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NFryer
12-12-2017, 03:48 PM
I've designed a router based on aluminium extrusion and would like to see if the experts on the forums have any advice or can point any silly errors that I've made.

The cutting area is roughly 600*1000 and it will mainly be used for hardwood cutting although it would be useful if I could do some aluminium as well. I've gone for a Z travel of 180mm as I would like to add a 4th rotary axis at a later date, but I'm not sure if that would adversely affect how it cuts aluminium.

I'm going to use Hiwin 20mm rails and carriages, with a 1605 ballscrew on the Z and 1610 on the Y and X axes. I was going to get the ballscrews from BST Automation and was wondering if anybody had used the 400W 60ST-M01330 servo motors that he sells, and if that is powerful enough to drive the X Axis.

I've designed it so there is about 40mm of spindle travel beyond the front of the bed, so I can cut the ends of larger items.

As for electronics, at this point I would love to use one of the CSMIO controllers.


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routercnc
12-12-2017, 10:28 PM
Not used those servos but the design is looking good and will run great with steppers

NFryer
30-12-2017, 01:11 PM
I've had a bit of spare over Christmas so I've made a start in making some parts for the router. I used my router table to precisely size a couple of parts using a standard tungsten carbide straight cutter. I managed to get about 0.1mm accuracy across the piece and from end to end. With a bit of cutting oil added the finish was really good as well. I also marked out a couple of pieces, drilled some holes and did some tapping on my pillar drill using a spring loaded tap guide.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/b83b948ef16a001481f921d1349cafd7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/e55937c8cd071b21bc18de5a098cbbe3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/c370226078575d6262246ca37d39e90b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/eb646166799306239003c8f7b7b7523f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/692aa784cb7d3b8bfe89f58725abc0ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171230/aac77ed2ea2e08b240cb0409dce7fb56.jpg


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NFryer
04-01-2018, 10:13 PM
If you need any custom made ballscrews I can really recommend Fred at BST Automation on AliExpress. I have just ordered 4 ballscrews from him with no problems and very quick delivery to the UK. He has great customer service, responded to my emails very quickly, better than some companies here. I won't be building the router as quickly now as I'm back at work, but I've got a bit of the Z axis completed now.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/b5563ddcbe6ebb00d02afc3950d3fd12.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/92fa038d031d6f9db58d3e715aac80d1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/f35b6c88c791f614cd7de3f89fea081c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180104/1f7f7baaaf38321054b779ea88340077.jpg


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Nickhofen
05-01-2018, 12:16 PM
Nice start!
The table router helps a lot to trim aluminium parts, I trim an aluminium angle I cut with the cutting disk and the result is very good!
I 'll be watching! ;-)

NFryer
05-01-2018, 04:24 PM
Nice start!
The table router helps a lot to trim aluminium parts, I trim an aluminium angle I cut with the cutting disk and the result is very good!
I 'll be watching! ;-)

It was the first time I had tried to do this type of metalwork, up to now I have mostly done woodworking. With the addition of the cutting oil I was very happy with the surface finish and how accurate I could get the overall size of the pieces. Using an Irwin aluminium cutting blade on the table saw also gives a very reasonable finish to the cut pieces and using a crosscut sled gives pretty good accuracy.


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NFryer
03-02-2018, 08:41 PM
I managed to get some more done on the Z axis today and had a go at milling out the motor mount. I made a template out of 5mm HDPE to use with a template following bush in my router. With a 8mm end mill I made 0.5mm passed to slowly mill out the mount to the desired depth. For the large slot I used the same end mill, but for the small slots I had to drill a series of holes and file the sides flat.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/93320e143e0e954655781f9f2a2d8b84.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/57d9e030f18d389af7ca74beb7432f7f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/593335e5bf9a59906c19cf021e89c01b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/82e25138c2002968bb3550c7456beaba.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180203/a90b31e5597a26892d669e7a1e7fb0a2.jpg


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Nickhofen
03-02-2018, 10:22 PM
Nice!

NFryer
18-02-2018, 11:29 PM
I've got a bit more work done and have made the Z axis end plates. These were quite complex and I started with a large rectangle of 12mm aluminium. I used the table saw to cut the bottom leg and then drilled 16mm holes in the corners of the middle part to be removed. I roughly cut the shape out using a bandsaw and neatened the edges using an end mill in my router. The curved parts were roughly cut on the bandsaw and neatened up using an oscillating bobbin sander. Finally I drilled the bolt holes and the hole for the inductive proximity sensor. I've left the top motor mount a bit longer as I'm going to mount the Y axis drag chains to it and have yet to finalise the exact position of it. On a side note I've had a really good run selling a load of old car audio gear on eBay and have made over £1500 pounds so I'm seriously tempted to go with a complete CS Labs system, using their motion controller, simDrive servo controllers, servo drives and power supply.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/74152c2fee9b002c62469747c5860c0d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/45bb025d8b6723f71f2f8e630778b505.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/cf17033b16934d674d53dd05fb7e9bc9.jpg


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Nr1madman
20-02-2018, 08:04 AM
I've got a bit more work done and have made the Z axis end plates. These were quite complex and I started with a large rectangle of 12mm aluminium. I used the table saw to cut the bottom leg and then drilled 16mm holes in the corners of the middle part to be removed. I roughly cut the shape out using a bandsaw and neatened the edges using an end mill in my router. The curved parts were roughly cut on the bandsaw and neatened up using an oscillating bobbin sander. Finally I drilled the bolt holes and the hole for the inductive proximity sensor. I've left the top motor mount a bit longer as I'm going to mount the Y axis drag chains to it and have yet to finalise the exact position of it. On a side note I've had a really good run selling a load of old car audio gear on eBay and have made over £1500 pounds so I'm seriously tempted to go with a complete CS Labs system, using their motion controller, simDrive servo controllers, servo drives and power supply.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/74152c2fee9b002c62469747c5860c0d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/45bb025d8b6723f71f2f8e630778b505.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180218/cf17033b16934d674d53dd05fb7e9bc9.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBeautiful work!

Im amazed at the stuff you do with basic tools..

Keep it up!

