8x4 Build based on plans by Joescnc Hybrid R&P

[GrahamWhite]

Hi all :)
My name is Graham and I'm new to all things cnc,got a 3d printer I built from a kit though so cnc on a very small scale then!
I'm starting a build based on plans I bought from Joescnc website- now I know not everyone will like or agree with the build materials and I definitely would like to spend a lot more on the build .... the wife says no!
So in the whole it will come from the plans but I'm hoping maybe there will be some input along the way as well.
As I said it's based on plans that once bought gives access to the builders forum and has approx. 250 machines built or being constructed all based off of the plans- giving dxf files/templates for cutting various parts etc.
The plans suggest a welded steel box frame base ,but as I don't weld I opted for a timber base.
Constructed out of structural 18mm ply ready to take the aluminium rails when they arrive.
so a few pictures of things so far then...
2392823929239302393123932
As you can see I doubled up on the ply thickness and the box section rails really improved the stability and strength.
23933
The rails fit together like mortice and tenon joints, the long sides are glued to the legs.
23934
The side rails are 10ft long so I extended them on opposite sides at the ends.
The width is 5ft.
23935
I again doubled the ply for the cross rails and screwed them in dry so take down is possible for relocation if needed.
so this is where I am at now-
239362393723938
The front rails are bolted with nylock nuts.
I also scooped the front rails to allow an 8x4 board to go between the legs for storage, still need to add some rails yet.
With a few sheets stored under there is should add some considerable weight.
The legs have screw adjusters on them for levelling.
So that's where I'm at now, I have some aluminium profile on order which I'm hoping will be with me soon.

[JAZZCNC]

I posted on another thread but I'll comment here as well.

Somewhere else I see you mention £3k. With that much you can get long way to building proper machine made from steel.
Yes, it would be basic to start off with because of low budget but you would have a good foundation that truly can be upgraded as you go along without wasting money.
For a fully finished machine with decent quality components and few bells whistle you'll need about £4-5K but this will give you a machine that will last for years even in small production enviroment but more importantly be reliable and repeatable/accurate.

You will regret building this machine at some point that's for sure.

[GrahamWhite]

So after much thought ,I have decided to go with the original plans- which are V bearings and Rack and pinion.
This is purely a cost thing for me - the entire build should come in at under £2k. I can understand peoples views on linear rails and ball screws but as pointed out by some ,it would take the build cost to nearer £4k which I am not prepared to spend.
Also the fact that this is an 8 x 4 machine for that price I can't see me having any 'Regrets' building it! like I have said before I would rather have a cheaper machine running than no machine at all.
If there is some upkeep to maintain performance then so be it.
Speaking to one of the guys who have built this he said he would build it again in a heartbeat.... but no need as its still running 7 years later ,now upgraded to aluminium carriages but still running V rails.
So bearings are ordered and aluminium profiles and angle iron are in this week :)

[GrahamWhite]

So after my rails apparently having had a tour around England before reaching my supplier, I finally managed to pick them up Wednesday ... a 9 3/4hr round trip:(
So busy day today fitting them:)
24008
24009
Bearings for V rails are on their way from USA so hopefully things will start moving soon!

[CNCKitMan]

Hello fellow adventurous newb,

I'm doing the same thing as you it seems (well it is a CNC forum).
I wish i had more input for you , to help you on your way.
I'm looking at purchasing Linear rails as i've used them before and the seem to give a better result (V Bearings on my Laser CNC work ok thou).

My input is i've searched and searched and think i've found a supplier of rails which don't cost the earth.
How much is the rack and pinion costing you??

[GrahamWhite]

Hi,
I just couldn't justify the cost for linear rails I'm afraid :(
I have been looking at a UK supplier that is selling the rack MOD 1.0 at £74.99 for a 2m length pre drilled.
I'm hoping that's a fair price as when I google rack and pinion I get car steering racks a lot!
For the pinion drive i'm looking at a 3:1 drive plate module that I will probably order from cncrouter parts in the USA. No one over here seems to make them :( I think they are about £60 each+ postage and import tax.- I need 3

[GrahamWhite]

