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View Full Version : Bridgeport Series 1 Interact. Refit/update . Opinions please.



swarf-boy
10-11-2018, 02:03 PM
Hi folks,

So, I have acquired a series 1 Interact.
Heidenhain TNC 145
SEM MT 30R4-58 3.2NM 145V DC motors
Bosch Z15 -1-240V drives


I purchased the machine locally. Its an ex uni machine, barely used, mechanically excellent and fully working.

It's now in my workshop, which only has a STD single phase 220V supply.

I really dislike rotary converters and the like. I know I can run spindle motor via a VFD ( as I do on my manual series 1 and Colchester lathe).

Having had a good look inside the control unit, I am not convinced that the axis controls could easily run from single phase, due to the driver boards being fed via 2 phases of the 3 phase supply. which to me, means 380V AC ( even though board is marked as 240V).
FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS POINT.

I also dislike the ancient TNC145 control system. only 2.5D control, limited compared to modern machines, etc.



I have read a few threads on similar builds on various sites, but all seem a few years old at least.


I realise i am looking at, some flavor of new control software ( mach*, LinuxCNC or similar) a motion controller of some description and probably new drives and possibly new motors too.

I don't think I would take the backwards step of stepper motors.
SEM motors that are currently fitted are still like new and very quiet, so it would be nice to use these if poss. I may be persuaded to go AC servo system ( if the Chinese stuff actually works ok)


SO.... what are the up to date options? Pro's and cons would also be appreciated.

m_c
10-11-2018, 07:17 PM
Big thing will be if the motors have quadrature output encoders, or resolvers. If they have resolvers, then you're looking at a conversion to encoders, which can get pricey.

Voltage wise, there will be various transformers for providing the voltage to the drives. They likely take the 380V and step it down to 240V. The ideal thing would be to power it up using 3 phase, then measure the voltages. You have to be aware they may use what seem like non-standard voltages (i.e. 208V), which won't work directly with UK mains voltage. Also if you bypass the transformers, you'll likely loose isolation.

Keeping the original drives, you're looking at needing an analogue (aka +/-10V) capable controller. Cheaper options are CS-Labs CSMIO-IP/A, Dynomotion KFlop+Kanalog, or whatever the LinuxCNC option is.

Swapping motors/drives does open up more options.

hanermo2
10-11-2018, 08:10 PM
There is no "right" answer.

The cslabs and machx stuff, I use, for a highly advanced lathe, is fantastic and vastly better than anything else I have seen.
But some other higher end industrial boards also have many commercial users and excellent specs.

It is quite hard and quite difficult and quite laborious to make a "good" industrial level cnc install.
Be it refit or new build.
My 3 axis lathe is 120 IO +/- and needs another 40.
On only 3 ac servo axis, so far.

Missing are servo faults, secondary optical homing, servo position tracking.
Probing.
Typical safety stuff interlocks, and IO for needed ancillaries in oil, tools, air, positions for toolchangers, in-pos, off-pos, etc.

swarf-boy
16-11-2018, 09:57 AM
Thanks for the initial replies.

I have just ordered 3 AC sevo kits. (90ST-M04025 servo & drive kit)

220V A.C.
2500 rpm
4NM torque ( originals were 3.2)
Same shaft dia as originals
Motor body is a similar diameter and (shorter too), so they looked to be the ideal retro fit.

Its a bit late, but opinions invited on this purchase.

So next is controller.

My Interact has an auto oiler with what looks like a small stepper motor.
What is the best method of making this work ( any one done this, that can offer some detail)

Chaz
20-12-2018, 09:55 PM
Hi folks,

So, I have acquired a series 1 Interact.
Heidenhain TNC 145
SEM MT 30R4-58 3.2NM 145V DC motors
Bosch Z15 -1-240V drives


I purchased the machine locally. Its an ex uni machine, barely used, mechanically excellent and fully working.

