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AlexDoran
02-08-2017, 04:30 PM
Hi All,

Just signed up this forum, i am currently designing a small (Large Desktop?) sized CNC Router for our business, it will primarily be used to machine 1mm Intumescent Fire Sheet, but also for producing one off parts for some of our older machines (Aluminium, Steel etc?). We have two much larger CMS Routers already that we use for production of which i create C Based programs for. I have a pretty sophisticated knowledge of building 3D Printers but this will be my first router, i had found this design online and really like how robust it looked:

https://jeremyyoungdesign.com/2016/05/26/diy-cnc-router-final-assembly/

So the design is heavily based on that machine.

So far it is looking to be built from the following:

Frame - Genuine Rexroth Extrusions & Connectors.
Gantry - 18mm Aluminium - Bespoke Plates, Would need to have these made (Pricey?!).

Low Profile L1016 Linear Rails & Carriages from Automotion Components - On all Axis

4NM Nema 23's on All Axis ( This Kit: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/CNC-Kits/Stepper-Motor-Kits/Stepper-Motor-Kit-4Nm-x-4-Axis-Nema23 )

Dual RM2010 Ballscrews on X Axis

Single RM2010 Ballscrew on Y Axis

Single RM1605 Ballscrew on Z Axis

Appropriate Fixed & Floating Blocks on each Axis.

Ebay / Chinese 2.2kw Water Cooled Spindle


So that is the rough spec of the machine currently, the main things i am concerned about so far are:

- Controllers - The motor & driver kit comes with a parralell breakout board, however i want the machine to be compatible with newer Laptops (Windows 10 x64), when building 3D Printers i tend to use Clone Smoothieboards, would these also be suitable for this CNC Build? They perform well and are cost effective, also have stepper signal breakouts.

- Endstops - Mechanical endstops are common practise on 3D printers, i see many Router builds done using proximity sensors or hall effect sensors, are any recommended for maximum repeat-ability?

- Resolution - Will the 10mm pitch and 5mm pitch provide me with a balanced resolution / speed combination, i was advised previously that 2005 screws on the X & Y might hold back achievable speeds - or that i might be disappointed with the feed rates they would achieve.

- The build this is based on uses Aluminium for the majority of the Gantry and Z Axis plates, would steel also be acceptable? I was worried about making he gantry too heavy.

- I was considering buying the ballscrews from china, if they arrived with runout evident, could they be straightened, or might they straighten out once fixed in position?

- Might anyone recommend a company / individual who cold produce the bespoke plates.

Any help / criticism / heads up on missed items would be greatly appreciated.

22441

Thanks

Alex

Nr1madman
05-08-2017, 02:53 PM
Hello! I don't have many answers to your questions but I can give you a big thumbs up!
Looks like you did good research and I'm fairly certain you will build an awsome machine!

Ballscrews with 10mm pitch is good for router speeds ie wood and plastics. If you were to use it as mill for steel and such then 5mm pitch is better.

If ballscrews are bent then maybe you could straighten it. Much worse if the end machining for the bearings are off center :)

Steel is good for gantry and plates as well as aluminium, you just don't have to use as thick stock!

Clive S
05-08-2017, 03:49 PM
Hi All,

Low Profile L1016 Linear Rails & Carriages from Automotion Components - On all Axis

4NM Nema 23's on All Axis ( This Kit: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/CNC-Kits/Stepper-Motor-Kits/Stepper-Motor-Kit-4Nm-x-4-Axis-Nema23 )

Dual RM2010 Ballscrews on X Axis
Single RM2010 Ballscrew on Y Axis
Single RM1605 Ballscrew on Z Axis

Appropriate Fixed & Floating Blocks on each Axis.

Ebay / Chinese 2.2kw Water Cooled Spindle


So that is the rough spec of the machine currently, the main things i am concerned about so far are:

- Controllers - The motor & driver kit comes with a parralell breakout board, however i want the machine to be compatible with newer Laptops (Windows 10 x64),

- Endstops - Mechanical endstops are common practise on 3D printers, i see many Router builds done using proximity sensors or hall effect sensors, are any recommended for maximum repeat-ability?

- Resolution - Will the 10mm pitch and 5mm pitch provide me with a balanced resolution / speed combination, i was advised previously that 2005 screws on the X & Y might hold back achievable speeds - or that i might be disappointed with the feed rates they would achieve.

- I was considering buying the ballscrews from china, if they arrived with runout evident, could they be straightened, or might they straighten out once fixed in position?

Any help / criticism / heads up on missed items would be greatly appreciated.

22441

Thanks

Alex

Welcome to the forum Alex.

Some comments: Kits of parts are never a good idea, I hope you have not purchased them yet.
Nema 23 4nm are overkill I would use and have done several times nema 23 3.1nm from the same source now then that kit is using a 36v power supply you really need about 68v to get the best out of the motors so build your own (look up Joe's excellent vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WISDqx-e23M ) go for AM882 drives from China as they have stall detection etc (you will need that if you are putting two motors on one axis)

Linear rails and ball screws can be got from Fred at BST bstlinear@gmail.com China very reliable guy.
Just email him for a quote and mention the forum. You may need to have the F length on the screw to be altered from standard 15mm say to 30mm to fit the pulleys Your screws are fine for what you want to cut.

Spindle again China be careful with the vfd as there are two types that look the same to the untrained eye. So post a link here before you buy.

proximity sensors are good and cheap about £3.50 china or ebay

Finally keep all your questions in one place then people can see what you are doing and chime in
Good luck with the build

Edit go for 20mm rails all round 15mm are fine but much harder to deal with.
Edit Just noticed the screws 20mm!! I would use 16mm all round but it depends on the length.

RobC
05-08-2017, 06:38 PM
Welcome Alex! I'd personally be rather worried about how the weight from the gantry is being applied to the X-axis bearing blocks at such an angle. I'm not sure if anyone else would share the same worry but It's certainly a great design! Now as someone who recently within the past two months purchased ball screws from china there is two things you need to know customs will sting you for import tax and the quality of the screws is fairly decent (20mm screws 5mm pitch).

RobC
05-08-2017, 06:45 PM
Also to some more of your questions. My gantry was built from steel and I've regretted doing it ever since. Far too heavy and aluminium would of done the same job with ample structural rigidity. Proximity sensors are much better than mechanical switches, break out board wise if it has a parallel port if you want to connect to modern computers just buy a UC100 connector and all your issues will be resolved but make sure it's the legit one and not a Chinese fake one otherwise it ain't going to talk.

I have got a post talking about my gantry on my build post if you want to see why steel was a bad choice by me.

paulus.v
05-08-2017, 11:10 PM
Welcome Alex! I'd personally be rather worried about how the weight from the gantry is being applied to the X-axis bearing blocks at such an angle. I'm not sure if anyone else would share the same worry but It's certainly a great design!

I'm not sure I understand what angle you refere to... If it's about the gantry weight distribution to the X axis glides assemblies, the answer is at a few SW clicks distance. Make sure you have set the actual material/ mass of the components then look at the center of gravity. It should be close to the center of the X axis bearing blocks assembly in the vertical plane perpendicular to the X axis.

RobC
06-08-2017, 10:00 AM
I'm not sure I understand what angle you refere to... If it's about the gantry weight distribution to the X axis glides assemblies, the answer is at a few SW clicks distance. Make sure you have set the actual material/ mass of the components then look at the center of gravity. It should be close to the center of the X axis bearing blocks assembly in the vertical plane perpendicular to the X axis.

Yes i was referring to how far out from the blocks the weight is being applied.

AlexDoran
07-08-2017, 09:37 AM
Hello! I don't have many answers to your questions but I can give you a big thumbs up!
Looks like you did good research and I'm fairly certain you will build an awsome machine!

Ballscrews with 10mm pitch is good for router speeds ie wood and plastics. If you were to use it as mill for steel and such then 5mm pitch is better.

If ballscrews are bent then maybe you could straighten it. Much worse if the end machining for the bearings are off center :)

Steel is good for gantry and plates as well as aluminium, you just don't have to use as thick stock!

Many thanks, i appreciate the advice, i will bear that in mind about the end machining i did not consider that before, only that they might be bent!


Welcome to the forum Alex.

Some comments: Kits of parts are never a good idea, I hope you have not purchased them yet.
Nema 23 4nm are overkill I would use and have done several times nema 23 3.1nm from the same source now then that kit is using a 36v power supply you really need about 68v to get the best out of the motors so build your own (look up Joe's excellent vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WISDqx-e23M ) go for AM882 drives from China as they have stall detection etc (you will need that if you are putting two motors on one axis)

Linear rails and ball screws can be got from Fred at BST bstlinear@gmail.com China very reliable guy.
Just email him for a quote and mention the forum. You may need to have the F length on the screw to be altered from standard 15mm say to 30mm to fit the pulleys Your screws are fine for what you want to cut.

Spindle again China be careful with the vfd as there are two types that look the same to the untrained eye. So post a link here before you buy.

proximity sensors are good and cheap about £3.50 china or ebay

Finally keep all your questions in one place then people can see what you are doing and chime in
Good luck with the build

Edit go for 20mm rails all round 15mm are fine but much harder to deal with.
Edit Just noticed the screws 20mm!! I would use 16mm all round but it depends on the length.

Hi Clive, thanks for the pointers! I have as you said decided not to buy the kit, the saving was insignificant and i did not want to be using that breakout board they were supplying anyway. I also questioned why they supply a 36v PSU with the kit, when you look at their higher volt PSU's it states that they are not compatible with the Drivers supplied in that kit...? Seems iffy to me, maybe the drivers are cheap and can't run at the stated specs. I will probably go for those drivers you have mentioned if they come with good recommendation.

Not sure i feel comfortable building my own PSU haha, i will try to find a higher quality alternative.

Ok so, when building my last 3D Printer i had used a chap on Aliexpress to provide me with the ballscrews and everything else associated with them. I compile a list of what i needed this time and first priced it from the UK, so i had a list of what i needed which was going to come to about £690 + Delivery here in the UK, went to aliexpress and returned to the guy who supplied me before and sent me this quote back:

2 x SFU2010- 1200mm with 2pcs nut with end machining=$42
3 x Set BK15 BF15=$24
3 x DSG20H=$6
3 x XB30x40-8x12=$8.46
1 x SFU2010- 712mm with 1pcs nut with end machining=$16.46
1 x SFU1605- 362mm with 1pcs nut with end machining=$10.2
1 x DSG16H=$1.21
1 x Set BK12 BF12=$6.22
1 x XB30x40-8x10=$2.82

Price is $117
Shipping costs is $100 by fedex to UK
Total is $217

Now i honestly could not believe how cheap that was, if i ordered today it would be £166. I got a price from another supplier on there and they quoted ~£340 delivered, would your guy be anywhere near this do you think? Even if they were bent there would be lots of room to play in terms of having them straightened at that price.

Spindle wise, i was going to go for this, unless someone has experience with another:

Click Me (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOT-HY-ER20-2-2KW-Water-cooled-Spindle-Motor-Spindle-2-2KW-Drive-Inverter-VFD-/263069290086?hash=item3d4026ce66:g:DDUAAOSwwE5WXS3 8)

Thanks for the other tips about the motors etc, i like overkill so i think i will stick with them in case of any future needs.