So I'm looking at motor/driver choices and yes while i'm after advice can I ask that you switch off the 'best possible solution 'head and use the 'I expect that will be suitable' head!
This is a kit for nema 23 4Nm with 48 psu instead of the 36v they offer with other kits.
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/CNC-Kits/Professional-Stepper-Kits/Stepper-Motor-PRO-Digital-Kit-4Nm-x-4-Axis-Nema-23
I know I will need screened cables as well but is there anything glaringly obvious missing?
Sorry if it seems like i'm doing it all wrong but I'm loving my build so far as it's starting to take some shape :)

[driftspin]

So I'm looking at motor/driver choices and yes while i'm after advice can I ask that you switch off the 'best possible solution 'head and use the 'I expect that will be suitable' head!
This is a kit for nema 23 4Nm with 48 psu instead of the 36v they offer with other kits.
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/CNC-Kits/Professional-Stepper-Kits/Stepper-Motor-PRO-Digital-Kit-4Nm-x-4-Axis-Nema-23
I know I will need screened cables as well but is there anything glaringly obvious missing?
Sorry if it seems like i'm doing it all wrong but I'm loving my build so far as it's starting to take some shape :)Hi

Graham White

People here like to go for 68v diy psu and 80volt digital drivers.

And you can too, for about the same price.


Grtz Bert.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

[JAZZCNC]

Sorry if it seems like i'm doing it all wrong but I'm loving my build so far as it's starting to take some shape :)

Your loving it now but you won't be if you keep ignoring advise cutting corners trying to save a few extra pounds. It's very easy to spoil a machine when just few £100 more would make a great machine and unfortunatly you only realise this after the money is spent.!

I won't give Bum advise so I'm not giving you a "just good enough" solution but will give you solution that is what's required for good machine.

Because your using R&P which is only 50-60% efficient compared to ball screws which are 90-95% couple this with linear rail system that's is even less efficient then you'll need extra power to deal with lower efficiency. Also because you'll be using ratio 3:1 then you'll want motors which spin little faster but still have torque higher up the RPM range and 50V drives with 48Vdc won't provide enough power. (Also 48V is too close to the Drives 50Vdc max so you risk blowing drives up)

Ideally, with R&P setup, esp one that isn't very efficient then you'd run Nema 34 motors with Mains voltage or higher Dc voltages around 100Vdc.
So if you must use Nema 23 motors then you want to be running them around 70Vdc with 80Vdc drives.
Also you want Unregulated PSU not Regulated Switch mode supply. Reason for this is that under de-acceleration the motors become dynamo's and dump the power back to the drives which then dump this back to the PSU (Back EMF) and if the PSU as protections built into it then will shut down which is bad news.
On Small slower machine with light gantrys then can sometimes get away with this but on large machines with heavy gantry traveling at higher feeds whcih routers tend to do then it will become a problem.
The PSU you want is Unregulated toroidal PSU which use capacitors that store energy and absorb any Back EMF. These are actually very easy to make and will work out cheaper than buying a large PSU, it also means you can tailor Voltage and Amps to your exact needs.

So the setup I suggest with nema 23 motors is this.
4Nm motors
80Vdc Digital drives running motors at 68-70Vdc.
Toroidal PSU transformer spec'd to output 68-70Vdc

With Nema 34 Motors:
4.5Nm Nema34
80Vac (100Vdc) Drives
Toroidal PSU transformer spec'd to output required.

Stay away from kits they are always compromised in some way.

[GrahamWhite]

Appreciate the info:)
I can understand all you have said and will take it on board and not order the kit :)
so the steppers are fine ,will have to go with the 4Nm 23's as the mounting holes are already drilled.
An 80vdc board
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Microstepping-Driver/Digital-DSP-Stepper-Driver-7.2A,-80VDC-or-60VAC-CWD872
I have no clue on building a toroidal PSU!! lol so would need a touch of help there!

[Clive S]

I have no clue on building a toroidal PSU!! lol so would need a touch of help there!

Look at these two vids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OoQQg76ar4&list=PL1FIADAKba_tiLqXbUkzD30sZjtp_VyqY

Rapidonline https://www.rapidonline.com/ is a quick and simple place to buy the bits.

