Bridgeport Series 1 Interact. Refit/update . Opinions please.

[swarf-boy]

Hi folks,

So, I have acquired a series 1 Interact.
Heidenhain TNC 145
SEM MT 30R4-58 3.2NM 145V DC motors
Bosch Z15 -1-240V drives


I purchased the machine locally. Its an ex uni machine, barely used, mechanically excellent and fully working.

It's now in my workshop, which only has a STD single phase 220V supply.

I really dislike rotary converters and the like. I know I can run spindle motor via a VFD ( as I do on my manual series 1 and Colchester lathe).

Having had a good look inside the control unit, I am not convinced that the axis controls could easily run from single phase, due to the driver boards being fed via 2 phases of the 3 phase supply. which to me, means 380V AC ( even though board is marked as 240V).
FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS POINT.

I also dislike the ancient TNC145 control system. only 2.5D control, limited compared to modern machines, etc.



I have read a few threads on similar builds on various sites, but all seem a few years old at least.


I realise i am looking at, some flavor of new control software ( mach*, LinuxCNC or similar) a motion controller of some description and probably new drives and possibly new motors too.

I don't think I would take the backwards step of stepper motors.
SEM motors that are currently fitted are still like new and very quiet, so it would be nice to use these if poss. I may be persuaded to go AC servo system ( if the Chinese stuff actually works ok)


SO.... what are the up to date options? Pro's and cons would also be appreciated.

[m_c]

Big thing will be if the motors have quadrature output encoders, or resolvers. If they have resolvers, then you're looking at a conversion to encoders, which can get pricey.

Voltage wise, there will be various transformers for providing the voltage to the drives. They likely take the 380V and step it down to 240V. The ideal thing would be to power it up using 3 phase, then measure the voltages. You have to be aware they may use what seem like non-standard voltages (i.e. 208V), which won't work directly with UK mains voltage. Also if you bypass the transformers, you'll likely loose isolation.

Keeping the original drives, you're looking at needing an analogue (aka +/-10V) capable controller. Cheaper options are CS-Labs CSMIO-IP/A, Dynomotion KFlop+Kanalog, or whatever the LinuxCNC option is.

Swapping motors/drives does open up more options.

[hanermo2]

There is no "right" answer.

The cslabs and machx stuff, I use, for a highly advanced lathe, is fantastic and vastly better than anything else I have seen.
But some other higher end industrial boards also have many commercial users and excellent specs.

It is quite hard and quite difficult and quite laborious to make a "good" industrial level cnc install.
Be it refit or new build.
My 3 axis lathe is 120 IO +/- and needs another 40.
On only 3 ac servo axis, so far.

Missing are servo faults, secondary optical homing, servo position tracking.
Probing.
Typical safety stuff interlocks, and IO for needed ancillaries in oil, tools, air, positions for toolchangers, in-pos, off-pos, etc.

[swarf-boy]

Thanks for the initial replies.

I have just ordered 3 AC sevo kits. (90ST-M04025 servo & drive kit)

220V A.C.
2500 rpm
4NM torque ( originals were 3.2)
Same shaft dia as originals
Motor body is a similar diameter and (shorter too), so they looked to be the ideal retro fit.

Its a bit late, but opinions invited on this purchase.

So next is controller.

My Interact has an auto oiler with what looks like a small stepper motor.
What is the best method of making this work ( any one done this, that can offer some detail)

[Chaz]

Hi folks,

So, I have acquired a series 1 Interact.
Heidenhain TNC 145
SEM MT 30R4-58 3.2NM 145V DC motors
Bosch Z15 -1-240V drives


I purchased the machine locally. Its an ex uni machine, barely used, mechanically excellent and fully working.

It's now in my workshop, which only has a STD single phase 220V supply.

I really dislike rotary converters and the like. I know I can run spindle motor via a VFD ( as I do on my manual series 1 and Colchester lathe).

Having had a good look inside the control unit, I am not convinced that the axis controls could easily run from single phase, due to the driver boards being fed via 2 phases of the 3 phase supply. which to me, means 380V AC ( even though board is marked as 240V).
FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS POINT.

I also dislike the ancient TNC145 control system. only 2.5D control, limited compared to modern machines, etc.



I have read a few threads on similar builds on various sites, but all seem a few years old at least.


I realise i am looking at, some flavor of new control software ( mach*, LinuxCNC or similar) a motion controller of some description and probably new drives and possibly new motors too.

I don't think I would take the backwards step of stepper motors.
SEM motors that are currently fitted are still like new and very quiet, so it would be nice to use these if poss. I may be persuaded to go AC servo system ( if the Chinese stuff actually works ok)


SO.... what are the up to date options? Pro's and cons would also be appreciated.

Looks like we are in a very similar boat.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12450-Bridgeport-Series-1-MDI-Conversion

Mine is Series 1 MDI. Similar motors ....

[Chaz]

Thanks for the initial replies.

I have just ordered 3 AC sevo kits. (90ST-M04025 servo & drive kit)

220V A.C.
2500 rpm
4NM torque ( originals were 3.2)
Same shaft dia as originals
Motor body is a similar diameter and (shorter too), so they looked to be the ideal retro fit.

Its a bit late, but opinions invited on this purchase.

So next is controller.

My Interact has an auto oiler with what looks like a small stepper motor.
What is the best method of making this work ( any one done this, that can offer some detail)

Same as these?

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=282806425206&category=124603&pm=1&ds=0&t=1545285755000&ver=0

Have you received them yet?

[swarf-boy]

Almost. Except I got the 90ST-M04025 model, which is 4NM and 2500 rpm.

[Chaz]

Almost. Except I got the 90ST-M04025 model, which is 4NM and 2500 rpm.

Ok, thanks. Received them yet? What do you think of them?

[swarf-boy]

I think they make an excellent garage ornament :beguiled:, as that is pretty much all they are right now.

Motors them selves appear quite well constructed. Seals on every joint etc. Bearings all feel nice. Keyed shaft is well machined. Drives appear well constructed too.

My only real gripe, is the 25 pin D connector that is on CN3.
It will have 3 or 4 different cable going to it eventually (including a shielded catb7 I think, for the encoder feedback).

Let you know more when my 24V PSU arrives.

[Chaz]

I think they make an excellent garage ornament :beguiled:, as that is pretty much all they are right now.

Motors them selves appear quite well constructed. Seals on every joint etc. Bearings all feel nice. Keyed shaft is well machined. Drives appear well constructed too.

My only real gripe, is the 25 pin D connector that is on CN3.
It will have 3 or 4 different cable going to it eventually (including a shielded catb7 I think, for the encoder feedback).

Let you know more when my 24V PSU arrives.

Great, thanks.

[battwell]

What control are you going with?

[Chaz]

What control are you going with?

Centroid Acorn.

[Chaz]

Hi,

So Centroid ordered, looking at motor options. DMM do a Nema 42 replacement that has the correct shaft length and diameter which helps (roughly 50mm and 5/8th inch) - how are you dealing with pulleys and mounting options for your new motors?

The DMM stuff is pricy too, so looking at options.

Thanks

[swarf-boy]

Had 2 different thoughts on pulleys. ( but that's all they are right now.)

A) Make a shaft extension piece and stick original gear on the
end. ( quick & simple, but depends on length)

B) Make a new gear with an extended boss.
( seems a more engineered solution, but more expensive
and a lot more time to machine from solid. Also I would
have to make a single tooth form tool. Fortunately I already
have a H/V rotary table with dividing plates)

Sickeningly, this would be a great job for the 4/5 axis machine that I hope to end up with:disturbed: ,but isn't that always the way!


Re mounting, my servo motors have a stupid raised boss on the front face. Going to turns this off in the lathe.

X & Y axis should be OK with a flat face.

Z AXIS mounting plate is part of main head casting and has a circular pocket machined in to accept the old SEM motor. ( no way I am stripping that lot off to mess with. Thinking of just making an exact size disk to drop into pocket to level out the surface. Then bolt motor straight on.
The bolt pattern on new motors is a little larger, so just thought of rotation the bodies 45°, marking and drilling a new PCD to suit.

[Chaz]

Had 2 different thoughts on pulleys. ( but that's all they are right now.)

A) Make a shaft extension piece and stick original gear on the
end. ( quick & simple, but depends on length)

B) Make a new gear with an extended boss.
( seems a more engineered solution, but more expensive
and a lot more time to machine from solid. Also I would
have to make a single tooth form tool. Fortunately I already
have a H/V rotary table with dividing plates)

Sickeningly, this would be a great job for the 4/5 axis machine that I hope to end up with:disturbed: ,but isn't that always the way!


Re mounting, my servo motors have a stupid raised boss on the front face. Going to turns this off in the lathe.

X & Y axis should be OK with a flat face.

Z AXIS mounting plate is part of main head casting and has a circular pocket machined in to accept the old SEM motor. ( no way I am stripping that lot off to mess with. Thinking of just making an exact size disk to drop into pocket to level out the surface. Then bolt motor straight on.
The bolt pattern on new motors is a little larger, so just thought of rotation the bodies 45°, marking and drilling a new PCD to suit.

Thanks. I was thinking the same for Z (mine is off however) so if I Can get my spindle to fit in there, ill enlarge the holder. The problem with your approach might be the shaft length as the motor is moved away from the pulley location (might be OK, pending on what you do with the shafts).

[swarf-boy]

25305
Old DC SEM motor Top 2500rpm & 3.4NM torque
and new AC Servo bellow it = 4.0NM torque.
Also note difference in shaft length.

25292
Z axis mounting bracket part of head casting

25302
compared to motor front plate (note raised centre boss).

25303
AC servo in place, showing boss interfering with fit.

25299
Z axis pulley, above spindle ( looks a pig to change out)

25300
original pulley as fitted to SEM motors.

25304
pulley disassembled.

25301
Spindle motor. although it shows Star / Delta link positions, there is no terminal block inside housing.

[Chaz]

Thats the Z Pulley, not spindle pulley :-)

How are you going to make up for the shorter shaft? Our machines look identical, apart from your slightly more powerful motors.

My motor has wires that allow for different options, but this is with the outer metal shield removed, will take pics this weekend.

[swarf-boy]

That's what I meant.
Its a real pain uploading photos on here, and I do it all on my phone. I had it all done, but clipped the back button and lost it all again (LoL), so did it again in a hurry.

[Chaz]

25309

Pic with the motor's outer cover removed. You can see the wires coming out allow for change in connection.

[Chaz]

I'm trying to decide what motor to go for.

80 Size - 19mm shaft but 35mm long.
90 Size - 16mm shaft, same length.

Both those have near identical specs.

110 Size is almost a direct replacement but the shaft is 19mm and longer which is I think is ideal. This is for a 1.5 KW setup, around $100 per setup more expensive (not much of a concern).

Which would you go for?

[adunne123]

Great, thanks.
Hi Planning to up grade my Bridge port soon
Planning on using this and my old motors
Upgrading encoders
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/allin1dc_cnc_controller.html
Any recommendations.
Thanks Anthony

[Muzzer]

My Shizuoka turret mill has its original SEM brushed motors and a Centroid Acorn controller. To control the motors I have 3 of the cncdrive drives https://www.cncdrive.com/DG4S_16035.html. Works really well, cost effective and didn't require any messing with the mechanics.

My Bridgeport conversion has DMM servos and TBH there's not much between them, although the DMMs cost a fair bit, not forgetting the motors themselves.

[adunne123]

Nice so you just replaced the Motor drives
Did you change the encoders ?
where do you get the DC power for the drives from

[swarf-boy]

Hi Anthony,

Ok, so which machine are you playing with?

Have you got 380V 3 phase available or just 220V single phase.

Yes changing motors can be a real pig, unless you can get them with a matching shaft ( or larger and turn down to fit orig timing pulleys). The timing pulleys on many of these machines are american inch sized. Expensive, compared to metric. Changing the screw pulley to metric is possible, but a LOT of work.

Keeping the SEM motors is fine if they are good. ( we have spares) changing tacho ( resolver etc) for an encoder is not hard. Cheap from Aliexpress too.
If you have the same bosch driver boards as mine, it looks like they could be used.
Yes getting 180V DC ( I think) from a 220V AC supply will not be cheap, unless you are very lucky.

This is what put me off using them and going onto 220V AC servos instead.

Re Acorn, try contacting Chaz who posted above. He was using one on his.
He is pretty stretched time wise right now, but its worth a try.
He will no doubt also mention the cheap, offline ( non PC required) controllers that are starting to get popular now.

I went the CS Labs route myself.
Keeping vary speed and running inverter for head motor. Keeping the pneumatics too.( for now)

No where near finished on mine though. So I don't have much more to share.

[Muzzer]

Sorry didn't see the reply, had a busy weekend.

I'm also using an Acorn on my Shiz. Very nice to use and great support on the forum which is well supported by Centroid and users. Not deadly cheap when you pay for the full licence and MPG but it's a good, semi professional system. https://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=60

The SEM machines on my machine had both encoders and tachos but you don't need tachos with modern drives. The original encoders connected up directly, as they had differential outputs. Check your motors to see what you have in there before buying anything extra. You might get lucky like me.

For the DC power I just got a 3000VA 120V site transformer from Screwfix (the ones in the steel box, not the potted yellow things) and removed some secondary turns to get 100VAC, then used a bridge rectifier and large electrolytic from CPC. Gives ~140Vdc and is simple, cheap and reliable. 160-180Vdc would be too high.

I have a Newker 990MDCa standalone 4 axis controller on my Bridgeport conversion. Works well but the manual was impossible to understand and I ended up writing my own. Depends how patient you are. Dean / Jazz is going with SZGH, who sound like a much better bet.

So my Shiz just required an Acorn and 3 of the cncdrive drivers, no mechanical buggerage needed. Pretty quick and simple although modern electronics is considerably more compact than the original stuff, so I made up a new cabinet while I was at it. The old one was big enough to climb inside. And I rebuilt the head, replaced the bearings etc, as you do.

[adunne123]

For the DC power I just got a 3000VA 120V site transformer from Screwfix (the ones in the steel box, not the potted yellow things) and removed some secondary turns to get 100VAC, then used a bridge rectifier and large electrolytic from CPC. Gives ~140Vdc and is simple, cheap and reliable. 160-180Vdc would be too high.
I have Generator I was hoping to use 240 v from the house will probably do similar.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-KVA-SITE-TRANSFORMER-SINGLE-PHASE/223844245238?hash=item341e281ef6:g:sMsAAOSw5fJeGET F
like this .
I hope to start soon, I have work shop Man cave just built now have to say impress with Centroid and will just use my motors,
Will update when i start

[AlexDoran]

Hi there,

Im planning on doing a similar build with a bridgeport i recently got (scrap value, mechanically barely used).

I had planned to go with more modern AC Servos, but not sure on the best option regarding shaft sizes. I'd be interested in hearing about this machine if you ever got it working.

Thanks

Alex

[mycncshop.com]

Friends, if you need a new servo,please let me knowI will apply for some extra offers for you
In this link, can see all machines with 80mm flange and 90mm flange
31954

https://www.mycncshop.com/80mm-90mm-NEMA32-NEMA34-Servo-Motor-AASD-15A-AASD-20A-driver-M01330-M02430-M03520-M04025-2.39N.m-2.4N.m-3.5N.m-4M.m

[AlexDoran]

Friends, if you need a new servo,please let me knowI will apply for some extra offers for you
In this link, can see all machines with 80mm flange and 90mm flange
31954

https://www.mycncshop.com/80mm-90mm-NEMA32-NEMA34-Servo-Motor-AASD-15A-AASD-20A-driver-M01330-M02430-M03520-M04025-2.39N.m-2.4N.m-3.5N.m-4M.m

Do you do anything with longer shaft? Ideally it would need to be 55 - 60mm long

[mycncshop.com]

Do you do anything with longer shaft? Ideally it would need to be 55 - 60mm long

If you need a longer shaft, we can provide customized services

But this will take approximately 7-10 business days

[Smokie555]

Hi, really glad to find this thread as I'm currently planning to swap out the motors on my non working Interact 1 series 2. I see the problem with the short shaft lenghts on these new Chinese servo motors. What route did you go? I was thinking of making shaft extensions something like this and re-using the 12t stock pulley but would the over hang be too much? Cheers Ross
32020

[Chaz]

Hi. for X and Y I used Panasonics with standard shaft but its not great. For the Z, I used the next motor up (1KW Panasonic, overkill) for the additional shaft length.

Suppose if you can get the shafts with a good tolerance and some grubs, it would be OK.

[Smokie555]

Panasonics, what are they? Are they extensions.

[Chaz]

No, Panasonic (the brand). For example - https://www3.panasonic.biz/ac/ae/motor/fa-motor/ac-servo/a5/index.jsp

[Smokie555]

Dooh! I get it now :)