carving issues-UNSOLVED

[woodworker]

HI has anyone come across this problem with Mach3 I did a design in aspire and set my machine up but found it carved the image twice the second on off set by approx 30mm I have attached an image to show what I mean so I would ask it to draw 1 circle but I get what is shown on the attachment, thanks guys.

[Ger21]

Does the Mach3 toolpath screen show two circles? Does the Aspire preview?

Can you post the g-code?

[phill05]

HI has anyone come across this problem with Mach3 I did a design in aspire and set my machine up but found it carved the image twice the second on off set by approx 30mm I have attached an image to show what I mean so I would ask it to draw 1 circle but I get what is shown on the attachment, thanks guys.

Check which post processor you are asking Aspire to use to save toolpath, try Gcode (mm) (*.tap) should work on most machines.

Phill

[woodworker]

Thanks for the response, I don't have the gcode but next time I will save it the image looks correct in both aspire and on the mach 3 display.

[woodworker]

Will try that Phil cheers

[woodworker]

230112301223013

Hi Guys managed to get 5 mins down the shed, haven't changed the settings or file format saved as mach3 format. Asked it to do a pocket cut on a piece of wood cut size 70mm x 70mm found on third pass it changed the start point 15mm to the right it does this on text as well. Gcode below (sorry couldnt find another way to post it :) ) I'm using aspire 8.5 and Mach 3 cheers Thanks again

[Clive S]

Well the code looks good to me every time the Z drops down the X and Y start at the same place.

I would suggest you have a mechanical problem or you are missing steps. pulley loose etc. binding up!!

It might be better to post the text as a file attachment to save space.

[woodworker]

Hi Clive no binding bud just tried saving as a Gcode file (recommended by Phil) instead of Mach 3 have a completely different issue so I'm thinking compatibility issue with the hardware software think I will email Rhonmac.23014

[phill05]

Did the machine come with a DSP or Mach3?, check if the Rhonmac machine needs it's own post processor.

Phill

[woodworker]

No software came with it the guy used to use linux OS I am not a fan of it so I put all the software on :) probably why it doesnt work lol

[phill05]

(probably why it doesnt work lol)

Ya could be right there, start with contacting Rhonmac.

Phill

[woodworker]

do you use Aspire yourself Phill? if you do would it be possible please for you to output me a simple file 100mm X 100mm project size and a pocket of 60mm X 60mm depth of 30mm tool size 8mm mill, that way I will be able to check if my software is working correctly. Thanks not to worry if you cant or dont use.

[phill05]

Yes mate on it now

[woodworker]

awesome thank you

[woodworker]

cheers Phill will let you know tomorrow

[woodworker]

Hi Phill
Same unfortunately the tap file cut ok for around 5 cuts then went left by approx 20mm (the bit doesn't like being shoved across a thick piece of wood) and the second file cut to the right approx the same at least I can rule out Aspire as the culprit, going to make a phone call me thinks.

[woodworker]

Solved turns out my Mach 3 copy is corrupt what did I expect as it came with my long dead Chinese laser machine so I now need to purchase a new Mach 3. Big thanks to Phill for going beyond the call really helped me nail down the issue.

[cropwell]

If you purchased a proper licence, then you should be able to download Mach3 and use the same licence. If the licence came with the Chinese laser, then it is probably a 'pirate' and the download won't work with it.

[woodworker]

yeah should have realised :) reg to papa somebody just have to wait for payday now.

[Ger21]

papa fabio strikes again.

[woodworker]

Thats the dude lol

[cropwell]

papa fabio strikes again.

no comprendo ! Unless it is the name of a Chinese software pirate - Arrgh.

[AndyGuid]

Am I seeing right? Were you yourself able to update your thread title to show SOLVED?
If so, I didn't know we could do that.
I like it if we can we now change the title of our own threads when appropriate . . . .

