Power supply for anodising?

[Zeeflyboy]

Hi guys,

I've been doing my research on anodising and while there are some guides on cobbled together systems using lead acid chargers and dimmer switches, it seems like the message is that the most important part for consistent results at home is using a good constant current power supply.

However, the amperage requirement for reasonable sized parts (around 2-3ft^2 in my case) makes it quite hard to find a reasonably priced supply and I don't seem to see many recommendations in all the various blogs/forum posts.

To that end, just wondering if anyone had come across a supply they could recommend? Using the LCD method described by caldwell, it seems they talk about 4.5amps per sq ft so really I'd be looking at a supply capable of around 20 amps

I did come across this, which might be suitable... while its not crazy expensive it's not pocket change either and I really have no idea if this is the sort of supply I need. https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/?LANGUAGE=EN&CTYPE=0&MWSTFREE=0&CCOUNTRY=447&ARTICLE=146018&PROVID=2788&wt_guka=22596711737_79177291337&PROVID=2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn6DMBRC0ARIsAHZtCeMzr3KLl7SMipNN4AqQ UG2LUJGdzhlwh6-Q2yNt3t-koR8mUNm7k3MaAkl2EALw_wcB


Alternatively I have a rather powerful PSU that I bought a while back to use for my RC charger, capable of 2000w and 12v or 24v output. I believe it is basically two pc power supplies combined, but of course I would need some way to turn that into a constant current system... and I'm largely an electrical dunce. would my rc charger (two 500w outputs, can do lead acid up to 24v in the options) be suitable or is the clever charge circuitry going to get in the way?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

[Zeeflyboy]

alternatively, this one is a bit cheaper...

15v should be sufficient? Allows up to 6amps/sqft according to the 720 calcs.... any thoughts on whether it is desirable to be able to do more than that?

https://www.reichelt.com/gb/en/?LANGUAGE=EN&CTYPE=0&MWSTFREE=0&CCOUNTRY=447&ARTICLE=110539&PROVID=2788&wt_guka=22596716177_79177295777&PROVID=2788&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn6DMBRC0ARIsAHZtCeMzClCJWKBXELsdbM6Z tjDblfmB1tK1Y253OaaUTPniyVVMWFmdkyQaAlKfEALw_wcB

[m_c]

Something like what you've linked looks good.

Alternatively, have a search over on the EEVblog forum, as I'm sure I've read some posts on there about constant current supplies (I've not been on there for a good while, so I may be getting confused with somewhere else!).
I'm sure there's plenty constant current schematics around, but when you get to that amount of current, they have to be well designed to avoid releasing magic smoke.

[Zeeflyboy]

Thanks for that, I'll have a look over there but since you say one of those I linked is suitable I will probably go for a proper retail unit rather than try building my own.

Cheers

[Jonathan]

One of these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/RD-DPS5020-Constant-Voltage-current-Step-down-communication-digital-Power-Supply-buck-Voltage-converter-LCD-voltmeter/923042_32821185351.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.2238 8c28Yvk2a1

With a suitable transformer - or batteries if you want.

Housed in a case, if you want ...

22568

[Boyan Silyavski]

I was in that doubt before some time.

Maas HCS 3400 (http://www.maas-elektronik.de/MAAS-HCS-3400-Schaltnetzteil-40-Ampere.2.html) 1-15V, 0-40A Bench Power Supply was the one i bought and i believe is a best heavy duty budget one that could cover quite big parts like alloy wheels and so on. Its well tested and serves for the purpose, German quality control , its Chinese but bit better than no name crap.

[Clive S]

I was in that doubt before some time.

Maas HCS 3400 (http://www.maas-elektronik.de/MAAS-HCS-3400-Schaltnetzteil-40-Ampere.2.html) 1-15V, 0-40A Bench Power Supply was the one i bought and i believe is a best heavy duty budget one that could cover quite big parts like alloy wheels and so on. Its well tested and serves for the purpose, German quality control , its Chinese but bit better than no name crap.

The one Jonathan linked to is 0-50V yours is 0-15v but it does need an external supply

[Boyan Silyavski]

The one Jonathan linked to is 0-50V yours is 0-15v but it does need an external supply

Anodizing needs Amps not Voltage . Its perfect for the purpose, i wouldn't have recommended or bought it if it was the wrong one...