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JAZZCNC
20-02-2018, 04:33 PM
On a side note I've had a really good run selling a load of old car audio gear on eBay and have made over £1500 pounds so I'm seriously tempted to go with a complete CS Labs system, using their motion controller, simDrive servo controllers, servo drives and power supply.

Making nice job of that.

Can I ask why you want to use servo's and what do you think they are going to offer over good Closed loop Stepper system on router this small size.?

NFryer
20-02-2018, 07:48 PM
Beautiful work!

Im amazed at the stuff you do with basic tools..

Keep it up!

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk

Hi, thanks for the compliment, I'm quite surprised at how well the build is going myself. I have discovered however that the aluminium cuts a lot like high density hardwoods such as english oak, african blackwood or leadwood, although things need to be well clamped as the aluminium is a bit grabby. In others way it is easier as with a bit of cutting oil you can get really good cuts and keep the cutter cooler than when cutting the hardwoods. I cut a 35mm diameter by 12mm deep hole in one of the gantry end plates for the FF12 ballscrew support just with a standard forstner bit. With the addition of the cutting oil the bit never got very hot and when I had finished it was cool enough that I could hold it, definitely not the case when cutting the denser hardwoods with the same forstner bit.

NFryer
20-02-2018, 07:58 PM
Making nice job of that.

Can I ask why you want to use servo's and what do you think they are going to offer over good Closed loop Stepper system on router this small size.?

Hi Jazz, thanks for the interest, I just posted the thought as I was hoping to get some feedback. I haven't really gone into the electrical side of the router as yet. I assume that on a router this side the extra speed of servo's isn't needed but do they run smoother than steppers? I might eventually build a lot larger router if this build goes well, and I thought of learning with servo's on this build. By closed loop stepper system I assume you mean a digital drive and a stepper motor with encoder feedback? I'm totally open to advise from you as you have way more experience than me and any pearls of wisdom would be gratefully received.

JAZZCNC
21-02-2018, 12:20 AM
By closed loop stepper system I assume you mean a digital drive and a stepper motor with encoder feedback?

Yes exactly that.
There are four main advantages to servo over a Closed-loop stepper. #1 Speed #2 torque #3 Smoothness #4 Resolution
But what you really have to do is examine the differences and ask your self-do i really need to spend 4 to 5x more per axis for percentage difference they give on a machine of this size for what your going to do with it.?
Lets look at differences.
#1 Speed.
The difference between 3 phase Closed Stepper is 1500rpm vs 3000rpm. So twice the speed but In real world terms this mostly applies to Rapid speed only because cutting speeds are mostly dictated by tool and material not the motors.
1500rpm with 10mm pitch will give 15,000mm Rapid speeds and easily allow 7-9000mm/min cutting speeds in most materials.
Now 15,000mm/min covers 250mm per second so with travel of 1000mm your end to end in 4secs. Now obvioulsy got to factor in accelration/deceleration etc but you see even with stepper motors your not speed limited.

#2 Torque. This is where servo's really win over Steppers because they have full torque rating at Max rpm and upto 3x torque rating for period of few secs if required.
Stepper system on the other hand only gets close to full torque rating when stood still then starts to drop away as rpm increase untill point when completely losses torque and motor stalls at point when motor gets saturated. Gets little deep as to why but usable rpm range for stepper is 1200-1500rpm dependant on setup/voltage. I know from expereince 3 phase closed loop motors tend allow 1500rpm max.

Now if your trying to move heavy Mass at high speed or accelerate/de-accelerate at very high speed then Constant torque of servo is what you need. However on Small/Medium router with relatively light/Medium weight(upto75Kg) gantry then correctly sized Stepper system which is tuned correctly will give more than good enough performance.

#3 Smoothness
No doubt Servo's are smoother than steppers, provided they are tuned and setup correctly. However again unless doing very high detailed 3D type work or work that requires very high quality surface finishes then the difference isn't really enough to justify spending 4x the cost.

#4 Resolution
This basicly means smallest travel amount. The Encoder fitted on servo dictates resolution and to large degree smoothness of the motor.
The higher the Encoder count the smaller the travel distance and smoother the action of the motor. It also dictates to some degree the motor speed when combined with pulse rate. Higher the count the more pulses are required to reach rated rpm.! . . . .But for now lets just think about resolution.
Typical servo will use 2500CPR encoder CPR stands for counts per rev. However this is little missleading because of how they work and in actually fact the encoder will typicly be quadrature encoder meaning uses 2 channels A/B which are 90deg out of phase and because it reads the leading and trailing edge of each channel this becomes x4 hence quadrature.
So total counts per Rev is 10,000 or 0.036deg of movement per Encoder count or if connected to 10mm pitch screw becomes 0.001mm travel per Encoder count.

Stepper motor on the other hand works differently in that you set number of steps per rev which then get broken down into micro steps by drive. Typical stepper will use 1.8degree or 200 steps per rev which then each step gets broken down into Micro steps depending on setting within the drive.
Closed loop steppers come in 2 flavours 2 phase or 3 phase. 3 Phase stepper gives finer resolution because the steps are less typicly 0.9deg or 1.2deg.
Typical Micro step to apply is 1600 so I'll work on lower resolution 1.8degree stepper to calculate. 360deg /1600 =0.225deg or with 10mm pitch 0.006mm travel per Micro step.
Now this is little false because the truth is some loss will occur to fact difficult for motor to actually resolve to this degree. So if we take worst case scenario and use 200 steps which is called full stepping the smallest travel amount becomes 0.05mm. In real world use you'll easily achieve 800Ms giving 0.0125mm.
Closed loop systems use Hybrid setup which works between Stepper and Servo using lower count encoder typicly 1000CPR (x4) so when combined with 3 phase 1.2deg motor gives 0.0025mm with 10mm pitch.

So has you can see in terms of actuall travel distance both give more than enough resolution the main difference of servos higher encoder count being motor smoothness. This does however come at cost of requiring more powerful pulse engine, which isn't problem with cslabs anyway but can be for other lesser cards.

So the real point of this lecture being is it really worth paying 4 to 5 x per axis more for the extra speed you won't use, Torque you won't need, resolution you can't use and with the only real viable contender being slightly smoother movement.?

