PDA

View Full Version : Insert Based Endmills



Chaz
18-07-2017, 11:52 AM
I am considering this. Cutwel are doing a 'free' holder if you order 20 inserts. Around 150 landed cost. Not cheap however this might be more efficient than buying endmills in the longer run.

https://www.cutwel.co.uk/milling-tools/indexable-milling/alpha-mill-system/alpha-mill-ams-s-series-end-mill/12mm-alpha-mill-end-mill-for-apmt06-inserts-korloy-ams-s-series

Thoughts? Suitability on a high speed spindle setup? From the supplied chipload per tooth, I should be pushing around 20K RPM and north of 6000mm/min (assuming I can power this much of cut).

Thanks

magicniner
18-07-2017, 12:23 PM
I assume you read this -

https://www.cutwel.co.uk/FileDepository/PDFs/ProductId%20-%2013737/203_Alpha_Mill.pdf

?

Chaz
18-07-2017, 12:26 PM
I assume you read this -

https://www.cutwel.co.uk/FileDepository/PDFs/ProductId%20-%2013737/203_Alpha_Mill.pdf

?

Nope, hadnt seen that. Will review.

My question was more around practicality / suitability and costs vs standard end mills (and not as much about S&F).

magicniner
18-07-2017, 12:45 PM
After you check the range of feeds and speeds in the document fit your requirements simply consider the insert replacement VS re-sharpening costs, the tools are great if they fit your machine's parameters.

Chaz
18-07-2017, 01:41 PM
After you check the range of feeds and speeds in the document fit your requirements simply consider the insert replacement VS re-sharpening costs, the tools are great if they fit your machine's parameters.

Thanks. I wonder if they are more resilient to mistakes or similar. Carbide clearly snaps, this might damage an insert, as long as the main holder remains undamaged / straight, it should be good to go with new inserts.

The idea of spending 150 and then not getting a lot of use from it worries my wallet. Of course, I am not expecting it to be idiot proof but its easy to make a mistake.

It would also be good if anyone that has gone down this route suggests its the best thing since sliced bread, its a waste of money or its just the same as buying endmills and replace them as they wear / break.

spluppit
18-07-2017, 11:32 PM
Chaz one of the most important bits of information is the material you are wanting to machine, you do not mention this in your post. What is the main material you wish to cut? I know you are also asking about drilling Mild in another thread. Is this the hope that can machine mild on your machine? These style of cutters need power to use even with high speed paths.

Don't forget Cutwel has a tech team. They should be able to help you with some power advice. Its worth asking if they have had any alpha mills returned they might let you try out, something they can be pretty accommodating with. I have several of these alphas they work is about all i can say, they are not outstanding or spectacular in my view but they work, I personally think that rpm on your machine with of these cutters will be a disaster, chatter city central, You may get a better results playing about but i think you will simply not have the torque to run is slow enough to cure chatter problems. I could be wrong, often it's trial and error even for people like me.

These modern cutters are very, very machine dependent. It's not unknown that you throw away the cutting data and start from scratch. Some cutters work better on certain machines than others for odd unknown reasons that you cant always quantify.

Also remember that these style of cutters can use a very negative rake edge styles with is very square and sometimes slightly rounded cutting edge, this means more power is needed. Positive rake= less power, negative rake= more power required. This is where solid carbide, Powder metal comes into its own with crispy sharp cutting edges.

I'm pretty well versed with the cutwel ranges and use a lot of them. You would be welcome to have a chat one evening and you can get a hands on user run down.

Chaz
19-07-2017, 07:54 AM
Chaz one of the most important bits of information is the material you are wanting to machine, you do not mention this in your post. What is the main material you wish to cut? I know you are also asking about drilling Mild in another thread. Is this the hope that can machine mild on your machine? These style of cutters need power to use even with high speed paths.

Don't forget Cutwel has a tech team. They should be able to help you with some power advice. Its worth asking if they have had any alpha mills returned they might let you try out, something they can be pretty accommodating with. I have several of these alphas they work is about all i can say, they are not outstanding or spectacular in my view but they work, I personally think that rpm on your machine with of these cutters will be a disaster, chatter city central, You may get a better results playing about but i think you will simply not have the torque to run is slow enough to cure chatter problems. I could be wrong, often it's trial and error even for people like me.

These modern cutters are very, very machine dependent. It's not unknown that you throw away the cutting data and start from scratch. Some cutters work better on certain machines than others for odd unknown reasons that you cant always quantify.

Also remember that these style of cutters can use a very negative rake edge styles with is very square and sometimes slightly rounded cutting edge, this means more power is needed. Positive rake= less power, negative rake= more power required. This is where solid carbide, Powder metal comes into its own with crispy sharp cutting edges.

I'm pretty well versed with the cutwel ranges and use a lot of them. You would be welcome to have a chat one evening and you can get a hands on user run down.

Many thanks, exactly the type of feedback I wanted. In my case, most of the machining is aluminium. Mildsteel is more out of potential necessity but not per design. Id probably be better off gearing the spindle down to do anything other than Alu / Plastics / Woods etc.

Let me know how best to contact you, would appreciate a few mins of your time.

Thanks

Chaz
19-07-2017, 07:55 AM
Actually, seen your website with some contact details, should I just use those?

Chaz
19-07-2017, 09:08 AM
I was doing further reading. The lack of ability to do any sidemilling is a concern. So anything where I may want to do a high DOC, shallow WOC (3D adaptive) means that this wont really work.

spluppit
20-07-2017, 03:17 PM
Hi Chaz,

Sorry Ive been busy. Yes you can use those details apart from the landline number, I'm hard to get on the landline as everyone uses the mobile these days. You can try me this evening at about 8 to 9 pm or pm me your number and i can call you... Take a look at the cutwell pro X and i think its pro A. There really is not one tool will do it all for the materials. The Alphas are really the wrong tool to be considering ally with. The pro x are a fantastic tool, these things really cut! They do the smaller pro A which i think would be more suitable... the rest i will cover on the phone later on


Regards,

Scott

Chaz
20-07-2017, 03:52 PM
Hi Chaz,

Sorry Ive been busy. Yes you can use those details apart from the landline number, I'm hard to get on the landline as everyone uses the mobile these days. You can try me this evening at about 8 to 9 pm or pm me your number and i can call you... Take a look at the cutwell pro X and i think its pro A. There really is not one tool will do it all for the materials. The Alphas are really the wrong tool to be considering ally with. The pro x are a fantastic tool, these things really cut! They do the smaller pro A which i think would be more suitable... the rest i will cover on the phone later on


Regards,

Scott

Thanks. Will PM you my number. Appreciated.

Boyan Silyavski
20-07-2017, 08:15 PM
These are all Chinese cutters available from Aliexpress. I have a couple and work nice, though mainly i use the aluminum inserts. In fact 99% of the insert cutters are rebranded Chinese ones, except in the case that is own production.

Another thing is that you could easily machine and produce a cutter like this up to your specification. Its not a big deal if not complicated surfacing heads. I am talking about the simple cutters.