Reliable printer out of the box ?

[dudz]

I have a CNC for aluminium but would like to have a stab at 3d printing. right now Id rather just buy one rather than build.

Can anyone recommend a half decent one for use with most types of filament with a self levelling bed ?

My budget is probably up to 800 usd. . Not sure if that will get me anything

[Neale]

How about Prusa? Can't remember latest model number but good reputation. Save a bit building from a kit. Lots of cheaper clones around but the real Prusa gives you best chance of just "assemble and it works." At a price...

Reports from people buying the clones often say things like "once I had fixed the problem with..." You hear of the odd Prusa with a problem but their customer service is pretty good. I'm happy with mine.

[dudz]

Ok thanks. Sounds good. Seen this one :
https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3-kit.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7OqtudTL6AIVSwwrCh2eUAN sEAAYASAAEgJeWvD_BwE

I don’t ever run out of things to mill on the CNC but I do struggle to imagine many useful products I can produce out of plastics. Maybe that will change once I have one.

[Doddy]

Look at your build volume requirements. That pretty much constrains your choice of printer or what you can usefully do with it.

The technology is evolving quickly and models (and filaments) improve on each other year on year. I moved from a home-built RepRap (similar to the prusa) through the Qidi models (Chinese knockoffs of the Flashforges) - just recently replacing a Qidi Tech 1 (dual extruder) with a X-Max (outside your price range) - these have been solid printers that out-performed each other.

My motivation for the latest printer...

1) Build volume
2) LAN support (the tech-1 introduced problems with unsigned USB drivers on Mac which meant I had to print via SD-Card which I couldn't be arsed with)
3) Flexible magnetic build bed - fantastic invention that I'd now never be without. If you've ever swung a hammer to remove an item from the build bed then you'd appreciate being able to remove the bed, lightly bend it and watch the article pop off with ease.
4) Single extruder (rarely/never used dual - and dual introduces build issues with unwanted additional collisions with the item under construction),
5) Physical build - you'll know the benefit of rigidity with a router - the same applies to the 3d printers. More is better.
6) Enclosure - more of an issue with cats and wife - but it's whisper quiet (she's complain at 5am if it's still printing, but.... compared to the earlier models it's do-able), and some passable attempt at filtering odour.

Re. use?, I agree - I hate 3d printed items - generally wrong material and wrong construction for whatever you're building but they can provide a quick, cheap (ignoring printer cost) and nearly-neat solution in many, many situations.

[Muzzer]

I had an Ultimaker 2 back in 2013/4. I now have a Cetus3D which is just as good as the UM ever was. No experience of other brands but certainly, for £300 shipped from the UK, it seems a good deal. It comes 90% set up and needs very little effort to get it printing https://www.cetus3d.com/.

They do various offers from time to time and mine shipped with a variety of nozzles, filaments etc. I like the wifi connection which allows you to start and monitor jobs remotely.

I've used it to make junction boxes etc that are suitable for real applications - it's got applications that you can't sensibly achieve with conventional machine tools.

Here's one I dd earlier:
https://mightyshiz.blogspot.com/2018/12/enclosure-for-line-driver.html

[m_c]

I've got a Creality Ender 3 Pro.

One of my mates has been into hobby 3D printing for a while, and that's what he recommended. He reckoned it was the minimum you could spend to have something that just works straight out the box without endless fiddling.

Since having it, and having looked at a few other options, I'd agree with him. There is a lot of support, and upgrade parts should you need them. I've got a new controller/touchscreen to install, which I might get installed this weekend, but I only bought it because I want to see for myself how much more silent the 'silent' stepper drivers are, and I fancied a touchscreen. The original controller however does the job perfectly well.

IIRC I paid about £190 for the printer via Creality's AliExpress store, including the glass bed option, as it was on special offer at the time.

[JAZZCNC]

I've got a creality 10S and I'm very happy with it.

[dudz]

Doddy. Great input.

I see that most if not all have not got a very big build area. What if I wanted to build something at say 400mm long ,150 wide and 150 tall ? I suppose the material would cool too much before the next layer was put down ?

[Doddy]

With the build volume I have I can expect more than 5 minutes to put down a layer, so I think the argument about material cooling is moot. With decent settings you're depositing filament onto the existing structure and re-melting it to form the bond.