[JAZZCNC]

Appreciate the info:)
I can understand all you have said and will take it on board and not order the kit :)
so the steppers are fine ,will have to go with the 4Nm 23's as the mounting holes are already drilled.
An 80vdc board
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Microstepping-Driver/Digital-DSP-Stepper-Driver-7.2A,-80VDC-or-60VAC-CWD872
I have no clue on building a toroidal PSU!! lol so would need a touch of help there!

Yes, I had a feeling you were stuck with 23's hence why didn't push 34's which would be the better option.

Regards the Drives and PSU then those you linked can use AC so all you would need is Transformer the drives will do the AC/DC conversion so don't need Caps and Bridge rectifier. However I prefer to use DC supply as I feel it takes some of the stress off the drives and can have little bit more smoothing.
This will work for you either way. Just add Caps and Bridge rectifier if want to go with DC.

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortronix-vtx-146-625-125-625va-toroidal-transformer-230v-primary-2-x-25v-88-0012

[GrahamWhite]

So this is the progress so far
24075
The Y axis to X are not finished yet, still have more support for the gantry to be fitted.
The plans called for ACME lead screw on the Z but after hunting for the elusive 1/2"-8 2 start bar across the planet, I gave up and bought a ball screw 16mm 05 lead off of ebay with the mounts and coupler.
I'm hoping they are similar - the acme was a 1/4" lead per turn where as the ball screw is 5mm - not sure how that will affect the Z performance at all?
I will be running the 4Nm 23 motors at 68-70vdc as Jazzcnc suggested so there should be enough extra oomph I hope to compensate for the Z?
Now onto a redesign of my Z to allow for the ball screw mounts

[Clive S]

I'm hoping they are similar - the acme was a 1/4" lead per turn where as the ball screw is 5mm - not sure how that will affect the Z performance at all?
The ball screw is far superior than the acme. With the ball screw I would go with nema 23 3.1Nm

[JAZZCNC]

The difference in screw pitch will mean very little performance difference. The difference in efficiency, however, will be a lot better.

Now your not going to like this next bit but it's in your interest it's said.!
The Z axis is THE most important part of the machine so whether Acme or Ballscrew won't make a jot of difference because of the weak nature of this Z-axis design. Those V bearings are simply not good enough for Z axis and this design will be massive weak link. It would be wise choice if you changed the design and invested in some profiled linear bearings.

[GrahamWhite]

Yes I have to agree with you:( lol
although it's not so much of a problem now that I have to modify it for the ballscrew anyway.
I'll probably do a quick fix for the vee bearings to make sure on clearances and then the first decent mod. i'll redo the Z.
Would supported round rail be an option over the vee bearings?
-------------
I've gone for SBR16 rail- looking at a few z axis they seem to be built with the idea I have in mind
Also got the 84mm long bearings so plenty of stability I hope
All mounted on 19mmx 90mm 6062 ali plate with 6" piece crossways for the spindle mount
This option works with the X axis as I have bearings studs through the front face so hopefully I can make it work

[JAZZCNC]

Would supported round rail be an option over the vee bearings?
-------------
I've gone for SBR16 rail- looking at a few z axis they seem to be built with the idea I have in mind
Also got the 84mm long bearings so plenty of stability I hope


Yep that will be lot better than V bearings. Just make it strong.

[GrahamWhite]

So I've ordered my spindle -was going to go for air cooled as I didn't want the hassle of water pipes and pump but the breakout board I will be using has a dedicated pump relay built in so no real issues there!
Also they seem very quite and the price was right as well- seems to be a shop that just sells loads of items in bulk so undercuts everyone else selling the same stuff.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272749081454?ViewItem=&item=272749081454
That's the spindle,vfd,pump,water pipe,spindle mount and 1-13mm collet set! £238 delivered from Germany so no import fees unlike my pinion drive plates-just cost me £65 import fees this morning!

[JAZZCNC]

Suggest you don't use the Relay on BOB and save for something else. Instead, use the Relay built into the VFD.
Reason to not use it is to keep potential Noise away from the BOB where it's more vulnerable to interference.

[GrahamWhite]

I spoke to cnc4you today and they suggested for rack and pinion instead of running nema23's 4Nm with 3:1 reduction I could have just gone with 34's at 8.7Nm and run them direct or fit a larger pinion for slower speed??? would that be the same?