Welcome Alex! I'd personally be rather worried about how the weight from the gantry is being applied to the X-axis bearing blocks at such an angle. I'm not sure if anyone else would share the same worry but It's certainly a great design! Now as someone who recently within the past two months purchased ball screws from china there is two things you need to know customs will sting you for import tax and the quality of the screws is fairly decent (20mm screws 5mm pitch).

See Below


Also to some more of your questions. My gantry was built from steel and I've regretted doing it ever since. Far too heavy and aluminium would of done the same job with ample structural rigidity. Proximity sensors are much better than mechanical switches, break out board wise if it has a parallel port if you want to connect to modern computers just buy a UC100 connector and all your issues will be resolved but make sure it's the legit one and not a Chinese fake one otherwise it ain't going to talk.

I have got a post talking about my gantry on my build post if you want to see why steel was a bad choice by me.

Yes i like the idea of Aluminium so i think i will definitely go with that after hearing that, proximity sensors are good for me and they are cheap too so i will incorporate them.

I have found a controller that i think i am now going to use:

DDCSV1.1 Controller (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DDCSV1-4-axis-4-linkage-motion-controller-stepper-motor-and-servo-motor-NC-engraving-machine-CNC/32538034211.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.1dXjCA)

I like the idea of just being able to run files external from the laptop so if it's as good as some of the reviews say it is (for the money) then i will probably go with this. I also liked what this guy did with it:

Brainright (http://brainright.com/Projects/CNCController/)


I'm not sure I understand what angle you refere to... If it's about the gantry weight distribution to the X axis glides assemblies, the answer is at a few SW clicks distance. Make sure you have set the actual material/ mass of the components then look at the center of gravity. It should be close to the center of the X axis bearing blocks assembly in the vertical plane perpendicular to the X axis.

Ok, so the Axis is orientated as is to try and get the maximum workable area within that size of frame, i could have made it more central "looking" but in reality its not really central because on one end of the axis the spindle can reach past the machine, and on the other end you have a few hundred mm of area that you cannot reach, this is why i have tried to balance it and make the most of the space available. I'm nt sure of the weight of the spindle but this is obviously very important in order for Solidworks to calculate the centre of mass, i had read online that in general a 2.2Kw spindle will weigh in the region of 5Kg. So i set that as the mass of the spindle and run the evaluation, and it came out pretty well imo, more than acceptable to me, the linear rails and carriages im using are supposed to be high quality so im hoping that they will be fine:

22475

EDIT: Just realised that picture isn't so great, the Centre of Mass appears to be just in front of the left side carriage block, and it also shows a slight angular (right word?) pull, twisting towards the rear of the X Axis. Possibly i could move the right carriage block towards the middle some? This would seriously hurt my OCD of having them space equally.

Thanks Again for all the replies i've already learnt alot so keep that criticism coming :D

Alex

Clive S
07-08-2017, 10:27 AM
Not sure i feel comfortable building my own PSU haha, i will try to find a higher quality alternative.

One similar to this http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/electrical-products/power-supplies-43/linear-power-supplies/ps806-12-linear-power-supply.html

Re the spindle make sure it is the correct vfd check the picture and make also 4 bearings

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-COOLED-2-2KW-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER20-D80MM-AND-FREQUENCY-INVERTER-VFD-DRIVE-/261050649575?hash=item3cc7d4cbe7:g:lDkAAOSw0e9UtOr X

Re the controller will it home two screws with independent homing? Will it cope with full Gcode G2 G3 , canned cycles etc. What size gcode file can it handle? (I have no experience with these but they have been debated on the forum)

AlexDoran
07-08-2017, 12:13 PM
Hi Clive,

Thanks for the PSU link, says they are out of stock but i can look for a similar item based on that.

Sorry for my lack of education, what do i need to look out for when it comes to the VFD? What differentiates between the correct & incorrect one?

I am not sure about the independent homing, i will need to check that for sure, is this common practise for machines with multiple screws on one axis? Is this to ensure they stay parallel? I believe it can handle full GCode list, need to research canned cycles, apparently it can handle any file size because it reads from the USB stick as it goes.

Unconvinced with my result from the Centre of Mass evaluation i done, i got on the phone to Solidsolutions, who provide our solidworks license and also provide support, indeed i had done it incorrectly. Here is where the actual centre of mass is on the gantry. It's hard to see, but where it says "Point 1".

22476

Not sure how much of a problem this poses, are the carriages likely to be affected by this? Not how i might remedy this other than reducing the Gantry to a single 40x40 extrusion as opposed to 40x80 and then centralising over the Gantry Base Plates further. This in turn might affect how rigid the gantry is surely?

Thanks

Alex

RobC
07-08-2017, 12:19 PM
VFD's are rated for certain motors. So you might have a 2.2kw motor rating and such you will require either a 2.2kw VFD or higher but it's best to use the same rating. Now what I've been having issues with it my VFD has been nuisance tripping my RCD and thus now having a none RCD circuit wired in to my workshop to stop it due to the current load on startup. Also, go for a water cooled spindle, your ears will thank-you afterwards!

Rob

AlexDoran
07-08-2017, 12:37 PM
Hi RobC,

Ahh i see, that makes perfect sense, i just didnt know if there were different types that affected compatibility with other hardware. I have asked the seller a question about how many bearings it has. One thing i am curious about, and that i have done no research on, so am lazily asking you guys. The VFD's do you set their speed manually? On our CMS Machines at work we set all of the within the CAM program, its not a problem if this speed is set manually i was just curious.

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
07-08-2017, 02:29 PM
Sorry for my lack of education, what do i need to look out for when it comes to the VFD? What differentiates between the correct & incorrect one?

Ok look at this link it shows the difference in the types of the standard vfd. LOOK at the front of them that is the best way to tell they have a different layout you want the Huanyang inverter

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOP-2-2KW-INVERTER-3HP-10A-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-VFD-CE-QUALIT-/181737454601?hash=item2a50657c09:g:J0EAAOSwHnFVvvs m

Clive S
07-08-2017, 02:35 PM
The VFD's do you set their speed manually?You can do either but you have to change the parameters in the vfd I personally have fitted a 10K pot of the front of the vfd, this is very easy and the hole is already there. see this link http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7388-Fitting-a-pot-to-a-Chinese-Spindle-VFD?highlight=fitting

AlexDoran
07-08-2017, 02:44 PM
Hi Clive,

Thanks again mate, ok so the one i linked to originally should be good to go as long as they reply to my question about the number of bearings.

Just wondering now about the weight distribution on the gantry before i start ordering bits.

Thanks Again

Alex

Clive S
07-08-2017, 02:58 PM
I am not sure about the independent homing, i will need to check that for sure, is this common practise for machines with multiple screws on one axis? Is this to ensure they stay parallelIf you are using two screws and two motors you will have to use two home switches to make sure the gantry is put square every time you home.

You can of course use two screws with one motor and a belt driving both screws then one home switch will be fine.

The choice is yours as there are pro's and con's and much debate between the two types.

AlexDoran
07-08-2017, 04:13 PM
Ok, i need to do some serious research to see if that controller can handle that, i know it provides for 4 Axis but im not sure if the 4th can be setup as Dual Axis.

So i know i keep banging on about the weight distribution of the Gantry, but i really am being stupid today. It seems at some point i had lost all of the material properties for my assembly parts, ive just spent a little while going through and properly setting the weights of each component, i have based the Aluminium Plates on being a 6061 Alloy, whether or not this will be the material the plates are cut from i dont know, but it was the most common material so i though i would go with that, i re rain the analysis and it has given me a hopefully accurate Centre of Mass for the gantry, indicated by the Red Dot, im hoping this is a pretty acceptable balance and wont cause any undue wear or stress to the linear bearings:

22477

Thanks

Alex

Nr1madman
07-08-2017, 04:40 PM
Ok, i need to do some serious research to see if that controller can handle that, i know it provides for 4 Axis but im not sure if the 4th can be setup as Dual Axis.

So i know i keep banging on about the weight distribution of the Gantry, but i really am being stupid today. It seems at some point i had lost all of the material properties for my assembly parts, ive just spent a little while going through and properly setting the weights of each component, i have based the Aluminium Plates on being a 6061 Alloy, whether or not this will be the material the plates are cut from i dont know, but it was the most common material so i though i would go with that, i re rain the analysis and it has given me a hopefully accurate Centre of Mass for the gantry, indicated by the Red Dot, im hoping this is a pretty acceptable balance and wont cause any undue wear or stress to the linear bearings:

22477

Thanks

AlexI'm sorry to inform you that the fourth axis on the controller is only rotational and can't be slaved. Have been drooling over it myself but have to go another way as I'm using 2 motors for my X axis. Boyan runs it with two drivers on the same signal but because of that he lost the ability to home separately.

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Desertboy
07-08-2017, 04:58 PM
Hi I had KJN cut and drill my frame (With counterboring) which is a little cheaper than using the corners but also stronger. They will do it to your cad model, you could still use corners as well for extra strength.

Cost me £35 +vat for 18 holes with counterboring.

I already had the corners I did it for strength, I used m12 50mm A2 socket bolts.

22479

22478

A top tip if you do what I did make sure you get some corners then use them to get the extrusion straight before putting the bolt in when it's tight you can remove the corner and reuse.

Also 9045 extrusion takes M12!!!

AlexDoran
08-08-2017, 09:26 AM
I'm sorry to inform you that the fourth axis on the controller is only rotational and can't be slaved. Have been drooling over it myself but have to go another way as I'm using 2 motors for my X axis. Boyan runs it with two drivers on the same signal but because of that he lost the ability to home separately.

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

I see, i also had this answer in another thread, a couple of the guys thought that it should be fine as long as there are no major crashes and i have a method for adjusting the gantry to be tram.


Hi I had KJN cut and drill my frame (With counterboring) which is a little cheaper than using the corners but also stronger. They will do it to your cad model, you could still use corners as well for extra strength.

Cost me £35 +vat for 18 holes with counterboring.

I already had the corners I did it for strength, I used m12 50mm A2 socket bolts.

22479

22478

A top tip if you do what I did make sure you get some corners then use them to get the extrusion straight before putting the bolt in when it's tight you can remove the corner and reuse.

Also 9045 extrusion takes M12!!!

That's a good shout, i will be buying my Extrusion from KJN too, i have used them in the past! Are brackets alone not rigid enough do you think?

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
08-08-2017, 10:05 AM
I see, i also had this answer in another thread, a couple of the guys thought that it should be fine as long as there are no major crashes and i have a method for adjusting the gantry to be tram.



That's a good shout, i will be buying my Extrusion from KJN too, i have used them in the past! Are brackets alone not rigid enough do you think?

Thanks

Alex

Brackets are strong enough but bolts are stronger, cheaper and alignment is easier of course. Seemed to me a no brainer but you need to use 2 brackets with 4 T nuts to keep the beams straight whilst you bolt them tight then remove the corners.

What are you intending to use as a bed?

AlexDoran
08-08-2017, 11:05 AM
I agree with you, how did you go about organising the counter boring? Can they also thread the ends of the Extrusion?

For the machines main function (Routing the 1mm Interdens), i will simply use 18mm MR MDF, and use strips of double sided tape to hold the sheet and keep the cutout items in place after they are separated from the main sheet.

