denford triac rigid tapping

[battwell]

i just got a denford for myself
its fitted with control techniques lynx08 drive- not sprint.
havnt checked fully but according to the manual its isolated on all inputs . (havnt confirmed with meter yet)
problem is its unidirectional.
was thinking it should be ok to tap down, un enable , reverse polarity with contactor and re enable to reverse,
it looks like the tacho feed is fed into a bridge- so was hoping it would be ok running reverse. - anyone know?

anyway- thats preliminary thought. any wise men on here tried it?
or would it be better to swap out the dc motor for ac and run it with vfd?

annoyingly i dont have 3 phase- so il be swapping out the old fanuc drives/motors anyway

[m_c]

Are you sure your spindle only goes one way?
I'm pretty sure mine had a reversing relay, but I've not got the wiring diagrams handy to check.

For rigid tapping, you need reasonably accurate spindle control, along with accurate positional feedback, which the original DC motor definitely doesn't, and I'd suspect a VFD may struggle to respond fast enough, plus you'd struggle to fit a normal AC motor.
I fitted a 110 frame 1.25kw servo motor to mine, which involved making up a quite substantial adapter (I do have a thread on here with details/photos), as space is very limited.

I've still not got as far as trying rigid tapping, but that is one of the reasons I fitted the servo, instead of repairing/replacing the original motor and drive.

[battwell]

theres no reversing contactor in mine. just forward run
the spindle doesnt have to run accurately- just at rough speed required as the z axis will be geared to its encoder (which il have to add) - so will only start back out movement when the spindle is in reverse in a tapping cycle .
i havnt had time to test the lynx drive fully yet- but its ready light is on !
it does look a tight for space fit- was thinking mounting the motor high with a long shaft where the original motor is now if i have to use an ac servo instead.
time for some testing.

[m_c]

You need accurate enough spindle control so that you can stop it within a reasonable tolerance, unless you plan on having a very wide tolerance on tapping depth.

To give you an idea of the space problem, this is a 110mm square plate which the servo motor bolts to on top of the spacer -
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/33484179771_3926b56e3d_c.jpg

The spacer is high enough to get reasonable bearing spread between the two support bearings for the extension shaft, and a flexible coupler.
I have a model of the Triac head casting in Fusion360 if you want to see what will work.
IIRC you could probably get a 130 frame motor on, if you wanted a bit more power.

[m_c]

This post onwards covers the servo and the mount - http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10344-Yet-another-Denford-for-the-collection-%28Triac-Retrofit-thread%29?p=89732#post89732

[andy_con]

Got some tapmatic tapping heads for my triac, work a treat

[battwell]

as uccnc fully supports rigid tapping- and others are using it daily id like to add it to the triac.
if i run into problems- il go with tapping head .
to be fair with the amount of real paying work i have its going to be a while before the new "hobby machine" gets done.

[andy_con]

Is it really worth the cost and effort, use threadmills

[battwell]

Does anyone have a spare encoder cable or just encoder plug for fanuc red cap
Only required for test rig to set up my new drives.
Terminal layout is different to most motors- pain!24244

[battwell]

Got the red caps running perfectly on step/ direction
:-)

[battwell]

https://youtu.be/_N2Pkc51-t8

[battwell]

It will rigid tap :-)
https://youtu.be/eD8rGgB8xN4

[Chaz]

It will rigid tap :-)
https://youtu.be/eD8rGgB8xN4

Nice, saw the post on FB.

[battwell]

Can anyone that’s using bt35 tooling please measure a pull stud for me
Especially distance from top to clamping face.
Seems I have some that pull tight and some tools have slight play!

[jamesgates1000]

I had a similar problem with my Triac, tried new pull studs but still had issues with of them. I removed the cylinder from the top of the drawbar and adjusted the screw in the end of the spindle assembly, and it has been fine since.

[battwell]

Re pull studs
Are yours flat as in 90 degrees under the top button head that gets gripped
Or angled down at 45 degrees?
I tried an angled stud I had here and that pulled tight.
The studs that were on the tooling that came with the machine were way too long.
I had some here around the right length, which seem fine on some tool holders but not others. ( getting around half mill of play. Which makes me think that can't be right. For the cone to actually pull tight into the spindle I'd expect it to be at least 1mm shorter.

[battwell]

I had a similar problem with my Triac, tried new pull studs but still had issues with of them. I removed the cylinder from the top of the drawbar and adjusted the screw in the end of the spindle assembly, and it has been fine since.

I just tapped around the big nut . Pulls tight now :-)
Thanks James

[battwell]

Rigid tapping aluminium
https://youtu.be/zzIjGzhZmMs first test- very slow- proved good sync spindle to motion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2q2Ou12vs8 250 rpm. and 6mm pecks.
im not a metal man- so have no idea what speeds should be

[battwell]

Form tapping
Never tried one of these before- notice no swaff as it's not cutting
https://youtu.be/c0xuEY7EHbQ

[battwell]

Tapping at 600 rpm
https://youtu.be/W6WEeV5rPSw

[battwell]

Ok. I think this is max speed for a rigid tap at 6mm diameter
1200 rpm
https://youtu.be/mhANVN6tvCI

[battwell]

Added one of my probes tonight :-)
Triac is coming on nicely now :-)
Even made the tapped probe plate on it ( small steps but huge to me)
https://youtu.be/gcapYA04i14

[PaulMucCNC]

Are you sure your spindle only goes one way?
I'm pretty sure mine had a reversing relay, but I've not got the wiring diagrams handy to check.

For rigid tapping, you need reasonably accurate spindle control, along with accurate positional feedback, which the original DC motor definitely doesn't, and I'd suspect a VFD may struggle to respond fast enough, plus you'd struggle to fit a normal AC motor.
I fitted a 110 frame 1.25kw servo motor to mine, which involved making up a quite substantial adapter (I do have a thread on here with details/photos), as space is very limited.

I've still not got as far as trying rigid tapping, but that is one of the reasons I fitted the servo, instead of repairing/replacing the original motor and drive.

I have a 1990 Triac, i want to change the spindle motor aswell. Did you change the complet fanuc mainboard, or just huck the new servo in the fanuc system? It would be great if you show me how you did it.

I hope on your reply

best regards

Paul

[battwell]

most of us have put newer easier to manipulate controls in. hacking fanuc stuff is hard work!
mine is running uccnc on uc300eth motion controller.
if you can find an 80 frame size servo for spindle it will bolt straight on with a adapter plate.

[PaulMucCNC]

Okay thanks. Did you keep the other motors? I have fanuc servomotors they work pretty well is it possible to keep them or is it better to throw all out and put a new controllboard and servomotors and drives inside?

Thanks a lot for your support.

[m_c]

I retrofitted mine with a Dynomotion KFlop.

Details of the new spindle motor are buried somewhere in this thread - www.mycncuk.com/threads/10344-Yet-another-Denford-for-the-collection-%28Triac-Retrofit-thread%29

[battwell]

Okay thanks. Did you keep the other motors? I have fanuc servomotors they work pretty well is it possible to keep them or is it better to throw all out and put a new controllboard and servomotors and drives inside?

Thanks a lot for your support.

i re used the fanuc red cap motors but used new programmable drives to achieve this. works very well.
the drives are not easy to set up. but ok if you know exactly what your doing.
if not probably easier to buy matched motors and drives and swap them over.