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cooliced
10-08-2010, 08:59 PM
So,

I managed to pick the TCL 125 from a mate, who didnt have the time for it.

Its retro fitted (to an extent) with two gecko drrives for the X-Z axis, 24v DC Power supply, C1G parallel board from CNC4PC.

and the spindle drive doesnt work lol

here are some pics of the current setup.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/cf4532a0.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/f297e5f9.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/7d44e573.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/b8596a09.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/802888bb.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/9ed36494.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/22a45ab3.jpg

Today i was just playing around with Mach3, to get the Z and X working ok.

Few problems tho:

The motors are getting really hot, as in like hot to touch? possibly too much voltage running through them?

Secondly, i couldnt get the movement of the z or x to be as precise as i would like, 1mm on Mach3 was like 0.05mm or something.

Thirdly, I really wanna get this spindle motor working but i think the gemini board is broken, so im looking for a (not exspensive) option for this

i2i
10-08-2010, 10:04 PM
have the two caps C1 and C2 phyiscally burst on the gemini board, if so replace them with a modern equivalent. 0.1uf 400v.

cooliced
10-08-2010, 10:57 PM
Ah sweet, everything with the spindle seems to be wired up correctly, but when i push the buttons on the black switching thing, nothing happens, also its not reading any voltage across A+ or A-.

John S
10-08-2010, 11:47 PM
The Geckos don't look to have any resistors across the last two terminals, in which case they will be feeding 7 amps into the motors.
read the legend on the case for values.

Have you got a close up of the orange terminal strip on the Gemini board?

.

cooliced
10-08-2010, 11:59 PM
im gonna put in the resistors tomorrow, not sure what one to use yet.

I have a full wiring diagram of the whole original setup i uploaded

Stu

p.s. i can get a close up

cooliced
11-08-2010, 12:03 AM
p.s. the only one on the GEC Gemini board i dont have wired up is, pin 2 that goes to Analog Out on the microprocessor

John S
11-08-2010, 12:32 AM
Looks like 9 connects to 3 to bypass the guard switches ?

Try feeding pin 2 from a 9v battery with the other end going to pins 7/8/10 to give it a signal.

can someone else check these terminals as well ?

i2i
11-08-2010, 01:47 AM
To start the spindle you have to hold the fwd or rev button down for a few seconds, first you will hear the contactor close and after about a second the spindle will start. You then remove your finger from the button to set the speed.

cooliced
11-08-2010, 12:43 PM
i2i, Is that on the manual button board on the front, if so, yeah thats not connected at all, just there for decor lol

Ive got 18k resistors on the Gecko drives now and it seems to be keeping the temp of the steppers now, might go to 32k for 3Amps, see how it goes.

im just about to try the 9v battery thing that was suggested for the spindle. fingers crossed

Stu

i2i
11-08-2010, 12:55 PM
i2i, Is that on the manual button board on the front, if so, yeah thats not connected at all, just there for decor lol

ok, you'll need to energise each contactor for fwd or rev and the connections are on the side of the contactor. Normally the left conection is fwd and the right rev, and then you'll need to feed the gemini with an isolated 0-10v supply.

cooliced
11-08-2010, 01:11 PM
So i put the 9v battery on to Pin 2 and Pin 7(earth) as suggested, then pressed the one of the buttons on the switcher, then spindle starteded but got faster and faster until i took my finger off, didnt want it going mega fast so wimped out lol

Z and X are nice and warm, not hot now, so might stick with 18k resistors for now

John S
11-08-2010, 02:34 PM
So now you know it works try a 1.5 volt battery.

cooliced
11-08-2010, 04:16 PM
Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

Tried two AA batteries giving 3v and again worked, not as fast so i will try just one like John S Suggests.

Just need to work out how i can get this button to be pressed Via the PC.

Thanks again

John S
11-08-2010, 05:04 PM
Just need to work out how i can get this button to be pressed Via the PC.

Thanks again


Use a breakout board with a relay on it, or if you already have a BoB then an add on relay card

i2i
11-08-2010, 06:03 PM
the contactor on my boxford 240tcl has a 240v coil, so be carefull around it.

Looking at the 125 schematic, it's 240v as well.

cooliced
11-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Yeah I'm not happy about pressing the contactor myself.

John S
11-08-2010, 08:01 PM
get the missus to do it.

