Then fit a home switch and use soft limits to ensure you cannot jog into a limit, ever.Aha! Good reasoning :)
Then I feel safe with my steppers!
Limits to the bob only and no messing with e stop!

Thanks :D

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Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 03:51 PM
Robert in the name of Odin, can you share the schematic, or point the thread? :-)Haha I stole this one https://image.ibb.co/jthYfG/tapatalk_1511816242127.jpg

Mostly what I'm aiming for but slight modification.
Have routed the enable signal straight through the main relay instead of using two relays.
Have not understood the logic of using two relays yet..

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JAZZCNC
15-03-2018, 03:55 PM
UC have a USB or ethernet solution, Jazz was comparing using a PC with PP for step generation. UC cards are step generators. It gets confusing because like me nr1madman is using a cheap PP BOB to connect to the steppers, switches etc.

but the connection to the PP BOB is running a lot faster than if it was a PC PP. A few people have warned that using that cheap board will limit upper performance but I was told you will be able to run at least 50khz per axis with that cheap board connected to a step generator if you need more you need a better breakout board. For my Mesa card it's £100 for the better BOB so I'm happy to use my existing BOB for now and 50khz is actually a lot depending how you set microstepping.

There's more to it than just speed. Best way to I can relate it is to compare to HIGH end HI-FI Amplifier. You wouldn't dream of fitting cheap speakers to quality Hi-Fi because it would just degrade the sound and make it sound rubbish.

Cheap BOB is just like cheap speakers, your putting clean quality pulses in and the rubbish circuitry is degrading what comes out. Still comes out at same or similar speed but now it's all noisy and crackly.! . . . . Defeats the point of External controller..IMO.

The quality of the pulses you put into drive directly affects how smooth the motors work and it's clear to hear the difference when have bad setup.

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 04:01 PM
There's more to it than just speed. Best way to I can relate it is to compare to HIGH end HI-FI Amplifier. You wouldn't dream of fitting cheap speakers to quality Hi-Fi because it would just degrade the sound and make it sound rubbish.

Cheap BOB is just like cheap speakers, your putting clean quality pulses in and the rubbish circuitry is degrading what comes out. Still comes out at same or similar speed but now it's all noisy and crackly.! . . . . Defeats the point of External controller..IMO.

The quality of the pulses you put into drive directly affects how smooth the motors work and it's clear to hear the difference when have bad setup.Thanks!
That was a good explanation..
I guess that's why a good bob costs 50 times more :)

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JAZZCNC
15-03-2018, 05:44 PM
Haha I stole this one

Mostly what I'm aiming for but slight modification.
Have routed the enable signal straight through the main relay instead of using two relays.
Have not understood the logic of using two relays yet..

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Where did you find that because I'm sure that's one I've drawn up in the past for someone or modified version of it.! . . . . .Not bothered that you have it just curious where or how it got there.!

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 05:51 PM
Where did you find that because I'm sure that's one I've drawn up in the past for someone or modified version of it.! . . . . .Not bothered that you have it just curious where or how it got there.!Its in the forum, think the user is euricain?

I was thinking about using a much simpler schematic from you but this appealed to me.
Routercnc has posted a schematic aswell that I've studied. It too has advantages!
Since I'm feeding the stepper drivers with ac I dont need the bleeding resistor for the capacitance bank that routercnc had incorporated..

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Desertboy
15-03-2018, 06:59 PM
Thanks!
That was a good explanation..
I guess that's why a good bob costs 50 times more :)

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After reading Jazz's post I've took the plunge with a 7i76 BOB for my Mesa in the end it cost £140 delivered so that estimate was pretty close lol as my PP BOB cost £3.

http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=119

I'm sure UC must have equiv you might even be able to use this board lol.

For reference it's cost £250 for the complete mesa controller, pci card + bob with high quality cabling.

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 07:30 PM
After reading Jazz's post I've took the plunge with a 7i76 BOB for my Mesa in the end it cost £140 delivered so that estimate was pretty close lol as my PP BOB cost £3.

http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=119

I'm sure UC must have equiv you might even be able to use this board lol.