I will also drill the MDF and fit a grid of threaded nuts to use standard clamps / buy a machine vise for machining components we hope to make out of aluminium / bakelight / acetel.

Our larger CMS machines use vacuum pods, sometimes these suffer a nasty end if they happen to meet with a cutter :( I have machined them before on the smaller of the machines but i find it difficult to get repeat-ability in the jig i made to machine them. It will be much easier on this machine. The largest of the pods are 80mm Thick Phenolic Plywood so it will be a good challenge, i think i have enough Z Travel.

Here are some pics of the 2 Bigger Machines and an example of the Vacuum Pods. The Larger Through feed machine has a 3200 x 2000mm workable area (depending on which tool your using in the Horizontal / Arbitor A Axis), It has a 16 Space Carousel Tool Changer. It has a "5th Axis" which actually only controls the mobile vacuum pod row.

The smaller machine has 2600 x 1300mm workable area, 1 Horizontal / Arbitor Head - 8 Head Revolver (8 Motors Fitted with Tools, very fast tool change, mass production suited).

Both machines use an OSAI Controller, programs are generated from a CAM Package called DDX PowerCam - I write C Based Programs for Component Files, we use an Access Database where the guys in the office can build different Door Configurations (We make timber fire doors), Access exports a text file of parameters, PowerCam reads the text file and builds the CAM File autonomously, no manual drawing is ever done.

22488

22489

22490

22491

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
08-08-2017, 11:18 AM
I holed the extrusion cad model then emailed them the model as a .stp but you're using solidworks which they do so you can send them a solidworks file. Make sure the holes are the correct size lol, should be 13mm I think but check this they can tell you if you ring them.

As for counterboring just tell them to counterbore every hole on 1 side with the correct size head but again they will know this is a pretty standard operation. There's no need to model the counterboring.

Make sure your hole size is correct! I can measure the correct bolts with a vernier calliper but will have to wait till tomorrow.

You are using 9045 and 4545 extrusion? If so you will have the same issue I have if using BK12/BF12 ballscrew mounts the hole distance is 45mm between the tracks and the hole distance for the mounts is 46mm.

My Y axis I'm having custom mounts made for the gantry I'm just going to wangle the mounts into T nuts but did consider custom T nuts offset by 0.5mm. I still might have them made.

AlexDoran
08-08-2017, 11:33 AM
Ok i will ping them an email and ask how best to send to them, My extrusions are only 40x40 & 40x80, i have drawn up mounts that bolt to the Extrusion and then take the BK & BF15 supports. I will 3D Print these first to check how well they work, then have them machined or attempt to machine myself.

I THINK the 40x40 & 40x80 will take an M10 Bolt? Im not sure and im also not very clued up on the tolerances i should be putting on any the holes i have on the Build, at the moment through holes i have just allowed 0.5mm tolerance for the bolts to slide through - too much or too little?

I would have to check that through bolting into the extrusion would not interfere with the mounts for the bearing supports at either end of the X Axis, if so i will just have to use brackets.

22492

22493

Thanks

Alex

PS Any build log for yours?

Desertboy
08-08-2017, 11:47 AM
If you have to send the extrusion I would google and find a supplier closer to you they will almost certainly be able to cut and drill the same as KJN but without the cost of sending the extrusion. I thought you would buy the extrusion from KJN not already have it. I'm lucky I live down the road from them so it was easy to get everything sorted.

Country has many extrusion providers I would look for somewhere you can drive to to drop off otherwise it will be expensive with postage.

KJN are in Leicester, I am very happy with the quality of their work. BUT make sure you have everything specified first correctly because it will be expensive to correct later! I had an issue but I sorted it if I didn't live 5 mins down the road it would have been a big problem.

Click my sig, the budget went up a lot lol from when it started but we're getting there and I ditched the supported rail and belt drive for Hiwin's and ballscrews so was going to cost lol.

Any supplier of this extrusion will be able to cut, drill, counterbore and tap.

If you do want to send via post try myparceldelivery.com you can send 30kg's for just over a £10

AlexDoran
08-08-2017, 11:57 AM
Apologies, i have not bought it yet! Just what i planned to use. Your build looks like its progressing well, i was looking to pay nearly £700 for the ballscrews but my guy in China is doing them & the supports, mounts etc for $217 delivered!

Where do you get your fixings / bolts from? I commonly use ACCU Group, hundred of sizes, heads types and relatively cheap, annoying sometimes as some sizes / lengths have a minimum order Quantity, but they do usually turn up next day so its handy.

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
08-08-2017, 12:02 PM
Apologies, i have not bought it yet! Just what i planned to use. Your build looks like its progressing well, i was looking to pay nearly £700 for the ballscrews but my guy in China is doing them & the supports, mounts etc for $217 delivered!

Where do you get your fixings / bolts from? I commonly use ACCU Group, hundred of sizes, heads types and relatively cheap, annoying sometimes as some sizes / lengths have a minimum order Quantity, but they do usually turn up next day so its handy.

Thanks

Alex

I recovered a lot of fixings but I had to buy weird lengths so I used ebay.

When I finally finish the router and stop bleeding money I will make an order from alixpress getting a feel for the bolt sizes going to want. Already planning the next router lol but I also want to build a positive pressure vac former. I also toyed with a co2 laser cutter but need to be comfortable with the router first lol.

AlexDoran
09-08-2017, 12:37 PM
Just placed the order from China for my Ballscrews, Nuts, Supports, Mounting Brackets & Couplers. Total Price: £169.70

Delivery by FedEx so i hope they will be here next week or early week after. If anyone is interested in the store i got them from i used the Link CNC Store (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/834897?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Liok1a)

If you make a list a send him (Mr Shu) a message he will quote you a good price, cheaper than what his parts are listed as.

Thanks

Alex

AlexDoran
11-08-2017, 10:53 AM
Ok so i had a reply from the seller on ebay regarding the spindle and he has said to me that the spindle on has 3 bearings - the one he sells with 4 bearings is considerably more expensive. Does 4 bearings over 3 hold much of a difference in terms of robustness or would the 3 bearing suffice for my needs - can the bearings be changed in the future if they were to deteriorate.

Thanks

Alex

AlexDoran
22-08-2017, 02:15 PM
So my Ballscrews were dispatched from China last Thursday and arrived yesterday, upon first glance they look to be pretty decent (for £170 delivered!), none seem to be particulary bent compared to what i have seen in some threads / videos, the RM2010 screws seem to be slightly stiff but im hoping this will clear up once they are greased / run for a while.

Ballnuts, supports etc look pretty cheap but will do the job just fine.

Ordered the extrusion which should also be here this week and also all of the fixings.

3D Printing the aluminium parts to do a dry assemble, still waiting to hear back prices for the aluminium plates but wont order anything until i have assembled it using the plastic parts to check everything fits properly.

Alex

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AlexDoran
01-09-2017, 03:05 PM
Hi everyone,

The build is progressing slowly, mainly just waiting for parcels to arrive, i now have the extrusion and all of the bolts / fixings. I am struggling to figure out what my PSU requirements are, i was wondering if someone might be able to offer some advice?

I am using 4nm Nema 23's, and using Leadshine AM882 drivers from China.

This is the datasheet for the Motors i have:

PDF (http://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/Stepper%20Motor%20Nema%2023%2060BYGH401-03%204Nm.pdf)

Link for the stepper drivers:

AM882 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Leadshine-2-phase-High-precision-stepper-drive-AM882-fit-NEMA-23-34size-motor-work-36/783794956.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ZLT8AG)

Am i right in thinking that to get the most from the motors and drivers that i am going to need a 68 - 80v PSU? What amperage rating will it need to be? 20A+?


Again any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Alex

Clive S
01-09-2017, 04:27 PM
Am i right in thinking that to get the most from the motors and drivers that i am going to need a 68 - 80v PSU? What amperage rating will it need to be? 20A+?


68V with a 650 Va transformer. See Joe's excellent vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OoQQg76ar4&list=PL1FIADAKba_tiLqXbUkzD30sZjtp_VyqY

AlexDoran
01-09-2017, 04:38 PM
Hi Clive,

Many Thanks, just to clarify - that would be 68v & 650Watts? I am really not comfortable building my own PSU, and i cannot seem to find that spec one, so probably i will get two 500Watt PSU's at least then i know neither one will be high loaded, and the ones i am looking at nearly half in price if you buy more than one:


Power Supply (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HongPoe-S-500-68-Power-Supply-Economical-type-DC68V7-3A/655452533.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.80.A3HGzE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10 065_10151_10130_5490020_10068_10209_10192_10190_10 307_10301_10137_10303_10060_10155_10154_10333_1033 4_10056_10335_10055_10336_10054_10059_5470020_1033 2_100031_10099_5460020_10103_10102_10052_10053_101 07_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_5380020_10326_100 84_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113 _10114_10179_10312_10313_10314_10184_10078_10079_1 0210_10073-10333,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=8a8e2f31-3a45-41ca-a3fa-ed3df1acd402&algo_expid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc-11&algo_pvid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc&transAbTest=ae803_1)


What do you think?

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
01-09-2017, 04:43 PM
Hi Clive,

Many Thanks, just to clarify - that would be 68v & 650Watts? I am really not comfortable building my own PSU, and i cannot seem to find that spec one, so probably i will get two 500Watt PSU's at least then i know neither one will be high loaded, and the ones i am looking at nearly half in price if you buy more than one:


Power Supply (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HongPoe-S-500-68-Power-Supply-Economical-type-DC68V7-3A/655452533.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.80.A3HGzE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10 065_10151_10130_5490020_10068_10209_10192_10190_10 307_10301_10137_10303_10060_10155_10154_10333_1033 4_10056_10335_10055_10336_10054_10059_5470020_1033 2_100031_10099_5460020_10103_10102_10052_10053_101 07_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_5380020_10326_100 84_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113 _10114_10179_10312_10313_10314_10184_10078_10079_1 0210_10073-10333,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=8a8e2f31-3a45-41ca-a3fa-ed3df1acd402&algo_expid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc-11&algo_pvid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc&transAbTest=ae803_1)


What do you think?

Thanks

Alex

Have a look at the vid. They are easy to build and only require a transformer, rectifier, and 3 Caps. If you are going with a switch mode power supply you will need one a lot bigger to handle the back EMF.

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 04:44 PM
Hi Clive,

Many Thanks, just to clarify - that would be 68v & 650Watts? I am really not comfortable building my own PSU, and i cannot seem to find that spec one, so probably i will get two 500Watt PSU's at least then i know neither one will be high loaded, and the ones i am looking at nearly half in price if you buy more than one:


Power Supply (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HongPoe-S-500-68-Power-Supply-Economical-type-DC68V7-3A/655452533.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.80.A3HGzE&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10 065_10151_10130_5490020_10068_10209_10192_10190_10 307_10301_10137_10303_10060_10155_10154_10333_1033 4_10056_10335_10055_10336_10054_10059_5470020_1033 2_100031_10099_5460020_10103_10102_10052_10053_101 07_10050_10142_10051_10324_10325_5380020_10326_100 84_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113 _10114_10179_10312_10313_10314_10184_10078_10079_1 0210_10073-10333,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=8a8e2f31-3a45-41ca-a3fa-ed3df1acd402&algo_expid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc-11&algo_pvid=6bfe4443-3c63-435c-af1f-05f3829330fc&transAbTest=ae803_1)


What do you think?