It's now in my workshop, which only has a STD single phase 220V supply.

I really dislike rotary converters and the like. I know I can run spindle motor via a VFD ( as I do on my manual series 1 and Colchester lathe).

Having had a good look inside the control unit, I am not convinced that the axis controls could easily run from single phase, due to the driver boards being fed via 2 phases of the 3 phase supply. which to me, means 380V AC ( even though board is marked as 240V).
FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS POINT.

I also dislike the ancient TNC145 control system. only 2.5D control, limited compared to modern machines, etc.



I have read a few threads on similar builds on various sites, but all seem a few years old at least.


I realise i am looking at, some flavor of new control software ( mach*, LinuxCNC or similar) a motion controller of some description and probably new drives and possibly new motors too.

I don't think I would take the backwards step of stepper motors.
SEM motors that are currently fitted are still like new and very quiet, so it would be nice to use these if poss. I may be persuaded to go AC servo system ( if the Chinese stuff actually works ok)


SO.... what are the up to date options? Pro's and cons would also be appreciated.

Looks like we are in a very similar boat.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12450-Bridgeport-Series-1-MDI-Conversion

Mine is Series 1 MDI. Similar motors ....

Chaz
20-12-2018, 09:59 PM
Thanks for the initial replies.

I have just ordered 3 AC sevo kits. (90ST-M04025 servo & drive kit)

220V A.C.
2500 rpm
4NM torque ( originals were 3.2)
Same shaft dia as originals
Motor body is a similar diameter and (shorter too), so they looked to be the ideal retro fit.

Its a bit late, but opinions invited on this purchase.

So next is controller.

My Interact has an auto oiler with what looks like a small stepper motor.
What is the best method of making this work ( any one done this, that can offer some detail)

Same as these?

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=282806425206&category=124603&pm=1&ds=0&t=1545285755000&ver=0

Have you received them yet?

swarf-boy
20-12-2018, 11:58 PM
Almost. Except I got the 90ST-M04025 model, which is 4NM and 2500 rpm.

Chaz
21-12-2018, 11:10 AM
Almost. Except I got the 90ST-M04025 model, which is 4NM and 2500 rpm.

Ok, thanks. Received them yet? What do you think of them?

swarf-boy
21-12-2018, 09:31 PM
I think they make an excellent garage ornament :beguiled:, as that is pretty much all they are right now.

Motors them selves appear quite well constructed. Seals on every joint etc. Bearings all feel nice. Keyed shaft is well machined. Drives appear well constructed too.

My only real gripe, is the 25 pin D connector that is on CN3.
It will have 3 or 4 different cable going to it eventually (including a shielded catb7 I think, for the encoder feedback).

Let you know more when my 24V PSU arrives.

Chaz
21-12-2018, 10:24 PM
I think they make an excellent garage ornament :beguiled:, as that is pretty much all they are right now.

Motors them selves appear quite well constructed. Seals on every joint etc. Bearings all feel nice. Keyed shaft is well machined. Drives appear well constructed too.

My only real gripe, is the 25 pin D connector that is on CN3.
It will have 3 or 4 different cable going to it eventually (including a shielded catb7 I think, for the encoder feedback).

Let you know more when my 24V PSU arrives.

Great, thanks.

battwell
27-12-2018, 08:53 AM
What control are you going with?

Chaz
27-12-2018, 09:00 AM
What control are you going with?

Centroid Acorn.

Chaz
03-01-2019, 01:27 PM
Hi,

So Centroid ordered, looking at motor options. DMM do a Nema 42 replacement that has the correct shaft length and diameter which helps (roughly 50mm and 5/8th inch) - how are you dealing with pulleys and mounting options for your new motors?

The DMM stuff is pricy too, so looking at options.

Thanks

swarf-boy
03-01-2019, 11:07 PM
Had 2 different thoughts on pulleys. ( but that's all they are right now.)

