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GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 06:48 AM
Got hooked on CNC when I first seen one in action on You tube,must have spent the best part of an hour or more watching these machines in action...Fantastic!

So I've bought me parts,constructing a bed which is still in the making.

Thought I'd try a dry run of getting the motors in operation and found its not as simple as I thought in getting them up and running so ifanyone could helpme out wiring themup from scratch I'd be ever so grateful :confused:

I think my problems stems around the breakout board which I purchased from DIYcnc
This is the PDF link to the info on it....
http://www.diycnc.co.uk/System1.pdf

The Drivers and Motors I purchased from ArcEuro Trade at an incredible lowprice.

This is the PDF link to the motors...
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/stepper/220Ncm%20Stepper%20Motor%20160-010-00400.pdf

And the PDF linkto the drivers....
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/stepper/4.2A%20Stepper%20Driver%20Manual.pdf

If someone could kindly take the time and jot down where the wiring up should go I'd be eternally grateful,although I've managed to wire the components up right? Ijust cannot fo the life of me fathom out why I can't get the motors to sing in Mach3 and its really annoying me :confused:

George

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 06:58 AM
I'll submit a drawing of how I've wired them up if this helps anyone?

irving2008
11-07-2010, 09:56 AM
George,

A quick diagram, and also say what you MACH3 setting are and we'll have you going in no time... :) The combination of kit you have is very common so there should be no surprises....

What power supply are you using?

Did you buy the DIYCNC board as a kit or ready made?

When you power it on, what lights/sounds do you get.

Do the motors 'lock' when you power up, or can you still turn them by hand?

jonm
11-07-2010, 10:08 AM
hi george
this is the wiring for msd542 driver from zapp to the pcpps bob from diycnc might help you

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 10:30 AM
George,

A quick diagram, and also say what you MACH3 setting are and we'll have you going in no time... :) The combination of kit you have is very common so there should be no surprises....

What power supply are you using?

Did you buy the DIYCNC board as a kit or ready made?

When you power it on, what lights/sounds do you get.

Do the motors 'lock' when you power up, or can you still turn them by hand?

Hi Irving

Power supply is 24v at 6.5amp output.

Bought it as a kit but i'm conversant with electronics somewhat.

Do you mean the lights on the Breakoutboard? if so only the blue powerlight comes on.

The motors lock,to be honest I'm not sure about the pin layout on the breakoutboard...Imean the info in the manual is not written very well, I'd go as far to say that it was terribly poor explaination for the novice CNC builder.

Will post a diagram later on today as I really need some shuteye,goteyes like ciggy burns in a blanket.

Thanks a bunch for helping. :wink:

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 10:31 AM
Hi JonM

Can't load that file for some reason? only have Mach3 on hardrive at the moment.

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 10:46 AM
Here's some info on the motors setupin Mach3...need any more please let me know?

I'm summising in the diagnostics screen those red lights should be green? but no matter what I do I cannot get them to turn green?

irving2008
11-07-2010, 10:56 AM
George,

Sounds like your motor wiring is right if the motors lock on power up. Anyway, might not be of much help but here is a wiring diagram for that combination of boards showing the X-Stepper only, Y and Z would be similar...

2407

irving2008
11-07-2010, 11:00 AM
Hi JonM

Can't load that file for some reason? only have Mach3 on hardrive at the moment.

Thats 'cos its a DXF file and not too many Windows 'out-of-the-box' applications can open it, needs a CAD package...

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 11:06 AM
Irving,that diagram doesn't show the enable +&- does that mean they are dismissed?

There's one wire there that I had in "ena-"

irving2008
11-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Here's some info on the motors setupin Mach3...need any more please let me know?

