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Ricardoco
28-07-2010, 07:58 PM
Hi there, does anyone know what taper is standard on the boxford 260vmc, i know they came with Easychange tool holders from Coventry but what the taper is i have no idea and after trawling the net all day i still have no idea, there is so little information about these machines it makes me wonder if anyone actually ever owned or used one!!:rolleyes:






-------------------
Rick

irving2008
29-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Its the same as the 190VMC. You might find out more info by talking to Coventry Toolholders on +44(0) 24 7664 5999. They make them for R8, MT and other tapers but could probably tell you what was supplied to Boxford. Or talk to Boxford on +44 (0)1422 358311

I'm guessing its going to be R8 or MT3

John S
29-07-2010, 12:20 AM
Not sure but I'm certain it's INT35

irving2008
29-07-2010, 12:36 AM
I did find this comment on the web:

"Here i have for sale an excellent condition Boxford 260 VMC cnc milling machine with R8 easychange toolholder, which is converted to Mach3" so there's a clue....

John S
29-07-2010, 12:55 AM
Sorry, I was thinking Denford, had no experiance of Boxfords.

Ricardoco
29-07-2010, 01:13 AM
Good grief!! can i just say thank you to those of you who have taken the time to help me out on that, be sure if there is something i can help you with you wont have to ask!!!

So im thinking from what has been said that R8 is the order of the day and if it is R8 then that has made my day.... im going to have a look at the said machine friday.. that should make a nice little project for me..

Again i cant thank you all enough..

Rick

Ricardoco
29-07-2010, 01:18 AM
I think as there is so little information on this mill that I will make a thread showing what i find out (Specs & observations) when I get this machine home and also a step by step of how I fully convert it to MACH3 so that others will not have to ask such stupid questions in the future.

Rick

GeorgeD
29-07-2010, 01:41 AM
Steady on,Rick...you'll have heads swelling. :heehee::wink:

irving2008
29-07-2010, 01:58 AM
I think as there is so little information on this mill that I will make a thread showing what i find out (Specs & observations) when I get this machine home and also a step by step of how I fully convert it to MACH3 so that others will not have to ask such stupid questions in the future.

Rick

Theres a documented conversion here (http://www.howtwo.co.uk/cnc/boxford.htm)

Ricardoco
29-07-2010, 07:13 AM
I did try that link but i cant make it work, has it been moved??

irving2008
29-07-2010, 09:19 AM
works for me....

The zip file is a MHT web archive, you should be able to unzip and open it in your browser locally

Ricardoco
29-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Thank you for that, im not sure why i couldnt get the link to work, and yes that is a very interesting page. I will still however do what i said, as i will probably do a complete strip down measure and refurb on the unit including new steppers and the such.
but again thanks, its always easier to do a project when you know there is a font of knowlege such as the people on this forum to help out when you get stuck.

Rick

GeorgeD
29-07-2010, 05:05 PM
Nope,works fine here,Rick.

Ricardoco
29-07-2010, 07:25 PM
Cheers George I guess it may be because im on the works laptop and they are super secure and for that reason super fussy!!

i2i
30-07-2010, 12:50 AM
All the ones i've seen are R8.

GeorgeD
30-07-2010, 02:59 AM
This site has the manualon the VMC260...but its £40 :surprised:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/manuals/

Ricardoco
30-07-2010, 04:11 PM
This site has the manualon the VMC260...but its £40 :surprised:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/manuals/

:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: George thanks for that it made me laugh, I think i will write my own, £40 is taking the P*## a bit. I often wonder just how much these people think about marketing, I bet they sell a load at that price!!!

Ricardoco
31-07-2010, 03:35 PM
Ok the machine arrived last night and the first thing i will say is "If you want to know how much one of these things weigh, well 4 big lads all struggled to move it, and I mean big strong lads."

More to follow!

irving2008
31-07-2010, 03:56 PM
:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: George thanks for that it made me laugh, I think i will write my own, £40 is taking the P*## a bit. I often wonder just how much these people think about marketing, I bet they sell a load at that price!!!
surely the opposite is true... its supply and demand... how many people want one? very few, therefore to make it profitable to sell it attracts a premium. Most of the manuals Tony sells are £15 - £25. He has to cover his costs, whether he buys them in or reprints them. I bet if you went to Boxford and asked to buy a manual they'd ask a lot more, assuming they'd sell it to you at all.

Ricardoco
31-07-2010, 05:00 PM
surely the opposite is true... its supply and demand... how many people want one? very few, therefore to make it profitable to sell it attracts a premium. Most of the manuals Tony sells are £15 - £25. He has to cover his costs, whether he buys them in or reprints them. I bet if you went to Boxford and asked to buy a manual they'd ask a lot more, assuming they'd sell it to you at all.

Hey i take your point however that is just too much full stop, and by the same token if it had been around £20 I would have paid it in a flash, as would others I suspect, but as it is ive walked away. How much money was made from that? A product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Whilst I understand that costs need to be covered and profits need to be made, is it not also true that if few people are buying maybe its the price that is too high, high prices are usually dictated by how many people want the product and so are willing to pay more than the others, A very very succesfull auction site on the net is testament to that, the greater the demand, the higher the price. But at the end of the day if i want it bad enough i will pay whatever is asked, so maybe that is the reason the manual is priced at £40 its upto who ever is selling it and please dont think any insult to the seller was intended, its just too pricey for me.

Ricardoco
31-07-2010, 05:16 PM
i2i has kindly pointed something out to me. The Steppers & Stepper drivers are usable however i have to devise or find a way to interface the 12v drivers with the 5v parallel port, has anybody here addressed this problem? the stepper drivers are : - "PKS-DIGIPLAN SD3's" ive found some Free manuals for the drivers on the DENFORD Site which i am at this moment digesting (or trying )

irving2008
31-07-2010, 06:33 PM
i2i has kindly pointed something out to me. The Steppers & Stepper drivers are usable however i have to devise or find a way to interface the 12v drivers with the 5v parallel port, has anybody here addressed this problem? the stepper drivers are : - "PKS-DIGIPLAN SD3's" ive found some Free manuals for the drivers on the DENFORD Site which i am at this moment digesting (or trying )
That wont be hard to achieve as long as the signals are the same (e.g. Step & DIR), do you have wiring diagram?

GeorgeD
31-07-2010, 07:16 PM
Wellifyou intend to service it,Rick?

Just video closely what you do to remove/disassemble and then watch the video onhow you removed it to begin with....mind you you will have to play the vid backwards on assembly:heehee:

Ricardoco
31-07-2010, 07:32 PM
That wont be hard to achieve as long as the signals are the same (e.g. Step & DIR), do you have wiring diagram?

I have managed to find a wiring diagram named digiplan using two BC547's and a couple of 3k3 resistors it does seem to be a very simple circuit (but then they all are if they work!) but i can see from the diagram what is going on and i must say i2i is a very help full chap.. did you have an alternative to the digiplan interface ?

Ricardoco
31-07-2010, 07:35 PM
Wellifyou intend to service it,Rick?

Just video closely what you do to remove/disassemble and then watch the video onhow you removed it to begin with....mind you you will have to play the vid backwards on assembly:heehee:


Hey George i will be taking lots of pictures and notes believe me :heehee:

irving2008
01-08-2010, 12:42 AM
I have managed to find a wiring diagram named digiplan using two BC547's and a couple of 3k3 resistors it does seem to be a very simple circuit (but then they all are if they work!) but i can see from the diagram what is going on and i must say i2i is a very help full chap.. did you have an alternative to the digiplan interface ?Yes, thats what I'd guessed it would need, a simple level shifter... easy to build... I would have drawn you up one if you'd needed...

Ricardoco
01-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Yes, thats what I'd guessed it would need, a simple level shifter... easy to build... I would have drawn you up one if you'd needed...

Thanks Irving its certainly nice of you to offer. I am going to get some pictures up in a moment so you can all see what i am refering to..


Rick

Ricardoco
01-08-2010, 07:22 PM
A look inside finds some nice goodies

2496The Stepper drivers (SD3)
2495The Switching
2494The Speed controller

More pictures to follow (I so Love taking things apart :whistling:)

Ricardoco
01-08-2010, 07:42 PM
Maybe i should have uploaded this one first but here it is anyhow (missing 1 driver that im examining)

2497

Oooo The Electrics.:surprised: :naughty:

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 12:13 AM
Ok here is a look at the machine before i picked it up.

2499
And here is a picture of the breakout and control board. (ooooo that looks complicated)
2498
Incidently this board has a date on the back of 23/1/95 so I suspect is an upgrade or replacement but without any pictures or the original board/machine electrics I cant tell what mods have been made to this machine.

If you have any thoughts or knowledge on the subject please pipe in!

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Does anyone recognise this main board???

irving2008
02-08-2010, 02:01 PM
That main board looks like a proprietary job. To be honest, I'd scrap it and assume using MACH3 and a BOB to the existing stepper drivers via level shifters as previously discussed or to new drivers & Steppers. With the standard software you start the run on the PC but nothing happens till you press the green 'cycle' button on the lower left of the panel. Obviously the panel could be rewired to input into Mach3 - e-stop, jog, etc...

i2i
02-08-2010, 03:17 PM
it is the standard board that comes with the machine

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Its Gone!!! ive ripped it out as i have everything that will not be utilised by Mach3, except the lights of course. What fun that was... I will be using the existing steppers, Drivers and power supply and anything else i can get away with. I was reading the SD drive manual and it looks like there is provision for each drive to control two steppers...errr.

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 04:01 PM
That main board looks like a proprietary job. To be honest, I'd scrap it and assume using MACH3 and a BOB to the existing stepper drivers via level shifters as previously discussed or to new drivers & Steppers....


Obviously the panel could be rewired to input into Mach3 - e-stop, jog, etc...

I think you were reading my mind then, because that was exactly my plan..

John S
02-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Good lad, You won't regret it.
Done a load of Denfords and they were all kludges to get working on original software.

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Good lad, You won't regret it.
Done a load of Denfords and they were all kludges to get working on original software.

The thing is Mach3 is such a nice piece of software that i was always going to go that way, Joking aside though it always seems like such a shame to rip it to bits, when someone has put so much time and effort wiring it to begin with, it was so neat and tidy its made it a snip to see whats going on ... but still times move on dont they???

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 05:45 PM
Oh i forgot this little board attached to the end of the Lenze 534 speed controler: it looks like it maybe be an interface board for software speed controll via the old main board.2500

GeorgeD
02-08-2010, 05:47 PM
We don't want to see the computer,Rick...we want to see the machine itself,so some more pics please of the heart of the machine.:wave:

By the way that computer belongs to Noah. :heehee:

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 06:09 PM
We don't want to see the computer,Rick...we want to see the machine itself,so some more pics please of the heart of the machine.:wave:

Ok here they are then...

2504 2507 2502 25052506 2503 Thats the outside done.



By the way that computer belongs to Noah. :heehee:
2501
:rolleyes: :redface: Hmmmm..

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 06:37 PM
Ok thats the rubbish yanked out!!

