PDA

View Full Version : eBay TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Boards



Mad Professor
03-11-2009, 10:09 AM
Good Day All.

Has anyone here got or do you know anything about the TB6560 stepper motor driver boards (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=TB6560&_sacat=See-All-Categories) that are being sold on eBay.

From the bad english in the ebay listings it looks like thease boards can run upto 36volts and upto 3amp stepper motors.

But detailed info is very limited.

I am just after your toughts on this item.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

irving2008
03-11-2009, 11:40 AM
Good Day All.

Has anyone here got or do you know anything about the TB6560 stepper motor driver boards (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=TB6560&_sacat=See-All-Categories) that are being sold on eBay.

From the bad english in the ebay listings it looks like thease boards can run upto 36volts and upto 3amp stepper motors.

But detailed info is very limited.

I am just after your toughts on this item.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

First thing to understanmd is never believe what suppliers say the capabilities of their boards are... read the datasheet for the chips and look at the construction.

Here we have 4 TB6560 devices sharing a single force cooled heatsink approx 30mm x 80mm x 10mm. That heatsink has a thermal resistance of about 6decC/watt and with the fan thats maybe improved to 4degC/watt (the airflow is pretty restricted). So each device is effectively fixed to a heatsink of 16degC/Watt (under worst case conditions - all axis functioning) or 12degC/W for 3-axis use.

Now look at the datasheet for the TB6560. Its allowed to run the junction at 150degC max before the thermal shutdown cuts in and the thermal resistance junction to case is 1.5degC/W. So adding that to the heatsink you have (3-axis) 12.5degC/W thermal resistance. So maximum dissipation at 25degC ambient is (150 - 25)/10.5 = 10W.

The power dissipation of the chip is approx 2 x On resistance x output current^2 = 2 x 0.4 x I^2 and this is maximum 10W so rearranging

I = sqrt(10/(2 x 0.4)) = sqrt(10/0.8) = 3.5A

So on the face of this this board can run 3A/phase steppers at full output on 3-Axis, and will probably be ok on 4-axis, but its pushing close to the thermal cutoff of the chip...

Gary
03-11-2009, 10:03 PM
I like this bit.

Suppliers Warranty:
We offer one month warranty on all products purchased from us. If your item has any warranty issue please contact us for a satisfying solution.

Is that from delivery or dispatch?

Mad Professor
05-11-2009, 08:31 PM
I have ordered one of thease TB6560 boards back on the 27/10/2009, before I asked about them here.

I have no idea how long it is going to take to get from china to me with all the dam royal mail strikes on going.

The eBay ad says that it should only take upto 6-10 business days, but I will have to wait and see.

I went for the TB6560 over the TA8435H as it is ment to support upto 36volts, and the TA8435H can only support upto 24volts.

I am going to be using this board with my Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors.

I am looking at running 34volts to try and get as much speed out of the stepper motors as possible.

I will report back once I have got the board.

Ross77
05-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Hi

I'm interseted to see how you get on, I've been looking at them myself but put off by the fact its all on one board and max 36v.
But £50 ish for 4 axis with opto sounds like my budget :beer:

Mad Professor
06-11-2009, 03:19 PM
Well the post and been and gone today, but no sign of my parcel yet.

Oh well it looks like I will not get unto next week now.

I have been reading the so called bad english manual for the driver board to work out what DIP Switch settings I am going to need.

I am only intrested in switches 1-4.

Switches 1-2 are for the current setting, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

Is this a case of 3.00amps, 2.25amps, 1.50amps, 0.70amps, or does the board self sence the current and when at idle or hold, hold the current at said % of the stepper motors max current.

Next is Switchts 3-4 for the Buffer, the manual just has, Fast, 25%, 50%, Slow, so at a guess I need to set it to Fast.

Then the last two switches 5-6 are for the step modes, this I understand.

irving2008
06-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Well the post and been and gone today, but no sign of my parcel yet.

Oh well it looks like I will not get unto next week now.

I have been reading the so called bad english manual for the driver board to work out what DIP Switch settings I am going to need.

I am only intrested in switches 1-4.

Switches 1-2 are for the current setting, 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%.

Is this a case of 3.00amps, 2.25amps, 1.50amps, 0.70amps, or does the board self sence the current and when at idle or hold, hold the current at said % of the stepper motors max current.

Next is Switchts 3-4 for the Buffer, the manual just has, Fast, 25%, 50%, Slow, so at a guess I need to set it to Fast.

Then the last two switches 5-6 are for the step modes, this I understand.

If you look at the datasheet here (http://www.toshiba.com/taec/components/Datasheet/TB6560AHQ_AFG_E_2003_20080215.pdf), pages 9 and 10 you will see that switches 1-2 are the torque current settings relative to maximum current(default 100%) and switches 3-4 are the Decay Modes (default I suspect should be fast). The max current is actually set by the big resistors on the board, but its hard to tell what colour the stripes are, should be Brown, green, silver, silver which is 0.15ohm for 3.3A.

Mad Professor
06-11-2009, 06:36 PM
irving2008: Thanks for your reply, I have just been hunting around the net to see if I can find better pictures.

So far all I have been about to find are thease two pictures.

http://www.savebase.com/InfoBase/MEGA-SUPPLY/PKG/001455/001455_1.jpg
http://www.savebase.com/InfoBase/MEGA-SUPPLY/PKG/001455/001455_7.jpg

To me it looks like the current sence resistors are, Brown, Brown, Silver, Gold, 0.11ohm 5%.
If that is right we are looking at 4.5A.

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 10:47 AM
Well the board has just this sec turned up.

I was worng about the current sence resistors, they are infact, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%, so thats a current limit of 1.51amps.

I have not done any testing yet, so I will report back with how I get on.

irving2008
10-11-2009, 10:58 AM
Well the board has just this sec turned up.

I was worng about the current sence resistors, they are infact, Orange, Orange, Silver, Gold, 0.33ohm 5%, so thats a current limit of 1.51amps.

I have not done any testing yet, so I will report back with how I get on.
That makes little sense... probably worth measuring them. Look forward to hearing your verdict....

How long did they take to arrive in the end?

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 11:00 AM
It was ordered on the 27/10/2009, and posted on the 28/10/2009, and got here today 10/11/2009, so two weeks to the day from ordering.

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 11:43 AM
Well with not quite knowing what is going on with regards to the current sensing resistors I tought it would be best to test how much current the board is pulling.

I am using a bench PSU with a clean adjustable voltage output, the PSU shows me the set voltage and current load.

I have preset the PSU to 13.8volts.

The board by it's self with no stepper motors connected is pulling 0.20a.

Here are the reading with just one stepper motor connected, with the board set to enable and motors at idle.

DIP Switches 3-6 are set to ON.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 1.23a - 0.20a = 1.03a total /2 = 0.51a per phase.
OFF/ON: 0.76a - 0.20a = 0.56a total /2 = 0.28a per phase.
ON/OFF: 0.46a - 0.20a = 0.26a total /2 = 0.13a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.25a - 0.20a = 0.05a total /2 = 0.02a per phase.

Bipolar Series
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
OFF/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
ON/OFF: 1.05a - 0.20a = 0.85a total /2 = 0.42a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.40a - 0.20a = 0.20a total /2 = 0.10a per phase.

All the readings are aprox.

Now I am even more confused then when I started. :confused:

irving2008
10-11-2009, 02:46 PM
Well with not quite knowing what is going on with regards to the current sensing resistors I tought it would be best to test how much current the board is pulling.

I am using a bench PSU with a clean adjustable voltage output, the PSU shows me the set voltage and current load.

I have preset the PSU to 13.8volts.

The board by it's self with no stepper motors connected is pulling 0.20a.

Here are the reading with just one stepper motor connected, with the board set to enable and motors at idle.

DIP Switches 3-6 are set to ON.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 1.23a - 0.20a = 1.03a total /2 = 0.51a per phase.
OFF/ON: 0.76a - 0.20a = 0.56a total /2 = 0.28a per phase.
ON/OFF: 0.46a - 0.20a = 0.26a total /2 = 0.13a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.25a - 0.20a = 0.05a total /2 = 0.02a per phase.

Bipolar Series
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
OFF/ON: 2.10a - 0.20a = 1.90a total /2 = 0.95a per phase.
ON/OFF: 1.05a - 0.20a = 0.85a total /2 = 0.42a per phase.
OFF/OFF: 0.40a - 0.20a = 0.20a total /2 = 0.10a per phase.

All the readings are aprox.

Now I am even more confused then when I started. :confused:Measure the voltage across each phase... I suspect only one phase is energised when the motor is idling so your "/2" is wrong... what motors are these and what DC resistance?

At a guess I'd say your parallel and series figures are swapped. Again whats the DC resistance across A+ & A- in each mode?

