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Shinobiwan
03-02-2012, 05:18 AM
Hey guys,

I'm very new to cnc but have had a passing interest since reading about them some years ago. At that time they were horrendously expensive, extremely complicated and generally impractical for all but a commercial setting. Well fast forward about 15 years and thing have improved no end for a hobbyist such as myself and I finally caved in and decided there was a better way over the old manual methods I've been accustom to.

The problem was I had little to no information when I started looking at machines and so I didn't rush, instead I spent around 6 months just researching as much information as I could so as to be armed when it came time to pull the trigger so to speak. My budget was limited and that brought about even more complications as you always went the best for your money even when there's comparatively little of it. From this budget I set some realistic minimum specification that met my requirements. It had to be a 1250mm x 1250mm working area with a minimum of 200mm Z axis travel for the work I had in mind and to allow some growth and experimentation in the future. I was also mindful of that I'd be predominantly cutting MDF and this stuff is horrible for the lungs and makes a huge mess whenever its cut so a dust enclosure was a must as I didn't want the workshop covered in MDF 'snow'. Aside from that I was fairly flexible on the mechanical details as long as it was accurate and reliable. Speed wasn't a real concern and even if it was my budget wouldn't stretch to a fast machine that did all I wanted anyway, this was one of the main compromises.

So armed with a set of requirements, a budget and the knowledge I'd gathered I set about looking for a supplier in the UK. I knew that it would be tough but I really had no idea how tough! There are very few cnc manufacturers in the UK who supply machines in the UK that start at less than £10k for what I wanted. Marchant Dice was one and the other I found advertising on ebay - Strike CNC. Marchant machines looked good but the price quickly rose as I inquired about the extra's I wanted for requirements and I no longer thought it was a very good deal. That's not to bad mouth Marchant, they were very helpful during all my inquiries. I didn't bother ringing Strike CNC at all because the lack of website and only an ebay presence made me suspicious when spending that amount of money(I shouldn't have been but more on that later). And that was pretty much it for UK suppliers I could afford. I did consider shipping overseas from places like K2CNC, ShopSabre, CNC-Step but the taxes and/or shipping costs quickly spiralled.
Next up was searching ebay for a used bargain but again I found little to no machines within my budget that supported 200mm Z travel for the larger 3D work I had planned. Sure you could drop £20k and get something that had 200-300mm z travel but that was double my budget. At this point I was fed up of ringing places and staring at websites for hours. It was starting to look hopeless and maybe my expectations were unrealistic.

I gave up the search for about a month to re-assess and when I began again I came across Strike CNC on ebay once again. I figured I had nothing to loose so sent them a message asking for them to contact me. Within about 30minutes I got a phone call from a really nice chap down there called Michael and over the course of a couple of hour conversation I'd convinced myself they were the real deal and the next day we hashed out the details for my machine and I placed an order. Thanks god for that! I was doubtful I'd ever get the machine I wanted for the budget I'd set but glad that Strike proved me wrong.

That was back in mid December 2011. But because their machines are made to order there is a lead time which increased by me adding a lot of extra's in there too. I'm expecting delivery next week on the 8th Feb.

For now I have attached a couple of work in progress shots as the machine neared completion that Michael kindly sent whilst I was biting my nails in anticipation of the exciting arrival of the machine but once the machine arrives I hope to post some pictures on here and hopefully give them a little exposure from a very happy customer(so far!). These guys have been nothing but helpful and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, they're machines are well made too and the fact that you can tweak virtually any part of the order is a big bonus if your looking for something a little more tailored. The prices are better than anything I managed to find outside of DIY'ing my own machine too.

For those interest the specs of the machine are as follows:


CNC router Stand mounted with full enclosure. Clear front & side for full viewing , clear double front doors & grey paneled double back doors , lexan polycarb windows used on the enclosure.


1250mm X travel, 1250mm Y Travel, 200mm Z travel
Y axis with dual ballscrews and 4nm motors
X axis with 4 nm motor

Y axis with dual ballscrews and 4nm motors
Z axis 3 nm motor
4 axis integrated control box with interface spindle control
Dual power supplies
16x10mm anti backlash ball screws

Dual 25x10mm ball screws

240v single phase operation
Precision Hiwin linear rail on the Y axis
Precision Shaft linear rail on the X axis
Kress spindle mount 43mm & Kress milling spindle FME 1050F

CNC hand controller

Shinobiwan
12-02-2012, 10:35 PM
Machine was delayed for a week. Now due this Wednesday. Have attached a couple more images that I got from Strike to show the finished machine.

routercnc
13-02-2012, 09:52 PM
Hi Shinobiwan,

Looks like a nice machine and I'm sure you'll have lots of fun with it! Since you're new to cnc just a few things to note:

The Z axis uses unsupported rail which is less stiff than supported rail (as per Y axis) or profile (as per X axis). Since you are machining wood and the span of unsupport rail is a modest size it will probably be good enough. But for interest did you ask how much supported Z rail would be?

The Kress has a good reputation, although like all routers is on the noisy side. The enclosure should help a bit but long machining jobs can get tiring for you and any neighbours. There are lots of threads on here showing the virtues of upgrading to spindles (either air or water cooled) so may be something to consider in the future. It would be a relatively easy upgrade in the future so nothing lost.

Any details on the control box (driver makes, stepper voltage etc)? If it contains commercial bought in units there are likely to be other users on here who can share their experiences and set ups.

Good luck with it all and welcome to CNC'ing.

JAZZCNC
13-02-2012, 10:50 PM
Oh Argh Oh ah self control as never been my strong point but the medication must be working because I'm resisting.!!!!! . .:whistling:

When the urge gets too much I just think back to all those 100000's of lines the teacher gave me.??

Casper . . Write 1000's times. . . " I Must learn to keep my mouth shut". . :joker:

Shinobiwan
14-02-2012, 10:28 AM
Oh Argh Oh ah self control as never been my strong point but the medication must be working because I'm resisting.!!!!! . .:whistling:

When the urge gets too much I just think back to all those 100000's of lines the teacher gave me.??

Casper . . Write 1000's times. . . " I Must learn to keep my mouth shut". . :joker:

Oh dear is it *that* bad?

I knew there were compromises made for that price but I figured for wood it'd be fine.

I'm a big boy and its a router not my first born so please don't feel any need to censor yourself.

John S
14-02-2012, 10:41 AM
Unsupported rails on the Z are not as bad as other axis as gravity is helping.
True you have sideways cutting forces but the weight of the head doesn't cause deflection like the weight on X and Y.

Add to this they are usually short and stiff, I personally can't see a problem.

Gary
14-02-2012, 07:28 PM
I agree, round rail for a short Z is not normally a problem especially if you are using it for soft materials?
Looks like a Marchant Dice machine?

motoxy
14-02-2012, 07:51 PM
When the urge gets too much I just think back to all those 100000's of lines the teacher gave me.??

Casper . . Write 1000's times. . . " I Must learn to keep my mouth shut". . :joker:

That was a waste of time then:whistling:

JAZZCNC
14-02-2012, 08:56 PM
Oh dear is it *that* bad?

I knew there were compromises made for that price but I figured for wood it'd be fine.

I'm a big boy and its a router not my first born so please don't feel any need to censor yourself.

Ok first I appologize, I made it sound worse than was intended.! I've got a canny knack of pointing out or saying truths "some" Dont want to hear.!! (Mainly the ones selling the machine) But seen as your ok with it then I'll point out the things I think are not Ideal.
First So to be clear for others " THIS IS JUST MY OPINION BASED ON MY KNOWLEDGE" Others will have theres' but this is mine and I've been invited to give it.!!. . .So get stuffed if you dont like it.!!:dance:

Z Axis:. . .Yes I agree with John S, Gary unsupported round rail is ok for short Z Axis. . . But this hisn't short, It's quite long.!
The over hang from bearings to tool tip looks to be a far bit creating a long-ish lever, also the front and rear plate don't look very thick. The other thing is the rear plate length and the amount of unsupported over hang from Y axis bearings, again too much without support IMO. Yes this will be ok for the little Kress but if you want to upgrade to water cooled or larger spindle then I think it will show it's weakness. . . It will certainly restrict the depth of cut(DOC) and feed rates (Fr), even in wood.

Tho it's not easy to see from the pics I get the feeling the Y Axis top gantry cross brace is just a piece of Aluminium plate with the rails bolted onto to it for support.? Say this because cant see any slots that would be present if it was wide profile.!! . . . If so then with that heigh/width gantry combo at this width of machine then it needs bracing up more IMO.
Don't like the ratio between gantry height and gantry side width, the bearing spacing hisn't very much. Yes it's driven from both sides but the height and width don't gel nice and if like I belive the gantry cross piece is just Ali plate with no bracing and just relying on the rails for support then flex will show when cutting hard or deep.!!. . Again restricting DOC & FR.

The frame under the bed hisn't supported enough with just one central support for this wide a machine IMO.

Not a major issue but not keen on them little nema23 motors spinning 25mm ballscrews, they are going to be working over time with the extra inertia of 25mm ballscrews.!

Please don't get me wrong I'm not saying the machine is rubbish because it's not, but again "IMO" It does have potential for issue's in some area's.!! And even thou you are only planning on cutting wood, there's cutting wood and then theres cutting wood with correct DOC & FR's and this is when any weak area's show them selfs.!!!

On another note I also think the bullk of the cost of this machine would have been the Cabinet enclosure.??

Like Routercnc I would be interested to know the spec of the drives control box etc.! . . . Also the price if your up for sharing.??

Hope you have good fun when it arrives and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.. :toot:

Shinobiwan
14-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Ok first I appologize, I made it sound worse than was intended.! I've got a canny knack of pointing out or saying truths "some" Dont want to hear.!! (Mainly the ones selling the machine) But seen as your ok with it then I'll point out the things I think are not Ideal.

No problem, I wish I'd known about this place back when I first started looking around. Nothing wrong with a frank opinion, I'd rather have that than the marketing speak!

From my limited knowledge I can see your concerns about some of the decisions taken with the construction but whether this negatively affects the parts I intend to produce will only be realised once I start cutting. I think your right that I'll have to dial back the speeds significantly. I've been told rapids of 5000mm/m are to be expected but cutting will reduce this greatly and I imagine 1500 upto possibly 2000mm/m with a 1/4" DOC in MDF will be about the limit. I'm more concerned about acceleration because I'll be doing a lot of detail work where this is more important than traverse speeds. Wondering how much things will jerk around with higher settings, probably quite a lot by the sounds of it sadly.


Tho it's not easy to see from the pics I get the feeling the Y Axis top gantry cross brace is just a piece of Aluminium plate with the rails bolted onto to it for support.? Say this because cant see any slots that would be present if it was wide profile.!! . . . If so then with that heigh/width gantry combo at this width of machine then it needs bracing up more IMO.
Don't like the ratio between gantry height and gantry side width, the bearing spacing hisn't very much. Yes it's driven from both sides but the height and width don't gel nice and if like I belive the gantry cross piece is just Ali plate with no bracing and just relying on the rails for support then flex will show when cutting hard or deep.!!. . Again restricting DOC & FR.

It does look like alu plate that forms the gantry but its alu extrusion. I'm not sure about the exact dimensions but it looked like about 160mm x 30mm or possibly 160x20mm.


The frame under the bed hisn't supported enough with just one central support for this wide a machine IMO.

This was a concern of mine in recent days since I started looking at some of the DIY builds on here - much more substantial beds. I can't see an easy way of bracing it more thoroughly though, especially in the direction parallel to the gantry, because the ball screws are in the way make a decent and useful cross section of bracing impossible to fit in there.


Not a major issue but not keen on them little nema23 motors spinning 25mm ballscrews, they are going to be working over time with the extra inertia of 25mm ballscrews.!

I was led to believe these are nema28 on the x and y with 4Nm rating. However when I do a good search for nema28 I get nothing. Only nema23 and 34 return useful results. Unsure now.


On another note I also think the bullk of the cost of this machine would have been the Cabinet enclosure.??

The enclosure was £600 extra so nearly an 1/8th of the price.


Like Routercnc I would be interested to know the spec of the drives control box etc.! . . . Also the price if your up for sharing.??

I feel some what stupid because I have no idea about the electronics aside from the specs I was given(these are in the original post). The machine was the first of its kind with the enclosure so I agreed to have them take some pictures for marketing purposes and got it cheaper. They're selling the same machine with hiwin rails all around (mine is only on the Y) and possibly some more upgrades including the electronics for £6999.

Hope you have good fun when it arrives and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.. :toot:

I'm sure I will and thanks.

Shinobiwan
14-02-2012, 10:20 PM
I agree, round rail for a short Z is not normally a problem especially if you are using it for soft materials?
Looks like a Marchant Dice machine?

Hi Gary the machine is from Strike CNC.

Gary
15-02-2012, 07:35 AM
The motors are nema 24 and to get anything useful from them you will need to have quite a high voltage power supply.
Also the comment that they are two small for 25mm diameter ballscrews is totally right especially if you want to get them spinning fast.
The 4Nm is just the holding torque and totally irrelevant, and without a high voltage these motors will perform really bad.

Jonathan
15-02-2012, 01:10 PM
I was going to post something similar to what Jazz has just posted about this machine, but there's no point now as he's said it all really.

Hopefully the 4nm motors are these:

http://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=70

So strictly speaking Nema 24. They're quite promising as they have a low inductance for their size, though I've never tried them. It's such a mismatched system. Instead of going for a higher lead ballscrew for X (i.e. RM1610 like they used on Y, or RM2010) to prevent whipping they've used a 25mm ballscrew then stuck bigger motors on to try and compensate, but it will still be nowhere near the performance (especially acceleration) you could get with 3Nm motors and a smaller diameter screw. 5m/min is adequate as the machine probably isn't rigid enough to cut faster than that.

£600 sounds a lot to add for an enclosure, though the price is understandable given the use of aluminium extrusion. Why not just make it out of wood, e.g pine or if they have a big enough machine cut the enclosure out of plywood sheet? Should be much cheaper.

You could add more braces to the bed parallel to the X-axis without interfering with the ball-screws. Without that you may see the bed bend away from the tool when it plunges down. Plunging with the tool something to avoid anyway (unless it's a drill!) but not always possible.

John S
15-02-2012, 02:39 PM
What's with the Nema 24's My understanding is that the size is determined by the across the frame distance so 2.3" and as they all have to fit the same bolt hole pattern they should all be the same. I have bought these larger powered 4nm's from Zapp, Roy at DIY - CNC and also from the link above and China direct. They are all interchangeable so all must be 23's unless i'm missing something here ?