Thanks

Alex

I'm going to build one on advice of Clive S (Also Chaz pointed out do it right!) but if I was to buy one I'd buy these

https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/power-supply/350w-60v-59a-115230v-switching-power-supply-stepper-motor-cnc-router-kits-s-350-60.html

UK shipping as well get one per motor.

Clive S
01-09-2017, 04:52 PM
I'm going to build one on advice of Clive S (Also Chaz pointed out do it right!) but if I was to buy one I'd buy these

https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/po...-s-350-60.html

UK shipping as well get one per motor.And I think you would be disappointed in the result and it will cost you double by the time you add duty etc.

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 04:57 PM
And I think you would be disappointed in the result and it will cost you double by the time you add duty etc.

No duty on that one Clive as long as you select UK shipping ($3 more) but you're probably right about the disappointed lol.

I found most the stepperonline stuff is available for either Germany or UK shipping so no import tax and quick shipping but unfortunately not the AM882's :(

I found them through CNCzone where they've been getting rave reviews from some of the purchasers.

AlexDoran
01-09-2017, 05:56 PM
In what way does the performance differ?? I was planning to use one 500Watt PSU per 2 Stepper Drivers?

If not could anyone link me to where I could get the parts to build one??

Cheers

Alex

Clive S
01-09-2017, 06:08 PM
In what way does the performance differ?? I was planning to use one 500Watt PSU per 2 Stepper Drivers?

If not could anyone link me to where I could get the parts to build one??

Cheers

Alex



https://www.rapidonline.com/50a-bridge-rectifier-metal-case-519318 1 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-hc2a478m35040ha-4700uf-100v-85deg-hc-snap-in-capacitor-11-3121 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep0882-p-35mm-nylon-capacitor-mounting-clamp-11-3004 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-625-225-625va-toroidal-transformer-2x115v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0034

Some people like 24-0-24v I generally use the above

Desertboy
01-09-2017, 06:21 PM
https://www.rapidonline.com/50a-bridge-rectifier-metal-case-519318 1 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-hc2a478m35040ha-4700uf-100v-85deg-hc-snap-in-capacitor-11-3121 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep0882-p-35mm-nylon-capacitor-mounting-clamp-11-3004 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-625-225-625va-toroidal-transformer-2x115v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0034

Some people like 24-0-24v I generally use the above

Thanks for the shopping list ;) Was looking for the previous post were you posted this for me but couldn't find it, this time going to order it tonight.

AlexDoran
01-09-2017, 09:48 PM
Thanks Clive,

This would presumably be the same output voltage as what the chap in the youtube video had? ~76v?

Certainly seems much cheaper even when you add in the plate to mount it on.

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
01-09-2017, 10:17 PM
Thanks Clive,

This would presumably be the same output voltage as what the chap in the youtube video had? ~76v?

Certainly seems much cheaper even when you add in the plate to mount it on.

Thanks

Alex
The voltage should be around 68-70V Depending on mains voltage at the time.
I think he measured it without a load on it

The chap in the video has a full build blog on here aka Mr Joe Harris

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 09:29 AM
https://www.rapidonline.com/50a-bridge-rectifier-metal-case-519318 1 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-hc2a478m35040ha-4700uf-100v-85deg-hc-snap-in-capacitor-11-3121 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep0882-p-35mm-nylon-capacitor-mounting-clamp-11-3004 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-625-225-625va-toroidal-transformer-2x115v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0034

Some people like 24-0-24v I generally use the above

I watched both videos now on building PSU I had a quick question he used 4 capacitors? You linked to 3 capacitors? Is this because the ones you linked to are more powerful? Or is there something else going on I don't understand.

I'm guessing the capacitors are just storing the energy to level out any surges? Is this correct?

AlexDoran
04-09-2017, 10:48 AM
Hi @Desertboy,


I remember you saying previously that you had ordered extrusion from KJN, out of interest did you need to tap the holes in the ends of the extrusion? I thought those holes were sized for an M10 thread to be tapped but they are too big, not sure if there is enough material there to get a M12 thread tapped. M11 seem expensive and the site where i have ordered my fixings from don't supply M11.

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
04-09-2017, 11:15 AM
Hi @Desertboy,


I remember you saying previously that you had ordered extrusion from KJN, out of interest did you need to tap the holes in the ends of the extrusion? I thought those holes were sized for an M10 thread to be tapped but they are too big, not sure if there is enough material there to get a M12 thread tapped. M11 seem expensive and the site where i have ordered my fixings from don't supply M11.

Thanks

Alex

Hi I was convinced they were M10's (You maybe got that from me) so holes I had drilled were too small in the end I widened them myself. I never tapped the ends I used M12 bolts and drove them in using an impact driver and stainless steel A2 socket caps was still hard work with the impact driver lol but only took 15 minutes just heavy on the hands.

I used the T nut 90° corners to assemble at right angles the frame before I drove the bolts in then undid the corners and moved on to the next piece to try and keep everything as straight as possible. This was especially important on the bed frame which wants to twist when you drive the bolts in.

I recessed the gantry into the aluminium which removed any twist when I drove those bolts, when I tightened the gantry mounts to the Hiwin carriages the gantry sat it fine without any bolts perfect fit this really made it a lot easier. In fact if you don't recess I doubt you could do it the way I did. I have a 5mm recess either side in 20mm tooling plate.

I think it turned out ok
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It could be done with a bar and a lever (I did a few like this) but it's very hard work. You could also drill the internal out with an the correct sized drill bit (Guessing 10.5mm or 11mm) then it'll be easier to tap.

In retrospect I should have had KJN tap it.

AlexDoran
06-09-2017, 02:53 PM
Hi Desertboy, your machine looks good, nice progress! I can now see why you did not tap the ends of the extrusion - what a f*cking nightmare! Fortunately KJN sent me two lengths of the incorrect extrusion that i quickly had a practice on, so the middle of the Extrusion is indeed a hole that is the correct size to tap an M12 thread in, HOWEVER as the diagram below, because the circle is within a square it makes it impossible to tap, once the thread has been cut into the circle material, it slips out and into the the 4 empty corners.

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I think i will do the same as you and drive the bolt in to get the thread... I'm worried now that there isn't enough meat there to provide a strong connection.

In other news, my spindle kit, steppers, stepper drivers arrived. Just waiting on the PSU's, controller and some other little bits before i start mocking the machine up.

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Alex

Desertboy
06-09-2017, 02:59 PM
Hi Desertboy, your machine looks good, nice progress! I can now see why you did not tap the ends of the extrusion - what a f*cking nightmare! Fortunately KJN sent me two lengths of the incorrect extrusion that i quickly had a practice on, so the middle of the Extrusion is indeed a hole that is the correct size to tap an M12 thread in, HOWEVER as the diagram below, because the circle is within a square it makes it impossible to tap, once the thread has been cut into the circle material, it slips out and into the the 4 empty corners.

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I think i will do the same as you and drive the bolt in to get the thread... I'm worried now that there isn't enough meat there to provide a strong connection.

In other news, my spindle kit, steppers, stepper drivers arrived. Just waiting on the PSU's, controller and some other little bits before i start mocking the machine up.

Alex

My profiles look different on the internal core.

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Both my 4545 and 9045 have the same internal core

http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/acatalog/45x45-Heavy-Aluminium-Profile-KJN990520.html#SID=29

http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/acatalog/45x90-Heavy-Aluminium-Profile-KJN990300.html

e2a, Ah I see you have 4040 extrusion

AlexDoran
06-09-2017, 03:06 PM
Ahh man what a nightmare not sure im going to be able to get this to work then, spoke to someone at KJN who said that they tap M12 on the ends all the time? Must be doing it on a mill surely?

Alex

Desertboy
06-09-2017, 03:13 PM
Ahh man what a nightmare not sure im going to be able to get this to work then, spoke to someone at KJN who said that they tap M12 on the ends all the time? Must be doing it on a mill surely?

Alex

They have a machine for tapping the ends with clamps it's done horizontally (They can tap 6m lengths), you could ring round some engineering places local to you shouldn't cost you much to have them tapped it's not a hard job with the right setup.

Or put a request up in the jobs section on here someone on here will have the right kit.

I think tapping machines spin very slow but with very high torque so you can't do it with a stand drill press or dewalt. Impact gun might work BUT you'll probably just break even the biggest and strongest taps. I've seen decent impact guns by Snap on break seized wheel nuts in 1/2 lol.

My dad's company repairs lorries so I have access to some beefy and expensive kit.

How I did though was plough the bolt in the first few mm to centre the extrusion then I bolted 90° corners with T nuts to keep the extrusion straight whilst I drove the bolts in tight. Then unbolted the corner and T nuts and moved to the next one.

This won't work for the gantry but because mine was recessed it wasn't a problem as the aluminium couldn't twist when driving the bolt in. So I think the gantry will need to tapped or you will need to recess the extrusion into the gantry mounting plate.

Maybe you make a jig to keep the extrusion straight whilst you bolt it in. I wouldn't stress too much this is a solvable problem a PITA maybe but every first router build has to have it's drama it's traditional.

I learnt my lesson on the next build I'm going to go round either Zeeflyboy's, Routercnc or Clive S's house and steal their router, Chaz is safe with Thor I don't have a crane and I think my pickup would snap in 1/2 lol.

AlexDoran
06-09-2017, 03:38 PM
Yep might just have to run them to the shop up the road and let them deal with it haha.

Thanks again for the info mate!

Alex

Desertboy
06-09-2017, 03:59 PM
Yep might just have to run them to the shop up the road and let them deal with it haha.

Thanks again for the info mate!

Alex

I've tried to be a real tight ass (Unsuccessfully) I originally wanted to build this for less than £300 lol so far it's costs just over £1500. What I was going to build would have been very rough lol, belt driven, single rail for the gantry nasty <£100 spindle and arduino driven. Glad I upgraded to Hiwin's all round, ballscrews, real electronics and PSU and 2.2kw spindle. I got real lucky this time unless I can find more machines to buy to scrap I won't be so lucky (Cheap) next time.

Next build I will try and be a bit more realistic with the budget from the start. I still have 2 * 1.3m SBR25 and 1*70cm rail and new bearings for a future project as well ;)

AlexDoran
06-09-2017, 06:54 PM
Well i threaded one of the extrusions, i started using the tap then drove the M12 bolt in after, not so great. Length is probably scrap now. Will run up the road tomorrow see if they can do it quickly.


Alex

AlexDoran
08-09-2017, 07:07 PM
Ok so bit of an update, i spoke to KJN and he gave me some tips on how to do it by hand and said that is best to use a Fluted Spiral Tap, managed to do the threads EASY and used the cordless drill to do it in no time at all, just goes to show with the right technique things are made easy!

However i am really pissed off with the M12 bolts i go from ACCU Group, they are A2 Stainless (55mm Long & 75mm Long), but they only thread 30mm of the bolt, this wouldn't be a problem if the un-threaded part of the bolt was smaller than the threaded part, i honestly don't see how you are supposed to use that bolt in any kind of normal application, i didn't order a bloody shoulder bolt, but that is pretty much what they supply, if you attempted to screw the bolts in, it simply squashed the thread in the extrusions. So i have had to thread the rest of the bolts myself - never again, they are just too tough!