251325122511251025082509
:cry:

Thats the progress to date, New stuff arriving any day now. The speed controller and the rack with the drivers in it have only been removed temporarily while I get the wiring sorted and to allow me to mount the new breakout board when it arrives..
Now comes the bit i hate....WAITING FOR THE POSTMAN!!!!!!!
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png

GeorgeD
02-08-2010, 07:17 PM
What does the other half? think about you buying something expensives and ripping it apart? :wink:

Ricardoco
02-08-2010, 07:24 PM
After 28yrs of marriage i suspect she has learned to keep here opinions to herself and im not going to ask how she feels about it, she benifits from the bikes i do so i suppose she can see the logic but again ive learned the hard way if you dont ask for someones opinion you are less likely to be offended by it!!! (besides ive seen her watching with interest over my shoulder when im watching the cnc stuff on Youtube!!!)

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 12:10 AM
Ive started to design the control panel to replace the old tatty one ive taken off and it occured to me that i would like a tacho on for the spindle, after spending a couple of hours searching the net i came up with the Trexon Tachulator from MKC Tools however they are on a summer break so thats a no go besides which coming from america it takes an age, so back to the drawing board.. So im not trying to re-invent the wheel here i just want to buy a board similar to the Trexon.. but guess what i just cant seem to find one so any sugestions here?


Rick

irving2008
03-08-2010, 12:25 AM
lots of ways to do that.... what do you have to monitor the spindle speed? an index pulse or just a control voltage?

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 02:08 AM
lots of ways to do that.... what do you have to monitor the spindle speed? an index pulse or just a control voltage?

On the top of the spindle there is a metal plate with 50 holes around the edge, and what i suspect is a optical sensor.

irving2008
03-08-2010, 08:42 AM
can you post a pic of it... and the sensor? That should make it easier...

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 09:05 AM
Irving, your wish is my command.....


2523
And here is one taken the other way.
2522

Does this help?

GeorgeD
03-08-2010, 10:14 AM
Yep,thats a RPM timing sensor.

irving2008
03-08-2010, 10:25 AM
Irving, your wish is my command.....
...
Does this help?
Yes. with that number of holes was probably used for closed loop spindle speed control rather than just speed measuring. Have you retained the spindle speed controller and do you plan to reuse it? Even at this age it would have been 0 - 8v or 0 - 10v control signal and MACH3 can drive that through a suitable speed interface and that might be a lot easier than finding a suitable replacement speed controller. Any idea what the max spindle speed might be?


Yep,thats a RPM timing sensor.Thanks for that in-depth insight...:rolleyes:

GeorgeD
03-08-2010, 10:33 AM
Thanks for that in-depth insight...:rolleyes:

You're welcome,Irving. :rolleyes:


I was going to give a better explanation but it too early in the morning. :eek:

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Yes. with that number of holes was probably used for closed loop spindle speed control rather than just speed measuring. Have you retained the spindle speed controller and do you plan to reuse it?
The Controller for the spindle is a Lenze 534. I will be keeping this on the machine.


Even at this age it would have been 0 - 8v or 0 - 10v control signal and MACH3 can drive that through a suitable speed interface

Ive ordered an interface for mach control from cncdoctor and yes it is 0-10v


Any idea what the max spindle speed might be?

The motor has the numbers 370-4000 engraved on it however with gearing i think we are looking at around 3000rpm max at the tool, probably 2500-3000rpm. The spindle pickup was wired directly to the old main board so i can only assume it was processed there but as that is now gone i need an alternative and it would be nice to have the side effect of a display on the machine itself.


Thanks for that in-depth insight...:rolleyes:

:lmao:lol that made me really laugh!!

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 11:33 AM
For the life of me I cant understand why we dont have a Usefull little circuit like the Trexon Tachulator from MKC Tools here on a UK site, or if there is?? why it is so difficult to find, Buy it, Fit it, Use it, Enjoy it, simplezzz. (obviosly not)

irving2008
03-08-2010, 11:48 AM
I am pretty sure (tho I've not looked at the manual) that MACH3 can provide a spindle speed display, but that wouldnt be on the machine... which would be nifty but not of any great value... finding an off the shelf panel mounted rev counter might be tricky, a quick google didnt reveal anything useful... whatever it is needs to be able to scale at 50:1. A simple PIC-based solution would be easy to implement tho...

That Texon is ugly, but easy to replicate... maybe I'll knock up a quick PIC design for it...

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 12:06 PM
Well it may be ugly but its better than the ones available over here, i found loads of people asking for a circuit to do this but not many links to sites, I cant imagine there is no demand for this type of product, in fact reading the manual for the Texon they even provide a printable overley for your convienience.
There are plenty of people such as yourself who can do a little pic circuit with output to a display of some description and the maths is not too difficult for the program 50pulses=1rev for just a counter, introduce a clock and you have a tacho (not that simple i know) but it is for those people such as yourself and myself for that matter but an off the shelf solution would be better for the masses.

Wobblybootie
03-08-2010, 12:22 PM
Yet again I am gobsmacked by the range of knowledge and skills displayed here on the Forum. For the short time I have been a member here I cannot remember a problem that has not been solved in some way or another.

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 12:39 PM
Oh cool the postman has just dropped of some goodies for my collection :tongue:

2524

12 Relay board DPDT...made by me
27 Switches SPST latching and non latching...fleabay
2 x 0-27vdc power supply boards...maplin
Motor Speed interface for mach...cncdoctor
Opto breakout board...cncdoctor
Standard breakboard...from the shed
50 x bc547 transistors ....fleabay
100 3k3 resistors..... fleabay
100 bi-colour LED's...from shed
100 Chrome LED panel mounts... from shed


and so it begins........

Hey wobblybootie that a cool avatar!!!!

Rick

z3t4
03-08-2010, 12:59 PM
Les Jones posted this (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/leshobbies/leshobbies/Tach%20project), first on the Shumatech site, then on MEW.

It works very nicely as a tachometer. I used an Allegro gear tooth sensor and just told it to count 65 teeth per rev.

HTH,

John

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 01:51 PM
Les Jones posted this (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/leshobbies/leshobbies/Tach%20project), first on the Shumatech site, then on MEW.

It works very nicely as a tachometer. I used an Allegro gear tooth sensor and just told it to count 65 teeth per rev.

HTH,

John

Thank you for the link, This looks like a very nice circuit. I was rather trying to avoid digging out the pic programmer and all the other gumph that goes with it. But unless i can get an off the shelf solution, that seems to be the way i will have to go, as both yourself and Irving have indicated.

Ive just moved home and that stuff formed the least important box when moving, which I suspect means it is in the most awkward place in the garage under god knows what.... HELPPPPPPPPP...

irving2008
03-08-2010, 04:52 PM
no probs rick... write the code and i'll program a PIC for you... if I havent done it first myself... lol what's your preferred flavour of PIC?

The Les Jones solution is neat, but limited... the Trexon's ability to display Surface Speed based on diameter is useful

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 06:10 PM
no probs rick... write the code and i'll program a PIC for you... if I havent done it first myself... lol what's your preferred flavour of PIC?

The Les Jones solution is neat, but limited... the Trexon's ability to display Surface Speed based on diameter is useful


Ok irving can you explain that a little for me because im missing something here..lol

Ive always liked the 16f877 in the pdip package

What features would it be usefull for this program to have and why?

irving2008
03-08-2010, 07:00 PM
what are you missing? design the program and write the code and send me the source and I'll compile it into a PIC :), sell it on ebay... next stop, world domination!!!

Seriously, I use the F877 in my testbed, which has a 4x4 keypad and a 20x2 display (actually 2, one a serial i/f VFD and the other a parallel LCD).

I would have the program have 3 modes:

Mode 1/ show actual speed in RPM (allowing input of a # pulses/rev value)
Mode 2/ Given a material type & a tool diameter & # flutes (or for a lathe, material type and diameter) and return the recommended spindle speed and feed rate
Mode 3/ Given a tool diameter and current speed show the surface cutting speed in m/min

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 07:13 PM
what are you missing? design the program and write the code and send me the source and I'll compile it into a PIC :), sell it on ebay... next stop, world domination!!!

Seriously, I use the F877 in my testbed, which has a 4x4 keypad and a 20x2 display (actually 2, one a serial i/f VFD and the other a parallel LCD).

I would have the program have 3 modes:

Mode 1/ show actual speed in RPM (allowing input of a # pulses/rev value)
Mode 2/ Given a material type & a tool diameter & # flutes (or for a lathe, material type and diameter) and return the recommended spindle speed and feed rate
Mode 3/ Given a tool diameter and current speed show the surface cutting speed in m/min

Thats a cool idea, in fact i wanted to put some axis jog buttons on the front panel as well so maybe i should consider a pic circuit based control panel along with the speed controller, im ok with writing the program i think (ive spent many a wee small hour with my copy of pic basic pro and a 16f877) but im not sure what the input format would be from the speed pickup and the output to the drivers, this is where my knowlege is lacking im afraid.

and thats not to mention how to do an interface that wont mess up Mach short of having a switch that swapped out all the lines lol. so if we are going down the DIY road im going to need to pick many brains!!!!

i2i
03-08-2010, 07:19 PM
there is the old "burst the bubble" way to look at this. Why do you need a spindle tacho on the machine, when it shows you on the monitor what speed the spindle is doing. But most of all, you should know what speed it's going as you would have written the code.

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Well as i have said having a the ability to axis jog without using the PC appeals to me and having a nice RED led display of the speed of the spindle i think is a nice feature, and the other features that irving has mentioned is just a bonus. Besides which i like buttons so there:tongue: :heehee:

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 07:49 PM
But most of all, you should know what speed it's going as you would have written the code.

Ahh yes but there is the speed mach is telling the motor it should be doing and there is the actual speed at the spindle which is what i am after for reference..

IE, belt snaps Mach says 2000rpm, actual spindle at tool 0 rpm.

z3t4
03-08-2010, 07:59 PM
The Les Jones solution is neat, but limited... the Trexon's ability to display Surface Speed based on diameter is useful

Admittedly. I think he designed it as a simple tach, but (with an eye on the clever stuff Shumatech can do with a 1 pulse per rev input, e.g. surface speed) I emailed Les and he kindly provided code to produce a 1 pulse per rev output as well as the 7-seg display. A gentleman.

John

irving2008
03-08-2010, 09:10 PM
Thats a cool idea, in fact i wanted to put some axis jog buttons on the front panel as well so maybe i should consider a pic circuit based control panel along with the speed controller, im ok with writing the program i think (ive spent many a wee small hour with my copy of pic basic pro and a 16f877) but im not sure what the input format would be from the speed pickup and the output to the drivers, this is where my knowlege is lacking im afraid.

and thats not to mention how to do an interface that wont mess up Mach short of having a switch that swapped out all the lines lol. so if we are going down the DIY road im going to need to pick many brains!!!!Interfacing is my speciality, ask away....

pic basic pro... hmmm, ok if you must lol... I'm a C man myself but can program in anything sensible... pic basic is interpreted I think, so not sure if you can get 'real-time' enough to do accurate inter-pulse timing, tho will depend on the PIC clock speed of course.

i2i
03-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Ahh yes but there is the speed mach is telling the motor it should be doing and there is the actual speed at the spindle which is what i am after for reference..

