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njhussey
12-08-2010, 06:15 PM
I've been wanting to build a CNC Router for some time now to help with building RC Gliders and planes. After much searching and looking on forums I've been recently collecting bits to make a CNC Router. I'm going the "skinflint" way at first to get into it before upgrading/re-designing later once I've had a good play! Bits I've bought/collected so fare are:



3 x Nema 23 Mineba Astrosyn 23LM-C355-P6V 1.5A/winding 550g/cm torque Steppers
250W 24V 10A Switching Power Supply
3 Axis TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Board Controller
TR12x3D Trapezoidal Spindles for the X & Y and TR10x2 for the Z Axis
6 x V£ type micro switches (limit & home)
Emergency stop switch
Delrin for antibacklash nuts (will make them myself from homemade tap)
Performance Pro 701W Rotary Cutter
24V fans for cooling electrics
300x20x120 Plastic enclosure for electrics
Screened Cable for wiring (from Work)
Armoured cable sheath for running the wires in
100x100x19 block of Aluminium for making the router holder/mount

The frame is going to be made from 40x40x5 RHS steel (sourced from the scrap bin at work), the X axis rails are going to be from 1" NB CS Sch40 pipe (again from the scrap bin) the Y & Z rails from 3/4" NB Sch40 CS pipe (scrap bin raiding again!! :smile: ) The bed will be 18mm MDF. The Y Axis sides and frame are going to be from either 5mm steel or 10mm Aluminium. I'm going to use skate bearings for the runners, a combination of skate-o-rail (Z & Y Axis) and joes2006 design (Z axis)

I've had the electronics together and working, see => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9uujaey-0 so now I'm just drawing up the machine and starting to dimension the parts.

I'm going to make as much as I can. We have a Colchester Bantam lathe and Bridgeport milling machine at work so If I can remember how to use them (it's been over 20 years since I was last in a machine shop) I'll make all the bearing shafts, machine the leadscrew ends and drill/tap all the plates etc.

I've uploaded a PDF of what I've drawn so far (minus all the scrap bits round the side) for you all to comment on. All I want to machine is balsa and ply and possibly some plastic. Not sure it will be up to doing Aluminium so maybe that will be phase 2!

Cheers,

Neil

Ross77
12-08-2010, 06:58 PM
Hi Neil

Looks like you have it all planned out, and realistic with what you want to cut, and will be good to see a machine using skate bearings take shape.

I couldnt see any reference to dimensions or table size so its a bit difficult to check, the main bit I can see you might have a problem with is the close spacing of the bearings on the x axis gantry plates. also is it possible to design the bearing holders with a slot in the bottom? that way you could support the rail with a small plate on its edge, similar to the supported round rail design.

Any way good luck

njhussey
12-08-2010, 07:41 PM
I couldnt see any reference to dimensions or table size so its a bit difficult to check, the main bit I can see you might have a problem with is the close spacing of the bearings on the x axis gantry plates. also is it possible to design the bearing holders with a slot in the bottom? that way you could support the rail with a small plate on its edge, similar to the supported round rail design.



Hi Ross77

The table is 1190 x 470. I haven't dimensioned much up yet, was just looking at the plates for the skate-o-rails and they were odd sizes so I guess things will change a bit once I start getting the dims to round numbers. I was wondering whether to do that but left it for the time being as I was getting the design roughly finished. I thought of welding a 6mm plate between the two rails to stiffen it but wasn't sure quite how accurate I'd get it, I was then thinking of how to make an adjustable design so decided to leave it for the time being. The plan was then to get all the experts out there to comment on it and see what modifications were recomended!! :tongue:

I've attached a dimensioned sketch of the gantry bearings. One of the things I need to do is make at least one of the bearings adjustable (see other attached drawing) so I can take up any slack when setting up.

Cheers

Neil

routercnc
12-08-2010, 08:22 PM
Hi njhussey,

Sorry to jump in with a sales pitch (!), but as an upgrade could I interest you in some bits to replace your pipe and skate bearings:
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php?2084-FOR-SALE-round-linear-rail-and-bearings
I noticed that the sizes were close, so may be an option. Still open to offers . . .

As for the design, reasonably traditional layout so good start. But the gantry sides look too thin. Consider welding angle iron onto the 5mm plate, or some other upgrade. Same goes for the flat plates holding part of the Z axis rails on (if I understand the dwg).

Otherwise, for balsa and liteply it should get you going . . .

Barry

cooliced
12-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Nice design,

Whats the exspected Outgoing costs of this build so far and projected?

Stu

Ross77
12-08-2010, 09:58 PM
The table is 1190 x 470. I haven't dimensioned much up yet


So you have approx 1200mm long rails on the x axis? I feel they could do with some support really. I also noticed that the bearings are quite a bit lower than the table, could this be reduced to help with the gantry stiffness?

I guess with a design like this it will be a work in progress and you will tinker and tweak the parts as you make them, you'll soon get a feel for what works and what doesn't, allowing for adjustment is always a good idea. :smile:

njhussey
13-08-2010, 10:55 AM
Sorry to jump in with a sales pitch (!), but as an upgrade could I interest you in some bits to replace your pipe and skate bearings:
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php?2084-FOR-SALE-round-linear-rail-and-bearings
I noticed that the sizes were close, so may be an option. Still open to offers . . .

As for the design, reasonably traditional layout so good start. But the gantry sides look too thin. Consider welding angle iron onto the 5mm plate, or some other upgrade. Same goes for the flat plates holding part of the Z axis rails on (if I understand the dwg).

Otherwise, for balsa and liteply it should get you going . . .



Hi Barry

I think I'll stick to my pipe and bearings as I've already got the bearings thanks. Also I'm doing this on the tightest budget ever...well trying to anyway! For my next machine (oh noooo I sound like everyone else on here now, not even built my first and already planning the second!!) I'll use fully supported precision ground rails or linear rails as I'll probably want to cut ally. I'm going to stiffen up the gantry, just not figured out quite yet how. Was thinking of a back, top and bottom welded to the sides from 6mm steel. Guess with all the weightI'll need to support the rails!

Neil

njhussey
13-08-2010, 11:01 AM
Nice design,

Whats the exspected Outgoing costs of this build so far and projected?



Cheers Stu, I reckon I've spent just a smidge under £180 so far, as I'm making the rest out of scrap bits from work I don't think there's too much extra to come in terms of expense. I've an old PC that I'm planning to use, might get a 15" flat screen to save space. All the machining I'm planning to do myself, might pay to get the steel plates cut for me by one of our work suppliers, been quoted £17 per gantry side and £6 per skate housing side which comes to £130...but still might do it mysef yet. Will probably try the first one and see how it goes!

Neil

njhussey
15-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Just gone through my purchases to date and costs are as follows:

30 x 608 2RS 8MM BALL BEARING SKATEBOARD = £11.91
6 x micro switch V3 type microswitch 16 amp = £4.19
1 x Aluminium Plate 105x103x15mm = £4.80
1 x 3 Axis TB6560 Stepper Motor Driver Board Controller = £41.67
1 x Acetal plastic sheet 215x110x20 = £10.23
1 x 10mm Round Bright Mild Steel = £2.10
1 x 250W 24V 10A Switching Power Supply = £21.29
1 x 1000mm TR12x3D Trapezoidal Spindle - Acme Ballscrew Leadscrew = £20.30
1 x 500mm TR12x3D Trapezoidal Spindle - Acme Ballscrew Leadscrew = £5.70
1 x 100mm TR12x3D Trapezoidal Spindle - Acme Ballscrew Leadscrew = £3.08
1 x Performance pro 701w rotary cutter = £15.00
1 x 8mm Round Bright Mild Steel = £1.65
1 x 200mm TR10x2D Trapezoidal Spindle - Acme Ballscrew Leadscrew = £3.96
3 x Stepper Motor MINEBEA Astrosyn 23LM-C355-P6V = £23.99

Total so far....£169.87

I'm back at work tomorrow (had 2 weeks off) so will begin machining and turning (in my lunch times) to make a skate-o-rail housing to test the theory! Been doing more draughting today, looking to support the 1" NB pipe by welding to 40 x 40 angle and also to put a 6mm steel web betwen the 3/4" gantry rails for support. should stiffen things up a bit!!

Neil

GeorgeD
15-08-2010, 04:06 PM
Where did you obtain the power supply from at that price? HongKong?

njhussey
15-08-2010, 04:29 PM
Where did you obtain the power supply from at that price? HongKong?

How did you guess?? :tongue: Yep good old eBay...http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180406610821

I must admit that after reading lots about the cheap Chinese rubbish around on other forums I was a bit hesitant but it has worked well the 4 or 5 times I've powered the controller and stepper up to test so far...As long as it gets me into the CNC hobby and lasts a little while I'll be happy. Got a list coming together for my second one already with much better kit on it...

GeorgeD
15-08-2010, 04:47 PM
Nah,you got swindled...bouht a 15amp job last week for the same price as yours,mind you it really only delivers 13 amps... unless my meter needs caliberating?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/350W-24V-15A-Switching-Power-Supply-RADIO-CCTV-/180382236578?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET

oops! I got swindled you didn't pay any postage. lol

njhussey
15-08-2010, 04:57 PM
oops! I got swindled you didn't pay any postage. lol

I did £8.19, total price was £21.29...I only need 4.5A so this is larger than my needs, I hope! :naughty: Hope yours comes better packed than mine, it was ratling about in the packing box, no damage tho luckily!!

GeorgeD
15-08-2010, 05:13 PM
That all in one driver board you have from china.... try and keep it down below 24volts any higher than 26v and you're as for pops bangs and whistles. :smile:

njhussey
15-08-2010, 05:19 PM
I read Irving2008's and others warnings about trying to put 36V through them. As I've only got 1.5A/winding Nema 23 steppers the PSU and controller should be ok!!

njhussey
23-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Well been far too busy last week at work (clearing up all the bits and problems that had accumulated after 2 weeks on holiday :eek:) and out of work (been doing DIY :confused:) but today managed in my lunch 3/4 hr to do a little something on my skate-o-rail bearing.

The problem with only having 3/4 hr is that by the time I've set the lathe up (read cleaning everyone else's muck off it!) I've run out of time to do anything!! Will have to set aside a saturday morning for a more serious production run! Anyway all I managed to do was cut 2 off 10mm sq steel axle supports, drill a 6mm hole in them and turn a rough (and I mean rough as the tool needed sharpening) axle.

Pics are attached. Ends need drilling and tapping yet and another 2 off units and the end plates making...still it's further forward that I was!!

GeorgeD
23-08-2010, 03:16 PM
Hmm! can't quite make out whether these will cause friction,the washers at the outside of the bearing will rub against the rubber housing and cause some degree of friction.

Personally the washers shouldbe the size of the middle outer bore with at least a 2mm gap between support and bearing.

GeorgeD
23-08-2010, 03:25 PM
Like this.....

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Lee Roberts
23-08-2010, 03:35 PM
Hi mate, I think ideally you should look at re doing the axle stud, only this time start with larger stock and turn it down leaving a nice set of shoulders for the bearing inner race’s to home to. (Sleeves with shoulders)

The rubber shields on the bearings will turn but its not ideal and they could end up jamming.

GeorgeD
23-08-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm also guessing that those bearings are 8 to 9mm wide? if so that spigots bearing spindle is far too wide and will cause the bearing to side travel.

njhussey
23-08-2010, 03:50 PM
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The washers do not rub on the rubber shield, see attached pic. But I was going to turn down some custom ones on the lathe if they did instead of using std M8 BZP washers. The bearing is a 608RS which is 22*7, the washers are 1.5mm wide and the centre of the axle is 10mm.

mudscience
04-09-2010, 07:21 PM
Hi.

Newbie here.

Thanks for posting this thread as I too am working on collecting bits for my first build, which is to be for PCB issolation milling in the main, but would like to dabble in other stuff.

I am also working to a budget and looking to 'recycle' stuff where I can. Have just bought the same motors and have spent several days checking out the threads on the same driver board and PSU that you have gone for. Will be really interested to see how yours holds up.

Thanks again for the thread and good luck.

njhussey
06-09-2010, 03:26 PM
Hi mudscience,

I've come to a bit of a stop at the moment due to various reasons. Hope to be able to kick start it again next week or so when things get back to normal, will keep posting any advances!!

mudscience
06-09-2010, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I know you said in your original post that you were looking for comments, but I wonder if I could ask a question to help me on my quest ... you've calculated that the motors will pull 4.5A. Depending on where I look I get different advise on what the 'guesstimate' total current will be. Some indicate # motors x A x 2, which in our case with the C355-P6V's will be 3 x 1.5 x 2 = 9A or # motors x A +2A = 6.5A. Any which way I think your covered, but I was wondering what 'rule of thumb' to use, because my next acquisition will be a PSU.

njhussey
07-09-2010, 10:13 AM
Well I used the first one you mentioned, i.e. double the total amps for the 3 motors. I'm sure someone like Irving2008 will be able to tell you far more accurately! :)

Jonathan
07-09-2010, 07:38 PM
Well I used the first one you mentioned, i.e. double the total amps for the 3 motors. I'm sure someone like Irving2008 will be able to tell you far more accurately! :)

I think to an extent it's the more the merrier!
For my 3N.m motors it's 4.2A in bipolar parallel. You need 66% of the total peak current. So three motors, that's 4.2*3*0.66=8.3A. I used a 500VA toroidal transformer, so 10amps. The motors did work perfectly well with a 325VA toroid but I couldn't get quite as high feedrates. I think because the internal resistance of the power supply was too high.

So anyway with your motors in bipolar series it's 3*1.5*0.66=3A. Or in bipolar parallel twice that, but I don't think your driver board will cope with parallel.

njhussey
18-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Well after about 6 weeks of doing other things (scratch building a RC glider DIY etc...) I spent a couple of hours in the works on Sunday cutting up some steel for the frame and the rails, see attached pics. Just got to cut some angle for the rail supports and do some welding and things will be progressing...think it's gonna take a bit longer than I thought given the limited time I've got to put into it.

Still like British Rail....(as was!) I'm getting there :smile:

njhussey
24-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Still like British Rail....(as was!) I'm getting there :smile:

Hmmmm....well it's taken me a year to weld up the baseframe, did it last saturday morning. Got into RC helicopters in the last year which has taken up all my time and money (costs alot to crash, well it does when you crash like I do:naughty:) also started selling Velcro on fleabay which has recently taken over my free time and what little money I had left. Anyway....I also drilled the rail holders I'm planning on using in my lunch hour. Now hoping to crack on with this build.
Will post pics as and when I get stuff done!

4769477047684767

njhussey
26-10-2011, 03:48 PM
Did a bit of drilling and tapping in my lunch today...

4775


4774

njhussey
28-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Been playing with Sketchup to see what my router will look like. Think I'm going to have to beef up my long (X axis?) rails as the gantry is going to be heavy...thinking about it might have to lighten it a bit else the stepper will struggle. The base is 1000mm x 500mm, box is 40x40x3 steel, plate is either 3mm or 6mm steel (all used as available from my works scrap bin!)

Comments???

njhussey
01-11-2011, 02:23 PM
Been playing a bit more with Sketchup and added the spindle (see seperate thread for details on the spindle as designed by blackburn mark http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/3793-Diy-brushless-spindle) steppers, leadscrews etc...

The more I look at it the more I am going to have to re-design the gantry as at the moment it will be too heavy. Will have to apply the KISS principle I think...

Below is a quick walk round video exported from Sketchup.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1R0T5tqzWw

njhussey
10-11-2011, 01:04 AM
Been chopping up some Delrin for lead screw nuts tonight, couldn't find my chop saw plastic blade so used my mitre saw instead :naughty:

Will finish off the round nuts in the lathe tomorrow lunchtime and finish tap them and also drill the white delrin and tap that as not sure which ones I'll use yet.