.

cooliced
11-08-2010, 08:23 PM
So wanting to keep with the "not overly exspensive" side of things,

ive seen this

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=46

Think it should be fine for the 125

She has already stated the lathe is far too noisy hahaha, unlucky!

irving2008
11-08-2010, 11:03 PM
whats wrong with a Uniport (http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/uniport.html)or an optoport (http://www.diycnc.co.uk/html/oppb.html)? cheaper and UK based...

i2i
11-08-2010, 11:45 PM
make your own, you can have as many relays as you want then

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 12:45 AM
Hey i2i is that Another poor boxford with its free will (buttons) taken over by the invading PC lol (bit like the human race i suppose, (controled by the machines that are always correct or broken!!!) Nice machine though, maybe ill pick up one of those when ive finished mine..lol i will be watching this thread with interest!!


Rick

cooliced
12-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Thanks for the links peeps, while i work out what one i should go for, im gonna go and tidy up the wiring a bit.

Secondly, EMC2 or Mach3? ive used EMC2 before and not to bad with it, Mach3 is new to me but seems to have a lot of functionalty with the electronics out there

i2i
12-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Hey i2i is that Another poor boxford with its free will (buttons) taken over by the invading PC lol (bit like the human race i suppose, (controled by the machines that are always correct or broken!!!) Nice machine though, maybe ill pick up one of those when ive finished mine..lol i will be watching this thread with interest!!


Rick
Like a virus, Mach3 has eaten it's way through the very soul of the poor boxford. Tearing and cutting it's way throught the fibres of its nervous system, ripping and shredding the controls, until all that's left is a mere shell of it's former existence. :twisted:

The king is dead...Long live the king.
:heehee:

cooliced
12-08-2010, 11:10 AM
So just having a play after tiding up some cables, thought i would try to work out the movement on the z so i can get it precise, the fricking thing kept tripping the 24vcd supply :(

cooliced
12-08-2010, 01:12 PM
UPDATE, not sure what is happening but on the Z and X it seems to be tripping out the 24vdc supply for the steppers. now could this be because im only allowing 2amps through the gecko drives?

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 03:20 PM
EMC2 or Mach3? ive used EMC2 before and not to bad with it, Mach3 is new to me but seems to have a lot of functionalty with the electronics out there

Hi Cooliced, well i cant speak for EMC2 but as for MACH3 I was very impressed at how good the instructions, tutorials and support were, there are so many people out there with this piece of software that when you get a problem, there are so many people willing to help its scary.

I found the GUI intuitive and easy to navigate, and the ability to interface with outside hardware using the plugings opens many doors indeed.. But all this means nothing untill I try EMC2 so for the moment that is just my opinion.

Rick

cooliced
12-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Dont get me wrong i like Mach3, just cant seem to tweak as much as i would like at the mo, im sure that will come in time

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 04:19 PM
Like anything else, im sure mach has the ability to be tweeked as much as you like its just finding someone who has done it first so you can ask them how!! lol

cooliced
12-08-2010, 04:36 PM
so true,

Anyway, im rattling my brain on why these x-z axis is cutting out the DC supply. Now i have changed the resistor value to give 4Amps throught the gecko's but still happens. but only seems to happen when the motor gets some resistance..

Im at a loss

Stu

p.s Rick, nice avatar

Ricardoco
12-08-2010, 05:09 PM
Hey stu, do you know what amperage the steppers are drawing or should be drawing?

cooliced
12-08-2010, 06:56 PM
not a clue what there supposed to be drawing but i will check what they are

cooliced
12-08-2010, 07:35 PM
Ok so i checked the Amps from the PSU to the Gecko on both the X and Z

X Axis
0.091A at idol
0.265A Stepper turning

Z Axis
0.139 at Idol
0.704 Stepper Turning

cooliced
13-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Ok so today, i looked at the wiring of the parallel cable to make sure it was fine and yes every seems ok.

Checked wiring to make sure nothing was shorting out, again everything looks fine.

at a loss now lol :(

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 04:24 PM
get the missus to do it.

.
:rofl: Ive done this so many times. :whistling:

Ricardoco
13-08-2010, 04:26 PM
Ok so today, i looked at the wiring of the parallel cable to make sure it was fine and yes every seems ok.

Checked wiring to make sure nothing was shorting out, again everything looks fine.

at a loss now lol :(

This morning i was installing my new breakout board into my boxford and all sorts of od things were happening, turned out ide not connected the GND pin on the board with the driver GND, so its easy to miss stuff....

cooliced
14-08-2010, 12:46 PM
Yeah ive been over everything, i even put the DC supply on its own socket and still there tripping it.