Also £600 for the enclosure doesn't sound high to me. These guys are working for a living, not pissing about in a garden shed and that stuff isn't cheap. I built two enclosures for the KX series machines to go in at the shows for ARC. I'll bet he wished I'd only charged him £600 quid a pop :tongue:
5358

luke11cnc
15-02-2012, 03:02 PM
To tell you the truth I think they made a mistake on the enclosure as I know that the extrusion was over £400.00 for my frame work alone


James

Jonathan
15-02-2012, 03:07 PM
I have bought these larger powered 4nm's from Zapp, Roy at DIY - CNC and also from the link above and China direct. They are all interchangeable so all must be 23's unless i'm missing something here ?

I can't see the 4nm motors at Zapp, only the standard 3nm that everyone sells.


Also £600 for the enclosure doesn't sound high to me. These guys are working for a living, not pissing about in a garden shed and that stuff isn't cheap. I built two enclosures for the KX series machines to go in at the shows for ARC. I'll bet he wished I'd only charged him £600 quid a pop :tongue:

What I meant is I'd never recommend paying that much for an enclosure when it's something anyone can make. You don't really need to know anything about CNC to make an enclosure, as it's just a box. Plus if you're going to charge £600 for an enclosure why make it from extrusion when you get a bigger profit with other materials :lol:

Gary
15-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Nema 23 motors are 56mm square.
the 60mm motors are an oddball so they called them nema 24.
We only sell the 3nm version of the 60mm motor, i tested the higher torque version and found that they performed worse than the 3nm version.
As john rightly says, you cant expect a company to make a bespoke enclosure for near nothing, £600 is not bad, we all need to make a living.

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 03:33 PM
I suspect these are nema24 and I incorrectly called them nema28. Everything else seems to fit.

What does concern me is the points raised by some about the inertia and general mass of the screws being too much for the stepper motors. Obviously its hard to tell without testing and you can be sure I'll post some video's of the machine working to allow you to look for any issues that I might not be able to identify being a beginner.

Supposing I do find that the motors are inadequate, how big of a job would it be to upgrade them to something suitable?

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 04:02 PM
As john rightly says, you cant expect a company to make a bespoke enclosure for near nothing, £600 is not bad, we all need to make a living.

Where there's clear panels, they've used Lexan too rather than just clear perspex. I've had a quick look at prices for a 4 x 8ft sheet and its not cheap. The machine is 1.8m D x 1.8m W so your looking at a couple of sheets of that if you arrange your cuts sensibly. Overall I was happy at £600.

I know what you guys are saying though. I DIY too (not CNC machine though) and don't consider my time spent as a commodity so £600 for a cover would seem expensive compared to something I could knock up. In this case though I wanted a neat package that ran straight out of the box.

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Have any of you guys tried building this vacuum hold down kit:

http://www.m-powertools.com/products/big-mach/big-mach.htm

The price seems good compared to the alternatives and because it works off a regular hoover you don't need venturi or vacuum pump.

Jonathan
15-02-2012, 08:10 PM
i tested the higher torque version and found that they performed worse than the 3nm version.

Interesting, that's precisely the information I was after here:

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/3298-Has-anyone-used-these-steppers-or-drivers

Please could you elaborate on what tests you performed?

John S
15-02-2012, 08:22 PM
I can't see the 4nm motors at Zapp, only the standard 3nm that everyone sells.





Sorry, brain fart meant the 3nm ones but both Gary's and Roys are in the fatter frame. So although they are fatter at 60mm and called type 24? the bolt fixings are still the same as type 23.

Gary
15-02-2012, 08:49 PM
I ran the SY60STH88 and the SY60STH100 on the same drivers at the same voltage and the larger motor could only get to about 60% of the speed as the 88mm long motor.
I ran them on the Leadshine M542 at 40V and the Leadshine M880 at 70V.
While the longer motor would give more torque at the lower speeds, this soon changed after hitting a few hundred RPM.
Also the specification in the link you posted looks all wrong.
Look at the inductance and the current and compare it to the 88mm long motor.
The Inductance is lower than the 88mm long motor but also the current is lower.
You would expect the inductance to be higher if the current is lower.
I suspect the inductance is actually a lot higher than is shown in the datasheet, and if this is true you need a much higher voltage driver to get a good performance from the motor.
even at 70V, the 88mm long motor performed better.


There is only so much power you can get from a motor with such a small frame, and if you want more power you have no choice but to go to a larger frame motor like a nema 34, but at the same time also use much higher voltage.


Interesting, that's precisely the information I was after here:

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/3298-Has-anyone-used-these-steppers-or-drivers

Please could you elaborate on what tests you performed?

Gary
15-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Oh and to simulate torque i coupled the motor to a larger nema 34 motor and shorted the windings.
This works but its bloody noisy.

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 09:05 PM
I've looked back through some old emails and can confirm the PSU is 60v. No other details on the make or model of the drivers though.

Jonathan
15-02-2012, 09:06 PM
Fair enough, I should have compared the power consumption. The ratings imply the power consumption is nearly equal which is inconsistent. I'll continue to steer clear of those motors...

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 09:15 PM
Weird, I thought I'd posted this earlier but must have miss-clicked.

Should problems arise. Can you tell me if its possible to swap the nema24 to a more suitable motor? And if so what would you recommend.

JAZZCNC
15-02-2012, 09:37 PM
It does look like alu plate that forms the gantry but its alu extrusion. I'm not sure about the exact dimensions but it looked like about 160mm x 30mm or possibly 160x20mm.

Ah ok slightly better than feared thou at this width extra bracing would be my prefered choice.




This was a concern of mine in recent days since I started looking at some of the DIY builds on here - much more substantial beds. I can't see an easy way of bracing it more thoroughly though, especially in the direction parallel to the gantry, because the ball screws are in the way make a decent and useful cross section of bracing impossible to fit in there.

I would run 2 piece's parallel with the screws close as possible, positioned vertical like the side rails. I would also change the centre one to the same position then take staggered cross supports between each. If your not sure what I mean just ask and I'll draw it for you.



The enclosure was £600 extra so nearly an 1/8th of the price.

They're selling the same machine with hiwin rails all around (mine is only on the Y) and possibly some more upgrades including the electronics for £6999.

£600 is very cheap for the enclosure like as been said but to be honest for 7K I'd want far more for my money than this machine offers. I'm self employed so know exactly how hard times are at the moment but to be honest at 7K there making VERY good profit.!!

Shinobiwan
15-02-2012, 10:25 PM
I would run 2 piece's parallel with the screws close as possible, positioned vertical like the side rails. I would also change the centre one to the same position then take staggered cross supports between each. If your not sure what I mean just ask and I'll draw it for you.

A good suggestion and this is something I will very likely do.

Strike CNC
15-02-2012, 11:12 PM
£600 is very cheap for the enclosure like as been said but to be honest for 7K I'd want far more for my money than this machine offers. I'm self employed so know exactly how hard times are at the moment but to be honest at 7K there making VERY good profit.!!Hi All Just wanted to say hi & introduce ourselves we are a CNC router Engraver & laser manufacturer based in the south west of the UK just outside Gloucester our premises are on the vantage point business park our address can be found on google maps.I thought i would post & answer a few questions some have had We have x8 CNC routers in our range from our standard models to our PRO range boasting full hiwin rails on all axis we also offer a range of upgrades for the standard models as well as a bespoke service for custom models , this particular CNC router was originally a 1200x1200 for this client he then chose to up grade to the enclosure as well as the hiwin profile rails on the 1 axis, we did recommend the hiwin rails on all axis & pointed out they are far superior on all axis as opposed to the standard supported bearings in a ideal world we would only recommend hiwin rails on all axis but this is ultimately the customers decision weather to go for the upgrade or not & we have to supply the customer with what they want that said as long as the Z axis rails are not long unsupported shaft for the Z axis is acceptable many of our competitors use unsupported rails on the X & Y which to us is not acceptable.The dual axis is run from 6A drives with a high powered PSU we use dual power supplies on our CNC routers ,by using the 6A drives on the dual axis this allows us to use higher powered PSUs that cannot be used with the standard.4.2A drives The motors are nema 23 4NM on the X & Y axis & we found these (once powered with a high voltage power supply) provide more than enough torque to move the gantry at 5mpm , we have tested many motors & drivers over the years from not only the UK suppliers but also a few of the US suppliers & found our current system the most efficient , by moving to a nema 34 motors you start to have problems with slow acceleration & deceleration due to the high inductance & high inertia not to mention the vibration due to refinance in the 34s this coupled with the even higher voltage requirement deemed them not strictly necessary, we found that our current 4NM motors (& there are a few different manufacturers of these) are some of the highest powered we have come across & we have tested a lot of motors & drives across multiple platforms before coming across our current system but of course we can add nema 34s if that's what our customer prefer. This particular machines gantry is our standard range & has heavy gauge 30x180 gantry back support, the upright gantry is heavy gauge 40 series we only use heavy gauge extrusion on all our products including all bases & mini models this gives a more rigid & robust design, the Z axis back plate as well as the front Z plate bearing our logo is solid plate.i do hear your criticism about the supports but once you see the machines in person you get to see just how rigid they are we have been told pictures do not give our machines any justice Also the cost of the enclosure was 600.00 this is VERY cheap as we use lexan polycarb (some of the highest quality in the business) this plastic will not break infact you can tie it in a knot bend it even stamp on it & it will not break the cost also includes the larger base for the CNC as the standard machine base was 1400x1400 with the enclosure the base had to be 1850x1750 so included all the materials to make the larger base so this was a very cheap upgrade for enclosure, yes you can make one cheaper out of wood if you go down the DIY route but we are a business & a wooden enclosure may not fit in with the overall look of the machine. This client payed £4460.00 for this model & we thought it was a very good price We do also sell a pro version of the model for 7K but this contains full hiwin 20 rails ,T Nut bed & a gecko control system also for 7K we have a 4 axis 8x4" CNC router with full Hiwin upgrade 8" 4th axis with tailstock the base has 80x80 legs & 80 series base , we use larger components on this model so it does weigh quit a fair bit which is testament to its rigidity it is a solid beast of a machine we are currently manufacturing x2 of the larger 4 axis 8x4 CNC routers for another client & will post pictures if any one is interested in seeing them over the next few weeks Any constructive criticism is welcomeAll the best Strike CNC

Strike CNC
16-02-2012, 10:11 AM
Hi all
there must be some typos wrong the motors are nema 23 4NM
this machine has dual 20mm ball screws the motors are more than powerful to power these personally i would not move up the the 34s as there are inherent resonance issues & problems with acceleration & deceleration as well as the other problems stated in previous post that's not putting the 34s down they are good motors but not needed on this machine our competitors use only 3nm & lower in some cases our are 4NM motors powered & high voltage
RE the bed once the bed is ready for skimming the bed is 34mm thick there will be no discernible flex issues.

John S
16-02-2012, 10:39 AM
Your observations over using high powered 23's against 34 are exactly what I have come across.
I recently refitted a home conversion done by a third party, they had fitted 1800 oz 34's on a small mill with the understanding that bigger is better.
Once changed to 750 oz in and power upgraded to 72 volts the rapids doubled.

As I said in a previous post that enclosure was a bargain but then again that's the difference between running a business and pissing about in a shed !

Shinobiwan
16-02-2012, 11:41 AM
this particular CNC router was originally a 1200x1200 for this client he then chose to up grade to the enclosure as well as the hiwin profile rails on the 1 axis, we did recommend the hiwin rails on all axis & pointed out they are far superior on all axis as opposed to the standard supported bearings in a ideal world we would only recommend hiwin rails on all axis but this is ultimately the customers decision weather to go for the upgrade or not & we have to supply the customer with what they want.

I would also like to add that you did upgrade the base axis to hiwin rails at cost(£240) simply because I couldn't afford it otherwise and you wanted these rails in place as the machine size pretty much needed them. A real shame I couldn't stretch my budget a little further to get the other 2 axis done as well. Hat's off to you for doing this. I've since looked at the prices of hiwin rails and bearings blocks and they're not cheap.


that said as long as the Z axis rails are not long unsupported shaft for the Z axis is acceptable many of our competitors use unsupported rails on the X & Y which to us is not acceptable.

I think it'll be fine. I have a Bosch GCM10SD Mitre Saw that slides on about 35cm of unsupported rails. Its extremely accurate and the only thing that moves during a cut is blade deflection. With the cnc, as long as I keep to sensible speeds and materials that the machine was designed for I can't see any problems.


This particular machines gantry is our standard range & has heavy gauge 30x180 gantry back support, the upright gantry is heavy gauge 40 series we only use heavy gauge extrusion on all our products including all bases & mini models this gives a more rigid & robust design, the Z axis back plate as well as the front Z plate bearing our logo is solid plate.i do hear your criticism about the supports but once you see the machines in person you get to see just how rigid they are we have been told pictures do not give our machines any justice

Would have been great if I could have moved up to something like a couple of 80x80mm beams for the gantry and 40x200 for the uprights but as always my budget was the limiting factor. Its good to know you used the heavy gauge of extrusion rather than the light or even the eco version that have progressively more and more voids in the cross section.

Again I've got a great base and enclosure so DIY'ing a machine in the future and just bolting it down on the base is a possibility. Something like the Fine Line Automation FLA300 kit or cncrouterparts CRP4848 for example. This isn't something I'd do for at least a year or two however but the option is there if I ever felt the need for higher feedrates or harder materials.


Also the cost of the enclosure was 600.00 this is VERY cheap as we use lexan polycarb (some of the highest quality in the business) this plastic will not break infact you can tie it in a knot bend it even stamp on it & it will not break the cost also includes the larger base for the CNC as the standard machine base was 1400x1400 with the enclosure the base had to be 1850x1750 so included all the materials to make the larger base so this was a very cheap upgrade for enclosure, yes you can make one cheaper out of wood if you go down the DIY route but we are a business & a wooden enclosure may not fit in with the overall look of the machine. This client payed £4460.00 for this model & we thought it was a very good price

I can't argue with the price. You gave a few bits for free or at cost. And I'm pretty sure you lost money on the enclosure if you factor the labour. Price is always subjective but its what your happy to pay that matters and at £4.5k I'm happy. I looked around at the alternatives and the only way you can beat that is by DIY'ing and that's assuming your competent enough to pull it off to the same standard (I'm not!) and you also don't mind spending a good number of hours building (I don't have the time either).

Anyway the machine will arrive within the next few hours and I'll post some photo's.

Shinobiwan
16-02-2012, 11:48 AM
I thought you guys might be interested to see what the machine will be cutting so have attached a couple of renders to show.

Shinobiwan
17-02-2012, 12:37 AM
Its arrived!