[woodworker]

yeah just edited the title :) useful to know

[woodworker]

All licensed up now for a full test, if anyone else is after a full Mach3 License
cheapest I found was low cost cnc retrofit they are in Australia but as its a download it matters not, took about 8 hours to get not bad considering the time difference its $145 instead of $175 on the Mach3 site. I emailed Artsoft querying the price still waiting... Low cost are on their list of resellers.

[cropwell]

Ok, now you have a genuine license, I would recommend that it is registered with ArtSoft, then if you lose the file, you can re download from ArtSoft. That got me out of the shit after I lost my hard drive and the backup had failed without me knowing it.

My next task is to take a back-up of the restored system and check I can restore it to a fresh hard drive - and get it working from there.

[woodworker]

awesome

[woodworker]

Sadly after all that turns out not to be software, I was happily cutting away this afternoon when I watched the movement stop yet the code continued to run on Mach3 then it the machine moves again of course out of sync with the code, this is obviously an intermittent fault and seems to be on random axis anyone have any idea how I can track this fault down, I'm about ready to skip the whole thing.23032

[cropwell]

If you are ready to skip it, I am fairly close to you :chuncky:

PM me with your phone number and we can talk through the problem.

[cropwell]

Could you have a problem with your power supply overheating and going into temporary shut down while it cools for a second ? What controller have you got?

[woodworker]

Think I will get murdered by the Mrs if I skipped it lol, the control box is a Rhonmac not sure on controller cards etc all in a nice neat box, I have noticed that when I jog the motors usually first thing they just make a noise and dont move obviously if this happens mid cut it would cause my issue, but so far I have been unable to hear the noise when its all running. I'm wondering if its to do with the speed I have it set to?!!
not really sure if the settings are correct my machine info is 1600 steps 8 micro steps 15 motor teeth leadscrew 30 leadscrew pitch 2mm expect this means something to somebody. Mach 3 is set to steps per 2000 velocity 438 acceleration 187.5

[cropwell]

It could be a motor stall problem. Try reducing the acceleration, you can always set it back up if no difference. Your Mach3 steps per looks wrong. I am very tired at the moment, so if anyone would care to check my calcs please let me know if I am out.

Motor has 15 tooth pulley, Leadscrew has 30 tooth pulley (I would have expected this to be the other way round - but no matter)

2:1 pulley reduction
2mm pitch leadscrew means axis moves 1 mm per revolution of the stepper, ie 200 steps, 8 microsteps means 1600 pulses per rev, i.e. mm.

So steps per in Mach3 should be 1600 not 2000.

Have you done any dimension tests yet or has your current problem overshadowed things ?

[woodworker]

Thanks Cropwell I have a pile of firewood so far I will PM my number I wasnt around earlier but in all day tomorrow if you have time. The 1600 looked obvious when I typed it duh just seem to be going round in circles, not 100% sure about dimension tests but I cut some pockets and found them to be several mm out.

[Clive S]

I did mention all this to you in post #7 when I checked your code. (I see that you have deleted the code).

So do as Rob says and lower the acc. at least on the axis that is stalling.

[woodworker]

Right guys tried setting up the machine with the set steps in settings it failed twice to move the x axis and once on the z I tried again success on the next attempts all ok with distance, it has probably failed to move at least 10 times this morning at various settings (all on the jog buttons mostly x axis). so I set up a couple of dry run pockets without extraction and router so I could hear any motor changes on the second cut I heard one at a about 30 % in I am thinking this must controller related now I will post up what they are once I've got the screw driver out.

[woodworker]

ok, box opened images of controller cards,pc and control box my steppers are motionking 23hs1404 I have been unable to get the spec for these motors (why dont they put it on the labels?!?!? 2303923040230412304223043

[phill05]

Look like your amps are set to 4.5 try dropping to 3.7 that is sw1-off sw2-on sw3-off then retry

Phill

[Clive S]

Right guys tried setting up the machine with the set steps in settings it failed twice to move the x axis and once on the z I tried again success on the next attempts all ok with distance, it has probably failed to move at least 10 times this morning at various settings (all on the jog buttons mostly x axis). so I set up a couple of dry run pockets without extraction and router so I could hear any motor changes on the second cut I heard one at a about 30 % in I am thinking this must controller related now I will post up what they are once I've got the screw driver out.