I have now got the motors tunes very well, so happy about that :D just sick of it tripping all the time lol

GeorgeD
14-08-2010, 01:02 PM
If somethin is tripping a power supply the likely case its a short somewhere? have you looked at the PCB's and associated components for wear&tear and don't rule out dry joints? disconnect the motors and attach a meter to the 24v line and do whatever you do to get the the motors started? see if it still trips with motos disconnected.

John S
14-08-2010, 01:13 PM
Not what you want to hear but if you have been over currenting the Gecko you may has blown a mosfet or two.

To be honest I'm not a big fan of Gecko's, I know some people like them but they have given me nothing but trouble on machines that once the driver has been replaced by a decent one, they have run perfectly.

I used to run a big mill on them and they would blow a drive just on switching on in a morning, I spoke to Marriss and he said it was my motors even though I'd changed them and if I plugged another drive in that wasn't as powerful it didn't blow that.
Over a period of time it cost me 10 or 12 drivers.

I ran out of Gecko's and swapped to ARC's large 7.8 amp drive about 4 years ago and no problems since.

What really pissed me off though was about a year ago Marriss was reminiscing on the zone and his statement was :-

" Meanwhile the original G201 was a nasty bear that took over 4 years to subdue; anyone still remember early G201s blowing up for no reason at all on power-up? "

And all the while I was having problems I was told it was my machine.

.

GeorgeD
14-08-2010, 01:15 PM
Why is that orange wire going from the Z driver to a different location on the BOB, than the other orange wire on the Y Driver?

cooliced
14-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Not what you want to hear but if you have been over currenting the Gecko you may has blown a mosfet or two.

I was actually thinking this over breakfast this morning... Time to start testing i suppose.

George, the orange wires are the step wires to the BOB,

X = Step pin 1, COM pin COM, DIR pin 3
X = Step pin 6, COM pin COM, DIR pin 7

cooliced
14-08-2010, 07:15 PM
ok so im just about to buy a board from DIYCNC, what one do you suggest is best for my application?

John S
14-08-2010, 08:51 PM
System 1 plus the plug in spindle speed board, that one is advertised under the System 4 setup.
Same board used in both, cheapest and most cost effective.

No need for an opto board if you are using Gecko's or similar drives as the drives have this function.

cooliced
14-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Cheers john...

cooliced
15-08-2010, 02:36 PM
UPDATE!

So today i thought i would start to run through everything on the board with the steppers, starting with the Data cable.

This cable ahs been chopped and soldered back together very badly. i got my soldering kit out, and redid some of the wires that were looking crap. taped up all of the ends so non could touch.

Tried moving the motors about and ..... they worked fine. this put a smile on my face.!!

So then to the CNC4PC C1G Board.. Made sure all the connections were soldered and clamped in correctly. yup everything is fine.

Gecko's.. Well these are not my fav tbh but they work for now.. So again made sure all the ends were soldered and clamped correctly.

Lastly to the motors.. Soldered, clammped and secure!

gave the whole machine a good go and it wasnt tripping the PSU.... So rished down stairs and ordered a new cable, 18k resistors and now im looking at some new tooling..

What do you guys suggest for the tooling, i was looking at the indexable ones with carbide tips

Also, this was a quick (manual) test

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/CNC%20%20Lathe/dc11fb4f.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/CNC%20%20Lathe/f829d228.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/CNC%20%20Lathe/d1df227d.jpg

Getting closer to having it done!

i2i
15-08-2010, 03:06 PM
how far from the chuck was the ally, as there's a lot of chatter on the job. Could be the gibs need setting

cooliced
15-08-2010, 03:10 PM
you see in the last pic on the back side there is a mark, thats where the chuck marks were.

Tbh i think the tool is about as sharp as a cricket ball! and it might have been loose? i need to make sure everything is nice and tight next

One more questions, where do you get the center drilling attachment from?

i2i
15-08-2010, 03:28 PM
yes i see the marks, must be the tooling. Don't scrimp on the tooling when you buy, indexable tips and you need to spend around 20 per tool minimum. The cheap indexable sets are garbage.

i2i
15-08-2010, 03:30 PM
does this machine have a rotary toolpost or a dixon

cooliced
15-08-2010, 03:31 PM
yeah fully understand that... ive probably got some shite tooling and its crap.

dont really wanna be buying it of the bay then?

cooliced
15-08-2010, 03:35 PM
its not rotary, its a fixed quick release one.