For reference it's cost £250 for the complete mesa controller, pci card + bob with high quality cabling.I'm sure the mesa boards are top quality but that would mean Linux?

Not for me my friend :D

Is fusion360 still free?
Seems like only for students now?

Tried estlcam now this evening and it seems basic but powerful !
Anyone tried it?
Or should I hold on with the software and focus on getting movement first ;)

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Desertboy
15-03-2018, 07:42 PM
I'm sure the mesa boards are top quality but that would mean Linux?

Not for me my friend :D

Is fusion360 still free?
Seems like only for students now?

Tried estlcam now this evening and it seems basic but powerful !
Anyone tried it?
Or should I hold on with the software and focus on getting movement first ;)

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They actually started making plugins for mach3 but never got past the beta phase it was working but the last posts on the mach forum are 5 years old so one would assume it's been abandoned. Given they had it working it seems a shame they didn't finish the work and bring it to market.

Fusion is still free
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-activate-start-up-or-educational-licensing-for-Fusion-360.html

It's annoying that the controllers don't support both linuxcnc and Mach3 it seems it's a case of supporting one or the other.

I totally get the linuxcnc thing you have to be a sadist to go this route but I've been a casual linux user since 2006 for 6 years I never ran anything else but when I got into cad I had to go back to windows. Also I grew up with a dos prompt so linuxcnc isn't quite so scary.

Now I have a couple of machines running linux and a couple running windows.

Neale
15-03-2018, 07:44 PM
Is fusion360 still free?
Seems like only for students now?


This (https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-activate-start-up-or-educational-licensing-for-Fusion-360.html)is a link to the current website - still looks to be free for "enthusiast" (home/hobby) use.

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 07:49 PM
Thanks to both of you :D
I must have clicked wrong to get to the educational license...

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JAZZCNC
15-03-2018, 08:15 PM
Or should I hold on with the software and focus on getting movement first ;)

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NO 100% NO the sooner you learn the Software side the better, both Cad/Cam and controller. Think of it like giving a Kid toy for Xmas without any batterys.
Nothing worse than having working machine then saying "Now what.!!!"

Nr1madman
15-03-2018, 08:32 PM
NO 100% NO the sooner you learn the Software side the better, both Cad/Cam and controller. Think of it like giving a Kid toy for Xmas without any batterys.
Nothing worse than having working machine then saying "Now what.!!!"Im actually starting to get some good results in solidworks for CAD.
Tried fusion before and will give it another try.. tried rhino aswell but that was hard!

For cam Im really liking estlcam. Played some with cambam but it's not working out like I plan ;)

Uccnc will be another thing! CAD and cam I can do indoor with the wife and semi communicate with her while learning. Uccnc is in the shed with the machine so any time spent "learning" will be time away from wife and kids. That's gonna be something to make up for :D

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Desertboy
16-03-2018, 09:26 AM
Im actually starting to get some good results in solidworks for CAD.
Tried fusion before and will give it another try.. tried rhino aswell but that was hard!

For cam Im really liking estlcam. Played some with cambam but it's not working out like I plan ;)

Uccnc will be another thing! CAD and cam I can do indoor with the wife and semi communicate with her while learning. Uccnc is in the shed with the machine so any time spent "learning" will be time away from wife and kids. That's gonna be something to make up for :D

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You need to be more annoying then your wife will send you to the shed to calm down ;)

Nr1madman
17-03-2018, 08:14 AM
Where did you find that because I'm sure that's one I've drawn up in the past for someone or modified version of it.! . . . . .Not bothered that you have it just curious where or how it got there.!Just wanted to ask, since it might be your schematic.
Why does the enable signal go through two relays? The coil of the enable relay is driven through master relay.. Why not take the enable signal straight to the master relay? ( I've done this temporarily now)

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JAZZCNC
17-03-2018, 09:24 AM
Just wanted to ask, since it might be your schematic.
Why does the enable signal go through two relays? The coil of the enable relay is driven through master relay.. Why not take the enable signal straight to the master relay? ( I've done this temporarily now)

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In all honesty I don't know. It's not something I would normaly do so maybe the OP added it. You certainly will be fine running it thru master relay.