Hopefully my boring bar also comes in the post tomorrow as I can't wait to carry on with my DIY spindle :smile:

Still playing with my design...:whistling:

blackburn mark
10-11-2011, 01:53 AM
i always use my mitre saw on delrin that i cant get to with a slit saw, a bit of elbow grease LOL.... id almost forgot what that is :smile:

njhussey
16-05-2012, 05:58 PM
Well after doing nothing on this for months I'm going to cheat and use MDF to make the gantry sides (yes I know I know!!!) to get the project back under way as I'm spending all my money on RC helis. Then once it's working I'll use the machine to make upgrade bits for itself. The second router is already in the design stage, going to be a supported rail, twin leadscrew design...

njhussey
06-09-2012, 07:32 PM
Hmmm seem to have been away for ages again...still now bought a small welder so will start cracking on with the fabrication.

6731

Finally decided to do 2 machines, one for balsa and one for ally...the one for ally will be a small one I can also use for labels etc...

njhussey
24-10-2012, 06:36 PM
I really should stop playing about with the design and get on and build the damn thing.....but I keep reading posts on here and changing things. Was going to go with a framed gantry but then everyone says to keep the sides down to a small height to increase the stiffness.

Here's my latest design, can you guys comment on it please? It's going to be predominantly for cutting balsa and ply, the odd bit of plastic, carbon fibre and possibly aluminium components for RC planes, helicopters etc. There's only 100mm of height, but as the thickest balsa I'll be cutting is probably 1/2" it should be fine.

The box frame is 40x40x3 mild steel, the flat plate is 12mm 5083 Ali, the rails are SBR 16, most probably from linearmotionbearings2008. There are a few things which need tweaking to make them fit (Z axis bearing plate needs to be made the same width as the bearings etc.) so I'm aware of them, it's just the basic concept/design.

720772087209

Jonathan
24-10-2012, 07:16 PM
I would make the mounts for the X and Y stepper motors/ballscrew fixed end bearings stronger since they have to support the axial force on the ballscrews, so any deflection in those mounts directly causes inaccuracy in the tool position.
On my machine I have SBR20 and SBR25 rails and it is clear that the 25mm rail system is substantially stronger, presumably (apart from the obvious reasons) because the bearing blocks have an extra row of balls. I urge you to consider at least using 20mm rails as it shouldn't cost that much more, although it does mean increasing the box section size to 50mm.
Have you considered using pulleys and timing belts to drive each axis? This can simplify mounting the motors, reduce resonance, improve feedrates or resolution, among other things.

njhussey
25-10-2012, 12:04 AM
Thanks for the comments Jonathan, I'll beef up the mounts and possibly look at pulleys. This router will be used for mainly balsa and ply so I cant see the need for the 20mm or 25mm rails, surely the 16 will be strong enough? The only Ali I'll be cutting on it will be thin stuff for horns, brackets etc. out of 1mm or 2mm thick.

If you look at the below router it's made out of 30x30 Ali and skate bearings and cuts balsa fine for making models! Yes it's not fast or particularly accurate but was fit for the purpose it was built for...

7210

I will be making a smaller stronger router/mill for doing Ali blocks/brackets etc at some stage in the future and this will be made with linear rail and all the other goodies!!

njhussey
01-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Just got myself some 10mm Ali plate from fleabay for a (what I think is) bargain price.....aluminium plate 10mm thick 2200 x 950 mm approx 87" x 37 1/2" Pickup floor | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281007420825?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) Now going to look at the design and get drawing some parts to get made :D Need to invest in a pillar drill now to get all the holes drilled nice and square!

Jonathan, I've been looking at the 20mm rails and you're right they're not that much more so will get them...

njhussey
02-11-2012, 04:20 PM
Chai quoted $246 for the rails for my router so I think I'll get them when I've got the money soon. Picking up the Ali plate in a bit and have someone with a CNC router going to cut the bits for me :D

Just one thing to ask. would it be better to have the y axis rails spaced apart and the ball screw (well trapezoidal rod for now) through the middle and have some plate on the back to stiffen it up? This would bring it nearer the spindle and reduce the twisting when cutting?

Very quickly moved things around as per the below (yes I know things need sorting but just wanted to show what I was on about...picture paints a thousand words and all that!!)

72877288

njhussey
15-11-2012, 03:09 PM
Picked up a 2200 x 950 x 10 sheet of second hand (holes in the edges) Aluminium from flebay for the princely sum of £52 the other week.

7390

Finally got round to taking it to a local sheet metalwork shop to get guillotined into smaller peices.

7391

I've now got 5 pieces:

2 off 1000 x 5000 (going to be bolted together and then bolted to the steel base to make the router base, holes don't matter as they'll be out of the cutting area)

2 off 1000 x 450 and 1 off 950 x 205, pieces to get the gantry sides, brackets etc. out of.

Now going to do 2 routers. One is purely for cutting 1000 x 100 balsa sheet and will be a combination of MDF and aluminium. All the items I have so far purchased will be used on this. I will then be able to cut my teeth on this to get used to using the CNC and whilst the machine is hopefully generating some money cutting balsa plane kits I'll be building my other router.

Balsa Router.

7392

The "proper" router will have 3Nm steppers, 80V drivers, 20mm supported rails, 1610 ballscrews belt driven etc. etc. Rough picture below, the 12mm Trapezoidal screws and smaller steppers are still shown here as I've not re-drawn it yet.

7393

If anyone feels so inclined to do so I'd appreciate any feedback, comments etc...

Jonathan
15-11-2012, 04:53 PM
Picked up a 2200 x 950 x 10 sheet of second hand (holes in the edges) Aluminium from flebay for the princely sum of £52 the other week.

Not fair! I hope it doesn't turn out to be a difficult grade to machine.

Be careful with the amount of Z-travel on the MDF/aluminium machine. Clearly you want to have as small a Z-travel as possible to reduce the deflection from having a relatively weak Z-axis and gantry, but there still needs to be room to change tools. This could be a problem if you need to use drills, unless you buy short drills and/or have a hole in one corner of the bed which you jog the machine to for performing the toolchange.

njhussey
15-11-2012, 05:50 PM
Not fair! I hope it doesn't turn out to be a difficult grade to machine.

It was far less than I was prepared to pay so was well happy.....I'll find out if it is difficult when I send some pieces to Haydn to machine for me. I've still got to do the calcs and design the bearing housings etc. Where would the best place be to have the ball screws on the X axis, they seem to be sticking out quite a long way. Would it be better to have them under the 50x50 box that the rails are sitting on?


Be careful with the amount of Z-travel on the MDF/aluminium machine. Clearly you want to have as small a Z-travel as possible to reduce the deflection from having a relatively weak Z-axis and gantry, but there still needs to be room to change tools. This could be a problem if you need to use drills, unless you buy short drills and/or have a hole in one corner of the bed which you jog the machine to for performing the toolchange.

As the tallest piece of balsa is likely to be 1" I'll look at lowering the gantry and reducing the travel. Want to reduce the gantry size anyway as the sum of all the lengths is just over 5m in length so just more than 1 length :)

Below is the sort of thing I'm looking to cut on the MDF router. No drilling, I'll be using mostly 2mm cutters (somethinig like this I guess 10x Carbide Drill PCB End Mill Engraving Bit CNC 1.2mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-Carbide-Drill-PCB-End-Mill-Engraving-Bit-CNC-1-2mm-/180672519963?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2a10ebdf1b) )in the E50 Proxxon I have but yes will look at height for tool changes.

7394

njhussey
16-11-2012, 07:09 PM
Well after work I stopped by our local steel and Ali merchant (not the one we use at work) and got 3 x 1.5m lengths of 25mm x 25mm 10g Ali then went to B&Q and got an 8 x 4 sheet of 18mm MDF which they cut down into manageable lengths. Liberated a couple of 1.2m lengths of 3/4" medium red band pipe from work today (we haven't used it for 7 years) so this weekend unless I get collared to do DIY I'll be marking out and cutting out bits for the cheap crappy router I'm doing ;)

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njhussey
18-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Didn't get much time on the build, only an hour or so this evening tut...anyway I've cut some of the MDF down and routed a channel out for the pipe to sit in. Found out that my tools are crap so been struggling to get accuracy. Also cut some of the Ali sq down to size. Just need to drill and tap the Ali for the skate bearings but won't get a chance to do that till Tuesday.

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njhussey
25-11-2012, 06:53 PM
Just picked this up today to help drill some holes :) Need a better vice as that one is really crap (but was given it so better'n a kick inna fork...so to speak ;) )

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njhussey
09-12-2012, 10:32 PM
Had a couple of hours out in the garage today and have put together the base with the rails bolted to them. Used my new digital angle gauge to make sure the rails were level and perpendicular to each other...end plates for the base to cut then I can start assembling the gantry. Now need to jump on the lathe at work and machine my lead screw ends and work out how I'm going to machine the aluminium bearing plates.

755975607561756275637564

njhussey
19-12-2012, 12:28 AM
Too many other things getting in the way of working on the router at the moment. Had an hour or so out in the garage tonight, was a tad cool out there..

Started one of the gantry sides but the brain wasn't working and it's not as good as I'd like so will buy some more Ali and do it again, but better!

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7659

7660

kingcreaky
03-01-2013, 09:44 AM
I admire your determination and self critisism sir. Looks perfect to me Im sure there is some time wrapped up in those pictures.

Been anxiously awaiting an update.... :lemo:

njhussey
03-01-2013, 11:08 AM
Unfortunately I didn't get any time on the build over the Christmas period as I was away, only had 1 night at home and that was only really a pit stop to dump presents and pick up more on the way to the next relative.

Planning on getting another length of Ali on Friday and re-doing the skate bearing pieces. Will probably take it into work Sat AM and use the metal saw there to get them exactly the same length. Hopefully I'll not have brain fade this time so the holes will line up correctly!

The top picture in the above post of mine shows one side which in the photo looks OK.....however in my rush to get something done I assembled and drilled it back to front and the bearing holders were upside down, about as wrong as you can get!! Less haste, more speed comes to mind!! The top one should be the fixed with the bottom one able to be clamped up to the pipe to eliminate play.

Should have some updates on the weekend for you, hoping to get quite alot done as no plans for the weekend :)

njhussey
26-06-2013, 06:19 PM
Well doesn't time fly....

Not done anything for ages as life has got in the way (family bereavement, relationship split up and new one developing etc. etc...) but I'll have funds available soon to get all the components so should be able to push ahead. Think I've come to the last (famous last words) iteration of my design. Quick animation of the design is on YouTube, link below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIvR3KbqL4

WandrinAndy
26-06-2013, 08:17 PM
Welcome back Neil. I like your most recent design.

kingcreaky
27-06-2013, 08:37 AM
glad that despite all your other challenges your still eager for some more... :D cant wait to see the build thread

njhussey
27-06-2013, 10:01 AM
Cheers guys!

Once my Mum's (now half mine) house sells (exchanging contracts in a week or so) then I need to buy a 9' x 6' shed which will take 2 weeks to be delivered so the SBR20 rails and RM1610 and 1605 ball screws and BK/BF ends and NEMA 23 motors and drivers will all be ordered at the same time so they should all arrive at about the same time.

A couple of clearer jpgs below...

915091499148

kingcreaky
27-06-2013, 10:07 AM
very similar design to mine... surely you'd be better off just buying mine? :-D

njhussey
27-06-2013, 10:09 AM
If I had a big enough shed I would!! Only in rented accommodation (moving from Hereford to Gloucester) so no where to put a big machine like yours :(

njhussey
05-07-2013, 04:02 PM
Just got another bargain bit of Ali on fleabay...20 mm Aluminium Plate | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-mm-Aluminium-Plate-/130941788041?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=lENXDLUCKKj6ezIyQQNVTwIGhKk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)

Might have to think about re-designing my router now to take into account the 20mm thick Ali :biggrin:

njhussey
09-07-2013, 02:03 PM
92249225

Guys, I'm now in a quandary as to which direction to go in my build. I'm going to have to have the router in a shed (10' x 8' it's grown since my previous post as I've been looking at how much "useful stuff" I've recently acquired!!) so space will be at a premium. As I'm mostly going to be cutting balsa, 3mm thick ply, the odd bit of plastic and thin Aluminium (for control horns etc.) do I go for a bigger design I've been working on or stick with the original design? The original design gives me 700mm x 300mm cutting which is ample for what I need it for (not thinking of future expansion though) with 1000mm 20mm rails and 16mm ball screws and the new design gives me 995mm x 500mm with 1300mm 20mm rails and 16mm ball screws. I've been considering also mounting the new design vertically to save space (after remembering Jazz mounting his, almost, vertically.) For the original design I've already fabricated the base but seeing as I have access to getting hold of cheap steel through work, fabricating a new frame will not be that hard or costly.

I'd appreciate your thoughts as I'm in two (possibly more) minds....

JAZZCNC
09-07-2013, 10:11 PM
I've been considering also mounting the new design vertically to save space (after remembering Jazz mounting his, almost, vertically.)

If your space challenged then it's a no brainier to me go vertical. There's no down sides only gains, space being the biggest gain.
My machine mainly (99%) cuts aluminium and other than the space saving the other benefits are below. Wood cutting will be similar and possibly better with vacuum for chips.

Better quality of finish due to gravity helping to clear chips.
Much Longer cutter life due to less re-cutting chips, over 50% less wear.!
Greater DOC can be used for roughing again due to less heat and work re-cutting chips.
Less air required for blown air/mist cooling again due to gravity and less chips to clear. Down from 50-70psi to 10psi and obviously much less volume of air required.
Less chips flung around shop again due to gravity and cut chips being cleared more efficiently so not getting re-cut and thrown about with 80%+ falling into bins below machine.
Much easier access and loading/clamping of material due to bed being directly in-front of you, no more back aching bending over fastening material.
Better access to spindle and tool loading.

Has you can see other than the major space saving there's quite a few other decent quality benefits and I can honestly say there's been NO down sides.

Yes there's things I've learnt from being vertical about design that I'd build into a purpose built vertical machine. These would mainly deal with lessening chip collection on various surfaces.
The Z axis would be one area I'd look at and build more shielding around. Ball-screw bearing blocks would be another and I'd build shielding to stop chip collection.
Both of these are only minor things and don't affect the machine in anyway also my machine has NO protection of any kind for belts,ball-screws so they would be things I'd do anyway if was building again and it was horizontal.

The other thing I'd do with MY particular machine is raise the whole thing up higher than it is now.?
At the minute it's just in the same spot it was when first tipped up, sat on same axle stands. This means the bottom area of the bed lower than I'd like also the gantry when parked at top is not quite above head height and I bump my head on it when removing material. Also it's just makes fitting tools into spindle a bit more awkward than could be.
Both of these things are Still much better than when horizontal but if machine was 12" higher they would be perfect.

Now before folks comment on material holding etc other than requiring holding on first placement until clamped then it's absolutely no different to when horizontal.
This initial holding is easy over come with a simple temporary holding shelf I slide into position to place against material edge, which I then slide out the way while cutting. The slight incline of bed then holds it hands free against bed while I clamp or screw it down.
Just like when horizontal both cut parts and waste material needs to be clamped for safety's sake. To be honest it's actually safer regards waste because it mostly falls away from cutter and off the bed so with thought about placement of material cutting entry IE: always starting/exiting at top then there's far less chance of material being pulled back into cutter. That said I also have and do fasten waste material has it's just best practice.

Hope this helps.!

njhussey
10-07-2013, 10:03 AM
Jazz, in your opinion would the router be better at a slight angle (15° in this case) or at 90°?

I can see the slight angle as better for work placement as the work will "fall" against the bed and the chips will still fall away into the collection tray at the bottom. I've added some sheet steel sides (that might need more support to stop resonance) so those will stop the chips from being flung all over the place. Just need to work out some shielding for the ball screw lower bearing mounts, and the stepper mounting arrangements and a few other details and I should be good to go I hope?