IE, belt snaps Mach says 2000rpm, actual spindle at tool 0 rpm.You're still thinking manual, you've got to get on the cnc bandwagon and trust the machine.:smile:

Ricardoco
03-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Interfacing is my speciality, ask away....

pic basic pro... hmmm, ok if you must lol... I'm a C man myself but can program in anything sensible

Ok C it is if thats what you call it,lol, i will have to dig out all my software now ......

irving2008
03-08-2010, 10:34 PM
Ok C it is if thats what you call it,lol, i will have to dig out all my software now ...... Yes, well sadly its not C#, but its still preferable to that basic stuff (reignites 1980's programmers flame wars lol)

Ricardoco
04-08-2010, 03:41 PM
Well Ill start plugging away at some pseudo, while collecting bits, and putting the new bits on this machine. Mind you I could still do what i2i was hinting at and send all the signals to mach and let it sort it all out thus manually contolling the machine by proxy as it were, mind you i still wouldnt know how to give mach the speed information...

Ricardoco
04-08-2010, 03:48 PM
(reignites 1980's programmers flame wars lol)
With the advent of RAD software many people just dont have a desire or mental capacity to write the code in a text editor these days, in fact back in the 80's they didnt have the desire either, and lets face it 'C' is a nice bit of kit but the time to executable can be faster with the other languages, also requiring less brain power, however as you say not much beats 'C' for raw speed of the final application..

irving2008
05-08-2010, 12:14 AM
Who uses a text editor?... HiMem C for the PIC is a full IDE, with colour highlighting, in-circuit debugging, stack and variable tracing... I reckon I can match pic basic for time to executable on any reasonably complex real-world task (i.e. one requiring real hardware, interrupts, comms handling, etc.) making an LED flash is not a real world program!

but we digress......

BTW a PIC to handle the jog buttons and convert to keystrokes for MACH3 would save on extra input lines and the need to add another parallel port....

ecat
05-08-2010, 12:51 AM
HiMem C always looked nice, for my sins I chose SourceBoost when playing with C on the 16f. Big mistake, a lot of time fighting the compiler.

These days I'd recommend using an 18f device and the free MicroChip IDE, makes for a solid combination and opens up a vast collection of sample code. A little work reading through the MicroChip documentation gives you the added benefit of source code compatibility with the newer pic32 series so if you ever need extra speed (80MHz!), io, memory, graphical user interface lol... heh, pic32 maybe overkill but it sure is sweet :)

irving2008
05-08-2010, 01:02 AM
Sorry - meant HiTech C...its the one that comes with the free IDE, but I upgraded to the full version (not essential, but someone else was paying lol) HiMem C was another, older, tool I had... the compiler does a reasonable job of hiding the chip complexity, Ram banks, i/o banks etc. from you at relatively little overhead... could usefully use more than one break point for debugging but thats a limitation of the on-chip debug support rather then the compiler... but a good range of 3rd party libraries (TCP/IP stack, CAN bus stack, even a mini-webserver).

Ricardoco
05-08-2010, 08:28 AM
Who uses a text editor?.......

I have,, many times.:confused:


HiMem C for the PIC is a full IDE, with colour highlighting, in-circuit debugging, stack and variable tracing.......

Not used it myself, in fact ive never used 'C' of any description for programming a Microcontroler.:rolleyes:



I reckon I can match pic basic for time to executable on any reasonably complex real-world task (i.e. one requiring real hardware, interrupts, comms handling, etc.) making an LED flash is not a real world program!....

Yes I dont doubt that for a moment, but then you are obviosly quite intelligent and thats why i said, "many people just dont have a desire or mental capacity" in fact what I meant was "MOST" not "many":heehee: and also "time to executable can be faster with the other languages" the important word being CAN.



BTW a PIC to handle the jog buttons and convert to keystrokes for MACH3 would save on extra input lines and the need to add another parallel port....

I will have two parallel ports on the machine but thats just because I have two, not because it will need them both.

The thing is i will have to do some serios reading before im finished writing this code, because although I have had experience with both PICS and 'C', this has not been a vast amount, and never together. Ive never used them to interpret inputs and outputs to mach or even a PC parallel port, unlike yourself i think it would be safe to say.

I would like to thank you for speaking to me about this on an equal basis, however it is not equal, as your knowlege of all these subjects is obviosly way ahead of mine, however im willing to learn from you and indeed have already.
:smile:

ecat
05-08-2010, 12:58 PM
See what you think about this http://www.arduino.cc/ or possibly this http://www.skpang.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=474 (http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW32/) plus http://www.cpustick.com/index.htm for any basic fans ( :confused: ).

The Arduino is the hobbyists choice at the moment for small projects, I think it rather costly for what it is.

The Bitwacker gives a lot more bang for buck, but adds some complexity to the software development.

They cost more than a simple chip + support electronics but both have free development tools and neither require dedicated programming hardware. In addition they come pre-assembled and ready to use... Always a benefit :)

Both are total over-kill for a rev counter + LED display, where they win is ease of use. Should you want to add functionality at a later date, they have capacity to spare - the bitwacker could probably drive your whole cnc setup and still have time to make the tea :)

irving2008
05-08-2010, 01:32 PM
I have both Arduino and Freescale Automotive (8 and 32bit) dev kits, but I keep coming back to the PIC 16F/18F series for small projects, mainly because the smaller DIP-style PICs are just so easy to create prototypes with and usually have more than enough bang for the peanuts they cost. Not tried the PIC32 world yet.

A 16 or18pin PIC16F, a cheap display (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Two-New-20-x-2-lines-LCD-Display-Modules-PCB-Sockets-/350377543645), a bit of stripboard and a 4Mhz resonator are all thats needed for a simple rev counter

GeorgeD
05-08-2010, 05:24 PM
Or a piece of foil and one of those ebay £25 point and shoot auto reader counters.

Ricardoco
05-08-2010, 06:00 PM
View from below Driver rack ready for Logic voltage mods.
2558
New tracks added ready for drilling and component additions.
2556
Solder side view with Components added and soldered
2559
Component side view
2557
All done, and ready for fitting back in machine...(maybe):wink:

Rick

Ricardoco
05-08-2010, 06:12 PM
Or a piece of foil and one of those ebay £25 point and shoot auto reader counters.

Thanks George, I did consider going down that road and I may even buy one as they are a very reasonable price and usefull for other things, but i wanted to encorperate it into the machine nice and neatly, which as ugly as it may be the Trexon fitted the bill. Or even something similar I could get my hands on without waiting for eternity, but it seems that this type of circuit is not available off the shelf in the UK which im gutted about.

I have so little time in my day as it is, being a 12hr night shift worker, the only real time I can spare is sleep time, but it seems I will have to go down the Microcontroller road, as nobody on here at least can suggest any other alternative off the shelf solution to the Trexon .....:(

Rick

irving2008
05-08-2010, 11:41 PM
View from below Driver rack ready for Logic voltage mods.
...All done, and ready for fitting back in machine...(maybe):wink:

Rick
neat way of adding the level shifters... looking good...

GeorgeD
06-08-2010, 06:57 AM
The tachometer circuit.
http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/03-Schematic.html (http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/03-Schematic.html)

http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/

GeorgeD
06-08-2010, 07:16 AM
Thanks George, I did consider going down that road and I may even buy one as they are a very reasonable price and usefull for other things

Think outside the box,or in this case inside:heehee:

Buy one, position the foil somewhere on the spindle,strip down the tachomete handheld unit,unsolder the the sensor and put/mount the digital readout in the front of the case n the boxford,solder some wires to the sensor and resolder the wires from the sensor to the digital readout unit.

irving2008
06-08-2010, 10:33 AM
Think outside the box,or in this case inside:heehee:

Buy one, position the foil somewhere on the spindle,strip down the tachomete handheld unit,unsolder the the sensor and put/mount the digital readout in the front of the case n the boxford,solder some wires to the sensor and resolder the wires from the sensor to the digital readout unit.
you missed two vital points George... firstly its not a sensor but a laser reflectometer which is only rated for pulsed usage and secondly, they are not continuous reading but 'read-on-demand' therefore need a push-to-read button ... as a speed readout its not that useful....

irving2008
06-08-2010, 10:36 AM
The tachometer circuit.
http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/03-Schematic.html (http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/03-Schematic.html)

http://www.davehylands.com/Electronics/Tachometer/
Thats what I had in mind, but using a parallel interfaced display.. more common to find, cheaper to buy and easier to program.. for the added complexity of 5 more wires...

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 02:27 PM
Take a look at this.
www.e3b6a5y.com/365/WiringDiagrams/365um6150rpfTACHO.PDF (http://www.e3b6a5y.com/365/WiringDiagrams/365um6150rpfTACHO.PDF)

It seems to fit the bill?????

irving2008
06-08-2010, 03:32 PM
Take a look at this.
www.e3b6a5y.com/365/WiringDiagrams/365um6150rpfTACHO.PDF (http://www.e3b6a5y.com/365/WiringDiagrams/365um6150rpfTACHO.PDF)
except it cant deal with the 50:1 reduction needed...

It seems to fit the bill?????except it can't deal with the 50:1 reduction needed

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 03:34 PM
Ok the new break out board, power supplies and speed control interface mounted and ready for wiring..

2569


Rick

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 03:40 PM
except it can't deal with the 50:1 reduction needed

Yes but it would seem to be easier to change from 50 holes to 1 than to design circuit, buy parts, assemble board, program board.

irving2008
06-08-2010, 05:48 PM
well £24 delivered isnt bad...

blanking out 49 holes might not be as easy as you think, you might need to provide an alternate sensor. Also if you do blank the holes you'd prevent using it for closed loop speed control later...

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 06:02 PM
well £24 delivered isnt bad...

I liked the look of it, its fit for purpose and the price is not bad, although im not sure if i will end up buying another sensor, it will be interesting to see what that chip is on the back.


blanking out 49 holes might not be as easy as you think, you might need to provide an alternate sensor. Also if you do blank the holes you'd prevent using it for closed loop speed control later...

As always im thinking you are correct, maybe ill just mount another sensor on the spindle and be done with that, mind you i couldnt find anything suitable on fleabay

Rick

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 06:06 PM
This may sound stupid, but im just wiring up the drivers to the BOB and i was wondering if there were default ports used for axis, IE X=pin??? y=pin??? etc.. I do like to keep things default, as it makes things less complicated If I get problems.

irving2008
06-08-2010, 06:26 PM
yes there are...