Also remember that the chopper current limiting will regulate peak currents. A 1.5A nominal peak will show up as a 1.5/sqrt(2) RMS current on an analogue meter, i.e. about 1A. It doesnt make a lot of sense unless the resistance of the motors is such that the figure should have been higher on the 100% setting but would need more volts (anything higher than 5ohms would not get to the expected 3A peak - 2.2A rms - current limit on 13.8v, would need 24v)

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 03:10 PM
I am using Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors (http://www.astrosyn.co.uk/docs/MY103H702.pdf) <click link for datasheet.

I will do the other tests shortly.

irving2008
10-11-2009, 06:56 PM
I am using Astrosyn MY103H702 stepper motors (http://www.astrosyn.co.uk/docs/MY103H702.pdf) <click link for datasheet.

I will do the other tests shortly.

Same motors I have.

I was wondering if the switches are actually adjusting the idle current when the motor is stationary and not the operating current, the data sheet isnt clear. If that was the case then the 100% setting corresponds to the RMS phase current set by the resistors which would be the RMS current shown by the ammeter

The maximum peak current this could be for these motors on 13.3v (allowing .5v for Vref) is:
Unipolar: 13.3/6.2 = 2A (which appears to be your bipolar series setting)
Bipolar Parallel 13.3/3.1 = 4A
Bipolar Series 13.3/12.4 = 1A (which appears to be your bipolar parallel setting)

Do you have a stand-alone ammeter or a 'scope?

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 07:20 PM
I have tested the voltage outputs from both phases, and they are both powered wile at idle.

Bipolar Parallel: 4.00 to 4.15volts.
Bipolar Series: 12.95 to 13.00volts.

I do have a DVM with ammeter but it is quite old so don't know how good it will be.

I also do have a PicoScope 2202 USB Oscilloscope (http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2202-specifications.html).

irving2008
10-11-2009, 07:39 PM
I have tested the voltage outputs from both phases, and they are both powered wile at idle.

Bipolar Parallel: 4.00 to 4.15volts.
Bipolar Series: 12.95 to 13.00volts.

I do have a DVM with ammeter but it is quite old so don't know how good it will be.

I also do have a PicoScope 2202 USB Oscilloscope (http://www.picotech.com/picoscope2202-specifications.html).


Easiest way to verify the current is to plot the voltage across the sense resistors. If you have the latest PicoSoft 6 software it will, if I recall right, calculate the RMS and peak currents for you (I have a Pico3205 scope), or you can easily work it out...

Mad Professor
10-11-2009, 08:22 PM
I am running PicoScope v6.3.4.0.

I have not had this scope long so I am still finding my way around the settings, so I am not 100% sure what you are after.

Bipolar Parallel:
True RMS Avg 120mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 1.15v

Bipolar Series:
True RMS Avg 80mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 30mv.

irving2008
10-11-2009, 11:27 PM
I am running PicoScope v6.3.4.0.

I have not had this scope long so I am still finding my way around the settings, so I am not 100% sure what you are after.

Bipolar Parallel:
True RMS Avg 120mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 1.15v

Bipolar Series:
True RMS Avg 80mv.
Peak to Peak Avg 30mv.

1.15v peak over .33 ohm = 3.5A peak, RMS = .36A

80mV over .33ohm = 0.24A, but the peak looks low, sure it wasnt 300mV?

Can you post the waveforms?

Mad Professor
11-11-2009, 09:54 AM
Sure I can save the waveforms, do you want them as screenshots or save the waveforms to an output file?

irving2008
11-11-2009, 11:31 AM
Sure I can save the waveforms, do you want them as screenshots or save the waveforms to an output file?I usually do screen capture or print as PDF.

Attached are 3 captures from my L297/L298 board using the same motor at 500, 750 and 900 steps/sec on a 36v supply, wired bipolar parallel (coil resistance = 3.2ohm).

This shows the A-enable signal (blue) and the sense voltage (red). The sense voltage is directly proportional to the current in the coil (x 2), so .5v = 1A. At 500stesp/sec the RMS voltage is 0.64v, a current of 1.3A RMS, the peak voltage being 0.9v equivalent to 1.8A. You can see that the current doesn't start to flow (indeed its negative slightly at the start of the cycle which is due to the back emf/collapsing field of the previous cycle) until 0.7mS into the cycle, it then ramps up due to the inductance of the coils (these being high inductance motors i.e. not very fast) until it finally gets to the current limit and the driver goes into chopping.

At 750stesp/sec the RMS current has dropped to about 1A, the peak still being 1.8A. This is because the initial start-up and ramp is a greater proportion of the cycle time.

At 900steps/sec the current never gets to the set limit before the cycle ends... this is the fastest the motor will go at this voltage and the power output wil be low, the RMS current here is about 0.5A.

To go faster with these motors needs about 70v...

Setting Vref using the scope like this is much more accurate than adjusting it statically or relying on the overall current consumption.

Mad Professor
14-11-2009, 10:08 AM
This board is ment to be rated upto 36vdc, So I tried using my 36vdc 10A PSU.

I set the board to it's lowest current setting on the DIP switches to make sure I did not burn out or over heat my stepper motor, I am only testing X-Axis atm.

Powered up the board, and all the lights and the fan came on, Turned it all off and, when I next turned it back on, I was greated with a nice pop / bang, with sparks, and blue / white smoke.

Part of the Z-Axis TB6560AHQ had exploded, Oh Joy.

I have since looked at some of the datasheet for the Absolute Maximum Rating.

L7812CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
L7805CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
TB6560AHQ - 40 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.

I will post a pic of the poor TB6560AHQ chip once I have uploaded it to my site.

irving2008
14-11-2009, 12:16 PM
This board is ment to be rated upto 36vdc, So I tried using my 36vdc 10A PSU.

I set the board to it's lowest current setting on the DIP switches to make sure I did not burn out or over heat my stepper motor, I am only testing X-Axis atm.

Powered up the board, and all the lights and the fan came on, Turned it all off and, when I next turned it back on, I was greated with a nice pop / bang, with sparks, and blue / white smoke.

Part of the Z-Axis TB6560AHQ had exploded, Oh Joy.

I have since looked at some of the datasheet for the Absolute Maximum Rating.

L7812CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
L7805CV - 35 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.
TB6560AHQ - 40 Volts Absolute Maximum Rating.

I will post a pic of the poor TB6560AHQ chip once I have uploaded it to my site.
Can you turn down the power supply? Mine goes down to 32 and up to 40v. it could be that back-emf from the motor had damaged the chip by spiking the supply - I'd limit that board to a 30v supply if it has regulators on-board unless they have an additional dropping zener diode in series. On my board you can see spikes of 65v on deceleration, so I have a snubber (basically a 36v zener and a low ohm resistor) across the supply. Another solution, shown in the attached schematic uses a transistor to the same effect...

Mad Professor
14-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Here is a pic of what is left of the chip.

http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/Damaged%20TB6560AHQ%20Chip.jpg

My 36vdc PSU is not adjustable.

I now need to start looking at ways to limited the voltage and spikes.

I was looking at using a zener diode and Metal Oxide Varistor to deal with the spikes.

But I still have to look into it more.

irving2008
14-11-2009, 12:39 PM
Thats pretty impressive... any collateral damage as far as you can tell? I'd strip the chip off the board and then retest on the 13v supply and confirm other voltages are as expected...output of regs, logic levels, etc. and compare the voltages on equivalent pins of the remaining drivers - without motors attached.

No point in replacing it if there is more damage...

Alternatively you could send it back...

Mad Professor
14-11-2009, 02:50 PM
I have removed the damaged chip, and have powered it using my adjustable bench PSU, all the lights came on, no more smoke.

So it looks like only the one chip got damaged.

Tom
18-11-2009, 09:40 PM
Can you turn down the power supply? Mine goes down to 32 and up to 40v. it could be that back-emf from the motor had damaged the chip by spiking the supply - I'd limit that board to a 30v supply if it has regulators on-board unless they have an additional dropping zener diode in series. On my board you can see spikes of 65v on deceleration, so I have a snubber (basically a 36v zener and a low ohm resistor) across the supply. Another solution, shown in the attached schematic uses a transistor to the same effect...

Hi Irving,

That snubber circuit is very interesting... It's just what I need. I'm running one of those 50V power supplies that Kip found in "unregulated" mode at 43V. My drivers will smoke at 50V, so I'm nervous.
Can you point me towards any online material that would help size the components to dissipate the sort of spikes I'm likely to see?

Sorry to hijack! (maybe Irving's tip will save a few more driver boards... :)

Tom

irving2008
18-11-2009, 11:59 PM
Hi Irving,

That snubber circuit is very interesting... It's just what I need. I'm running one of those 50V power supplies that Kip found in "unregulated" mode at 43V. My drivers will smoke at 50V, so I'm nervous.
Can you point me towards any online material that would help size the components to dissipate the sort of spikes I'm likely to see?