9226

JAZZCNC
10-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Jazz, in your opinion would the router be better at a slight angle (15° in this case) or at 90°?

Yes defiantly have inclined just helps hold material better while fastening other than that there's no advantage.

Model looks nearly there. Don't think you'll need the tray that wide and If your not using coolant then wouldn't make it part the machine just use removable plastic bins which you then use to take chips to out in. My bins stick out from front of bed about 6-8" when cutting and I just slide them back a bit while loading material.

One thing you want to build into machine is a bump stop at the bottom where you park the machine when not using it. This takes the load off the ballnuts and belts.
My machine doesn't drop when stood without power to motors but only takes the slightest of push to make it drop. Only really required when leaving over night or several hours stood still and in normal use IE: between jobs etc I just park gantry at the top in the home position and it's fine.
I home the machine to top left corner when facing the machine. I have a park button on my screen and it goes to the bottom and rests against the end stops.
I don't use limits only home switches has I never normally get any where near them in normal use and rarely cock up bad enough to get near them these days so it's not a problem with tripping switches. If you where using limits then you'd have to build limit override into the parking routine which is easy enough.

njhussey
10-07-2013, 01:57 PM
Cheers Jazz, the tray will be a removable metal one (I’ll get the local tin bashers to knock one up from 2mm steel and run a weld up each corner to seal it and it’ll be loose in between the frame so I can lift/slide it out. I’ve still got to detail things like all the stepper mounts, end stops, limit switches etc. but didn’t want to go into too much detail before getting the basics done! I’ve quickly added a couple of stops at the bottom of the rails and added/changed the stepper mounting brackets for the X and Y axis.


92289229


I’ve half a mind to make the leaning frame in one piece and the router bed in one piece and bolt them together. This way I’ll be able to separate them in the event of a move (very likely in the not too distant future) so I won’t need a Hiab to lift it over the back wall to get it out of the garden!!


I now have a few questions to ask before I get going on ordering bits and pieces for the build so again would appreciate the benefit of everyone’s combined knowledge!

I’m going with SBR20 rails for all 3 axis with SBR20UU carriages. X is 1300mm long and Y is 750mm long, Z is 400mm.


Ball screws. I was thinking of 1605 (from Chai) driving them with belts at 2:1 ratio on the X & Y axis and 1204 for the Z being direct drive from the 3Nm stepper. Is the 1204 ball screw OK for the Z or is it better using the 1605? I’d be happier using the 1204 to use the smaller ball nut and therefore getting an extra little bit of length on the X axis.


For the Stepper motors I was thinking of 4 of the 60BYG301B 3.1Nm motors from CNC4YOU? Any others to consider, the SY60STH86-3008B from Zapp? Any difference (I can’t see any in the specs particularly) in the two apart from price?


I’m thinking of going with either the CW-885 Drivers from CNC4YOU or the AM882 Leadshine from Zapp. I’m leaning towards the AM882 but what are your thoughts? I take it that I can drive the 2 X axis steppers from the same driver so will only need 3 drivers? Is the performance of these drivers much better than the 50V drivers? I think I’d rather spend a bit more and have better “future proofing” even though for cutting balsa and thin ply the 50V drivers will be fine I’m sure I’ll be cutting Ali and all sorts after a while!


Which BOB would you recommend?


Power supply. Is it best to buy one readymade, i.e. the PS806-5 from Zapp, or have a go at making my own? Is there a significant saving to be made?


I was going to do this all on a shoe string budget (see first post on this thread!!) but now don’t have to so would rather buy decent equipment (without going completely over the top!)

JAZZCNC
10-07-2013, 03:59 PM
Ball screws. I was thinking of 1605 (from Chai) driving them with belts at 2:1 ratio on the X & Y axis and 1204 for the Z being direct drive from the 3Nm stepper. Is the 1204 ball screw OK for the Z or is it better using the 1605? I’d be happier using the 1204 to use the smaller ball nut and therefore getting an extra little bit of length on the X axis.

No wouldn't do that go with 10mm pitch and if around 1500mm then I'd go with 20mm screw, chai now sells these.
Yes 1204 will work ok for Z axis, my machine uses that size. That said I always tend go with 1605 on machines I build has they are more readily available and bit more meat for pulleys etc, they also allow slightly higher tuning.


For the Stepper motors I was thinking of 4 of the 60BYG301B 3.1Nm motors from CNC4YOU? Any others to consider, the SY60STH86-3008B from Zapp? Any difference (I can’t see any in the specs particularly) in the two apart from price?

Either there's very little difference, I've used both.


I’m thinking of going with either the CW-885 Drivers from CNC4YOU or the AM882 Leadshine from Zapp. I’m leaning towards the AM882 but what are your thoughts?

Not used the CW-885 but they will have to be very very good top beat the Am882 so for me it would be the tried and known AM882.


I take it that I can drive the 2 X axis steppers from the same driver so will only need 3 drivers? Is the performance of these drivers much better than the 50V drivers? I think I’d rather spend a bit more and have better “future proofing” even though for cutting balsa and thin ply the 50V drivers will be fine I’m sure I’ll be cutting Ali and all sorts after a while!

NO Bad idea Each motor needs it's own drive. You could in theory run 2 drives from one signal output but don't run 2 motors from 1 drive. I wouldn't recommend using one output has it leads to timing issues and inaccuracy's etc and not worth the hassle.

Couple of reasons for not running 2 motors from 1 drive. The drive ratings are split between both motors so 80V 8A would only allow 80V and 4A for each motor. Most 3-4nm motors are around 4-5A so not enough and plus it's working the drive very hard shortening it's life quite a bit.
BUT bigger reason is the Resonance handling of the drive can not work properly and doesn't know which motor to apply resonance compensation too and gets very confused with result being the other motor gets pushed into resonance.
Believe me you don't want resonance issues they are a night mare, resonance can/does cripple the performance of a machine.
By the way the AM882 are fantastic at handling resonance, you can hear and certainly see the smoothness compared to Analogue and some of the cheaper digital drives.

Another thing to consider when using slaved motors on a Axis is that you will want some way to square the gantry and for this you need 2 Inputs for home switches because each screw needs to be turned individually while homing.



Which BOB would you recommend?

No contest PMDX 126 hands down the best. . . Cheap NO.!!


Power supply. Is it best to buy one readymade, i.e. the PS806-5 from Zapp, or have a go at making my own? Is there a significant saving to be made?

Again no contest build your own this way you can have the exact voltage and Amps required plus it works out cheaper because you'll need 2 of the PS806-5. Will build your own for less than one PS806.

njhussey
10-07-2013, 09:45 PM
I might go a single stepper on the X axis and use belt drive for both ball screws then.

Got a quote from Chai today for the SBR20 rails/carriages and the 1610 machined ball screws, ball nuts, BK & BF bearings etc. and its very reasonable (just a bit over half the price I worked out getting it from the UK would be) so will get those on order soon. Am moving house this week so will wait till the end of the month till I have done that and unpacked a bit!

Should give me time to go through the design and make sure all dims etc are correct and print cutting lists off for the steel.

njhussey
11-07-2013, 03:56 PM
Another question. I was planning on using 3" x 2" x 1/4" Aluminium box for mounting the rails on (X & Y axis) but noticed that others have used steel in their builds. I was always under the impression that steel was not straight enough? I'd prefer to use steel as it's cheaper and I can weld the frame up and I need 3 lengths of it for the existing frame so wouldn't have as much waste.

JAZZCNC
11-07-2013, 06:13 PM
Another question. I was planning on using 3" x 2" x 1/4" Aluminium box for mounting the rails on (X & Y axis) but noticed that others have used steel in their builds. I was always under the impression that steel was not straight enough? I'd prefer to use steel as it's cheaper and I can weld the frame up and I need 3 lengths of it for the existing frame so wouldn't have as much waste.

Man wish I'd got £ for every time get asked this.. .Lol

What makes you think Ali box is any straighter or flatter than steel.?. .. It's not.!! Also contrary to popular belief often neither is Alu profile.! . . Steel is far stronger and cheaper and with careful selection can be very straight and flat. It's also very easy to work with if it's not perfectly flat.

There's very few off the shelf materials that you can use without some form of correction for inaccuracies and that includes Alu profile. People think profile is straight and flat but in reality it's often not, yes it can be better than extruded profiles like Alu box but it will still need some form of correction to the surface at some point. It's also 5x the price.

The main area of concern is for the rail surfaces being straight and flat. Extruded Alu like Box is rarely straight or flat enough to use without work so will need some form of correction, either filling or sanding high spots.
This also the same for steel but the difference being steel is quite easy to scrape,file,grind,sand than Ali has being harder it doesn't clog tools etc.
In my experience steel box has just the same inaccuracies that Alu box does but steel is much easier to correct. Often all it needs is a quick run over with grinder knocking off any high spots, Low spots can be filled. Then just shim the rails to get perfect.

If your using the Chinese round type rail then I can tell you with 99% certainty the base will not be flat or straight and will have more error than the steel your fastening it to.!!. . And thats without correcting the steel.!!

Have no fear of steel, it's cheaper,stronger and very easy to work with and manipulate to your needs. Other than being lighter Alu has just the same issues steel does and unless you have special welding equipment is actually harder to work with.
If you bolt together while bit easier to drill alu suffers from crush and hole deformation much more than steel does. Unless it's thick material doesn't hold tapped threads very well like steel does. Steel will easily hold fine threads in 3mm thickness for fastening rails etc and allow decent torque on bolts, try that in Alu.!

njhussey
12-07-2013, 09:37 AM
Man wish I'd got £ for every time get asked this.. .Lol

That's £ I owe you then :biggrin:


What makes you think Ali box is any straighter or flatter than steel.?. .. It's not.!!

Just presumed that as lots have it for the Y axis that it was straighter, never used it really so presumed others knew best!!


In my experience steel box has just the same inaccuracies that Alu box does but steel is much easier to correct. Often all it needs is a quick run over with grinder knocking off any high spots, Low spots can be filled. Then just shim the rails to get perfect.

Can do all that in our works, Was thinking of welding some 50x5 flat to the 50x50 box and get a local engineers to skim the surface so it's flat.


If your using the Chinese round type rail then I can tell you with 99% certainty the base will not be flat or straight and will have more error than the steel your fastening it to.!!. . And thats without correcting the steel.!!

Nice, I look forward to that!


Have no fear of steel, it's cheaper,stronger and very easy to work with and manipulate to your needs. Other than being lighter Alu has just the same issues steel does and unless you have special welding equipment is actually harder to work with.
If you bolt together while bit easier to drill alu suffers from crush and hole deformation much more than steel does. Unless it's thick material doesn't hold tapped threads very well like steel does. Steel will easily hold fine threads in 3mm thickness for fastening rails etc and allow decent torque on bolts, try that in Alu.!

I have no fear of steel, it's my preferred material of construction as that's what we use at work to build the oil systems I quote, see the pic of a system we did for Ratcliffe Power Station ID fan blowers.
9236

m.marino
12-07-2013, 05:25 PM
Neil,

Nice power station reminds me of the days when I worked as pipe-fitter in Industrial tool trade in the Detroit area. I use AM882's and unless you are planning on going to the feed back loop stepper motor/drive combo I strongly suggest them. They run well and stay cool even after a good long day of cutting (14 hrs). Unless you have access to industrial power supplies I would suggest building one with a toroidal transformer, I get a really nice smooth power off my set up and once the transformer got charged it has been running very nice (looking at adding a fan to cool everything down just a bit, for safety measure).

Nice design and should do everything you are asking of it and more. Hope the move goes well. -Michael

njhussey
15-07-2013, 10:43 AM
I use AM882's and unless you are planning on going to the feed back loop stepper motor/drive combo I strongly suggest them. They run well and stay cool even after a good long day of cutting (14 hrs).

I'm not planning on using the feed back loop combo, not sure I'll run the machine that hard as it's for hobby use. For what I want it for the AM882's will be more than good enough.


Unless you have access to industrial power supplies I would suggest building one with a toroidal transformer, I get a really nice smooth power off my set up and once the transformer got charged it has been running very nice (looking at adding a fan to cool everything down just a bit, for safety measure).

I'll probably ask for help when doing the power supply. I think I've subscribed to a thread where one is made but failing that I'll ask for help.


Nice design and should do everything you are asking of it and more. Hope the move goes well. -Michael

Cheers Michael, I'm hoping that I don't get a rush of blood to the head and re-design it again :rolleyes: I'm quite happy with the design now, all I think I'll be doing (unless anyone points out any major flaws) is doing the minor details, checking everything fits as it should and then detailing the pieces with the bolt holes, machining etc.

Just been checking the 10mm aluminium sheet I got from eBay a while back (2200mm x 950mm) as I've moved it to temporary storage and after cleaning some dust off I discovered it's 6082 grade so happy with that!! Just waiting for my other bargain eBay bit of 20mm thick Ali to be sent!!

njhussey
28-07-2013, 10:09 AM
Got a shed coming soon (well they call it a log cabin, 28mm thick wood) for my workshop. Managed to start doing the base for it yesterday afternoon, until the rain started! Still got a couple of weeks till the sheds here so plenty of time to finish it. Will need the time if all the rain we're forecast materialises!

9338

Still got the noggins to put in and the OSB to put on top. Going to anchor it in the ground with 4"x4" fence post bits 400mm long postcreted in the ground, going to put more posts under the bit where the CNC machine is going for support.

njhussey
21-08-2013, 10:13 AM
Shed base has been done for a week or so and this morning at 6.30am the shed was delivered. Trouble is that as of Friday I'm away on holiday for a week so all I'll be doing is unpacking it from the grass verge tonight and moving it into the garden and covering it with a tarpaulin until I can start assembling it after I get back from hols. Then the router build will begin as I'll have somewhere to work and put the router!

9591

9592

JAZZCNC
21-08-2013, 10:27 AM
You need a shed building party.!! . . .shame your so far away has I'd come help throw it up in exchange for burger and couple of :beer: . . . Actually got relatives in Hereford not seen for a long time so maybe could still happen . .Lol

Or Maybe next time when it's router building party time. . :yahoo:

Wobblycogs
21-08-2013, 10:31 AM
If you need a hand putting the shed up give me a shout, I'm only just the other side of town after all (I take it you've moved to Gloucester now?). I can lean on a wall to keep it upright with the best of them.

All I ask if you pick a sunny day for the build, last time I helped a friend with some building work it tipped it down on us all day to the point where the site ended up flooded.

P.S. You're shed looks suspiciously like a very short and boxy car :tennis:

njhussey
21-08-2013, 10:44 AM
Hmmmm shed building party......:yahoo:

This is what it should look like once assembled.....depends on how many beers I've had when putting it together :very_drunk:

9593

Yes Graham I've been living in Gloucester now (officially!) for a month. Can't wait to put the shed up (yes might take you up on the offer of a hand :thumsup: ) so I can get my tools (and all my RC models) out of storage and start making a mess...

WandrinAndy
25-08-2013, 12:48 PM
How about a shed/workshop build thread? I always enjoy those..... :wink:

njhussey
02-09-2013, 09:47 AM
How about a shed/workshop build thread? I always enjoy those..... :wink:

Got back from holiday early hours of Sunday so nothing doing on the shed build. Busy all week in the evenings so the schedule for building it is this weekend....weather permitting!! Will put up some pics of the build :)

njhussey
07-09-2013, 08:15 PM
Pics of this afternoons work. Started at 3.15 and finished at 7..,

Before Starting.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/hyma4y9e.jpg

After taking the tarpaulin off.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/de4ejyna.jpg

After 3/4 hour.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/yjypupud.jpg

Window in.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/3yga7ese.jpg

Almost done the sides.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/aruzavuz.jpg

Purlins in ready to roof tomorrow.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/hazuzamu.jpg

njhussey
07-09-2013, 08:17 PM
Few more pics.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/u5eve3ej.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/7yhy9uny.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/08/arerubus.jpg

Roofing to be done tomorrow and also the wood preserver...

irving2008
07-09-2013, 08:58 PM
Looking good, but are the sticky out-y corners permanent? What do you plan to line the inside of walls/door/roof with?