Dixon?

i2i
15-08-2010, 03:44 PM
its not rotary, its a fixed quick release one.

Dixon?It should take t00 sized holders then, have a look around big tool suppliers like cromwell, msc, buck&hickman, and i'm sure there's many others. They will do either a grooved holder or a morse taper holder that you can fit drills or chucks into.
Dixon is the recognised brand, like Hoover for vacuum cleaners.

i2i
15-08-2010, 03:47 PM
yeah fully understand that... ive probably got some shite tooling and its crap.

dont really wanna be buying it of the bay then?ebay's not a problem but buy the better quality stuff, if you want your tooling to be repeatable (indexable) when changing tips.

battwell
17-08-2010, 11:14 AM
i bought some t0 holders off ebay, but had to linish the backs to get them to slide into mine.
(retrofitted mine with mitsubishi servos)

i2i
17-08-2010, 05:07 PM
i bought some t0 holders off ebay, but had to linish the backs to get them to slide into mine.
(retrofitted mine with mitsubishi servos)
I'd love to see that 125 with servos.

battwell
17-08-2010, 07:43 PM
havnt read the thread end to end but there is a cheap gemini on ebay, finishing soon
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270618979781&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:GB:1123

battwell
17-08-2010, 07:46 PM
i only have a couple of videos of it
heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E-TmwYuJNA
she now moves at 6000mm/min totally accurate (as accurate as the screws anyway as i couldnt be bothered to change them)

cooliced
17-08-2010, 10:17 PM
So the bits arrived today. only the resistors and cable

changed the cable, seemed to be a bit better and the steppers ran for alot longer before the PSU cut out.

Both gecko's now running 2 amps to the steppers so thats fine.

but it still keeps tripping the bloody PSU.

So i thought i would do some testing.

i found this http://www.geckodrive.com/upload/returnedenergydump.pdf

just wondering if that could be the case?

Does anybody have an idea how to test the gecko's to make sure there not the problem?

cooliced
19-08-2010, 08:54 AM
bump,

p.s. got another laptop to try with Mach3 and EMC2, hopefully one will work :D

GeorgeD
19-08-2010, 09:30 AM
How do Cooliced.

Are you running this machine through laptops? I read somewhere that some laptops don't deliver a full 5v pulse to the drivers,not saying this is your problem mind...but its worth checking the 5v rail on the bob underload?

cooliced
19-08-2010, 11:43 PM
well tbh i was gonna bite the bullit and use my Main Desktop PC and run the laptop downstairs (more user friendly)

I have read that somewhere too... hmm. thanks GeorgeD

battwell
20-08-2010, 11:28 AM
for the 24volts are you using the original transformer/ big cap in the boxford or a switch mode?
switch mode psu can trip with a no load as well as full load condition

re breakout: i used a cnc4pc buffered breakout and a step to analogue board from jon at cncdoctor.co.uk (always on ebay)
if your going to run off a laptop make sure you use a buffered board to pull the 3.3 v signals to 5v

the gemini is a torque drive so wants a max 8volt analogue signal not 10volts.

the gemini is pretty crap at holding correct rpm. and takes a hell of a lot of tuning to get to a reasonable state.
i hate steppers so i put in mitsubishi servos in mine. making it rapid at 6m/minute is fun to watch on such a small machine.

mach 3 will do whatever you want. its totally configurable when you start digging a bit deeper into it as ive proved with my latest conversion
(wood machining centre with 2 routers, 24 vertical drills, 10 horizontal drills all offset from each other)

cooliced
20-08-2010, 01:37 PM
tbh the laptop i was using was a peice of shit! so i smashed it up.... lol (gonna use for another project)

the original trans and big cap have long gone from the setup mate.

Like i said im gonna use the main PC to run this for now, then look at shuttle or something small

cooliced
22-10-2010, 12:57 AM
So anyway, long time since I updated this..

I got another desktop pc and ran mach3, still had problems gallor. so I ran the latest emc build and the steppers ( x and z) worked fantastically after a little setup.

Still need to get the spindle controller bought tbh then should be good to go with some full on cnc turning

Stu

battwell
22-10-2010, 11:47 AM
what problems did you hit with mach? it works great once set up right. plenty of help on the mach yahoo forums etc.
i had mine cutting right on the first day.

cooliced
22-10-2010, 03:06 PM
Tbh i really dont know what it was, but it seems to be running smoooth in Emc, so thats what i will stick with for now.