On top of this, i ordered some M5 x 20mm "Precision Spacers" from ebay, well i will let the pictures explain:

22757

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22759

I dont have a lathe so what i decided to do was clamp each one in a pillar drill and drive it into sandpaper until the faces were square / true and they were the correct size.

22763

I began to mock up the router using the 3D Printed parts today, found a few things that need sorting already so im glad i went this route of the dry build first.

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One of the problems that really made rage was that i need longer spacers (yes the ones i painfully re-worked are no good LOL), the couplers are 5mm longer than the suppliers drawing of them, so i will need to source some longer ones and also longer M5 bolts to match.

Still waiting to hear back from a lot of useless engineering companies regarding prices and lead time for the aluminium plates, i noticed whilst scanning through a build the other day that a guy on here had supplied the aluminium plates for the build and they looked great - however i now cannot find the thread, can anyone point me in the right direction of someone on here who would be able to manufacture them?

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
08-09-2017, 07:48 PM
I ordered these, they were threaded to the end I ordered 50mm length (says 45mm is threaded but the whole 50mm was threaded)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M12-12mm%C3%98-CAP-SCREWS-HEX-SOCKET-ALLEN-KEY-BOLTS-A2-STAINLESS-STEEL-DIN-912/181356731939?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=480355904984&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

My gantry mounting plate thickness is 20mm but I recess into the aluminium 5mm so the bolts go 35mm into the extrusion it seems rock solid far far more so than when I assembled it with corners. I have enough corners to do it all without bolts and drilling but it just seemed to make sense to me that a big M12 35mm into the end is going to be stronger than a T nut and £35 drilling cost seemed ok given the hassle it would have been for me to line them up correctly. Having at least 1 (2 is better) corners with T nuts is very useful when you want to assemble it.

Desertboy
09-09-2017, 06:19 AM
She's looking real good there! What are you going to use as a bed? I'm going to use MDF for now but limits my ability to use oil misting if I cut aluminium. It's a cheap solution of course but I mostly want to process woods, mdf & ply down the line once I've bought some decent compression bits from USA. I see where you corner mounts are (Where the nema's mount on the Y axis) you left a little overlap which means whatever material you use for a bed if you cut it to the correct size will fit snugly in on gravity alone. I'm going to make mine a vac bed so I'm not going to bother to bolt my bed in T nuts in the extrusion but you could do for extra strength.

Are you going to mount her on the table in the picture?

AlexDoran
11-09-2017, 12:53 PM
She's looking real good there! What are you going to use as a bed? I'm going to use MDF for now but limits my ability to use oil misting if I cut aluminium. It's a cheap solution of course but I mostly want to process woods, mdf & ply down the line once I've bought some decent compression bits from USA. I see where you corner mounts are (Where the nema's mount on the Y axis) you left a little overlap which means whatever material you use for a bed if you cut it to the correct size will fit snugly in on gravity alone. I'm going to make mine a vac bed so I'm not going to bother to bolt my bed in T nuts in the extrusion but you could do for extra strength.

Are you going to mount her on the table in the picture?

Hi Desertboy, recessing the gantry extrusions into the side plates sounds like a solid idea, maybe i could incorporate it without changing too much as i have already ordered most parts (except the ally plates).

In terms of the bed, i was expecting to use two types (or maybe even 3), like you say - using MDF as a spoilboard for wood cutouts will likely be one of the methods. I had planned to use a similar method for cutting with misting / coolant, our vacuum pods on our bigger machines here use a Phenlolic Plywood and Bakelight / Tufnol ( Link (https://www.directplastics.co.uk/tufnol-sheet) ), its an expensive material and awful to work with but is very resilient and will be immune to blowing out like normal MDF / Plywood when exposed to moisture. I was planning to use 18mm thick, and machine for those hammer-in threaded nuts to give flexibility in terms of mounting clamps / vices etc.

My 3rd method might be to make a basic vacuum table for machining the 1mm thick interdens / intumescent, however i think a few strips of double sided tape will more than suffice.

Yes you are correct i left those angles to help align any bed i fit easily, i will probably fix it to horizontal extrusions but nothing overkill just 2 or 3 bolts per length.

You say you are ordering quality cutters from the states?! Are there no suppliers here? We use cutters from a host of manufacturers, Calibre, Titman, Trend, FUL to name a few. Our main supplier for most of our tooling is a company called Littlehampton Cutting Tools, their MD is a nice guy called David Viney, excellent service and usually get the standard 20% trade discount when buying Trend cutters etc.

Right now im kind of at a standstill while i try and figure out some more fine details and source some more parts, im looking to get new spacers to mount the Nema23's, however struggling to find M5 x 25mm Threaded Hexagon Standoffs, RS Components sell them but only in bags of 50 (I only need 12).

I also had a price back for the ally plates from a company called Berry & Escott Engineering - The final price was £2624 Inc VAT!!! Does this sound about right? I was only expecting them to be around £1000, and i had left off a few small items that i thought 3D Printed parts would suffice for, and that i would run them myself once the machine was going, i am still looking for the chap on the forum here who had made some plates for another build, still cant find it, if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great.

PSU's & DDCSV1.1 Controller turned up today, i thought the controller was advertised with a PSU but it hasn't arrived with one so i will need to find a cheap 18 - 32v one to power it.

Thanks

Alex

NB70
11-09-2017, 02:02 PM
I also had a price back for the ally plates from a company called Berry & Escott Engineering - The final price was £2624 Inc VAT!!!

You could try posting a request for a quote here - RFQ (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/194-Projects-Jobs-Requests). I know there are a few people here who have helped out others by making the aluminium plates for gantry sides & z-axis.

Clive S
11-09-2017, 02:13 PM
i am still looking for the chap on the forum here who had made some plates for another build, still cant find it, if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great.

Is this what you are looking for:- post 119


http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880-New-build-with-recycled-parts-on-a-ridiculous-budget-120cm%2A60cm-work-area?p=94311#post94311

AlexDoran
11-09-2017, 02:44 PM
You could try posting a request for a quote here - RFQ (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/194-Projects-Jobs-Requests). I know there are a few people here who have helped out others by making the aluminium plates for gantry sides & z-axis.

I will make a post, thank you.


Is this what you are looking for:- post 119


http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880-New-build-with-recycled-parts-on-a-ridiculous-budget-120cm%2A60cm-work-area?p=94311#post94311


That must be the one! Those plates look fantastic, i guess i will approach Chaz and see if he would be willing to give me a quote. Thanks for the link Clive.

Out of interest, i wondered if some of you more experienced members might have 5 minutes to spare, to take a quick look at my drawings and the the quote that was provided and see if you think it is reasonable?

Drawings & Quote (http://www.filedropper.com/drawings_2)

Thanks Again

Alex

Desertboy
12-09-2017, 08:09 AM
What electronics have you decided on?

Also did you consider mounting the Hiwin's sideways on? I might be wrong but I went with sideways on because it simplified the build, the less complex your parts (And less part numbers) will reduce your cost but also less complex is easier to troubleshoot and fix potential problems.

My original design had a crazy amount of plates in it before I stopped to think about how to actually make it rather than what looked good in cad lol.

AlexDoran
13-09-2017, 09:57 PM
So electronics wise, i have:

4nm Nema 23's
Leadshine AM882 Drivers
DDCSV1.1 Controller
2 x 600Watt 68v PSU's
1 x 23Watt 24v PSU (for the DDCSV1.1)
2.2kw Water Cooled Spindle & Huanyang VFD
Will be using Mechanical Endstops / Microswitches

Had forum member Leadhead pop down today which was great, he had some great tips and recommendations on the build, especially the Nema mounts he suggested which will drastically improve how well they perform (no twisting when stepping).

Got some more bits to sort out but carrying on dry assembling and finding tweaks.

Also gearing up to get this done with the controller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ivxcOnEBBM

Thanks

Alex

AlexDoran
18-09-2017, 03:35 PM
Made some progress on the electronics enclosure over the weekend, few people have already mentioned about cooling and moving the VFD out, i got some methods to try and reduce EFI and there will be ~4 fans in the case for cooling.

22810

22811

Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's? Also, can anyone point me in the right direction of the name of the 8 pin twist a lock connectors i see commonly used?

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
18-09-2017, 04:17 PM
Made some progress on the electronics enclosure over the weekend, few people have already mentioned about cooling and moving the VFD out, i got some methods to try and reduce EFI and there will be ~4 fans in the case for cooling.

22810

22811

Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's? Also, can anyone point me in the right direction of the name of the 8 pin twist a lock connectors i see commonly used?

Thanks

Alex

Nice! Very neat there, I'm going to use a mini tower case for my PSU, steppers drivers & breakout board.

I'm mounting the VFD directly onto the T slot aluminium frame.

Clive S
18-09-2017, 04:22 PM
Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's?

Bipolar Parallel is the way.

Desertboy
18-09-2017, 05:24 PM
Bipolar Parallel is the way.

That's actually how I like my women ;)

Nickhofen
18-09-2017, 05:52 PM
That's actually how I like my women ;)

What about the 68V ?:whistle:

Nickhofen
18-09-2017, 05:54 PM
Motors has 8 or 4 cables, I miss that.

AlexDoran
18-09-2017, 09:19 PM
The motors have 8 cables, is there a way to wire in parallel whilst only trailing 4 core wire back to the driver??

Thanks

Alex

Neale
18-09-2017, 10:53 PM
Yes, that's how it's usually done. Bring the 8 wires into some kind of junction box with a four-core cable coming out and going to the control box. You can hard-wire the four-core into the control box or use an appropriate plug and socket. I use XLR latching connectors but there are others. My "junction boxes" are 3D-printed (cheaper than small plastic boxes from Maplin) with choc block inside but as long as the cables are securely joined and protected, use what suits you.

Desertboy
19-09-2017, 07:51 AM
http://www.screwfix.com/p/debox-in-line-connector-box/8692h

22815

From the manual

http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/AM882m.pdf

Mine never came with a manual but I bought 2nd hand AM882's.

Neale
19-09-2017, 08:42 AM
They're a little bit bigger than the usual choc-block style connector strip, but I've used a few of these (http://www.screwfix.com/p/3-way-lever-connector-222-series-pack-of-50/76776)which seem to work well. They also have the advantage that because they're spring-loaded, they are much less sensitive to vibration than screw terminals. Also, each wire goes into its own little socket so no need to twist wires together as you do with choc block - always end up chasing odd strands, trying to balance the lengths of wires, etc, when I use them. Don't know if anyone sells them in smaller quantities.

AlexDoran
19-09-2017, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the replies guys, think i've got my head wrapped around it now, would it be bad practise to splice & solder the wires then heatshrink it all up afterwards?

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
19-09-2017, 10:01 AM
Thanks for the replies guys, think i've got my head wrapped around it now, would it be bad practise to splice & solder the wires then heatshrink it all up afterwards?

Thanks

Alex

That's the way I always do it. Use screened 4 core and ground the screen to the star point in the control box.

A_Camera
19-09-2017, 01:20 PM
They're a little bit bigger than the usual choc-block style connector strip, but I've used a few of these (http://www.screwfix.com/p/3-way-lever-connector-222-series-pack-of-50/76776)which seem to work well. They also have the advantage that because they're spring-loaded, they are much less sensitive to vibration than screw terminals. Also, each wire goes into its own little socket so no need to twist wires together as you do with choc block - always end up chasing odd strands, trying to balance the lengths of wires, etc, when I use them. Don't know if anyone sells them in smaller quantities.