Sorry to hijack! (maybe Irving's tip will save a few more driver boards... :)

Tom

Tom,

Yes, sadly I wasnt able to find an easy way to turn the volts on those down as they do some strange things with the internal reference line that doesn't follow the application note for the chip they use. I managed to blow one up quite spectacularly!

When I said zener diode I really meant a transient suppressor diode (transorb), such as these (http://www.vishay.com/docs/88316/bzw04.pdf)from Vishay. But i think clamping to 50v from a 43v supply might be tricky. A zener will clamp, but wont catch transients. you could use a 47v zener as a clamp with a 48v transorb in parallel to catch spikes, with a series low ohm resistor as a current limit between the supply rails. Farnell sell the transorbs, about 30p a go.

Dan Brown
19-11-2009, 04:27 PM
Hows it going with that board then Mad professor? any joy with it yet?

I've now got exactly the same board and motors sitting on my table, i'm just waiting for my pci parallel port extension to turn up so i'm dying to find out how much money wasted/saved

Mad Professor
19-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Dan Brown: I have not done any more testing since after removing the damaged chip.

I have tested that all the other axis are still working using my adjustable bench power supply, but I can only run the board / motors upto 15volts on this power supply.

But at this lower voltage my current rig is very slow, max of 200mm/min, for the very short time that the board was running at 36vdc I was closer to 450mm/min rapid move, not cutting.

I will be back to testing the current sence resistor and dip switches.

When using my scope with my bench PSU I always have to use my laptop on battery, as if the laptop on mains or a PC is used I get very strange readings on the scope software, so thats something else I have to look into.

irving2008
19-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Dan Brown: I have not done any more testing since after removing the damaged chip.

I have tested that all the other axis are still working using my adjustable bench power supply, but I can only run the board / motors upto 15volts on this power supply.

But at this lower voltage my current rig is very slow, max of 200mm/min, for the very short time that the board was running at 36vdc I was closer to 450mm/min rapid move, not cutting.

I will be back to testing the current sence resistor and dip switches.

When using my scope with my bench PSU I always have to use my laptop on battery, as if the laptop on mains or a PC is used I get very strange readings on the scope software, so thats something else I have to look into.

As per my thread above, on 36v the max step rate for these motors is 900steps/sec, thats 270rpm or about 500mm/min on a 2mm pitch screw.

Sounds like you have some ground loop problems. Make sure stepper PSU and scope/PC are on same power socket so they are earth referenced together. I cant use the same PC as the scope and the driver for the stepper, for the same reason...

Tom
19-11-2009, 06:56 PM
When I said zener diode I really meant a transient suppressor diode (transorb), such as these (http://www.vishay.com/docs/88316/bzw04.pdf)from Vishay. But i think clamping to 50v from a 43v supply might be tricky. A zener will clamp, but wont catch transients. you could use a 47v zener as a clamp with a 48v transorb in parallel to catch spikes, with a series low ohm resistor as a current limit between the supply rails. Farnell sell the transorbs, about 30p a go.

Thanks Irving!

That's just the right amount of info... I REALLY don't want to smoke these drivers, so I feel some internet research, followed by electrickery, coming on....
There's time because I'm not cutting in anger yet - just aligning, and debugging....

Cheers,

Mad Professor
20-11-2009, 06:52 PM
Today I have been able to find some free time to do some basic current testing using my bench power supply, and USB Oscilloscope.

Using the oscilloscope across the current sence resistor I get the following results.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 0.469v avg / 0.33ohm = 1.421a.
ON/OFF: 0.313v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.948a.
OFF/ON: 0.234v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.709a.
OFF/OFF: 0.078v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.236a.

irving2008
23-11-2009, 10:34 AM
Today I have been able to find some free time to do some basic current testing using my bench power supply, and USB Oscilloscope.

Using the oscilloscope across the current sence resistor I get the following results.

Bipolar Parallel
DIP Switches 1-2
ON/ON: 0.469v avg / 0.33ohm = 1.421a.
ON/OFF: 0.313v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.948a.
OFF/ON: 0.234v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.709a.
OFF/OFF: 0.078v avg / 0.33ohm = 0.236a.

That looks about right... i assume by average you mean RMS, so the peak current will be around 2A. Can you post waveforms as discussed?

RobMar
04-03-2010, 12:12 AM
Hi everybody, I'm just another new (and perplexed) user of the TB6560 board. (I'm from Italy, so forgive me for my bad english)
Due to lack and inaccuracy of the documentation available for the board, I've searched around and come by chance to this forum, where I've luckily found answers to some of my doubts and saved some chip-smoking (up to now...) thanks to many intrepid experts that shared their experiences. Kudos to you all.
Now, I've started to test the basic functions of the board (a blue 3-axis HYU68 from Ebay) with 3 NEMA-23 2A motors, 24V supply, just testing the basic signals on the 15-pin port (no parallel connection at this time)
The first problem I've encountered is that the pinout table shown on the manual seems to be wrong, with pins 9 to 15 reversed left to right, like if someone has correctly counted pins 1 to 8 of top row and then continued to count the numbers of second row backwards instead of going back to "new paragraph" as is customary on Cannon-type connectors. I say this because I've found the expected 5V and GND on pin 9 and 10 respectively, instead of 15 and 14 as stated in the manual. (the order of the top row 1-8 appears to be correct)
Did someone else notice this? (and also eventual other mismatches on the 25-pin parallel port?)
Thank you for any suggestion
Roberto

CAD_Rickosz
24-04-2010, 08:27 PM
Yes and do not not even once go over 24V with nema23 steppers or
you can put out the frying tonight sign just like my bit of electronics did.
2091

1113562
07-05-2010, 12:44 AM
Yes there is an error in the manual for the pin outs to the motors but the board silk screen is correct on my board as supplied.

My board came with a parallel cable for the PC and it seemed to all work after configuring the I/O on Mach3 to the settings that came in the chinglase manual! The problem I found was that the DIP settings for the microsteps was not correct. The 1/8 step was reversed with 1/16, a fairly minor problem but still irritating as I had a scaling error on movement until I figured it out.

I managed to buy the correct 2 mm spacing headers and crimps for the limit and eStop input on these boards if anyone is interested. I have a few spare that I can post at mininal cost.

John

williamturner1
20-05-2010, 07:55 PM
do not not even once go over 24V with nema23 steppers or
you can put out the frying tonight sign just like my bit of electronics did.


Hi. Great thread! v interesting to read. Thank you guys for sharing.


My Question: Is it possible to establish the cause of the exploding chip? and how to prevent any future damage?

........1. Back EMF caused it?
..................could it be the board has insufficient protection
..................maybe additional protection should be added - as described by irving2008 in this thread

........2. Something fries when a PSU of >24v is used?

or some other reason?

Surely too higher voltage from the PSU would have damaged the chip there and then?
Does the delay in chip exploding (ie when next turned on) hint at back emf damaging it during motor rundown or at the end of last run and that damage only apparent when you next turned the device on and it exploded?

PS. Anyone in the M25 with a CNC set up that I can come around and admire / ask a few questions about their implementation of driver board vs software and motors? Im a newbie starting out. I'll happily pay you for your time in beer!

1113562
20-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I don't really understand this as the actual Toshiba TB6560 chips have an absolute max VmA and VmB voltage rating of 40 volts and the operating rage is up to 34 V. Since it was the chip that blew and not something else on the board then I can see it was a pure over voltage problem providing your PSU was putting out less than 40V but preferrably less than 34 V. The Chinese data sheet for the whole circuit board states a voltage range of 16 to 24V for NEMA 23 spec steppers and 24 to 36V for NEMA 34 steppers. I don't really understand why there is a difference in voltage stated for NEMA 23 and 34 providing the current limit DIP switches are set so as not to exceed the particular Stepper motor current per phase for your wiring configuration (series or parallel). The power supply voltage selected just defines how quick the current limit value is reached for each pulse as it is driving an inductive load.

The when the current pulse is turned off the inductance of the winding tries to maintain current flow so generates a large reverse voltage. The protection diodes are there to clip this reverse voltage and absorb the current from the motor in discharging the winding inductance.

The larger your winding inductance the slower it will be before the current limit is reached when applying a pulse causing reduced speed and torque and also causes a bigger turn off reverse current as the inductance stores energy.

A good fast stepper will have low inductance and series resistance.

What is you stepper motor specifications Resistance, Current rating and Inductance in the wiring configuration you are using?

williamturner1
20-05-2010, 10:47 PM
The when the current pulse is turned off the inductance of the winding tries to maintain current flow so generates a large reverse voltage. The protection diodes are there to clip this reverse voltage and absorb the current from the motor in discharging the winding inductance.
So is it that Mr ChinaMan's circuit doesn't provide enough protection be it through poor design or poor component choice

Gary
20-05-2010, 10:51 PM
There is a posibility that the chips are not actually Toshiba, but cheap copies?
This is quite common in china.