I'm summising in the diagnostics screen those red lights should be green? but no matter what I do I cannot get them to turn green?
George,

In the Outputs tab, disable the 'enable #1,#2,#3 and output #1,#2,#3 lines (red X them) but enable the ChargePump line on pin 1... I suspect thats the reason its not singing... assuming wiring is OK

irving2008
11-07-2010, 11:23 AM
Irving,that diagram doesn't show the enable +&- does that mean they are dismissed?

There's one wire there that I had in "ena-"

The Chargepump circuit on the DIYCNC board acts directly on its outputs so for a stepper circuit it makes no difference. The external enable would be used to power down a servo where there is external 'intelligence' driving the motor. The reason I'd leave it disconnected here is that the DIYCNC board outputs an 'Active Low' enable signal, but the drivers use active low to "enable the motor for manual operation", i.e. disable it!

If you suspect the problem is the chargepump not enabling the outputs, jumper J3 on the DIYCNC board - which is normally left off - can be fitted temporarily to override that and enable the outputs permanently...

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 11:27 AM
Done all what you have stated Irving and still no life out of the motors :-(

irving2008
11-07-2010, 11:34 AM
OK... let me have a think, go get some shuteye :D.. i'll be back on later...

one quick question tho... what are you connecting the PC to the BoB with? are you 100% sure its a 25way pin to pin cable... we've seen lots of 'printer' cables that aren't..... and they simply dont work...

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 11:38 AM
Plugging the breakerboard directly into the parallel port.

Yeah,think I'll call it a night...erm day. :)

Cheers Irving.

GeorgeD
11-07-2010, 05:48 PM
Well I've a nap,basically she gave me a dig to get up :twisted:

Had another bash at this darnnone motor tuning.

Connected 1 drive and one motor,the motor was nt the one I was using ealier but one that came ut of a big office printer/fax which was fully working before I cannibalised it :twisted:

Still no joy,the motor is in the lock position and gets warm,Mach3 goes through its process of executing a loaded G-Code....so what the dickens can it be?

The components on the System1 breakout board don't even get warm to the touch ie the high voltage reg thats strapped to the heatsink,normally any compnents strapped to a heatsink get warm or hot underload.

irving2008
12-07-2010, 12:34 AM
George,

One other thing I forgot to ask... have you been through the 'motor tuning' section of the MACH3 manual? What settings do you have for steps/mm, acceleration and step pulse width (should be at least 5).

If you have a mutlimeter, check the 5v output from the BoB, confirm its 5v and its getting to the + pins on the driver (orange wire on my diagram). Also measure voltage between the ENA output and the 5v rail. This should measure close to 5v if the system is enabled. If its not, try putting J3 in place to override the chargepump and confirm that the enable output goes low (i.e. measures 5v between it and 5v rail). The 'chargepump' CP LED should be on as should the POWER LED.

A simple test ypu can do is to disconnect the 'step X' wire from the BoB, (in my diagram the blue wire to PULS-) leave everything else connected. Set the motor driver to full step. touch the step X wire to the ground terminal, the motor should step each time you do that.... if it does then the issue is with the Bob or the MACH3 configuration.

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 08:22 AM
Hi Irving

Are you the only techie on here? :wink:

Ok I'll peform some steps(bad pun) later on today as I need a rest from this.

I figure it just might be the bob as the charge pump led come and goes as does the power led,this board is basically naff because what happens is the led without pwer supply attached to 70v rail,glows dimly and when you attach the power supply its bright,I never known a piece of equipment that functions on the power side like that.

The charge pump led comes on and goes off when I reboot the computer ie it comes on just as it boots into the initialising screen and then goes out when windows is about to boot.

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 08:33 AM
What settings do you have for steps/mm, acceleration and step pulse width (should be at least 5).

This step and pulse does it automatically calculate the required number or have we to put it in?

Just had a quick browse of this PDF file http://www.kelinginc.net/Mach3Tutorial.pdf of setting up Mach3 and I can't work out the required parameters.

irving2008
12-07-2010, 08:51 AM
you have to tell it what steps/mm and acceleration.. just use 100 steps/mm, velocity 1000mm/min, acc 5mm/s/s, step pulse 5, dir pulse 5, these are good defaults for now... you'll set them correctly once the machine is built.