400x150x150?, material-wise shouldn't be an issue. It's the damned bed that's the issue on that. The CR-10S that Jazz has would fit that (rotated), and that's where you'll often find yourself with an insufficiently-sized printer - trying to rotate the job to fit the available envelope. Or building in sections and bolting together, but only if the design supports that.

There's a strong argument to building your own if you have a specific volume in mind that isn't easily addressed by commercial jobs, but I think a lot of us just want a printer that works out-of-the-box.

One further bit of advice - if you come across resin printers - caution - build volume sucks, curing technology is immature compared to filament deposition, all sorts of problems with flat surfaces on build films, need drain holes for resin, material handling sucks and it does hit your respiratory system. Been there, worn the tee-shirt, gave the printer away.

[diycnc]

It's been a while since I used my scratch built 3d printer. Not because I dont have anything i want to print, but because one of the 3d printed parts broke and I never got around to fixing it.
There are a few things a alway tell people who are considering getting one.

Firstly they are very slow! Large prints with standard nozzles can easily take days. For large prints I suggest looking at e3d volcano hot ends, they cut print time massively and even produced stronger parts. I hardly ever used anything other than a 0.8mm volcano. You wont find one out of the box with a volcano, but it's a very easy upgrade.

Secondary, dont underestimate the strength of a well designed and printed plastic part. Especially the fiber reinforced stuff.

[JAZZCNC]

The CR-10S that Jazz has would fit that (rotated), and that's where you'll often find yourself with an insufficiently-sized printer - trying to rotate the job to fit the available envelope. Or building in sections and bolting together, but only if the design supports that.

Wouldn't need to rotate it at 150x150 with CR10S. But it would take days to print at 400 high with any decent quality. Think if I was building tall parts I'd fit it inside a box to retain the heat and probably upgrade the bed. But that said I've not done a thing to my printer other than print adjusting knobs for the bed to make it easier to setup and I'm very happy with it for what I do, which isn't anything fancy or taxing.


Secondary, dont underestimate the strength of a well designed and printed plastic part. Especially the fiber reinforced stuff.

I can vouch for that,. I've printed lots of parts for testing on machines and I've also got a couple of customer machines running 3D printed PLA motor mounts in a 10hr day working environment. All the machines I build have at least 3-5 individual 3D printed parts ie: Limit brackets etc and growing as they test out ok.

[dudz]

I see the Cr10s has one variant which is 500x500x500 build area. Good size but wow is that expensive (for me anyhow)

[dudz]

I've got a Creality Ender 3 Pro.


IIRC I paid about £190 for the printer via Creality's AliExpress store, including the glass bed option, as it was on special offer at the time.

I’m a bit confused about this. I buy Chinese parts all the time. But wouldn’t a printer coming from China be a clone of the real thing ? And therefore worse quality ? Or is it a Chinese brand ?

[dudz]

https://www.creality3d.shop/products/creality-3d-cr-10s-pro-v2?variant=31145134424130

Best I can find for the money

[JAZZCNC]

https://www.creality3d.shop/products/creality-3d-cr-10s-pro-v2?variant=31145134424130

Best I can find for the money

A lot of this V2 is sales hype. Don't take any notice of things like the Resume after power-down features because while it does do exactly that it never works out good because the print as cooled down so the new layer doesn't stick which makes virtually useless. The V1 also as this feature.
The Dual gear filament head looks exactly the same as what's on my 10S but they have integrated the out-or-filament switch into the head by looks of it. Again this nothing special.
The extruder looks pretty much the same but they have a switch type bed leveling sensor fastened to it. Again nothing special and could easily be added for a few Euro's.

The main thing I see between the V1 and V2 is the base now houses the electronics which I wouldn't want if I'm honest. The heat of the bed and printing cannot be good long term for those electronics. Large prints take days and all the heat from printing will radiate down into that box. I much prefer my separate box.

I wouldn't pay $200 more for the V2 I'd buy the 10S and upgrade it with the $200 saved, then you'll have a really great machine.

[m_c]

I’m a bit confused about this. I buy Chinese parts all the time. But wouldn’t a printer coming from China be a clone of the real thing ? And therefore worse quality ? Or is it a Chinese brand ?