I can tell you it wasn't fun getting it off the lorry and into position. I had a couple of mates around to give a hand and the 3 of us thought we'd try to lift the whole thing. Wrong! It weighs around half a ton and quickly abandoned that idea. In the end we had to break it down into 3 sections for us to be able to comfortably man handle it off the lorry and into position. We tackled it by removing the router from the base and discovered this was by far where the bulk of the weight was. Once that lump was gone the base was pretty light although a bit awkward to manoeuvre because of the size. Before attaching the router back on to the base we spent a lot of time levelling in all directions as the floor does slope a little. Once that was done we bolted the router back on. Last part was the top enclosure and carrying this around wasn't too bad but getting it back on the machine was a right pain in the backside. The low ceiling in the workshop and tall gantry made it impossible and after some head scratching and a fair bit of swearing we dismantled it and then re-assembled on the machine. Ugh, never want to do that again.

By the time we'd done it was 9pm and way too late to start taking it for a test drive. Its going to be the weekend now before I have time and its going to kill me to wait. At least its setup ready to go now anyway.

First impressions are positive. The build is sturdy and the photo's don't do it justice at all. I've tried to shake the gantry and there's no play or flex whatsoever. Very well put together and polished package.

Here's some images.

John S
17-02-2012, 12:50 AM
Looks very impressive.

Shinobiwan
17-02-2012, 01:00 AM
Thanks John.

GTJim
17-02-2012, 01:08 PM
That machine looks really good and the speakers look even better.
Jim

luke11cnc
17-02-2012, 01:25 PM
yes speakers look great what do you use for the external material is it sprayed ??

James

Shinobiwan
17-02-2012, 02:19 PM
yes speakers look great what do you use for the external material is it sprayed ??

James

Thanks James. As you suspected they're sprayed.

Those are renders but here's the real thing to give a better idea.

artmin
17-02-2012, 05:47 PM
Those speakers look fantastic! If they sound as good as they look I think you've got a winner:dance:

The CNC looks great too. Compared to what I payed for my 1000x600mm Heiz, I personally think you got a bargain. And only after reading this, I now know what everyone is on about concerning supported rails. the Heiz X-axis is running round 22mm guides over a metre and you can see them flex upwards when plunging. Mind you, i've had it for 4 years now & I know what it is capable of. I think I payed about £4k for it without any enclosure :eek:, but then again it paid for itself doing it's first job.

I hope you have fun with it & I'd be interested how you fare with the Kress cutting wood. The first job I did in oak ate the brushes out of the Kress in no time using a 6mm slotter.

Gavin

Strike CNC
18-02-2012, 12:26 AM
HI
I'm glad you got the machine in & your right it does weigh around half a tonne & nearly all of the weight is in the CNC router itself this gives the forum users some idea of just how rigid our CNC routers are even our standard range of wood CNC routers are all this rigid with a similar size to weight ratio relative to size , on the other hand our metal cutting CNCs are even heaver , for instance we are manufacturing a small CNC router for a customer at the present his design brief was for machining 20-40mm aluminium plate it has a 860x660 cutting bed & this weighs nearly 400KG without any base the spindle alone is 12KG.
We do want forum users to realise the enclosed CNC router in this thread was manufactured for this client with a particular job in mind the design brief was for routing thin MDF (not 25mm ) for his amazing high end speakers (& they really do look quite spectaculare) please bear in mind this was a bespoke CNC this machine was never designed for use on cutting aluminium or a heavy DOC only for the job in hand so
flexing will not be a problem.
When a customer enquires about a CNC for a particular job we always make recommendations to the customer to be sure they have the right machine for the job its needed for & within there budget we do go the extra mile to satisfy our customers needs as Shinobiwan (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/member.php/7708-Shinobiwan) will agree.
We always pass on the savings direct to the customer to keep the manufacturing costs down for the client's budget, if one of our standard models are not suitable we can tailor make a package suitable for the clients needs but still keeping our prices very competitive just because it is a bespoke package we do not inflate the price as other industries do ,we also use good quality components this means our profit margins are smaller but the machines are of much higher quality for instance we could of used cheaper perspex for the enclosure but we used 4mm lexan polycarb as it is higher quality & also a lot safer as it will not shatter we adopt this though process within all our design elements
best wishes

Strike CNC
18-02-2012, 01:26 AM
[QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27824]Ah ok slightly better than feared thou at this width extra bracing would be my prefered choice.

Hi the gantry back support on this model is 30x180mm heavy gauge we have several gantry options available for the customer to choose from
30x180mm
30x200mm
30x300mm
40x200mm
40x300mm
60x320mm

we also have a range of gantry uprights available
40x120mm
40x160mm
40x320mm
60x320mm
80x320mm

Our machines do weigh a great deal even our standard models are very heavy which is why they are so rigid no additional bracing is needed on this model they really are solid, but i do understand your concern as you just cannot see from the pictures but once you see them in the flesh "so to speak" its only then you get some idea of how rigid they are customers are always surprised by the weight of the machines.
As the customer you can virtually design your own custom CNC we us by choosing from our range of components to get a truly customised CNC router to your own spec. We have supplied a customised M series of the PRO 660x660 CNC to 2 engineering firms to replace there small CNC mills once they seen what our metal range of CNC routers can produce & for a fraction of the price of a CNC mill there sold ,our 3 phase 5HP & 7HP water cooled spindles chew through aluminium like butter & you can high speed machine with them too cutting production runs down significantly ,one client has been running his older one for the past 26 months machining aluminium all day 6 days a week & its still going strong the customer has since purchased another unit this time with full enclosure i do have permission from the company to use pictures of the components they machine with the CNC if anyone's interested seeing them we are currently archiving a selection of customers work to be placed on our new website the only draw back with the M series of machines is they are incredibly heavy even the small models are obscenely heavy to give you a idea 4 people cannot even pick up the small STK M series & this only has a 660x660 cutting bed & stands 1700mm tall
best wishes
all the best
best wishes

motoxy
18-02-2012, 12:10 PM
WOW! They are beautiful.
Bruce

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27824]
Our machines do weigh a great deal even our standard models are very heavy which is why they are so rigid no additional bracing is needed on this model they really are solid, but i do understand your concern as you just cannot see from the pictures but once you see them in the flesh "so to speak" its only then you get some idea of how rigid they are customers are always surprised by the weight of the machines.



Ok first off PLEASE PLEASE don't under estimate the knowledge and expereince of some of the people you are speaking to here on the forum. I know exactly the weight and strength of the materials you use because I use them also.! . . BUT . . . There's a difference between material weight and mechanical stength.!
My reference to bracing had nothing to do with the material weight or choice and everything to do with the structural bracing.! . . . Which IMO at this size and proportions it's lacking.!

I agree 110% regards building the machine to do an intended job. . BUT . . in this case while YES it will fullfill the "Brief" it could have been so much better for so little more.!! . . Or better put you spoilt the broth to save a pinch more salt.!!

Given the full picture regards componets then with a bit more bracing (Esp the BED) and a REAL Z Axis then this machine could handle most jobs and materials upto Aluminium with good usable DOC.! . . .As it is now it will always be lacking.!!

My view and feelings regards machines built in this manner with these materials is that they are built purely with ease of build to extract maximum profit using off the shelf products. This often leads to comprimise, whether that be finacial or strength, they generaly lack in one or the other.!

IMO given the fact that at £3860(taking away the £600 for the enclosure) and the very fact that building this machine how you do requires very little equipment other than a decent drill press and could be built in just a few days then you are still making very good profit. Certainly enough to give a better Z axis using at least supported round rails and couple more piece's of profile for the bed.!!. . . . This would make the machine capable of so much more.!!

I wish you every success and please don't take my comments as a personal attack,.they are observations and MY OPINOINS gained from my experience building machines for my self and others and which I was invited to give (And feel should be said for the sake of others). I fully understand the need for profit being in business 0ver 25 years my self but some times saving that "Pinch of salt" really does spoil the soup IMO..!!!

Robin Hewitt
18-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Personally I like a lot of dead weight, but that's just me. It looks wonderful, if I needed a router I'd buy one :smile:

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Do we get a movie?

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 12:59 PM
Personally I like a lot of dead weight, but that's just me.

Yep me too Robin if it's used correctly. . . . As we know Mass can be your friend. It also weddles the weak bits out pritty quick.!!

Also forgot to say LOVE THE SPEAKERS. .:toot:

Shinobiwan
18-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Hi Jazz

Its would have been nice to have even more for my money but I already got a lot for £4.5k.

Commercially I couldn't find a better deal. Even shipping a Chinese machine would have been more expensive after shipping and taxes.

Here's a couple of examples I looked at:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leasing-Desktop-CNC-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Router-/310244823352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item483c085138#ht_1330wt_1396
Marchant Dice were wanting £5.5k for this desktop model with no base or enclosure, no hiwin on the X, no Dual steppers on the X, smaller alu profiles, smaller cutting area.

http://cnc-step.de/en/products-cnc-routers-cnc-router-cnc-engravers/high-z-t-series-cnc-router-routers-milling-machines/77-portalfraese-portalfraesmaschinen-cnc-milling-machine-cnc-milling-machines
The closest spec Heiz machine is the S-1400/T at around £8k once you add the base but its still not as well specified. It has awkward bed size that doesn't accept 4x4ft, there's unsupported rails on the Z and Y, no enclosure, and I'd say its generally of a lighter construction.

Did I mention that £4.5k also included delivery on the back of a HGV? That had to have cost around £200-300. The old man is HGV driver and they don't work for nothing. I consider your comments very useful and food for thought. Maybe strike will integrate the suggestions as standard but there's no denying the price would go up.

As for my machine I consider it a starting point. Looking at the Z axis its relatively easy to replace the unsupported rails with hiwin. Its a matter of carefully measuring, marking and then drilling and tapping a few dozen holes. So its not like I'm stuck with this forever. You suggestions to firm up the table are good one's and could be done easily too. For now I'm going to use what I have and as I start to feel the need to upgrade things I've got that option, especially with folks like yourself who have a lot of knowledge in this area.

Would it possible to visit you Jazz? Or someone else near Chesterfield to chat about these things and look at your setup? I know very little and that would be a huge boost for me.

EDIT: Thanks for the comment on the speakers :)

Strike CNC
18-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Hi i do invite constructive criticism

As said this was a custom machine for the customers design brief we did offer the customer supported rails as they said in previous posts we can only supply the customer with what they can afford & this machines fits the design brief for the job in hand for the customers budget & please remember the 600.00 for the enclosure included the materials for the much lager base needed to house the enclosure
& i really do not think you can make this machine in a couple of days with only a drill press & if you could i for one would not want a machine made with a drill press in a garden shed even in a tool room that was rushed to be built in a few days our machines are manufactured with a range of heavy duty equipment including CNC mills , manual bridgeport mills ,large colchester lathes to mention but a few & these are only the tool room machines not the manufacturing area we are engineering company by trade with a fully equipped manufacturing facility as well as the tool room we also have the display unit , there are also a lot of other factors in price including the free delivery for this machine at a cost of £290.00 incl VAT

QUOTE
"Given the full picture regards components then with a bit more bracing (Esp the BED) and a REAL Z Axis then this machine could handle most jobs and materials up to Aluminium with good usable DOC.! . . .As it is now it will always be lacking.!!"


We did expect to receive some comments from others & some competition & i do welcome it but this & please JAZZ i do not want to seem confrontational this machine was not supposed to be used for a wide range of materials as it was made to the customers design brief for his amazing speakers & budget
as i said we are currently manufacturing x5 machines at present with one of them a 8x4" 4 axis CNC router with this customer we did not offer them the upgrade but only gave then the choice of 20-25mm hiwin rails as a machine of this size in our opinion can only run on the profile rails one of these these machines are nearly ready & i will post pics & yes you will see this one has a heavier duty bed for the job it is designed for

Please i do not want to offend & i am not underestimating your knowledge as you use extrusion regularly then you also know all suppliers of extrusion have different grades one company's heavy grade is another company's standard grade or even light grade we have tried 7 companies from the UK & know ours come from Germany

We have many upgrades available & the customers have the choice to upgrade or not it is ultimately down to the customers budget so please bear this in mind but i do welcome your comments
best wishes

Shinobiwan
18-02-2012, 01:37 PM
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Do we get a movie?

That's the plan once I get it up and running. There's a couple of jobs to do before that can happen:

Dust extraction. Gotta cut a hole the top of the enclosure and plumb this in.
The doors at the rear need modifying as I changed where the machine was going at the last minute and didn't want to hold up the machine any longer. Without the mod its difficult to open the doors because of limited space.
I bought one of the 3HP Chinese water cooled spindle & vfd packages off ebay and it arrived yesterday so now I have the dilemma of choosing whether to get up and running quickly with the Kress or wait for some mounts and install the spindle/vfd combo.

Shinobiwan
18-02-2012, 01:42 PM
Here's the door mod which will roughly half the distance required from the wall and will allow me to get in at the back for clamping, cleaning etc.

John S
18-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Hey Jazz, I'm a gnats left bollock away from signing a cheque to buy one of these 6040 routers from China.

Do you want to give me a quote on a better one or at least more bang for the buck ?

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 02:42 PM
Would it possible to visit you Jazz? Or someone else near Chesterfield to chat about these things and look at your setup? I know very little and that would be a huge boost for me.

Ah ah if you seen my machine you'd say WTF how dare you speak.! . . . Thou It's more a case of judge me on what I do not what I do it on. . LoL . . It's not pritty but it's built very very strong and accurate.

To be honest I'm not keen on visitors(got my reasons which I won't go into on here.) but I'm more than happy to visit you and discuss or help things with your machine.

Regards the WC spindle you have obvisously felt the weight difference from the Kress and I'm sure this will have an impact on the Z axis the way it's setup at the minute.
I honestly feel that you'll end up wanting to change this sooner rather than later when you get more into CNC and all the wonderful opertunity's it presents.

By the way I'd go for the WC straight away, they difference in noise alone is worth the trouble. The fact it makes the kress look like a toy is just a bonus.!!

John S
18-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Difference in noise isn't as great as some think.
True the WC spindles are quiet, quieter than my air cooled high speed spindle but in use the noise of the cutter in the material is far higher than the noise of the spindles.

I do agree though that the Air or Water Cooled spindles are far superior than the Kress units and I have used all three.

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 02:58 PM
Hey Jazz, I'm a gnats left bollock away from signing a cheque to buy one of these 6040 routers from China.

Do you want to give me a quote on a better one or at least more bang for the buck ?

Ah ah . . . Now You Old Bastard(Said Jokingly & Warmly) I know, you know, I know that you know your just taking the PISS and I can't match our little Oriental friends on price. . . Easy enough to make a better one as you know but you could easily do that your self now can't you. .:whistling:

If your serious then PM me. . . . You even have my Email.???