[JAZZCNC]

I spoke to cnc4you today and they suggested for rack and pinion instead of running nema23's 4Nm with 3:1 reduction I could have just gone with 34's at 8.7Nm and run them direct or fit a larger pinion for slower speed??? would that be the same?

Bad advise for several reasons and just shows how little experience CNC4YOU have.!
#1 The resonance directly on the motors will play havoc with the drives causing rough running. It will also Kill the motor bearings quick time.
#2 Bigger pinion will make go faster not slower.
#3 Bigger pinion will reduce resolution.

The reason for the ratio is two-fold.
#1 To increase resolution. Even a small pinion of say 15T (Mod1) will have a pitch of 47mm which is too high and will give a low resolution. It will go like the clappers but resolution or in simpler terms Smoothness will be rubbish and this shows in the cut. You want to aim for pitch between 10mm-20mm Max.
The CnC-router parts pinion I believe is 1" or if Mod 1 will be 25T which will give pitch of roughly 78.5mm with 3:1 ratio this brings down to 26mm which is still little high for me if want to do very detailed work.

#2 It increases the motor torque which is required to overcome the inefficiency of R&P.

Also, the belts help lower Resonance which affects motor/drive performance. DONT under estimate Resonance because it will and DOES cripple machines performance. This is why you'll often see recommend Digital drives because they handle Res so much better, but still they have limits and Direct driving R&P off the motor would challenge them and your abilty to tune the resonance out.

Edit: Just to go little further on why direct drive is bad idea and pinion sizes etc.
When using a machine it's important that you spec your components so that you have best performance while cutting. One important consideration with stepper based machine is that you aim to be cutting in the motors RPM range which gives best performace while cutting.

So if you have direct drive with big pinion and say your feed is low becasue say doing 3D work, then your problems start to multiply because now your motors are hardly turning. This scenario puts the motors/drives in place which isn't always good.!
Yes torque will be higher but do really need it while going slow.? However motor smoothness will suffer and this will often show in the finished cut which very much matters on say 3D work. OR affect the drives thru resonance causing rough running and others problems.

Hope this helps.

[GrahamWhite]

Ok Thanks ,so I have gone the sort of correct ish route!

[GrahamWhite]

I'm finally looking at the motors and drivers and found this place -omc-stepperonline.com
in particular this driver
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-24-72a-18-80vac-or-36-110vdc-for-nema-34-motor-dm860t.html
is that pretty much the same as the cnc4you one?
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-Plus/Microstepping-Driver/Digital-DSP-Stepper-Driver-7.2A,-80VDC-or-60VAC-CWD872
The stepperonline place don't do the 4Nm stepper though but they do have a 3Nm that pulls 4.2a as well as a 3Nm pulling 3.2a
They have nema 24 @4Nm would they fit my pinion plates ?
---
read more so the 24's will fit ,they have the same mount hole spacing within .1mm
Agghhh - I know I need a Bob as well-one full of connectors or just a basic one, I have ordered a UC300eth for connecting to my pc so need 5v to power that- it that then an extra psu I need or can I pickup 5v from somewhere!

[JAZZCNC]

I'm finally looking at the motors and drivers and found this place -omc-stepperonline.com
in particular this driver
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-24-72a-18-80vac-or-36-110vdc-for-nema-34-motor-dm860t.html
is that pretty much the same as the cnc4you one?

Yep pretty much and will work fine for your needs.



The stepperonline place don't do the 4Nm stepper though but they do have a 3Nm that pulls 4.2a as well as a 3Nm pulling 3.2a
They have nema 24 @4Nm would they fit my pinion plates ?

read more so the 24's will fit ,they have the same mount hole spacing within .1mm

When comes to motors whats more important is the inductance which is rated in mH. Lower the better and when wired Bi-polar parallel you want to be looking for around 2.5-3.5mH for best performance.

Be careful when comes to Nema sizes because some companys state Nema 23 which should = 56mm but the frame size is actually Nema 24 which =60mm. Prime example is that exact Cnc4you motor you linked to. The data sheet gives Dims of 60mm but they sell it as Nema 23.!!




Agghhh - I know I need a Bob as well-one full of connectors or just a basic one, I have ordered a UC300eth for connecting to my pc so need 5v to power that- it that then an extra psu I need or can I pickup 5v from somewhere!