1113562
20-05-2010, 11:17 PM
There is a posibility that the chips are not actually Toshiba, but cheap copies?
This is quite common in china.

The board I have seems to have the genuine Toshiba AHQ spec chips fitted. Either that or they have gone to a lot of trouble forging the TOSHIBA markings and logo.

1113562
20-05-2010, 11:34 PM
So is it that Mr ChinaMan's circuit doesn't provide enough protection be it through poor design or poor component choice

The H bridge in the chip itself is designed to discharge the inductance but the board has external diodes as well as protection. I cant see that the problem is the enternal diodes fitted to the board. You could measure to see if the board diodes on the blown chip motor output pins are damaged, If they are not then this implies these were not the reason for the failure of the chip. The diodes are FR307 which are 3A fast recovery diodes. These are rated at 1000V VR witha 200A surge and a 1.3V Vf and can withstand an average of 3 Amps continuously.

Hope this helps

Gary
21-05-2010, 08:10 AM
Printing the toshiba logo on the chip is the easy part.
Fake IC's in china have been going on for years, they even copy memory chips, and brand them so they can sell them for more.
These fake chips have even made it into branded TV's and computer equipment.


The board I have seems to have the genuine Toshiba AHQ spec chips fitted. Either that or they have gone to a lot of trouble forging the TOSHIBA markings and logo.

1113562
27-05-2010, 11:45 PM
Printing the toshiba logo on the chip is the easy part.
Fake IC's in china have been going on for years, they even copy memory chips, and brand them so they can sell them for more.
These fake chips have even made it into branded TV's and computer equipment.

Gary, I think you are getting a bit carried away here. I can't see that there is enough world market sales in specialist stepper motor driver chips like the TB6560 to make it worth there while doing a replica. Faking memory chips and consumer IC's as you identify maybe.

Anyway my Chinese driver with TB6560's works fine. The only criticism is the slightly inadequate heat sink and fan assembly but thats quite easy to upgrade and will only bother those working at full power for long periods.

cleansurf2
30-05-2010, 03:37 AM
Another Newbie,

I am looking at using this board as a hotwire cutter for RC aircraft wings (4 Axis).

1. Does this board need any other driver boards ? (i.e. Direct connect computer to printer port, stepper motors direct connect).

2. Is there an updated manual with correct pinouts as you guys have discovered ?

Much appreciate any advice.
Rick

1113562
30-05-2010, 12:50 PM
Another Newbie,

I am looking at using this board as a hotwire cutter for RC aircraft wings (4 Axis).

1. Does this board need any other driver boards ? (i.e. Direct connect computer to printer port, stepper motors direct connect).

The driver board needs no other parts other than a DC Power Supply. Mine came with a Parallel port cable to connect to the PC printer port and came with the connectors for the stepper motors which allow you to connect directly (they have screw terminals in the connectors - quite neat). The DC Power supply to drive the board and steppers needs to be of the correct voltage and current rating. I have a FARNELL B30/10 PSU which is variable 0-30V with a current output of 10 Amps max continuous ..... ideal for this board. If you have to wire in HOME/Estop and End Stop safety switches you will need to seperately purchase a small header socket and crimps to fit the tiny 2 mm pitch PCB header for these interfaces. These are available from RS - I can advise part numbers assuming it is the same as my board.


2. Is there an updated manual with correct pinouts as you guys have discovered ?


The board I have is a 3 Axis plus spindle start/stop relay but I believe there is a 4 axis version. The manual for the 4 axis may be correct for pin-out and DIP switch settings.

As you may have read, the silk screen notation on the printed circuit board is correct so if your manual that comes with the board does not line up with the PCB artwork then you should ask questions (on this forum perhaps) before you connect and power up.

John

cleansurf2
22-08-2010, 11:42 AM
I've received my TB6560 and started bench testing for a 4 axis hotwire configuration. Looking at using Mach3 + Profili2 for the G-code.
I'm using Axis X, Y, Z, A, running Mach3 v3.042.
Problem is that two of the axis are really slow. I have swapped around the motors to prove there OK. So the problem is likely Mach3 config.
Mach3 was more complex than I expected, so far can't find the configuration problem (I''m an electronics Tech).

Anyone offer any advice or a config file to help out.

thanks
Rick

Swarfing
22-08-2010, 11:49 AM
Rick

By default the manual that comes with these boards show Mach3 setup with simple pics. Anything outside this should be the screw size/ pulley size setup details and motor details. I use EMC2 so can not comment where to set that up in M3. Give that area look first?

irving2008
22-08-2010, 11:57 AM
I've received my TB6560 and started bench testing for a 4 axis hotwire configuration. Looking at using Mach3 + Profili2 for the G-code.
I'm using Axis X, Y, Z, A, running Mach3 v3.042.
Problem is that two of the axis are really slow. I have swapped around the motors to prove there OK. So the problem is likely Mach3 config.
Mach3 was more complex than I expected, so far can't find the configuration problem (I''m an electronics Tech).

Anyone offer any advice or a config file to help out.

thanks
Rick

Rick,

Define 'slow' .. do you mean they dont rotate at the same speed as the other channels with the same settings? I assume you've been through the 'motor tuning' process in the Mach3 tutorial?

cleansurf2
23-08-2010, 10:35 PM
I have included the TB6560 Mach3 configuration file that came with my 4 axis board.

Purely bench testing at the moment, board and motors only on the bench.
While in Mach3, when I tab to get the manual controls, 2 axis are at least 100 times slower than the other channels. All the Mach3 motor tuning is set the same.

My board came from a seller that does a video of your board (as waranty proof) before he sends it out. I got the steppers from him also. It showed all 4 of my stepper motors on my board operating at the same revs.
One of his other videos walks me through basic setup, which I have followed. But essentially the config file loads up and I should be good to go, at least for bench testing motor spin.

He did mention, often DB25 cable configuration is a problem. I measured it out, all good, pin 1 to pin 1 etc, is correct. He also mentioned computer bios, will try and get time tonight to have a look. But as I can get 2 channels to operate fine, even when I swap motors around, I don't believe it to be a PC bios problem.

Still a confused newbie, sorry to be a pain guys. :eek:

irving2008
23-08-2010, 10:48 PM
are you sure the DIP switches on the board are set the same for all channels, no unexpected microstepping?

On the channels that run slow, are they running cleanly, no graunching noises, or fits n spurts? What pulse width do you have set on Mach3.. it should be 5 or more...

Jonathan
23-08-2010, 10:53 PM
I've just loaded your attached profile.
All the velocity / steps / acceleration settings are the same so I can't really see what might be causing it.

Are the slow motors missing steps? Try sending a slow motor one turn forwards then one back and check it returns to the same point. It might be that the driver board is 'missing' lots of the pulses making the motors go slow.

Try going to config->motor tuning and putting the velocity setting up for the slow motors and see if it makes a difference.

Swarfing
23-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Just a thought can you check the setup of the parallel port in the bios and try ecp/ epp etc in turn. This was an issue for me on the first incarnation of this board.

Jonathan
23-08-2010, 11:12 PM
What pulse width do you have set on Mach3.. it should be 5 or more...

He's got them all set to 2.

John S
23-08-2010, 11:23 PM
5 is a good figure to start at.
Not familiar with that board but can you jumper the charge pump off, if it has one. Some computerers can hickup on charge pumps depending if they buffer the charge pump signal.

cleansurf2
24-08-2010, 09:45 AM
Awsome feedback, thanks Gents.

Where I'm at at the moment. Just set up my gear on a second PC to do a quick check.
Good results, all working at the same speed now, so proved a BIOS or hardware problem on my CNC PC.
Will check the BIOS config on this, my home internet PC, which has the TB6560 board pluged in, and compare it to my CNC PC.
Will post details of the BIOS settings to help others that may encounter this problem.


I do have some minor "graunching noises, or fits n spurts" on Z axis. Swapped over motors, motor OK, definately the channel.
I adjusted pulse width to 5 (which was maximum) in config/motor tunning/Step pulse (0-5us), nil effect, still some minor graunching.
IS THAT THE PULSE WIDTH ADJUST YOU SEGESTED?

thanks
Rick

cleansurf2
24-08-2010, 11:32 AM
I checked both my PC BIOS's.
My internet PC (that all axis's worked on). BIOS parallel port setting was [ECP].

My CNC PC was set to [SPP]. I changed it to [ECP]. Good results, well, better.
Now had axis Y and 4 motors turn for a split second and stop (when using manual jog [tab key window]).
Played around for a while, changed dip switch setting on one problem axis for speed, no effect.
Set to 35Khz, my Mach3 original setting was 25khz. nil effect.

I changed the manual jog speed settings from 100% down to 60%, SUCCESS!
Still not real sure why, I am guessing I had exceeded some speed capability somewhere.
loaded a G code (road runner), looked to be working fine (bench test motors only).