Im just looking at a Opto Relay board for the spindle

battwell
22-10-2010, 03:18 PM
i used an earlier version of this.
works well
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/0-10V-analogue-control-lathes-routers-boxford-cnc-/150509245392?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item230b0cd3d0

cooliced
22-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Is that for manual controlling? I was looking for something I can do through pc

battwell
22-10-2010, 06:35 PM
it is for use from a pc.
you send it a step pulse,(the same as you use for a stepper motor) it converts it to 0 to 10v analogue to be fed into the motor drive which controls the speed of the motor
0v the motor would stop
10volt the motor is at full speed
(8volt is full speed if your boxford has the gemini torque drive)

battwell
22-10-2010, 06:38 PM
he also makes a neat interface for the spindle opto switch which you will need to use if your going to do threading etc on the lathe

cooliced
22-10-2010, 09:32 PM
ok i wanted to run the spindle both ways and control speed from PC,

battwell
22-10-2010, 10:16 PM
if you want to control speed thats what you will need. infinately variable 0 to full speed
you just need 1 double pole changeover relay to switch the original contactor, controlled by the direction signal. these are only a fiver ish from rcelectronics on ebay.

cooliced
23-10-2010, 08:12 PM
So anyway today I was having a play making sure the limits were setup properly.

Then the 24v psu started to smoke and burn so I defiantly need a new one now.

Secondly, I was looking for some cas/cam software for lathes! But came up with uber expensive stuff

Stu

battwell
23-10-2010, 09:28 PM
oops. smoke is always expensive!
cant help with cam software. i write everything i want with gcode
for lathe its quite easy as its mainly arcs and segments for the things i make

cooliced
23-10-2010, 10:06 PM
i would love to write in just G Code lol

a new psu wont cost much tbh

battwell
24-10-2010, 12:35 AM
its easier to learn than schoolboy french
there are only about 20 commands for lathe, and thats including the complex stuff.
if you have mach 3 open it and press g code button, there is a good explanation of most things there. or its in the manual.
its way more complex to get a cam post processor sorted to spit out the right code for a lathe with reversed x axis like on boxford!
reversed arcs can give very weird results so try to find the right post for the program you will be using and test it with no material in the chuck first.
i was lucky (unlucky) that my first router had to be programmed by hand at the control panel so i had to learn it.

cooliced
25-10-2010, 11:42 PM
Cheers for the info mate.

Anybody got any decent links for a 24 v supply?

battwell
25-10-2010, 11:53 PM
i get mine from cpc.co.uk because if anything goes wrong in warranty its sorted straight away. you may pay a bit more than ebay

cooliced
05-11-2010, 05:08 PM
I have seen this,

Do you think this will be ok, the geckos are putting out 2A to each motor so 6.5A should be ok, 150w

battwell
05-11-2010, 06:00 PM
seen what? lol

cooliced
05-11-2010, 06:07 PM
http://cpc.farnell.com/sunpower/s-150-24/psu-sm-enclosed-24v-6-5a/dp/PW01686?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range&MER=e-bb45-00001003

battwell
05-11-2010, 07:06 PM
that looks like the one i have from them... havnt tried it powering steppers though but should be ok at 3 * 2amp max (you will rarely be at max on all 3 axis)

cooliced
05-11-2010, 07:47 PM
awsome. just ordered it

battwell
13-11-2010, 01:20 AM
try the psu out yet?

cooliced
28-11-2010, 11:34 PM
No mate, been away with the job, so come next weekend when i get back i will be full on it

cooliced
06-02-2011, 04:03 PM
So such a long time i have had to play with the lathe.

The new psu works brilliantly, still need to test the new board for control but the current one works very well, all spot on, no cutouts!

BUT...

I have been thinking about selling this project on.. I'm finding more of a need for a CNC Mill/Router around A3 sized bed if poss!

Stu

cooliced
09-02-2011, 01:54 PM
So yeah, this is going up for sale.

Im in need of a Smallish router/mill,

Working area 300x300x100 ideally, if anybody is interested in this, pm me and we can chat

cooliced
12-02-2011, 06:57 PM
so i now have everything working, all measurments are correct and calibrated.

just a few things i hope you lot can help with,

Emc sees the tool coming from right to left (thats ok) but from the bottom up, and my tools come from the top down...

the other issue im having is cad/cam for emc lathes :(

Stu

FatFreddie
12-02-2011, 07:41 PM
Emc sees the tool coming from right to left (thats ok) but from the bottom up, and my tools come from the top down...