Strike CNC
18-02-2012, 03:08 PM
it seems my posts are not being listed on the forum Hmm?

i did post several replies but they went to the moderators , i do not underestimate your knowledge but would like to see the pictures of the machines you designed & built ,your comment regarding you can build this machine with a drill press in a few days is highlighted & to be commended but i personally would not like to receive a CNC router used for precision machining that i payed good money for made with a drill press let alone made in a few days , this would be the difference between us we do this for a living & intimately know each component & there limitations that comes with the experience gained from designing & testing machines across multiple platforms to weed out all the bugs any CNC design must go through countless revisions to fine tune the design ,first & foremost we are a engineering company with a manufacturing facility that houses CNC mills , manual bridgeport mills & large colchester lathes & this is just in the tool room used for our jigs ,we know the tensile strength of each beam & have run hundreds of tests with the various sizes over the years so we can recognise the material structural limits ,the support you speak of are directly proportionate the the integrity of the beam used & as you use extrusion you will also know there are various suppliers & one suppliers heavy grade is an other's light grade we have tried & tested extrusion from 7 of the UK suppliers & know our extrusion comes from Germany i do fear you may be thinking it is a lighter grade than it actually is.

Another point is the heiz models these use unsupported rails on all axis even at 1400mm long they also have no where near the support ours have & yet they have a great pedigree & reputation we have only got to this point by endless testing of each machine in this range & please remember we offered this customer the hiwin supported rail upgrade we can only go with the customers decision & budget there is nothing currently in this price range for this size of machine & the price is very competitive also one does have to question your motives behind your criticism towards the machine whilst also trying to make a sale on this thread of supplying one of your own CNC routers to another user this speaks volumes
i would also of understood your concerns if this was a general CNC router but it was not as it was for for the customers particular design spec of machining these high end speakers
i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
pictures of your work would be appreciated for us all to see your own machine
best wishes

John S
18-02-2012, 03:17 PM
it seems my posts are not being listed on the forum Hmm?

????

Your previous ones are showing?

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 03:25 PM
Hey Jazz, I'm a gnats left bollock away from signing a cheque to buy one of these 6040 routers from China.

Do you want to give me a quote on a better one or at least more bang for the buck ?

Hey John If I did this would you pay me £405 to deliver it from Barnsley like this these want. . .:rofl:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-6040-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-DEVICE-k1-/190566921957?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Weldin g_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c5eac76e5

John S
18-02-2012, 03:40 PM
Sure, no problem if you make it for £805.
It's their way of getting Ebay fees down, you don't pay fees on shipping. One thing about this Portsmouth mob is that the machines are in country and you won't get hit by any import, handling or VAT.

To be honest you would be hard pressed to make one for this total amount even if you threw your labour in at zero

Gary
18-02-2012, 04:53 PM
I live an hour from Portsmouth so have emailed them to see if i could pick up. see what that say.

Yes it does get the fees down, but you then get marked down on the DSR, and this will then effect your ability to sell on ebay.


Sure, no problem if you make it for £805.
It's their way of getting Ebay fees down, you don't pay fees on shipping. One thing about this Portsmouth mob is that the machines are in country and you won't get hit by any import, handling or VAT.

To be honest you would be hard pressed to make one for this total amount even if you threw your labour in at zero

Strike CNC
18-02-2012, 04:58 PM
[QUOTE=Strike CNC;27874]


Ok first off PLEASE PLEASE don't under estimate the knowledge and expereince of some of the people you are speaking to here on the forum. I know exactly the weight and strength of the materials you use because I use them also.! . . BUT . . . There's a difference between material weight and mechanical stength.!
My reference to bracing had nothing to do with the material weight or choice and everything to do with the structural bracing.! . . . Which IMO at this size and proportions it's lacking.!

I agree 110% regards building the machine to do an intended job. . BUT . . in this case while YES it will fullfill the "Brief" it could have been so much better for so little more.!! . . Or better put you spoilt the broth to save a pinch more salt.!!

Given the full picture regards componets then with a bit more bracing (Esp the BED) and a REAL Z Axis then this machine could handle most jobs and materials upto Aluminium with good usable DOC.! . . .As it is now it will always be lacking.!!

My view and feelings regards machines built in this manner with these materials is that they are built purely with ease of build to extract maximum profit using off the shelf products. This often leads to comprimise, whether that be finacial or strength, they generaly lack in one or the other.!

IMO given the fact that at £3860(taking away the £600 for the enclosure) and the very fact that building this machine how you do requires very little equipment other than a decent drill press and could be built in just a few days then you are still making very good profit. Certainly enough to give a better Z axis using at least supported round rails and couple more piece's of profile for the bed.!!. . . . This would make the machine capable of so much more.!!

I wish you every success and please don't take my comments as a personal attack,.they are observations and MY OPINOINS gained from my experience building machines for my self and others and which I was invited to give (And feel should be said for the sake of others). I fully understand the need for profit being in business 0ver 25 years my self but some times saving that "Pinch of salt" really does spoil the soup IMO..!!!



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​it seems my posts are not being listed on the forum Hmm?

i did post several replies but they went to the moderators & must have to wait , in the mean time i do not underestimate your knowledge but would like to see the pictures of the machines you designed & built ,your comment regarding you can build this machine with a drill press in a few days is highlighted & to be commended but i personally would not like to receive a CNC router used for precision machining that i payed good money for made with a drill press let alone made in a few days , this would be the difference between us we do this for a living & intimately know each component & there limitations that comes with the experience gained from designing & testing machines across multiple platforms to weed out all the bugs any CNC design must go through countless revisions to fine tune the design ,first & foremost we are a engineering company with a manufacturing facility that houses CNC mills , manual bridgeport mills & large colchester lathes & this is just in the tool room used for our jigs ,we know the tensile strength of each beam & have run hundreds of tests with the various sizes over the years so we can recognise the material structural limits ,the support you speak of are directly proportionate the the integrity of the beam used & as you use extrusion you will also know there are various suppliers & one suppliers heavy grade is an other's light grade we have tried & tested extrusion from 7 of the UK suppliers & know our extrusion comes from Germany i do fear you may be thinking it is a lighter grade than it actually is.

Another point is the heiz models these use unsupported rails on all axis even at 1400mm long they also have no where near the support ours have & yet they have a great pedigree & reputation we have only got to this point by endless testing of each machine in this range & please remember we offered this customer the hiwin supported rail upgrade we can only go with the customers decision & budget there is nothing currently in this price range for this size of machine & the price is very competitive also one does have to question your motives behind this by putting down the machine whilst also trying to make a sale on this thread by supplying one of your own CNC routers to another user this speaks volumes
i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
pictures of your work would be appreciated for us all to see your machine
best wishes

JAZZCNC
18-02-2012, 05:09 PM
To be honest you would be hard pressed to make one for this total amount even if you threw your labour in at zero

Just as an exercise to satisfy my curiosity I set about working the cost of building this machine complete with VFD etc and think it could be made for around 1K. Thou that would be with no labour involved plus as usual there'll be something I've over looked.!!

THOU. . . Must say It be a far better, stronger machine because I've priced for profile on gantry and supported rails all round and better quality ballscrew supports FK/FF also the spindle would be 1.5KW.

Like I say Just an Exercise so don't anyone get excited I'm not offering. .:nope: If you have the time then it's just about do-able.! . . . . If you want Profit then forget it.

JAZZCNC
19-02-2012, 03:13 AM
[QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27876]
also one does have to question your motives behind this by putting down the machine whilst also trying to make a sale on this thread by supplying one of your own CNC routers to another user this speaks volumes
i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
pictures of your work would be appreciated for us all to see your machine
best wishes

Absolutly no ulterior motive what so ever my friend, I'm strictly hobby use only with plenty of experience. To be honest most of what I do is make parts for other hobby users or help them with there builds/problems/info. Often I do this free of charge or for very little.

Yes I've built full machines small and large, very large in one case but to be honest this is my passion not my living and don't feel the need produce evidence to you or anyone. Basicly If they don't think I know what I'm talking about then don't ask me to help, either way I don't give a shit.!!

Regards trying to make a sale on the forum if you look again you'll see John S asked me not the other way round.! Also if you look even closer you'll find it was John's sweet way of having a little DIG at me to shut the f'%k-up. . . . BUT Me being ME and FIK as a plank it went way over my head.!!! . . . . . Plus I know the Old Bastard too well. (I'm not being offensive to John, anyone who knows him will see the funny side, including John)


The other thing I do lots of is help folks sort out poorly designed or so called "Professional built" machines and as such I see all kinds of build quality or lack of it in some case's.! . . . Your's I've yet to see but I'm sure I will sooner or later.!!

Can I suggest that instead of taking my comments as a personal attack with ulterior motive's you take them as critique thru exeperienced eyes and at very least look at what's been said.! . . . Hiding behind the "User request" hisn't good eneough IMO. It's your job to assist and if need be refuse to lower or comprimise the machines integrity by using inferior products or design.!!

After all this is a Public forum and while as usual I'm the first to open my BIG mouth on what negatives I see, I certainly wouldn't be the only one seeing this or thinking this and there would sooner or later be another saying it.? Probably the disgruntled users seeking advice but still would be said.
Again IMO it would be better to acknowledge and embrace critique then address any valid points and I do feel all the points I mentioned, mainly weak Z axis and Bed frame, after finding the full spec are perfectly valid given the price and the little extra cost to make right.!!. . . . . . Yes Maybe the comment about drill press and 2 days was a bit flippant.!! . . . It may take 3-4 days.!!!!!

Robin said it perfectly " The proof will be in the eating" so well see what cook thinks and I'll say no more other than Good luck and I wish you well in business. :tup:

Strike CNC
19-02-2012, 08:51 AM
[QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27904][QUOTE=Strike CNC;27894]

Absolutely no ulterior motive what so ever my friend, I'm strictly hobby use only with plenty of experience. To be honest most of what I do is make parts for other hobby users or help them with there builds/problems/info. Often I do this free of charge or for very little.


Thanks for the comments
but we are not hiding behind the customers design brief & you agreed it was met ,we also have a range of upgrades available including spindles,gantry's, supported & hiwin rails as well as various other components but this is ultimately down to the customer & there budget if the upgrade or not we cannot give away free upgrades to assit in the customer receiving a better quality machine we are a business & this is not the way upgrades work or a business should be run & i think this is where the problem lies you are looking at this from your point of view as a hobby user & your quote for the small 6040 machine demonstrates this you quoted 1000.00 for parts alone not including labour costs this is 1/4 the size of the enclosed CNC & our CNC also has the 1850mmx1750x1800 enclosure & base , we have to factor in a whole lot more for our costs even so 4460.00 for a fully enclosed CNC router with a foot print of 1850x1750x1800 is extremely good this customer even admitted they have been looking for a machine for 6 months & could not even find anything near that size with there budget & they received a large base & enclosure with 4mm lexan for good measure we even put them in another set of double doors for free as well as free delivery at a cost of 290.00 all in all this customer received a bargain

RE the bed the customer confirmed to me last night the bed has no flex with just the base once the place there spoil board on the bed it will be 35mm

again Re the Z axis i have already said we offered the customer the supported rail upgrade but he only went for this on one axis if there budget will not allow the upgrade this in not our fault again this machine met the customers design spec & budget upgrades are not free im afraid from any company as the many user will know

it is very easy to discriminate & pic work by just looking at pictures of a unfinished machine but we would not post pictures of a half built machine they were sent to the customer as he wished to have a update on the progress of his machine , a customer should never see a uncompleted machine but this one was insistent as i guess he was excited
you were making judgements on a unfinished machine again it would be nice if i could see pictures of your several machines as you do give out allot of valid advice it would be nice to see some of your own work as you know you only learn from expirence so your machines should be pretty good
all the best

John S
19-02-2012, 12:29 PM
Going slightly off at a tangent the Heiz machines seem to have a following as they can provide from stock, no waiting, have a flashy web site and loads and loads of buzz words. Anyone with half an engineering brain can see the short comings thay have but they have a market.
Would I buy one ? no I'd sooner buy a Chinese one and make the necessary mods to it and still be quids in.

However this forum isn't really the place to bash other peoples work. There is a fine line between bashing and useful criticism.

I can see the OP going for the Strike machine and his reasoning behind it. He has a product to make which I presume he understands. His job is not to spend time making a machine when he has a product to produce. In this case it looks like he's worked with Strike and they have come up with the goods and given the changes, on time.

That in itself is commendable today, says John who has just opened yet another Paypal dispute, this time for 20 3" pipe fittings they can't supply even though they can take the money !!

Strike CNC
19-02-2012, 01:08 PM
That in itself is commendable today, says John who has just opened yet another Paypal dispute, this time for 20 3" pipe fittings they can't supply even though they can take the money !![/QUOTE]

x20 3" pipe sounds intersting what project did you have you in mind for this & at least you have paypal to fall back on thats at least a positive

John S
19-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Nothing to do with CNC.
just some conversion flanges from 3" gas thread to 5" square for some replacement pumps for ???/

Robin Hewitt
19-02-2012, 01:49 PM
i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply

It's not easy when someone attacks your product on a web forum, I used to get a lot of that.

You can't tell them to go forth and multiply so you have to apply the old maxim, "Don't feed the Trolls".

Jazz isn't actually a troll, he's quite cuddly once you get to know him. I think he's just forgotten to take his meds :naughty:

JAZZCNC
20-02-2012, 01:58 AM
I think he's just forgotten to take his meds :naughty:

Certainly could have used some Meds today Robin. .:redface:

Robin Hewitt
20-02-2012, 11:00 AM
Certainly could have used some Meds today Robin. .:redface:

I know the feeling but I avoid meds, I've seen too many people rot their brains. Thanks for not being cross with me :beer:

Is this particular pudding over egged, under egged or just so? We won't know until he switches it on.

Do we have any cutting specs? What kind of tolerances and feed rates are we looking for?

Shinobiwan
20-02-2012, 12:08 PM
Hi Robin,

I won't get chance to do anything with the machine for another week or two. As soon as its up and cutting I'll post a video and details on here.

Ideally I'm looking at cutting at 2000mm/min with 5mm DOC with 8mm dia cutter in MDF. I'm building loudspeaker cabinets and not space shuttle parts so for real world tolerances on parts I'll be happy with anything better than +/-0.2mm.

Shinobiwan
26-03-2012, 09:35 AM
Hey folks. After a spell of disappointments I've been wanting to update this thread with good news for awhile now

Its a long and probably not that interesting story but the original machine had issues with flex and play in the Z axis. With the help of JazzCNC(thanks mate) I found out the causes and took this information back to the manufacturer who did the right thing and agreed to rebuild the gantry. We stuck up a deal whereby they agreed to upgrade some of the gantry components because of inconvenience caused and I paid extra on top for them to use heavy gauge 200x40mm extrusion. You could argue that it should have been built like that from the start but I'm more interested in cutting now rather than questioning manufacturer build decisions. The important thing is its fixed and looking good for materials up to aluminium.