EddyCurrent
07-09-2013, 10:14 PM
irving, the sticky out-y corners will be permanent because they form a series of halving joints, if you cut them off the thing would fall to pieces.

I don't know what you plan to line the shed with but I found celotex (50mm thick) from the local builders merchant to be good, it's a thermal insulation but it can also attenuate noise. Because it's quite soft you would need thin plywood over the top, thickness appropriate to what you want to hang off it. Of course this reduces the inside of the shed by over 100mm each way.

irving2008
07-09-2013, 11:49 PM
You might want to use more.. 75mm on walls and 100+ on roof and the version with a vapour barrier built in unless you want to leave an air gap between the Celotex and the shed wall. If you search on the thread of my (now temporarily aborted) workshop build you'll find a discussion on thermal calcs you might find useful.

njhussey
08-09-2013, 08:40 PM
Cheers Irving, I'll check out that thread.

A couple mor photos of this afternoon's progress. Not huge amounts as I only had a couple of hours and I forgot to fetch my step ladders so couldn't finish the roof.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/09/yzybe2et.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/09/ujapa5u7.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/09/e6atagan.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/09/5use6e6e.jpg

JAZZCNC
08-09-2013, 09:50 PM
. .You made it out of lolly pop sticks .. . :hysterical: . . . . Looking good.:thumsup:

Wobblycogs
08-09-2013, 10:41 PM
Good job on the shed, it's gone up in double quick time. If you want some more information on insulating a shed have a look over on UKWorkshop (http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/). Shed builds come up fairly often and the question of insulation must have come up dozens of times. The other problem that comes up often with sheds is condensation on tools, people have come up with some ingenious ideas for ways to stop things going rusty but the best option seems to pretty much always be ventilation.

EddyCurrent
08-09-2013, 10:56 PM
The other problem that comes up often with sheds is condensation on tools, people have come up with some ingenious ideas for ways to stop things going rusty but the best option seems to pretty much always be ventilation.

It's very wet up here in Cumbria so I have the shed pretty much sealed and use a dehumidifier. Because my material is hardwood it keeps the moisture content of that right too.

njhussey
08-09-2013, 10:57 PM
. .You made it out of lolly pop sticks .. . :hysterical: . . . . Looking good.:thumsup:

Big lolly pop sticks :) quite surprising that its just slotted together without much fastening...4 storm braces are all that's stopping the roof from blowing off! I'll take their word that that's enough to do the job!!

njhussey
09-09-2013, 02:33 PM
I know it's a bit of a cop out but at some time in the next 12 - 18 months I'll be moving house as this one is rented (somewhere bigger and preferably with a garage) so I don't want to make a shed/workshop that is too difficult to dismantle (with this one I just take the roof off and pull apart the lollypop sticks :thumsup:) so I'm a bit loathed to start battening the interior, putting insulation on and then boarding out. However I do see the need to insulate and make damp proof as I'll have my RC stuff in there as well as my CNC router. The other thing is that if I start fixing battens to the walls then I'm stopping the walls from expanding and contracting which is what the manufacturer says you have to do (and who am I to argue!!) so in a bit of a quandary. I think I'll settle for thinner than optimal insulation and look at how I'm going to fix the battening (slotted fixings perhaps?) but all this is immaterial until I can finish the shed off which I'm hoping to do after work this week!!

Wobblycogs
09-09-2013, 02:44 PM
Obviously not a job for now but looking at the way the shed is built I wonder if you could attach insulation to the outside? The ears would act as a natural edge for the insulation and somewhere to fix light boarding. It looks like you have pretty good overhang on the roof everywhere but the back so you might be good to go. It would be good to maintain the space on the inside and it would make hanging tools up easier - just bang a nail in.

njhussey
09-09-2013, 03:32 PM
There's about 8" of overhang all round so I guess it could be an option?

EddyCurrent
09-09-2013, 05:00 PM
8x4 sheets of celotex would just wedge into place between floor and ceiling with maybe a batten top and bottom, same with the roof, they would wedge in those beams nicely with minimal fixing.

WandrinAndy
10-09-2013, 05:24 AM
Obviously not a job for now but looking at the way the shed is built I wonder if you could attach insulation to the outside? The ears would act as a natural edge for the insulation and somewhere to fix light boarding. It looks like you have pretty good overhang on the roof everywhere but the back so you might be good to go. It would be good to maintain the space on the inside and it would make hanging tools up easier - just bang a nail in.

Great idea Wobbly.... Now that's what I really call..... Thinking Outside The Box!

njhussey
10-09-2013, 06:03 PM
Great idea Wobbly.... Now that's what I really call..... Thinking Outside The Box!

Good one Andy!! The only issue with doing the outside of the shed/log cabin is that it obscures the logs which look better than shiplap (in my opinion)...

~andy
11-09-2013, 12:38 PM
The only issue with doing the outside of the shed/log cabin is that it obscures the logs which look better than shiplap (in my opinion)...

You can buy loglap.. If that's you sort of thing!

Worth warning that your walls might shrink a bit in height. So if you batten directly to them, without giving them room to move or you might get some gaps. Looks really smart inside.

njhussey
11-09-2013, 01:20 PM
~andy, I don't really want to buy more loglap to put over the outside to make it look like a log cabin again (seems silly to cover it up and then pay extra to make it look like it did before you covered it up in the first place...!!) so will probably go for insulating on the inside and losing some room inside. Will probably batten horizontally (air gap) then put Celotex insulation against this and then sheets of ply 12mm thick.

njhussey
12-09-2013, 10:22 AM
Was hoping to finish the roof off yesterday on the shed but it was raining all last night and tonight I'm out so it's going to have to be Friday. I've only got another 12 or so boards to put on and then the felt so should only be a couple of hours work, although manhandling the felt roll on the roof will be fun! Oh and I need to attach the guttering. Hoping to visit B&Q and get some 3x2 to make a workbench frame at some stage soon as well so I can crack on with my build (and build a couple of new RC helicopters...)

Last night I ordered the THK (15mm) & NSK (20mm) linear rails from eBay so this project is starting to move on a bit now at last. Managed to get a 1190mm long pair of 15mm rails with 8 blocks so I can cut it down to 750mm and 420mm and get both Y & Z axis rails out of it, worked out cheaper than buying 2 separate lots. Total for the rails was £405 including shipping, so I'll get caught for some import duty but not too much I hope. Just had notice that they've been shipped so I'd best get busy finalising my design and start fabricating the frame :eagerness: Going to order the ballscrews today from Chai...

Thinking of getting an Evolution Fury 5 table saw to cut my Aluminium plate into the correct sizes as they say (and show on the videos) that it can cut aluminium and steel...we'll see!

njhussey
13-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Just swapped the supported round rail for linear rails and also turned the Z axis 180° so the chips will not collect on the ballscrew or mount. I've also dropped the Z axis stepper behind the upright and it will be connected by belt (1605 with 1:1 connection to the stepper) It will have a cover over/round it and I'll look at making a cover for the rest of the Z axis. I've now gained 50mm of Z travel so total travel now 200mm. For the Z axis rail mounts I've had to raise them on some 20mm plate strips to get the 1605 ballscrew in there. Will have to make a low profile mount but that's the least of my worries!

Changing the X axis to single stepper and belt drive, yet to work out the finer details of supporting/tensioning pulleys.

Anything that you peeps can see that could do with altering? I've tried to keep most of the plates with straight edges so I can cut them myself. the only ones I've left with curves and machining are the Y axis end plates. I could always make these with straight edges and no machining!

The actual router frame is removable from the upright frame so that If so wished it can be put on a flat surface if ever required. Also for working on (pouring epoxy resin for levelling the rails for example) it will be easier than trying to tip the whole frame.

10095

10096

10097

kingcreaky
13-09-2013, 03:28 PM
i really like it neil.

stupid question, and one im sure you have already though about it, but incase you havent, the total height (when on vertical stand) is going to fit in your new shed right? cant remember your total dimensions...

njhussey
13-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Thank you!!

Yes shed is 2.4m at the apex and just over 2m at the sides. This is 1.8m total height....also got double doors so can get it in and out again...

kingcreaky
13-09-2013, 03:41 PM
also... dont get stung like i did initially on the accessable area... remember you have lots of wasted accessable area at the top of your machine... where you could perhaps extend the bed or add a vice etc... and there is a void of unaccesssable space at the bottom...10098

njhussey
13-09-2013, 04:21 PM
I was thinking about that earlier. I was going to shorten the bottom and put a vice on but then decided to reverse the Y axis to stop chips from collecting on the ballscrew and bearings. Don't fancy having a vice at the top but might shorten the bed and make provision for a 4th axis.

The cutting area I was aiming for was 1000mm x 500mm and this just about gives me this so was going to leave as is but you've tempted me to have another look :whistle:

JAZZCNC
13-09-2013, 05:10 PM
Ok here's things I see with this and learnt from mine being vertical.

The Machine frame, (not holding frame) needs much more bracing esp at the open ends. The 2 short uprights will flex if not braced well, triangulate much has possible.

Chips which fly up will collect in several places on way down so think about covers or deflector guards. Collection areas are:
#1 Against the rails on Y axis so on the top side just in front of rail with enough clearance for bearing to slide by put a short angled deflector/catch plate which they hit first and slide off.

#2 The Ball-nut mounts so again some form of angled deflector plate wrapping over the mount with hole for screw to pass thru, won't hurt to build in a wiper seal has well. Chips don't collect so much on screw but they do around the ballnut where screw enters on top side so this is the target area to keep chip free.

#3 The bottom bearing mounts.! Same deal just some form of deflector guard so chips hit that first and bounce off.

#4 THE BIG ONE . . .Complete Z axis cover needed FROM THE START. While turning 180deg you have lessened the chip collection points BUT they will get in there and the ONLY way is full cover. They are easy made with thin Ali plate and weigh nothing not the prettiest things but very affective. Something Like this
1010010101

Also while turning 180deg helps keep chips off rear of front plate it will also make it very awkward for when your changing tools.? The way you have it When doing jobs with several tools you'll have to lower gantry to reach spindle properly and that will mean leaning over gantry so will be very awkward.
Much better to raise gantry and access spindle from below, I have my screen setup with tool change position where gantry goes to top and Z axis parks in centre of gantry. This brings me to #5

#5 Not chip related but relates to parking the machine when not used. You want to build in some bump stops at the bottom and when not using park it there to release any tension on motors/screws/belts etc.
On my machine I just have some thick rubber dougnuts with slit in which slip over screws and sandwich between bottom bearing mount and ballnut which i slowly drive upto, simple but affective.! . . But if was building from scratch like you then I'd build in some permanent bump stops, either fixed or flip up jobs.?

#6 Not a biggie but still worth doing else it will annoy I'm sure.?. . . Put the side covers on the inside of frame not outside has again chips will collect and build up, have the inside walls smooth and uninterrupted and chips will slide nice into box below.

That's it for now if spot owt else i'll shout. .Lol

Edit: All the above with exception of beefing up frame work are Minor things and even if left uncovered won't affect machine working properly just annoying and over time will cause premature wear which is easily avoided with simple deflectors or covers.
Don't necessarily need to cover every thing just deflect chips away.!!

JAZZCNC
13-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Said I shout up if seen anything else, well I have. . Lol

Looks like you are thinking to use the slotted front gantry style.? Well the way yo have it now it will eventually fill up with chips. .. Doh.
. . Even with brush guards they will get thru.!

The slotted gantry is great because it keeps every thing neat tidy and protected and it will work perfect turned other way just not this way. . .Sorry.!

njhussey
14-09-2013, 07:06 PM
Cheers Jazz ill look at the design again and take into account your comments...

This afty was finishing the shed off. Well nearly as got to go out in a bit so had to stop. Its all done apart from the boards on the roof edge at one end but as the boards need altering I've run out if time. Given it a coat of clear preservative so should be ok when it rains. Still needs another couple of coats to be on the safe side.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/15/mupy6asa.jpg

JAZZCNC
14-09-2013, 08:08 PM
Looking good Neil.

I'm a little concerned thou that your going to put a heavy frame of that flimsy looking wooden floor.!! Let me tell you when this machine gets moving around it will Rock that shed so much you'll think Pink Floyd is in there.. Lol

You will Seriously need to strengthen floor and brace the inside walls for the size machine you have planned, honestly can stress the amount of inertia and movement the machine will send thru that shed if frame and structure is not Rock solid will blow your mind.
When my my machine was horizontal and not bolted to floor then on full tilt it would easily walk about the workshop when doing jobs with lots or direction changes.
Even now it's vertical and bolted to Concrete block wall if I put my hand on wall when cutting fast materials like woods I can feel the wall vibrate so your shed walls will quiver like a jelly if not solid.!

njhussey
14-09-2013, 11:04 PM
Dean, the plan is to put a second floor of 18mm ply screwed to it and then bolt the machine through the floor and into the base which has 12 4" x 4" posts concreted into the ground. I'll insulate the walls with Celotex and skin it with 12mm ply. This will be screwed to the walls and braced round the top and bottom. Its only a temporary shed/workshop until we move so hopefully it won't shake itself to bits before then!!

JAZZCNC
14-09-2013, 11:39 PM
Dean, the plan is to put a second floor of 18mm ply screwed to it and then bolt the machine through the floor and into the base which has 12 4" x 4" posts concreted into the ground.

Ah Ok that sounds a good plan I'd hate for you to tip your new shed over on first job. . Lol

Michael Marino has his machine in similar sized shed which is super organised with shelf's etc and I remember when took it up to him saying about machine shaking shed and stuff falling off. . . . He'd only had crappy merchant dice snail before this machine and think he thought I was joking.!! . . . He soon realised I wasn't when it tried to walk off the bench and out the door. . . Lol . . . . . And that was at half it's capable speed.!!

That machine and gantry was half the size and weight yours will be.!!!!! . . . . Fasten it well.. .Lol

njhussey
16-09-2013, 10:29 AM
Ordered one lot of linear rails 1190mm long with 8 blocks on Thursday night, they arrived from Korea today at 8.45am......that's fast...straight through and no stopping at customs (if you know what I mean :yahoo: ) These I'll cut into two lengths, one 750mm long for the Y axis and one 420mm long for the Z axis. Ordered the ballscrews from Chai today so waiting on one more lot of linear rails (1390mm long for X axis) and the ballscrews and then I can start the build in earnest!

10140

10141

10142

10143

Wobblycogs
16-09-2013, 11:10 AM
The shed's looking good as are the rails. I got stung for fifty quid and a two and half week delay with the rails I imported, I obviously don't have any luck at the moment.

njhussey
16-09-2013, 11:28 AM
I was lucky, not complaining as I've always had the fee (which I don't mind as it's the law) on imported stuff so a bit of a change. You got your steppers and drivers yet? Which ones you going for? I was thinking of the Leadshine AM882 from Zapp and the Nema 23 3.1Nm stepper motors from cnc4you...plus looking at making my own (gulp...) PSU.

Wobblycogs
16-09-2013, 11:35 AM
Erm, snap on all items (even where I was planning on buying them) :glee:. From what I've read they seem like a good combination of parts. I'd probably have made some purchases by now but I've been looking into getting one of these PMDX-107 (http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-107) for spindle control. I doubt I'll set up spindle control straight away but if I can order the part at the same time as the BOB that would be good. I take it you've seen this (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/stepper-servo-motors/5075-confirming-psu-spec-steppers.html) thread about building a PSU?

njhussey
16-09-2013, 12:05 PM
Sounds like yours and my machines electrics will be the same :encouragement: I was going to look into the closed loop system but for what I'll be using it for I couldn't really justify the extra. I've also been looking at that as I was wondering if I could use the PWM output to control my RC Speed Controller which will be powering my spindle. Sounds like some combined purchases could be made here!!! Yes seen a few threads, I'm fine mechanically but anything electrical leaves me cold...