Creality is a Chinese company. The official website is www.creality3dofficial.com

They've done a brilliant job of refining their printers to make them as cheap as possible, while still being reliable, so they filled the gap between the absolute budget build/print your own using hundreds of bits then spend hours fettling it to get it to print consistently, and the more expensive turnkey solutions.

[dudz]

i use emachineshop (free) cad software and Cambam (licenced) for my CNC projects.

Whats a good combination for 3d printers please ?. Ive never had any exp with them

[JAZZCNC]

i use emachineshop (free) cad software and Cambam (licenced) for my CNC projects.

Whats a good combination for 3d printers please ?. Ive never had any exp with them

You want a 3D modeling software that can save in STL format. Then use a Slicer like Cura to create the G-code. I think fusion 360 now also a slicer integrated into it.

[Boyan Silyavski]

If you want a reliable printer and your money to go into the right direction buy Prusa or Steel, as they have better quality electronics.


Hi guys, a bit late in the discussion.

If you don't want to spend money, buy it assembled second hand, as many of the freaks will like to buy the latest edition and could be selling one in classifieds. And search Facebook for the Prusa group and ask there.



Under 1k there are not other better or reliable printers. All else has a serious fault or 2. Not that the prusa is perfect, as it would have benefited from hiwin12 and would have become perfect.



When i say reliable printer i mean to work 24h without any fault and produce impeccable parts, properly sized parts that fit together, and most of all does not burn your house.


In a printer there are like 100 things to adjust in the program for one to understand properly what's going on. It took me about a month to become an expert, playing 10h per day with the thing. Once you understand the logic behind everything its very easy to correct deviations. The Prusa printer helped in that as was super reliable.

Now add to that a crappy printer, with crappy electronics and god forbid crappy extruder and you will never understand whats going on and it will finish in a corner somewhere.

Just my 2 cents.

PS. I print and sell a cnc dust shoe / see signature/, it takes like 24h to print the main part and it has to have a tight fit to any spindle. Its a very tricky print as one has to take into account also the retraction of the material after print, that is opposite for the 2 holes, one tries to become bigger and the other smaller due to the material cooling and stressing the print. Also have printed my self working Japanese flute, working chuck, and many more things, usable things. Also have repaired my friends crappy printer so i know the difference

What i am saying is the main thing is to learn the printing and concentrate on designing and producing, not figuring what is not right and repairing. Filament is cheap, but a 24h print is 20e in materials. A couple of fails and you are in the hundreds of lost money

[Doddy]

i use emachineshop (free) cad software and Cambam (licenced) for my CNC projects.

Whats a good combination for 3d printers please ?. Ive never had any exp with them

You probably should understand the tool-chain.

CAD: You have your CAD software - which you're familiar with from your CNC work. That's pretty much your choice.

TESSALATION: Now, the 3D modelling/printing process then leads you to tessellation - the transformation of the CAD output into a description modelled into 3D space in terms of generating a (lot of) triangular faces that describe the object. Imagine the wireframe image of a 3D-object, that's kinda what I'm struggling to describe. That is the STL format that Jazz eludes to. If your CAD will generate STL then stick with that. F360 (that I'm familiar with) will export objects as STLs. https://www.emachineshop.com/help-import-export/#undefined suggests the emachineshop's CAD software will also do this. You probably want to use CAD software that exports the STL directly rather than using a 3rd-party agent.

SLICER: Next, you feed the STL object into the slicer. The purpose of the slicer software is broadly similar to CAM - it generates a series of layers, maybe 0.25m in height each (user programmable) and generates the X/Y tool path for the 3D printer, often presented as G-Code. Each layer is essentially a horizontal slice through the STL model at that given height (hence the name). There's lots of slicers on the market, usually bundled with the machine (and maybe optimised for the machine). It's within the slicer that you'll control filament parameters (extrusion rate, retractions), extruders (temperatures, cooling fans), machine (feed rates), to output a file suited to print.

PRINTING: Maybe integrated into the slicer, or a separate printer control program, or you simply dump the output from the slicer straight onto the printer (removable media) and print from the printer.

My particular toolchain:

Fusion 360 for CAD and tessellation. The STL Export integrates with the "QIDI Print" application that provides the slicing and is a poor-man's version of the very popular Cura software. From there I can export over WiFi to the printer and elect to print from that software. So, in a nut-shell, F360 and Qidi-Print.