You just need to change the direction for the axis in stepconf (check the "invert" box next to the direction pin on the parallel port setup page).

cooliced
12-02-2011, 09:25 PM
Thank you mate

cooliced
24-02-2011, 10:55 PM
Just to update you all and ask for a little help,

I have got the Spindle v3 DC/DC board from DIYCNC.. i dont wanna mess wiring this up!

Can somebody give me a little direction how to wire it to the existing hardware..

Thanks for any help

Stu

cooliced
26-02-2011, 11:58 AM
Ok got the 12v sorted, the gnd/step/dir sorted, v-out sorted...

im stuck on the last three bits, NO/C/NC ports,,,,, what are these for and what would i wire to them?

Please help

Stu

i2i
26-02-2011, 12:27 PM
That's the output of the relay, if you're using it, the "NO" is the normally open connection, the "C" is the common and the "NC" is the normally closed connection. What that means is the relay will make a connection from the common to the normally open when the relay is energised, and when the relay is not energised the common is connected to the normally closed

i2i
26-02-2011, 12:30 PM
I've used this for controlling the spindle go relay.

cooliced
26-02-2011, 12:34 PM
So if i get this right. i should be wiring the NO and C to the contactor where the old Controller (spindle Fwd/Spindle Rev) was wired into?

i2i
26-02-2011, 12:44 PM
Basically yes, the relay on the v3 switches the contactor on.

cooliced
14-03-2011, 11:22 PM
So i cannot get this bloody spindle moving with the spindle v3 board

i have included a pic of the contactor and the wiring diagram that i have...

im stuck where to put the NC/C/NO wires

Anybody help

Stu

3836

3837

cooliced
16-03-2011, 11:25 AM
im loosing my mind over this, anybody help please lol

m_c
16-03-2011, 12:41 PM
You're not going to get fwd/rev and speed control from that board alone, unless the gemini has other wiring options, or you rely on the gemini not turning the spindle when fed with 0V.

To get a single speed, you need to use the NO contacts to supply 240V (I think looking at the diagrams, but double check that's the power the contactor needs) to the fwd coil on the contactor.
To get fwd/rev, connect 240V to the C terminal, then fwd to NO and rev to NC, but then one part of the contactor is always going to be active, unless you use another method to cut the power to C terminal.

I'm sure you'll of already figured out where the 0-10V bit goes...

cooliced
16-03-2011, 01:43 PM
For now i think i will be happy with fwd motion lol

I have a vari pot for the 0-10vdc for the gemini and a massive stop button for the spindle (i.e. stopping the 240V at C)

Ive tried searching for info on the contactor but coming up with nothing :S

Ill have another go tonight

Thanks

i2i
16-03-2011, 05:43 PM
remember you've got a slant bed lathe and the turning should be done in reverse, you could mount the toolholder below the stock and turn forward, but the saddle will not have the support it needs.

i2i
16-03-2011, 05:45 PM
and drilling must be done in forward

cooliced
16-03-2011, 06:04 PM
lol so i need to get it going both ways.

Still a little confused where the wiring from no/nc/c should go on the contactor :(

i2i
16-03-2011, 06:15 PM
there are 2 contactors together, one turns the spindle forward and the other spins it in reverse. If i remember correctly the feeds for each contactor are on the right hand side about half way down.

i2i
16-03-2011, 06:20 PM
the no/c/nc is basically a toggle switch

i2i
16-03-2011, 06:24 PM
it switches the c to the no when you turn it on and back to the nc when you turn it off.

m_c
16-03-2011, 07:12 PM
What do you need to know about the contactor?

Looking at the wiring diagram, it's an interlocking contactor, which means only one set of contacts can be active at any given time. They're typically used for motor reversing, as if both were to activate at the same time, the power supply (in your case the Gemini drive) would be short circuited, leading to fuses blowing/magic smoke being released.

cooliced
16-03-2011, 08:35 PM
ah right i get it now,

at this time im still confused how i should be wiring this up....