Now if he was anodizing Titanium or messing with plating, a better supply will be the 3602, which is 0-30VDc 0-30A. And yes, thats maybe the best Lab PSu to have at home for multipurpose, but its quite more expensive.

There are other cheaper possibilities:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/MLINK-KPS3030DA-30V-30A-REGULATED-ADJUSTABLE-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-DIGITAL-DISPLAY-/252536278070?hash=item3acc55cc36:g:BT8AAOSwgmJX1p2 V

https://www.ercmarket.com/digital-lab-switching-power-supply-with-regulated-mode-30v-20a-ps3020.html

https://www.ercmarket.com/maas-power-supply-1-30v-dc-0-30-a.html

[Clive S]

Anodizing needs Amps not Voltage I don't think you can have one without the other:cower:

[Zeeflyboy]

0-15 volts is ok for up to about 6amps/square foot which is fine for the LCD method it seems, if going with 6asf that allows some fairly large pieces to be done with a 40 amp power supply.

30v would allow you to run at 12amps/sq foot, so you could get parts done more quickly but the power requirements quickly get out of hand for anything other than small to medium sized parts, but it is twice as fast.

I think 0-30v and 40 or so amps would be ideal, my largest part so far is about 2.6 sq/ft so at 12 asf would require 32 amps but I haven't seen any capable of that sort of power within a reasonable price range. The closest is that first link at 0-30v and 30 amps. I'm not doing it on a production basis so it's not a huge problem to run at 15v and 6 amps/sq ft and just accept that it'll take 2 hrs for a mil rather than 1 hour.

Jonathan - that looks interesting, I'll do some reading up and looking around at your link a bit more closer later thanks. The amps of the one you linked won't be sufficient to do the larger parts at 12 amps/sq foot but maybe I could just drop down to 6amps/sq foot for the larger pieces and it still leaves me the option to run at a higher voltage to do smaller pieces more quickly at 12 amps/sq ft.

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Boyan Silyavski]

40AMP 15vdc PSU will be good for ~7 square foot at 6Amp/Ft² density which is the recommended density for home scenario. Here (http://ndhsubmersiblescience.com/ano/720rule.html)is the calculator which i assume you know of, but anyway i will pass the link. I have tested it many times and it works perfectly.

For me price wise it was the perfect one PSU, having in mind i bought the acid in 20L

[Clive S]

For an experiment could you just use a standard lead acid car battery 3 sq/f would take 3 hours at 12A

[Boyan Silyavski]

For an experiment could you just use a standard lead acid car battery 3 sq/f would take 3 hours at 12A

I used that while waiting for my PSU. The thing is that there are certain times where you have to take certain steps and there is nothing better watching at the display what's happening with the Amp draw. In fact you have to limit it at the beginning, hence the need for Volt Amp separate control. I guess with and digital amp meter you could do that monitoring. With the proper PSU and using the calculator above, i was able to reach desired anodizing thickness at first try.

[Zeeflyboy]

I used that while waiting for my PSU. The thing is that there are certain times where you have to take certain steps and there is nothing better watching at the display what's happening with the Amp draw. In fact you have to limit it at the beginning, hence the need for Volt Amp separate control. I guess with and digital amp meter you could do that monitoring. With the proper PSU and using the calculator above, i was able to reach desired anodizing thickness at first try.
I'm certainly no expert, but from my reading it seems the key to consistent results (especially when dying the parts after) is to use constant current from a proper power supply.

Have you guys ever found a source for 6063 T6 aluminium for cathodes or do you just use lead and be done with it? I can't find 6063 T6 in any decent size.

[Boyan Silyavski]

I'm certainly no expert, but from my reading it seems the key to consistent results (especially when dying the parts after) is to use constant current from a proper power supply.

The constant current is to limit as i said to a certain current the current draw. Then current starts to drop at a certain time, when certain thickness is achieved, hence you can judge the thickness by the current draw. You can not give more current than it could take when there is the anodizing layer already formed


Have you guys ever found a source for 6063 T6 aluminium for cathodes or do you just use lead and be done with it? I can't find 6063 T6 in any decent size.