Then factor into the mix the potential complexitys of setting up servos, which these days is much simpler. However they don't tolerate poor setup or sloppy electrics and require higher degree of eletrical work to avoid potential problems which can affect them. Ie Electrical interference.
This add's to expense because will require line filters etc and highe quality cables which stepper system will happily run without.

Stepper systems in general are bullet proof when sized and installed/setup correctly.

My advise is save the Money and spend in other areas. Ie Spindle or better ballscrews.
You'll probaly save £300 per axis so that's £1200 which would go nicely towards an ATC spindle.!!

AndyGuid
21-02-2018, 12:32 PM
I have discovered however that the aluminium cuts a lot like high density hardwoods such as english oak, african blackwood or leadwood, although things need to be well clamped as the aluminium is a bit grabby.

In other ways it is easier as with a bit of cutting oil you can get really good cuts and keep the cutter cooler than when cutting the hardwoods.

I cut a 35mm diameter by 12mm deep hole in one of the gantry end plates for the FF12 ballscrew support just with a standard forstner bit.

With the addition of the cutting oil the bit never got very hot and when I had finished it was cool enough that I could hold it, definitely not the case when cutting the denser hardwoods with the same forstner bit.

Thanks for that very useful info!
Andy

NFryer
21-02-2018, 10:23 PM
So the real point of this lecture being is it really worth paying 4 to 5 x per axis more for the extra speed you won't use, Torque you won't need, resolution you can't use and with the only real viable contender being slightly smoother movement.?

Then factor into the mix the potential complexitys of setting up servos, which these days is much simpler. However they don't tolerate poor setup or sloppy electrics and require higher degree of eletrical work to avoid potential problems which can affect them. Ie Electrical interference.
This add's to expense because will require line filters etc and highe quality cables which stepper system will happily run without.

Stepper systems in general are bullet proof when sized and installed/setup correctly.

My advise is save the Money and spend in other areas. Ie Spindle or better ballscrews.
You'll probaly save £300 per axis so that's £1200 which would go nicely towards an ATC spindle.!!

Hi Jazz, thank you for that wealth of information, it is much appreciated. Well I think that I will go the closed loop stepper route. Having a quick look around the Leadshine CS-D508 combined with the NEMA 24 3Nm ES-M22430 seem like a good option. Would a 3Nm stepper be enough to drive the twin ballscrew X axis or do you think I would need a NEMA 34 motor. Having said that i would like a add a 4th rotary axis at some point and mount that at the back when the belt goes across to connect the X axis ballscrew so I might go twin motors on the X axis with the CSMIO to drive them. By ATC spindle do you mean auto tool change spindle?

NFryer
22-02-2018, 12:16 AM
Thanks for that very useful info!
Andy

I forgot to add that when I used the forstner bits I had to drill a pilot hole through the aluminium as the centre part of the forstner bit won't cut the aluminium. For example I used a 4mm drill for a 36mm forstner bit which also acted as a good guide to get the bit started. Anyhow I got the hole drilled out for the FK12 bearing and test fitted it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180221/a6d44cfc44624e2c5d8f9e19cc97ce83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180221/f7ed77298384aeef789de0c49d7744c1.jpg


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JAZZCNC
22-02-2018, 11:17 PM
Would a 3Nm stepper be enough to drive the twin ballscrew X axis or do you think I would need a NEMA 34 motor. Having said that i would like a add a 4th rotary axis at some point and mount that at the back when the belt goes across to connect the X axis ballscrew so I might go twin motors on the X axis with the CSMIO to drive them. By ATC spindle do you mean auto tool change spindle?

No 3Nm won't be enough for 2 screws but would if had motor on each screw. Single motor you'll need 6 or 8nm nema 34.
I've used these on couple of bigger machines, nice drives and motors and never had any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Nema34-7-2Nm-Closed-Loop-Stepper-Hybrid-Servo-with-Digital-Display-and-Encoder/1907567_32764541564.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.3f3 4a881y5B3hn

Yes ATC = Auto tool changer.

23805

NFryer
25-02-2018, 10:15 PM
No 3Nm won't be enough for 2 screws but would if had motor on each screw. Single motor you'll need 6 or 8nm nema 34.
I've used these on couple of bigger machines, nice drives and motors and never had any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Nema34-7-2Nm-Closed-Loop-Stepper-Hybrid-Servo-with-Digital-Display-and-Encoder/1907567_32764541564.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.3f3 4a881y5B3hn

Yes ATC = Auto tool changer.

23805

Hi Jazz, that Lichuan drive does look very nice, if I go down the nema 34 route instead of twin motors on the X axis. For the nema 24 motors I was looking at the Leadshine CS-D508 drive which appears to be very similar to the Lichuan LCD375H drive or maybe the Leadshine ES-D808 which I think is similar to the Lichaun LCDA808H that you used. On a side note I wouldn't mind supporting UK companies like Zapp but the price difference is huge. From Aliexpress I could get 4 ES-D808 drives and 4 ES-M22430 motors for under £600 and from Zapp the same price is nearly £1200! Even if you get charged £100 from customs this is a no brainer to buy from China. Even a CSMIO IP-S is roughly £150 cheaper if you buy it directly from CS Labs, and there is no customs charge as it's from the EU. I've got another small question, how much distance does the motor shaft have to go into the HTD pulley. If I used 15mm belts and pulleys which are approximately 25 to 30mm wide, if I loose 3mm to the mount would there still be enough shaft length to securely hold the pulley?

JAZZCNC
25-02-2018, 11:04 PM
Hi Jazz, that Lichuan drive does look very nice, if I go down the nema 34 route instead of twin motors on the X axis. For the nema 24 motors I was looking at the Leadshine CS-D508 drive which appears to be very similar to the Lichuan LCD375H drive or maybe the Leadshine ES-D808 which I think is similar to the Lichaun LCDA808H that you used.

I've also used the LCD375H and they are ok as well but let down by only being 50V which means running around 44V which ideally more would be better.
2383323832



Even a CSMIO IP-S is roughly £150 cheaper if you buy it directly from CS Labs, and there is no customs charge as it's from the EU.