Also would i be right in saying i would need two spindle boards for each direction?

cooliced
16-03-2011, 08:53 PM
sorry if im being stupid, my brain is fried from this at the mo

m_c
16-03-2011, 11:00 PM
If you need both directions, then all you need to safely control the spindle, is another way of switching the power (a relay is the easiest option) going to the spindle board relay (C terminal).
Connect the FWD contactor coil (after it's passed through the rev part of the contactor) to the NO terminal on the spindle board, and the Rev coil to the NC terminal (again after it's passed through the fwd part of the contactor). Then you have the other relay switching the power to the C terminal on the spindle board.
That way the direction signal to the Spindle board controls the direction (it switches the relay on the spindle board), the step signal provides the 0-10V analogue out to control the speed via the Gemini, and the extra relay switches everything on and off.

cooliced
17-03-2011, 11:05 PM
right so i have it all wired up now, i took the time to trace everything from the wiring diagram and from your help i think i have it..


Now i just need to work out how to toggle the Step and Dir on the Spindle board to control the speed and direction :D

I cant seem to get either Mach3 or EMC2 to work

m_c
18-03-2011, 02:02 AM
I know how to set Mach3 up, as I just done that on my lathe this week!

First you need to set the right step/dir pins in Motor Outputs, then on the Output Signals set the pins for controlling the relays according to the output #'s set on Spindle Control. You'll want to set the same output # for CW/CCW in the Relay Control (top left), and use that to control the additional relay that turns the supply on/off (the direction is controlled by the dir pin)
Then you'll need to set the values for the Spindle in Motor Tuning to give the desired step rate for providing the required step rate to the V3 board, Which having had a quick look at the manual, is 2000 steps per second for 10V output, so the figures you put in Steps Per, and Velocity per min, need to multiply to give 120000 (2000x60sec). Also remember you need to save the settings before closing the motor tuning box, or any chances won't get saved, and to make sure the pulse width is set to something other than 0.
And after that, set the pulley speed in the Spindle Pulley config.

Then in the manual screen, clicking spindle should power up the relay, then entering a speed into the S DRO and hitting enter should see power appear on the analogue terminal. Personally, I left my motor drive disconnected until I was happy I was getting the expected power on the analogue pin, and the relay was working how it should.


Having written all that, do I remember somebody mentioning that the Gemini doesn't need the full 10V?
If so, adjust the step rate in Motor Tuning to get the desired voltage, if adjusting the V3 trim doesn't decrease it enough.

cooliced
18-03-2011, 03:11 PM
Thank you so much for your info but i think im either doing something wrong here or im dunce

So here is a break down what ive got set

Ports and Pins

Spindle: Enabled, Step Pin 7, Dir Pin 8, Step Port 1, Dir Port 2

Output Signals

Output #1, Port 1, Pin 8 (Dir)

Spindle Setup

Relay Control, CW output #1, CCW Output #1
Motor Control, Use Spindle Motor Output (enabled), Use Step/Dir (enabled)

I have tested the NO/C/NC connections buzzing out when its switched but nothing happens.

Also VDC testing on the 0-10v output on the Spindlev3 isnt changing at all, stays at 0.02vdc

Stu

i2i
18-03-2011, 03:26 PM
you need to change the dir port to 1

cooliced
18-03-2011, 03:40 PM
Lol it is at 1, don't know why I put 2 lol

i2i
18-03-2011, 03:44 PM
do you have the outputs enabled

i2i
18-03-2011, 03:47 PM
are pins 7 and 8 duplicated in port and pins / motor outputs

They cannot be duplicated.

i2i
18-03-2011, 03:51 PM
you also need to set an output for the speed signal, eg, output 2 pin 7 port 1, and enable it.

i2i
18-03-2011, 03:52 PM
another thing worth checking, go into the setup of the computer bios and set the parallel port to epp

cooliced
18-03-2011, 04:27 PM
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/cbfd4883.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/d879f8ea.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa292/ubley/e5862a40.jpg

I set the bios option like you said, ive not enabled another output on pin 7 yet as i want to see the relay switching first :D

Thanks for all your help

M250cnc
18-03-2011, 05:34 PM
Cooliced

Pin 7 & 8 is fine for generating the voltage to the speed control

But you need another pin for Forward and another for Reverse (If you need reverse)

Otherwise you seem OK

Phil

cooliced
18-03-2011, 06:29 PM
im using DIR (pin 8) to control the Spindlev3 boards Relay, and STEP(pin 7) to control the 0-10v dc from the Spindlev3 board to the Gemini board...