Comfortable to start working on my hotwire CNC rig now.
But I can see that the software configuration is where it's going to cost me the time. Mach3 seems bigger than Ben Her at the moment.
Still have to tune it all in once I build my hardware.
Still have to work out how to interface it with Profili2 (RC foam wings / G-code).

Thanks heaps for your input guys.
I will try and add some newbie tips as I plod along discovering issues that may seem a little basic to you guys.
Appreciate any and all advice/comments.

cheers
Rick

Jonathan
24-08-2010, 11:35 AM
Yes that's the right pulse width setting you changed.

Have you tried experimenting with the max velocity values in that same config? If the motors will only manage 60% then set the value to 60% of what it is now - but experiment you might get more!

cleansurf2
26-08-2010, 11:19 AM
I will have to probably go that way, adjusting max velocity to what ever it can handle. There is a lot of tweaking I will probably have to do between now and an operating CNC machine. Steep learning curve! At the moment having trouble getting time to put into the project, so I expect to progress slowly at this stage.

I will post significant newbie issues I discover along the way (problems/fixes).
No dought I will be back to pick your brains at some stage with some lame question.

Thanks to all.
Rick

Swarfing
26-08-2010, 01:46 PM
I used my board with 12mm lead screws on nema23 motors with EMC2. The max velocity would not go beyond 40-50 on the X and Y. The Z was a lot less. If that helps at i don't know

cleansurf2
27-08-2010, 11:04 AM
Final drive speed is a concern for a 4 axis hotwire foam cutter. It needs to be fast enough to not excessively melt the foam.
I think I'll be OK, won't know till I've built the rig. I haven't bought the threaded rod yet. I could do the math (thread count, max rpm), I think I will just cruze along and see how it turns out. It will be like a suprise, aren't suprises fun, well hopefully!

Cheers

cleansurf2
25-09-2010, 12:29 AM
Back again.
Slowly progressing with my hardware for the 4-axis hotwire cutter.
I have read that probably the best software out there for my specific application is GMFC (RC foam wings, including stacked airfoil cuts, creates airfoil G-code and direct drives the stepper control board).
Problem is, all the reading I've been doing about GMFC software, seems to indicate it only works with a specific driver board.

Has anyone got any experience or info on the possibility of using the TB6560 board with GMFC software ?

thanks
Rick

irving2008
25-09-2010, 10:26 AM
A little googling gets the answer.... the MM2001 interface that GMFC interfaces to uses standard step/dir signals for the motors, but has a heat control interface to manually and via PC set and turn on/off the heat and validate the heat is on. This needs to be replicated alongside your stepper driver. It doesnt look too hard to do, and I think there are some examples on the GMFC site. When I get a moment later this weekend I'll have a look through the circuit diagrams and see which one is easiest to replicate.

cleansurf2
27-09-2010, 11:11 AM
thankshttp://www.mycncuk.com/../images/statusicon/user-online.png for the info Irving.

There was considerable documentation on the GMFC web site for the MM2001 interface. However I didn't see anywhere if this was specifically for the stepper controller board that GMFC recomend. I was guessing that maybe it would work on the TB6560 board. I found one forum where someone with a TB6560 CNC, had used GMFC, but only to create the G-code for Mach3.

irving2008
27-09-2010, 12:31 PM
The MM2001 interface (http://gm.cnc.free.fr/CNC/MM2001_en.zip)IS the stepper controller, there is no separate board. It is a PIC-based 4 axis unit using a crude unipolar drive arrangement. It connects to the PC using the parallel interface. The MM2001 provides a 2000Hz timer interrupt signal back into the PC which the GMFC software uses to generate the PWM heater temperature control. The MM2001 PIC uses this to drive the heater wire and protect it against over heat - i.e. the PIC prevents the PC overdriving the heater wire in the event of an error... This is not essential, but useful, and could easily be replicated. If a non-MM2001 interface is to be used then some way to replicate the timer interrupt is needed and an example of this is here (http://gm.cnc.free.fr/CNC/timer_quartz.zip)

There are optional additional interfaces MMUSB and GGC which allow a USB connection, but add no new functionality.

The parallel interface uses step/dir signals on the following pins...

Channel 1 - step = 9, dir = 2
Channel 2 - step = 7, dir = 4
Channel 3 - step = 5, dir = 6
Channel 4 - step = 3, dir = 8

Other parallel port connections:

Overall Enable from PC = 17
Heating PWM signal from PC = 16
Heating PWM feedback to PC = 11
PC/Manual mode feedback to PC = 12
Timer interrupt to PC = 10
MM2001 program mode to PC = 1

Not connected 13, 14, 15
Ground 18 - 25

So if you want to drive the TB6560 board directly a small interface board will need to be created to swap the wires around as the GMFC software has no pin configuration capability as far as I can see. This board would usefully add the components for the Timer interrupt and the heater management.

How were you proposing to control the heater wire temperature?

I suggest you start a new thread for this as it could be of wider interest and is OT on this thread.

cleansurf2
30-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Irving,

I was looking at just manual hot wire on/off/temp control initially and look into the automation down the track.

Looks like my best option is to make up another DB25 cable configured to the pinouts you gave to run GMFC on my TB6560 board. Then I can swap DB25 leads to run Mach3 when I need. Thanks so much for clearing up the MM2001 interface question and providing all the pinouts, very helpful info.

thanks
Rick

Theo
14-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I bought the TB6560 in combination with 4 Nema 23 steppermotors. It works fine with Mach3. It's the intention to use it only with GMFC foamcut software. As Irving sayd its possible. Saw the same solution on the Jedicut site.

The problem is, I don't know anything about electronics :redface:. Simple connecting and making small boards are no problem as long as i know what to connect to what.

So i need the timer from the GMFC site. Thats no problem for me to make. And then i need to swap some pins from the DB25 at the computer side to the controllerboard side. Ok also no problem. Then there is the DB9 port. That one i need also??

I made a easy excelsheet with the components. Maybe someone can ad in this sheet the connections.
I would appreciate that.
Sorry

cleansurf2
16-10-2010, 04:40 AM
Theo,

I am still slowly progressing with my hardware build. I will probably start off with Mach3 and Profili2 to get a feel for the CNC process. I would love to try the GMFC combination later on, as it's airfoil stacking capabilities are something I would like to use.

As it will be a while yet before I tackle GMFC (given the additional engineering required), would love to see any new info you obtain.
If you get an update on your attached file, please post.

Rick

Swarfing
16-10-2010, 12:29 PM
I came across this site a while ago and just found it again which makes for n interesting build

http://www.cnc-hotwire.de/

Swarfing
16-10-2010, 12:35 PM
This is the plot cut software he is using

http://www.cnc-hotwire.de/ProgrammDateien/Programme.zip

cleansurf2
17-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Re: CNC-gesteuerte Heißdrahtschneidemaschine

I had looked at that hanging hotwire system before. Looks awsome for a basic limitted space occassional home use.
I downloaded the English version. May have to have a play with it down the track. For now I will concentrate on the basics of Mach3/Profili2 standard hotwire CNC machine.

If anyone has some experience with the English version, love some insight into your experience with it.

Mad Professor
21-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Over the last few weeks I have had a number of people contact me via PM's asking me questions regarding the TB6560 boards.

One that keeps being asked is the lack of performance (speed) when using microstepping.

I have so far been unable to answer this one.

I had some free time today, so I decided to test my board with microstepping, and guess what I have the same lack of performance (speed).

I scoped the input step signal from the computer, and the step signal to the TB6560 chip.

The step pulses (0-5KHz) from the pc can be seen without a problem.

But there is something strange with the step pulses from the opti to the TB6560.

I was expecting to see a 0-5v square wave, or at least something close to it.

But it's more a 0-5v pulse then ramps back to ground.

The faster the step pulse the more the ground moves away, and at around 4.8KHz the ground is so high that the TB6560 can no longer see the step pulses.

http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/TB6560%20Step%20@%20300Hz.jpg

http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/TB6560%20Step%20@%204.1KHz.jpg

http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/TB6560%20Step%20@%205KHz.jpg

Blue scope trace is the input to the board, and the red scope trace is the step input at the TB6560 Chip.

Following the traces on the PCB this is what I have come up with for the Schematic.
http://www.mad-professor.co.uk/Misc/TB6560%20Step%20Schematic.jpg

Looking at the datasheet for the TB6560 says that it is good for upto 15Khz.

Theo
21-10-2010, 09:49 PM
This link (http://www.civade.com/post/2010/10/04/Faut-il-jeter-votre-controleur-pas-%C3%A0-pas-chinois-pour-CNC-%C3%A0-base-de-TB6560-achet%C3%A9-%C3%A0-50$-sur-Ebay-TB3-TB4) was posted in a other forum. Maybe its a solution??
Use Google translate

masterploxis
28-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Hello,

after i did not get response from cnczone i´ll try my first port here:

first problem first post:

I got the board from ebay (seller prettyworthshop)....