Carefull here because in Poland you'll pay I think it's 23% Vat on top of web price shown then think it's about £36 carriage so difference might not be that big. Gary doesn't charge shippping over £250.


I've got another small question, how much distance does the motor shaft have to go into the HTD pulley. If I used 15mm belts and pulleys which are approximately 25 to 30mm wide, if I loose 3mm to the mount would there still be enough shaft length to securely hold the pulley?

If what your saying is you'll lose 3mm. Ie: lets say pulley boss is 30mm wide and your 27mm into it then yes that will be perfectly fine.
Can get away with 3/4 into the the pulley width any less and your pushing it.

NFryer
28-02-2018, 09:58 PM
If what your saying is you'll lose 3mm. Ie: lets say pulley boss is 30mm wide and your 27mm into it then yes that will be perfectly fine.
Can get away with 3/4 into the the pulley width any less and your pushing it.

Hi Jazz, reading a few of the forum threads, I think most people use the 5mm pitch HTD pulleys with 15mm wide belts. Is there a certain number of teeth engaged with the pulley for best torque transfer, as I was looking at maybe the 20 tooth pulley, which is 26mm wide. The motor shaft with give me about 20mm so this should be ok I think. On the ballscrew shafts do you file flats onto the end to give the grub screws a better bite on it?

As for the ATC spindle my take on this is that I would need the ATC spindle, some form of linear or round tool holder, a compressor as I think that the tools are held in the spindle with pneumatics. How do the tool changes work, are they programmed into the G code that Mach 3 processes. I Have seen that each tool on a linear tool holder has a seperate set of coordinates and the tool height is reset each time and with the circular holders you need to rotate the holder to select tools, how is this programmed in. It all seems a bit complicated to me.

JAZZCNC
01-03-2018, 12:24 AM
Hi Jazz, reading a few of the forum threads, I think most people use the 5mm pitch HTD pulleys with 15mm wide belts. Is there a certain number of teeth engaged with the pulley for best torque transfer, as I was looking at maybe the 20 tooth pulley, which is 26mm wide.
They say should have 6 or more teeth engaged on the smallest pulley.
Regards the 20T then yes these are fine and what I often use. However it does depend on the Motor shaft to some degree because of the Boss diameter. If using large motors you may have to increase pulley size to suit a Boss that gives enough material left for grub screws after being bored.



On the ballscrew shafts do you file flats onto the end to give the grub screws a better bite on it?

Yes and I use 3 Grub screws in each pulley plus I locitite them on using Strong loctite.



As for the ATC spindle my take on this is that I would need the ATC spindle, some form of linear or round tool holder, a compressor as I think that the tools are held in the spindle with pneumatics.
Yes need compressor for draw bar that pulls toolholder into spindle and also some have Air purge on the taper to keep clean.
The tool holders you can buy. Like these.!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-hardness-plastics-BT30-ISO30-toolsholder-cnc-milling-machine-spindle-ATC-Machining-Center-Automatic-Tool-Change/32318032946.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb 201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10324 _10342_10547_10325_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_1 0190_10084_10083_10618_10630_10307_10301_10303_572 2316_5711213_10313_10059_10184_10534_100031_10103_ 10627_10626_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_10142_57 11313,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=9bb0662e-6644-40fc-baf3-68910f01f1d6-37&algo_pvid=9bb0662e-6644-40fc-baf3-68910f01f1d6&transAbTest=ae803_3&priceBeautifyAB=0


How do the tool changes work, are they programmed into the G code that Mach 3 processes. I Have seen that each tool on a linear tool holder has a seperate set of coordinates and the tool height is reset each time and with the circular holders you need to rotate the holder to select tools, how is this programmed in. It all seems a bit complicated to me.

Not in the G-code but into the M6 tool change macro which mach3 uses every time you call for tool in your G-code.
In the G-code each tool change will be called with command like T1 M06. This then tells mach to run M6 macro and change to tool #1.

The M6 macro is where you put all the code required to operate the tool changer. Depending on the type of tool changer will determine how difficult. For instance rack mounted tool holders are easier to code because you just provide coordinates each tool is located in the rack.
Obviously you have to keep track of current tool and tell it where to put back before going to get new tool. Also need to operate few external bits of hardware like Air solenoids at the right times and tell how far lift up and put down etc but in general it's not massive job to create a tool change macro for rack mount.
Now carousel type gets little more involved because lots more going on. Got things whizzing in/out and spinning round which need to be monitored before next step can happen. Then got to keep track of tool again so gets put back in empty holder then decide which way to spin for next tool etc.

So yes could say "It's all bit complicated" but still do-able. Basicly just copy some body else M6 macro and make it fit your needs..Lol

NFryer
04-03-2018, 09:32 PM
Hi, everyone, hope you haven't had too much trouble in the snow. I've got some more work done on the router, the gantry end plates, X axis carriage plates and reinforcement plates. I haven't quite finished the motor mount in the gantry end plate, but I wanted to get the bits assembled to see if the Y axis ballscrew that I got fitted, and much to my relief it did. I've just started to mount the channel which will support the Y axis drag chain.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180304/94569e9bf80dd9f4f0d34d25f0ca455f.jpg
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NFryer
04-03-2018, 10:19 PM
Yes and I use 3 Grub screws in each pulley plus I locitite them on using Strong loctite.

Hi Jazz, that's the red loctite isn't it? Do you use the blue loctite on other bolts in the machine or is bolts loosening due to vibration not such a problem.

Going back to the ATC spindle have you used one of the Mechatron tool change adaptors for a normal spindle which I found on Sorotec's website https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-80mm-spindle.html. I think that to get started I would prefer a normal spindle to learn the basics of cnc machining and then to upgrade using this adaptor at a later date.

Finally I'm not the best with the electrical side of things. I shouldn't have a problem building a power supply for the drives, but I'm a bit confused with the wiring between the CSMIO and the drive. I was looking at the Lichuan drive and the Leadshine easy servo drive and both seem to accept 24V input with the use of current limiting resistors on the step and direction inputs for single ended. For the differential connection do you not need the resistors as in the data sheets, the differential connections are shown with a 5V connection. Can you not directly connect the drives to the CSMIO, or do you have to reduce the voltage for the differential connection.