M250cnc
18-03-2011, 06:41 PM
3855

This picture shows you using pin 7 & 8 to get a voltage

So you cannot use pin 8 to turn on the relay

Phil

m_c
18-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Just to clarify, do you have an additional relay for controlling the spindle on/off?

i2i
18-03-2011, 08:08 PM
i was wondering about the "8" being there

i2i
18-03-2011, 08:11 PM
i normally use pin 1 for the speed signal and pin 14 for the spindle go.

m_c
18-03-2011, 08:11 PM
Pin 7 should be getting used to produce the voltage, via the Step terminal on the V3, and Pin 8 should be controlling the relay on the V3 via the Dir terminal.
You should then be using another pin to another relay to turn the spindle on/off.

i2i
18-03-2011, 08:16 PM
i'm sure there's an enable on the gemini, you can use the second relay to control it.

i2i
18-03-2011, 08:19 PM
one point worth mentioning, the control of the contactors is 240v mains. This can cause a lot of noise, so it may be worthwhile having a low power relay that is switched by the v3 relay sited by the contactors to switch the contactor.

This way you don't have mains on the v3 board.

cooliced
18-03-2011, 09:08 PM
this was the aim, i am gonna sort out another relay to turn the spindle on/off.

ive got a mulitmeter zapping out the relay contacts NC and C, its showing closed circuit, when i press "spindle" the BOB lights do something but should the relay switch over to NO and C? this creating an open circuit and the multimeter show nothing at all

i2i
18-03-2011, 09:50 PM
they way to check is:

put your meter on continuity and the neg lead on the c connection and the pos on the nc and the buzzer should sound. Then get mach to switch the spindle on and the connection will be broke and the buzzer will go off. With the spindle off move the pos lead to the no connection and the buzzer will be off, then activate the spindle and the buzzer should sound.

m_c
19-03-2011, 01:30 AM
If you've not yet got an extra relay, how are you connected the v3 relay?
Are you connecting it so the spindle only works in one direction (i.e. only applying power to one side of the contactor) when active, or as a changeover so there's always power to one of the contactor coils?

If you're going for the one direction, then you need to assign the Relay output # to whatever pin you have the v3 dir terminal connected to, then set the dir pin in Motor Outputs to something that's not being used.

If you're going for the permanent live option, then you'll need to disable the spindle relays, and set Spindle dir to whatever pin you have the v3 dir terminal connected to. Then to activate the relay for testing, either tell mach to start the spindle in reverse, or tick Dir Low Active for the spindle and start it forward.

cooliced
19-03-2011, 01:05 PM
If you've not yet got an extra relay, how are you connected the v3 relay?
Are you connecting it so the spindle only works in one direction (i.e. only applying power to one side of the contactor) when active, or as a changeover so there's always power to one of the contactor coils?


For now, i just want it going in reverse..


If you're going for the one direction, then you need to assign the Relay output # to whatever pin you have the v3 dir terminal connected to, then set the dir pin in Motor Outputs to something that's not being used.


the DIR on spindle V3 board is on pin 8, so i need to set the Spindle Dir pin to 8? and for the motor output it needs to be something like 14 (not being used/connected)

m_c
19-03-2011, 06:41 PM
the DIR on spindle V3 board is on pin 8, so i need to set the Spindle Dir pin to 8? and for the motor output it needs to be something like 14 (not being used/connected)

In that case, you need to set the relay output # to pin 8, and set the Spindle Dir pin to something that's not being used.
You need to use the spindle relay option (can't remember the proper name and I don't have Mach on this comp to check, but the top left box in the spindle settings page), to turn the spindle on/off.

You can't use the Spindle direction pin to switch the power on/off, as Mach keeps 'dir' pins at their last set state, until that axis changes direction again. I.e. if you set it so Dir goes active when forward is selected, it will remain active, until you issue a reverse command.

lamestllama
24-03-2011, 01:26 AM
Hi all,

Sorry to interject but I have a question about the mechanics of the Boxford TCL 125. I am sure somebody here must be able to answer it and it would let me get on with my conversion if I did get an answer. I posted the question at http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/3302-Boxford-TLC-125-ballscrew-bearings

Thanks in advance for any input

Regards

Lamestllama

cooliced
02-05-2011, 11:53 AM
So an update...

Couldnt be bothered using Computer command to turn the spindle as it wasnt going as i wanted.. so i put it back on the manual switches on the front! works a treat! i have also kept the 0-10v for speed control on a pot..

Gonna tidy up a few things on the machine then its gonna be up for sale, as im in dire need of a Mill!

Stu

cooliced
18-08-2011, 11:15 PM
All wiring tidied, everything working fine.

Will post pictures later

P.s.

Now for sale in classifieds (or swap for mill/router)