Jazz is sorting out some changes to the way the X axis ballscrews are mounted and I've still got a bunch of odd jobs to do here and there but I reckon it'll be cutting its first part within the next couple of weeks.

I've attached a few shots of the new gantry. Compare these to the original posted on page 4 of this thread. Looking in much better shape now.

luke11cnc
26-03-2012, 11:09 AM
I feel your pain But glad your machine has been returned and you are happy

did you get the controller box upgraded at the same time??

Looking forward to seeing the first set of speakers coming off your CNC Machine
James

Shinobiwan
26-03-2012, 11:23 AM
I feel your pain But glad your machine has been returned and you are happy

did you get the controller box upgraded at the same time??

Looking forward to seeing the first set of speakers coming off your CNC Machine
James

Cheers James.

The electronics supplied with the machine were OK but I wanted to more speed. To help with this, Strike did give me a 60v regulated PSU as part of the compensation but I had a change of plans and went with a pair of unregulated 70v supplies for the four drivers. I've taken it upon myself to upgrade the electronics and have got a lot of enjoyment out of doing that.

Jonathan
26-03-2012, 11:39 AM
Its a long and probably not that interesting story but the original machine had issues with flex and play in the Z axis. With the help of JazzCNC(thanks mate) I found out the causes and took this information back to the manufacturer who did the right thing and agreed to rebuild the gantry.

Now there's a surprise. Lets hope StrikeCNC do better with future machines.

Shinobiwan
26-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Now there's a surprise. Lets hope StrikeCNC do better with future machines.

Well that's it. They did fix the issues and added a bunch of extra's on to the machine for the hassle. Building two gantrys surely wasn't much of an exercise in maximising profitability so I'm sure they'll learn from this and use it to avoid similar situations.

I don't really care about it now to be honest, once its up and cutting I doubt I'll remember at all.

JAZZCNC
26-03-2012, 06:13 PM
Do you lot know how hard it was for a bloke with a BIG MOUTH to keep it shut.. .:yahoo:

I was going to say Strike CNC should be commended for putting it right but won't because it should have been right first time round but they did show the mark of a good company and did the right thing eventually.!! . . . Anyway I'm just happy for Ant that he's almost back on track and Hopefully he'll be making nasty MDF dust by the end of Wed.!! . . . .Well maybe friday he'll be punchng holes in the bed and crashing the limits for the first few days I'm sure. .:joker: . . (Not that I've done that EVER. .:whistling:)

motoxy
26-03-2012, 08:51 PM
Nice to see a happy boy:dance:Now go and build some gorgeous cabinets.

The company building mine has gone on strike. But i will be back to work soon.

Bruce

JAZZCNC
26-03-2012, 09:03 PM
Nice to see a happy boy:dance:Now go and build some gorgeous cabinets.

The company building mine has gone on strike. But i will be back to work soon.

Bruce

Sack the Lazy Bastard.!!:wave:

(Eh LEE where's the kick in the nut's Smillie gone.????? I liked kick in the nuts.!! . . (Ermmm sounds bit wrong that don't it, but ya know what mean!!.))

motoxy
26-03-2012, 09:51 PM
I liked kick in the nuts.!!

Happy to oblige if required!:rofl:

Lee Roberts
26-03-2012, 10:12 PM
Its right here:5567

I went with the pink shoes just for you Jazzmin, i hope you like it :twisted:

JAZZCNC
26-03-2012, 10:55 PM
Its right here:5567

I went with the pink shoes just for you Jazzmin, i hope you like it :twisted:

Eh she kicks just like my Ex wife.!! . . . . She looks just like the fat bastard as well.. .:rofl:

audioandy
26-03-2012, 11:53 PM
And I will be the second in the queue :beer:

Shinobiwan
29-03-2012, 05:40 AM
Some small progress on the machine.

The rear doors have been modified to a two piece sliding design from the original double doors. I had to do this because space is tight and that made it a right pain in the backside to get in there. I've also fitted a larger e-chain to the gantry as the original was far too small for the spindle plumbing and various cable for spindle, home switch and stepper.

Shinobiwan
03-07-2012, 01:26 AM
Gotta love how slack I am! Its still half in pieces and hasn't cut much apart from air. My excuse? Well I've been putting off finishing what I started and instead using the old manual methods that have never failed me(that's a lie they fail me all the time).

I sense Jazz at the back tutting at me.

Its not all in vain though, I'm making a push to get things done at last. Who knows, it might cut its first useful part this year!

Anyway the control box is now wired up and ready to let out magic smoke! Only the vfd, random wiring, x axis ballscrews, home switches, testing and setup to go... ok I'm gonna shut up now because it'll end up on ebay otherwise.

Attached are the before and after shots.

motoxy
03-07-2012, 05:12 PM
Gotta love how slack I am!

Me too. Wiring is ready to begin but work has been weird at the moment. Although that may well be just an excuse.

Control box looks well tidy.

Bruce

Shinobiwan
03-07-2012, 05:33 PM
Me too. Wiring is ready to begin but work has been weird at the moment. Although that may well be just an excuse.

Control box looks well tidy.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

I know what you mean. I have little interest in the DIY side of CNC, ironic really since I bought a commercial machine and still ended up doing just that! Anyway its hard to build up the motivation to play around stripping wires and doing generally boring and fiddly jobs. But its getting beyond a joke now and I need to make a push otherwise all I have is an expensive lump of metal that isn't paying its way.

m.marino
04-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Nice AM882 drivers,

Trust me you will really notice a difference from the ones that you had been using. As far as wiring goes I have got it done to the point of the machine working and starting to earn it's keep. I still need to get a few parts of my own and get them fitted and done. Also need to get the relays I bought in place so that all the other work is safe guarded and reduce risk of things going wrong.

Just put your shoulder to it and get it done. No it is not fun and can be a pain in the back side but the end result will be worth it in productivity increase and increase in quality control. Then comes the fun of g-code, which so many think is just turn on the CAM program and plug in the code and I can tell you that is rarely the case unless you have done a huge amount of set up to the CAM program. Some CAM does not let you do that level of set up so you have to go in and edit the code to get a really nice finish.

Michael

JAZZCNC
04-07-2012, 01:03 PM
Nice AM882 drivers,

Trust me you will really notice a difference from the ones that you had been using.

Unfortunatly No he won't Micheal.? . . . The old ones never got used for much more than 10mins and never cut anything but air (Badly. .:stupid:).!! . . . . But your right in that there will be difference in the performance of the machine because he's gone from crappy chinese lead shine copies running 44V to kick arse lead shine full Digitals running 70V. . . He's going to be smiling from ear to ear. . :onthego:

Shinobiwan
08-07-2012, 04:57 AM
Looking good now.

More jobs done like the home switches, sliding doors and the rewire is finally complete(*#&! of a job! Will be glad if I never have to strip another wire in my life!).

Only the spindle plumbing and refit the x axis screws left.

audioandy
08-07-2012, 11:35 AM
Looking good, all the stripping of wires will be worth it in the end.
Looking forward to the first cut video :thumsup:

Shinobiwan
09-07-2012, 03:39 AM
all the stripping of wires will be worth it in the end.

'kin better be! Cheers Andy. Waiting on that slack mate of yours - Jazz. He's had the plans for my ballscrew mounts since April(might be exaggerating here) and every time I ask how they're coming along he always says he's been busy. Yeah busy chasing women haha

Z axis home switch done this evening.

Shinobiwan
10-07-2012, 05:20 AM
Fired it up for the first time and whilst nothing exploded(good) I did only have it on for about 5 seconds as the stepper motors were making an odd noise. Hard to describe it really but I'll have a go - the noise was a rising pitch kinda like a kettle coming to boil, the volume level of the noise was consistent and didn't increase. Maybe I'm being paranoid and whimped out unnecessarily but didn't fancy damaging the expensive electronics until I'd got the all clear on here.

I didn't have the PC hooked up to the machine but everything else was as you'd expect.

Gary
10-07-2012, 08:30 AM
Tune the motor with with driver and they will then be silent.
Also make sure you set the current to the peak value of the phase current of the motors.

Shinobiwan
10-07-2012, 08:46 AM
Thanks Gary I'll give that a try.

One thing I forgot to mention was the green led was flashing constantly. Does that mean anything to you?

Gary
10-07-2012, 08:58 AM
That is normal.

Thanks Gary I'll give that a try.

One thing I forgot to mention was the green led was flashing constantly. Does that mean anything to you?

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 12:46 AM
Sigh why are things never as simple as they should be.

Had it up and running with mach doing some jogging about and it jerks around like a jack hammer on the Y and Z stalls all the time even with low speed/accel. The software from Leadshine doesn't work for me either and throws up errors then crashes when reading or writing data to the drives.

Why didn't I spend the money on a nice long holiday instead!

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 01:11 AM
Found an updated version of the Leadshine software on their website. Hopefully this fixes the crashes.

Gary
11-07-2012, 01:11 AM
What errors are you getting?
the software works very well, and will alow you to get very smooth motion and reduce resonance to a minimum.
what RS232 cable are you using? and are you going from native RS232 or through a dongle?
You may be better to just do the Auto tune till you get it running right, then do the mach 3 motor tuning (set accel / de accel up) and so on.
after this if you want to tune more, then use the software, but in most cases it is not needed.


Sigh why are things never as simple as they should be.

Had it up and running with mach doing some jogging about and it jerks around like a jack hammer on the Y and Z stalls all the time even with low speed/accel. The software from Leadshine doesn't work for me either and throws up errors then crashes when reading or writing data to the drives.

Why didn't I spend the money on a nice long holiday instead!

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 01:19 AM
Hi Gary.

I'm using the leadshine RS232 cable(bought from you) and it plugs into the COM1 on the PC, no dongles or USB converters.

The motor tuning done by the DIP switch 4 doesn't rid the howling noise unfortunately.

I'll give this new version of the software a try. The one I was using seemed to be quite old 2010 vs 2012

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 02:43 AM
Newer version still does the same. Its odd because I can access everything within the software ie. the tuning options work and control the drives. But I can't read or write the RAM/EEPROM without getting the error.

The error is a string of numbers and letters followed by 'This type of data collation is not supported by the operating system'. Running XP btw.

I wouldn't be that bothered if the auto setting could get rid of that damn annoying howling noise. I was more impressed with the cheap chinese drives I had before than these and that's not saying much! I'll let Dean have a look at them when he's over but if I can't fix the issues can I return them for an exchange Gary?

Gary
11-07-2012, 07:49 AM
Have you tried another driver? is the problem with one driver?
is your version of windows 32 or 64 bit? did you do the tuning without any load on the motor shaft (Disconnected from the ballscrew?)
What is the motor? do you have the dasheet, and how are you connecting (Series or parallel) and what is the current set to?
These drivers are very good, and i personally use these drivers on my mill, and they are near silent and we only autotuned them.

Gary
11-07-2012, 07:50 AM
As with everything we sell, returns are accepted.

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 08:05 AM
Have you tried another driver? is the problem with one driver?

The noise is on all 4 steppers.


is your version of windows 32 or 64 bit?

XP 32bit fresh install with only mach installed


did you do the tuning without any load on the motor shaft (Disconnected from the ballscrew?)

A bit of both. 2 steppers (the Y and Z) are connect to the ballscrews and the dual steppers for the X are without.


What is the motor?

Nema 23 4Nm (8 lead type) on the X and Y. The Z is a Nema 23 3Nm.


do you have the dasheet

Have the datasheet from your webshop.


how are you connecting (Series or parallel) and what is the current set to?

Parallel wired and I've tried the current on the default (DIP 1,2,3=ON) and also 3.93A RMS (DIP 1 & 2=ON, 3=OFF)

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 08:07 AM
As with everything we sell, returns are accepted.

Thanks Gary. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet but its good to know if I can't resolve whatever it is that's causing the noise I can at least swap the drivers for something else.

Gary
11-07-2012, 09:21 AM
They are not our motors, we dont sell 4Nm motors (Nema 24) if the current is 4A, then you need to set this to the peak value not the RMS.
if you are setting to 4A RMS, the motors will most likley burn out, and may be the cause of the excess noise?

Gary
11-07-2012, 09:44 AM
Set the current to either 3.6 or 4.6A, but start at 3.6A peak.
see if this solves the noise problem?
Regarding the software problem, this could be noise? make sure the RS232 cable is away from any power cables, and also make sure that your signal cables (Step, direction and enable) are well away from any power cables like the motor and the power supply cables. I cant see in the picture if you have done this. Also are the motor power cables shielded? and grounded at one end?

Shinobiwan
11-07-2012, 09:59 AM
Set the current to either 3.6 or 4.6A, but start at 3.6A peak.
see if this solves the noise problem?
Regarding the software problem, this could be noise? make sure the RS232 cable is away from any power cables, and also make sure that your signal cables (Step, direction and enable) are well away from any power cables like the motor and the power supply cables. I cant see in the picture if you have done this. Also are the motor power cables shielded? and grounded at one end?

Thanks for the help.

The stepper cables are shielded and ground at the control box end.

I'll try changing the current to what you suggest. The motors still made the same noise with the default setting of 1A before I changed it to 3.93A so no damage done to the motors.

Will play around some more this afternoon based on whst you've suggested.

Gary
11-07-2012, 03:39 PM
OK, make sure that the rotary switch is in the "0" position.
Set the current to 3.6A and then power up.
Then move SW4 on and off twice to get the driver to tune to the motor specs.
Once this is done it should work ok.
Make sure the signal cables are not close to any power cables.
When you power the driers up, did the inverter for the spindle power up? if so disconnect it.




Thanks for the help.

The stepper cables are shielded and ground at the control box end.

I'll try changing the current to what you suggest. The motors still made the same noise with the default setting of 1A before I changed it to 3.93A so no damage done to the motors.

Will play around some more this afternoon based on whst you've suggested.

Shinobiwan
12-07-2012, 04:11 AM
OK result! The software is now working.

Took hours of faffing around and the solution wasn't clear at all!

Just in case anyone else runs into the error "Selected collating sequence not supported by the operating system." When trying to read or write data to the drives. Here's how I fixed it. You need to enable multi language within XP. Be sure your regional settings are English(UK) and then select the check boxes for Thai and also East Asian language support. And that's pretty much it. No idea why I had to do this but it refused to work without those options.

I've managed to eliminate the noise using manual setup but the autoset function brings it back. Seems that too high a Kp value increases the noise. The autoset function wants to set it around 2000 but to get the steppers silent you really need to be around 700. This value seems suboptimal as the rise time is fairly lax. Seems I have shite motors? Weird because the 3Nm behaves the same as 4Nm too, you'd think there'd be some difference unless they're both from the same manufacturer.

