PDA

View Full Version : Does this quote seem reasonable?



HankMcSpank
24-02-2010, 11:57 AM
I asked for 5mm dia mild steel rod (1018) to cut into various (short) length pieces & then nickel plated.

I've just received this quote (UK company)...

WE CAN OFFER CUT TO LENGTH WITH A MINIMUM CHAMFER AT BOTH ENDS SIZE 5mm
+0.00, -0.05
MOQ = 100
M5 X 4 = £40.00/100 NET
M5 X 6 = £40.00/100 NET
M5 X 8 = £40.00/100 NET

Now 40p+VAT for one four millimetre piece of 5mm dia steel rod seems to me a tad excessive - but then again, what do I know!

They weren't able to nickel plate.

Short of buying a turret lathe & winching it into my loft (just kidding - way too heavy!)....perhaps I should source what I need from the Far East - anyone done such a thing? (screws, bespoke bits & bobs etc)

audioandy
24-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Rob
Would some of this do you then use your lathe to cut to size?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-new-300mm-NICKEL-PLATED-THREADED-ROD-+-10-HEX-NUTS_W0QQitemZ310182165312QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=120821f11220a0aad4751bc5fea68d51

Andy

HankMcSpank
24-02-2010, 01:05 PM
Hi Andy,

How are you?

thanks for taking time out to offer up some input!

A bit more meat on the bone - these little pieces of metal are for 'pole' pieces on a guitar sustainer. Essentially the six metal upright bits similar to this piccie...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Kits/Parts_Kit_for_Strat_Pickup.html?tab=Pictures#detai ls

so whay can't I just use those?

Well, because that's a pickup, whereas with a sustainer they need to be *much* shorter - I'm pretty sure nothing exists ready made in the size I need, which means I have to either make some (time intensive!) or have some made.

The threaded rod you linked to - well, firstly I really need unthreaded steel rod, but even if I was using threaded rod, it would need cutting up - the problem then, is that the 'cut' ends wouln't be nickel plated...& it's the very end bits that will be open to the elements so to speak (I need the nickel plating for both aesthetics & to stop corrosion).

So the hunt goes on.....but tks anyway!

Robin Hewitt
24-02-2010, 01:28 PM
Have you tried googling for 'steel dowel pins'?

HankMcSpank
24-02-2010, 01:48 PM
Have you tried googling for 'steel dowel pins'?

Actually I hadn't and initial results are good! (& as ever, having the right phrase works wonders)...

I do recall a while ago searching for shelf support dowels - but it's tricky to find them just plain (most have a middle piece to set the depth).

Stainless is a no no (not that great magnetic properties) & a lot of links are coming up with that...but worth pursuing this new line of thought!

Just found this link...

http://www.rkengineeringco.com/Cylindrical%20(Dowel)%20Pin.htm ...with this extract....

"Our range of manufacturing is 2 mm to 25 mm in diameter and 5 mm to 150 mm in length" - so close (my shortest needs to be 4mm length), but hey it's a start.



What a great site this is.

Edit: Actually, Robin your post prompted me to visit an old line of enquiry...something like this might get me up and running relatively cheaply (ie I only need low run until I've established if there's even a demand)...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/40-Nickel-Plated-Steel-5mm-Shelf-Studs-Stop-P-P-Inc_W0QQitemZ310117492841QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_DIY _Material_Cabinets_Cupboards_MJ?hash=item483471686 9

if I cut them to length, then that works out at 10p each (I'm not worried about one end being unplated - that'll be in the bowels of the device itself!).

I have an ER32 collet chuck for my mini lathe, which ought to make this a little bit quicker.

Has anyone any tips on a way of parting off 5mm steel rod? (I've had bad experiences parting off to date!). Is there a better dedicated tool I could use for repeatablility (my present parting off tool has somthing like a 1.5mm blade - is a thinner one available?)

Robin Hewitt
24-02-2010, 02:40 PM
Hi Hank

Let's try one more, see if I'm on a roll :whistling:

Your local electro plater will be in Yellow Pages and they usually charge by the Kilo.

bestest

Robin

HankMcSpank
24-02-2010, 02:50 PM
The problem here is alas, I live in London - all we have is estate agents, coffee shops & Polish delicatessens down here! lol

I'll see if I can find a yellow pages though ("Do you have a copy of Fly Fishing by JR Hartley")

bogstandard
24-02-2010, 06:31 PM
I think the quote you had for your opening post is very reasonable.

Material costs mean very little nowadays to a machine shop for a job like this, but you chaps always seem to quote it.

The costs for any small, and 100 off is small, jobs is the time taken to set up plus use of the machine, then add on the cost of the machinists time. Around here £65 to £80 per hour, including setup time, is normal.