Don't try to pick up 5V from else where like PC or USB. You need a stable 5V supply and ideally to lower risk of noise affecting controller you want it separate to any other devices.

Ideally you want to be getting away from 5V for things like E-stop, Limits etc because it's very susceptible to electrical noise which gives all sorts of weird and wonderful hair pulling mysterys.

Re- Bob's then you won't want to go the route I'd recommend because of price. Which would be UB1.
So in which case I'd say go with cheap Bob and just make sure it uses isolated Inputs. Most Simple Bob's don't have isolation so stay clear of those.

Highly recommend you draw up schematic and use 24Vdc safety circuit using relays. This will allow you to use 24Vdc to run thru E-stop and limit wires on the machine lowering any chance of false e-stops etc thru noise. The 5V signals you need for the Controller/BOB can then be kept to short wire runs and inside the control box which lowers chance of noise affecting machine.

Machine just relying on 5V for everything is very open to electrical Noise. Crazy things can occur.? ie: Mr's turns on hairdrier machine E-stops, Boiler fires up machine E-stops, Kettle on, Door bell etc etc.!!. . . think you get the picture. Anyone who's been affected by noise will tell you it's pain in the arse and only beat by resonance to which pulls the most hair.!

[GrahamWhite]

Wow, thanks :)... Can I ask just one more question? The nema 24s should be fine, although 60mm size the hole mounting is the same but they have 8 wires! Is that 4 more than usual! Or is 8 OK (they only have 8 wired ones in UK warehouse)

[JAZZCNC]

Wow, thanks :)... Can I ask just one more question? The nema 24s should be fine, although 60mm size the hole mounting is the same but they have 8 wires! Is that 4 more than usual! Or is 8 OK (they only have 8 wired ones in UK warehouse)

Ok let me explain the difference between 4, 6 & 8 wire motors. Steppers can be wired in several configurations with each making a difference to how they operate. There are 2 commonly used methods #1,#2 and one not so common #3.
#1 Bi-polar parallel (8 wire)
#2 Bi-polar Series (4 wire)
#3 Uni-polar (6 wire)

8 Wire motor is known as Hybrid Motor and can be wired in any of the 3 configurations. Each Config will affect the current used and how the motor performs. (8 & 6 give roughly same performance but unipolar require drives that allow it, hence why not often used on modern machines)

So if using 8 wire motor this would be wired Bi-polar parallel and requires roughly 2x the amps of Bi-polar series to give rated torque. However In performance terms it holds the Torque much higher up the RPM range than does a Series wired motor for the same given voltage.
But like all good things this comes at a cost. You have less torque lower down the RPM range.

What this means to YOU and US is that for Router where your cutting at higher feed rates and higher up the RPM range then Bi-polar parallel is best way to go.

If you was building say a Milling machine then you'd wire in Bi-polar Series because require more Torque lower down the RPM range. Still uses 8 wires just wired differently. Also requires less current than parallel so lower amp drives can be used. However for the same voltage the RPM will be lower because inductance is higher due to how it's wired.! . . . Again back to can't have something for nothing.

Now 4 Wire motors are Fixed by the manufacturer and you buy them either Bi-polar Series or Parallel wound. Often they are Series wound.
The difference being that Series wound will require roughly twice the voltage to reach the same RPM as Parallel wound motor.

Won't get into 6 wire unipolar because it's a throwback to old tech and drives so not really relevant here.

So for best performance with a router, you want 8 wire motors and wire them Bi-polar parallel.

If you look at the Datasheet on the Cnc4you it will show you how the wires are connected for each method. All 8 wires are used but joined in different ways.

[GrahamWhite]

Many thanks again, most of the basics ordered now, steppers, drivers and 24v psu.
Will look a bit more into Bob's.... Yes ub1 does look the bees knees but will take more kidneys than I can afford to sell! Lol
I'll have a look at some others that have opto isolation:)

[GrahamWhite]

So with the ball screw it needs space for the mounts top and bottom- so doesn't work with the Vee bearing rails :(
I went for SBR16 - supported rail bearings- would have liked square profile but the cost was too much.
This is the state of the Z axis at the moment -getting there :) waiting on the long bearings for the rails- will be going for MDF front plate at the minute and changing to aluminium later I hope :)
The clearance on the X axis bolts is tight but clear is clear :)
24145

I will have to manually adjust the Vee bearings on the X but hopefully that's not too much of a pain(instead of cam adjusters).
I hope this is an upgrade to the Z and not a downgrade!!
The bottom of the X has approx. 7" clearance from the bed after I add a whole base board and then a spoil board on top- gives me a usable Z height of 7"!! providing it doesn't have too much play.
Steppers, drivers , psu's etc all ordered- gone with a UC300eth - 5lpt for the control box
Water cooled spindle has arrived ,wow its got some weight to it!