Yes but have you changed the Acc. setting

[woodworker]

I'm confused I have a piece of paper (came with the machine) written on the back in pencil are the dip switches, looks like they are all wrong paper says
123 off =1.5a with a tick next to it
sw4 = on Half current
Micro step 5678
5=off
6=off
7=on
8=off
to me it looks completely transposed could this be it....

[phill05]

I might be wrong but I think it should be sw1-off sw2-on sw3-off = 3.7 amps, 5=on 6=on 7=off 8=on that's 1/8th micro

[cropwell]

Series Model Step Angle (°) Motor Length (mm) Rated Current (A) Phase Resistance (Ω) Phase Inductance (mH) Holding Torque (N.m Min) Detent Torque (N.cm Max) Rotor Inertia (g.cm²) Lead Wire (No.) Motor Weight (g)
23HS0405 1.8 41 0.62 12 24 0.55 2.5 150 4 470
23HS0408 1.8 41 2.0 1.2 2.5 0.55 2.5 150 4 470
23HS4412 1.8 45 0.62 12 26 0.8 2.8 190 4 520
23HS4425 1.8 45 2.5 1.0 2.2 0.8 2.8 190 4 520
23HS5406 1.8 51 0.62 13 28 1.0 2.8 190 4 520
23HS5425 1.8 51 2.5 1.2 3.2 1.0 2.8 190 4 520
23HS6602 1.8 56 1.5 3.2 5.5 0.9 3.5 280 6 590
23HS6430 1.8 56 3.0 0.8 2.4 1.1 3.5 280 4 680
23HS6404 1.8 56 4.2 0.4 1.2 1.1 3.5 280 4 680
23HS7401 1.8 64 1.0 7.5 20 1.5 5.0 380 4 850
23HS7430 1.8 64 3.0 0.8 2.3 1.5 5.0 380 4 850
23HS7404 1.8 64 4.2 0.55 1.2 1.5 5.0 380 4 850
23HS8430 1.8 76 3.0 1.0 3.5 1.8 6.0 440 4 1050
23HS8404 1.8 76 4.2 0.6 1.8 1.8 6.0 440 4 1050
23HS1430 1.8 100 3.0 1.4 5.5 2.5 10 680 4 1250
23HS1404 1.8 100 4.2 0.8 3.0 2.5 10 680 4 1250
23HS2430 1.8 112 3.0 1.6 6.8 2.8 12 800 4 1400
23HS2404 1.8 112 4.2 0.9 3.8 2.5 12 800 4 1400

[woodworker]

think 568 should be off and 7 on = 8 microsteps currently set to 256
how can I tell the amps for the motor?

[woodworker]

well found sir thank you so my current settings 4.5 should be ok?

[woodworker]

right changed the dip switches to 4.2amp as per motor info left everything else as is :) feeling positive now thanks everyone, its now cutting motors are little warm but then if they have been under powered by almost 3 amps no wonder.

[woodworker]

Nope well I tried to make another box today more fire wood, still messing about motors got quite warm so think I might drop the voltage a bit. So checked the PC its running xp pro service pack 2 barely any services switched of all networking as well as its in my workshop, anyone any ideas? motors (mainly X but not exclusively) sometimes just squeal instead of moving until the next line of code is sent then moves on to destroy the work as its in the wrong place now. Cant think whats left to check slowed it right down as well low acceleration speed etc. HELP!

[cropwell]

Without reading back through the thread, I seem to remember that you have checked that there is no binding or slipping. So I would suggest that you check each motor with a bit of Gcode that just spins the motor, stops and spins it back to the original position. Then, if that doesn't work, try it without the belt, so the motor runs freely. If the motor locks and squeals, then you are sending pulses too fast for the motor to cope with and it is stalling.