But your choice will be very dependent on your CAD intent and your choice of printer.

[JAZZCNC]

The STL Export integrates with the "QIDI Print" application that provides the slicing and is a poor-man's version of the very popular Cura software.

What do you mean "poor-mans version" Cura is FREE just download and go.! . . . Takes minutes to install and few minutes to setup. I had no experience of 3D printers when I downloaded and was prinitng within 10minutes things that where perfectly fine for my needs. Another few hours playing with settings and I had, what was for my needs, a dialed in setup.
Maybe not dialed like Boyan describes where I'd use it to makes parts to sell but parts that are more than good enough for prototyping or simple things like limit brackets, odd shaped boxs etc etc the list goes on. These things are so usefull.!!

https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura

[Doddy]

@Jazz: I'm basically a lazy b'tard. That answer pretty much sums up most of my life choices.

Qidi Print v5.3.2 is based on Cura v<can't remember - an old version>, re-skinned for Qidi and with supplemental device drivers. The Qidi print integrates the Wifi interface to the printer that Cura (tried 4.5) does not - at least not with the Qidi printer. There's all sorts of hacks online to import the model of the X-Max's print bed, and people get a long way towards using Cura but stop to either print to a memory stick or to integrate Octoprint. The latter interests me mildly, the former does not (the X-Max doesn't support USB printing, so everything is either network [not Cura] or USB stick / touch-screen).

I've diff'd the Qidi-Print installation vs Cura hoping to hand-crank dropping the Qidi-specifics onto a Cura install but there are architectural changes in both directory and file structure that make this challenging (see first sentence).

EDIT: To OP, Octoprint is a RPI build that provides network/wifi (I think HTTP/Web-based) interface to the printer - you install this onto the target machine and it allows you to send the sliced file through network/octoprint and it then manages the printer and provides notification back to the user, offers options like local camera support/monitor. Nice idea.

[Boyan Silyavski]

If you guys dont mind will try to explain here some stuff in detail and offer some tips. Even if you are an advanced 3d print user you may find sth usefull

I use Simplify 3d and IMO is worth the price even if only if they were the first to offer on their web site a tutorial how to figure what's wrong with ones print. In times where nobody had it clear and all was a speculation,
Though i can do the same with most of the main slicers, i find that the Simplify3d is better at the job for complex prints and more straightforward and easy to understand and control.

A couple of tips to begin with 3d printing and have perfect result:

There are some points that are a must to understand and do, thanks god that we are CNC people, so i don't have to explain you that the main thing to do before print is measure the filament diameter and introduce it before slicing. The exact roll filament diameter, not some ideal 1.75mm. 99% of children on facebook groups don't do that and after that ask stupid questions :joker:


Second thing to understand is that the 0.4mm nozzle is best for general work and that leads to 2 things. Fine print layer must be 0.2mm and fast print layer height must be 0.3mm
Print width must be 0.5mm and must be set on manual in slicer. And the design must be done so that wall thickness is divisible to 0.5mm so it could be only XX.5 or XX.00mm. Same is with the height of the model must be divisible to 0.3mm as probably you will print mainly on fast or to 0.2mmm if you print on fine. Object must be exported with 0.05mm or better precision from CAD or there will be visible liner where circles are


Third thing to tune is what's red in the picture bellow and there is no better way than ask in forum or group for your printer and start with a profile that's already working perfectly. Otherwise you are doomed

27745

Every different filament has contraction once printed which is different in Z from XY, so a test model like 50mm OD x5mm H is good to be printed and play with it until you get everything right. Is small and cheap and easy to figure what's going on. No need for complicated figures and boats. Normally i slice at 101.5% from original model, hence generally filament contracts a bit after printing so i upscale my models with 1.25 to 1.5% depends on filament. Normally the print is like xx.05mm precise which is not bad at all.


Push Tight Tit is achieved with elements offset 1 print width from each other and Normal Tight fit is around 2 print widths and more for looser. In other words to fit 50mm OD circle in a ring, the ring has 5.8mm-6mm ID


Next thing to understand is that 30% infill is the ideal. Nothing better happens if you raise it except if you are printing gears and such. For solid and usable objects 4 layers on all sides is ideal, 3 is usable but 4 guarantees that will not break.