[GrahamWhite]

Ok so it's time to start looking at the control box- I have a large 700mmx500mmx 200 steel enclosure which I will have to wall mount as it wont fit under the router base!
How does someone with absolutely no knowledge of electrics design or layout the insides!??
I've had a search on the forum and to be honest it looks a tad daunting(this is the bit I wasn't looking forward to!)
A basic wiring diagram I can just about follow but throw in relays or anything else then I'm lost :(

[mekanik]

Hi Graham
Think there is a diagram in one of the build threads, Dean/Jazz posted it a while back. as he is watching you he will probably be able to help.
Regards
Mike

[JAZZCNC]

How does someone with absolutely no knowledge of electrics design or layout the insides!??


Ok simple rule of thumb with layout is to keep mains voltage items/cables far away from Signal wires much as possible. Obviously at some points they will have to meet but reducing how close the wires and components come together will lower chances of electrical noise interference.

Regards the wiring design then just keep it simple don't go too crazy with the safety side. Many folks go way OTT with safety buying expensive Safety Relays when all that is needed is simple Relay driven latching E-stop circuit.
Ideally, you want to use 24Vdc for the Safety circuit and limit switches,relays etc as this gives greater immunity from noise interference. Can use 12V but 24V is best, avoid using 5V if possible.

Also, for new builder it's a good idea to build control in stages rather than wiring every thing at once only to find out something wrong at switch on and then struggle to diagnose where gone wrong.

If you give detailed list of all the stuff you have I don't mind drawing you up diagram.

[GrahamWhite]

That would be great cheers :)
So far I have..
4 drivers https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-24-72a-18-80vac-or-36-110vdc-for-nema-34-motor-dm860t.html
Breakout board https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/stepper-motor-driver/5-axis-cnc-breakout-board-interface-mach3-cnc-router-kit-st-v2.html
UC300 eth - 5lpt http://cncdrive.com/UC300.html
24v PSU
5v PSU
toroidal psu with no bridge rectifier or caps as driver accept AC
stop/start button (1no 1nc) NVR
emergency stop button
2.2kw water cooled spindle with VFD
water pump for spindle
big enclosure

Still to buy - control cable?
limit/home switches- do you have them at each end or just for home position?

[JAZZCNC]

limit/home switches- do you have them at each end or just for home position?

My preference is to combine the Home-limit switches and have the switch travel with the axis sensing/hitting fixed targets at each end. This way fewer switches to go wrong and less wires running around machine.

Will you be using Micro switch type or proximity.? My pref is proximity NPN type.

[GrahamWhite]

just had a look and the proximity NPN type are cheap enough and I like the idea of less switches=less cost! lol

[JAZZCNC]

just had a look and the proximity NPN type are cheap enough and I like the idea of less switches=less cost! lol

Ok but due to BOB having a common Ground you'll have to go with PNP.

[GrahamWhite]

Ok thanks- I'll keep an eye out for that when I order!

[GrahamWhite]

So I've learned another lesson on ordering from the USA- again the metric /imperial beast raises it's head again in the form of spur gears on the reduction drives!
And with a local company wanting nearly £100 each to machine up the appropriate MOD 1.0 spur replacement, I'm having to go for an off the shelf spur, have it bored out and get a collar turned up to fit it instead!

[GrahamWhite]

So decided it was time to start laying out the control box :concern:
24201
I'm gathering you try to keep the mains power stuff away from signal stuff as best as possible.
Want to try and keep VFD in there as well as I seem to have enough space ....unless I'm missing some bits! nothing big I hope!
Been looking at control cable and wondered how expensive you need to go?
4 core 0.75mm screened Flexible cable £4.13 per meter https://www.rapidonline.com/lappkabel-0026221-lflex-fd-classic-810-cy-drag-chain-cable-4-x-0-75mm-63-4774
or cheaper 809 cy flex at £2.98 per meter https://www.rapidonline.com/lappkabel-1026761-lflex-chain-809-cy-grey-drag-chain-cable-4-x-0-75mm-63-4331
Do I run the home/limit switches(magnetic PNP) in 3 core- screened also?