Typically (courtesy DIYCNC)

1 Charge pump signal Enable
2 X Direction X Axis
3 X Step X Axis
4 Y Direction Y Axis
5 Y Step Y Axis
6 Z Direction Z Axis
7 Z Step Z Axis
8 A Direction A Axis
9 A Step A Axis
10 Input 1 Input pin
11 Input 2 Input pin
12 Input 3 Input pin
13 Input 4 Input pin
14 Output signal Output pin
15 Input 5 Input pin
16 Spindle pulse Output pin
17 Relay 1 Output pin
18-25 Ground GND

GeorgeD
06-08-2010, 06:59 PM
blanking out 49 holes might not be as easy as you think

Hmmmm.... childs putty will do nicely methinks

irving2008
06-08-2010, 08:06 PM
George,
I really wonder sometimes if you say things just to wind people up. or did you miss out on potato guns in your childhood? now go calculate the force delivered in your eye from a pea-sized lump of putty due to the tangential velocity at 3000 rpm

Hmmmm.... childs putty will do nicely methinks

GeorgeD
06-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Hey Rick,can you pop some putty in two holes of those holes when you get the machine up and running....if the putty flies out I will buy Irving 2 pints a day for the next 12 months.

Push it in the holes and cut off the excess both sides of the holes.

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 10:11 PM
Hey Rick,can you pop some putty in two holes of those holes when you get the machine up and running....if the putty flies out I will buy Irving 2 pints a day for the next 12 months.

Push it in the holes and cut off the excess both sides of the holes.

:heehee: Hmmmm Hey Irving, Being as i would be the one giving the results of this, what do you say 365 each!!! lol :whistling:


Hey George, thanks for the suggestions. its nice that you take the time to reply.


Rick

Ricardoco
06-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Hey Irving, thanks for the pinouts, thats made life a little simpler, i notice that there is only 1 pin for spindle output pulse, on my board from cncdoctor there are two,one terminal labled "Pulse" and one "RTN"...

Also Ive been looking for a sensor for this display i found on fleabay with no luck, do you have any suggestions?

irving2008
07-08-2010, 12:27 AM
Hey Irving, thanks for the pinouts, thats made life a little simpler, i notice that there is only 1 pin for spindle output pulse, on my board from cncdoctor there are two,one terminal labled "Pulse" and one "RTN"...

Also Ive been looking for a sensor for this display i found on fleabay with no luck, do you have any suggestions?

look on fleabay for "slotted opto", returns half a dozen options... just the device.. will need mounting on a small circuit board with a couple of resistors, and you'll have to rig up some sort of vane on the spindle to interrupt once per rev...

Alternatively, and more easily, if you are set on the ebay display, use a 74HC390 divider chip to give a 'divide by 50' with only 1 chip and 10 solder joints!

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 12:49 AM
If you have any old disc drives? these had a slot opto in them.

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 02:32 AM
look on fleabay for "slotted opto", returns half a dozen options... just the device.. will need mounting on a small circuit board with a couple of resistors, and you'll have to rig up some sort of vane on the spindle to interrupt once per rev...

Alternatively, and more easily, if you are set on the ebay display, use a 74HC390 divider chip to give a 'divide by 50' with only 1 chip and 10 solder joints!

Ok that sounds good but this is uncharted ground for me, the 74hc390 seems like the way to go and i will get a new slotted sensor just to be on the safe side as i dont know if the existing one is ok, you make the circuit sound so simple ill just trust your judgement over mine:confused:



Rick

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 02:34 AM
If you have any old disc drives? these had a slot opto in them.

Im going to have a look and see what ive got, im sure ive got a couple of big old mice hanging around as well, and i think they have something similar in them..

Rick

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 03:13 AM
Hah,yes forgot about the mice :wink:

The ones I'm on about are the type in your Noahs base computer ie 51/4 floppys.

Ain't you got a maplins by you?

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 11:25 AM
Progress Report

The initial inspection has been completed,
and Redundant system hardware identified and removed along with ancilliary wiring.
New control systems identified, evaluated and purchased.
New system requirements.


Electrical Systems
Computer system hardware.......................Completed
Stepper control systems...........................Completed.
Front control panel fabrication....................In progress.
Spindle Speed control...............................In progress.
Spindle Tacho..........................................In progress.
Relay controls.........................................N ot started.
Limit Switches.........................................N ot started.
Software configuration..............................Not started.

Mechanical Systems.
Ballscrew inspection..................................Comple ted.
Bearing Inspection....................................Comp leted.
Motor Refurb............................................ Completed.
Lubrication systems...................................Not started.

Other Stuff

Not yet considered ?????????

Well i dont think ive forgotten anything buts thats a little progress report.

I must say A big thankyou to everyone who has helped me with this project so far with particular thanks going to Irving, George and i2i.

Onward!!

irving2008
07-08-2010, 12:56 PM
Ok that sounds good but this is uncharted ground for me, the 74hc390 seems like the way to go and i will get a new slotted sensor just to be on the safe side as i dont know if the existing one is ok, you make the circuit sound so simple ill just trust your judgement over mine:confused:

Rick
Rick,

Circuit attached...

I'm guessing the opto will need to be powered so I have shown likely values (330R/4k7) for the resistors needed to energise the LED and bias the receiver. If you knew what type it was I could give you better values but these should do.

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 01:08 PM
Rick,

Circuit attached...

I'm guessing the opto will need to be powered so I have shown likely values (330R/4k7) for the resistors needed to energise the LED and bias the receiver. If you knew what type it was I could give you better values but these should do.


Thanks Irving, I went for the H22A1 type sensor if thats any help. I couldnt see Attachment there anywhere ...derrr lol

irving2008
07-08-2010, 01:39 PM
OK, you might find that device a tad slow. You could try 75R instead of 330R and 1k5 instead of 4k7. Otherwise you may find counting is erratic. Alternatively the circuit attached should help...

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 02:15 PM
OK, you might find that device a tad slow. You could try 75R instead of 330R and 1k5 instead of 4k7. Otherwise you may find counting is erratic. Alternatively the circuit attached should help...

Im happy to get what ever device you suggest if you think that one is going to be a tad slow, im just not sure which one to go for, just let me know and ill get it..

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 03:25 PM
Im designing the front control panel and was going to use Acrylic, I decided that the black stuff that when engraved shows through white like office signs would be the way to go, does anyone know what it is called because I cant seem to find any on fleabay but it maybe because im not using the correct terminology... Any takers??


Rick

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 04:09 PM
Plenty of Tachometer schematics here.

http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=digital%20tachometer%20schematic&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

ecat
07-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Acrylic

Try perspex or lucite or ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_glass

Popular for computer case mods: http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=60_158&osCsid=1df41bbfd1dfe07dab0c1372822fcb30
also amongst model makers: http://www.modelshop.co.uk/category/Raw_Materials/Plastics,l.html?page=1&sortBy=AlphabeticalAsc
and not too expensive :)

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Don'tknow about your query for the acrylic Rick,but I found trent plastics very cheap on ebay....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390193949364&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Oh sorry people, bad description by me, I wasnt having probles finding acrylic/perspex, I was having trouble finding the dual colour stuff that engravers use to make door signs and stuff, its usually black but when you engrave through it, a lighter colour, usually white is revealed to show the lettering, sorry.

If i cant get it i can see i will have to do the engraving, then get out the enamel paint and fill the grooves with white. (yuk.... not my fav idea but needs must)

Rick

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 04:40 PM
Couldn't you buy clear acylic and a sheet of black stickyback film,cutout the legend on the film then stick down over the clear acylic.?

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 04:48 PM
Couldn't you buy clear acylic and a sheet of black stickyback film,cutout the legend on the film then stick down over the clear acylic.?

The short answer is yes, and its something i did consider but Ive done something similar in the past and it did look good....for a while but by the time the swarf on my fingers and oil and greese took its tole it was peeling and didnt look so good, but thanks for the suggestion as i may have to find a more DIY approach in the end.....Ahhhhh decisions, decisions, why is it so complicated to do even the simplist things.....:cry:

John S
07-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Problem is that it has so many trade names, or even none.
ABET is one , Traffolite is another.
and these people have no name for it

http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/engravinglaminates.htm

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Problem is that it has so many trade names, or even none.
ABET is one , Traffolite is another.
and these people have no name for it

http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/engravinglaminates.htm

Thanks John, thats more than i knew a moment ago, its very odd that it dosnt seem to be available by the sheet, that is when you can figure out what its called lol

phill05
07-08-2010, 05:14 PM
It's called phenolic don't know if i spelt it correct, I used to use it for engraving I have a small sheet of Black with White centre and larger sheet White with Black centre

phill

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 05:22 PM
Phenolic :question:

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 05:26 PM
It's called Phynolitic don't know if i spelt it correct, I used to use it for engraving I have a small sheet of Black with White centre and larger sheet White with Black centre

phill

Hey thanks Phill, you would have thought it would be much more common wouldnt you, it looks like this is just the sort of forum it would get used and spoken alot.

Im determined to find a supply of it, as i think it is something i know i will use in the future. the panel im designing is 16.5" x 7.5" but i suspect i will have to buy a bigger sheet so i will have to find some more projects to use it on:naughty:

Again thanks Phill

Rick

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 05:30 PM
Hey phill, shall I change it in your quote in My post as well??lol

phill05
07-08-2010, 07:43 PM
Hey Rick,

looked back in my records and found ref: to Pantograph supplies, changed name now but you will find all kinds of sheet here tell you now will be expensive.

http://www.pantograph.co.uk/pdfs/materials.pdf

Phill

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Hey Rick,

looked back in my records and found ref: to Pantograph supplies, changed name now but you will find all kinds of sheet here tell you now will be expensive.

http://www.pantograph.co.uk/pdfs/materials.pdf



Phill

Hey Phill, that is magic, to be honest its not much more than normal perspex, i will have a read through that and get some ordered monday, that will get another job out of the way, the next thing will be to sort out the engraving.

Thanks Phill

Rick

John S
07-08-2010, 08:29 PM
Phenolic is the American name for Tufnol, it's not a two part material.

.

i2i
07-08-2010, 08:51 PM
this place used to be local to me, and they just call it engraving laminates.
http://www.westwardplastics.co.uk/s_abet.php

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 09:01 PM
this place used to be local to me, and they just call it engraving laminates.
http://www.westwardplastics.co.uk/s_abet.php

Cheers i2i, Ill give them a call monday, see if they do smaller pieces..

phill05
07-08-2010, 09:48 PM
Phenolic is the American name for Tufnol, it's not a two part material.

.

It was called Phenolic board a three part white-black-white and black-white-black 20 plus years ago and was purchased in the UK I still have small stock and paperwork for it.

Phill

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 10:02 PM
The earliest form of the phenolic was bakelite,just an old material brought back to life with a new material added.

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 10:14 PM
Ok the first draft of the control panel is ready, its not to scale, its more of a concept rather than a tue representation, and i expect i will have more controls to add and possibly some taken away.

2579

Hey i know why dont you use this as a template and show me your ideas, I may even nick 1 of them lol
Rick

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 10:22 PM
I've got this sneaky feeling Rick,that you like twiddling with knobs?:eek:

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 10:24 PM
I've got this sneaky feeling Rick,that you like twiddling with knobs?:eek:

Well maybe, but when windows is asleep I want to be able to use the machine you see.....:) (I prefer to say switches lol)

GeorgeD
07-08-2010, 10:31 PM
That is a nice panel design and If where to use it I'd take it to a CNC shop and get it etched out in an 2mm aluminium panel..