Wobblycogs
16-09-2013, 12:19 PM
I own a soldering iron and I even switched it on once...

I'm actually quite interested in the electronics I just don't really have time to learn as much about it as I would like. I think I'll probably build the PSU as it's only a dozen or so components, more complicated magic will have to wait.

If you want to get together for a brain storm on the electrics or to put together a combined purchase just give me a shout.

njhussey
16-09-2013, 12:57 PM
More than happy to get together for a brainstorm on the electrics, would be good if we both have the same as then we can help each other out (seeing as we only live a couple of miles apart!) in case of problems. I'm definitely going to build my own PSU but will need to check from the experts on here that I'm getting the correct parts.


Will give you a shout when it's time to get the electrics, in turn give me a shout if you're ready before me to get them as I'm going to concentrate on the build of the frame first as the electrical bits have a 12 month warranty and I'll want that to be as near as possible to the end of the build...

njhussey
16-09-2013, 04:29 PM
101461014710150OK Dean, switched the gantry around again to how it was before. Have put a folded aluminium enclosure over the Z axis, on the bottom of the Z there will be a rubber cover (5mm thick rubber with cut outs for the rails) to stop chips going up into the bearings. Have put deflectors on the X axis to stop chips hitting the linear rail, also put a deflector down the bottom so chips slide into the bin. Have altered the ballscrew mounting so it's on 20mm block and not the aluminium box section as I'm not using that anymore. I will also put a cover over the X axis belt and steppers.

Couple of questions now...

I'm going to use 1 stepper and belt (T5, 15mm wide) and pulleys to drive the X axis, what number teeth pulleys would you recommend? I take it that it's worth getting spare pulleys and belts so that the option of 1:1 and 1:2 (stepper to ballscrew) is available?
For the belt idlers/tensioners I was going to use skate bearings (as I've got sh*t loads of them) and penny washers, I couldn't see any specific idlers for the belts?

JAZZCNC
17-09-2013, 12:02 AM
Couple of questions now...

I'm going to use 1 stepper and belt (T5, 15mm wide) and pulleys to drive the X axis, what number teeth pulleys would you recommend? I take it that it's worth getting spare pulleys and belts so that the option of 1:1 and 1:2 (stepper to ballscrew) is available?
For the belt idlers/tensioners I was going to use skate bearings (as I've got sh*t loads of them) and penny washers, I couldn't see any specific idlers for the belts?


Depends on how your having belt system.? My machine is setup with 2 pulleys bolted together on one screw with a single pulley on other. A short belt goes from motor to first pulley then connecting belt goes between screws. The ratio is 1:2 motor with 40T and first pulley 20T Connecting pulleys are 36T. I then have 2 spare pulleys for 1:1 or 1:3 ratio 20T & 60T.
Connecting pulleys could easily be 20T for simplicity sake but I just happened to have spare 36T so used them.

Don't go smaller than 20T other wise you don't get good tooth engagement and the belts wear quicker or worse they can jump. I'd also use HTD belts/pulleys not T5 has thou they are very similar the HTD just seem better fitting belt.

Yep skate bearings and large Penny washers work fine for idlers.!!

njhussey
17-09-2013, 09:55 AM
I was thinking along the lines of this, but measuring it is just over 2000mm long so might have to re-think it...oh and before someone comments I know it will have to be a belt and not a piece of string :rolleyes:

10164

Wobblycogs
17-09-2013, 10:07 AM
Nice bit of string you've got there ;-)

Looks like your coming to much the same conclusion I did. I'm sure a belt will work but it's certainly a long belt. I decided I'd rather use two steppers and have the open back that I could shove long work out if needed. Feels like one of those six of one half a dozen of the other decisions.

njhussey
17-09-2013, 11:12 AM
I'm not planning on being able to shove long work in and out, won't be practical anyway as I'm limited by the roof and floor as mine's almost vertical. I've just added some bracing to the legs so that's made the cutting area smaller with my previous width of Z axis....so I've narrowed it. I'm hoping that it's not too narrow, it's now 145mm wide. I'll have to check the 15mm carriages but I think they'll be ok at that width...

1016510166

njhussey
18-09-2013, 02:56 PM
Just been looking at PV solar panels, leisure batteries and charge controllers for the shed so I can have some 12V LED lighting in there as well as being able to charge my RC LIPOs etc...interesting little project :biggrin:

Broken the different frames out and coloured them so they stand out a bit more, also did it with them all together.

101721017310171

Wobblycogs
18-09-2013, 03:03 PM
I've got a friend who's PV mad, he's just bought a load of panels so I can ask him what he's got if you'd like?

njhussey
18-09-2013, 03:28 PM
Yes if you could please. I am looking at 2 leisure batteries 115ah each, 2 x 100w panels and a 20A charge controller. All in about £250.00

Jonathan
18-09-2013, 03:39 PM
I've got two 92Ah 12V batteries that I'd consider selling. They're these ones:
Enersys PowerSafe 12V92F - 12V 92Ah VRLA Battery £0.00 - Industrial Batteries - High Rate VRLA - Enersys V Range - Front Terminal FIAMM Batteries | C&D Technologies Batteries | YUASA Batteries | Enersys Batteries | Scooter Batteries | Lawnmower Batte (http://www.blueboxbatteries.co.uk/enersys-powersafe-12v92f---12v-92ah-vrla-battery~385)
I've barely used them, but had them a while. I've charged them every few months though to stop them degrading. No idea what they're worth..

For the solar panels you're best off looking on eBay. A few months ago I got four new certified 190W panels for £120 each, then another two the same for £100 each. They're now on the shed roof and grid tied with an inverter also from eBay.

njhussey
18-09-2013, 03:51 PM
That's where I was looking, on ebay. The batteries that I was looking at are these 2 X 12v NEW 110AH LOW HEIGHT LEISURE BATTERIES NEW | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-12v-NEW-110AH-LOW-HEIGHT-LEISURE-BATTERIES-NEW-/181218437416?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item2a3175e928), the panels are these ones 200W solar panels-2x100W 12V Photovoltaic PV Solar Panel Module 12V RV Boat | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190904258614?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) and the charge controller is this one Biard 20 Amp Solar PV Panel Charge Controller - Protects Battery - LED Indicator | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151114888951?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)

Not so sure I'll grid tie them but might look at an inverter to run some bits in the shed as I'm in rented accommodation now and don't want to pay for altering the electrics. If I do look at getting an inverter then I might get more batteries and solar panels as I'm only going to be in the shed for a couple of hours every evening (well only if SWMBO allows!) and on the weekends.

Certainly something to look into!

Wobblycogs
18-09-2013, 04:09 PM
I heard back from my friend, he reckons you'll be doing well to get it all for £250 (at least if it's all new). The panels will probably go up in price quite a bit, he reckons you'll end up paying about £100 per 100W panel. Also don't forget that unless you can charge the heli batteries direct from the LA batteries you'll need an inverter a decent one of which will set you back a bit.

njhussey
18-09-2013, 04:32 PM
Yes I wasn't looking properly, the panels are about £100 each! I can connect the batteries in series to get 24V so I can charge my batteries (5000mAh 6 cell 22.2V ones) in parallel with my large charger.

njhussey
20-09-2013, 01:35 PM
Spent an hour in the shed last night (half of it in the dark working by the light of the street lamp :smile: ) and knocked up a workbench. I'd calculated the lengths exactly and as is always the way I was rushing and cut the wrong piece so one leg (was going to put a leg in the middle of the bench as 6' long) missing. Still it's enabled me to tidy some bits away for the moment which should allow me to bring more stuff back from the fiancé's parents garage! Just got to get my bum in gear and make some shelves, though I'm away this weekend taking the daughter to Uni for the first time.
On another note I've just paid the import VAT and rip off fee (sorry clearance fee) for Parcelforce so should get my remaining linear rails on Monday. Just had the postie drop off some energy chain purchased on fleabay so components are building up! Best stop fannying around with my design and get buying some steel so I can cut and weld it to get on with the build!!
I've added braces at either end now to make it nice and ridged, also will be good when I come to do the self levelling epoxy for the X axis rail beds!
10179
I've tried to keep a fair bit of the gantry as straight cuts but have the end plates to get machined and a slot in the front plate for the Y axis ballnut mount to be machined.
Question is.....do I get the square bits machined as well so the faces are flat and square or will the ends be ok as cut?
Next question is....does anyone fancy doing some machining for me? I've got a nice piece of 20mm Ali (1000 x 800) sat on a pallet waiting to be cut up...

JAZZCNC
20-09-2013, 07:16 PM
Next question is....does anyone fancy doing some machining for me? I've got a nice piece of 20mm Ali (1000 x 800) sat on a pallet waiting to be cut up...

Email me models or dxf's of what you want doing and I'll take a look. I'll PM you it.

Jonathan
20-09-2013, 07:19 PM
Email me models or dxf's of what you want doing and I'll take a look. I'll PM you it.

Same here ;)
Or just post the drawings?

njhussey
21-09-2013, 07:06 PM
Going to draw it up in a meaningful package as its in Sketchup at the moment. Got SW so will have a play with that and do some proper drawings. Either that or just do them in CAD :)

njhussey
23-09-2013, 10:22 AM
1390mm long 20mm NSK linear rails came in at 8.30 this morning so I have all my rails now. Just need to inspect them but they're wrapped pretty well and the box isn't too mangled so I'm hoping they're straight still! Hoping Chai sends my ballscrews (1610 for X & Y and 1605 for Z) soon. Ordering steel today hopefully, just waiting on prices back...

njhussey
25-09-2013, 04:44 PM
Well checking the FEDEX tracking number Chai gave me and my ball screws are in France at the moment!
Remembering Kingcreaky's build thread where he got different ball nut housings than he thought he was getting I asked Chai for the data sheet. Good job I did as they are different from what I thought I'd be getting (best ask before ordering next time just to make sure!) so I'd best re-draw them and adjust the mounting points accordingly...

JAZZCNC
25-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Good job I did as they are different from what I thought I'd be getting (best ask before ordering next time just to make sure!) so I'd best re-draw them and adjust the mounting points accordingly...

That's exactly why I won't make parts for folks unless dimensions are taken directly off the parts or they have them in hand so know which data sheets to work from.! . . .Even then I prefer them in my hands so I can do the measuring.!!

njhussey
25-09-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm drawing up the gantry plates at the moment in Draftsight so should have some CAD models soon. I'm in two minds whether to do the end plates with slots in so the top/bottom/front plates are located in the end plates (remember seeing something like that on a build you did for someone) or whether to fit the end plate on square to the ends and have less machining?
Yes I'm waiting to get all the bits in my grubby paws before doing the final drawings just for that reason, so I can check all components are as they should be...

njhussey
26-09-2013, 02:52 PM
Got my delivery from Chai today...thought I'd got all 1605's but then took a closer look and all was correct! From me paying to them arriving at my door was 9 working days. Excuse the out of focus pics but they were taken on my phone :)

1023510236102371023810239

njhussey
30-09-2013, 05:59 PM
OK Chaps a couple of questions if I may. I'm rapidly pulling all the bits together and just want to check that I'm not going to start this build and then just when I get going come to a grinding halt because I've overlooked something! Below is a list of what I have and what I think I still need to get. Can you take a look at it and suggest what else I've forgotten please?

Items already purchased
• 1000mm x 800mm x 20mm Aluminium Plate (eBay)
• 2200mm x 950mm x 10mm 6082 Aluminium plate (eBay)
• X axis 20mm NSK linear rails 1300mm long & 4 carriages (eBay)
• Y axis 15mm THK linear rails 750mm long & 4 carriages (eBay)
• Z axis 15mm THK linear rails 440mm long & 4 carriages (eBay)
• NEMA 23 3Nm steppers x 3
• AM882 drivers x 3
• PDMX 126 BOB
• X axis ballscrews x 2 1325mm long with Ballscrew, ballscrew housing and Fixed and floating end bearings and housings (Chai)
• Y axis ballscrews 750mm long with Ballscrew, ballscrew housing and Fixed and floating end bearings and housings (Chai)
• Z axis ballscrews 415mm long with Ballscrew, ballscrew housing and Fixed and floating end bearings and housings (Chai)
• 1 set of ER16 collets 2mm through to 10mm (Chai)
• 2.5m of IGUS 15 series 36mm x 24mm energy chain (eBay)
• 6 off mechanical limit switches (also have 6 off PNP Proxy switches in case I want to use them instead of mechanical switches) (eBay and cou”work”gh)
• E-Stop button
• Homemade 1.7kW brushless outrunner spindle (Me!!)
• 100mm x 50mm x 4mm 7.5m length of steel
• 50mm x 50mm x 4mm 7.5m length of steel
• 50mm x 25mm x 4mm 7.5m length of steel
• 24V 47A (twin server PSU’s) PSU for the spindle
• 75A ESC & Servo tester for the spindle

Items to be purchased
• PSU (parts as will make one)
• CY cable (will ask our works electrician if he has any going spare…)
• Cable Tray (as above)
• 5mm pitch HTD Pulleys and belts (lengths of belts still to be fixed)
• Bespoke Z axis Ballnut mount (one of you hopefully??!!)
• Epoxy for levelling the X axis rail beds
• Spindle mount to be machined (again one of you hopefully??!!)
• Various size taps for tapping all the holes

There are more bits that I think I need but at the moment I can't think....that's where you experienced chaps come in :eagerness:

JAZZCNC
30-09-2013, 06:09 PM
There are more bits that I think I need but at the moment I can't think....that's where you experienced chaps come in :eagerness:

Hundreds of nut's & bolts and Screws.!! . . . . Kid you not 200 bolts go no where.!! . . . DONT buy cheap taps and get spiral flute they make life easy.

Good electrical cabinet to put it all in and trunking to separate power and signal cables etc.

Now start building and stop over thinking because you'll never account for everything and plans will change has you go along.!!

Jonathan
30-09-2013, 06:11 PM
What's special about the Z-axis ballnut mount that causes you to need a custom one?

The PSUs you've got for the spindle sound good. Do you have a source for them for a reasonable price?

njhussey
30-09-2013, 07:05 PM
Nuts bolts etc I'll get from one of my works suppliers...

Its a low profile one to fit between the Z axis plates without more machining, I'll put a pic up later if I've got one at home.

PSUs are Dell server PSUs which you can pick up off eBay. Normally twinned to get 24V by floating the earth on one and putting in series...or so I'm led to believe!

njhussey
30-09-2013, 11:36 PM
Hundreds of nut's & bolts and Screws.!! . . . . Kid you not 200 bolts go no where.!! . . . DONT buy cheap taps and get spiral flute they make life easy.

Good electrical cabinet to put it all in and trunking to separate power and signal cables etc.

Now start building and stop over thinking because you'll never account for everything and plans will change has you go along.!!

I'll get some more spiral flute ones Dean!

I'll ask our electrical engineer to get me a cabinet, probably a Sarel one as well as the trunking...

Will be starting the frame once the steel gets here which hopefully will be in the next day or so. Will get it cut up before work and at lunch and then start the welding bit by bit. Can't do it at home as no 16A sockets :(

JAZZCNC
01-10-2013, 01:18 AM
Can't do it at home as no 16A sockets :(

Just bang an old nail in fuse it'll be ok for a few hours welding. .:loyal:

njhussey
01-10-2013, 11:31 AM
It's one of them new fangled fuse boxes with little plastic trippy things so you can't wrap tin foil round the fuse or bang a nail in.... :(

~andy
01-10-2013, 12:11 PM
Got an electric oven? That will probably be on a 32 amp radial. I'm clearly not suggesting you pop the isolating switch off the oven and have the wire running out of your kitchen window. That would be irresponsible.

njhussey
01-10-2013, 12:25 PM
Andy, for a nano second I did think about it ;) .....however I'd have to have some sort of beefy extension lead going to the shed as it's a good 15 meters away from the cooker! I did think about getting a 5.5kv genny too but the cost was too much as I'd not really use is and its a new build so all the houses are crammed together so the neighbours would complain... simple solution is that I'll weld it at work, we have all the kit as it's what we do here!

firetrappe
03-10-2013, 07:59 PM
Neil, I've really enjoyed reading your build thread. Nice to see a few fellow RC guys on the forum too.