[driftspin]

So decided it was time to start laying out the control box :concern:
24201
I'm gathering you try to keep the mains power stuff away from signal stuff as best as possible.
Want to try and keep VFD in there as well as I seem to have enough space ....unless I'm missing some bits! nothing big I hope!
Been looking at control cable and wondered how expensive you need to go?
4 core 0.75mm screened Flexible cable £4.13 per meter https://www.rapidonline.com/lappkabel-0026221-lflex-fd-classic-810-cy-drag-chain-cable-4-x-0-75mm-63-4774
or cheaper 809 cy flex at £2.98 per meter https://www.rapidonline.com/lappkabel-1026761-lflex-chain-809-cy-grey-drag-chain-cable-4-x-0-75mm-63-4331
Do I run the home/limit switches(magnetic PNP) in 3 core- screened also?Check out if reichelt will ship to UK.

For cy 4x1mm2 i ended up paying 1.20 €/mtr for 50 meters delivered at my house.

Grtz Bert

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[GrahamWhite]

At 1.20 euros a meter was that for chain flex? I've seen prices for cy shielded from £0.60p per m but it doesn't suggest constant bending i.e for chain drive
I found this company at £1.94 per m for chain flex https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/cf881.07.04/cables-for-power-chains-shielded/igus/
or is the chain flex over the top?? and standard CY shielded fine?

[driftspin]

At 1.20 euros a meter was that for chain flex? I've seen prices for cy shielded from £0.60p per m but it doesn't suggest constant bending i.e for chain drive
I found this company at £1.94 per m for chain flex https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/cf881.07.04/cables-for-power-chains-shielded/igus/
or is the chain flex over the top?? and standard CY shielded fine?

I bought this. 1 size fits all [emoji3][emoji3] 1mm2

https://m.reichelt.de/OeLFLEX-CLASSIC/CL10CY-4G1-0-50/3/index.html?ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=165383&GROUPID=7698&artnr=CL10CY+4G1%2C0-50&SEARCH=cy%2B4g1&trstct=pos_2

I believe it says class 5 flex 20x OD bending property.

Non moving bending property 6x OD


https://reichelt.de


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180511/5a57c9e40226c7a2caa304214ae2f784.jpg

[GrahamWhite]

So I finally got my Z axis done
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Will probably swap out the MDF that the spindle is mounted on for some Ali plate at some point.

Added end supports to the x axis mount points for added stability.
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[GrahamWhite]

So after a bit of a gap, the control panel has gone away for a first fix so to speak.
A friend of mine who deals with that sort of stuff has very kindly offered to sort it out :)as in return he needed someone with a 3d printer to print some adapters for his RC car wheels :)
Should come back with some neat spaghetti I hope!

[GrahamWhite]

So panel is back and thanks to Jazz for the wiring diagram, my mate sorted it out a treat- a million miles better than my effort would have achieved !!
Mounted on the wall and fitted the fans to the front panel.
I added a start/stop button by mistake -actually not needed- so i'll probably turn it into a window so I can see the VFD front.
I've been told I can wire up the other things but I'm not allowed to turn it on! lol or even plug it in!!
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[JAZZCNC]

Hi Graham your mates made a nice job of the wiring etc but you need to re-route and separate some of the wires otherwise your probably going to get false E-stops etc from back EMF.
If he's general sparky he'll not be used to dealing with machine controls where tieing or routing together signal wires with high voltage wires is a BIG No-no.

I've circled the picture where I see potential trouble areas because signal wires are tie wrapped to high voltage or too close to VFD which gives off high EMF.

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[GrahamWhite]

So a bit more work done on the electrics
Drag chains fitted
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Leaves a nice pile to sort out :)
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A quick route to the control box
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And then some cutting, soldering and attaching...
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Still have the drives unplugged as not had the nerve to plug it in yet, need a quick recheck first.
Whats the next step ? attach to computer and switch it on ? or are there some other steps first ?
Still got to re-route some wires in case it causes issues.