I thought I was the only one using those connectors...

Another advantage of them is the wide range of wire diameters they can handle. In my opinion, they are much better than screw terminal blocks. Basically, the only thing I find to their disadvantage is that they don't have any good way of fixing them, so if you are in need of using a few in a small space then the looks are not as nice as using screw terminal blocks. My PSU looks a bit messy because of this, but never the less, I find them very nice to use and practical.

AlexDoran
20-09-2017, 07:54 PM
That's the way I always do it. Use screened 4 core and ground the screen to the star point in the control box.

Thanks Clive, this is what i will also be doing then.

Done some more on the electronics whilst i wait for some bolts to come, also need to machine some mock up parts tomorrow to finish the dry assembling, then hopefully should get some movement early next week. Was confused as hell earlier trying to figure out wiring the VFD using single phase, actually it was simplest thing ever!

Need to decide if i want to mount the controller on top of the PC Case using some kind of Arm / Swivel attachment, then fix the PC Case to the Bench the machine will be sat on, or have the Controller as a portable unit. Not sure the machine is big enough to warrant a portable one.

22832

22833

22834

22835

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
20-09-2017, 09:10 PM
Alex I would be putting some insulation over the mains terminals in the box before it bites you.:hororr:

AlexDoran
20-09-2017, 10:05 PM
Yeah i got a load of Heatshrinking to do, just wanted to make sure everything was functional before i made it pretty & safe :D

Alex

Desertboy
21-09-2017, 04:50 PM
I love how you've done it all very neat, mine is going to like Beirut on a bad day lol.

Nickhofen
21-09-2017, 07:07 PM
mine is going to like Beirut on a bad day lol.

Not true that!

AlexDoran
21-09-2017, 11:11 PM
Anyone know where is a good place to get some Shielded 18Awg 4 Core Cable for my steppers?? Also I've seen a few recommendations on the net but wondered what people on here were using for the Spindle cabling??

Thanks again guys

Alex

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 12:01 AM
Anyone know where is a good place to get some Shielded 18Awg 4 Core Cable for my steppers?? Also I've seen a few recommendations on the net but wondered what people on here were using for the Spindle cabling??

Thanks again guys

Alex

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALL-CY-CABLE-0-75MM-16MM-2-CORE-5-CORE-CY-CONTROL-FLEXIBLE-CABLE-PER-METRE/171352110328?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=470406565190&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Ring around electrical wholesalers in your area for CY cable or just buy it off ebay but if you do buy online buy at least 50% more than you think you need lol.

I have 1.5mm for spindle cable and 0.75mm for the steppers.

AlexDoran
22-09-2017, 08:43 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALL-CY-CABLE-0-75MM-16MM-2-CORE-5-CORE-CY-CONTROL-FLEXIBLE-CABLE-PER-METRE/171352110328?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=470406565190&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Ring around electrical wholesalers in your area for CY cable or just buy it off ebay but if you do buy online buy at least 50% more than you think you need lol.

I have 1.5mm for spindle cable and 0.75mm for the steppers.

Cheers mate that looks perfect will have a phone around, can i use this stuff for the spindle too?

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 08:50 AM
Cheers mate that looks perfect will have a phone around, can i use this stuff for the spindle too?

Yes it's good for the spindle but make sure it's CY not SY cable this is very important as SY cable is not at all flexible. Also SY is a lot more expensive (It's armoured). I use a company called Rexel Senate for wiring you could see if you have a branch locally. Prices were similar as ebay but without the postage and of course you can get it today/tomorrow.

http://wfsenate.co.uk/

Clive S
22-09-2017, 09:12 AM
Yes it's good for the spindle but make sure it's CY not SY cable this is very important as SY cable is not at all flexible. Also SY is a lot more expensive (It's armoured). I use a company called Rexel Senate for wiring you could see if you have a branch locally. Prices were similar as ebay but without the postage and of course you can get it today/tomorrow.

http://wfsenate.co.uk/

http://www.cablechoiceguide.co.uk/cables/control-cables/

The differences between the three cables are as follows:
CY Cables are used when interference-free transmission is needed. The CY Cable has a Multi-core Flex and a tinned copper wire braid and a PETP (Polyethylene Terephthalate) separator. All these work together to protect the cable from external electromagnetic influences and mechanical stress.

YY Cable works well within light mechanical stress and is suited to most environments. It is very versatile so can be used outside when protected and in dry and moist conditions inside.

SY Cable is the strongest cable from this family. It offers reliable mechanical protection and the galvanised steel wire braid makes it ultra strong and durable.
Control Cable Similarities
All three cables have similar properties. They are all highly flexible Multi-core cables with copper conductors (Class 5) and have a voltage rating of 300/500V.

Desertboy
22-09-2017, 09:45 AM
Not sure what size energy chain you have but I only just managed to squeeze 2 lines (1 0.75mm for the Z axis motor and 1 1.5mm for the spindle) in my smaller energy chain (this spans the gantry) and luckily I got a wider chain for the Y axis as it will have an extra lead going through it (Gantry motor).

My energy chain is this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-20mm-1M-Open-On-Both-Side-Plastic-Towline-Cable-Drag-Chain-FK/261808772571?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

and this one is the bigger stuff for the Y axis
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-cm-R3-5cm-plastic-open-type-wire-energy-chain-drag-chain-10mm-x-30mm-FK/232369372965?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I couldn't get my water lines in the chain but I didn't want the water running in the energy chain with electrical wiring anyways lol.

AlexDoran
27-09-2017, 02:50 PM
Thanks for your replies guys, i ended up getting a reel from RS Components for about £50 and some marine grade connectors whilst i was there. Had some movement out of the X & Y Axis! Fastest they seem to be able to Jog at the moment is 12500mm/min, i have not played with any acceleration settings yet. Waiting for 2 x DB25 Breakout Boards and DB25 2m cable to come so i can start properly wiring the controller, at the moment i've just run some cables to test movement. Also got the new Samsung Note 8 so now i can take photo's that don't look like they were taken on a potato.

Ordered some 40 x 15mm Cable drags, which should give me enough space to run 4 Lots of the CY Cable and also the Coolant Lines for the spindle. Need to start looking at what endstops i would like to use, i have a hole bag of micro switches that i could use but i think i would like to use some nice LED Inductive Sensors.

Made a start on modelling a hand held case for the DDCSV controller so that it can easily be carried around the machine to any position, it will also have a stand it can be put on.

I decided that it might be better to fix the machine to the bench it will be on, will this be satisfactory in terms of absorbing some vibrations or should i look at filling the extrusions with resin? What resin should i look at if this is the case?

22878

22879

22880

22881


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtGNW1Hj72M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIgZ-pfJp7I

Thanks

Alex

A_Camera
27-09-2017, 06:08 PM
Also got the new Samsung Note 8 so now i can take photo's that don't look like they were taken on a potato.

...now you must practice how to set the orientation right. The pictures are nice but they are all (even the videos) turned 90 degrees... ;) I mean, the videos are supposed to be taken with the phone in horizontal orientation otherwise you are wasting image surface area.

Anyway, it is really a very nice machine you are building. The only thing I notice is that you seem to have made the same mistake I did regarding the Z plate. The linear bearings should be the other way round, the rails moving up/down and the bearings fixed. If not too late you should change that. For me it is too late now, but it sure will be the first thing I'll correct next time I upgrade my CNC.

Nickhofen
27-09-2017, 06:58 PM
The machine looks good, it seems you are getting close now!

AlexDoran
27-09-2017, 08:30 PM
...now you must practice how to set the orientation right. The pictures are nice but they are all (even the videos) turned 90 degrees... ;) I mean, the videos are supposed to be taken with the phone in horizontal orientation otherwise you are wasting image surface area.

Anyway, it is really a very nice machine you are building. The only thing I notice is that you seem to have made the same mistake I did regarding the Z plate. The linear bearings should be the other way round, the rails moving up/down and the bearings fixed. If not too late you should change that. For me it is too late now, but it sure will be the first thing I'll correct next time I upgrade my CNC.

Lol I took the photos portrait and they are portrait on my PC, so not sure why they have uploaded rotated! Schoolboy error on the video though haha

That's an interesting point about the Z Bearings, so is the point of this to be able to spread the bearings further apart?? Maybe I could change the design, I'll have to have a play around with the CAD model.


The machine looks good, it seems you are getting close now!

Thanks, still a way to go yet I feel!

Thanks

Alex

Neale
27-09-2017, 08:40 PM
If you look at the geometry of the Z plates and imagine both ways of positioning rails and bearings, you will see that you get better support of the moving plate through its full travel if you put the bearing carriages on the fixed plate. It feels wrong at first, but it's the right thing to do! The rails also provide a slight stiffening effect on the moving plate as well, although if you use the usual 20mm plate, that's not going to matter much.

Zeeflyboy
27-09-2017, 09:16 PM
While I agree, it was pointed out to me that it can make the Z-axis less versatile... it can limit the ability to retract the Spindle and tool above the gantry base height which can cause problems when using long tools and/or tall stock.

Just worth considering if that sort of thing is on the agenda.

Neale
27-09-2017, 09:55 PM
No argument there - good engineering is all about compromise, and understanding the trade-offs so you pick the right compromise is important.

AlexDoran
27-09-2017, 10:57 PM
Having had a QUICK look, im mot sure that will work for me as I need to be able to get a 80mm tall workpiece in there and machine at least half way through,l. I will have a more detailed look tomorrow. I am probably going to space the carriages out slightly more and sacrifice travel at the lower limit as it will currently reach below the horizontal braces with a tool in the collect.

Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate it.

Alex

AlexDoran
28-09-2017, 05:48 PM
So i adjusted some of the components of the Z Axis to hopefully improve how rigid it is, previously that blocks that connect the Spindle Mount to the Linear Carriages were shorter than the Spindle Mount, in order to try and maximise Axis Travel, however in reality this meant that the spindle could reach well below the bed even without a tool in the collet, so i decided to make the Connection Blocks longer and increase the spacing of the Carriages.


22883

I started looking today about how i need to properly Ground the Spindle at the VFD side, whilst looking for information i came accross a forum post on CNCZone that said many of the Chinese spindles do not have their Ground pins connected to anything inside the Spindle, so i decided to take the top off and have a look - and not much of a surprise as the Ground pin was not connected to anything. Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?

22884

I've also been scouring the net today trying to find some nice proximity sensors to be used as limit switches, i think the DDSCV1.1 can use 12v limit switches? Could be wrong any advice would be appreciated.

Also waiting for the Cable Drags and breakout boards to arrive so i can design some brackets and a portable enclosure for the controller.

Also been searching for the correct resin to fill the extrusions with, anyone have any personal experience / recommendations?

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
28-09-2017, 06:26 PM
Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?


I just changed one of the socket hold down bolt to one a bit longer and put a connector on that with a nut.

Make sure you clean the water holes and put a little silicone around them to make a good seal when you put the top back on.

AlexDoran
28-09-2017, 09:00 PM
I just changed one of the socket hold down bolt to one a bit longer and put a connector on that with a nut.