The charge pump LED should be out (I think) until MACH3 starts then it should come on... or the other way round... either way it should change...

The power supply LED glows when it plugged into the parallel port but not powered? hmmm, then its being driven from the parallel port outputs which is possible through the input clamp diode on the buffer chip so not sure that in itself is an indicator of faultiness...

I have a bit of software to exercise the parallel port, to prove hardware independent of MACH3... i'll try and upload it later on today...

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 09:37 AM
Taking the stepx(-pulse)to ground steps the motor incremently each touch to ground,Irving.

John S
12-07-2010, 10:35 AM
Hi Irving

Are you the only techie on here? :wink:

Ok I'll peform some steps(bad pun) later on today as I need a rest from this.

I figure it just might be the bob as the charge pump led come and goes as does the power led,this board is basically naff because what happens is the led without pwer supply attached to 70v rail,glows dimly and when you attach the power supply its bright,I never known a piece of equipment that functions on the power side like that.

The charge pump led comes on and goes off when I reboot the computer ie it comes on just as it boots into the initialising screen and then goes out when windows is about to boot.


You need to step back and check thru logically, read up on what you can and if you can't understand anything ask first.
Don't start experimenting as that the way to damage components.

It only takes one crossed wire to damage a component.

Wire up the power supply and test it.
Make sure you know which is positive. and what voltage it's putting out.
Then connect this to the BOB, Do you have a power light ? are you getting 5 volt and 12 volt from the auxiliary supply points at the side of the power in ?
Connect the power supply to the drivers, do you get the power on LED lit up ?

Now connect the steppers to the drivers taking note of how they need to be wired.

Do the stepper clunk and lock on switch on ?

That proves the power side first.

As an aside what computer are you using ? and does it have an inbuilt parallel port or an add on card.?

There is nothing wrong with Roy's boards, I have fitted well over 70 - 80 different models and never had any trouble with them.

FatFreddie
12-07-2010, 10:36 AM
I figure it just might be the bob as the charge pump led come and goes as does the power led,this board is basically naff because what happens is the led without pwer supply attached to 70v rail,glows dimly and when you attach the power supply its bright,I never known a piece of equipment that functions on the power side like that.


My System 4 board does that as well so I don't think that's the problem, as Irving says, it's just picking some power up from the parallel port.

If it's the same as the System 4 board then the charge pump LED should be on when it's powered and there is a signal on the charge pump pin (provided by Mach3) so that all sounds ok as well.

I'm afraid I don't use Mach3 so I can't help with configuring that.

Good luck!
Mark

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 10:52 AM
As an aside what computer are you using ? and does it have an inbuilt parallel port or an add on card.?

Parallel is onboard and BOB fitted direct to port without cable.

What you said above in your post I did all this on the outset of completeing the BOB ie bought as a kit,checked for no dry joints and shorting of soldered joints and compoonent configuration.
I do have a fair bit of electronic knowledge as I repaired TV and Vids many moons ago.

The BOB seems to be finnicky in relation to the charge pump led coming on or not coming on when computer reboots,it could be paralllel port problems? but I've never had a problem printing from it and a the motors and drivers have been new I have to suspect the BOB at present,as I don't have another BOB I'm just looking for help on rectifying the problem.

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 11:26 AM
Some developement,it seems and I apologise for to ROY suspecting the BOB but I've switched the motor fromX axis to Y axis and its working ie slowley executing its phase in a loaded Mach3 G-code.

So why is the X axis not functioning?

irving2008
12-07-2010, 11:39 AM
That is progress. Is the chargepump LED on or have you overridden it with jumper J3?

what test gear do you have available? multimeter?

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Hi Irving

Charge Pump Led lit

Multimeter,I do have a oscillscope but its down at the moment...have not got round to fixing it.