[GrahamWhite]

Right so it's ALIVE!!
Please excuse the mess! :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru4H7zRt0lM
Finally gave up and bought the UCCNC software, and got all the axis jogging with the Y and A slaved :)
So I thought I'd try and setup the home limits.
Lucked out on the Z nearly first go.
Trying to set the X up- turned on pin 13 - I jogged it to the stop bolt (proximity limits) and the light came on but about 4or 5 seconds later a plume of smoke came out of the back of the limit!!
Cut off and refitted a new one- thought it may just have been dodgy … same again!
That's why I think I lucked out on the Z -I hit home and when it reaches it the light flicked on and the it backed off and went off.
Any ideas guys
The limits are PNP NO upto 36v- im using 24v- running brown to 24v ,blue to 0v and black to sensor pin on BOB

[Ger21]

It looks like you have your breakout board plugged into port 1 of the UC300? It needs to be plugged into port 2 or 3 for everything to work.
Probably doesn't have anything to do with your smoke, though.

[GrahamWhite]

Thanks for spotting that :) but after nothing was working to start with, a quick read of the manual pointed me in the right direction :) shame it doesn't have any tips on not letting smoke out!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[GrahamWhite]

So my mate who wired up my panel popped round :)
Multi meter came out and a quick decision was the PNP proximity limits I had were wrong ,they did actually need to be NPN-tried 2 he bought with him and all good :) pass as to whats the difference! so theyre on order:)
Moved onto the spindle which I was having real problems with as well ,trying to get the speed control working was a challenge!
The ST-V2 bob is a strange beast it turns out! what with the limits being right but actually wrong the spindle wouldn't keep it's speed ,it just kept dropping off???
So after trying just about every combination of pins and reverse settings we got to minimum and max speed% in the UCCNC software.
It was 10% min 100 MAX.
Set it to 100% minimum and 10% max and all good!!!!!! can't figure it out but speed control is working well and powers on and off fine.
Any ideas as to why are very welcome :)
2 steps nearer to a first proper run woohoo!!!

[GrahamWhite]

So new limits fitted and working :)
had to go for a first cut of something ,so a simple letters with a vee bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRlZwimHxHw
Amazed , IT WORKS!!!
Did hit the panic button on the first plunge ,was a bit jumpy! lol so had to start over :oops:
Need to setup speeds now as I think it's running fairly slow- working out UCCNC is very new to me(but then all of this is!)
Radiator cooling to go on and to make some permanent adjustable limit stops.
I'm nearing the 'Completed machines' section!!!
Gotta run breakin wizard and then surface my spoil board.
One thing I did try was cutting a circle and it came out oval- maybe I haven't quite got the calibration on the X right?

[GrahamWhite]

So radiator cooling is on and working :) and limit stops printed and fitted.
Are there any setup routines to go through to determine max. running rates for rapids etc.??
It seems to jog fine but on a few test runs I've done, on small circle movements say approx. 20mm across it tends to judder slightly, any ideas as to why???
Maybe I have the steps setup wrong?

[Neale]

How are you generating your gcode for the test circles? A common problem is not using constant-velocity settings for curves. If your gcode is coming out with a series of straight line segment approximations to a curve, and Mach3 is set to follow these exactly, it stops the machine at each "corner" and then restarts in the new direction. Result is vibration/juddering. Set it to "constant velocity" and it will approximate the straight line segments by rounding the corners very slightly but it keeps the machine running steadily. Even better is to get your CAM programme to generate arcs rather than straight-line approximations and Mach3 can do a better job still.

[GrahamWhite]

Well I've not posted for a while and now i think i'm finally finished!
Got rid of the masking tape holding various wires and also 3d printed some mounts to hold the water pump:)
Wasn't impressed with my dust shoe so just bought one in the end and for £20 it catches all the dust so job done!
One other thing I've added is another breakout board as i ran out of inputs to add an auto Z touch off plate- so ticked that off as well- also means i can add another 5 axis if i should ever need to! lol (although a 4th axis seems fun!!)
Just an arm left to make to carry the dust hose
So here are a few pics of it now.
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just a few things I've made so far -still learning ...or playing:)

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thanks for everyones help up til now :)