NFryer
05-03-2018, 11:25 PM
Just a small update to follow on from the last one, I got a pair of small supports made to fix the Y axis drag chain support channel to the back of the gantry end plates.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180305/de314098420a4c2c6232353225d976c8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180305/4713a0be0b23159c9c04e4396cc2fed7.jpg


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routercnc
06-03-2018, 07:00 AM
Looking good

NFryer
06-03-2018, 01:50 PM
Looking good

Thanks, it's not going too badly. I want the machine to look good, hence countersinking all the cap head bolts, tucking away the motors and not having them stick out and rounding and slope cutting bit like the gantry end plates. It probably won't add any to the performance of the machine but it should look good and sleek.


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JAZZCNC
06-03-2018, 05:13 PM
Hi Jazz, that's the red loctite isn't it? Do you use the blue loctite on other bolts in the machine or is bolts loosening due to vibration not such a problem.

Yes Red on anything that don't want to slip or move. Blue on anything that just want to stop coming loose.


Going back to the ATC spindle have you used one of the Mechatron tool change adaptors for a normal spindle which I found on Sorotec's website https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-change-adapters-80mm-spindle.html. I think that to get started I would prefer a normal spindle to learn the basics of cnc machining and then to upgrade using this adaptor at a later date.

No I havent and not sure what to think about this design.? I'd be worried about runout and stress on the spindle. Think I'd be giving it a miss and going with real thing. Would get stronger spindle with more torque and less runout.


I was looking at the Lichuan drive and the Leadshine easy servo drive and both seem to accept 24V input with the use of current limiting resistors on the step and direction inputs for single ended. For the differential connection do you not need the resistors as in the data sheets, the differential connections are shown with a 5V connection. Can you not directly connect the drives to the CSMIO, or do you have to reduce the voltage for the differential connection.

No don't need resistors the CSMIO Step/dir Outputs are 5v not 24v.

Richard
18-03-2018, 07:14 PM
I have yet to build a cnc router, but your build looks amazing! No access to a CNC mill or even a manual and you are turning out great parts...

Looking forward to seeing the finished machine and also seeing how it performs.

The design looked spot on and your skill in machining the parts is something to aspire to.

I am guessing you are an expert in woodworking!

Keep the updates coming!

NFryer
21-03-2018, 11:00 PM
I have yet to build a cnc router, but your build looks amazing! No access to a CNC mill or even a manual and you are turning out great parts...

Looking forward to seeing the finished machine and also seeing how it performs.

The design looked spot on and your skill in machining the parts is something to aspire to.

I am guessing you are an expert in woodworking!

Keep the updates coming!

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the compliments, I have done quite a bit woodworking in the past. I've never however done any metalwork with the accuracy needed to build a CNC machine. I took a while to learn the basics of Fusion 360 and model the design and this has helped a lot with visualising the design. You can also isolate individual parts so it's easy to layout, check and make the parts.


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NFryer
21-03-2018, 11:36 PM
I've now got the inductive limit sensors mounted for the z and y axes. I've got a 2 core CY cable to supply the power and a 4 core CY cable for the signal outputs. I used a couple of 5 way terminal blocks to connect the power leads of each sensor. I also tested a sensor and it seems to work well on aluminium with the output dropping to 0V when it is approximately 4mm away from it.

I've also got the aluminium profile that I need to build the frame from KJN Aluminium Profiles. They provided me a very good customer and the profile seems to be cut very accurately and pretty much bang on square as well.

Finally I had a bit of a puzzling problem with the Y axis ballscrew. As I was moving the Z axis along it would get harder to move towards either end of the travel. After a bit of measuring and checking I found that the 15mm plate the ballnut mount is fastened to was actually about 15.5mm thick which was enough to cause the problem. I took it apart and skimmed 0.5mm from it around the ballnut mount and put it back together. I tried to put the ballscrew back and found annoyingly that I couldn't. Apart it came again to skim the whole area to the side of the mount to allow the ballscrew to slide in.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180321/958db815a4279e2db6d35849f52130d1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180321/d2f6d8305c791009331633293200a1cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180321/2c5af140a896adbc0599634050034128.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180321/8bf34ac1946fb9aaaa4076fd13088847.jpg




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NFryer
03-04-2018, 11:45 PM
I've made a bit more progress in my CNC router build, and have made a start in building the basic frame out of 80*80 aluminium extrusion, some simple plates that I made and some 80mm aluminium equal angle. I've also made some simple plates to bolt onto the bottom of the legs to which I can screw in some levelling feet. With the plates I smoothed the edges on a disc sander and gave them a overall sanding with wet and dry sandpaper. Not entirely necessary but they do look neat and a bit shiny.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/204572e317654ae2840027f1d6cbea02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/2d56d77f887c86fa5284a8ff60628c0a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/ffea9d0544a7b02e43b4e721e68a58b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/9b65f38b2fe31ebf0590d5dbc626226b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/52b616ee390113979d78440e096ae261.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/1f1138dfbb331812d713c095118db2d4.jpg


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routercnc
03-04-2018, 11:58 PM
Nice work there !

CNCKitMan
04-04-2018, 04:22 AM
tasty mate!

Nr1madman
04-04-2018, 06:49 AM
Those are some sexy plates :D

Well done!