I don't know how big you are going to make your tank but here is some friendly advice:

1. Dont be cheap on the container and if possible buy proper anodizing container. make sure it's from the right plastic. And keep the rest in dark place inside.

I used a plastic one from chinese shop which i deemed good at the time and it worked well. In fact i bought 2 of them , transparent, and one was fit inside the other as extra security.

That did not stop the original 20l plastic container to brake in my hands half full with acid when i was moving house next year and 10l of acid to fall and splash from 1 meter around me. Luckily my reaction was fast and as i always use full face protector , working trousers and protective boots around acids and when welding, so i got without a scratch. The plastic have deteriorated which is very strange, but i think that was result from me leaving it outside, though it was covered. The chinese transparent boxes were ok though

2. Junkyard is your best place to go and find aluminum sheet. Any sheet will work. I used 1mm sheet with great results. If anodized, just use the other type of acid that you will use for cleaning your pieces to wash away the anodizing. Do the tank properly and use aeration, temp monitoring. If you do the tank big enough there will be no need for temp control, though if you are serious enough its not a big deal to DIY a way to cool the tank. No need to say that you must heat it using fish tank heater to the proper temperature.

3. If there is a way to do all that outside open air beneath a shelter or sth, that's the best way. It stinks and is dangerous for health. I wear respirator with proper filter / which is different from normal painting filter/ . Maybe you know summer here in Spain, every time i was anodizing i was dressed like a nuclear response team, sweating like a pig, but health is quite more important. My tank was about 70x50x50cm and i dont see how sb will do that inside if there is not an extractor on top of it. Anyway, is best to use an extractor even outside so fumes go somewhere else , hopefully not your neighbours bedroom window


4. Check all that works correctly with water before using actual acid in the tank. Do yourself a favor and buy a water osmosis sytem as you will need a lot of water, so buying distilled water will not do. Even for small projects.

[Zeeflyboy]

The current dropping off is doing a constant voltage technique though no? You seem to be describing constant voltage but with a limit on the current.

My understanding is that the constant current technique tries to maintain whatever current you have set by raising the voltage. So one takes the sq ft of the part, multiply by 6 (if using 6asf) and then set that result in the power supply, which will then slowly raise the voltage as necessary to maintain that current. Using the 720 calculator you can then determine that at 6asf for example, the final voltage will be 15v and it will take 2hrs for a 1mil layer.

Thanks for all the tips - I believe I should be using a polypropylene tank, my slight problem is that my larger parts are quite long. I found a suitable polypropylene container in home base, but to get enough length its a 60L tub, which is a lot of acid, heavy and a big thing to store when it's far wider than needed in reality. I could get away with something much thinner, but never seen anything suitable and not sure how I would go about building my own tank.

Would a fish tank work? You can get those fairly long and thin, but not sure about the sealant they use and the acid.

[Clive S]

If it is only for one long part you could use some heavy duty membrane (think dpc under concrete) and make a temp. trough with timber to support it (outside of course). Or dig a channel in the garden to support it

[Boyan Silyavski]

Long pipe cut along in half ? like the ones they use now for drainage or water, they are from some heavy duty PP or PE. Any construction site will have pieces thrown

[Zeeflyboy]

Decided just to buy an 80L polypropylene crate.... Internal dimensions are about 600x400x400ish mm so will fit the longest parts I currently plan to use and means I can do batches of smaller parts to save time.

It's wider than I needed, but I have designed a little PVC pipe cooling system which will eat up some of the volume... will just run cold water through it to keep the tub cool. Whether or not it's necessary really, probably not, but at least it takes a few litres of displacement out of the tank which is a few less litres of acid to deal with!

Cheers for the assistance chaps

[lilvfr400boy]

Please can anyone advice, I bought this under the impression it was ideal for my anodising at home after a few successful attempts with a car battery charger thinking I'd move up to a higher capacity tank. I can't for the life of me get this supply to work for me so I'm guessing it's not correct as I'm a total novice any advice would be much appreciatedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190621/f472e7c48607998ecd7c998e45bee22a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190621/60c33d9ac5765019fd235fcaaa841ee7.jpg

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[Voicecoil]

It doesn't look too different from the one I've used with reasonable success, so I can't see why you should have any major problems. The only comment I would make is that I found 15V wasn't quite enough voltage to meet the "720 rule" if your solution is cold, however now it's summer you should be fine with that.