Have you thought about building a vac-bed to use with your machine? With the thinner, light-weight material we modellers tend to use, a few people I know have found them really useful. With your machine being vertical it might be even more of an advantage?

My plan is to build one that can be used for cutting thin sheet materials but also removable for machining thicker materials.

Si.

njhussey
04-10-2013, 10:22 AM
Hi Si, thanks for the comments! It's not much of a build thread at the moment, more of a rambling design changing exercise...however I've now got nearly all the components (the steel came in yesterday) so I'll actually be starting the build soon :yahoo:

I have thought about a vac bed but I just want to get the build done. Will probably have one that can be put on the bed and taken off for other stuff (just like you) but how soon that gets done remains to be seen!! I also want to build a Vac former (for canopies, cowls etc) and a CNC 4 axis foam cutter for wing panels....already accumulating bits for the foam cutter :tongue:

njhussey
07-10-2013, 03:37 PM
Well as Jazz says I've stopped fannying around with it and cut the first couple of bits of steel to length so it's all go now at long bl**dy last :applouse:

Going to cut the rest of the steel before work and during lunch over the next few days. Hoping to start welding it up next week. It's going to be bloody heavy, I'm not looking forward to lifting it on my own as according to my calcs it'll weigh 74.4kg.

Will update with pics once I've started the welding as pics of cut lengths of steel aren't all that exciting...

Wobblycogs
07-10-2013, 03:44 PM
Give me a shout when you're finished and I'll help you get it from the car to the shed. I wouldn't want to see "Man crushed by CNC" headlines in the local paper.

JAZZCNC
07-10-2013, 04:22 PM
Well as Jazz says I've stopped fannying around with it and cut the first couple of bits of steel to length so it's all go now at long bl**dy last :applouse:

Good Man and to Quote one my Youtube hero's Keith Fenner "Get Er Done"


It's going to be bloody heavy, I'm not looking forward to lifting it on my own as according to my calcs it'll weigh 74.4kg.

Now add at least 50% more then imagine 25% of that Whizzing up and down back n forth and should give you some clue to how that shed is going to Rock n Roll. . :yahoo: . . . . . Anchor it down Well mate.!

njhussey
07-10-2013, 04:30 PM
I intend to anchor it down well. I'm going to put a layer of 18mm ply on the floor (to bring the floor total thickness to 36mm) as support and bolt through the shed floor to the baseframe. If it still 'Rock n Rolls' then I'll pour some concrete under the base and bolt down direct into that :eagerness:

njhussey
07-10-2013, 06:01 PM
What's special about the Z-axis ballnut mount that causes you to need a custom one?
These are what I've drawn...
1038310384
I wanted them low profile to cut down on the machining required, i.e. so I don't have to get the Z axis plates machined for clearance and so I can get the rails nearer together which I know is not ideal but as I'm mostly going to be machining balsa, ply and carbon fibre will be fine!

Wobblycogs
07-10-2013, 06:07 PM
They look very similar to these (which I'm planning to buy): Aliexpress.com Ball Nut Housing (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/CNC-BALL-NUT-HOUSING-MOUNTING-BRACKET-FOR-2005-BALL-SCREWS/407448_946453714.html).

If anything I'd say they are lower profile than the one you've drawn up. The bottom bolt holes are in slightly different places but I'd be surprised if that was critical.

Jonathan
07-10-2013, 06:16 PM
Looks like that's for a RM1605 ballnut, but your mounting holes for the nut don't match? The RM1605 holes are on 45 degree spacing and they're 5.5mm diameter holes so you'll struggle to get M6 through them!

JAZZCNC
07-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Looks like that's for a RM1605 ballnut, but your mounting holes for the nut don't match? The RM1605 holes are on 45 degree spacing and they're 5.5mm diameter holes so you'll struggle to get M6 through them!

And this is why I always insist the measurements on the drawings are taken from actual parts rather than Spec sheets taken from the Net.!!
So easy to assume they will be like the drawings only for something completely different to turn up.!! . . . .Thou in this case I reckon it's an Err has most ballnuts of this size use 45 Deg spacing & M5 bolts.?

njhussey
07-10-2013, 11:40 PM
Funnily enough I've taken home one of each item to measure with the vernier calipers ;)

njhussey
08-10-2013, 12:51 PM
They look very similar to these (which I'm planning to buy): Aliexpress.com Ball Nut Housing (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/CNC-BALL-NUT-HOUSING-MOUNTING-BRACKET-FOR-2005-BALL-SCREWS/407448_946453714.html).

If anything I'd say they are lower profile than the one you've drawn up. The bottom bolt holes are in slightly different places but I'd be surprised if that was critical.

I've asked for a price for 4 off (I can't see anything apart from a 3 off listing) so will see what they, well the 1610 ones, come back with as they look exactly what I'm after!

Just received some spiral flute taps from China so once I've welded up the frame (should have all the parts cut by the end of today as I did all the 50x50x4 box this morning and just have the 50x25 bed supports and bracing angles to cut at lunch!) and got some Ali cut for the gantry I can start drilling and tapping to my hearts content :thumsup:
10386
Edit.....yep all steel for the router frame (not support frame) is now cut. Welding starts tomorrow :yahoo:

njhussey
09-10-2013, 02:46 PM
Managed to spend 1/2hr in the works at lunch tacking the frame up, well most of the time was spent clearing the bench and putting it back after :whistle: anyhooo....result is below:
10395
Tomorrow I'll add in the rest of the cross members and if I've got time (I doubt it in the 1/2hr I have available) the braces :yahoo:

njhussey
10-10-2013, 02:53 PM
Todays tacking up....
10402
When putting the first angle brace on an upright I found out that in my haste to cut them I set the angle to 40° not 45° :stupid: :hopelessness:
I would really like a couple of hours in one stint to go at it, I could then get it all tacked up and squared up ready for welding properly.

firetrappe
11-10-2013, 09:00 PM
That's looking really nice so far Neil. Not bad for a couple of 30min lunch breaks!

Slightly off topic, but I found a video that I thought you might like. A neat way of cutting FR4 or CF without the nasty hazardous dust : CNC Fräsen GFK Ruderhörner - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TubEtbU_tI) (make sure you watch the last 30 secs for neat bit of automation).

Si.

jcb121
11-10-2013, 09:54 PM
I've ordered these other ballnut housing (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3PCS-BALL-NUT-HOUSING-MOUNTING-BRACKET-FOR-1605-BALL-SCREWS-NUT-CNC/946280209.html) and in total I bought 4 for about £26~
just purchase but don't pay and then say you want 4 or however many.

I've been welding my frame up and now that I have gas it's going pretty well! though i wish i had as much space as you do!

njhussey
12-10-2013, 12:24 PM
That's looking really nice so far Neil. Not bad for a couple of 30min lunch breaks!

Slightly off topic, but I found a video that I thought you might like. A neat way of cutting FR4 or CF without the nasty hazardous dust : CNC Fräsen GFK Ruderhörner - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TubEtbU_tI) (make sure you watch the last 30 secs for neat bit of automation).

Si.

Cheers Si, happy with it so far just need to press on next week and get it finished.

I'll have a problem cutting CF like that as my router is vertical and for the first little while will have a wood spoil board until I can afford an aluminium one. Then I'll be able to use coolant :)

njhussey
12-10-2013, 12:28 PM
I've ordered these other ballnut housing (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3PCS-BALL-NUT-HOUSING-MOUNTING-BRACKET-FOR-1605-BALL-SCREWS-NUT-CNC/946280209.html) and in total I bought 4 for about £26~
just purchase but don't pay and then say you want 4 or however many.

I think they're the same as I've ordered...


I've been welding my frame up and now that I have gas it's going pretty well! though i wish i had as much space as you do!

It's the works so not really mine, wish it was though!

I'm away for the weekend so nothing getting done until next week now :(

njhussey
15-10-2013, 05:27 PM
Was wondering what to do with the left over steel I've got so had a play at lunchtime with Sketchup...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNnnq6yOfus

GEOFFREY
15-10-2013, 08:22 PM
Looks good Niel (I love fixed gantry). I think you could move the gantry back further if you wanted slightly more travel, and am not even sure you would need the back diagonals. Do it !!! G.

njhussey
16-10-2013, 09:44 AM
Hi G, there's only one slight problem if I built this...where the heck would I put it, going to be tight on space in my little shed as it is!! The design as it is allows maximum travel of the bed so I can cut the whole area (500 x 400) I've got the raised sides (sealed with gaskets/sealant) so I can flood the bed with water when cutting the CF so the dust doesn't go everywhere. TBH I doubt I'd need any of the diagonals for cutting CF and Trafolite but I've got the steel so better safe than sorry!! This could use up all the left over bits I've got from when I bought the rubbish TB6560 control board and steppers, might even be able to use it for engraving labels for work. Spec for this one is very much as per my first post on here with the exception of SBR12 rails and blocks.

njhussey
30-10-2013, 03:05 PM
Well I finally managed to get back onto the shop floor this lunchtime and re-cut the 40° angles to 45°on the supports.....tomorrow I'm going to try to do some more tacking up...depends on if I can get anywhere to weld as the shop floor is a bit busy at the moment. Really want to crack on with this now so I can hopefully have it running before Xmas.

njhussey
31-10-2013, 02:44 PM
PROGRESS.....today I managed to tack up the last of the angle supports and start some of the welding up of the frame. Can tell I've not welded for a couple of years!!!!!:hysterical:

1053910540

Oh yes, judicial use of the angle grinder I think will be needed...

njhussey
01-11-2013, 03:30 PM
Nothing managed today as the area I was using has been set up for SS so I can't go welding and grinding there!! Spent a little time getting the fixed end blocks onto the ballscrews as the screws were a little oversized so couldn't get the bearings on the screw. Have managed to get one on but there's some play in the bearings which will need looking at...disappointing.

firetrappe
02-11-2013, 01:04 PM
Nice to see the bed taking shape Neil. It's a shame the screws/bearings from Chai don't fit properly :( Hope you manage to sort it out.

Si.

njhussey
03-11-2013, 06:12 PM
Cheers Si, I'll put them in the lathe and take some emery paper to them to get them to fit.

Fitted the 2 solar panels to the shed roof and wired them in series into the charge controller and wired the 2 x 115Ah leisure batteries again in series into the controller and.........it works!! Have a small 600W inverter coming next week so should be able to run small things like soldering irons, radios etc. until I decide what my power requirements are.

Installation has loose wires all over the place as I was running out of time this evening but I wanted to prove it all worked. Shed desperately needs tidying as I've been bringing stuff back from storage and just dumping it in there.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/04/gy8a9ute.jpg

njhussey
08-11-2013, 10:53 AM
First time out to the shed since installing to see if its working ok and it is, just need to run the batteries down a bit to see if it charges them as they're topped up now so not being charged.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/08/juhehahu.jpg

Jonathan
08-11-2013, 01:25 PM
Looks like yours are working better than mine the day after I mounted them:

10618

That's after I'd wiped the snow off!

njhussey
11-11-2013, 03:39 PM
Looks like yours are working better than mine the day after I mounted them:

10618

That's after I'd wiped the snow off!
They seem to be pumping out voltage and you can see it fluctuate as the sun comes out. Just bought a plug in electricity cost meter to see what some things consume to see what I'll need. Booked a day off this week so I can sort out the shed as it's a right tip with boxes and RC models scattered and piled up everywhere.
Put the ballscrews in the works lathe and had it on slow today at lunch and took off a couple of thou off the shaft with some emery cloth as it would have been a tight interference fit. Now a nice tight sliding fit on the shaft so happy. Still unhappy that there is play in what should be a fixed bearing, anyone else have this?

njhussey
16-01-2014, 03:06 PM
Well after another couple of months of inactivity I finished welding up the basic frame. I've still got to attach the side rails (and ends) but am unsure whether to bolt them (so I can adjust them so they're level) and then weld them or just weld them as near as possible as I'm going to do the epoxy levelling on them. I presume that It's doubtful that they'll be level enough to mount the linear rails directly on them without some form of levelling? I've no straight edge to measure them with mind...

Attachment shows the frame tacked up previously not welded up before the eagle eyed point this out...!

Wobblycogs
16-01-2014, 03:12 PM
Looking good Neil.

I think I'd just weld rails in place if you're going to epoxy level them. I can't imagine that bolting them first would improve the final outcome by more than a mm or two for fair bit of work. I've got some brackets if you need them though ;-)

njhussey
16-01-2014, 03:16 PM
Cheers Graham, preferred method is to weld them rather than bolt and weld!

njhussey
20-01-2014, 03:07 PM
Today in lunch I finished off a couple of welds on the frame that I missed last week and put the first of the side rails on and tacked the back upper beam on.

Used my bevel box to set the top rail level with the bottom rail. The second rail will be referenced to the first rail later this week when I get back in the workshop.

11333113321133111330

Although you can't see the first reading on the bevel box that well it does say 0.0 and 0.0......much like the second one!!

Once all the rails are welded up then I'll be getting the grinder out (and the welder again to fill any holes etc...!!) to smarten up some of the welds and also to get the bed rail welds flat so the base will sit flush with the frame.

I've still got to cut some squares out to weld in the upright tops for when I do the epoxy levelling. Also got to weld on a couple of stops on the ends to park the gantry up against when not in use.

njhussey
24-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Well after being off sick with stomach cramps for the last 3 days I got into the workshop at lunch to weld the second side rail on and start tidying up the welds. I am quite pleased with the accuracy I got (hopefully) on the rails according to my level box. I referenced the first side rail from the base frame and then using the level I clamped the second rail and referenced that from the base frame front and then kept tapping the rail down with a soft face mallet until it was showing 0.0 & 0.0 all the way from the front to the back. I checked the level again before tacking the rail in place and then checked it again before doing the final welds. I'm still going to epoxy level the rails I think...

I started cleaning up some of the welds but there's a lot of that to be done as my welding is rubbish! I also put on (at Jazz'z suggestion) a piece of 50x6 flat on the end of the rails to act as a stop for the gantry when it goes vertical.
1135211353

EddyCurrent
24-01-2014, 05:36 PM
Looking good, I like the look of the smaller box section for the bed and triangulation. Are you going to block off the ends of the box with those plastic caps ?

JAZZCNC
24-01-2014, 11:26 PM
I started cleaning up some of the welds but there's a lot of that to be done as my welding is rubbish! I also put on (at Jazz'z suggestion) a piece of 50x6 flat on the end of the rails to act as a stop for the gantry when it goes vertical.

At the moment my machine is back on it's feet for some recent repairs and I can tell you I really miss it being vertical.?
Not just for the space but for my Back has leaning over the bloody thing to fasten material has been killing me. Didn't realise just how easy it does make fastening and accessing material while it's working.
Also having to deal with clearing chips again is a pain in the arse and again you don't fully appreciate how much differance it makes until you have to go back.!!

You haven't experienced using flat so you maybe won't fully get what I mean but you will if you ever use it horizontal after being vertical. . .Lol

njhussey
25-01-2014, 10:54 AM
Looking good, I like the look of the smaller box section for the bed and triangulation. Are you going to block off the ends of the box with those plastic caps ?

Thanks Eddie, I'm pretty pleased with how it's turning out...no I'm going to weld plate the ends and grind the welds smooth. Will probably put 20mm thick bits in the bottom and drill and tap M12 for adjustable legs just in case I do leave it horizontal at any time. :)

njhussey
25-01-2014, 11:16 AM
You haven't experienced using flat so you maybe won't fully get what I mean but you will if you ever use it horizontal after being vertical. . .Lol

I'll take your word for it jazz lol I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever get it finished. I just never seem to have any free time...