Make sure you clean the water holes and put a little silicone around them to make a good seal when you put the top back on.

So simple - yet so brilliant ;) :D Thanks i will do that.

Thanks for the silicone tip i will pop out and grab some tomorrow.

Do you have any idea about the resin for the extrusions?

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
29-09-2017, 06:42 AM
I was considering filling the extrusion with resin but I asked around the forums and was told it was a waste of time.

I also spoke to a fibreglass guy who told me to use polyurethane with metal filler.

In the end not going to bother this time but will consider it in future.

AlexDoran
09-10-2017, 04:47 PM
I was considering filling the extrusion with resin but I asked around the forums and was told it was a waste of time.

I also spoke to a fibreglass guy who told me to use polyurethane with metal filler.

In the end not going to bother this time but will consider it in future.

I did some digging and came to same conclusion, think i will make the bench very heavy duty and fix the machine to it.

Havn't had as much time as i'd hoped the last few weeks to get much done, got all of the stepper wiring done, the cable drags turned up which meant i could get the lengths correct for the cables. I now have all Axis moving which is a nice milestone in the build. Ordered some Inductive Proximity sensors to act as limit switches, they seem to activate about 1.5mm from Aluminium, which should be ok for me. I need to do some research on the controller, as it has Terminals for Min, Max & Home for each Axis, what would be the scenario where you would have Home different to Min? Do some machines have Home at the Max or maybe Bed Centre?

22989

22990

22991

22992

Also need to order some Screw Connectors for them.

Got the Spindle wired in also, just need to configure the VFD properly, watched a few videos online which seems to be simple enough.

Also got through EMI / RDI Ferrite Rings for the Spindle cable to try and help reduce interference from the Spindle / VFD (whether it will or not who knows).

Current task is designing a portable enclosure for the DDCSV controller and the Parallel Breakout Board, i got two breakout boards, one to on the Electronics Enclosure and another to go with the DDCSV in its portable enclosure.

Cheers

Alex

Clive S
09-10-2017, 05:24 PM
Alex
Have you thought about the switches, the way you have them is asking for them to get squashed they might be better mounted so that they slide over the target

AlexDoran
10-10-2017, 08:56 AM
Alex
Have you thought about the switches, the way you have them is asking for them to get squashed they might be better mounted so that they slide over the target

Haha don't say that and jinx me :D - Do you mean so that they would be similar to how I have done the Y Axis ones?

23009

Thanks

Alex

Clive S
10-10-2017, 09:21 AM
Haha don't say that and jinx me :D - Do you mean so that they would be similar to how I have done the Y Axis ones?

23009

Thanks

Alex

Exactly. You have the switches ready to get squashed:hurt:

AlexDoran
10-10-2017, 09:42 AM
Exactly. You have the switches ready to get squashed:hurt:

Thanks, i will try and re-work those, at the moment those positions were the simplest and gave the maximum Axis Travel.

Thanks

Alex

Nr1madman
10-10-2017, 10:30 AM
Great build!
Fast going and looking good.
I know nothing about the strength of 3d printed parts but are they strong enough to hold the bearings on your long axis?

The printed parts that hold the bk/bf bearings are also subject to big loads... but as I said.. they might be up for it? ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

AlexDoran
10-10-2017, 10:49 AM
Great build!
Fast going and looking good.
I know nothing about the strength of 3d printed parts but are they strong enough to hold the bearings on your long axis?

The printed parts that hold the bk/bf bearings are also subject to big loads... but as I said.. they might be up for it? ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Hi there,

Thanks! I am only using 3D Printed Parts to dry assemble the machine. Once i am happy with how everything fits they will be replaced with aluminium :)

Thanks

Alex

Nr1madman
10-10-2017, 10:55 AM
Hi there,

Thanks! I am only using 3D Printed Parts to dry assemble the machine. Once i am happy with how everything fits they will be replaced with aluminium :)

Thanks

AlexNow I'm truly envious!
What an fantastic way to build...

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

AlexDoran
10-10-2017, 11:51 AM
Now I'm truly envious!
What an fantastic way to build...

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

The 3D Printed Parts are only 25% Solid, even so they are fairly tough and rigid - i'm sure you could print them much stronger than they already are (Increase the Wall Thickness and Infil % ). However it will never offer what Aluminium will. Great and very cheap / fast way to prototype!

Alex

AlexDoran
20-10-2017, 10:47 AM
So i pretty much finished the wiring, and ran the coolant lines for the spindle, tried to semi tidy the cables & pipes.

I started working on getting the Limit / Home switches working but i have been an idiot and bought the wrong type of probes, the DDCSV expects a 12v signal from the probe, but mine are NPN and not PNP so i am pretty sure these are not going to work directly with the controller, bit of a pain considering i already soldered them to the longer cables etc, now i need to try and source some PNP variants that are the same size, and dont cost £40 each.

I also wired the VFD to the controller, however when i try to run the spindle, the display on the VFD changes but nothing actually on the spindle, not sure if i have it configured properly, followed a youtube video, but also read a DIY guide that had conflicting information about some of the Hertz values, also i am trying to signal VFD from the DDCSV using the 10v pwm signal, i had the control parameters (PD001 & PD002) on the VFD set to 1 but i think this needs to be 2.

Any advice or help on any of these points would be greatly appreciated.

https://preview.ibb.co/bHXGLm/20171019_170131.jpg (https://ibb.co/hhci0m)
https://preview.ibb.co/nwVE6R/20171019_170139.jpg (https://ibb.co/mvmXt6)
https://preview.ibb.co/d2rXt6/20171019_170152.jpg (https://ibb.co/eSj7RR)
https://preview.ibb.co/n1HGLm/20171019_170158.jpg (https://ibb.co/mzYZ6R)

Alex

AlexDoran
20-10-2017, 01:29 PM
By pure luck i have managed to find some rather nice (and expensive Balluff Brand) Proximity Sensors in my brothers shed (He is the maintenance guy at work), he only had 4, which is ok as it means i am able to the machine homed, and perform some more tests, and actually - im not sure that i even to have Max Limit Switches? There is a Software Travel Limit that is defined and seems to work very well, im not sure if these get ignored when running a program so i will have to check that out.

However now i can only seem to get the Z Axis to move in one direction, i was thinking that it must be a loose / funny connection somewhere since i had been tidying all of the wiring up. However if there was a problem with the wiring would the Stepper even move in one direction at all?

I was also curious as to how the Axis should be orientated, currently the X (my longest Axis) and the Y both home to minimum - Position 0, and then move positively through the co-ordinates- for example 0 -> 1010mm. However i know that our big machines move negatively, eg: 0mm -> -3000. Is there a standard way of setting this out? What are the implications, do they just affect how you need to setup any post processing configuration from SolidCAM, Fusion etc?

Im also curious about how the Z Axis is orientated too, when moving positively it travels upwards - the homing is set to minimum but when homing it searches upwards. Possibly this is because of the problems i am having with the Axis.

Thanks

Alex

Desertboy
20-10-2017, 01:33 PM
So i adjusted some of the components of the Z Axis to hopefully improve how rigid it is, previously that blocks that connect the Spindle Mount to the Linear Carriages were shorter than the Spindle Mount, in order to try and maximise Axis Travel, however in reality this meant that the spindle could reach well below the bed even without a tool in the collet, so i decided to make the Connection Blocks longer and increase the spacing of the Carriages.


22883

I started looking today about how i need to properly Ground the Spindle at the VFD side, whilst looking for information i came accross a forum post on CNCZone that said many of the Chinese spindles do not have their Ground pins connected to anything inside the Spindle, so i decided to take the top off and have a look - and not much of a surprise as the Ground pin was not connected to anything. Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?

22884

I've also been scouring the net today trying to find some nice proximity sensors to be used as limit switches, i think the DDSCV1.1 can use 12v limit switches? Could be wrong any advice would be appreciated.

Also waiting for the Cable Drags and breakout boards to arrive so i can design some brackets and a portable enclosure for the controller.

Also been searching for the correct resin to fill the extrusions with, anyone have any personal experience / recommendations?

Thanks

Alex

Nice one both you and Clive tested my spindle today with an ammeter and it's obviously pin 4 is not connected to anything ;)

Will do as Clive suggested, were the top bolts hard to undo? I tried and felt some resistance like I have some loctite to break didn't want to push it until I asked had a nightmare rounding off A2's next time I build I will only use A2's were needed and stick to proper bolts if appropriate.

Clive S
20-10-2017, 01:38 PM
Im also curious about how the Z Axis is orientated too, when moving positively it travels upwards - the homing is set to minimum but when homing it searches upwards. Possibly this is because of the problems i am having with the Axis.

Thanks

It is usual to have the Z showing -ve going down so +ve and home would be at the top. The other two are personal choice.

Re the Z only moving in one direction check the (dir) on the driver and make sure it is changing sense ie 5v and 0v

AlexDoran
20-10-2017, 01:58 PM
Nice one both you and Clive tested my spindle today with an ammeter and it's obviously pin 4 is not connected to anything ;)

Will do as Clive suggested, were the top bolts hard to undo? I tried and felt some resistance like I have some loctite to break didn't want to push it until I asked had a nightmare rounding off A2's next time I build I will only use A2's were needed and stick to proper bolts if appropriate.

I had to crack them, think there was some thread lock on the bottom of mine, i one exactly as Clive suggested. However still cant seem to get the spindle going - have not tried today however; might switch it back to manual configuration and run it directly from the VFD just to make sure that everything is wired correctly.


It is usual to have the Z showing -ve going down so +ve and home would be at the top. The other two are personal choice.

Re the Z only moving in one direction check the (dir) on the driver and make sure it is changing sense ie 5v and 0v

Ok, well i guess it makes sense to change the X & Y to follow suit (Move Negative AWAY from the Home Position). At least then they are all the same and i can't confuse myself - which is very likely.

Roger Roger - Will check that thanks Clive.

Alex

Nickhofen
20-10-2017, 02:10 PM
The machine looks very good.
I am sure that with the help from all the expert guys here soon your cnc will run properly, carry on!

Clive S
20-10-2017, 04:11 PM
Ok, well i guess it makes sense to change the X & Y to follow suit (Move Negative AWAY from the Home Position). At least then they are all the same and i can't confuse myself - which is very likely.


If it was me I would keep the x and y going +ve away from the home switch. but still have the Z going down -ve as it is easier to read the gcode

Neale
21-10-2017, 06:33 AM
However, it is possible to have (0,0) in, say, the "bottom left" corner, which tends to be natural when you are standing in front of the machine, but have the home position in the top right corner and set the home position to the max value of travel. This gets the tool out of the way when you home. Or you can have each axis home at min or max. It's a question of choice. It's easy enough to configure Mach3 for each situation.

AlexDoran
23-10-2017, 11:37 AM
Thanks guys i will have a think about it.

Alex

Jerm
25-10-2017, 09:28 AM
Hi Everyone,

I'm glad someone is taking the time to elaborate on my design. ;)

Although not much use to you now, I've been meaning to make the CAD files available for others to use, perhaps I will get onto that this week.

I'm interested in seeing how your machine performs with 10 mm pitch screws. I used 1605 screws and have found them perfectly fine for my requirements. I've seen others online stating that 5 mm pitch screws are too slow and I fail to understood this statement. A machine this size which isn't used for production purposes I didn't see the need to maximise rapid speed. It's fast enough as it is! Perhaps a full size machine would require more speed, but then i'd probably move to rack and pinion anyway.