The reason I think it's mine is because there are parts of it like the master relay which I drew and recognise. if you notice there are 6 contacts but it states 4PDT. However there are bits I don't recognise and wouldn't use, like that enable relay, so maybe I've helped someone with basic setup which I often do then they have added to it.?

Nr1madman
17-03-2018, 10:10 AM
In all honesty I don't know. It's not something I would normaly do so maybe the OP added it. You certainly will be fine running it thru master relay.

The reason I think it's mine is because there are parts of it like the master relay which I drew and recognise. if you notice there are 6 contacts but it states 4PDT. However there are bits I don't recognise and wouldn't use, like that enable relay, so maybe I've helped someone with basic setup which I often do then they have added to it.?Uhu!

Just got to thinking about enable.
Doesn't do very much to have it through master relay as the e stop already is in that loop.
Estop would cut power to drives so no point in cutting enable as well?

Will remove it :)

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JAZZCNC
17-03-2018, 10:56 AM
100886Just got to thinking about enable.
Doesn't do very much to have it through master relay as the e stop already is in that loop.
Estop would cut power to drives so no point in cutting enable as well?

Will remove it :)

To be honest I never use the enable on steppers unless I want to keep holding torque on motors. For instance in Limit situation
Limits are not an emergency situation so no reason to kill power to the drives but sometimes, like with a heavy Z axis, you will want to keep holding torque.
In this case I'd use the Enable in series with Limits.

Otherwise, I just don't use it because of not much point with steppers.

Nr1madman
18-03-2018, 03:16 PM
Sad and unsatisfied update!

Had 20mins over today so I ran to the shed.
Realized I read the connections wrong for the relays. Reconnected and got the master relay to latch with start button. And disconnect with e stop!

Problem 1. Something is wrong, when I e stop I kill power to 5v psu . This makes my uc300 disconnect from pc and a restart is required for uccnc to connect with uc300 again.
Will look over the wires and reconnect with 5v outside of that loop.

Problem 2. Red fault light is on at all 4 drives.
Guessing it has to do with the enable signal.. since its not over or under voltage (get 50.6v ac at drives they take up to 80v ac or 110v dc) and no holdingtorque so no over/under current. Have tried enable through bob aswell as running ena- straight to gnd.
This could have something to do with my bob aswell? The bob has a green led shining by the 12-24v sign. But a red led right by the 5v pwm text.. is this normal or is it a error?

And another question!
How do I know the port nr to use in uccnc?
Easiest to connect switch and watch in ports and pins whats flashing? :)

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JAZZCNC
18-03-2018, 04:06 PM
Go back to basics. Disconnect the enable wires and see if they come on.

Unless your 100% sure and confident that the schematic you have works it's always a good idea to wire in stages. Start with just powering up and seeing if latching system works and you have power to right places at the correct voltages.
Then start introducing things like enable or fault monitoring etc.

Ideally you should have written down all the I/O pin# your using and what's connected to those I/O #'s. Then when you have any trouble you can start tracing wires from that Pin# back to it's device. Makes trouble shooting so much easier.

Nr1madman
18-03-2018, 04:48 PM
Go back to basics. Disconnect the enable wires and see if they come on.

Unless your 100% sure and confident that the schematic you have works it's always a good idea to wire in stages. Start with just powering up and seeing if latching system works and you have power to right places at the correct voltages.
Then start introducing things like enable or fault monitoring etc.

Ideally you should have written down all the I/O pin# your using and what's connected to those I/O #'s. Then when you have any trouble you can start tracing wires from that Pin# back to it's device. Makes trouble shooting so much easier.You are of course correct :D
Will go back to basic when time is available!

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Nr1madman
20-03-2018, 01:09 PM
Im an idiot!

But a happy idiot :D

Got the drivers powering up WIIIHOOO!