[lilvfr400boy]

It's very odd, Im unable to get amps to push any higher then 0.3/0.5 amps when anything aluminium is placed into the tank using it, I'm using an aluminium half inc unf adapter which has the positive directly connected to a (sanded) bare patch of aluminium as has the part I'm wanting to do which is half inch unf female threaded onto the part that's positive. I'm unsure where the issue lies or if the supply is faulty perhaps ?

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[Voicecoil]

Hmmm, sounds odd - maybe post a pic of your bath and then perhaps someone can spot the problem?. BTW, how big is the part you're trying to anodise??? If it's small the current will be low anyway at 15V.

[lilvfr400boy]

Hmmm, sounds odd - maybe post a pic of your bath and then perhaps someone can spot the problem?. BTW, how big is the part you're trying to anodise??? If it's small the current will be low anyway at 15V.Will do once I finish work, much appreciated the part is roughly 31 sq inches

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[Boyan Silyavski]

Check at the back if there are any jumpers. My power supply has jumpers that change the mode of it, so that may be the reason. Use thick wires and clean your plates. What plates are you using inside the bath? Aluminum or lead?

[lilvfr400boy]

Currently using lead, I'll check this as the instructions that's included suggest for plating negative on the part. Which I know of course is incorrect for anodising. I re attempted last night with bare titanium wire made into a coil inside the bare ally thread on the part also again unsuccessful [emoji107] hoping I'm missing something simple as I've had some really nice results prior to this supply [emoji23]

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[lilvfr400boy]

Here's a picture of the setup as is 0 amps though I've adjusted it up from zero. Sanded the titanium wire back and the part sat in deox for 3 mins prior to entering the anodising tank. Tanks at 20 degrees and it's being agitated too. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/f727cdff841b61798b5ea15097820877.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190622/f4c6522d34c9fe5324c787ea54785715.jpg
Edit ; will add I've just placed an led between the POS and the part which lit immediately so I know the part is conducting just fine the way I have it connected which is suggesting to me either the power supply is faulty and or not capable for use anodising ?

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[john swift]

what happens when you turn the curren limit knob clockwise to turn the current limit up ?

John

[lilvfr400boy]

what happens when you turn the curren limit knob clockwise to turn the current limit up ?

JohnLiterally nothing as it's setup, it's as if the unit itself is clicking off the current. I've ran several tests tonight, both wires In the bath which gives full volts and current , reversing the polarity ( plating setup ) which also have full current and volts, the only way it doesn't work is setup to anodise I'm totally stumped by it I'll be going back to the car charger temporarily as I'm now a few days behind with bits

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[Voicecoil]

It's worth checking your connections (with a DMM set to ohms/continuity) - one probe on the connection to the PSU, one on the workpiece. In my setup (I use sodium bisulphate) I'd be expecting about 0.7...0.9A on 31in2 @ 20 deg C - always seems to be less than the 720 rule predicts, so I just run it for proportionately longer.

[lilvfr400boy]

It's worth checking your connections (with a DMM set to ohms/continuity) - one probe on the connection to the PSU, one on the workpiece. In my setup (I use sodium bisulphate) I'd be expecting about 0.7...0.9A on 31in2 @ 20 deg C - always seems to be less than the 720 rule predicts, so I just run it for proportionately longer.Thank you [emoji106] I'll grab a dmm asap I stood on mine just before I wanted to use it [emoji23] it's a shame though if I have a good connection but can't get the unit to get an amp reading at all, what would you suggest if that is the case ( good solid connection , small work piece 7sq2, no amps )

I assumed ( potentially incorrect) that you could set the amps to whatever you wanted ? ( I know you would only set it to the 720 rules suggestion anyway ) but would be nice to be able to push the unit to am exact amp to match the 720, for example I can get a reading from the workpiece when it's the 32 sq2 piece but only pushing around 0.6 amp which is half what 720 suggests for 0.2mm thickness do I just double up on time and it will give me 0.2mm?