Bearing in mind I'd have to do the andodising process to get it black first.

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 10:36 PM
That is a nice panel design and If where to use it I'd take it to a CNC shop and get it etched out in an 2mm aluminium panel...
Thank you, I may even do that, although Ill have to find a cnc shop first.


Bearing in mind I'd have to do the andodising process to get it black first.

I saw the link and i may even have a go at that.... as it will come in usefull for the m'cycle parts...

irving2008
07-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Ok the first draft of the control panel is ready, its not to scale, its more of a concept rather than a tue representation, and i expect i will have more controls to add and possibly some taken away.

2579

Hey i know why dont you use this as a template and show me your ideas, I may even nick 1 of them lol
Rick

Nice panel layout, but I think there are some things to consider...

Q1 Are these illuminated switches? If not, consider using illuminated ones inatead of LED repeaters, saves real estate and assembly effort and looks neater
Q2 How are these going to drive the mill when Mach3 is switched off?
Q3 As it stands I reckon you need 11 inputs to mach 3, you have 10 on 2 parallel ports...
Q4 Whats 'Feed' for?
Q5 If the small round circles are LEDs how will they be driven for the mains circuits e.g. computer and monitor power (and do you really need those anyway?)

Ricardoco
07-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Q1 Are these illuminated switches? If not, consider using illuminated ones inatead of LED repeaters, saves real estate and assembly effort and looks neater

Mainly because ive got the LED's and the nice chrome holders on the shelf, and ive also got the switches, (shown in previos post) and to be honest ive seen and used many broken illuminated switches but never the solid top ones.


Q2 How are these going to drive the mill when Mach3 is switched off?


At first most of the switches will just address MACH, but when thats up and running, I will use this (already purchased.)
2580

Q3 As it stands I reckon you need 11 inputs to mach 3, you have 10 on 2 parallel ports...

Not all the buttons will be connected to MACH, IE none of the spindle motor speed controls and most of the others are power switches anyhow.


Q4 Whats 'Feed' for?...

If i am to have successful manual control i will need to have a feed rate control


Q5 If the small round circles are LEDs how will they be driven for the mains circuits e.g. computer and monitor power (and do you really need those anyway?)
I have these on the shelf too :)
2581

I am as always open to suggestions from people who have experience using a mill both manualy and by CNC so if you see anything you think i have missed or messed up then pipe up because I will just as likely forget..


Having looked at the panel the only wsitches that will address MACH are 2*X, 2*Y, 2*Z, 2*A & E-Stop. that makes 9 I think lol

Thanks

Rick

irving2008
08-08-2010, 12:09 AM
Mainly because ive got the LED's and the nice chrome holders on the shelf, and ive also got the switches, (shown in previos post) and to be honest ive seen and used many broken illuminated switches but never the solid top ones.
OK



At first most of the switches will just address MACH, but when thats up and running, I will use this (already purchased.)
What board is that (& chip) ?



Not all the buttons will be connected to MACH, IE none of the spindle motor speed controls and most of the others are power switches anyhow.

If i am to have successful manual control i will need to have a feed rate control
Ummm, OK, but hows that going to work - which axis does it apply to?



Having looked at the panel the only wsitches that will address MACH are 2*X, 2*Y, 2*Z, 2*A & E-Stop. that makes 9 I think lol
Home and/or limit switches...?

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 12:25 AM
What board is that (& chip) ?

fleabay item number 250576566482

Ummm, OK, but hows that going to work - which axis does it apply to?
Home and/or limit switches

This is why I think this forum is tops...there is always too many trees...you cant see all the wood, its so helpfull to have someone who can look and see the obvios.

Ok to incorperate the extra inputs you have highlighted i will have to rework the axis control, maybe an axis selector button and a plus minus button..

Thanks Irving.

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 12:35 AM
Oh yes I know, I thought I was going nuts then irving...

Here is the secret weapon..the contour shuttle. driver exists for mach :)

2582

On the shelf ready to be took to pieces :naughty::twisted:

Rick :smile:

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 12:55 AM
Revised panel layout. (Thanks for pointing the errors out Irving)


2583


Is this whats called, evolution...

No No its vorsprung dork technique

Rick

irving2008
08-08-2010, 01:02 AM
What board is that (& chip) ?

fleabay item number 250576566482

Interesting... but its not clear if the kit is just the PCB or all the necessary parts less PIC.... calls itself a kit, but for £6.99 I'd imagine its just the PCB... personally I use a plugboard for prototyping and for that price I'd use a bit of stripboard, since there's no real simplification of wiring. I have a PCB design I am working on that provides headers for standard display and multiplexed keypad/switch bank, with or without telltale LEDs, 8 relay drivers (and standard i/o routines to drive it all) as i seem to keep reinventing that wheel...

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 01:07 AM
Interesting... but its not clear if the kit is just the PCB or all the necessary parts less PIC.... calls itself a kit, but for £6.99 I'd imagine its just the PCB... personally I use a plugboard for prototyping and for that price I'd use a bit of stripboard, since there's no real simplification of wiring. I have a PCB design I am working on that provides headers for standard display and multiplexed keypad/switch bank, with or without telltale LEDs, 8 relay drivers (and standard i/o routines to drive it all) as i seem to keep reinventing that wheel...


Its a kit of parts minus the 40pin chip, so they said in the e-mail. so not too bad..

Hey that wheel needs re-inventing, but just not by me, you are much more qualified to do that....

and Hey Ive got the dollar if you've got the kit!!!


Rick

irving2008
08-08-2010, 01:08 AM
Revised panel layout. (Thanks for pointing the errors out Irving)

Is this whats called, evolution...

No No its vorsprung dork technique

Ricklol

Why not use the one jog wheel for all up/down inc spindle speed?

How will you change jog rate?

You seem to have lost your 'feed' requirement. I'd use the one display to show spindle speed, axis steps and/or step rate, and selected feed speed

BTW, in case you hadn't picked up on it, the e-stop to MACH3 is just a repeater input to tell it e-stop has been activated, the e-stop itself should release a main contactor and kill all motion not relying on software.... this is normally a self latching relay

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 01:14 AM
lol

Why not use the one jog wheel for all up/down inc spindle speed?

How will you change jog rate?

You seem to have lost your 'feed' requirement. I'd use the one display to show spindle speed, axis steps and/or step rate, and selected feed speed

BTW, in case you hadn't picked up on it, the e-stop to MACH3 is just a repeater input to tell it e-stop has been activated, the e-stop itself should release a main contactor and kill all motion not relying on software.... this is normally a self latching relay

Using the contour shuttle express i have 5 buttons and a fast jog and slow jog available so the feed is not off the table just not on the layout yet..

My mental capacity is less than yours so, i only suggest things that i have some chance of achieving, you have no idea how helpfull you have been already..

Rick...or is it Fick... lol

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 01:19 AM
BTW, in case you hadn't picked up on it, the e-stop to MACH3 is just a repeater input to tell it e-stop has been activated, the e-stop itself should release a main contactor and kill all motion not relying on software.... this is normally a self latching relay

I did look at the wiring suggestions in the mach manual some time ago, but as of begining this project i hadnt given it much thought, i just knew there had to be one.

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 02:15 AM
That reminded me about inputs, so ive just had a look at the plugins page on the artsoft site and they have some neat gadgets on there, that will give you all the inputs you've ever needed not to mention outputs, Pokeys, and the TC-Emulator Board to name just two.... so if we get stuck there is light at the end of the tunnel, mind you maybe someone else has more knowlege of these gadgets and would care to enlighten us of their experiences.

Rick

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 02:22 AM
Interesting... but its not clear if the kit is just the PCB or all the necessary parts less PIC.... calls itself a kit, but for £6.99 I'd imagine its just the PCB... personally I use a plugboard for prototyping and for that price I'd use a bit of stripboard, since there's no real simplification of wiring. I have a PCB design I am working on that provides headers for standard display and multiplexed keypad/switch bank, with or without telltale LEDs, 8 relay drivers (and standard i/o routines to drive it all) as i seem to keep reinventing that wheel...

Irving, if you wanted just the blank pcb it is here under fleabay Item number:250625826321 (Good price)

Rick

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 12:54 PM
Started to get the basic wiring done.



First job was to identify the step and direction pins on the SD3 Drives using the SD3 manual. Once that had been done I fitted the transistors and resistors which addressed the fact that the SD3 drives use 12v logic and I will be using a 5v logic system.
With those two things completed, ive mounted the boards i have so far.
2584
Ive begun to wire things in..

With the help of a post by Irving I was able to wire things to the default settings in MACH.
2585.............2588
Stepper axis wiring completed!

2587

Motor speed interface to be wired between Lenze 534 and BOB

2586

Motor speed interface has its own power supply (0-27vdc LM317T based board)
** remember not to wire the output up to anything untill you have set the voltage.**
Onward..

Rick

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Whilst reading the Lenze 534 manual ive come across another requirement....

If a reverse motor direction is required a simple polarity change is required using one of the contactors, however the motor motion must stop before the reverse direction is activated, I will need to incorperate a timer to allow for the motor to come to a standstill before the reverse is activated, I can tune the time once I know how long that takes, I could also introduce electrodynamic braking to reduce the changeover time, I will have to investigate all that before I complete a reverse control but that will be a secondary to getting it moving in a forward direction first...

Rick

John S
08-08-2010, 01:27 PM
Don't bother,
Use a M04 P 2.0 command in your speed change code inside Mach after the M05 or M01 commands.
this will stop the motor, wait two seconds then carry on with the code.

It can be hard coded into the post processor so it's there but out of mind.

Also pays to use the same command after the M03 start up to give the motor chance to spool up before any cutting takes place.

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 01:30 PM
Don't bother,
Use a M04 P 2.0 command in your speed change code inside Mach after the M05 or M01 commands.
this will stop the motor, wait two seconds then carry on with the code.

It can be hard coded into the post processor so it's there but out of mind.

Also pays to use the same command after the M03 start up to give the motor chance to spool up before any cutting takes place.

Ahh yes but that wont help when im not using Mach
but thanks for the post processor hint, done and forgotten is what i like :)

irving2008
08-08-2010, 01:56 PM
Whilst reading the Lenze 534 manual ive come across another requirement....

If a reverse motor direction is required a simple polarity change is required using one of the contactors, however the motor motion must stop before the reverse direction is activated, I will need to incorperate a timer to allow for the motor to come to a standstill before the reverse is activated, I can tune the time once I know how long that takes, I could also introduce electrodynamic braking to reduce the changeover time, I will have to investigate all that before I complete a reverse control but that will be a secondary to getting it moving in a forward direction first...

Rick
Other than CNC controlled tapping, why would you want to change spindle direction? My mill's cutter always rotates in the same direction, there is no reversing facility as standard, probably becuase every cutter I have ever seen (and I know thats not many) cuts in the sme direction. Granted I will be able to reverse the motor from the (yet to be fitted) VFD, but I feel there is an inherent risk in being able to reverse the spindle direction without some interlock.