I will state that you would be very hard pressed to part off 100 pieces in an hour, plus most probably mutiple tool breakages as well, if you are not too proficient at parting off.

I would be unwilling to quote less than that price, even though I have 40 years machining experience, and can part off with the best of them. Any less than that, I would actually be doing the job as a loss leader, another name for a 'thank you' job.

Bogs

BillTodd
24-02-2010, 07:05 PM
if I cut them to length, then that works out at 10p each (I'm not worried about one end being unplated - that'll be in the bowels of the device itself!).40 sobs is going to sound very cheap after you've saw and de-burred a hundred of those :)

[edit] Oh hang on - it's Hank, he'll only want two ;)

What about bearing rollers?

HankMcSpank
24-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Hey...before I get a bad name, that's why I asked if it was reasonable!

My gut reaction was that it seemed a little high (incidentally, I never asked for just 100pcs...that's what they quoted)

If they came chamfered (their quote was for chamfered) *and* nickel plated (alas their quote wasn't), I'd have likely just gone with it.

Probably better to get a quote for a larger quantity, which ought to bring the price down ...but from somewhere that can plate too.

I guess I could always buy these & cut 'em in two ... nicely chromed too (& at 50p each retail price!)

While my search continues, I'll grapple with honing my 'parting off' skills! (& look at DIY Nickel plating - not that expensive or onerous http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260544245335&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT )

Re roller bearing - another top tip brought to you by 'CNCUK Enterprising membersİ' :smile: ...off to Google!

BillTodd
24-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Just a thought: you might be able to shear them cleanly enough to finish in a tumbler.

Robin Hewitt
24-02-2010, 08:30 PM
DIY Nickel plating - not that expensive or onerous

I got my nickel kit from GLR. Were you planning to hang them individually or simply plate then in to one solid lump? IMHO a commercial plater is a much better bet and not expensive, it's a cut throat business.

audioandy
24-02-2010, 09:16 PM
Hi Rob

I'm fine thanks no time for playing at the moment tho :sad:

Sorry for the confusion, with you calling it M5 I just assumed M5 thread!

Hope you get sorted soon.

Regards

Andy

ptjw7uk
25-02-2010, 09:16 AM
As for the thinner cut off blade you could use the old model engineer trick and use a hss hack saw blade as you only need to part off 5mm not much blade sticking out.
I have done it myself but you have to get it just right with minimum over hang but it does work.
You could also look up electroless nickel plating it may do for what you want.

peter

NB70
25-02-2010, 09:26 AM
These have a nice rounded end on them that would look good as a pickup or sustainer pole-piece:
http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_427&products_id=1420
You would have to cut them in half to get them to the required length, but the cut end could go underneath the pickup where no-one would see it,
They are precision ground so they should be a consistent size,
Nathan

HankMcSpank
25-02-2010, 11:11 AM
And the winner is .......NB70 - tks matey.....I've seen that site before -....great value stuff on there (just got to work out what else I'll never use to bump my order up!)

5mm x 19.8mm @45p for 10 pcs - both ends useable so after parting off to the right size that's in essence that 39p for 20! (which equate to about 2p per pole pice - far more digestable vs 40p per pol & might even mean I can make some early prototypes for a decent price!).


Peter - a wonderful idea about using a hacksaw blade...I'll see what google turn ups...but how are they normally held?
Many thanks to all who chimed in here - some great ideas & comments - you're a great big font of helpful engineering knowledge & willing to help 'wet behind the ears' types like me!

Robin Hewitt
25-02-2010, 11:20 AM
5mm x 19.8mm @45p for 10 pcs - both ends useable so after parting off to the right size that's in essence that 39p for 20!

You are going to cut through a roller bearing pin? :eek:

You don't think it might be as hard as the top of God's head? :whistling:

BillTodd
25-02-2010, 11:27 AM
You don't think it might be as hard as the top of God's head? :whistling:
LOL


Actually, they seem pretty cheap for bearing rollers so they may not be hardened. But, if they are Hank, the only way you'll cut them is with a friction saw

irving2008
25-02-2010, 11:41 AM
Not to pour more water on the fire, but you need to ask what material they are made of... hardened roller pins are likely to have a very high carbon content and may not magnetically work as well as you'd like. It might be worth asking if they can provide a sample pack before you embark on a large order to meet the £10 min order value...

Robin Hewitt
25-02-2010, 11:59 AM
If you are going to cut them with a parting off tool why not just cut them from ordinary steel stock?

If you get the height and tip angle right it will part the piece off, pip and burr free, then go on to trim the pip off the next one.

Position the tail stock so you can advance the stock just so, but put a piece of metal in between when advancing so the stock doesn't touch the centre when parting. The parting off tool might not like that because that part can't fall without twisting.