Anyway the drives are working well now so I'm happy there.

What's less good is the fact that Strike CNC have messed up on replacement parts and there's some binding issues in the Y and Z ballscrews. There's loose bolts, rail slides that haven't had their tension adjusted, missing screws from motor mounts, cock-eyed mounting of the supported rails on the Z front plate, damaged bearing in the floating end Z ballscrew support. AND that's in the replacement gantry that was supposed to fix all the other problems I had in the first one.

Now I've got strip the Z axis down, check and loctite every bolt. Thank god I've got the help of Dean because if I hadn't I'd have given up and cut my loses. The guy has spent hours on the phone and a couple of trips here and for virtually nothing. A true asset to the community.

Shinobiwan
12-07-2012, 08:45 AM
OK here's some shots of the problems with Strikes replacement Gantry.

Shinobiwan
12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
At this point I'm going to re-design the Z plate and then pay someone on here to cut the part.

I don't have many regrets in life but not building my own machine is now one of them.

Shinobiwan
12-07-2012, 08:54 AM
Btw is it essential to have the ballscrew floating end mount on? The bearing is damaged and I figure it isn't really needed for such a short ballscrew since its supported at the fixed end and the ballnut?

m_c
12-07-2012, 04:45 PM
Btw is it essential to have the ballscrew floating end mount on? The bearing is damaged and I figure it isn't really needed for such a short ballscrew since its supported at the fixed end and the ballnut?

Probably not.
The support bearings purpose in life is to support long screws from bending under thier own weight, and/or to stop screws from whipping when spun at speed.
If the screw is short enough/not spun fast enough that whipping is going to be an issue, and it's not long enough/mounted in a way it's own weight could bend it (i.e. hung vertically), then you don't need one.

I'm sure Jonathan will be along shortly with the required calcs for working out the theoretical critical/whipping speed (or just search for his posts, as he's covered it before)

Jonathan
12-07-2012, 07:16 PM
Agree with what m_c said. You can find the formula he suggested by searching for screw critical speed on google, but assuming the ballscrew is 350mm long the critical speed is 3500rpm - so 3500*5=17.5m/min. The formula isn't that accurate, but that's a huge amount more than you'll ever get on the Z-axis so you're fine to run it. It's <£2 for the bearing you need on eBay, so it's not much loss to get a new one, not that you should have to pay for it anyway.

This thread is the first result on Google for 'Strike CNC', so I wonder how long it will be until they re-brand!

I doubt they will go out of business soon, as it's so easy for these companies to blatantly lie about their products:

http://strikecncrouters.com/page2.htm

Gary
12-07-2012, 07:41 PM
If you want a critical speed calculator, i use this one.
http://www.nookindustries.com/ball/BallCalculators.cfm

Shinobiwan
12-07-2012, 07:52 PM
Agree with what m_c said. You can find the formula he suggested by searching for screw critical speed on google, but assuming the ballscrew is 350mm long the critical speed is 3500rpm - so 3500*5=17.5m/min. The formula isn't that accurate, but that's a huge amount more than you'll ever get on the Z-axis so you're fine to run it. It's <£2 for the bearing you need on eBay, so it's not much loss to get a new one, not that you should have to pay for it anyway.

This thread is the first result on Google for 'Strike CNC', so I wonder how long it will be until they re-brand!

I doubt they will go out of business soon, as it's so easy for these companies to blatantly lie about their products:

http://strikecncrouters.com/page2.htm

Not to worry Jonathan. If you lay too many bad eggs eventually it'll make a stink.

I'm not the only unhappy customer

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/europe_club_house/142356-information_strike-cnc_please.html

In particular this comment from that customer rings very true:

"On receiving my machine (the eBay service was great!), I found that the build quality was terrible....really terrible. Basically, I have completely rebuilt the machine, adding a host of parts that I made to strengthen and support the various axes. Most of the extrusions and support rails were not bolted correctly and the stepper motor mounts looked like they'd been chewed instead of machined!

However, I found that the price paid was actually not that bad, when used as a basis for a new machine, but you would most definitely need to at leat check the build quality or better still, strip it down completely."

JAZZCNC
12-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Go on Ant sock it to em.!!. . . . . Show the full length movie.! . .Lmao

Shinobiwan
13-07-2012, 01:13 AM
You mean this one mate?

That's the first attempt Strike had at my Gantry. Only a bit of play there in the Z axis!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee_2J13Ehrs&amp;feature=youtube_gdata

JAZZCNC
13-07-2012, 01:27 AM
You mean this one mate?

That's the first attempt Strike had at my Gantry. Only a bit of play there in the Z axis!

Ye thats the one.!!. . . The one with the gantry made from 6 pieces of 30x30 light extrusion with a single bolt thru the centre to hold together.!!

Shinobiwan
13-07-2012, 03:25 AM
Redone the Z front plate. Anyone help with cutting this? I'll pay of course!

Shinobiwan
19-07-2012, 07:25 PM
Just a heads up.

Strike CNC are trying to use strong arm tactics to silence any nay saying of their products.

Yep I've been threatened with legal action for slander, blackmail and loss of earning because of the content of this thread.

Here's a list of problems so far:



Gantry back constructed out of 6 sections of 30x30mm extrusion loosely coupled together and each only captured in the gantry uprights by a single bolt at each end. Result was a large amount of slop in the Z-axis and therefore cutting accuracy.
All ballscrews only captured by relying on bearings preventing movement of the ballscrew. This is inadequate build quality giving rise to allowing 'backlash' from said movement. Proper mounting methods is genuine ballscrew supports which use a nut on the threaded portion of the ballscrew to capture.
Advertised speeds were misleading at time of purchase. I was advised I'd get rapids of at least 5m/min when in reality this was 3m/min to run reliably and without stalling.
Electrical wiring substandard and has not been installed by a certified electrician nor does it meet the required safety standards by British law on a commercially sold machine. One example is broken wire insulation exposing live cable which could potentially come into contact with the chassis. No grounding on the chassis either. If I bought something like that from Currys, I wouldn't have shown the patience I have with Strike.
Various loose bolts, a few missing bolts and inaccurately machine parts. When you buy something for approx £4500 you expect better.
Replacement parts supposed to address most of the previous issues failed to do so and only introduced more problems. So far I've had to replace the Z axis front plate with a new part because the previous's mounting method for the supported rails meant it was impossible to adequately tighten due to recessed nuts. A big oversight for such a critical component. Also having to replace the Y axis ballscrew as its bent and causes severe vibration of the machine.


You might be wondering why on earth haven't I done something about all this before now? Well I'm a nice guy and only want what I paid for. I've been incredibly patient with Strike and gone out of my way to help them help me. I've Travelled 300 miles to and from Chesterfield to Micheldean not once but twice to courier parts around. Also for the past few months I've been playing the role of repair guy because they offer little support outside of "Send it back at your cost, we'll fix it and then bill you for delivery". Well to send the machine back would cost £300 each way as its a 500kg nearly 2m cubed lump. You read the fine print when buying and this is stated so I wasn't surprised but when it comes from incompetence and care building your machine then it does become a very annoying issue. Its other things too like the fact they had a month to make replacement parts and once done I arranged to collect on a set date and was told they were tested and ready. I arrived on the agreed date and time only to find they hadn't tested and problems were ensuing that meant I had to sit in the car for 5 hours outside their premises waiting. Stuff like that shouldn't happen and was the last thing I wanted after a 150 mile drive there whilst facing the same to get back home.

As for blackmail, I really have no idea where this has come from. Its nothing more than an excuse to try and stop me coming to the forums to ask for help resolving the problems. They're claiming I've blackmailed them into giving me parts like the supported rails on the Z, hiwin rail Y axis, proper ballscrew supports and increased voltage PSU in return for my silence on here. Rubbish. I told them exactly what I wanted and that was my problems gone and for them to supply the machine spec'd to the speeds and accuracies stated by them when ordered. In light of the issues they offered those upgrades as they felt it would be the best course of action to remedy the problem and so I never asked/demanded anything more than a fix for the problems. Had they done that to a satisfactory standard I'd have been a happy customer. However I've made it quite clear to them all along that I'm no fool either and despite being appreciative of 'upgrades' if they failed to fix the problems(they have) I'll take my problems online and try to resolve my issues. That's where I am right now and at this point I have no faith in Strike CNC, I don't want them involved in fixing the machine any longer because that's my prerogative and its supported by a string of failures from Strike CNC which every time cost me money/time.

I don't for a minute believe I've blackmailed them into anything and its incredibly unprofessional for them to blantantly lie in order to give themselves the appearance of a legal high ground. Ironic really because I should be the one sueing them. I've got projects on the go totalling a considerable amount of money and the whole purpose of the buying the machine was to speed up manufacturing and increase product quality. Its not cut a single thing yet and I ordered December 12th 2011.

I don't take kindly to their tactics. Its highly unprofessional of a company.

Shinobiwan
19-07-2012, 07:55 PM
A big thanks to Dean for coming around yesterday and helping out with assistance and several new parts.

The Z axis is now working nicely and the Leadshine drives make a huge difference compared to the old ones.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjN3CqJdw2w&amp;feature=youtube_gdata

mocha
19-07-2012, 08:07 PM
Good news about the Z! video looks very smooth. Thanks for posting the update, a shame its gone that way.

luke11cnc
19-07-2012, 08:16 PM
I can't believe it's still on going

I feel so very sorry for you but know your in good hands with Jazz

James

Buba b
19-07-2012, 09:30 PM
I looked at the ready made routers on sale before i started making my own and came to the quick conclusion that making my own was the only way to get any standard of build quality. The one thing i found was nearly all the routers had the same design faults that would make there use to the specs they advertised unlikely , mainly with unsupported Z axis rail .
When i saw this thread and the replies from Strike CNC ( at the start ! ) i hoped that the supplier would take the criticism on board and use it and the forum to make a better machine that the forum could promote over the other crap out there. Its a shame that Strike are just like the many other suppliers looking to make a big profit at the expense of good solid design. Which comes as a big surprise as didn't he say they had carried out exhaustive testing of their machines ?
And yep that gantry made of 30x30 extrusion on a £4500 router was just plain embarrassing , how on earth anyone would think that would work is just beyond me ! .... i mean come on ! ... explain how that would work better or as good as a single piece of extrusion or / even plate ?.
I would love to put it through Solidworks stress analysis , i think the program would piss its self laughing at me ! , shame i don't know how too would enjoy the laugh .
L8r

Shinobiwan
19-07-2012, 11:18 PM
When i saw this thread and the replies from Strike CNC ( at the start ! ) i hoped that the supplier would take the criticism on board and use it and the forum to make a better machine that the forum could promote over the other crap out there.

This was exactly my hope after speaking with them. Instead it feels like the only thing they did was offer a bunch of upgrades to smooth things over. Well no one cares about upgrades, all they want is something that works as advertised!

Glad your having fun building your own buba.

JAZZCNC
20-07-2012, 12:14 AM
I would love to put it through Solidworks stress analysis , i think the program would piss its self laughing at me ! , shame i don't know how too would enjoy the laugh .
L8r



Ha ha know you are having a laugh.!! Pretty sure solid works wouldn't have any stress analysis that go low enough. .:thumbdown:

To be honest Ant is being far too lenient with his description about the level of build quality. The lack of engineering care and build quality goes beyond inept to the point of down right dangerous regards the electrics.

If this machine had been electrically tested or inspected to comply with BS EN 60204-1:2006 + Amendment1:2009 for working machinery or any of the HSE BS EN codes relating to machinery safety it would have had the plug cut-off and a big sticker saying "Condemned".
If the HSE got involved someone would be in for a hefty fine or heaven for bid worse case someone got injured or electrocuted then a free holiday at HMP would be given I'm sure.!

If an engineering test to determine "Fit for purpose" then it would have a BIG fail sticker along with a hefty list of fail points.!!

I'm in business and know fully how difficult times are out there so I take no pleasure in seeing or reporting things like this.!
When I first saw this machine I can honestly say it turned my stomach having to tell a nice guy like Ant all the issue's I was seeing.! To be honest I only went to help tune the motors etc but came away feeling like the grim reaper.:sorrow:

How any company could in all seriousness turn something like this out and not expect bad feed back is beyond me.! And how they can complain when they are given a second chance get out of jail free card and still messup then use bully threatening tactics when the truth is told or shown is just out right shameful. . :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

John S
20-07-2012, 12:44 AM
many people do not understand the power of the forums and Internet.
At one time it was go see a lawyer, pay a hat full of money and hope the legal system would do the right thing for you. 'fraid that has all changed.

Now no one is perfect, everybody drops a bollock from time to time. What matters is not that you dropped the bollock but how you treat the customer and what you do to rectify the problem to both of yours satisfaction.

I have seen this machine and in all fairness a lot of what was wrong with it had been done at this point but there was still some issues with the twin leadscrews and the Z axis. One thing and I don't know if Ant posted a picture but the front section of the alloy extrusion had been drilled away with a big rotary saw for clearance for the bearing blocks.
Only problem was none of the holes were anywhere near where the screws wanted to go. Massive rat holes carved into new alloy extrusion, disgraceful on a new machine.

WandrinAndy
20-07-2012, 01:05 AM
many people do not understand the power of the forums and Internet. ...

Now no one is perfect, everybody drops a bollock from time to time. What matters is not that you dropped the bollock but how you treat the customer and what you do to rectify the problem to both of yours satisfaction.

Couldn't agree more. I think Ant started this thread to pass on what he believed to be a good deal with a UK company, because he was chuffed with his new baby even before it was born!

This could have been very positive for the builders of this machine, but sadly turned out otherwise... for all concerned.

Shinobiwan
20-07-2012, 01:44 AM
I'm in business and know fully how difficult times are out there so I take no pleasure in seeing or reporting things like this.!
When I first saw this machine I can honestly say it turned my stomach having to tell a nice guy like Ant all the issue's I was seeing.! To be honest I only went to help tune the motors etc but came away feeling like the grim reaper.:sorrow:

Don't forget the bit about me loosing over 3 stone since I bought this, oh and I should have been getting married next month but that's off now lol.

You think I'm joking. I'm not!

Meh it'll be a funny story to tell the grand kids one day.

JAZZCNC
20-07-2012, 02:03 AM
Don't forget the bit about me loosing over 3 stone since I bought this, oh and I should have been getting married next month but that's off now lol.

You think I'm joking. I'm not!

Meh it'll be a funny story to tell the grand kids one day.