Sorry if this is super basic stuff that should be elementary but I find some info online is overkill and others are futile in the basic nature they describe it .
I was hoping I could ditch the car charger in place of this but without being able to do small bits I'll need to keep it is my concern.

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[Boyan Silyavski]

If you have properly done your setup, you can set the Amps as you want but not more than the size of the setup, then slowly amps drop. Thats how you read at what anodizing stage you are.

If you can not reach the recommended settings, then your plate is too small maybe, or is oxidized or sth. I used aluminum plates and worked like a charm.


Why dont you connect your PSU to a real battery and check if it works properly?

[lilvfr400boy]

My plates are relatively new, and I've lightly sanded them in case any surface corrosion was the case , I've retested using my car battery charger and it works anodising just fine at 32sq2 but of course it's not ideal as can't see amps volts etc this is the result when using the car charger so it's stumping me why the better supply isn't working for me
I've tried a multitude of things to test being able to push amps etc and it's working I'll try a test on a battery when I can. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/322ab9e8727db21b65678a6ab1128149.jpg

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[Voicecoil]

Under some circumstances you (or more correctly your PSU if you've set it to constant current mode) will only be able to push the current to what the 720 rule suggests if you have some reserve voltage available, which may not be much on a 15V supply - I've found that in my bath I need 2 or 3V extra to get the recommended current, so I'd always recommend a 20 or 24V supply now. As for what you'll get on your 7in2 workpiece I'd reckon only 0.2A with 15V, which might be below the bottom end of the meter on your PSU - I doubt if it's amazingly accurate down there. Now then, can you see any fizzing/fine bubbles coming off the workpiece/cathode? if so, then you'll be doing some anodising. If you want to check your PSU, get a couple of 10 ohm power resistors and connect one across the terminals - with the supply set to constant voltage it should draw 1A at 10V, 1.5A at 15V. If you set the supply to constant current then you should be able to set it to 1A (voltage turned right up) with one resistor - if you now add the second resistor in parallel the current should stay the same. If you want to monitor the current on you car charger you could simply add something like this in series with the bath:

https://cpc.farnell.com/hobut/f3pam602-10a/ammeter-0-to-10a/dp/PM11548?st=ammeter

[lilvfr400boy]

This I guess is one issue with this ps tbh as it's not selectable the mode and it doesn't say which it's on either.
I'm considering sending it back as I'm certain it's not fit for purpose. I've set a limit of £250 to get something and looking at the Maas suggested above but any pointers would be hugely appreciated. I'll get £110 back for this providing they accept it back. It just doesn't seem close to accurate enough for small scale work like 5-7 sq2 which is a pain as the end caps I do are between them

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[lilvfr400boy]

Under some circumstances you (or more correctly your PSU if you've set it to constant current mode) will only be able to push the current to what the 720 rule suggests if you have some reserve voltage available, which may not be much on a 15V supply - I've found that in my bath I need 2 or 3V extra to get the recommended current, so I'd always recommend a 20 or 24V supply now. As for what you'll get on your 7in2 workpiece I'd reckon only 0.2A with 15V, which might be below the bottom end of the meter on your PSU - I doubt if it's amazingly accurate down there. Now then, can you see any fizzing/fine bubbles coming off the workpiece/cathode? if so, then you'll be doing some anodising. If you want to check your PSU, get a couple of 10 ohm power resistors and connect one across the terminals - with the supply set to constant voltage it should draw 1A at 10V, 1.5A at 15V. If you set the supply to constant current then you should be able to set it to 1A (voltage turned right up) with one resistor - if you now add the second resistor in parallel the current should stay the same. If you want to monitor the current on you car charger you could simply add something like this in series with the bath:

https://cpc.farnell.com/hobut/f3pam602-10a/ammeter-0-to-10a/dp/PM11548?st=ammeterThat amp meter suggestions brilliant [emoji108] will solve my issue for the end caps.
I'm hoping I get time to have a play today and see what I can do. I did test placing a bolt as the anode ( work piece ) to check see if that got a reading which it immediately did v and A were both controllable