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 02:12 PM
Other than CNC controlled tapping, why would you want to change spindle direction? My mill's cutter always rotates in the same direction, there is no reversing facility as standard, probably becuase every cutter I have ever seen (and I know thats not many) cuts in the sme direction. Granted I will be able to reverse the motor from the (yet to be fitted) VFD, but I feel there is an inherent risk in being able to reverse the spindle direction without some interlock.


As i said the reverse will be a secondary consideration, and an interlock as you state would be the safe way to go, but i Will be considering it, as it is something that the original control panel had.
When I got the machine the computer side of things had a few problems. To be able to fire up the machine and test ALL.. the functions was what sold it to me, I liked the fact i could just get it home and start milling. Without some sort of manual control I would have been taking a real big chance with quite a lot of money im sure you will agree.. and although I suspect as you have suggested this may be a function that i will not often use, the fact that the Z axis can be tilted through 90deg means I am more likely to use that function with the head tilted.

The real fact of the matter is that I wish to retain all of the functionality of the original machine so it is something I have to consider, and may be of use to someone else, should I ever sell the machine (not likely, but still), not to mention the fact that other people reading this thread may find the reverse interlock system usefull.

Rick

Ross77
08-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Hi Rick
Only just seen this and dont know if your still looking but the plastic your after is also used for scratch plates on guitars etc. Search "3 ply scratch plate"

or look here http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/vmchk/Plastic-Sheet/View-all-products.html

Ricardoco
08-08-2010, 04:22 PM
Hi Rick
Only just seen this and dont know if your still looking but the plastic your after is also used for scratch plates on guitars etc. Search "3 ply scratch plate"

or look here http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/vmchk/Plastic-Sheet/View-all-products.html

Jackpot!!! £30 spent Ross you are a star... and im sure i will use them again as there are some good bits on there..

Thanks

Rick

Ricardoco
09-08-2010, 04:28 PM
Ok Im now waiting for the postman again, Ive spent the rent and purchased a few bits Ahhhhemmm well although they are not all for this project they are all things I wanted to buy and I suppose they are related and could be used for this project if required..

The List...

3 x 460mm X 300mm Three layer (black-white-black) Sheet
Pokeys55t Keyboard Emulator/Simulator.
20x4 LCD display module HD44780 Blue LED Backlight *UK
CONNECTOR, 20 Way IDC Socket...Lot of 5
CONNECTOR, 34 Way IDC Socket...Lot of 5
34 Way IDC Right Angle latched Box Header PCB x10
20Way IDC Straight latched Box Header Connector PCB x10
100 x 330 Ohm 0.25w Carbon Resistors 1/4w Resistor 330R
100 x 4k7 Ohm 0.25w Carbon Resistors 1/4w Resistor 4k7R
Brand New 555 Astable Timer Project Kit IN UK
RKP18Relay8 8 x Kam Ling SPDT Relay PCB for PIC® MCU
RK L298 H-Bridge PCB for DC Motor Control with L298 IC
RKPT40 Project Kit for PIC® Micrcontrollers Self Build
RKP40C Compact Project Self Build Kit for PIC MCUs
top853 USB universal programmer EPROM MCU GAL PIC
10nF 0.01uF Ceramic Capacitors Pack of 50____cc10n
10 x 2N3904 NPN Transistor
Step Cone Drill Bit Hole Cutter 4-12mm 4-20mm & 4-32mm
6 x FINDER 2 Pole CO 10A Din Mount Mini Power Relay 24VAC
5 x Microchip PIC16F877A 16F877 + Free HOLDER
5 x Vero style stripboard strip board 72 x 47mm 371Hole
Slotted Opto Switch H22A1 Qty. 2 NOS
74HC390 Integrated Circuit x 5 pieces
DIGITAL RED LED PANEL FREQUENCY SPEED METER TACHOMETER


Phew

I so hate waiting


Grrrrrr

Just my luck all the bits not specifically for this project will turn up first...

Update as and when the stuff arrives

Rick

GeorgeD
09-08-2010, 07:15 PM
You're like me Rick,I like collectin stuff as well. lol

Ricardoco
09-08-2010, 07:21 PM
Well you got to buy when you got the money cos its hard when you aint!! its stuff i know I will use, and the missus has trouble spending resistors lol

Rick

i2i
09-08-2010, 07:44 PM
i was going to mention "Rapid" for the electronic bits, but i see you've already spent.:smile:

GeorgeD
09-08-2010, 08:02 PM
I got a local components stockist by me but most of the time shop here....
http://www.dalbani.co.uk/index.php

Ricardoco
09-08-2010, 08:51 PM
No real local supplies to me, there used to be a real nice unit on an industrial estate near me, you know a "REAL NICE" unit they did the stuff you could only dream of all the obscure stuff and if he didnt have it, he could get it, been in the buisness since valves and one day i went for a rummage, and the guy in the unit next door came out and said "Hey mate that old geeza snuffed it about 3 months ago, its a shame you didnt come a fortnight ago.. they skipped the lot!!!...:surprised: 6 bloody skips full :eek: " well lets just say i was very unhappy..:cry: Can you imagine how many electronics components it must take to fill 6 skips!!!!!!!!!!

so fleabay is the place I visit first Because im a bit lazy where stuf like that is concerned...:whistling::redface:

irving2008
10-08-2010, 01:17 AM
Farnell is still my supplier of choice now I have got over the £20 min order, still most price competitive... then RS, Cricklewood Electronics, Rapid, Digikey

GeorgeD
11-08-2010, 01:22 AM
Nice Tacho circuit here,Rick.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xbot.es%2Fmicroplans%2Ftacometr o.htm&sl=es&tl=en

Ricardoco
11-08-2010, 07:07 PM
Hey George, thanks for that, an interesting circuit, now added to my link list...

Rick

i2i
11-08-2010, 07:41 PM
Rick, i thought of you today as i removed a front panel from a boxford 240 lathe, all those lovely switches never to be used again......:wink::tongue:lol

irving2008
11-08-2010, 07:47 PM
Rick, despite having a handheld tacho, you've made me feel I am missing something if I don't have one on the minilathe now! grrrrr lol

All those circuits using a PIC are fine but you note how there's never any source code to download or firmware to burn... so watch this space...

GeorgeD
11-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Forgot to post the email addy for that tacho,Rick...dunno if he read Enlish mind? lol

http://www.xbot.es/microplans/

i2i
11-08-2010, 11:48 PM
george, do you fine that your computer misses a lot of letters out when typing, i had that trouble with my comp until i got a good quality kybrd.:heehee:

GeorgeD
12-08-2010, 12:15 AM
Funny you should say that,eye2eye...so does mine :rolleyes:

Must stop drinking my tea over it.

Yeah I need a new kebord

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 12:19 AM
Rick, despite having a handheld tacho, you've made me feel I am missing something if I don't have one on the minilathe now! grrrrr lol...

Well ive stated my reasons for wanting one and to be fair MACH does have the facility, However as i said mach says spindle go at 3000rpm, but there is no way of you knowing if the motor has obeyed this command, this could be a too higher feed rate lowering the spindle rpm, i just thought it would be nice for me to be able to see if the spindle was doing as it was told and maybe in the future incorperating a feature that lowered the feed rate to keep the rpm of the spindle at its desired speed, that is why i wanted feed rate control as well....



All those circuits using a PIC are fine but you note how there's never any source code to download or firmware to burn... so watch this space...


I WILL BE WATCHING, BE ASSURED OF THAT lol

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 12:22 AM
Rick, i thought of you today as i removed a front panel from a boxford 240 lathe, all those lovely switches never to be used again......:wink::tongue:lol


lol Well mine will look nicer!!!! all those pretty buttons, when my friends come around how complicated will that look.... (anyone can operate a pc my friends think) but this looks like rocket science to them.... lol ......:wink::tongue:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 12:27 AM
Forgot to post the email addy for that tacho,Rick...dunno if he read Enlish mind? lol

http://www.xbot.es/microplans/


Cheers George, the way i see it, even if i dont use the design it may be very usefull to other members should they wish to investigate the tacho question...thats what forums are about.. for a group of people to pool thair resources and help each other out to achieve similar goals and have a bit of a laugh and share friendships and experiences along the way.......so thats why i say "Im In!!"


Rick

irving2008
12-08-2010, 12:47 AM
lol Well mine will look nicer!!!! all those pretty buttons, when my friends come around how complicated will that look.... (anyone can operate a pc my friends think) but this looks like rocket science to them.... lol ......:wink::tongue:

A machine without flashing lights is .....




boring... lol

i2i
12-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Funny you should say that,eye2eye...so does mine :rolleyes:

Must stop drinking my tea over it.

Yeah I need a new kebordi tried several new keyboards until i came across this Dell keyboard which (touch wood) has cured the missing letters completely.

i2i
12-08-2010, 10:51 AM
A machine without flashing lights is .....




boring... lollol.....a machine with flashing lights is illumination, nothing more.:surprised:
You see the point i'm making is, when i press cycle start and walk away i don't care how many lights are flashing, or tacho's are counting.:sad:

The machine is working, and the sweet music i hear, is metal being removed.lol

CNC does not mean "cuddle not cut":twisted:

:tongue:

cooliced
12-08-2010, 11:23 AM
CNC does not mean "cuddle not cut":twisted:

:tongue:

lol that did make me laugh

GeorgeD
12-08-2010, 11:57 AM
....a machine with flashing lights is illumination, nothing more.:surprised:Hahbut...if a man with just a saw and a hammer walks on site he'd look like a cowboy....give the same man a hardhat and a toolbag and he'll look like a proffesional. :whistling:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 01:25 PM
You see the point i'm making is, when i press cycle start and walk away i don't care how many lights are flashing, or tacho's are counting. The machine is working, and the sweet music i hear, is metal being removed.lol :

Twang!!!! squeel!!! screach!!! i2i runs back to the machine, the expensive part in the machine has a big gouge out of it....Oh no...lol.


.....Somewhere else in the world Rick notices that the spindle is not spinning as fast as it should be, a quick glance at the g-code shows mach is trying to cut too much material in the first pass, on closer examination the cutter is lower in the holder than it should be, it wouldnt have mattered much anyhow as the little enhancement passes the spindle speed back to mach and this alters the cut rate so when he walked away the expensive part would have been safe. :smile:




CNC does not mean "cuddle not cut":twisted: :tongue:


CNC also does not mean "computerised not controllable"

However i can see this debate and its anacronims going on for some time..
so I just say "que sera sera"

Rick..

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Hey look at my avatar. lol Just for you i2i...

i2i
12-08-2010, 03:20 PM
lovely avatar, does it control your keyboard.:heehee:


While i'm away from the machine everything cuts perfectly because it's computer numerically controlled. Mach3 does exactly what i tell it to do everytime i want it to, that's the trick when it's programmed.
But heaven forbid something would fail, as it makes no difference whether you have a tacho, a button for every controllable action and a light to show everything, you wont be there to do anything about it, unless of course you sit there and watch.:confused:

The only usefull thing on the front panel is the E-STOP:smile:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 04:22 PM
Hey C'mon that is a cool avatar!! i made that just to make you smile lol..

i2i
12-08-2010, 04:28 PM
it did make me smile.