I have done a little vid of a motor sent into a stall. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5tsbr4kd9sze0h/WP_20171014_17_02_56_Pro.mp4?dl=0 When the motor is in a frame, then it will sound louder.

BTW, the motor got too warm to pick up after about 5 - 10 mins of spinning, this is normal.

[woodworker]

thanks for the video I have checked all the belts all in good condition I can also move the pulleys by hand no issues ran the motors couldnt get to stall although it seems to be intermittent on all axis espcially when first ran. I have reduced the power to 3.2amps seems fine on this motors are much better it does sound a bit rough, had enough today will continue tomorrow I'm wondering if their was more than one issue here, going to play with the acc and speed see if I can nail this down.

[Clive S]

Nope well I tried to make another box today more fire wood, still messing about motors got quite warm so think I might drop the voltage a bit. So checked the PC its running xp pro service pack 2 barely any services switched of all networking as well as its in my workshop, anyone any ideas? motors (mainly X but not exclusively) sometimes just squeal instead of moving until the next line of code is sent then moves on to destroy the work as its in the wrong place now. Cant think whats left to check slowed it right down as well low acceleration speed etc. HELP!

To solve this problem you are going to have to answer the questions that have been put to you.

This line (Cant think whats left to check slowed it right down as well low acceleration speed etc.) does not say anything , What have you changed the setting from and what are they now !!

Lowering the voltage might make it worse. What is the voltage you are running the drives at? The motor do get warm and is normal if you can keep you hand on them they are not hot 50C is fine.

[woodworker]

so power now down from 4.2amp to 3.2amp motors ok heat wise. Steps are 1600 speed down from 900 100 acc recomended to 700 acc 50 this stall happens under load or not I actually tried to stop the machine by hand to put it under strain no chance. stall can happen on any axis but mostly x . I ran the driver test computer came back excellent, no background programs running cut out all nonessential services its so fast. I'm running out of ideas

[Clive S]

so power now down from 4.2amp to 3.2amp motors ok heat wise. Steps are 1600 speed down from 900 100 acc recomended to 700 acc 50 this stall happens under load or not I actually tried to stop the machine by hand to put it under strain no chance. stall can happen on any axis but mostly x . I ran the driver test computer came back excellent, no background programs running cut out all nonessential services its so fast. I'm running out of ideas

OK this could be a noise issue. have you tried it cutting fresh air? have you tried it without the spindle running.

[woodworker]

yes I fitted a laser pointer so I could trace the movements let it run on a couple of cycles it still stalled so sadly no noise issues as far as I know. sorry if I havent explained myself so well Ive been running backwards and forwards to the workshop all day trying various different things and I am a complete noob.

[Clive S]

it still stalled so sadly no noise issues as far as I knowWhat make you think there is no noise issues?

Have you tried just using the x axis with a cut and then the Y axis with a cut to see if any one of those stalls

[woodworker]

I mean it stalls with no cutting at all I thought you meant noise from the router. its so random, and intermittent I am now investigating the PC as this problem has control all over it. If this turns out to be ok I will look again at the movement, tomorrow will tell.

[Clive S]

I mean it stalls with no cutting at all I thought you meant noise from the router. its so random, and intermittent I am now investigating the PC as this problem has control all over it. If this turns out to be ok I will look again at the movement, tomorrow will tell.

Google EMI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_interference It is very common if the wires are not screened.

[woodworker]

Its working after a complete computer rebuild new graphics card I have ran it for 2 days with not once did it make that awful sound in fact it ran for 3 hours constant today it didnt put a foot wrong so thank you everyone for the information and help, now how do I make money with it :).

[magicniner]

now how do I make money with it :).

Design and make things that people want to buy which no one else makes.

Simples! ;-)

[woodworker]

:tears_of_joy: Its working after a complete computer rebuild new graphics card I have ran it for 2 days without it making that awful sound in fact it ran for 3 hours constant today it didnt put a foot wrong so thank you everyone for the information and help, now how do I make money with it :glee: