CNC conversion AMAT25LV AMAT30LV WM18 advice needed for total novice

[Hulksmash]

Hi Guys, along with designing a cnc router I am also looking to buy a milling machine.

I will use it manually prior to a CNC conversion.

I have limited space in my garage so the max sizes are the WM18 /AMAT25 /AMAT30LV size.

I have heard many good things re the Amadeal mils and them being belt driven and having a larger cutting area.

I basically have a rough idea re drivers and board but I get confused re spindle speeds.

Do you buy a seperate spindle and fit that with a VFD or do you modify the existing one. ??

Also is there a way to determine the ball screw length easy enough, and are they end machined at all ?

Where does the community purchase from ? Any recommended sellers at all ?

As I am starting from scratch I will also need to buy cutters, clamping and a machine vice so I am trying to keep the cost of items to a minimum but not hinder quality.

The machine is for hobby use only to make prototype parts in steal and aluminium.

The mill will sit on a pre built workbench.

Unfortunately I dont have space for Bridgeport sized machines.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks again

Mike

[magicniner]

Mike,
In order to avoid unpleasant surprises you ideally need to choose a machine which someone else has converted and documented, this way you will know in advance what will fit where and what machining is required, it's worth spending a little more to avoid any pitfalls.

Spindle wise I suggest you get it running CNC first, chances are you can then make what you need to mount the spindle of your choice.

I'm in the process of converting a Chester Century VS, I bought it because the price was right but I was really lucky with it, there is no major machining of the existing parts required to accommodate 16mm ball screws on the same centre lines as the original lead screws, additionally the existing mounting points for end-float bearings will work for the ball screws.

Nick

[Hulksmash]

Hi,

I have been following people who converted a G0704 by grizzly which is similar to the AMAT25. Also a few people have converted the wm18 like Clive on the forums.

I just wondered which would be best. The amat25 has a higher rpm but will be adding spindle / upgrading at a later date

Regards

Mike

[Colin Barron]

It will be much easier to buy an older machine with ball screws fitted which has obsolete electronics and fit new electronics.

[Hulksmash]

It will be much easier to buy an older machine with ball screws fitted which has obsolete electronics and fit new electronics.

you have any idea of what models and would they be a similar size to the AMAT25 also ?

Has anyone come across this machine before or dealt with this company ?

toolco.co.uk vm32b-belt-drive (http://www.toolco.co.uk/products/vm32b-belt-drive-variable-speed-milling-machine-1)

thanks

Mike

[Colin Barron]

Have a look at the Denford forum of old machines or Boxford cnc machines. They both have small old machines which have ballscrews. Electronics conversions are relatively cheap.

[Clive S]

you have any idea of what models and would they be a similar size to the AMAT25 also ?

Has anyone come across this machine before or dealt with this company ?

toolco.co.uk vm32b-belt-drive (http://www.toolco.co.uk/products/vm32b-belt-drive-variable-speed-milling-machine-1)

thanks

Mike

Mike. The offer still stands if you want to pop over and see my machines and a chat. I will be selling at sometime a Novamill with ball screws and and electronics updated to Linuuxcnc with Mesa cards. But I suspect it will be too small for you.

[Hulksmash]

Mike. The offer still stands if you want to pop over and see my machines and a chat.

Many thanks, think I will need too.

Mike

[dazp1976]

Hi Guys, along with designing a cnc router I am also looking to buy a milling machine.

I will use it manually prior to a CNC conversion.

I have limited space in my garage so the max sizes are the WM18 /AMAT25 /AMAT30LV size.

I have heard many good things re the Amadeal mils and them being belt driven and having a larger cutting area.

I basically have a rough idea re drivers and board but I get confused re spindle speeds.

Do you buy a seperate spindle and fit that with a VFD or do you modify the existing one. ??

Also is there a way to determine the ball screw length easy enough, and are they end machined at all ?

Where does the community purchase from ? Any recommended sellers at all ?

As I am starting from scratch I will also need to buy cutters, clamping and a machine vice so I am trying to keep the cost of items to a minimum but not hinder quality.

The machine is for hobby use only to make prototype parts in steal and aluminium.

The mill will sit on a pre built workbench.

Unfortunately I dont have space for Bridgeport sized machines.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks again

Mike

The AMAT25LV is the machine I'd go for. (Mine is still sitting in it's crate)
Unless you need a longer Y, then I'd go for the 30.

The 25 is closer to the Precision Matthews PM25V in terms of build. There are some subtle differences from the G0704 looking at the pdf manuals.

I'll be taking about 3 months to finish mine I reckon!!!!.

[dazp1976]

Following on from my last comment.
Have been rebuilding the X2 which is why I hadn't got round to look at mine yet.

Now in truth I am a little stumped!?
Just got round to un-crating my AMAT25LV and noticed the spindle center is nowhere near the table center.
It's as though the head needs a spacer of at least 1 inch thickness fitted.

It has 185mm table movement on Y axis but with the column bellows fitted the distance between these and the spindle center is only 160mm.
Couldn't get full 185 cut with them fitted when there's work on the table, only the 160mm is acheivable.

With the bellows removed the spindle center measures 185mm distance from the dovetails, just.
Also the table doesn't go all the way back (you can see the brass nut hit first) and hangs right out all the way to the handle when coming forward.
With the table as far back as it goes there is still 40mm of the table left to go to the spindle center.
With the table full forward the spindle center hangs right off it into empty space.

Need to have a good look at this. Doesn't seem right at all.

Info on it shows it's a 1100w motor with speeds of 0-1500 & 0-3000rpm & feels pretty damn solid so isn't all bad.
I'll be pulling it apart soon so it looks like a case of using it without the column cover bellows for now.

I'll see if I can source some longer M10 T-bolts for the head unit and add a 1 inch spacer at a later date. Hopefully it will be that simple.


I bet these size machines are all about the same. I've seen a fair few spacers put behind the head on those G0704 ones.
May have been better off with the 30LV myself beings I need at least 180mm Y travel, hmmmm. The 2250 max rpm and the weight put me off that. Shame.

[Hulksmash]

Thanks for the update dazp1976. Keep us posted. Is it a fault with the AMAT25 or is that just how it is with the spindle?? Almost sounds like the lead screw nut controlling the table is off.

I have been looking at these machines too. They look very similar to Warco but are belt drive, larger motor etc.

http://www.toolco.co.uk/categories/milling-machines

Re spindle speed... I am unsure as yet if to buy a 3kw spindle eventually and add an adapter to the machine holding it or to upgrade the the main spindle to increase the speed.

[Doddy]

Following on from my last comment.
Have been rebuilding the X2 which is why I hadn't got round to look at mine yet.

Now in truth I am a little stumped!?
Just got round to un-crating my AMAT25LV and noticed the spindle center is nowhere near the table center.
It's as though the head needs a spacer of at least 1 inch thickness fitted.

It has 185mm table movement on Y axis but with the column bellows fitted the distance between these and the spindle center is only 160mm.
Couldn't get full 185 cut with them fitted when there's work on the table, only the 160mm is acheivable.


ARC advertise the SX2.7 as having 165/190mm travel depending upon having the bellows fit, or not. I think you're right - a number of these machines have similar issues

[dazp1976]

ARC advertise the SX2.7 as having 165/190mm travel depending upon having the bellows fit, or not. I think you're right - a number of these machines have similar issues

I'd have bought the 30LV if I'd known about this. At least I'd have got the 180mm travel I needed straight out of the box! (states 220mm max).
Once I start converting the 25 I'll set the table 20mm further back from where it is now and later on fit a 25mm head spacer.
That should be enough to achieve what I need.
Kind of annoyed.

I'm actually considering putting the motor and control box from the 25 onto the X2 while I'm messing with this. I get 160mm on the X2 with the changes I made.

[komatias]

you guys seen this: http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12274-Limited-number-of-Bench-Mills-available-for-December

[dazp1976]

you guys seen this: http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12274-Limited-number-of-Bench-Mills-available-for-December

I suspect it will be exactly the same as my 25LV (identical spec) with Y travel limitations when the chip guard bellows are in place. Saw a post on CNC zone mentioning this the other day regarding a similar machine.

My advice would be: If you want a machine about this size with 180mm Y travel then the AMAT30LV is in stock atm.
Might not be for long though.
I'm unfortunately committed to my 25 now :(

[Hulksmash]

I suspect it will be exactly the same as my 25LV (identical spec) with Y travel limitations when the chip guard bellows are in place. Saw a post on CNC zone mentioning this the other day regarding a similar machine.

My advice would be: If you want a machine about this size with 180mm Y travel then the AMAT30LV is in stock atm.
Might not be for long though.
I'm unfortunately committed to my 25 now :(

What about this machine ? These better than the warco wm18 or AMAT30 ?

http://www.toolco.co.uk/products/vm32b-belt-drive-variable-speed-milling-machine-1

[dazp1976]

What about this machine ? These better than the warco wm18 or AMAT30 ?

http://www.toolco.co.uk/products/vm32b-belt-drive-variable-speed-milling-machine-1

The Toolco32B will be pretty much the same as the AMAT30LV.
I prefer the R8 taper and Toolco only had the 32B in MT3 when I last checked.
The Warco is geared so that put me off it.

[Hulksmash]

Either the guy from toolco uk ltd is having the best holiday ever, or he has closed down or worse !!

I have been trying to contact them for past 2 months... just get voicemail saying he is away on holiday... however all emails checked... but not as sent a few.

I even contacted there ebay store... nothing.

[picclock]

@Hulksmash
I am just stripping down a 32B from toolco for CNC conversion. I visited Warco and checked out the other machines from Chester et al., but the Toolco (Weiss Machines) one was the best. The base castings are thicker with better geometry. The motor is more powerful with belt drive. I had to put up with the MT3 version but ordered a spindle from Michael Weiss, the machine manufacturer.

I found Toolco not easy to deal with, but it was worth it for the quality of the machine.

The only snag I can find is the top spindle speed which is something over 2000 rpm. Options for me are to change the pulley ratio or fit a high speed spindle in parallel on the head. Ways and general machine tolerances are extremely good. I can pm you Michael Weiss's email address if you think it will help.

Best Regards

picclock

[Hulksmash]

@Hulksmash
I am just stripping down a 32B from toolco for CNC conversion. I visited Warco and checked out the other machines from Chester et al., but the Toolco (Weiss Machines) one was the best. The base castings are thicker with better geometry. The motor is more powerful with belt drive. I had to put up with the MT3 version but ordered a spindle from Michael Weiss, the machine manufacturer.

I found Toolco not easy to deal with, but it was worth it for the quality of the machine.

The only snag I can find is the top spindle speed which is something over 2000 rpm. Options for me are to change the pulley ratio or fit a high speed spindle in parallel on the head. Ways and general machine tolerances are extremely good. I can pm you Michael Weiss's email address if you think it will help.

Best Regards

picclock

Many thanks picclock,

That would be brilliant please if you could pm his email address.

Its between a 32B toolco machine or an Amadeal AMAT30 - I would want an R8 spindle too

Is the owner of toolco still alive ???? I cn never get hold of him. Would Michael Weiss sell direct ?

Yes I will probably add a spindle in parallel re spindle speed, would be good to know someone else was doing it.

regards

Mike