A) Make a shaft extension piece and stick original gear on the
end. ( quick & simple, but depends on length)

B) Make a new gear with an extended boss.
( seems a more engineered solution, but more expensive
and a lot more time to machine from solid. Also I would
have to make a single tooth form tool. Fortunately I already
have a H/V rotary table with dividing plates)

Sickeningly, this would be a great job for the 4/5 axis machine that I hope to end up with:disturbed: ,but isn't that always the way!


Re mounting, my servo motors have a stupid raised boss on the front face. Going to turns this off in the lathe.

X & Y axis should be OK with a flat face.

Z AXIS mounting plate is part of main head casting and has a circular pocket machined in to accept the old SEM motor. ( no way I am stripping that lot off to mess with. Thinking of just making an exact size disk to drop into pocket to level out the surface. Then bolt motor straight on.
The bolt pattern on new motors is a little larger, so just thought of rotation the bodies 45, marking and drilling a new PCD to suit.

Chaz
04-01-2019, 03:40 PM
Had 2 different thoughts on pulleys. ( but that's all they are right now.)

A) Make a shaft extension piece and stick original gear on the
end. ( quick & simple, but depends on length)

B) Make a new gear with an extended boss.
( seems a more engineered solution, but more expensive
and a lot more time to machine from solid. Also I would
have to make a single tooth form tool. Fortunately I already
have a H/V rotary table with dividing plates)

Sickeningly, this would be a great job for the 4/5 axis machine that I hope to end up with:disturbed: ,but isn't that always the way!


Re mounting, my servo motors have a stupid raised boss on the front face. Going to turns this off in the lathe.

X & Y axis should be OK with a flat face.

Z AXIS mounting plate is part of main head casting and has a circular pocket machined in to accept the old SEM motor. ( no way I am stripping that lot off to mess with. Thinking of just making an exact size disk to drop into pocket to level out the surface. Then bolt motor straight on.
The bolt pattern on new motors is a little larger, so just thought of rotation the bodies 45, marking and drilling a new PCD to suit.

Thanks. I was thinking the same for Z (mine is off however) so if I Can get my spindle to fit in there, ill enlarge the holder. The problem with your approach might be the shaft length as the motor is moved away from the pulley location (might be OK, pending on what you do with the shafts).

swarf-boy
04-01-2019, 05:39 PM
25305
Old DC SEM motor Top 2500rpm & 3.4NM torque
and new AC Servo bellow it = 4.0NM torque.
Also note difference in shaft length.

25292
Z axis mounting bracket part of head casting

25302
compared to motor front plate (note raised centre boss).

25303
AC servo in place, showing boss interfering with fit.

25299
Z axis pulley, above spindle ( looks a pig to change out)

25300
original pulley as fitted to SEM motors.

25304
pulley disassembled.

25301
Spindle motor. although it shows Star / Delta link positions, there is no terminal block inside housing.

Chaz
04-01-2019, 07:10 PM
Thats the Z Pulley, not spindle pulley :-)

How are you going to make up for the shorter shaft? Our machines look identical, apart from your slightly more powerful motors.

My motor has wires that allow for different options, but this is with the outer metal shield removed, will take pics this weekend.

swarf-boy
04-01-2019, 11:13 PM
That's what I meant.
Its a real pain uploading photos on here, and I do it all on my phone. I had it all done, but clipped the back button and lost it all again (LoL), so did it again in a hurry.

Chaz
05-01-2019, 05:40 PM
25309

Pic with the motor's outer cover removed. You can see the wires coming out allow for change in connection.

Chaz
06-01-2019, 02:24 PM
I'm trying to decide what motor to go for.

80 Size - 19mm shaft but 35mm long.
90 Size - 16mm shaft, same length.

Both those have near identical specs.

110 Size is almost a direct replacement but the shaft is 19mm and longer which is I think is ideal. This is for a 1.5 KW setup, around $100 per setup more expensive (not much of a concern).

Which would you go for?