I too prefer "home" the machine to the back right hand corner, this means that the gantry is at the back and out of the way after initial startup, ready for me to load a sheet of material onto the bed. I have the axis set up as X from left to right (gantry) and Y (dual motor drive) front to back when standing in front of the machine. Therefore my homing position is X+,Y+,Z+.

I look forward to seeing some test cut footage on this machine!

Cheers
Jeremy

AlexDoran
25-10-2017, 09:50 PM
Hi Everyone,

I'm glad someone is taking the time to elaborate on my design. ;)

Although not much use to you now, I've been meaning to make the CAD files available for others to use, perhaps I will get onto that this week.

I'm interested in seeing how your machine performs with 10 mm pitch screws. I used 1605 screws and have found them perfectly fine for my requirements. I've seen others online stating that 5 mm pitch screws are too slow and I fail to understood this statement. A machine this size which isn't used for production purposes I didn't see the need to maximise rapid speed. It's fast enough as it is! Perhaps a full size machine would require more speed, but then i'd probably move to rack and pinion anyway.

I too prefer "home" the machine to the back right hand corner, this means that the gantry is at the back and out of the way after initial startup, ready for me to load a sheet of material onto the bed. I have the axis set up as X from left to right (gantry) and Y (dual motor drive) front to back when standing in front of the machine. Therefore my homing position is X+,Y+,Z+.

I look forward to seeing some test cut footage on this machine!

Cheers
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy! I hope you are well, i have been meaning to send you some updates on the build since we last spoke. Cad files would be great to a lot of people i think, a lot of people on the Facebook groups have asked - i just don't seem to have time to compile them neatly with a BOM right now.

I have made a lot of progress yesterday and today, i have finished wiring the machine now (almost, but i'm leaving Max Limit switches off for now, the loom is there if i want to use it in the future). I added a Ferrite ring to the Spindle Cable where it exits the VFD enclosure & also at the other end where it wires into the Marine Connector Socket, i hope this helps keep inference down - i have also grounded the CY cable correctly (i think., I also just need to add an E-Stop to the controller.

I got the Spindle working and also got it fully operational from the DDCSV1.1 controller. The Huanyang VFD is slightly strange, it requires you to daisy chain / common ground the DCM & ACM terminals (Analogue & Digital Control Signal Grounds), which does not make any sense to me. I'm not sure what the Chinese logic behind it is however it wasted an hour or two figuring it out but now works fine.

Also got the Coolant Drum (An old & cleaned out 20 Litre Lacquer Tin), setup with the pump in it - which all seems to be working nicely with no leaks. If the Drum is 20 Litres, would this be a sufficient volume to passively cool itself? Should any type of Antifreeze / Coolant be added or replace the water to improve performance, help cooling, prevent corrosion in the Spindle Water Jacket?

Next on the list is to try and wrap my head around SolidCAM, creating a Post Processor for it & getting some test programs run. Also at the point now where i need to look at getting the aluminium plates sorted.

Alex

Neale
26-10-2017, 07:48 AM
The reason for separate digital and analogue grounds is that sometimes, for example, the BOB or motion controller will have separate power supplies for digital and analogue outputs and this allows you to keep them isolated. Not always needed but essential in some situations. Not as silly as it might look at first sight, but frustrating when the Chinglish manual doesn't really help!

AlexDoran
26-10-2017, 08:51 AM
The reason for separate digital and analogue grounds is that sometimes, for example, the BOB or motion controller will have separate power supplies for digital and analogue outputs and this allows you to keep them isolated. Not always needed but essential in some situations. Not as silly as it might look at first sight, but frustrating when the Chinglish manual doesn't really help!

Ah that makes sense, another thing i found strange was i could not see anywhere in the Huanyang manual that stated what kind of signal the FOR input was expecting, so i also wasted another hour or so on that whilst trying to figure out the ACM / DCM grounding.

Alex

Nr1madman
26-10-2017, 09:04 AM
Wait a minute here... You got manuals for your stuff??? :D

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Neale
26-10-2017, 09:20 AM
You can find the HY manual from a pointer here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/5814-The-2-2Kw-Chinese-Spindles-Info-Setup-and-Advice-More) - just scroll down from the top.

AlexDoran
26-10-2017, 09:27 AM
Wait a minute here... You got manuals for your stuff??? :D

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Haha yep, which was pretty good actually to be fair to them, just lacked that precious bit of Data that i desperately needed :P

AlexDoran
27-10-2017, 01:29 PM
Well guys it may not look like much, but it was a fair amount of working getting to this point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFhnLcBEcY

My Solidworks package updated to 2018 in the last few days, 2018 Professional now comes included with Solidworks CAM - Which is essentially CAMWorks. I spent a lot of time yesterday and today wrapping my head around creating a Post Processor for the DDCSV1.1 to use with CAMWorks, setting up the machine and figuring out tool creation in CAMWorks etc.

As far as CAMWorks goes its a fantastic bit of software, i can just stay in Solidworks and open up the tab, click a button to recognise machinable features and then go from there, once i enter a few more tools into the Machine that are available to use, it will pick out the most suitable tool for the job and generate the tool paths. After this you can visualise them and make any changes etc.

Still need to make some changes to the Post Processor and CAMWorks settings to streamline the whole process but so far its no where near as challenging as i thought it would be.

Now i need to figure out and start researching good ways to reference origins on the machine, i see a lot of people work to the centre of parts, need to do some research on this.

Also looking to get a probe and figure that out with DDCSV1.1.

Thanks

Alex

Nr1madman
27-10-2017, 05:17 PM
Good going :D
Im envious of the movement, must feel great!

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Nr1madman
27-10-2017, 05:20 PM
You can find the HY manual from a pointer here (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/5814-The-2-2Kw-Chinese-Spindles-Info-Setup-and-Advice-More) - just scroll down from the top.Thanks Neale, I had downloaded it already.
Was just joking about that often the manuals are so bad that they don't even send them :D

As always your support is awesome!

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Neale
27-10-2017, 05:51 PM
Interesting thing about that copy of the manual is that it comes from a UK supplier (CNC4You). They pre-configure the HY VFDs that they sell, although the one I bought had the number of motor poles wrong so it showed the wrong motor speed. Easy to correct.

Nickhofen
28-10-2017, 06:20 PM
Wow !!! Perfect!!!!

jparamo4546
14-11-2017, 08:53 PM
Hi Everyone,

Although not much use to you now, I've been meaning to make the CAD files available for others to use, perhaps I will get onto that this week.

Jeremy

It would help some of us tremendously if you make the CAD files available. I haven't master CAD modeling yet to allow me to put a machine together like you have.

Jerm
24-11-2017, 05:32 AM
I have updated one of my blog posts to include a link to download the model.

https://jeremyyoungdesign.com/2016/05/26/diy-cnc-router-final-assembly/

AlexDoran
30-01-2018, 11:24 AM
I have not had a chance to work on the router properly in some months, i have been sooo busy with work and stuff outside that it has really taken the back seat. I have nearly now finished building the bench it will sit on, i just need to get this finished and painted then i will partially disassemble the machine and move it out onto the shop floor.

I need to get some product off the machine (for the main purpose it was designed), and am sure that the 3D Printed parts will suffice to do this (Cutting 2mm Thick Fire Retardant Interdens). Once i have a decent amount produced i will work on the aluminium plates to replace the plastic ones.

Another setback i will probably face is that my work PC had to be wiped (dont ask!), i managed to take a copy of my PowerCAM directory before this but am predicting it wont be as simple to just copy back the files and be where i was previously, it took a long time to get the post processor and machine / tools setup in Solidworks so i'm not looking forward to this as i have forgotten most of the steps to getting there.

Thanks

Alex

AlexDoran
12-03-2018, 10:37 PM
Hi guys, had some time recently to get some more done on the router. I had to get it out of the office and onto the shop floor so made a makeshift bench for it, it weighs about 80kg and is pretty sturdy, i bolted the router to the bench using M8 T Bolts.

23905

23904

With that done i set to work on the aluminium plates, i ended up purchasing the stock from the Aluminium Warehouse, i started with the most basic 5mm thick plates. It went pretty well, i tried to look at a feed / speed calculator to get a rough starting point but all of them were in inches or didn't actually give me the data i needed, i think i need to hit the books a bit more on that. I didn't purchase any additional tooling as i had a few 5mm Twin Flute Carbide tools sitting around, these seem to perform ok but are terrible at plunging and are very difficult to keep cool with air, i ended up running at 16,000RPM & 1m/min with cut depths of 1mm - as the machine is the opposite of rigid this seemed to "work" but is clearly not correct as a lot of heat was generated and i had to stop mid way through one plate as the spindle sounded as if it was going to stall!

23906

23907

23908

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU3ciLg19es

I'm looking for some advice on what tooling i should be using, how to calculate the correct speeds & feeds etc.

Should i be reducing the entire stock to achieve the part, as opposed to simply cutting out the part from the stock?

I watched one video where the guy drilled holes prior to pocketing, is this a good way approach plunging? Or is the a better / correct way to do this.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Nickhofen
13-03-2018, 08:43 AM
Double stick tape to hold down and cut the aluminium is a risky way to do the job. Better make the holes first and then use screws to hold down on your table the aluminium plates ,this way you minimize the risk of slippage. ;-)

AlexDoran
13-03-2018, 10:33 AM
Double stick tape to hold down and cut the aluminium is a risky way to do the job. Better make the holes first and then use screws to hold down on your table the aluminium plates ,this way you minimize the risk of slippage. ;-)

Yes i know its not ideal, i came across this method online a few times so thought i would try it, it's masking tape on the spoilboard & plate with Super Glue in between, it was actually very difficult to get off :P

Thanks

A_Camera
13-03-2018, 11:43 AM
I watched one video where the guy drilled holes prior to pocketing, is this a good way approach plunging? Or is the a better / correct way to do this.


First, a word of warning about double sided tape... don't use it to attach aluminium to MDF. I don't think it is a good idea because it doesn't stick well enough and is flexing in every direction. In my opinion double sided tape is only usable for PCB or acrylic, possibly thin aluminium (maximum 2mm) for panels. It is also OK for engraving, but not when you are pocketing or milling thick aluminium or other thick material. Use a vice or drill a few holes and screw the plates firmly to the MDF.

Regarding pocketing, yes, in my opinion it is a good idea to pre-drill large holes. It saves time and material, as well as tools. It is much faster and easier to drill or saw even a very large hole compared to milling all the material, but it requires fairly accurate positioning on both the drill stand and then the CNC bed. I drill or saw a bit smaller then needed and mill it to the final dimension with the CNC. I have a set of drills and circle saws so I can drill from 0.5mm up to 70mm and if I'd need to make even larger holes I'd buy larger (note that the quality is high On aluminium I am using 4 flute 4 or 6 mm diameter cutters, 18k RPM. I am dry milling, not using any lubricant or any spray. Probably it would be better to use something, but I chose not to because of the CNC location (inside my house in an ordinary office like hobby room). Anyway, regarding the cutter, I have no issues with chips welding to the cutter, but I try to keep a fairly high feed rate and it seems to work fine.