Looking forward to finishing the frame off next week, getting quite into the fabrication side of things again!

Question for people. How is the best way to DIY cut 20mm Ali accurately? I'm running out of money (wedding is end of March so bills are coming in fast!!). I was thinking of cutting the Ali for the gantry myself to save a couple of quid (plus I like the challenge!) as I don't like the prospect if telling the wife to be that we're not having a cake as I spent the money on machining... ;)

JAZZCNC
25-01-2014, 03:29 PM
I cut 20m Ali plate full depth on my table saw using a carbide tip blade that is so tired it complains at cutting hard woods yet munchs thru Ali.??
(Wear eye protection and cover all exposed flesh has the chips are red hot and hurt like hell.!!)

For shaped parts make some MDF templates and use large router with bearing guided carbide cutter with very shallow passes.! That's how I made my first machines gantry sides and that was with a 12mm cutter.!!!! . . . Which wouldn't recommend so go for 6 or 8mm max.
Other than being a little daunting it worked a treat.!. . . . Thou I will say I was very very experienced with using a Large router free hand so if not used to routers then be careful has they can be a handful.!

njhussey
27-01-2014, 02:47 PM
Couldn't be bothered to set up the bench to do grinding today so though I'd get out the linear rails for the X axis and see how flat they were. Took a quick video (apologies for it being upright!) and the rails are pretty flat.

My question is.....do I need to epoxy then level as they seem pretty damn bloody flat to me as they are now!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIkyrg0vw4s

Wobblycogs
27-01-2014, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure your test of flatness on the x-axis bars is valid because the rails weren't bolted down. If there's a dip in the bar the rail will probably span it but get pulled into it (slightly) when bolted firmly down. I think you'd need a long straight edge and feeler gauges to really figure out if it was flat enough.

As for cutting aluminium my SCMS went though that 10mm you gave me like it wasn't there using a positive rake cross cutting blade - about the worst blade you could use for metal cutting - and left a mirror finish. With a negative rake aluminium blade I'm sure you could do 20mm easily. Watch out for those chips though, as Jazz says, they are bloody hot. As for routing to shape you might want to try a router table instead of a free hand, I think you'd probably get better control over the depth of cut and a finished face this is more perpendicular. The downside of of a router table is that the chips will fall onto and potentially into the router which may not end well. You can pick up a router table insert for very little as long as you don't mind the height adjustment being completely manual.

Jonathan
27-01-2014, 03:04 PM
Forget the spirit level thing - it's nowhere near accurate enough to provide useful readings for rail alignment. When I measured the error on the rails in the recent build log, we were measuring height error to 0.01mm and angular error (rail twist) to 0.003 degrees...I'm not saying you have to do that, but it gives an idea of the tolerances that can be involved if you try and do it properly.

The rails will conform to the surface you bolt them to, so regardless of how straight the rail is to start with, if you bolt it on to a surface which isn't flat, the result will be a rail that isn't flat. Hence you should use epoxy to level the surface.

njhussey
27-01-2014, 04:23 PM
Oh well.....still quite chuffed that I managed to weld them pretty damn level :eagerness: Will carry on grinding and welding and getting ready for pouring the epoxy (best buy some I guess!!) OK another question :) Is it better to drill and tap the holes before epoxying or after? I was thinking before as we have a mag drill at work and that would make drilling the holes much easier first, but then would need to fit the bolts and make sure epoxy doesn't stick to them and then there's the question of the miniscus round the bolt?

Now playing devils advocate here....how much accuracy do I need? There's a CNC router I know of that looks a bit like this.....
11387
which has supported round rails bolted straight to what looks like steel rectangular section and that machine seems to put out some nice accurate shiny aluminium bits :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: I'm mostly going to be cutting balsa, ply, carbon fibre, wood engraving and the odd piece out of aluminium (probably upgrades for the machine itself if most build threads are to be believed...!) so just wondering to what degree I go to with the levelling? I've got nothing to measure the accuracy of the epoxy once it's set and have no way of accurately telling if the rails are flat. I don't want to go out and spend a small fortune on a surface plate or engineers bevelled edge 1300mm long sop suggestions on a postcard please?

kingcreaky
27-01-2014, 04:45 PM
These lot, make you think too much.... think less........

Just do the best you can do with the tools & experience you have. I spent ages in my build worry about this very point, in the end I just got one rail spirit level flat, and set the other one up off that. BOSH

JAZZCNC
27-01-2014, 05:00 PM
Now playing devils advocate here....how much accuracy do I need? There's a CNC router I know of that looks a bit like this.....
so just wondering to what degree I go to with the levelling? I've got nothing to measure the accuracy of the epoxy once it's set and have no way of accurately telling if the rails are flat. I don't want to go out and spend a small fortune on a surface plate or engineers bevelled edge 1300mm long sop suggestions on a postcard please?

Excellent point and your 100% spot on.!!. . . . He's talking Bollocks.!! . . . . Measuring to those tolerences needs expensive highly calibrated equipment which I doubt he has either.!

For what you want to do then if those rails are on the same plane then you will be perfectly fine.!! . . . . Fact is this is DIY Level precision and to attain higher level precision cost's lots of Money or Lots of time and frustration.!!. . . . . .KEEP IT REAL. . . it will be PERFECTly fine for wood.!

njhussey
27-01-2014, 05:48 PM
Cheers Jazz ;)
.
.
My cunning plan is to get some of my 10mm 6082 plate I have and make a plate to go across the X axis and bolt it to the carriages like so....then put some 100x50 section on it to stiffen it....
.
11390
.
Then I can drill one hole one end of a rail and then using digital callipers (accurate enough???!!!) get the hole at the other end the same distance from the rail side, move the carriage to one end and drill a hole on the opposite rail at that end, slide the carriage up to the other end and mark the hole and drill that. Then by sliding the carriage up and down and nipping the bolts up I should be able to get them parallel to each other. I can then move the carriage near the middle and mark, drill and tap those holes. Once I've a sufficient number of holes drilled and tapped (every other hole?) I should be able to see if it slides freely or if it binds? If it slides freely......happy days, if not then epoxy it is! Sound like a (convoluted) plan?
P.S. I know the bolts should be allen head socket bolts and counter sunk but I couldn't be bothered to draw any.....sorry!

george uk
27-01-2014, 06:26 PM
although the amount of deflection mentioned by jonathan may seem small, it would be noticeable over a large machine base, or if your surfacing or engraving anything bigger than 500mm.

In his build, he shows you how to use epoxy to get it level, as close as you would need it.

I also fly RC planes. If you considering cutting wing profiles, you will notice even a small deflection. All depends on what your doing.

IMHO, for the sake of £ 45 for the expox, and a few hours ( no expencive tools needed ), do the resin thing, get it as accurate as possible.

Imagine doing a glider wing profile from foam, 1000mm long each, a small amount deflection on your rails would ruin the wing.

njhussey
27-01-2014, 07:37 PM
Understood George, however I think we're all knit picking here! I cheekily pointed out Jonathan's build as he has done what I was (maybe still am??!) thinking of doing and putting the rails directly on the steel. The sort of deflections I'm possibly looking at are in the magnitude if 0.5mm which is one stroke of sandpaper on a wing rib to put it in context. I've built some large and small planes by cutting out round paper templates so there would already be larger errors than what I think these rails will give.

I do think doing the epoxy levelling is worth it, after all why put in the hours on the design, the hours fabricating the frame only to not let it reach its full potential? However Jonathan's "Sufficiently strong" machine (a superb machine) was built with parts made (nested out of one large sheet of Ali) on a machine using supported round rail (I'm sure you've read on different build threads Jazz's comments on what he thinks the linearity of those rails is like!) on non levelled beams ;). Is that a chicken and egg situation??

Anyway, enough fun. I'll have a look at the rails tomorrow and poke about with some feeler gauges to explore...

Jonathan
27-01-2014, 07:47 PM
The critical point to bear in mind my old machine uses round rails on the X-axis, which tolerate a lot more misalignment than profile rails. The required tolerances go up a lot when you start using profile rails.


If you can get the rails to run smoothly without the epoxy, then that's probably fine for what you want to cut. The issue is it's hard to tell when a rail is misaligned by only a small amount, as this just applies a large quite large force to the bearings, but they can tolerate that temporarily. The problem is if you don't spot the slight change in smoothness caused by this, then your bearings could wear prematurely due to the increased load. Compare that to epoxy, where unless something goes seriously wrong it guarantees better accuracy and sufficient flatness. The £45 for epoxy is not much in the whole scheme of things when building a CNC router, so I'd strongly recommend it, although it's not mandatory if you can get the rails to run smoothly without.

Excellent point and your 100% spot on.!!. . . . He's talking Bollocks.!! . . . . Measuring to those tolerences needs expensive highly calibrated equipment which I doubt he has either.


I'm not sure if I should dignify that with a response, but I will for now. Are you referring to the angular resolution I quoted? If so then it really should be obvious to you how I measured that from the photos.


However Jonathan's "Sufficiently strong" machine (a superb machine) was built with parts made (nested out of one large sheet of Ali) on a machine using supported round rail [...] Is that a chicken and egg situation??

The mounting surfaces for the Y rails were milled using the bridgeport mill at school, since it wasn't reasonable to expect the required accuracy from my machine.

njhussey
27-01-2014, 09:54 PM
The critical point to bear in mind my old machine uses round rails on the X-axis, which tolerate a lot more misalignment than profile rails. The required tolerances go up a lot when you start using profile rails.

The point I was cheekily making was that we get hung up on fine tolerances when your machine is perfectly good for cutting aluminium!



If you can get the rails to run smoothly without the epoxy, then that's probably fine for what you want to cut. The issue is it's hard to tell when a rail is misaligned by only a small amount, as this just applies a large quite large force to the bearings, but they can tolerate that temporarily. The problem is if you don't spot the slight change in smoothness caused by this, then your bearings could wear prematurely due to the increased load. Compare that to epoxy, where unless something goes seriously wrong it guarantees better accuracy and sufficient flatness. The £45 for epoxy is not much in the whole scheme of things when building a CNC router, so I'd strongly recommend it, although it's not mandatory if you can get the rails to run smoothly without.

99.9% sure ill epoxy it but will prob drill and tap the holes first. As you say the £45 or so for the epoxy is insignificant compared to the total price of the machine, its a no brainier. I'll still bolt the rails straight down though...just because!! ;)



The mounting surfaces for the Y rails were milled using the bridgeport mill at school, since it wasn't reasonable to expect the required accuracy from my machine.

Again the rest of it was machined from nested parts on one sheet showing that with round rails on steel it's perfectly fine for cutting Ali!

Jonathan
27-01-2014, 10:02 PM
Again the rest of it was machined from nested parts on one sheet showing that with round rails on steel it's perfectly fine for cutting Ali!

Within reason the accuracy of your rail mounting wont affect what the machine can cut - it affects how accurately the material is cut and how long the machine lasts.

JAZZCNC
27-01-2014, 10:35 PM
I'm not sure if I should dignify that with a response, but I will for now. Are you referring to the angular resolution I quoted? If so then it really should be obvious to you how I measured that from the photos.

Wasn't referring to any specific area I was saying the whole measuring and graphs etc to the level your quoteing was bollocks because unless you measured and worked from a calibrated reference point with calibrated and accurate measuring devices you couldn't possibly know for sure.!

End of the day the quality of the pie is in the eating so bolt it together and see how it tastes.!! . . . . . Looking at the care taken so far I'd put a small wager on that if just left untouched no epoxy etc it will quite happily cut wood to a very high standard and do it all day long without any grumbles from those bearings.!!

Jonathan
27-01-2014, 10:38 PM
Wasn't referring to any specific area I was saying the whole measuring and graphs etc to the level your quoteing was bollocks because unless you measured and worked from a calibrated reference point with calibrated and accurate measuring devices you couldn't possibly know for sure.!

The measurements I was taking were relative, not absolute. That is sufficient for the purpose, if you accept that the flatness of my surface plate as an adequate reference point.

JAZZCNC
27-01-2014, 11:02 PM
The measurements I was taking were relative, not absolute. That is sufficient for the purpose, if you accept that the flatness of my surface plate as an adequate reference point.

Unless you could fit the whole machine on the surface plate so have base reference then no I don't.! . . . . . . But to be honest I don't give F@~£ all I know is that for cutting wood then with enough care and attention which has obviously been taken here it will be fine even without epoxy.

He's quite correct that If your machine and Mine for that matter can cut aluminium his will easily cut wood.!!. . . End of discussion.!!

routercnc
27-01-2014, 11:48 PM
Hi Neil,

I think in all that energetic exchange no-one picked up your enquiry in post #189. You were asking about getting the rails parallel to each other (in plan view). In building mk3 (WIP) I did something similar to you in fixing the 'primary rail' and using the gantry to help set the other rail before marking, tapping and bolting it down. In addition to that to make sure the first rail was straight I clamped a flat hard plate of steel against the outside of the extrusion (with a bit sticking up) to form a stop to push the side of the rail up to.

It turned out that the secondary rail fitted gently against the edge of the other extrusion so all that time spent cutting the crossmembers carefully etc. and building the squarest bed I could had paid off.

I also design and make RC planes - so balsa, liteply, and ply are the usual materials being cut. Will be watching your build with interest.

njhussey
28-01-2014, 10:42 AM
Hi Barry,
Yes that's the way I was thinking of, seemed to be the easiest option but will rely on getting the bearing carriage mounting points dead accurate as Jonathan says you have to get it accurate or it puts stress on the bearings and rails and will lead to premature wear. I'll look at getting a local machine shop to machine the carriage mounting points on the ali so there are reference shoulders to butt the carriages up to...

njhussey
29-01-2014, 02:31 PM
I've ordered the Reactive Resins slow curing epoxy (like the West System stuff hopefully but cheaper) and the viscosity doesn't seem too bad. Here's a quick video of me swishing it about in the bottles!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRajBSEwFWw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUX_ImztPc6hUkKDfklSSdBA

EddyCurrent
29-01-2014, 02:41 PM
How did you get it so quick ?

njhussey
29-01-2014, 02:45 PM
How did you get it so quick ?

Next day delivery as standard, can't fault their service...although I've not had a reply to my email yet.

njhussey
29-01-2014, 02:48 PM
This is how I'm going to have my fence for pouring the epoxy, I might put an extra cross channel near the front of the frame as an extra channel for self levelling.

1140511404

EddyCurrent
29-01-2014, 02:56 PM
Depending on how good it flows I was thinking about either a central aqueduct (epoxyduct ?) or two, one at each end. Obviously two are more wastefull than one. You don't fancy using the draught excluded idea then for the fences then ?

njhussey
29-01-2014, 03:08 PM
I'm going to test on a miniature set of welded steel first using some steel offcuts. I'll weld up a practice piece first like this...

11408

Just hope it doesn't use too much epoxy...

njhussey
29-01-2014, 03:15 PM
Additional epoxyduct added....

11409

Might try the draught excluder on the test piece....can see it being messy to get off after the epoxy sets?

njhussey
30-01-2014, 05:56 PM
Had a little play at lunch with the pillar drill and a bit of 60x60x5 RSA as I was thinking of making the dummy gantry base out of steel (plenty in the scrap bins at work cou"stock"gh) to cut up and mess with. I printed the hole pattern out on some paper and taped this to the bottom of the angle and centre punched the hole positions (high tech stuff this) prior to drilling them. Used a 6mm drill bit for a bit of clearance as the holes on the carriages are Tapped M5. Bolted the carriages to the angle and I reckon it should work OK and will save me spoiling a good bit of 10mm 6082 Ali plate.