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 04:50 PM
it did make me smile.

As you've been such a help to me and a good sport over this subject, i thought it only fair i do something for you..:naughty:

Please see attached layout for you're information
It took me ages to design this with you in mind. :twisted:

2618

:rofl::smile:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 05:02 PM
On a more serious note i2i, do you know what sort of temperature are these SD3 drivers heatsinks supposed to sit at when not doing anything??

i2i
12-08-2010, 05:10 PM
they do run fairly hot, you should be able to touch the heatsink. If you're worried you could put a fan in there, some boxfords have a fan as standard.

Just think you could have a temperature controlled fan with a tacho and an led that gets brighter the faster the fan goes, and a digital thermometer for each drive. It'll be like christmas at Blackpool.

PS. i prefer the e-stop at the top.:smile:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 05:22 PM
they do run fairly hot, you should be able to touch the heatsink. If you're worried you could put a fan in there, some boxfords have a fan as standard.

Just think you could have a temperature controlled fan with a tacho and an led that gets brighter the faster the fan goes, and a digital thermometer for each drive. It'll be like christmas at Blackpool.

PS. i prefer the e-stop at the top.:smile:

Its funny you should say that, here is a little gadget i got to controll the speed of my dc fans related to ambient enclosure temperature... based on the input from some carefully placed sensors. :smile:
2619

I put the E-Stop at the bottom so you could use your hip to activate if your hands were out of action. lol:rofl:

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Well i've recieved quite a lot of bits today so i will begin the sensor tomorrow but i will hold on in completing the tacho circuit in the hope that someone comes up with a closed loop design....and.....que irving lol

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php?2149-The-ultimate-rev-counter-thread...

dum tee dum tee dum....

Rick

GeorgeD
13-08-2010, 11:41 AM
Hey,Rick

Unit here for £22...thatll do nicely for my lathe sir. :dance:
http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Tachometer

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Hey,Rick

Unit here for £22...thatll do nicely for my lathe sir. :dance:
http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=Tachometer

Now thats nice, Thank you, thats another link for the list lol

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Ok fitted BOB today, all axis move in one direction only!!! but sound rough and move very slowly so a bit of sherlock is required (par for the course, how much is simple nowadays)....


Rick

GeorgeD
13-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Check for voltage at Dir +&- also pulse? on BOB inputs

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Check for voltage at Dir +&- also pulse? on BOB inputs

Well it is an opto isolated board with LED's on all outputs so i know it is getting pulse direction info but im on case!!!

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 02:51 PM
LOL how stupid can one get....derrrrr forgot to connect GND on BOB. All Axis now work both step and direction!!! im off to play for a while and tune the motors :)

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Ok im going mad,, will someone take a look at these two items and tell me how they interface and how they connect to the bob please ive tried for two hours and when it gets to that my experience tell me im doing something wrong...

there are only three connections to the lenze 534 to the speed interface and although it only shows 1 connection to the breakout board there is also an rtn connection.....:confused:

Lenze534 vfd
2627

pins 7,8,9 are for the speed control using a 10klin pot or circuit below

cncdoctor speed controler
2626

irving2008
13-08-2010, 07:46 PM
Ok im going mad,, will someone take a look at these two items and tell me how they interface and how they connect to the bob please ive tried for two hours and when it gets to that my experience tell me im doing something wrong...

there are only three connections to the lenze 534 to the speed interface and although it only shows 1 connection to the breakout board there is also an rtn connection.....:confused:

Lenze534 vfd
2627

cncdoctor speed controler
2626

0-10v on speedcontroller TB2 to pin 8 on Lenze
0v on speed controller TB2 to pin 7 on Lenze
+ve on speed controller TB2 not connected


STEP on speedcontroller TB1 to BOB Output (typically pin 8)
RTN on speedcontroller TB1 to BOB Ground associated with the chosen output

Do NOT share the grounds... they may not be the same ground level...

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 07:48 PM
Thanks irving, did you know what the rtn connection on the speed control to bob is..

irving2008
13-08-2010, 07:54 PM
RTN = return

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 07:57 PM
RTN = return

lol ok so is it supposed to be conected anywhere? ive connected the step to pin 8 on the bob is that the only connection to the speed control board...(i suppose i asked for that lol)

irving2008
13-08-2010, 07:59 PM
see my post above... connected to BOB ground alongside pin 8

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 09:21 PM
see my post above... connected to BOB ground alongside pin 8

Thanks Irving, its working now, had to connect the rtn to chassis ground... Next job is put together the TACHO!!! this is just a temporary one as im going to give cash to this person who is designing "The Ultimate Rev Counter"!!:naughty:




Rick

irving2008
13-08-2010, 11:14 PM
Thanks Irving, its working now, had to connect the rtn to chassis ground... That suggests a ground fault... is your BOB optoisolated?



Next job is put together the TACHO!!! this is just a temporary one as im going to give cash to this person who is designing "The Ultimate Rev Counter"!!:naughty:Lets just see if we can get the project off the ground first.... so many toys to play with, so little time to do so....

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 11:46 PM
That suggests a ground fault... is your BOB optoisolated?
....

Yes it is, its the one from cncdoctor co uk


Lets just see if we can get the project off the ground first.... so many toys to play with, so little time to do so....

Hey ive got the simple one, thats fine, im willing to wait, ive lots of toys to be getting on with too lol

irving2008
14-08-2010, 12:08 AM
Yes it is, its the one from cncdoctor co uk

Ah... which position have you got J1 in... are your commons +5v or ground? If you have the commons at +5v then RTN needs to be connected to the -ve (ground) side terminal of the power supply input for the BOB, rather than a general chassis ground...

Ricardoco
14-08-2010, 12:18 AM
Ah... which position have you got J1 in... are your commons +5v or ground? If you have the commons at +5v then RTN needs to be connected to the -ve (ground) side terminal of the power supply input for the BOB, rather than a general chassis ground...

I will check in the morning, out of interest does the gnd pin on the BOB go to ground..lol

irving2008
14-08-2010, 12:34 AM
depends.... the whole point about an optoisolated board is that it should seperate PC ground (the shell of the D-type and the PC case) from the CNC ground. In most cases they will be at the same potential... but equally they could be several volts apart (for instance if the PC was powered from a different phase of a 3phase feed... not uncommon in factories that derive their 240 from the 3-phase coming in).

The point is, what do you mean by ground? the PC ground or the CNC ground? In this instance the 'common' rail for pins 2 - 9 on the BOB output can either be +5v or 'ground', which is 'CNC_ground' and is the same potential as the -ve side of the external supply to the BOB. Chassis ground could well be PC ground, depending on how the BOB is installed, so if the common rail is not 'CNC_ground' you need to take RTN back to the -ve side of the supply to the BOB and not to chassis ground.

Ricardoco
14-08-2010, 12:42 AM
depends.... the whole point about an optoisolated board is that it should seperate PC ground (the shell of the D-type and the PC case) from the CNC ground. In most cases they will be at the same potential... but equally they could be several volts apart (for instance if the PC was powered from a different phase of a 3phase feed... not uncommon in factories that derive their 240 from the 3-phase coming in).

The point is, what do you mean by ground? the PC ground or the CNC ground? In this instance the 'common' rail for pins 2 - 9 on the BOB output can either be +5v or 'ground', which is 'CNC_ground' and is the same potential as the -ve side of the external supply to the BOB. Chassis ground could well be PC ground, depending on how the BOB is installed, so if the common rail is not 'CNC_ground' you need to take RTN back to the -ve side of the supply to the BOB and not to chassis ground.

I think this stems from the fact that the rack system that holds the drivers has the 0v tied to the case, when using the digiplan mod the diagram shows the bob gnd 14,15 connected to the 0v of the driver board... does that sound like the problem...

GeorgeD
14-08-2010, 12:22 PM
Here the hex code firmware for that PIC chip

http://www.jeffree.co.uk/revmaster/revmaster-firmware.zip

Ricardoco
14-08-2010, 01:15 PM
Cheers George :)

Ricardoco
15-08-2010, 01:41 AM
Ok then... Im ready.
2636


:confused:

This is my basic interlock for the spindle direction change, ive stared at it for some time so i dont think there are any mistakes lol....I hope..

Ricardoco
15-08-2010, 12:06 PM
There is no brake resistor in this circuit but i dont think it will need it... the stop time from 3500rpm to 0rpm at the motor spindle is less than 2 seconds..

GeorgeD
15-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Any light at the end of the tunnel yet?

Ricardoco
15-08-2010, 03:18 PM
Any light at the end of the tunnel yet?

Oh yes All axis installed and working perfectly with mach, spindle working with mach speed control (how much fun was that lol) just installed E-Stop Circuit, and spindle start switich and contactor, now about to start on the Fwd-Rev contactor, and then on to spindle start, fwd-rev relays with mach control, at the moment it is a manual start button for the spindle start
and direction.

Onward!!!

on a side note ive almost finished my chineese tacho as a stand in untill something better comes along lol

Ricardoco
15-08-2010, 05:20 PM
With the spindle control done, Ive decided to tackle the Limit switches... there are proximity switches present on the machine of the type below:-
2637

these were again connected to the old main logic board now thats gone does anybody recognise this type of switch, i know i could change them for micro switches but as they are going to be used for limit rather than Home switches i would like to utilise them if i could...So any ideas???

Label says 36vdc 200ma BN=L+, BK=OUT, BN=L-.

GeorgeD
17-08-2010, 11:07 AM
They could be Reed switches,Rick?

irving2008
17-08-2010, 01:14 PM
I doubt it, a reed switch wouldnt need a 36v supply. These are active devices.

Rick, is there a magnet or something to activate them? Or are they just activated by the table?

irving2008
17-08-2010, 01:22 PM
OK answered my own question... they are inductive proximity switches (http://www.zonzen.com/proximity-sensor-LMF5.html), easy to use with your opto-isolated inputs, just need to work out which polarity they are... is there a part # on them?

i2i
17-08-2010, 04:19 PM
IS5003

IS-5003-ANOG

10 - 36vdc

made by ifm electronics

http://ifm.com/ifmgb/web/dsfs!IS5003.html


There is a gap in the slide to detect position

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 04:44 PM
I thought you would know i2i lol , well while the site was down I managed to track down a data sheet and now these proximity switches are operational with a nice little relay board, I think they were used as home switches in the original design as they only operate at one end of each axis only, I understand this is not the best way to go as the repeatability is not good, so im going to get the drill out at sometime and drill the recesses at the other end of the axises and use them as limit switches.
Ive still not got out and completed fitting the tacho yet, although Ive got all the bits as i had to take a break and goto work, yuk! yuk! yuk!.

Rick

i2i
17-08-2010, 04:47 PM
You're right they are used as home switches, and i suppose as long as the area is kept clean they would be ok for the job.

Do you have a schematic for the relay add on.

Looking at the data sheet it looks like it will drive a small relay direct, or even switch an input to ground.

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:04 PM
on the x axis there is a gap at either end, but i'm not sure on the other axis.

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 05:30 PM
You're right they are used as home switches, and i suppose as long as the area is kept clean they would be ok for the job. .


Well when its running i will do some tests and see just how accurate they really are.


Do you have a schematic for the relay add on.

Looking at the data sheet it looks like it will drive a small relay direct, or even switch an input to ground.


Well its not really A wiring diagram but i think you will understand it:-

2662

Rick

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:33 PM
Well when its running i will do some tests and see just how accurate they really are.




Well its not really A wiring diagram but i think you will understand it:-

2662

RickI'm wondering if the BU wire could be used to directly take a mach input low, or keep it low until the gap appears. If you get chance give it a go.

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:35 PM
on a bit of a side note, i picked up a soft ended r8 arbour today to test out the auto changer.

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:36 PM
As soon as i get round to converting my 3hp boxford 240 tcl, i'll get onto turning it.

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm wondering if the BU wire could be used to directly take a mach input low, or keep it low until the gap appears. If you get chance give it a go.

I did consider this but i was looking at the boxford covered up in the garden pooring with rain and decided i wanted to do something and i just decided i had a 5 relay board and small 12v powersupply so i did it, it may be overkill but at least with the relay design i can utilise the sensors output without a PC fullfilling my manual control Obsession!!! lol

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:51 PM
I did consider this but i was looking at the boxford covered up in the garden pooring with rain and decided i wanted to do something and i just decided i had a 5 relay board and small 12v powersupply so i did it, it may be overkill but at least with the relay design i can utilise the sensors output without a PC fullfilling my manual control Obsession!!! lollol


lol:naughty::smile:

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 05:52 PM
on a bit of a side note, i picked up a soft ended r8 arbour today to test out the auto changer.

Im so gutted because i dont have an R8 taper, See below

2664 2663

Ive no idea what that taper is :cry:

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:55 PM
have you pulled that out of another holder that's in your spindle, as it looks just like the colchester easy change holder from a 30 int holder. Or does that go straight into the spindle.

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:56 PM
there should be a cap head screw that goes through the centre of your easychange holder. Or does the spindle bolt screw into the top of the easy change

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 06:00 PM
LOL nope the spindle has an M12 (I think) thread in the top & Holds the sprocket on, that goes all the way through and as you may know the easy change has an m12 hex bolt that goes up inside it...

Ricardoco
17-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Here is a quick drawing i knocked up just to give you an idea:-
2666

Ill give you a buz in a moment.

Rick

i2i
17-08-2010, 06:29 PM
just had a nose back through the pics, and it looks like the spindle is designed to take the coventry easychange collet, rather than an R8 or int.

i2i
18-08-2010, 02:17 AM
Give me a quick ring, as i think you have a int spindle there.

MHJ
18-08-2010, 07:59 AM
Hello.

I have a 260VMC converted to run on Mach3, so I thought I'd add a bit to your thread...
They are a good machine within their limited capabilities, I've cut aluminium, brass, PB and hardwood on mine. When I get coolant fitted to it I'll be having a go on some steel, so if any other readers have a 260 fitted with coolant I would like to know where the tank went and so on.
The facility to swing the head round 90 degrees makes it a horizontal borer, a shame that there is no way of clamping the head at some intermediate angle (future project?)
I've had no problems with the existing proximity home switches, their repeatability is not an issue on my machine. The Z axis is controlled by a drilling (dimple) near the top of the column. As to the spindle taper I can't help you, because I've never had the easychange chuck off. From your photos it could be a modified INT 30 without the driving slots/keys or a shortened MT3....some measurements would throw more light on that issue. Is the disappointment about it not being R8 because you have a heap of R8 stuff? Collet chucks and so forth? Well, with the Z to the top, there is barely room to get an R8 collet chuck up the spindle from the top of the table without a tool in it and then of course there is no spindle lock so it would be impossible to tighten the collet nut. What I had to do was bite the bullet and BUY (not a nice word in a Yorkshire Lad's lexicon) an easychange ER25 collet chuck and a set of collets.
My tool carousel is lurking at the back of the workshop somewhere as I saw no good reason to keep it, if the user can't pick the correct tool in its holder from the cupboard under the machine when the software is yelling for a toolchange, then he shouldn't be driving it IMO. And anyway I wanted somewhere to park the monitor.
To digress a little, I'm in the latter stages of converting a Denford Easiturn3 to run with Mach3 and I required more inputs than your average BOB has, so 2 parallel ports and 2 of Peter Homanns MB-02 V6 BOBS filled the bill, the 1st BOB is normally jumpered (5 inputs) but the 2nd BOB is jumpered to give inputs on pins 2 to 9 as well as the usual 5, giving me a grand total of 18 inputs. As and when I get round to it I'll be having an MB-06 in the 260VMC and another stepper driver to run the 4th axis (under construction), and have the jog buttons on the front panel working again. This seemed easier to me than PICs or Modbus, being a humble MechEng, not a programmer.
Get yourself some 1/2" x 6" aluminium, drill and tap M6 holes on say a 20x20 matrix for a "sacrificial" fixture plate, surface or flycut both sides on your machine, add dowels underneath to drop into the T slots, then beg, borrow make or buy a verticality detector AKA a spindle square and check the column to table. Mine is a few thou out on the Z (another job on a long list) but was easily adjusted along the X axis. If you do have a crash into the plate it can always be surfaced again, which is better than looking at a part-pocket in your table. Not mine, fortunately, but I know where there is one.....
Elsewhere on this forum someone mentioned X+, X- Y+, Y- etc travel directions. If these appear to be wrong they can be reversed in Mach3, its in the config menu, under "Home/Limits", first column.
Link: Peter Homann homanndesigns.com/store/index.php
Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to the next installment !
Regards,
John
In North Notts.

i2i
18-08-2010, 10:53 AM
From the details and a quick chat it seems that the spindle has been made specifically for the easychange toolholder, without the normal r8 or 30 int holder.

Ricardoco
18-08-2010, 03:45 PM
As to the spindle taper I can't help you, because I've never had the easychange chuck off. From your photos it could be a modified INT 30 without the driving slots/keys or a shortened MT3....some measurements would throw more light on that issue. Is the disappointment about it not being R8 because you have a heap of R8 stuff? Collet chucks and so forth? .


Well as stated by i2i in the post above, the actual easy change chuck and spindle, after investigation seems to have the same taper as one of the easy change tool holders, I had wanted to go down the R8 tooling route as there is so much R8 tooling out there at such a reasonable price. as it turns out my plans for the future of the 'Z' Axis fit quite nicely with the existing taper, in fact im very happy as i intend to fit an ATC and the spindle fits nicely with that but that will be in another chapter!!



Elsewhere on this forum someone mentioned X+, X- Y+, Y- etc travel directions. If these appear to be wrong they can be reversed in Mach3, its in the config menu, under "Home/Limits", first column..

I have tried to keep the machine in line with the defualt settings in mach and as such i have and will alter the machine rather than the software to keep in line with the default settings.. but thats just me.

Thanks for posting some interesting points and suggestions, and please post again, im sure i speak for everyone when i say the more information out of the brain and on the forum the better.

Rick

Ricardoco
19-08-2010, 05:12 PM
OK ive got an hour or so before i have to go to work so i decided to have a look at this tach setup, the 22 sensor i have used is obviously working as i get numbers on the display but they are all over the place, so i decided to investigate the existing sensor that is on the spindle, this is an rs 306-061, there are two types of this sensor, mine is the slotted type, my uestion is can i use this with the divider circuit i got from irving...(posted earlier in this thread??) or indeed if irving is around what does he think..

Rick

Ricardoco
19-08-2010, 05:22 PM
This is the divider Circuit to save searching.
2684

And here is the link to the RS sensor

midas.herts.ac.uk/Datasheets/opto/optoswitch.pdf

Rick

i2i
19-08-2010, 06:24 PM
why don't you just make a disc with one slot, and swap it for the existing one.

Ricardoco
19-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Im fast leaning in that direction, i may just wait and buy the tachulator, its off the shelf, programmable, it comes with the sensor, and it has good reviews, I did'nt want to go down the build your own route as ive done all this PCB DIY before it drives me nuts but at least i had a go. the thing is i dont enough hours in the day as it is. Having built the circuit got the display and the sensor now comes all the tinering about, it really would have been quicker and less hastle to just buy one lol. but i really do believe in buying within the UK if possible..

Ricardoco
20-08-2010, 03:54 PM
On a side note i2i i think you may have converted one of these machines before, Do you know where i start to calibrate (if that is the term) the machine with mach EG so 10mm in mach is 10mm on the axis..

i2i
20-08-2010, 04:47 PM
It may be different for you as you've got different stepper drivers in your machine. But the jist of it is, set it to mm, set the step and direction pins for each axis and enable the axis, got to motor tuning and set the steps to 200, the velocity to 1500, and the acceleration to 50, for x y and z, making sure you save tha axis settings each time. You'll need to set the step pulse length to 5ms, and you'll only need to do that once.

Ricardoco
20-08-2010, 06:51 PM
It may be different for you as you've got different stepper drivers in your machine. But the jist of it is, set it to mm, set the step and direction pins for each axis and enable the axis, got to motor tuning and set the steps to 200, the velocity to 1500, and the acceleration to 50, for x y and z, making sure you save tha axis settings each time. You'll need to set the step pulse length to 5ms, and you'll only need to do that once.


I did all that at the begining, Sorry I made a hash of that question... What i was trying to say is, what do i need to do to make the amount of travel in say the x axis 10mm on the bed and 10mm in mach, so if i tell mach to move the x axis 10mm it moves 10mm as opposed to say 12mm for example? .... there, clear as mud lol

i2i
20-08-2010, 07:12 PM
ok what are the steps set at in motor tuning, and what exactly do you get if you move it 10mm by mach

Ricardoco
20-08-2010, 07:20 PM
ok what are the steps set at in motor tuning, and what exactly do you get if you move it 10mm by mach

LOL im not getting this am i lol Ok I thought i had to set the screw spec so mach knew how far 1 rev of the stepper would cause the bed to travel, I wanted to know how i find this information to put into mach lol, sorry im between shifts at the moment so ive had a night shift and no sleep till tonight so I can reset my body clock while im off work.


Rick

i2i
20-08-2010, 07:30 PM
there is a way to do it automatically in mach, you enter the pitch and steps and gearing and it works it out for you, but it should be 200 steps. Try it on 200 steps, it's easy to change when you know how much it's out.

i2i
20-08-2010, 07:33 PM
go to the settings page, and it's in the lower left corner

"set steps per unit

Ricardoco
20-08-2010, 07:48 PM
there is a way to do it automatically in mach, you enter the pitch and steps and gearing and it works it out for you, but it should be 200 steps. Try it on 200 steps, it's easy to change when you know how much it's out.

Ah ok, well I will get out in the yard and uncover it as soon as I get 5 mins

i2i
20-08-2010, 07:51 PM
i'm sure i set the last one at 200 steps in motor tuning.