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NFryer
21-05-2018, 07:51 PM
Just a small progress update on my build, unfortunately I haven't had as much time recently to get on with the build. I have drilled and tapped the plates which have the x axis linear rails fastened to them and started on the x axis end plates which support the x axis ballscrew. On one I still need to rout out the motor mount which will be slightly different than on the original plan as the pulley on the ballscrew is a bit further away from the end plate than I thought it would. I intend to rout out a simple rectangular hole in the end plate and make a 6mm plate with the adjustment slots to bolt to the end plate. I've also accurately measured the cross rails and x axis rails and got some 0.25mm stainless steel shim stock to take up any differences. To get an accurate length I used a shorter length of aluminium profile and measured the difference between it and the piece I wanted to know the length of. That way you don't need to measure the entire length of the profile.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/c8b88a9b780688737c938abe45da88d9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/4441ab0d3dc78735750020bb6979a07e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/ff9fe49ef066329efe5af15abf7f5ce9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/138bf566b2911c7c60ca4ebc4b646fda.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/3344267ceef0d3ee5370a535ef61a6e4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/e66edba0639fceb2866b736c8faaa5cd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180521/927630673ad6714736545e27b6cf214a.jpg


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NFryer
22-05-2018, 01:26 PM
Hi everyone, just a quick question regarding the design of the linear power supply for the stepper motors. I'm going with a transformer power supply and know to take into account the mains power supply variations to calculate the DC output but what margin should you leave for the voltage rise caused by the motors back EMF. Also I'm using quite a large toroidal transformer as I've got 4 motors to power, does anybody use inrush current limiting, as there are some nice looking 16A Sedlbauer current limiters on eBay at the moment for £30. Thanks in advance for any help.


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Clive S
22-05-2018, 05:26 PM
What size toroidal, what motors and what drives are you using? Too many varables

A_Camera
22-05-2018, 06:56 PM
Hi everyone, just a quick question regarding the design of the linear power supply for the stepper motors. I'm going with a transformer power supply and know to take into account the mains power supply variations to calculate the DC output but what margin should you leave for the voltage rise caused by the motors back EMF. Also I'm using quite a large toroidal transformer as I've got 4 motors to power, does anybody use inrush current limiting, as there are some nice looking 16A Sedlbauer current limiters on eBay at the moment for £30. Thanks in advance for any help.


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I am using inrush current limiter, I think it's a MUST have with toroidal transformers. If you have a mains fuse of 16A then you can use that one, but if your mains fuse is smaller then you should use a smaller one.

NFryer
22-05-2018, 09:47 PM
What size toroidal, what motors and what drives are you using? Too many varables

Hi Clive,

The drives and motors I'm using are the Leadshine Hybrid Stepper ones, HBS86 drive and 60HBM30-1000 NEMA24 motor. The drive has a maximum voltage rating of 80VDC. The toroidal transformer which I haven't got yet will probably be a 45VAC+45VAC 1000VA one from Airlink transformers. I did the following calculations to arrive at this, and if you see any obvious errors can you tell me.

The motors are 2 phase with a current of 5A per phase so 10A per motor. The motors have 4 power leads which means that they will probably be series wound so I think that the motors will pull approximately a third of the maximum, so about 3.3A per motor. I'm using 4 motors so the total current draw should be about 13A.

For the voltage I took the mains voltage +10% as a worst case so

45VAC + 10% = 49.5VAC
49.5VAC + 4% for transformer regulation = 51.5VAC
51.5 multiplied by 1.414 = 72VDC
72VDC - 2.2V for the bridge rectifier drop gives roughly 70VDC output.

Hopefully this is alright and I haven't made any obvious errors.

Clive S
22-05-2018, 11:56 PM
OK You might have been better with 8 wire motors wired in parallel as you would get more speed out of them I take it these are for a router. Although having said that I have no experience with the motors and drive you have.

I have 4 motors on my router running from a 500Va tx at about 70V with no problems. I doubt they would pull more than 8-9 A

Good luck with the build.

wiremonkey
23-05-2018, 06:43 PM
Woohoo! That is one stout build and very clean work, particularly for not having a mill. Seriously, great stuff. I missed the type of linear rails you're using and do you like them? Also, do you have a supplier. I'm in the USA.
Thanks

NFryer
24-05-2018, 10:24 AM
Woohoo! That is one stout build and very clean work, particularly for not having a mill. Seriously, great stuff. I missed the type of linear rails you're using and do you like them? Also, do you have a supplier. I'm in the USA.
Thanks

Thanks for the compliment about the work I've done and it maybe a bit of overkill but better stout than all flimsy. The rails I'm using are Hiwin 20mm ones together with narrow carriages on the Z axis and the wide ones on both the Y and X axes. I got them custom sized from a supplier here in the UK. If you want them you could try Fred at BST Automation on AliExpress. He sells Hiwin stuff and is a great supplier as I got a set of custom ballscrews from him and had no problems at all with them.


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wiremonkey
31-05-2018, 11:22 PM
MILLING WITH A ROUTER!? Impressive. Nice work!

NFryer
12-06-2018, 01:30 PM
Hi everyone, I've managed to get a bit more done on the router build, and have finished the 4 end plates which connect the 2 X axis aluminium extrusions, the corner legs and support the X axis ballscrews. I had to slightly alter the design as the ball screw on the fixed bearing end protruded through the end plate a bit more than anticipated. I had to make a simple rectangular cutout for the motor and a separate plate for the motor adjustment to tension the belt. To make the rectangular cutout I made a series of holes to get rid of most of the material and then used a end mill in the router and a template to neaten it up.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/9f104b0f86c349a1aae5afccece96d19.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/36bf0b0c37d8f907ef955ddb6bd6082a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/1f260d31c0fc59adaefcd0f3dc763afb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/924f9cb976e3976f7e3c54f3ee8f3b69.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/3c715e8eaf53e3aef5f8730e1da148a8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/8130aeab5d45a51332c59b648735f0bd.jpg

Nickhofen
12-06-2018, 01:39 PM
Nice work!

NFryer
12-06-2018, 01:43 PM
The second part of the update is the making of the motor mounting plates which were done in a similar way to the end plates. The 4 bolt slots were first drilled and then tidied up using the router and a end mill. This time I didn't use a template, just a side fence and 2 stops at the front and back. The centre slot was then made bigger then necessary to allow for larger pulleys to be used and because the motor face was not flat and had a raised centre part.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/455a342809f1f0763029b19ab54b06aa.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/d1cfd2473c9f50500a883b0eec66f2ea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/d369d83300edecddb9d918945c187a3b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/41f2e522603150e129c454cb5d221ce3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/0421f2b20ccfe2f7af15effcf77cd731.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/4d5205a1e0fcb81be7c19c492b2ed4c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/2651a1859405624f1555df884b29ce33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/4670428a978590f93065cc4b673e8a5f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180612/51f37b20df4b84ad6e0e0c652a51e262.jpg

routercnc
12-06-2018, 07:55 PM
Wonderful work. Anyone looking to build their first CNC machine without access to a mill should bookmark this thread as a great example of bootstrapping your way in.