HankMcSpank
25-02-2010, 12:14 PM
Well, at 39p per pack, the litmus test is to order some up & test - they have a minimum £10 order but therere site is a veritable cavern of all things shiny to me so that won';t be a problem!

The carbon content is of concern - best way is rather than debate it (I reckon at 39p they'll not be that hardened) ...just to order some up.

re cutting them - not intimidated at all - I've cut Alnico before (the hardest substance in the universe - just kidding ok!) & survived - I made up a little dremel holder for my tool post & used that to slice into it with the dremel cutting discs....it worked well. But hey, if they are hardened, yeah...then I may just stick with 5mm bog standard mild steel & a nickel plating kit.

robin, you asked how I'd holding the pieces while plating - I was thinking about lobbing the small pole pieces in a copper mesh bag - plausible?

A corrosion resistant finish is important - but maybe I'm getting a little over worked up about it - for example I parted off some basic 5mm bright steel pole pieces about 6 months ago - some of these have laid in my cold, damp loft for 6 months - no rust.

Robin Hewitt
25-02-2010, 12:26 PM
robin, you asked how I'd holding the pieces while plating - I was thinking about lobbing the small pole pieces in a copper mesh bag - plausible?

You would plate the copper as well and where metal touches metal they will try and glue together probably resulting in a naff finish. Also the outside of the heap will plate better than the inside because the bubbles will get trapped.

Rustability depends on the surface finish. Polished steel doesn't rust, grit blasted steel rusts before your very eyes. Everything else falls somewhere in between.

HankMcSpank
25-02-2010, 12:36 PM
tks Robin - well how about laying each pole piece piece on it's edge at the bottom of the mesh bag (a poor finish at the point of contact would be hidden inside the bobbin when installed) - I only really care about the visible top surface

Robin Hewitt
25-02-2010, 01:04 PM
Going beyond my knowlege, I usually hang parts on copper wires making sure they don't touch to avoid blemishes.

I think this is suck it and see.

If I have a heap I send it for plating. Ask the plater what he can do, gold is nice and the punters perceive quality, cobalt gold is brighter and very hard wearing... :naughty:

bogstandard
27-02-2010, 03:12 AM
Why not just stick the pieces to a square bar magnet using the ends not requiring plating, like a hedgehog effect. The bar magnet should be able to conduct the power OK.

Bogs

ptjw7uk
27-02-2010, 07:37 AM
Small pieces are plated using a rotating mesh basket, not sure what thewydo when the mesh gets plated so theres no holes.

Peter

Robin Hewitt
27-02-2010, 08:38 AM
Small pieces are plated using a rotating mesh basket, not sure what thewydo when the mesh gets plated so theres no holes.


Reverse the current? Probably depends on the value of the metal against the cost of the electricity.

I like Bog's magnet idea, consider it stolen.
Now, where can I get a brass magnet?:beer:

ptjw7uk
27-02-2010, 09:26 AM
Thanks Robin, It all comes back to me now. Thats how we used to measure plating thickness of tin plating on wire, reverse plate until you get a kick in voltage when you hit the copper.

Peter

HankMcSpank
01-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Well in the end, I couldn't actuallly find anything else I needed to get the order up to £10! (It was a real struggle & some of their prices are quite expensive - esp for the stuff I'd normally want!), and all this talk of those pieces being hardened has put me off.

I've now ordered some bog standard lengths of 5mm mild steel rod & will just have to hone my parting off skills (& buy a Nickel plating kit)

due to the potential drudgery of parting off lots of 5mm diameter & 5mm long steel pieces I'm now toying with the idea of coming up with some form of a simple feeder to feed the steel rod into the the rear of my lathe's chuck!). that said my mini lathe went bang last night (literaly) so all this is on hold pending investigations into that (& it doesn't look good - probably the pcb).

Oh joy ...I don't suppose anyone has a DC motor driver board they want to sell?

bogstandard
01-03-2010, 06:28 PM
It is easy to get a depth stop that you require.
Doing something like I have shown in the sketch will get you within a couple of thou tolerance for each one.
You don't have to use the bit of wood, as long as you touch on the tailstock chuck, then back off a couple of thou before tightening your lathe chuck. Otherwise if you use the thin bit of wood, pull it out before starting the cut. That will stop it jamming up at the very end the cut off.

Bogs

irving2008
02-03-2010, 12:03 AM
....my mini lathe went bang last night (literaly) so all this is on hold pending investigations into that (& it doesn't look good - probably the pcb).

Oh joy ...I don't suppose anyone has a DC motor driver board they want to sell? Depending on what's fried it may be repairable, some pics would be interesting...

HankMcSpank
02-03-2010, 09:21 AM
Re my blown board, new thread opened...

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php?1743-Honey-I-blew-up-the-mini-lathe-speed-control-board&p=11488