Sad to say I did something wrong with the steppers. But after some old fashioned anger I found what I did :D
Have adjusted two motors and can now claim some kind of movement on x axis!
Two motors left to adjust and then I might be getting real movement! Yeah!!

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Desertboy
20-03-2018, 01:47 PM
Im an idiot!

But a happy idiot :D

Got the drivers powering up WIIIHOOO!

Sad to say I did something wrong with the steppers. But after some old fashioned anger I found what I did :D
Have adjusted two motors and can now claim some kind of movement on x axis!
Two motors left to adjust and then I might be getting real movement! Yeah!!

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The first movements on the first router builder are all the sweeter because it's when you get to see if you actually got it right ;)

Nr1madman
20-03-2018, 02:18 PM
The first movements on the first router builder are all the sweeter because it's when you get to see if you actually got it right ;)I didn't do it right but got it working after some anger and madness :D

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JAZZCNC
20-03-2018, 03:55 PM
I didn't do it right but got it working after some anger and madness :D

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It's called learning.!!. . . . Unfortunately, some learn in harder ways than others but it's all good fun.:thumsup:

Nr1madman
20-03-2018, 04:25 PM
It's called learning.!!. . . . Unfortunately, some learn in harder ways than others but it's all good fun.:thumsup:Yeah!
Wouldn't have happened without you all.
The people in this forum are amazing,
I'm not really there yet but thanks for all the help so far...

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Nr1madman
20-03-2018, 04:47 PM
If anyone have the same problem as I had with uc300usb and e stop then I think I found a fix.

I hadn't made an error connecting it but it had a jumper that controlled if it was powered via usb or external 5v.
I had it on usb supply apparently and this somehow got triggered by e stop (interference or current surge/dip?) Causing the controller to loose connection to uccnc.

Now I have tried it with power from stable 5v supply and nothing happens with the connection when e stopping, well except the pc senses e stop as it should :D


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JAZZCNC
20-03-2018, 06:19 PM
If anyone have the same problem as I had with uc300usb and e stop then I think I found a fix.

I hadn't made an error connecting it but it had a jumper that controlled if it was powered via usb or external 5v.
I had it on usb supply apparently and this somehow got triggered by e stop (interference or current surge/dip?) Causing the controller to loose connection to uccnc.

Now I have tried it with power from stable 5v supply and nothing happens with the connection when e stopping, well except the pc senses e stop as it should :D

That's USB for ya.!!. . . . Like Box Chocolates.?

Nr1madman
21-03-2018, 05:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3XrzJN_Wg

moooving :D

JAZZCNC
21-03-2018, 06:38 PM
Another one Lives. Well done that man.:toot:

Clive S
21-03-2018, 06:41 PM
It's always nice to see a machine move for the first time:thumsup:

routercnc
21-03-2018, 06:48 PM
Nicely done !

Nr1madman
21-03-2018, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the support! Couldn't have done it without you!!

Tomorrow I'm going to try to verify steps per mm , square the gantry with sensors :)
Dont think I will have time for all limits, all homes, cleaning up the cable jungle in the control cab.

Those things come later, I think spindle is next and then cutting something :D

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Nickhofen
21-03-2018, 06:59 PM
Well done man!!! Excellent work!!!

driftspin
21-03-2018, 07:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W3XrzJN_Wg

moooving :DLooking good !

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wallyblackburn
21-03-2018, 07:32 PM
Woohoo!!! Nice!!!

Desertboy
21-03-2018, 08:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqNcyFNMfLM

Nr1madman
22-03-2018, 12:45 PM
Okey, Im now in trouble again after mayor brainfreeze :)

Have routed my homeswitches.
I connected them in parallell.
Brown wire = 24v
Blue wire = gnd
Black wire = signal to bob

If I use this config I get 24v when measuring between black and blue.
If one switch gets close to steel they all light up and the voltage goes to 0 between black and blue.

If I use this paralell connection the bob gets supplied with 24v on the output pin?
Should I instead connect it in series ?
Can't get my mind around this :)

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