I connected the board to power supply with was included. The boards gets 24V - i measured that with a meter.

I connected the board to computer (LPT is set to ECP). I set all the MACH 3 parameters according to the manual (Signal in, Signal out, Motor....)

On the board itself we have 3 LEDS for which show when signal is available for axis movment. If i press cursor in MACH the middle LED (Y) glows only a bit. Above the 3 LEDS there are two LEDS and the right one is on all the time when i connect the parallel cable with the board. When is disconnect, the LED goes out.

The fan is not turning. Motor is connected but not moving...

I don´t know whats the problem. Can somebody help me ?

I hope to get this first problem soved with your help.

By the way - i built the MDF CNC Machine from buidyourcncDOTcom. I want to use tha machine for milling panels for my DIY 737-800 Homecockpit...

Cheers from Wuerzburg Germany

Andy

Swarfing
28-10-2010, 10:26 PM
Andy

It sounds a bit worrying that the fan is not working and would suggest that is sorted first as these boards require sufficient cooling. The LED's to blink and be on is common as some of the pins are live on the port (note do not plug in or out the cable when switched on). I have the older version of this type of board and it does the same thing whilst booting the PC. How many axis does your board support?

masterploxis
28-10-2010, 11:55 PM
Hello,

- so input voltage of 24 V is ok ?
- should the fan start o turn in the moment the board is connected to power supply ?
- i have 3 axis board...

Thanks for any input...

Regards
Andy

Swarfing
29-10-2010, 12:51 AM
Yes the fan should start up straight away so check the 12v supply and wires to the fan. The recommendation of many is to not go beyond 24v so that is fine. Can you supply the details of your steppers and how you have them wired as this will help in diagnosis. List the connections you have made and any config settings in Mach3 would help also. I am afraid i use EMC2 so can not run through the config of Mach3 with you but i am sure somebody else here can validate that for you

masterploxis
30-10-2010, 04:13 PM
Hello,

ok, thanks Y/Z Axis working. X not working. I figured out that i have permanent -0.22V out of PIN 1 (X-step). While for Y and Z i have 0 V and -0,02V when axis is moved. So does anybody knows why i have these -0.22V permanent output ? The DIR PIN for X axis is working - so only the PIN 1 is the problem. I checked in mach, an no other functions are related to PIN 1.

Thanks for any input - step by step t will work someday..

Regards from Germany
Andy

Swarfing
30-10-2010, 06:48 PM
Check this site and confirm you are all wired up the same way with your steppers http://www.dhgate.com/3-axis-tb6560-cnc-stepper-motor-driver-board/p-ff8080812b61ec9b012b679ce3532c9a.html post the configuration you have in Mach3.

masterploxis
31-10-2010, 12:18 AM
Hi,
the connection of the stepper motors is ok. Attached you´ll find screenshots from my mach 3 config which should be as suggested. I think the problem comes from PIN 1 with the permanent voltage of -0,22 V.

32783277

Swarfing
31-10-2010, 11:02 AM
Ok i checked you details against the manual located here www.lz4gv.com/CNC_files/3Axis_Driver_txt.pdf and it checks out correct so if all the wires are properly secured then it must be a problem on the board. I will assume you are using nema23 motors and the voltages for that motor are correct? they are wired for parallel operation?

Have you tried swapping the motors around to eliminate they are he problem? Check the bios on your pc and swap between ecp and epp if you can, some bios have these together or separate. If all this is ok the power up and switch on (not running any operation and check for voltage on the output pins of the board to the motors (A+). Which ever one is not working trace back to before the driver chip to the input pin and see if it is getting a supply. If not then the chance are it will just be one of the opto isolator IC's. You can confirm this by swapping it for one of the others. If they are ok then it will be one of the driver chips. I hope this gets you going in the right direction to sort it.

Paul

masterploxis
31-10-2010, 11:54 AM
Hi Paul,

thanks for the detailed answer. Can you do me a favour and check on your PIN 1 (X-Axis Step) the voltage you have ? I have permanent 0,22V. For Y Axis and Z Axis i have step Pin voltage of 0 V, when i move axis in MACH3, voltage changes to -0,02 V. So i asked myself if PIN 1 also should have 0 V when axis it not moved. Or is it normal that PIN 1 has permant voltage of 0,22V ?



Regards
Andy

Swarfing
31-10-2010, 06:06 PM
Andy

My board is different than yous as it uses the earlier TA chips, the set up is different but to answer the question i do not get voltage on that pin. A silly question though? you are using the original cable that come with it? as it is not the same as a printer cable.

gorbo
12-11-2010, 09:51 PM
Hello,

ok, thanks Y/Z Axis working. X not working. I figured out that i have permanent -0.22V out of PIN 1 (X-step). While for Y and Z i have 0 V and -0,02V when axis is moved. So does anybody knows why i have these -0.22V permanent output ? The DIR PIN for X axis is working - so only the PIN 1 is the problem. I checked in mach, an no other functions are related to PIN 1.

Thanks for any input - step by step t will work someday..

Regards from Germany
Andy

Did you get your X working as I have the same problem? also anyone notice the pin outs on the board for the steppers are different to the instruction sheet which is right?

masterploxis
13-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Hi,

yes now everything is working. I took a different computer and voila ! First i did use a Fujitsu Siemends Laptop - X Axis not working, now i use IBM Thinkpad - and everything is nearly fine. For Christmas holiday i want to get a cheap second hand desktop pc to get the full 5 V out of the parallel port.

Anyway - my x-axis is still sometimes losing steps. I don´t know if this is a general problem with this chinese board or if there´s a mechanical problem. But each day my machine gets better...

Good luck
Andy

gorbo
14-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks for that MP I tried another PC with a built in LPT and It works, I previously used a PCI-E card which , was not giving a full output on X.
One question I still have how do you wire up the Spindle relay? I have a 230vac Spindle............... again the instructions are vague

masterploxis
16-11-2010, 08:03 PM
Hi Garbo,

so far i didn´t connect the spindle relay. I also have a 230v spindle - first i want to get my steppers running without losing steps. Then i will approach the spindle.

Cheers
Andy

gorbo
16-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Same here I find its not a problem switching it on by hand, I have not experienced losing steps yet but I dare say I will

jregholdsworth
02-12-2010, 11:09 PM
Like you I bought one of these boards to go with my bipolar stepper motors...and I wanted to build a foam cutter...I bought an Arduino 1280 mega to perform the tricks GMFC wants and wrote some software to do it...(about £30 of bits from ebay). I then made a 25 way to 25 way crossover cable to switch the pins round so that GMFC/Jedicut could drive the steppers and intercepted those necessary to provide heat signals etc required by GMFC/Jedicut..

Glad to provide details if you'd like them..the Arduino has and LCD output to show manual heat state etc.and the hot wire power driver is a steal from the GMFC design (you'll need to make this up on some vero board). The Arduino board also provides a tone output as the GMFC timer input.

Here is the pin mapping (sorry the site doesn't seem to allow me to format this properly, the first line is a heade)r:

25 male d type to pc pin number Signal name To Arduino pin number To 25 way d type to stepper board pin number
5 X step 16
2 X dir 1
4 Y step 14
7 Y dir 7
3 Z step 3
6 Z dir 6
9 Astep 9
8 A dir 8
17 enable 4,17,5
18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25 GND 18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25
10 Timer 2
11 Heat PWM out 3
12 Auto/Manual 11
16 Heating PWM in from PC 12




Here's the Arduino code which is an enhancement of UFO_man's idea in the DIYDRONES site:


#include <LCD4Bit_mod.h>
// Usage: foam wire cutter.
// Pulse width modulation of a cutting wire with PWM output
// Heat controlled by analog input (e.g. pot) and GMFC type PC software
// Control the heat precisely with turning the pot
// Used in this case with a 48v psu and rene wire.other options are readily possible
// The lPin is the pin that is connected to the FET transistor controlling hot wire temeperature
// used with pwm in manual mode from the arduino board and using the pc waveform in auto mode for GMFC etc compatibility
// JH mods: to make it GMFC/ Jedicut compatible and hopefully Tjzoide as well
// A Chinese 4 axis stepper driver is being used instead of mm2001 as per GMFC.
// The motor on /off pin is mapped straight through to the stepper board as are the dir and step signals for each channel
// using back to back 25 way din connectors and suitable wiring
// Author: "UFO_MAN" + JH
// Hardware: Arduino

int lPin = 3; // FET transistor (via driver) connected to digital pin 9
int analogPin = 7; // potentiometer connected to analog pin 3 (the pot meter need a voltage on the hot side and the cold side need to be connected to ground. a 5K pot will work fine.
int val = 0;
int toneoutpin = 2; //tone output for GMFC set to 4 KHZ
int automanual = 11; //input swich to selct between manual and auto
int pc_wvfrm = 12; //pwm input for heat setting from pc
int ledpin = 13;
char buf5[10]; //buffer for string conversion
LCD4Bit_mod lcd = LCD4Bit_mod(2);

void setup(){
pinMode(lPin, OUTPUT); // sets the pin as output
pinMode(toneoutpin,OUTPUT);
pinMode(automanual, INPUT); //switch for auto manual selection
pinMode(pc_wvfrm, INPUT); // pwm waveform from pc in auto mode
tone (toneoutpin, 4000); //set tone output for gmfc compaitbility at 4Khz
lcd.init();
lcd.clear();
lcd.printIn("JH HWC ver 1.0");
delay(2000);
}

void loop(){

lcd.clear ();
lcd.printIn("manual: heat =");
while(digitalRead(automanual)== HIGH){
val = analogRead(analogPin); // read the input pin
analogWrite(lPin, val / 4);
itoa(val/10.3, buf5, 10);
if ((val/10.3) <10)lcd.printIn(" ");
lcd.cursorTo(2,0);lcd.printIn(" ");
lcd.printIn(buf5);
lcd.printIn("% ");
}


while (digitalRead(automanual)== LOW) { //the switch is in the auto position
lcd.clear ();
lcd.printIn("auto: set by PC"); //write a message on the screen once
while (pc_wvfrm == HIGH){
} //wait for the pc wfrm to go low..this is safety in case the pc is disconnected...otherwise the hot wire could go to 100% and burn out
while (digitalRead(automanual) == LOW){
digitalWrite(3, digitalRead( pc_wvfrm));//copy input to output as quick as you can while switch is in auto position.

}
}
}

Hope this helps,and doesn't confuse..send me a mail for more details or a chat

hermann
12-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Hi all,

I recently got this TB6560 board from eBay as well. Are there any schematics of this board available?

Greetings,

Hermann

jregholdsworth
12-12-2010, 05:01 PM
not that I've seen, just the "manual" that came with the board...

ccmarco
22-12-2010, 01:39 AM
35033502

Maybe someone could be interested about the way i modified ground path around TB6560s in my 3 axis board, blue PCB.

Here is the link to italian forum where i published same photos : http://www.cncitalia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26754&start=10

I also changed Fosc capacitor (pin 7 to ground) from 1nF to 100pF and, in conjuntion to step lines optocouplers bypass, now the board works flawlessy with Fstep of 50Khz.

Yes, i know, datasheet reports 15Khz max ...

But i don't mind about that.

Marco.

irving2008
22-12-2010, 08:55 AM
Interesting Marco... did I understand you bypassed the optocouplers? That would increase the step rates, the optocouplers they use are fairly low-spec. Personally I would have looked at replacing them with higher spec devices and retained the isolation.

ccmarco
22-12-2010, 11:05 PM
Hi Irving,

the power section of these cards is not galvanically insulated from parallel port connection, both share same ground.

Here, optocoupling gives only a partial safety gain, because a lot of current could flow through PC ground.

So we have a "half way" protection, capable only to break direct reflow of high voltage supply on parallel port lines.

Placing high speed optocouplers, like 6N137, is not simple because they do not have same pinout.

So i simply bypassed step lines optocouplers with 270 ohms res., in future i will place zener diodes (or transzorbs) on HC14 side and i will change resistors with higher value ones, to eliminate the high voltage reflow risk.

I have to say that the full modded board behaves good, but the fix was a sort of personal challenge :smile:

Marco.

geekinesis
28-01-2011, 11:14 AM
Hi
I have the 3.5 amp version of the board. The limit resistors are .15 ohm on mine. If I wanted to run .4 amp motors, what should I change the resistors to to.

I have .33 ohm resistors so was hoping to use them, but my maths isnt good with amp v etc

also is it ok to just change the resistors? As I understand the 2.5a boards are the same but with different resistors?

dandumit
28-01-2011, 11:31 AM
From datasheet :
Iout(A)=0.5V/RNF(Ω)

Result : I out = 0.5V/0.15 Ohm = 3.33(3)

From datasheet tb6560 has the maximum of peak at 3.5 A.

geekinesis
28-01-2011, 11:45 AM
ah great, thats what I was looking for.

So .33 ohm gives me 1.51, perfect

Also I have a 1.2A 3.8v stepper. Is there any harm in running it at 1.51A?

dandumit
28-01-2011, 12:37 PM
always have a look on datasheet of component.
also please take note that I have seen on many Chinese boards that the dip switches settings are described wrong.

gorbo
25-02-2011, 04:20 PM
I am using one of these boards with no problem what's so ever, mind i do have a 120mm blasting cold air on it, I have it running for 6 hours non stop, I do find the steppers get very hot is this normal?

gorbo
25-02-2011, 04:20 PM
I am using one of these boards with no problem what's so ever, mind i do have a 120mm fan blasting cold air on it, I have had it running for 6 hours non stop, I do find the steppers get very hot, is this normal?

Jonathan
26-02-2011, 12:15 AM
I am using one of these boards with no problem what's so ever, mind i do have a 120mm fan blasting cold air on it, I have had it running for 6 hours non stop, I do find the steppers get very hot, is this normal?

Depends how hot is very hot! 80°C on the motor surface is OK. If it's too hot then turn the current down a little. You won't need to turn it down much since power is proportional to current squared....

Gunny
06-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Thought this was the most appropriate thread to put my question in.
I bought this board (3-axis one) after my previous Xylotex one blew up.
Here was me thinking it would just be a straight swap... and I'd be away!

Anyway, connected it all up, and when I try and jog the machine in Mach3 nothing happens, but I can hear the motors idling.
The board is rated upto 36v. Have tested the power going into the board at 27V so that shouldn't be a problem.
The X/Y/Z axis leds sometimes come on but if they do, they always go off when I load up Mach3.

The settings and pinouts all seem to be fine in Mach3 - I have checked them time and time again.
Without Mach3 open, there is no voltage going to any of the motors. Once I open it, there is ~1.7V/0.8A of power going to the A+/A- phase of each motor. And no power going to the B+/B- phase.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but I assume the output voltage of the board to the motors should change when running a CNC program or jogging the machine? This does not happen. It stays idle.

So I'm mega confused and not sure whether its Mach3, the board or the motors which are the problem.
If anybody has any suggestions I'd be greatful!

gorbo
07-07-2011, 09:13 AM
With my limited experience with these boards heres some ideas:
You are using LPT1 port on your PC is it a desktop PC? these boards wont run with a low power output on the LPT ie; laptops or USB converters, I know i have tried
You have the right driver on the software?

Good luck these are great boards..............when you get them running

AlanDibley
04-12-2011, 12:20 PM
Thought this was the most appropriate thread to put my question in.
I bought this board (3-axis one) after my previous Xylotex one blew up.
Here was me thinking it would just be a straight swap... and I'd be away!

Anyway, connected it all up, and when I try and jog the machine in Mach3 nothing happens, but I can hear the motors idling.
The board is rated upto 36v. Have tested the power going into the board at 27V so that shouldn't be a problem.
The X/Y/Z axis leds sometimes come on but if they do, they always go off when I load up Mach3.

The settings and pinouts all seem to be fine in Mach3 - I have checked them time and time again.
Without Mach3 open, there is no voltage going to any of the motors. Once I open it, there is ~1.7V/0.8A of power going to the A+/A- phase of each motor. And no power going to the B+/B- phase.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but I assume the output voltage of the board to the motors should change when running a CNC program or jogging the machine? This does not happen. It stays idle.

So I'm mega confused and not sure whether its Mach3, the board or the motors which are the problem.
If anybody has any suggestions I'd be greatful!

Is this resolved yet? It is a long time since it was posted, but.....

Another likely reason is the printer port having the wrong address. There are 3 possible addresses for the parallel printer port. Wrong address = no go.

Regards from Alan D.

crossleymarko
22-03-2012, 11:20 AM
i know this is an old post, but ive just come accross it. ive been on cnczone and asked about a full kit for my first build.
i have been told.

Run far and fast from that controller. Search this site for TB6560 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=293&type=2&ext=251018294738&item=251018294738) and you'll have all the info you need. Almost 500 posts in this thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fixed_my_chinese.html)alone.

so what do you think...

hope to get much info on ere. im in the uk myself.
:confused:

Mad Professor
22-03-2012, 06:13 PM
My advice after having one of them boards is to stay clear, and save the money and get some real drivers something like the 542 or 752.

ptjw7uk
22-03-2012, 06:25 PM
+1 for the separate drivers, all in one means one down put in bin!!
Peter

crossleymarko
22-03-2012, 09:25 PM
+1 for the separate drivers, all in one means one down put in bin!!
Peter


so hows this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Kit-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-Cables-3-Axis-M542-Stepper-Driver-Controller-/180835636136?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2a1aa4d3a8#ht_11593wt_995

seems abit expensive.. no power supply and no motors... is there a cheaper option...

sorry. im a begginer.lol

Mad Professor
22-03-2012, 09:36 PM
Have you had a look at the Items For Sale (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/188-Items-For-Sale) section of the forum, to see if anyone here is selling any drivers, motors, or power supplies?