27746

I use rafts on all prints as i want all well supported and flat. And supports where necessary with the last 2 layers of the support solid at 80% so next layer starts with finish from below like printed on ground zero
It's crucial to adjust the separation distance even 0.05mm is critical , so use the 50mm disc to test. that settings is directly connected with the temperature you print at, so if you raise temp things will glue together and that separation should be adjusted

27747


On forums and facebook groups you will hear talk about ridiculously fast speeds. Nope. Any printer not using servos and 300eu controller can not print with precise result faster than this below. Apart from that the filament has limit in its how to say it- acceleration of fluidity and stickiness , so that are the correct speeds

27748


And at last the filament . Tried many but worth working and learning are ABS/ must be printed in Enclosure/ and mainly use PETG as it has the best of all worlds and useful object could be done with it so its my main filament. Nylon and other special plastics for specific products.


To find the correct temperature for the filament the best way is to print the said 50 OD x5mm H cylinder at 30% infill and with the adjustments above all done, then look at the first layer after the infill which has cell structure. If the filament falls in between the cells temp is high, if top wall is straight then temp is right.
good thing is you can adjust the temp and look at the immediate result, use touch to see well.

Hope that mini tutorial will help people fine tune their printing

[dudz]

Thank everyone for the detailed information !. Must have taken quite some time

When I get a printer I will def have a crack at this.

[dudz]

No used 3d printers in NZ that I can find atm.

Done a search online for new. Not many companys in NZ that are allowed to trade atm.

Best One I could find (in stock) and able to trade is ; https://nz.element14.com/creality-3d/cr-10s/3d-printer-300-x-300-x-400mm-240vac/dp/2843627#

[Doddy]

Deleted - see next post

[JAZZCNC]

$250 aus?, I thought you could buy new for about that?

I wasn't going to advise a specific printer, but I have had the pleasure of working on one of those (different badge, but looks identical in the picture) getting it working for an apprentice that works for me. Consumer low-end grade and it'll shake itself to bits over time (I went around it replacing all nuts with nylocs). Build volume is small and this particular one has a problem with "thermal runaway" - from observing the behaviour there comes a point where the PID controller for the bed heater goes out of kilter (maybe PSU is poorly spec'd for the bed/extruder/motors) and it throws this error and halts the print. That is probably specific to that one build but I wouldn't crawl over broken glass to buy this as my first printer.

https://au.banggood.com/TRONXY-P802M-DIY-3D-Printer-Kit-220220240mm-Printing-Size-Support-Off-line-Print-1_75mm-0_4mm-p-1149546.html?cur_warehouse=CN

Aha, 250 aud to UK, but 330 to Aus. I'm starting to see the problems of living a continent away.

Doddy are you talking about Creality 10S which is linked in DudZ last post.? if so then your very wrong. I've got the same one and it's great. The build size isn't small at 300 x 300 x 400 and it's never given me any trouble with any electrical issues.?

[Doddy]

Doddy are you talking about Creality 10S which is linked in DudZ last post.? if so then your very wrong. I've got the same one and it's great. The build size isn't small at 300 x 300 x 400 and it's never given me any trouble with any electrical issues.?

Erm. I must have hit the gin early today - I thought the link was to something altogether different. Deleted original post to avoid spreading confusion.

[dudz]

Sorry Guys, I did edit out the first link. Didnt think anyone would be about . I did search some used printers, but they either had very small build areas or just shit. The Creality 10S happens to be the Only (as you said decent) one in stock and available to ship in NZ during lockdown.

Cant see ABS listed as an option with this printer ?. Whats the general better material to use for strong parts ?.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Cant see ABS listed as an option with this printer ?. Whats the general better material to use for strong parts ?.

ABS needs an enclosure, simple from cardboard or polystyrene foam, or more complex from wood and glass. You could print simple stiff without a box enclosure but anything complicated will be a 100% fail. Apart from that ABS is weak.

PETG is the filament that does it all, strong and does not melt from the sun in a car dashboard for example. No good for engine and near engine..

And when you learn the PETG, Nylon is next as this is the filament for more resistant parts and car parts


Its absolutely pointless to buy and use PLA. before an year or 2 it was the cheapest and PETG was triple the price. |Now that prices are almost same, there is no point. parts are strong and is easy to print but will melt left at sunshine.