NFryer
12-06-2018, 09:47 PM
Wonderful work. Anyone looking to build their first CNC machine without access to a mill should bookmark this thread as a great example of bootstrapping your way in.

Hi routercnc, thanks for the compliment, I've enjoyed following your MK4 build and watching the videos you have made. Believe it or not I haven't done much metalwork before, so this has been a voyage of discovery as well. I think some of my success has been in getting some proper layout tools such as the height gauge and optical punch off eBay and learning the basics of Fusion 360 which really helps visualise the parts and the design as a whole.


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NFryer
21-07-2018, 01:34 PM
Hi everyone, I've made a bit more progress with the build and have built the unregulated stepper PSU. I managed to get a cheap 2*45VAC toroidal transformer which is probably well over specification, but it was a good deal. It will easily power the 4 steppers and a 5th when I add a rotary axis at a later date. I decided to include a Sedlbauer inrush current limiter because of the toroid size, and spent a bit more money on 105 degree centigrade rated capacitors. I have used the aluminium base plate as a heatsink for the bridge regulator and used a heatsink thermal compound to get good heat transfer. I was pretty confident that I had wired the PSU correctly but decided to play it safe and power it up using a variac to gradually increase the mains voltage from zero up to 240VAC. It all went well and nothing went up in a cloud of smoke.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/1a511edac8cb8f9bfb60ac860bd0f43d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/5f2a55394092317276c416caf3972619.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/ebe2f0b443cbe28fee0239a16244fad3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/b96f88fcbe5f771a4875bbc154e5fa99.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180721/fb6ad9f4eaaa87dcc24910585b72724b.jpg


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cweeks
14-08-2018, 01:12 AM
I'm new to the forum. I very much like the look of this design and would like to have a crack at building it. What is the protocol for asking for plans or preferably CAD files ?

Clive S
14-08-2018, 08:52 AM
I'm new to the forum. I very much like the look of this design and would like to have a crack at building it. What is the protocol for asking for plans or preferably CAD files ?

It looks like you have been a member for 9-10 years. It is best to start your own thread and ask the questions there.

NFryer
16-08-2018, 10:26 PM
Hi everyone, I've got a couple of small updates on the build. Firstly I have made a couple of mounts for the inductive limit sensors on the x axis. I was originally going to mount them under the gantry carriage plate between the ballscrew and the carriages, but I realised that there was no way I could adjust them in that position so I had to move them to the outer edge of the plate. On the top of the plate I fastened a 4 way connector to take the 2 signals back across the gantry and bring power to them via a 4 way CY cable.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180816/8e1dc1fafa00cb112380dc5e7c63d608.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180816/25d96c93e9f8eebe87e598aad6fa3212.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180816/1ff6a3744c0d1fc393a748b7b686fbae.jpg


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Clive S
16-08-2018, 11:56 PM
Firstly I have made a couple of mounts for the inductive limit sensors on the x axis.

Had you thought about mounting them so that they can slide past the target rather than into it? You can also get away with one limit sensor and a fixed target at each end.

NFryer
17-08-2018, 01:40 PM
Had you thought about mounting them so that they can slide past the target rather than into it? You can also get away with one limit sensor and a fixed target at each end.

Hi Clive, I'm probably missing something very simple, but I just can't visualise how you could only use one sensor to limit travel at either end of the x axis. I didn't mention this explicitly but I'm not having separate limit and home sensors, so I assume that's not possible with one sensor?


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Clive S
17-08-2018, 02:01 PM
Hi Clive, I'm probably missing something very simple, but I just can't visualise how you could only use one sensor to limit travel at either end of the x axis. I didn't mention this explicitly but I'm not having separate limit and home sensors, so I assume that's not possible with one sensor?


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Ok imagine if you rotate the sensor by 90' and put a target at each end so that the sensor slide over it to trigger.

the target would not be a the complete end but a small distance from it to enable the gantry to travel to the end before it trips. This is done at both ends.

I believe Mach can use the sensor to home (then offset the home say 1mm) once homed Mach would then set it to be a limit switch. This way you would only need three sensors with three inputs. (not sure if you have a slaved axis ie two motors)

If you have two motors to slave you would need two home switches one for each side.

NFryer
18-08-2018, 01:50 PM
Ok imagine if you rotate the sensor by 90' and put a target at each end so that the sensor slide over it to trigger.

the target would not be a the complete end but a small distance from it to enable the gantry to travel to the end before it trips. This is done at both ends.

I believe Mach can use the sensor to home (then offset the home say 1mm) once homed Mach would then set it to be a limit switch. This way you would only need three sensors with three inputs. (not sure if you have a slaved axis ie two motors)

If you have two motors to slave you would need two home switches one for each side.

Hi Clive, once you mentioned rotating the sensor by 90' I understood what you meant, it'a a nice simple way of using one sensor. Unfortunately I've already done the X axis sensors, so can't change them, but it's something to remember if I change the design once built or build another machine.


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NFryer
27-08-2018, 01:39 PM
I've made a start on building the main frame for the router, and have made a couple of braces to fit between the middle pair of legs. A while back I built an angle cutting sled for my circular saw table which I used to cut the angles on the end of the aluminium extrusions. I also made a couple of simple plates to bolt the braces to the legs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/217557a7e26e29d73bdd3c61f50e1bc3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/8712b7963bf8a8d455ed7fc0eeedd316.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/913258f92fd8d501819e2179d247fdff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/10743c62d41ac490e14dbb5db050d29c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/675db69e1d6941476e7ec548f37a4b75.jpg


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Nr1madman
27-08-2018, 03:14 PM
Very sexy! :D

Keep up the awesome work!

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Nickhofen
27-08-2018, 03:20 PM
Nice,like a tank!