Jonathan
22-03-2012, 09:38 PM
+2 for the separate drivers.


Run far and fast from that controller. Search this site for TB6560 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=293&type=2&ext=251018294738&item=251018294738) and you'll have all the info you need. Almost 500 posts in this thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fixed_my_chinese.html)alone.

By all means read 500 posts, hopefully it will persuade you not to waste time and money buying one of those drivers when you'll almost certainly want to change it to something better later on.


seems abit expensive.. no power supply and no motors... is there a cheaper option...

That's not a bad price, keep looking on eBay as you'll probably find some a bit cheaper. But before we go too far with this - how big is the machine you're intending to build and what well you be cutting predominantly?

crossleymarko
22-03-2012, 09:47 PM
hi thanks all,
should i start another thread. feel like im hijacking.
machine will be a 6x2 or 4x4 not sure yet. its gonna be a work in progress. should be getting the workshop built in the summer. so doing the research etc now..

and its mainly gonna cut mdf... or perspex

on7mi
18-05-2012, 11:41 AM
Hi to everybody,
I am using two off these boards on my cnc machines for two years and have no problems whit these,but Iam a hobbyist no a pro.
Thes boards are very cheap instead they are sold for 140 Euros in Germay.I bought them in China for minus of 50 Euros.
At this price you can budget a reserve one in case off!

See you
Mike

Tenson
10-06-2012, 11:29 PM
I've got one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-card-for-CNC-Router-Mill-/260948657415?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item3cc1c08507#ht_2621wt_983)boards running my CNC3040.

I'm curious because it is running on 24V and gets nothing like hot, but it sounds like most here find they get rather warm. I think I could even run mine without the fan!

It also doesn't go very fast - I can get a reliable 1200mm/min from it. I did run it at 1900mm/min but found it occasionally skipped steps.

Is this normal? Have I got something set-up wrong?

The stepper motor shows about 2 Ohms across each of the connections to the board. I don't know if this means it is in parallel or series as the connections at the motor end are covered by heat-shrink.

The big resistors near the output (I assume current sense) are 0.4 Ohms.

Measuring across one of these I get 200mV on idle and 280mV at full speed. That is about 0.7A, so does this means the motor is drawing 1.4A because it is each phase? You can see the measurements below.

This is at idle. The time base is 50us/Div
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/tenson_uk/idle.jpg

This is at full speed, but please note the time base is now 10ms/Div
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/tenson_uk/FullSpeed.jpg

Jonathan
11-06-2012, 02:38 PM
On the 'idle' graph I make it 12% duty cycle. So since current is 0.5A peak, that makes it:
0.5*0.12=60mA average
0.5*0.12^0.5=173mA RMS.

Can't really find anything useful from the other graph - it just shows how at that speed the current is limited by the inductance of the motor. I guess we could calculate the motor inductance ... T=2.07ms, change in current is 700mA, so dI/dt=700/2.07=1.449A/s (linear approximation).. applied voltage is 24V minus a bit for losses so call it 23V, so the inductance L=24/1.449=15.9mH (roughly, oversimplifying a bit there). That's either a pathetic motor or I've done something wrong! Unless it's wired in bipolar series, that would be reasonable since the same motor in bipolar parallel would be about 3mH which is not bad.

Either way these numbers seem a bit fishy.. please could you link to the motors you are using (datasheet?) and confirm that the resistor you're measuring across is definately 0.4ohms, not two 0.4 ohm resistors in parallel or something like that.

The simple answer is just increase the current and so long as the motors don't get too hot, i.e. above 80°C on the case, it's fine.

Tenson
11-06-2012, 03:20 PM
Hi,

The motors don't get hot at all, and neither does the driver board.

I don't know what motors they are, they are no doubt pathetic as they come with the CNC3040 and are small.

I stuck my LCR meter across one of the connection to the board. It tells me 1.93mH at 15KHz and gives 1.4R DC resistance.

I stripped back the wires at the motor end. There are actually 6 wires coming out, 2 of which are not connected at all, and the other 4 go to the board, so it seems I don't have any choice about series or parallel.

The resistors seem to be one per phase and are 0.25R. I thought it was 0.4R because the meter probes have a small series resistance.

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/tenson_uk/DSC_0054.jpg

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/tenson_uk/DSC_0055.jpg

Oh and the dip switches are set like this:

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt169/tenson_uk/DSC_0056.jpg

russell
13-06-2012, 10:37 PM
The 0.25 ohm resistors should give you 2 A maximum. Your DIP switches are set for 75% current so that gives 1.5 A - not far from your measured 1.4.

You should be able to identify your motor from this data sheet:

6131

Tenson
14-06-2012, 02:16 PM
I doesn't seem to be any of those! Body length is 53mm, phase resistance is 1.4R and phase inductance is 1.9mH.

I found that when I set the current limit switch to 100% it ran worse.

I could increase the voltage to the board. The motors nor board run hot. Is it safe to do so, and should I make that mod listed earlier - http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/1373-eBay-TB6560-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Boards?p=19305&viewfull=1#post19305

russell
14-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Did you measure the body length including the boss? If so it should be 51 mm and is probably a 57BYGH51-602A and produces 100 oz.in (about 0.7 N.m) at 2 A. Your resistance and inductance figure aren't a mile off considering the quoted tolerances.

I know the voltage rating is higher than 24 V but, considering the reliability (or lack of it) of these boards I would be nervous of doing so. Some of the mods suggested on various sites are decidedly dodgy!

Russell.

Tenson
14-06-2012, 11:41 PM
Did you measure the body length including the boss?

Russell.

Nope, excluding like the diagram.

russell
15-06-2012, 04:12 PM
Just measured my motors which are the 76 mm type and they measure 77.6mm so I still think you have the 57BYGH51-602A type.

Your waveforms look strange to me. The voltage across the current sense resistors should go between 0.5 V and - 0.5 V at 100% torque or 0.375 V at your 75% setting. Is the earth on your oscilloscope properly isolated from the board? If I remember rightly the isolators on these boards only isolate the signal lines not the earth. Are all three outputs the same?

Russell.

russell
16-06-2012, 10:48 AM
Doh - I think I must have had a senior moment last night! I was assuming that the current sense resistors were in series with the motor but of course they are the other side of the output bridge so the current is unidirectional there thus it should be going from 0 to 0.375 V.

Still the waveforms don't look right to me. I can't check on my board as I no longer have access to an oscilloscope but according to the data sheet the motor current waveforms should look like this:
6135
The waveform across the current sense resistors will of course be rectified.

Hope that helps.

Russell.

boldford
10-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Anyone trouble-shooting this module might find this and the hyperlinks shown there of some utility. http://www.drkfs.net/REVERSESTEPPER.htm

Lovi
15-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Hi everyone!
I just made a video of the Chinese fake TBA 6560 IC's.
If your order came from china, better to check them, before powering on.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtEYAsMaiFc

russell
17-12-2012, 04:13 PM
I don't know where you found this information but according to the Toshiba data sheet pin 10 is power ground and pin 6 is signal ground so is not necessarily low impedance.

Pins 1, 17 22 are not ground as you suggest but are torque setting input, initial state sensing output, and excitation mode setting input, respectively.

Russell;

Lovi
24-12-2012, 08:03 PM
You should watch the video carefully. We are talking about two different IC's in the same case.
Pins 1, 17 and 22 aren't groun in the real TB6560 but in the fake one. How could it be possible?
The right one marked as a 6560 ic, but it isn't, it is a 8435.



I don't know where you found this information but according to the Toshiba data sheet pin 10 is power ground and pin 6 is signal ground so is not necessarily low impedance.

Pins 1, 17 22 are not ground as you suggest but are torque setting input, initial state sensing output, and excitation mode setting input, respectively.

Russell;

russell
28-12-2012, 02:54 PM
Ah, so what you are now saying is not that it is a fake IC but that it is an incorrectly marked one. Not the same thing.

Russell.

Lovi
29-12-2012, 11:26 PM
Do you really think that such a big and responsible company like Toshiba would sell "incorrectly marked ICs"?
Why can't we find any incorrectly marked IC at the stores, buy 15 of 20 from the ebay? It's a simple fraud.
This products should be destroyed in the company. So you think Toshiba made a mistake with tonns of their ICs?

rrossetti
25-01-2016, 12:12 AM
try www.diycnc.co.uk

system45 newer driver boards so no more squeeling