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pnub93
07-02-2018, 09:51 PM
Hi guys

I want to buy my first mill this year
Lets say something like HAAS mini mill 2
3 axis with travel 508x406x356 + aditional 4&5 axis 200mm rotary table.
price 55k without VAT

I don't have much experience with small machinery so i want to ask if you know any manufacturers which are producing and selling similar size machines for similar cost.

Thanks for any advice.

Chaz
08-02-2018, 10:27 AM
I expect you will be offered some of the smaller / cheaper machines like a Tormach or similar. The Haas stuff is meant to be 'OK'. I think you next price point going north of that will be a fair bit more.

What are you trying to machine? What materials, what spindle speed etc?

pnub93
08-02-2018, 10:47 AM
Hi.

I have to stick with budget +-15%. But tormach looks like to me like completly cheap out on machinery.
But i don't have any experience with it so i will do some research.

I want to mainly machine mild steel, lower grades of alloys for automotive and rarely stainless.

mini mill from xyz with similar specs is twice more. so far it looks like you can get most bang for your money from HAAS

thanks

Chaz
08-02-2018, 12:21 PM
Hi.

I have to stick with budget +-15%. But tormach looks like to me like completly cheap out on machinery.
But i don't have any experience with it so i will do some research.

I want to mainly machine mild steel, lower grades of alloys for automotive and rarely stainless.

mini mill from xyz with similar specs is twice more. so far it looks like you can get most bang for your money from HAAS

thanks

I think for the money you are talking, Haas is probably a reasonable approach.

I assume you only want to buy new?

pnub93
08-02-2018, 12:31 PM
Yes i want to buy only new. I want to avoid problems which used machinery have.

Chaz
08-02-2018, 12:33 PM
Yes i want to buy only new. I want to avoid problems which used machinery have.

Which is fair enough but does limit you to Haas.

I was speaking to Haas a few months ago looking at pricing and options, can send you the contact details if it helps (unless you already have someone you are actively speaking to)?

magicniner
08-02-2018, 12:43 PM
Skyfire?

pnub93
08-02-2018, 12:47 PM
Chaz no thank you i am still prepairing workshop and i will not buy it in uk actualy. I am just asking if anyone know about alternatives and different suppliers.

magicniner
08-02-2018, 01:09 PM
https://emvioeng.com/shop/machine-tools/cnc-machines/cnc-milling-machines/svm-2vmc-mini-industrial-skyfire-cnc-vertical-milling-centre/

- Nick

pnub93
08-02-2018, 01:14 PM
magicniner
Thanks for tip but skyfire offers only 4inch 5th axis table that is little bit too small

Chaz
08-02-2018, 01:45 PM
As much as I respect what our local Skyfire agent is doing, I dont see this as massively different from the Tormach offering (if you ignore local support / distribution).

Looks like a more solid and well rounded machine will be in order (and something that doesnt run Mach 3 / 4).

Wal
08-02-2018, 06:28 PM
This company has always intrigued me:

http://ajax-mach.co.uk/cnc_milling_index.htm

There's a distributor literally 300 metres down the road from me - unfortunately I don't think they're open to Joe Public dropping in for a mooch... They do have the odd open day:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz45GX7GmJo

Here's another vid that gives you a closer look at one of their centres:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOj8UkQcIxo

Wal.

JAZZCNC
08-02-2018, 09:23 PM
As much as I respect what our local Skyfire agent is doing, I dont see this as massively different from the Tormach offering (if you ignore local support / distribution).

Looks like a more solid and well rounded machine will be in order (and something that doesn't run Mach 3 / 4).

Agree 100% and the price is ridiculous for what you get.!!.. Come on ATC that doesn't keep track of tools or know where it's at..That's poor considering price.

komatias
09-02-2018, 12:10 PM
Agree 100% and the price is ridiculous for what you get.!!.. Come on ATC that doesn't keep track of tools or know where it's at..That's poor considering price.

Not massively different, except for the fact that it runs servos, can do rigid tapping, has Hiwin rails all round and would run on a stand alone controller. Of course the option of proper tooling on a BT30 taper is not something to sniff at right?

As for ridiculous for price? It is about the same as importing a fully featured Tormach

I agree that the ATC would need a few more sensors.

The Skyfire SVM-2VMC however would be a bit too small for what the OP is looking for.

JAZZCNC
09-02-2018, 03:11 PM
Not massively different, except for the fact that it runs servos, can do rigid tapping, has Hiwin rails all round and would run on a stand alone controller. Of course the option of proper tooling on a BT30 taper is not something to sniff at right?

As for ridiculous for price? It is about the same as importing a fully featured Tormach

Tormach is ridiculous prices as well so yes agree. However, it doesn't look to be heavily built as Tormach PNC1100 and less travels.

Personally think I'd prefer LCNC and Mesa cards to a cheap standalone controller with limited features, far more flexible and larger screen etc plus easier to replace when faulty. If it was Siemens or Heidenhain controller then yes would be good.

Regards Servo's and spindle etc then it's no big deal really. Servo's are coming down in price all the time. Plus are servo's really needed for mill this lightly built.? Good stepper system coupled to decent ballscrews will more than match the accuracy/tolerences of machine this lightly built could hold.

Same with Spindles, even ATC spindles with direct drive motors BT30 and 18000rpm 5.5Kw or more are not ridiculous money.
I also noticed while watching a video of tool change just how poorly set the spindle servo was. The settle time for spindle orientation was massive.
Then when considering the machine is too weak for any serious metal removal and really it's limited mostly to aluminum. Also got to consider with only 8000rpm this is still too slow for decent aluminum work, so really it is poorly spec'd machine in reality

So sorry but this is my view off this machine which to me is overpriced and under built. 16,500 (and that's starting at.) is lot of money and your still got machine which is lacking in most areas. Can't do steel very well, can't do Aluminium very well.

To me it only just makes High spec Hobby or at best very light duty industrial. With 16.5K anyone could convert manual mill into machine that would pummel this into the ground. Ek give 16.5k and I'd build from scratch something that would knock spots of it.

Snapper
09-02-2018, 11:34 PM
What could you build for 16.5k? In a similar footprint.

JAZZCNC
10-02-2018, 01:19 PM
What could you build for 16.5k? In a similar footprint.

I'm mindful here of straying off topic or high jacking this thread so I'll keep short as pos.!!

What do you think that machine is under all that tin plate that takes up 1500x1000mm of space.?

Its bloody medium sized benchtop mounted Mill but nowhere near as complicated in construction because basically it's 2 cast iron pieces with machined surfaces for linear rails and bolted together.(Was tempted to say ground surfaces but doubt they are.?)

You don't have to try hard to beat that with Budget of 16.5k and footprint that size. To say what I would or could build would take too long and is irrelevant really to this thread. But if you or anyone else are serious contact me and I'll discuss.