Anyway as you said some progress:dance:

irving2008
12-07-2010, 12:01 PM
OK.. and is the motor reversing as well as stepping? (checking the DIR signal is changing as well)

What I'd do is check out the other channels Z and A (exercise A by telling Mach3 the A channel is the X channel i.e. use pins 8/9 instead of 2/3 in the configuration tab)

If they are all working its likely to be a solder bridge or dry joint on the X channel... easy enough to trace it through from pin 2 on the DB25 connector through the HC541 (using the datasheet to determine pinouts) to the 'stepX' connector.

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 12:10 PM
cWill do as suggested,Irving.

What the best way to tune the motors assuming I get the X axis sorted?

Have to cut loose,got rellies down for a bit. :whistling:

irving2008
12-07-2010, 12:22 PM
you cant tune the motors properly til the mechanics are built, but you can set expected values. The values I gave are very conservative ones that should allow the motors to work easily.

When you are on the motor tuning page in MACH3 I believe that the up and down arrow keys cause the motor to rotate, which is a lot easier than running g-code each time to exercise that axis.

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 02:24 PM
No output to the A axis either put it in slave mode over Xaxis and still no running f both axis.

Checked for continuity on tracks to IC U4 74HC541 line driver chip might be faulty?

irving2008
12-07-2010, 02:44 PM
hmmm... does Z work?

It would be very unusual for a chip to fail, these line drivers can take a lot of abuse. You could unplug the BoB from the PC and exercise each pin 2 - 9 to ground and to +5v with a bit of wire and check the voltage at pins 2 - 9 of the HC541 and the matching outputs 18 - 11 and see that they are as expected.

Its def an HC541?... you've not got the 541 and 244 swapped over (which would give exactly those symptoms i.e. 2 work, 2 dont)

Irving...

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 03:14 PM
Yep Z and Y axis ae fine.

Quickets way to find out is replacing the chip,Irving as they'e only pennys to buy.

Will let you know in a dy or two how I get on with it and inform you as to whether it was the chip.

For now I've neglected other work messing around with this and I'll tackle that work till I nip down the towny for a replacement chip.

Many thanks for your help and those who chipped in,appreciated

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 10:52 PM
Got another problem,since I know the Z and Y axis work I've been having a dabble to try and get to know MAch3 functions and how it works.

However in the Motor tuning setup I cannot get anything out of the motors,they jut won't turn....they work fine if I load a G-code.
Going through the PDF of how to set up Mach3 and this is the first thing it explains to do but it ain't happening for me :cry:any ideas?

Thank yer vey kindly :wink:

GeorgeD
12-07-2010, 11:11 PM
Dang! hold the front page chaps...I reread the PDF and must have overlooked the part where it says "Now press the up&down key on the keyboard" :rolleyes:

irving2008
13-07-2010, 01:33 AM
Dang! hold the front page chaps...I reread the PDF and must have overlooked the part where it says "Now press the up&down key on the keyboard" :rolleyes:Ummm, think i said that in post #30...

GeorgeD
13-07-2010, 01:56 AM
Ummm, think i said that in post #30...

So you did Iving,:heehee: I gotta blame it on her indoors,she keeps me awake half the night :naughty:

GeorgeD
13-07-2010, 05:48 PM
Success,seems it wa the chip after all.

I got a couple at 30p each and also the other type as well.
Good job I put them in DIL sockets rather than directly slodered. :-)

irving2008
13-07-2010, 06:24 PM
good to know you're "on the move"... glad to help

GeorgeD
13-07-2010, 06:46 PM
Magic,Iving.:smile:

Is it normal for the motors to make a noise(not operating)when not in use ie no pogram running for their use?

Thanks.

irving2008
13-07-2010, 07:23 PM
yes, steppers often 'sing'. There is a switch setting on the drivers for "half current when idle", have you tried that setting, it might make them quieter