NFryer
19-09-2018, 04:24 PM
Following on from the previous post I've made 4 similar braces for the sides of the router frame and some simple plates to bolt them in. All of the main frame is now just about complete and can be bolted together in the garage in its final position.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/9c7f5cb11a0d45d723670c2f8ad14358.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/210f918e556f8d1e21131625ce3bba0c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/5c0f3951a2dad4edd1c081676b94604e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/072f01137c719b1640f14817c90617ee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/1b4d654fea9f5b5642290c4e4ea3e86a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/73f8ff9c2e6f88388c58132e9bd377d3.jpg


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Nr1madman
19-09-2018, 07:38 PM
Tank style :D

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driftspin
19-09-2018, 07:44 PM
Following on from the previous post I've made 4 similar braces for the sides of the router frame and some simple plates to bolt them in. All of the main frame is now just about complete and can be bolted together in the garage in its final position.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/9c7f5cb11a0d45d723670c2f8ad14358.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/210f918e556f8d1e21131625ce3bba0c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/5c0f3951a2dad4edd1c081676b94604e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/072f01137c719b1640f14817c90617ee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/1b4d654fea9f5b5642290c4e4ea3e86a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/73f8ff9c2e6f88388c58132e9bd377d3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLooking good !

Grtz Bert.

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NFryer
26-10-2018, 11:15 AM
Hi everyone, I've not really had much spare time to get on with the build, but I have started to look into the control panel build, and I could do with a bit of advice. For the stepper e-stop circuit is it safer to kill the power supply and disable the drivers or would it be just as good to merely disable the drivers and leave the power supply on. I intend to use an ABB inverter with an e-stop input and the STO function which disables the output of the inverter but still leaves it powered on, which is a bit like disabling the stepper drives, but leaving them still powered on. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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Chaz
27-10-2018, 11:18 AM
Hi everyone, I've not really had much spare time to get on with the build, but I have started to look into the control panel build, and I could do with a bit of advice. For the stepper e-stop circuit is it safer to kill the power supply and disable the drivers or would it be just as good to merely disable the drivers and leave the power supply on. I intend to use an ABB inverter with an e-stop input and the STO function which disables the output of the inverter but still leaves it powered on, which is a bit like disabling the stepper drives, but leaving them still powered on. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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Leave the PSU on, no need to kill power.

Neale
27-10-2018, 05:41 PM
I use a Pilz safety relay which is tripped by e-stop and by fault signals from stepper drivers (particularly if one of the dual X drive steppers stalls so the machine doesn't tear itself apart). The relay was a cheap "new but obsolete" one that cost £25 from eBay, which is the main reason I used one. However, it has multiple contact sets so I switch the stepper enable signal and the CSMIO motion controller e-stop signal (both of which should stop stepper movement almost instantaneously) and the stepper motor power supply mains input (which would stop steppers but not quite so immediately). One reason to switch the power is not so much for safety (although it was easy to do anyway) but to enable me to reset the stepper drivers in case one of them does go into fault condition. If a motor stalls (a rare event), I can reset by hitting e-stop and then resetting the machine. You need to consider how you would reset stepper drivers if they are configured to "fault" on error. Just a thought.

NFryer
28-10-2018, 07:28 PM
I use a Pilz safety relay which is tripped by e-stop and by fault signals from stepper drivers (particularly if one of the dual X drive steppers stalls so the machine doesn't tear itself apart). The relay was a cheap "new but obsolete" one that cost £25 from eBay, which is the main reason I used one. However, it has multiple contact sets so I switch the stepper enable signal and the CSMIO motion controller e-stop signal (both of which should stop stepper movement almost instantaneously) and the stepper motor power supply mains input (which would stop steppers but not quite so immediately). One reason to switch the power is not so much for safety (although it was easy to do anyway) but to enable me to reset the stepper drivers in case one of them does go into fault condition. If a motor stalls (a rare event), I can reset by hitting e-stop and then resetting the machine. You need to consider how you would reset stepper drivers if they are configured to "fault" on error. Just a thought.

Hi Neale, thanks for the great reply. What you've described is roughly what I had in mind. I got a used Schmersal safety relay, and intend to use the outputs to stop the drivers and inverter, and signal the CSMIO controller. What I had missed was the fact that you needed to kill the power to the drivers to reset them after a fault or stall. I might just add a button to switch the driver contactor on and off to reset the drives and then reset the safety relay.


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routercnc
01-11-2018, 09:20 PM
Hi Nick

The answer is for a DIY machine that you are the only user then it’s what you feel happy with.

My mk1 just used the estop pin on the breakout board and relied on that to stop sending stepper signals to the drivers and tell Mach3 to stop sending signals to the breakout board.
Had no issues for years with that setup.

For mk2 or 3 (can’t remember!) I made a proper control box with a safer estop circuit and better overall functionality. I have a master relay (not a proper Pilz style but the same principle) that has multiple outputs and one of these drops power to the contactor which controls the linear psu. Other outputs drop the self latch and drop power to the spindle relay which controls the VFD run/stop logic signal and drops the estop pin connection on the breakout board so Mach 3 knows to stop. My drives don’t have stall detect etc so my only reason was a bit more piece of mind. I’m reusing most of this for the current mk4 with the main difference being that axis limit trips are going to be soft stop limit events and not part of the hard estop circuit. I think this last part on limit trips is Dean’s approach and having tried it out on one axis I agree with him.

NFryer
12-11-2018, 09:36 PM
I think that I've got the control cabinet wiring sorted out. I'm using a Schmersal safety relay which can be triggered by the main E-Stop button, the stepper driver fault output, the inverter fault output and the E-Stop button on the MPG hand controller that I've got. Once triggered the signal is sent to the CSMIO controller, the stepper drivers are disabled and the inverter stops the spindle using the E-Stop ramp. A off time delay relay is used to allow the inverter to stop the spindle and then enable the STO function which disables the output of the inverter. To reset the stepper drivers I've included a switch in the PSU contactor coil circuit. A switch is used to also enable the inverter STO function when changing spindle bits to make sure there is no chance of the spindle starting. I intend to mount the control cabinet on the machine frame using some Paulstra anti vibration mounts. Also on the machine I will include a small control panel, with start, stop, pause, home and auto tool measurement buttons, along with green, red and yellow LED's for the start,stop and pause buttons.

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