Oh ye and Ant was a Fat bastard like me but now he's Sleek mean shagging machine who'll realise one day just what a lucky escape he had from the ball & chain.!! . . . He's still Ugly thou. .:playful:

Shinobiwan
20-07-2012, 02:18 AM
Well the good thing is I don't have to hide the receipts down the back of the sofa anymore. In fact the only real down side is all the wear and tear on my joints - I'm gonna need a wrist replacement by the time I'm 50! lol

I was going to throw an insult back at you for the ugly joke but I just realised I still need some parts/help so I'll wait till afterwards :playful:

jonbabbz
20-07-2012, 11:05 AM
So sorry to hear of your cnc troubles. I too had a few teething problems with a machine bought from a so called reputable company(no names) a while ago, after all the mods I did to it and basically rebuilding it from scratch, I figured I could do a much better build myself! Maybe you would have been better off having a go at one yourself? As the old saying goes, if you want something doing right......it will definitely work out well with Jazz at the helm now though :)

Shinobiwan
22-07-2012, 01:38 AM
A quick question.

What microstepping should I be using on each axis (default is 8 which I assume is 1/8th) and also the steps per setting within mach.

Ballscrews are X = RM2005, Y = RM1610 and Z = RM1205

m_c
22-07-2012, 02:18 AM
Common microstepping practice is 8.

Steps per unit, you need to calculate using whatever units you're using (normally MM or Inch), pitch of ballscrew, number of steps per motor revolution, and drive ratio between screw and motor.

For 5mm screw, using MM, a standard 200 step stepper motor, and direct drive, to move 1mm, you need to rotate the motor 1/5th of turn to move 1mm.
So 1/5th of 200 is 40 motor steps.
Now to move 40 motor steps using 8 microstepping, is 40x8=320 steps per unit.
For 10mm pitch screw, you can simply half the above to give 160 steps per unit.

Robin Hewitt
22-07-2012, 11:44 AM
For 10mm pitch screw, you can simply half the above to give 160 steps per unit.


Or, switch that axis to 16 microsteps and have 'em all the same.

John S
22-07-2012, 12:15 PM
Every time you increase microsteps you loose torque.
There is no advantage in going above 8 and you only have to do the setup once.

Shinobiwan
22-07-2012, 03:34 PM
Cheers for that.

I seem to be at a brick wall with the parallel port and motor speeds. The port will handle upto 35Khz, anymore and the PC starts to play up. This limits me to rapids of about 6m/min with 8x microstepping on the 5mm pitch screws. Its not really a big deal as the machine wouldn't handle cutting at those speeds anyway. Might have to consider a smoothstepper or perhaps lower the microstepping to 4x on the drivers. Is that's a good move or should I just be happy with what I've got?

Shinobiwan
22-07-2012, 03:54 PM
Another quick question.

I bought one of these for the spindle http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3000-LITRE-INLINE-IMMERSIBLE-WATER-PUMP-FOR-KOI-FISH-POND-/180902091640?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFea tures_UK&hash=item2a1e9adb78#ht_2067wt_1064

Now the only problem is finding adaptors to allowing fitting 4mm ID tubing the Chinese spindles use. I know your probably going to say google is your friend but I've been 'looking' for awhile now and still no luck.

Shinobiwan
22-07-2012, 04:32 PM
I'm wiring up the spindle and have another question.

There's 3 wires for the 3phase power along with a ground. Can I identify which pins are the correct one's for the power and which is the ground? I notice the GX16 connector that these spindles use have their pins marked 1-4. I assume 1-3 are power and 4 is ground?

JAZZCNC
22-07-2012, 05:22 PM
I'm wiring up the spindle and have another question.

There's 3 wires for the 3phase power along with a ground. Can I identify which pins are the correct one's for the power and which is the ground? I notice the GX16 connector that these spindles use have their pins marked 1-4. I assume 1-3 are power and 4 is ground?

Ant Think you'll find the 4th hisn't connected to anything.? Just test with circuit tester and you'll get no readings from that pin when connected either to any of the other pins or body.

Shinobiwan
22-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Its not connected? Seems a bit silly. I was going to ground the spindle with that and also use it to complete the circuit for the tool height probe too. How did you ground yours?

JAZZCNC
22-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Its not connected? Seems a bit silly. I was going to ground the spindle with that and also use it to complete the circuit for the tool height probe too. How did you ground yours?

Mine hisn't grounded and it doesn't need to be.! The VFD takes care of the EARTH side just make sure the VFD is EARTHED and it will be fine.
You could if you wanted belt and braces safety introduce a EARTH wire direct to the EARTH point in the control box but this is very different to DC ground the I/O's use.?
If the spindle shorts internally the VFD will trip so power will be cut and 99% of time this is fine.!! But if for some unlucky reason it didn't then the earth would leak back to the PCB trip so it does make it slightly safer.! . . . BUT. . .It can also work against you in some case, esp with a VFD, by using the long wire has an antena sending out electrical noise.?

Dont confuse the AC earthing to DC grounding that the I/O pins use.? Yes effectively they both end up at the same place but they are done very differently.
When your probing your complelting the DC circuit from the PP I/O pins which is low voltage low amps. If the machine frame is EARTHED and the spindle hisn't isolated thru bearings etc then often the circuit will complete because like I say the ultimately end back up at the same place EARTH.! . . Often and I'm 99% sure will be the case for you the spindle will return to Earth and allow the DC input circuit to complete.! . . . Again if you want belt n braces approach or for some reason the spindle is isolated then use a wire DIRECT from the DC negative pin of the BOB input NOT the EARTH of the control box and agian to avoid noise issues just use a temporey crocodile cliptype affair.! (BUT I'm 99.9 sure you won't need too)

EDIT: Do recommend you run a short as possible EARTH wire from star point in control box to the machine frame just in case of AC short of any kind. This will also more than likely be enough to allow the negative side of the DC input a path back to complete circuit.

jimg100
24-07-2012, 10:36 AM
I bought a strike CNC balls up this year, it too was a month+ late and had all the above faults and more. It was supposed to have traverse speeds of 6m/min+ but Michael Powel advised that 6 would be best, to date I can only run at 2m/min. I went through the control cabinet and reconnected all the wires as they had been stripped too far and were also all loose one fell out of the emergency stop switch.
Is Strike still going or have they gone bust as they are'nt answering any cals or emails?

Shinobiwan
24-07-2012, 06:01 PM
I bought a strike CNC balls up this year, it too was a month+ late and had all the above faults and more. It was supposed to have traverse speeds of 6m/min+ but Michael Powel advised that 6 would be best, to date I can only run at 2m/min. I went through the control cabinet and reconnected all the wires as they had been stripped too far and were also all loose one fell out of the emergency stop switch.
Is Strike still going or have they gone bust as they are'nt answering any cals or emails?

Sorry to hear of that Jim. Its a horrible feeling isn't it.

I assume Strike CNC are still active because I had an email from them saying they were taking legal action against me for the contents of this thread.

My advice is to do what I did and contact Trading Standards giving them a full and detailed report of situation your in and the faults with the machine. If you believe it was dangerous tell them that too and why. Even better if you have photographs.

Here's the details for trading standards and citizens advice along with the telephone number for both. You might be better off finding your local trading standards office and calling them, I did this.
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/
08454 04 05 06

Good luck and keep us updated.

jimg100
24-07-2012, 06:17 PM
If he does take legal action it will be good as it will be at his cost and if we stand together there is no way he can win, we may even get some money back or our machines sorted.I am just putting my X axis back with new SKF bearings as the 4 supplied gave up the ghost.
I have kept all my emails from him and have taken pictures of all the poor machining including the mods I have had to do to achieve a 150mm Z axis.
Sorry to hear of that Jim. Its a horrible feeling isn't it.

I assume Strike CNC are still active because I had an email from them saying they were taking legal action against me for the contents of this thread.

My advice is to do what I did and contact Trading Standards giving them a full and detailed report of situation your in and the faults with the machine. If you believe it was dangerous tell them that too and why. Even better if you have photographs.

Here's the details for trading standards and citizens advice along with the telephone number for both. You might be better off finding your local trading standards office and calling them, I did this.
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/
08454 04 05 06

Good luck and keep us updated.

Shinobiwan
24-07-2012, 06:33 PM
When the machine first arrived Strike helped me over the phone to setup and part of that involved changing some DIP switches on the drivers.

Here's what I found in the control box on closer inspection.



230v wires exposed out of the estop
230v live wire sheathing damage potentially allowing for contact with the chassis
No chassis ground so if the above happened your going to get electrocuted
DC Wiring colour coding reversed in places and then in others its as you'd expect.


I've attached images of these and informed Strike back in February when they came. The issue was side stepped and I took it upon myself to completely strip out the electronics and re-wire to a safe standard.

Jimg100. Is this the sort of thing you saw on your machine?

John S
24-07-2012, 06:52 PM
Regulations in the UK on estops state they must be 48 volts max,

jimg100
24-07-2012, 06:52 PM
Almost exactly the same all the wires going into those green plugs had been stripped to far and so there was approximately 6mm of bare copper with odd strands that were not clamped and so a possible short and several wire were not clamped tightly enough and I pulled them out easily.
Is it ok to put my phone number on here as I would rather talk on the phone?

Shinobiwan
24-07-2012, 07:33 PM
Regulations in the UK on estops state they must be 48 volts max,

After my rewire its now 24v and wired to a relay which cuts 230v to the drivers and in turn to the estop input for BOB/Mach. But yes Strike had put it inline with the 230v supply to cut power.

Shinobiwan
24-07-2012, 07:34 PM
Is it ok to put my phone number on here as I would rather talk on the phone?

You can PM me your number as I wouldn't recommend posting a phone number on a public forum.

Or I can give you mine if that's easier.

JAZZCNC
24-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Regulations in the UK on estops state they must be 48 volts max,

Ah ah John the only Regs this shower know about is Reg fries from Mcdonalds. . :whistle:

motoxy
24-07-2012, 09:43 PM
Oh dear., It just gets worse.

JAZZCNC
24-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Oh dear., It just gets worse.

No bruce it just begin's.!! . . . Wait untill all the others start coming out the closet.!!!!!!!!!

Shinobiwan
25-07-2012, 12:18 AM
Homing switches now configured and working. Only the Z axis functional at the moment but I'm happy with the result.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66AaJS79crc&amp;feature=plcp

Shinobiwan
08-08-2012, 04:37 AM
Here's a CAD knockup along with a few minor improvements and new Z axis.

Ballscrew for the Y to replace the bent one arrived from China. Impressed with the service and price from Chai. A little over £70 for a 1.4m long 1610 with the ballnut.

audioandy
09-08-2012, 12:17 AM
Hi Ant

Nice CAD models what software are you using?

mocha
09-08-2012, 12:53 AM
Hi Ant

Nice CAD models what software are you using?

I was thinking that, his pics look better than my extrusion that's sitting on the bench!! I bet it isn't cheap tho! (If it turns out to be sketchup then I'll eat a mcdonalds!)

Shinobiwan
09-08-2012, 02:06 AM
Cheers guys. Its solidworks for CAD and then Keyshot 2.3 for the renders.

KeyShot - 3D Rendering and Animation software (http://www.keyshot.com/)

These are pretty rough as things go. Done just to give me an overview of the machine really and make sure it fits together as expected. If you put the time in you can get some realistic rendering but its a lot of faffing adding small details in CAD and then playing with lighting and materials within Keyshot. Depends what your looking to achieve really.

Here's one that's had a bit more time spent on it.

Musht
09-08-2012, 02:32 AM
I was thinking that, his pics look better than my extrusion that's sitting on the bench!! I bet it isn't cheap tho! (If it turns out to be sketchup then I'll eat a mcdonalds!)

Kerkythea is good render engine at the right price, free:

Kerkythea (http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/)

there is a plug in exporter for sketchup

John S
09-08-2012, 10:11 AM
Absolutely brilliant renderings.
If it were me I'd throw that pile of shit machine way and put pictures up all round of what it should be like. Far more reliable.

Shinobiwan
09-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Haha John. True dat.

JAZZCNC
09-08-2012, 06:26 PM
Absolutely brilliant renderings.
If it were me I'd throw that pile of shit machine way and put pictures up all round of what it should be like. Far more reliable.

Foooooking Hell John Don't encourage him I'm having to calm him down has it is. . Lol

Shinobiwan
14-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Another render, this time not CNC related.

One day this might get made on the CNC!

petesos
02-09-2012, 12:03 AM
Sigh why are things never as simple as they should be.

Had it up and running with mach doing some jogging about and it jerks around like a jack hammer on the Y and Z stalls all the time even with low speed/accel. The software from Leadshine doesn't work for me either and throws up errors then crashes when reading or writing data to the drives.

Why didn't I spend the money on a nice long holiday instead!
Well Bud I am nearly smashed out of my face drinking Jack Daniels and on my third box of kleenex reading all the posts regarding StrikeCNC and I asked myself that very question....why didnt I spend the money on a nice holiday .
Still look on the bright side at least you have your machine All I have is a few texts and they cost me over £5000
Pete

JAZZCNC
02-09-2012, 04:55 PM
Still look on the bright side at least you have your machine All I have is a few texts and they cost me over £5000
Pete

Yes but he still doesn't have a working machine and the very short time it did work then it was completely useless. . . SO My very strong advice having dealt with Ant's machine is to get your money back "DONT TAKE DELIVERY". it can only get worse.!

It's your statutory rights to change your mind and ask for the money back and because they have taken so long with delivery then I suspect they have broken the agreement so will have to return any deposit. I'm no expert so check it out but think they won't a have a leg to stand upon.? ( He certainly wouldn't have working one if it was my money.!!)

This base machine(Not with enclosure) can easily be built for around 2K by anyone with half decent skills. Like I said at the beginning this machine can be made with just a decent drill press and basic hand tools. Yes it could be made far better with milling machine or another cnc machine and is were I'm helping Ant but the actual machine your buying can easily be made with drill press and hand tools.!

petesos
02-09-2012, 05:28 PM
Yes but he still doesn't have a working machine and the very short time it did work then it was completely useless. . . SO My very strong advice having dealt with Ant's machine is to get your money back "DONT TAKE DELIVERY". it can only get worse.!

It's your statutory rights to change your mind and ask for the money back and because they have taken so long with delivery then I suspect they have broken the agreement so will have to return any deposit. I'm no expert so check it out but think they won't a have a leg to stand upon.? ( He certainly wouldn't have working one if it was my money.!!)

This base machine(Not with enclosure) can easily be built for around 2K by anyone with half decent skills. Like I said at the beginning this machine can be made with just a decent drill press and basic hand tools. Yes it could be made far better with milling machine or another cnc machine and is were I'm helping Ant but the actual machine your buying can easily be made with drill press and hand tools.!