I will get some draught excluder and try Eddie's moat method on the underside of the angle so as to get a level surface to mount the carriages on. I know for the sake of getting the rails parallel I don't need to do this but it means I can try the epoxy out to see how good it is and also try Eddie's foam moat idea at the same time :cool:

114281142711429

EddyCurrent
30-01-2014, 09:39 PM
I did a test pour today and it's looking good. The draught excluder worked fine but where two pieces butt up at corners it needs a bit of glue between as there was a slight leakage through the joint. I'll do a full report in my own thread after it has cured. Also I'm thinking that when the moat is removed the edges of the epoxy would look a lot better if a bead of liquid nails was run down, like you would with sealant, then run your finger along it to create a nice fillet that will set hard and can be painted over.
It looks like the epoxy did not penetrate into the foam, which was my biggest worry, and I think that's because the foam is waterproof.

njhussey
30-01-2014, 11:46 PM
That's excellent news! I look forward to seeing the results Eddy.

njhussey
31-01-2014, 01:36 PM
Splashed out on some transfer punches to transfer the hole patterns to the other piece of 60x60x5 angle. Will weld up the cross member next week...really want to spend more than 45 minutes on it at one time.

I'm selling off all my RC Helicopters so there's more room in the shed so I should be able to get out in it and do some work on the gantry soon I hope. Just have to man up and try cutting the ali plate and stop worrying about messing it up :cower:

11449

njhussey
04-02-2014, 01:49 PM
OK so the draught excluder is here now.

11506

Will have a play with the epoxy sometime soon. Will level the angle that I'll be using to space the x axis rails out with a little like the pictures below. This will let me play with the epoxy and get used to mixing and pouring it and also give me a nice level surface to mount the carriages to.

11503

The bridge between the two rails will be silicone sealant, all the foam will be stuck together and the MDF end boards will be no-nailed to the steel.

11504

I'm seriously thinking of welding two steel 100x50x4 sections in an L shape and getting the machine up and running that way. I'll use epoxy on the steel to level the Y axis rails so they're level.

11505

EddyCurrent
04-02-2014, 02:03 PM
I hadn't realised your gantry was very similar design to mine, did you read the Kingcreaky build log ?.
If you use the 7mm hole in the wide tub (e.g. ice cream carton) idea for pouring it's very civilised and controllable, you won't have any problems.

njhussey
04-02-2014, 02:24 PM
I hadn't realised your gantry was very similar design to mine, did you read the Kingcreaky build log ?.

Yes I remember reading Kingcreaky's build, I was just thinking that to get it going and to keep costs down I'd use what steel I have left (got to use it up somehow) and build the gantry out of that and level using epoxy as I'll have a bit left over from doing the x-axis rails. Then I'll either keep it as it is or...use the machine to cut parts for itself and build the proper gantry...

11507


If you use the 7mm hole in the wide tub (e.g. ice cream carton) idea for pouring it's very civilised and controllable, you won't have any problems.

Definitely going to use that method, seems like a winner!

JAZZCNC
04-02-2014, 06:50 PM
What Width is the machine to outsides of Steel.?

Clive S
04-02-2014, 08:27 PM
:beer:Very apt The Avatar. ..Clive

njhussey
05-02-2014, 12:19 AM
What Width is the machine to outsides of Steel.?

Its 850 to the outside of the x axis beams (100x50) I think, not got the laptop fired up so can't check.

JAZZCNC
05-02-2014, 01:19 AM
Its 850 to the outside of the x axis beams (100x50) I think, not got the laptop fired up so can't check.

Ok well sorry don't think I can help then.! . . . I've got one of these spare in pieces 11511 but I'm sure it's only 800mm wide thou I will Dig parts out tomorrow and check.!

njhussey
05-02-2014, 11:08 AM
Cheers for the offer Dean, I've just measured and it's 900mm wide to the outside of the end plates :frown:

I've just bought a load of (800) various size bzp metric socket cap head set screws, got a quote from the company that my firm uses and then did a Google and found these guys who seemed to be a good price...fasteners :: set screws socket allen key :: cap head metric bzp :: (http://www.tool-net.co.uk/s-1211/fasteners/set-screws-socket-allen-key/cap-head-metric-bzp/.html)

njhussey
10-02-2014, 03:02 PM
Cut up some of the 100x50x4 rectangular section steel to make a temporary gantry and just placed it on the x axis rails to check I cut it to the correct length!

Apologies for the blurred photo, took it on my phone...

11552

Close up of the steel...fresh off the bandsaw so still got swarf and cutting coolant.

11551

I'll hopefully weld up the two pieces tomorrow and drill the mounting holes for the 20mm carriages in the 200mm long bits. I'm thinking of bolting the L shaped gantry to the 200mm pieces and then once it's square I'll stitch weld them to keep them square. Going to epoxy the face of the gantry for the rails and also the bottom of the 200mm pieces so the carriages sit flush unless by some miracle the steel is perfectly flat...

Had a delivery of some cap head bolts last week, I know I'll need more and different sizes but this should get me going!

11553

EddyCurrent
10-02-2014, 03:15 PM
Any recommendations on 'best' place to get bolts ?

njhussey
10-02-2014, 03:21 PM
I was going to use our local supplier Hereford Fasteners but they were over twice the price of fasteners :: set screws socket allen key :: cap head metric bzp :: (http://www.tool-net.co.uk/s-1211/fasteners/set-screws-socket-allen-key/cap-head-metric-bzp/.html)

I was happy with the price so went with them. Delivery bumps it up a bit but I needed some F clamps and a few other bits so wasn't that bad!

EddyCurrent
10-02-2014, 03:26 PM
I must be blind today, you already provided that link a few posts earlier :stupid:, I have also found a local supplier that seems quite reasonable so will compare prices later.

IanS1
10-02-2014, 09:52 PM
Ok well sorry don't think I can help then.! . . . I've got one of these spare in pieces 11511 but I'm sure it's only 800mm wide thou I will Dig parts out tomorrow and check.!

Might be interested in the gantry Jazz if you're thinking of selling. What width did it actually turn out to be?

njhussey
11-02-2014, 04:26 PM
Well spent the 1/2 hr in lunch marking and drilling the holes for the X axis carriages in the 100x50 box section. Used the 6mm transfer punch and the 60x60 angle that I've already drilled as a template to mark the holes and then the pillar drill to drill them (obviously.)

I'll probably dummy mount the rails to get an idea of how it will fit together and then mark the L section gantry for drilling the holes and bolt them together for a play....a bit like this...

11568

11567

njhussey
12-02-2014, 02:59 PM
Today's small advancement....wish I could have a few hours uninterrupted in the workshop to crack on! Anyway I only managed to mark out (wrongly :hopelessness: ...what is it, measure twice, cut/drill once??!!) the holes for the bottom section of the gantry and drill them and put the carriage mount pieces on the carriages. Marked out one carriage mount but ran out of time to centre punch and drill.

11584
.
11585

routercnc
12-02-2014, 11:24 PM
Looking good Neil. You just have to keep chipping away at it.

In post #224 and #221 the Y ballscrew looks like it is some way off the Y axis, dropped down on some spacers. Would it instead fit under the Z stepper motor and attach directly to the trapezoidal shaped plate on the side of the Y axis (i.e. ballscrew on top of the gantry)?

njhussey
13-02-2014, 10:50 AM
Looking good Neil. You just have to keep chipping away at it.

Thank you, that's what I am doing, it's just frustrating!


In post #224 and #221 the Y ballscrew looks like it is some way off the Y axis, dropped down on some spacers. Would it instead fit under the Z stepper motor and attach directly to the trapezoidal shaped plate on the side of the Y axis (i.e. ballscrew on top of the gantry)?

Re-drawn the gantry as I realised that if sent vertical there was a nice shelf for the chips/dust to collect on. How about this way?

11595

This shows the Y axis ball nut holder attaching to the Z axis plate.

11594

EddyCurrent
13-02-2014, 11:22 AM
Neil,
You've turned the gantry round !, I thought the idea was to have the ball screw at the back out of harms way ? I know this reversed way puts the ball nut nearer to the Z axis but it's been stated that in practice it makes little or no difference to have it at the back.
I like the box section idea between the bearing blocks and gantry, it allows easy access for bolts and does not require counter boring.
Seeing as you have spacers between the frame and ball screw bearings on the long axis, why not extend them up so that the ball screw is more in the same horizontal plane as the rails ? I had them like your drawing at first but decided to raise them as far as possible. I'm thinking a limit switch could also be mounted on the extended spacer, above the ball screw bearing.

njhussey
13-02-2014, 11:52 AM
Don't forget my machine will be mounted at 75° from horizontal (eventually!) so before the gantry would have collected all the crap being thrown up by the cutter. This is only going to be a temporary gantry (famous last words!) as I'll use it to cut the aluminium parts for the "proper" gantry from the 800x1000x20 sheet of Ali I have lying around gathering dust, which will then be enclosed to protect the ball screw.

I've put the ball screws there to protect them from flying crap as much as possible from the cutter as they are hidden behind the rails where they are. They are only 45mm below the X axis carriages so I'm not sure that it would make any real noticeable difference in terms of performance?

njhussey
15-02-2014, 11:34 AM
Yesterday I set one rail parallel to the steel beam and bolted the steel to the carriage mounts to check that the gantry beam had the holes in the right place.

11613

I had to drill some new holes as in my rush on Thursday I drilled the pattern 90 degrees out (less haste more speed!) Managed to loosely bolt the gantry in place but ran out of time so had to unbolt it all again. Need to get a shift on as now only got the workshop facilities for another month...

EddyCurrent
15-02-2014, 12:21 PM
How do you plan to get the gantry at exactly right angles to the rails ?

njhussey
15-02-2014, 02:37 PM
How do you plan to get the gantry at exactly right angles to the rails ?

I am going to clamp a piece of Aluminium sheet to the gantry back and use a large engineers square off the reference rail (bolted down) to square it.

The reference rail will be parallel to one 100x50 x axis rail so I might get a DTI and reference the 100x50 rail carriage off the rail side and then bolt that down firmly (threadlock) to the carriages before referencing the gantry.

EddyCurrent
15-02-2014, 03:46 PM
I think I'm going to use a combination. What you said plus a digital angle finder plus a 3-4-5 triangulation measurement.
If they all arrive at the same point, great, if not, I'll do it again, have a rethink or maybe take an average reading.

Neale
15-02-2014, 03:57 PM
How about setting it up as accurately as possible by measurement, then cut two right-angles in a piece of panel material - one cut across the bed to give a straight edge, then one cut along X at mid point of gantry to divide it in two. Flip over one piece on to the other and the difference between the two "right angles" is twice the gantry alignment error. I was thinking this one through the other day as part of my "how would I set it up accurately?" musings but not sure how it would work. I was also wondering how and where I would build in the necessary adjustment for correction.

EddyCurrent
15-02-2014, 04:14 PM
Neale,
That's how I would set an engineers square up, by flipping it over as you say but in this case I'm on about bolting the gantry cross member to the two carriages each side sitting on the long rails with the adjustment being in the bolts fastening that cross member to the carriages. So it's bolting three pieces together and ending up with the cross member at right angles to the long rails.

njhussey
15-02-2014, 05:53 PM
I might just put the gantry piece on a flat table and bolt the carriage pieces at 90 degrees to that and then bolt to the carriages and see how the rail spacing is on the x axis box section. I'm not going to worry too much at the moment as I need to get the bulk of it built whilst I still have access to my works workshop and all the facilities there, only got 5 weeks left...

Wobblycogs
15-02-2014, 10:40 PM
I've given squaring up the y to the x axis a little thought as well. I've seen Jonathan mention using dowel pins and long calipers but I was thinking a good first pass would be to fit a pen in place of the router and get the machine to draw a large square or rectangle. Measured corner to corner the two measurements should be the same if the gantry is square. This is how I square pieces up when working wood, it's pretty easy to get a good level of accuracy and it costs nothing.

EddyCurrent
18-02-2014, 09:56 PM
. . . whilst I still have access to my works workshop and all the facilities there, only got 5 weeks left...

Neil, What's happening with the workshop ?

njhussey
18-02-2014, 09:59 PM
Works will still be there, however I shan't...

EddyCurrent
24-02-2014, 10:33 PM
How's progress ?

njhussey
24-02-2014, 11:44 PM
I've not had time to do anything more yet unfortunately. Handed my notice in today so got 4 weeks to get it finished ready to get it home to carry on with it in the shed. Will be trying to do some more in lunch tomorrow, got the adjustable feet plates to weld onto the frame then it will be doing the epoxy.

EddyCurrent
24-02-2014, 11:52 PM
Having some gear at home is essential, if it wasn't for a bandsaw that can cut wood and metal and a pneumatic overhead pin router that can cut wood and aluminium I would be knackered to do it myself.
Handing your notice in is both a wonderful and scary thing all at the same time, I've tried it several times myself.

Clive S
25-02-2014, 08:25 AM
Will be trying to do some more in lunch tomorrow, got the adjustable feet plates to weld onto the frame then it will be doing the epoxy. It might be better to do the epoxy when you are back at home and the frame is in its final position. Just a thought ..Clive

njhussey
25-02-2014, 10:28 AM
It might be better to do the epoxy when you are back at home and the frame is in its final position. Just a thought ..Clive

Hi Clive, there's no room in the shed at the moment (still boxes of stuff waiting to be unpacked from when I moved 10 months ago) so I can't really bring it back home and do the epoxy there. It needs a good clear out and shelves made to put things on but as my wedding is less than 4 weeks away now there's too much to do in the evenings and weekends with final preparations etc. Also the shed is too cold at the moment so doing the epoxy in a warm works is far more preferable I think. Eventually it will be mounted vertically but I still have to weld the supporting frame for that...

njhussey
05-03-2014, 02:55 PM
Well got out in the works for 1/2 hour just now...miracles do happen!!

Managed to drill some holes on some 40 x 40mm flat and weld on some M12 nuts to the back. These are for adjusting the frame flat whilst the epoxy is setting, they won't be used for feet as it's going to be vertically mounted......eventually.

Managed to weld in one of the feet and tidy up a bit with the angle grinder. Also put the top part of the gantry on and stitch welded it to the bottom half making the L shape. Camera died before I could get a picture of it though...

11769

njhussey
07-03-2014, 02:57 PM
All feet are prepped up and the second one is tacked in to the frame. I'm in the workshop for 3 hours tomorrow morning so hope to get lots done as there will be no: setting up...do 10 mins welding...then put it all away again...I hope!

EddyCurrent
07-03-2014, 11:54 PM
Don't do a 'rush and regret' job on it, which I sometimes succumb to myself :thumbdown:

njhussey
08-03-2014, 12:53 AM
Won't be rushing, not huge amounts to do. Want to get the epoxy on tomorrow...

njhussey
08-03-2014, 04:43 PM
This mornings progress...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/ejepy7a8.jpg
Ground all the welds flat that needed it. Tacked on a piece of 50x50 angle as the bridge between the rails.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/degebasa.jpg
Realised I'd left the stop plate unwelded on the top so put a run if weld down and ground it back. Now the epoxy won't leak there.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/nytabupa.jpg
Frame being forklifted round to the test bay, no point carrying it when there's the equipment to do it for you!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/a7y2y4uj.jpg
Frame tucked away and feet adjusted so it sits level.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/uzymasa3.jpg
Sat out the way in a corner...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/mygyvysu.jpg
What's missing from here? Yep my digital scales so no epoxy mixed and poured today :(

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/ryjamyza.jpg
All moats in place. Used masking tape to seal the gaps.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/zytuga2u.jpg
Put the gantry on the frame and shimmed it level and 90 degrees to the x axis mounts.

All ready for the pour which will be first thing Monday morning before work. Not a bad 3 hours work this morning really.

EddyCurrent
08-03-2014, 08:49 PM
Great job !, and a good wide epoxyduct between the rails, wasteful but necessary to get good flow and hence level all round. Pity about the scales, or lack of should I say.
Did the draught excluder go on okay ? give it a good pressing down all round just prior to pouring.