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[Voicecoil]

This I guess is one issue with this ps tbh as it's not selectable the mode and it doesn't say which it's on either.
I'm considering sending it back as I'm certain it's not fit for purpose. I've set a limit of £250 to get something and looking at the Maas suggested above but any pointers would be hugely appreciated. I'll get £110 back for this providing they accept it back. It just doesn't seem close to accurate enough for small scale work like 5-7 sq2 which is a pain as the end caps I do are between them

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OK, then looking at the front panel I guess for constant voltage you turn the current knob way up and set the voltage, and for constant current you turn the volts all the way up and set the current. It seems to me that something like a little lab bacn supply would do you well for you smaller pieces, needn't be too expensive, there's lots like this for example:

https://www.conrad.com/p/basetech-bt-305-bench-psu-adjustable-voltage-0-30-vdc-0-5-a-150-w-no-of-outputs-1-x-513812

[lilvfr400boy]

Well I've places approx 40sq2 into the bath now including the end caps in the hope it would just up the amp draw automatically so roughly 0.3 amp increase by adding them to a busbar style setup ( length of copper wire ) with 3 work pieces setup on this. I aim to be anodising multiple parts anyway so figured if I use a bigger work piece then add small ones to it I can sort of see the jump in amps between them.
Going to give it 1.5 hours for this lot hopefully should bring me to around 0.3mm.
Ps @voicecoil that ps looks interesting have you tried it ? May be of use for me to do all my smaller items.
I'm about to setup a 45 liter tank as hoping to anodise around 200 sq2 at a time save messing with things as much
Out of interest do you think this will be too thin to obtain a solid dye colour ? If so I'll give it 2 hours as the parts arent moving so interferance isn't an issue .https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/e417672458d4ba99e2b0812377104e1b.jpg

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[lilvfr400boy]

Well it wasn't terribly unsuccessful did a full other mod test unit that's been abused a bit. Thanks for everyone's input it's helped tremendously I've got some ally mig wire coming to help with lessen resistance https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190623/e19e113010f7a3d4dd79fbd44440720c.jpg

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[Voicecoil]

Ps @voicecoil that ps looks interesting have you tried it ? May be of use for me to do all my smaller items.

No I haven't - it was just the first such item of a suitable spec. that came up in a search! There's loads of such things available for sub £100, if it were me I'd probably get one from someone like Rapid Electronics or CPC as you've got good backup.



Out of interest do you think this will be too thin to obtain a solid dye colour ? If so I'll give it 2 hours as the parts arent moving so interferance isn't an issue .Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I'm no great authority on things like thickness I'm afraid, being a bit of an anodising newbie myself. The parts I did for the CNC had about 10...15u according to the 720 rule and seemed to colour up just fine. BTW, you've some nicely machined parts there!

edit: Just had a look on CPC and they've a Tenma 30V/5A PSU for £60

[lilvfr400boy]

I'll have a gander and check it out I've worked out this is running enough when on 0 amps to anodise how I want at 2.5 hours for smaller parts

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[lilvfr400boy]

Couple more bits rattled off [emoji3] getting some consistency now I've got the mounting to the rack setup rite. Have to say this power supply ain't bad tbh. I've ordered a small 30 w 5 amp unit off the bay that's reviewed well as a permanent fixture for the smaller setup as the fusion units coming to the big boy tank. All my amp issues were purely down to how I was attaching the parts ( not enough contact ) in the end ally mig wire 0.8mm wound into coils and pushed tight into the holes has worked perfectly for what I'm doing https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190630/ca93d99b72dacf42d88108cfc9c7b1a0.jpg

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[Boyan Silyavski]

I was attaching my parts using 1mm titanium wire , drill in part somewhere where is not seen 1mm hole and using pliers push the wire. Never had contact problems. I believe it's one of the best way to avoid contact problems when anodizing

[lilvfr400boy]

I've started using 0.8 mig wire and making coils into holes or make a big coil inside the tube since then I've had no issues

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[lilvfr400boy]

Does anyone have a rough estimate for pH ideals of electrolyte solution ? I've read between 1 and 2 but getting 0 on my meter

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