Hi Bud
I have given this cretin enough time and now I am just waiting for the 7 day warning letter period to expire and then its off to court with this parasite, I need people to come forward and let me know if they want there cases brought up at court as I think there is a case for HSE here to be informed Does that man not understand he could have killed someone with that shody wiring I read about in one of the Posts on this forum.
But like I said I am taking him to court when the warning letter expires (Tuesday) If anyone wants there day with this Parasite let me know
Petesos

JAZZCNC
02-09-2012, 05:42 PM
as I think there is a case for HSE here to be informed Does that man not understand he could have killed someone with that shody wiring I read about in one of the Posts on this forum.

It was mains live so Certainly wouldn't have just tickled that's for sure.!!

Hope things workout ok.!

wkt
03-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Hi Bud
I have given this cretin enough time and now I am just waiting for the 7 day warning letter period to expire and then its off to court with this parasite, I need people to come forward and let me know if they want there cases brought up at court as I think there is a case for HSE here to be informed Does that man not understand he could have killed someone with that shody wiring I read about in one of the Posts on this forum.
But like I said I am taking him to court when the warning letter expires (Tuesday) If anyone wants there day with this Parasite let me know
Petesos

Hello Petesos,

Here another strike customer. I want to send you a pm but i can't figure out how to do this. Can you contact me?

Shinobiwan
03-09-2012, 10:57 AM
Oh dear...

I'm in contact with 5 people not including myself who have had a bad experience with Strike CNC. Pete in particular I feel bad for as he paid his money and hasn't seen anything since.

wkt
03-09-2012, 11:06 AM
Oh dear...

I'm in contact with 5 people not including myself who have had a bad experience with Strike CNC. Pete in particular I feel bad for as he paid his money and hasn't seen anything since.

My story is the same, i paid 4 months ago for the machine but i'm still waiting.

AJW
07-09-2012, 12:26 AM
Hi Everyone
Interesting thread, I too was suckered into buying a Strike CNC Router. I've had numerous issues with the build quality and the machine in general. Latest state of play is that it's now become an expensive table.
Bearings have fallen apart on the x axis, obviously it's my fault!! Well that's what Mike says.
Does anyone know what has happened to Mike? I do, he's now working full time for another company as he wants to be able to get a mortgage. Do I care, no I don't, maybe he would like to fix my machine so that I can continue paying my mortgage!
I was offered a new machine some months ago but this never materialised. Mike and his "i've got a bad attitude" side kick came to my premises to fix the problems that I first had within a couple of weeks of taking delivery of my machine. He has since told me that he should of charged me £35.00 per hour/per person and a call out fee of £70.00, so much for a warranty. Perhaps I should send him an Invoice for the loss of earnings from not being able to use the machine.
Mike did tell me recently via email that somebody called Steve is considering taking over Strike CNC Routers and that he is tying up some loose ends for him as he no longer works at Strike CNC Routers.
I have asked for Steves telephone number so that I can discuss the issues/problems with him, but Mike has failed to let me have this information.

In conclusion it appears that we have all been made to pay vast sums of money for poor workmanship and a warranty that is worthless.
If there are at least six of us all paying an average of £4000 for these machines Mike's on his way to having a good start for his mortgage deposit.

I would be happy to have my day in court with him but if he has nothing then all we would get at the end of it is a piece of paper saying as much.

Shinobiwan
07-09-2012, 01:14 AM
Hi Everyone
Interesting thread, I too was suckered into buying a Strike CNC Router. I've had numerous issues with the build quality and the machine in general. Latest state of play is that it's now become an expensive table.
Bearings have fallen apart on the x axis, obviously it's my fault!! Well that's what Mike says.
Does anyone know what has happened to Mike? I do, he's now working full time for another company as he wants to be able to get a mortgage. Do I care, no I don't, maybe he would like to fix my machine so that I can continue paying my mortgage!
I was offered a new machine some months ago but this never materialised. Mike and his "i've got a bad attitude" side kick came to my premises to fix the problems that I first had within a couple of weeks of taking delivery of my machine. He has since told me that he should of charged me £35.00 per hour/per person and a call out fee of £70.00, so much for a warranty. Perhaps I should send him an Invoice for the loss of earnings from not being able to use the machine.
Mike did tell me recently via email that somebody called Steve is considering taking over Strike CNC Routers and that he is tying up some loose ends for him as he no longer works at Strike CNC Routers.
I have asked for Steves telephone number so that I can discuss the issues/problems with him, but Mike has failed to let me have this information.

In conclusion it appears that we have all been made to pay vast sums of money for poor workmanship and a warranty that is worthless.
If there are at least six of us all paying an average of £4000 for these machines Mike's on his way to having a good start for his mortgage deposit.

I would be happy to have my day in court with him but if he has nothing then all we would get at the end of it is a piece of paper saying as much.

Well that sucks! Did any Strike customer end up happy with their purchase? I've not met one yet. We should form a self help group for victims of Mike and the rubbish he sold us!

Oh and as for court action, he'll be in trouble regarding the two people who he's effectively stolen around £11500 from. His company hasn't gone into receivership and nor has he personally been made bankrupt so without any clear signs of financial difficulty and him indicating as such then he should have returned their money when he decided to do the world a favour and change his career. What a low life, playing games with others money and livelihoods.

As for his talk of leaving the company and trying to make out he was only part of the problem. Load of rubbish! I went down there twice, rang them up many time and I only ever saw or spoke to Mike, he was the company. And why the hell would Steve want to take on all us angry customers and a company name that's now in the mud? To be perfectly honest I expect Steve is a figment of Mikes imagination and another smoke screen.

As far as I'm concerned, the company is dead, the guy who ran it is dishonest and anyone owed money or parts should get to the small claims court ASAP.

Jonathan
07-09-2012, 01:39 AM
Latest state of play is that it's now become an expensive table.


I thought it was an expensive machine to start with, let alone after you've fixed all the 'features'.[/QUOTE]



Bearings have fallen apart on the x axis, obviously it's my fault!! Well that's what Mike says.


Have you taken the bearings out of the mounts? If so you should check if they are standard deep groove bearings (e.g. 6201) or the right type, which is a pair of angular contact bearings (e.g. 7201). Earlier in the thread it became apparent that they used the wrong type of bearings, which is unbelievable as it's such a basic easy thing to find out and not even expensive to do right. If you did take him to court then I think this is a good example of supplying a part which is not fit for purpose, since because they do not tolerate significant axial forces, deep groove bearings would last a few months at best before failure. This is common knowledge. Similarly there are numerous basic design flaws or examples of mismatched components, which could help the court case if listed?



Perhaps I should send him an Invoice for the loss of earnings from not being able to use the machine.


I had a tour round quite a big factory recently and they said their contracts with some of their suppliers state that they can charge something like £60k per hour if the supplier fails to deliver and stops the production line!


As far as I'm concerned, the company is dead

The problem is it's so easy for him to put claims on his website such as 'it is a very rigid CNC' router, when to anyone who has read about it, it's clearly not. On the plus side their website is so terrible (no images, all text) that this thread is the first result on google if you search the company name, so hopefully that will change things.

John S
07-09-2012, 10:40 AM
Well that sucks! Did any Strike customer end up happy with their purchase? I've not met one yet. We should form a self help group for victims of Mike and the rubbish he sold us!

Oh and as for court action, he'll be in trouble regarding the two people who he's effectively stolen around £11500 from. His company hasn't gone into receivership and nor has he personally been made bankrupt so without any clear signs of financial difficulty and him indicating as such then he should have returned their money when he decided to do the world a favour and change his career. What a low life, playing games with others money and livelihoods.



For the people owed money and no goods forget solicitors, small claims at this point.

Get the police involved.

This is a crime, it's theft, not some silly squabble and a crime has been committed.
Report it at your local station and present documentation that there are others.
Best bet would be for the parties concerned to approach the police in Strikes area so they are dealing direct.

If it proveable they have the right to sieze property to make good any debts.

petesos
07-09-2012, 10:41 AM
Hi Guys
One or two on this forum would know the grief and the shit that I have had with strike and just to update you about strikecnc. I had agreed to collect my machine yesterday evening at 7.00pm . And after he didnt even turn up I then went to his home address and after a few moments (half an hour) The cul-de-sac he lives in suddenly resembled a war zone with Police turning up from everywhere. I can not tell you any more at this point as there are a few other factors at play just now .
The idea of everyone who has been affected by Strikecnc and has lost money to come together and get this Parasite and his company in to court
Will keep you updated
petesos

petesos
07-09-2012, 10:44 AM
Police are now involved after last night.
Anyone who has any dealings with strike cnc and are out of Pocket Please Please PM me your claims against Strike ASAP


For the people owed money and no goods forget solicitors, small claims at this point.

Get the police involved.

This is a crime, it's theft, not some silly squabble and a crime has been committed.
Report it at your local station and present documentation that there are others.
Best bet would be for the parties concerned to approach the police in Strikes area so they are dealing direct.

If it proveable they have the right to sieze property to make good any debts.

Shinobiwan
07-09-2012, 07:49 PM
To get this thread back on track here's a pic of what I'll be cutting with the machine :fat:

motoxy
07-09-2012, 07:58 PM
I just feel that I have to say that I am stunned at the response to this thread. I bet we have all bought something or wanted to buy it and sung its virtues only to find that it really was a heap of junk...Austin Princess comes to mind. The only bad guy here is strike. You just have to feel sorry for those who have parted with money and got nothing.

Nice cabs btw.

bruce

Shinobiwan
07-09-2012, 08:04 PM
Thanks Motoxy.

Give it a couple of months and I should be cranking those out with the CNC which was the point all along.

strikeout
12-09-2012, 09:21 PM
Hi petesos, I feel I may be another victim of strike cnc! Ive just joined to reply to find out some more info, I can't work out how to pm you.... Maybe you could pm me? Cheers


Police are now involved after last night.
Anyone who has any dealings with strike cnc and are out of Pocket Please Please PM me your claims against Strike ASAP

Jonathan
12-09-2012, 09:39 PM
[TABLE="width: 500"]Hi petesos, I feel I may be another victim of strike cnc! Ive just joined to reply to find out some more info, I can't work out how to pm you.... Maybe you could pm me? CheersYou might find this thread helpful:http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/questions-problems/5038-how-do-i-send-pm.htmlAlthough probably the problem is since you've only made one post the system does not allow you to send or receive PMs yet. Will try and change that for you.

irving2008
12-09-2012, 09:39 PM
Hi strikeout, as a newbie and until your first post is moderated and approved you do not get PM capability. You should be able to PM petesos now... and welcome...

Jonathan
12-09-2012, 09:42 PM
Hi strikeout, as a newbie and until your first post is moderated and approved you do not get PM capability.

Interestingly I don't have the option to send a PM to strikeout either, not that I need to - it's just a bit odd?

John S
12-09-2012, 09:53 PM
Staff Edit: Comment removed as per the forum rules.

What you should NOT do:

6. Create threads and/or posts deemed to be soliciting any kind of harassment, discrimination, flaming, trolling and/or behaviour considered by the site staff as intentionally abusive or inappropriate. Such content will be removed from public viewing.

strikeout
12-09-2012, 10:53 PM
Thanks guys I've been able to send a PM! Many thanks

m.marino
12-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Folks any news on how things have turned out? Have folks been able to get machines built? If not I have the price list for Item Profile and If folks wanted to put together a group effort on what they want and order I am sure there might be a few of us that could help in the building of them at probably a reasonable price for the quality you would get.

Michael

petesos
12-10-2012, 11:18 PM
Folks any news on how things have turned out? Have folks been able to get machines built? If not I have the price list for Item Profile and If folks wanted to put together a group effort on what they want and order I am sure there might be a few of us that could help in the building of them at probably a reasonable price for the quality you would get.

Michael

Hi All
Am Just out of rehab and recovering from the Prolonged effects of Jack Daniels over this whole issue....A few problems still to overcome like talking to myself and Biting the legs of the machine..............BUT help is at hand and hopefully will post some photos of it all .......( if the wife will remove the handcuffs )
Pete

petesos
14-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Hi To All
Just an update on the company Strike cnc.
If anyone has had a machine from them and like me ...Been ripped off and wants Justice then Please contact the Person below........... Trading Standards

Paul.LOVERIDGE@gloucestershire.gov.uk

Pete

Strugglingcnc
19-10-2012, 03:50 PM
Hi all, am new to this and was looking for a small cnc unit. Saw one on eBay as a private sale and - very stupidly- paid a significant amount of cash outside of eBay expecting delivery in a week. 4 weeks later no delivery and, by means of some detective work found that it was Strike CNC using another eBay account.
Of course, no Strike phone numbers now work..


Has anyone any joy with legals?
My machine was apparently in the loading bay at the Strike unit but 'disappeared' on Monday before I could collect. Anyone seen a 3 axis- about 500x750 bed?


Just wish I had seen your posts first but of course it didn't appear as a Strike CNC purchase at the time.

martin54
19-10-2012, 07:03 PM
There's a link to trading standards on this thread so best to contact them for anything legal to do with this company.
Never understand why people part with money outside of paypal. If its a lot & seller is trying to avoid fees then go see them cash in sweaty little mit until you have seen it & your happy.

Robin Hewitt
19-10-2012, 10:46 PM
If they have feedback worth caring about, see if they are listing something cheap.

petesos
20-10-2012, 12:01 AM
Hi All
I see this thread has come on a bit since I posted and I see there are a few more victims of Strike cnc and my advice to anyone who has a problem with strikecnc is to read this thread from start to finish and contact the victims and then as a group contact Trading Standards ( I have posted the link on this thread ) Please do not involve me as I have washed my hands of Strike cnc and cut my losses,,,,,(and there are a lot of them in lost orders and money.)
But only as a group will you make things happen.
And the lucky ones who have a machine of sorts or part of a machine then there are good willed and kind folk on this website who will help you as they have helped me.
Thank you Jonathan......Thank You

Pete

Shinobiwan
10-12-2012, 12:20 PM
Did everyone get their money back or a machine from Strike in the end?

petesos
10-12-2012, 08:36 PM
Did everyone get their money back or a machine from Strike in the end?
Hi Bud
I know of a few that didnt get anything and lost a load of money at the hands of this skumbag.
He sent the Police round to my place accusing me of stealing one of his machines from his workshop and after a few hours in the Police station explaining that I knew nothing about the missing CNC........ I skipped all the way to my car HAPPY in the knowledge that someone had got one over on this Fraudster .
After totally rebuilding the machine I bought from him I am now up and running and starting to make some money at last.
Pete

Fivetide
10-12-2012, 10:16 PM
What about a small claims court action? Its £50 and I think if you start a thread the others may chip in and you can bring it in as a class action on behalf of the others. There’s plenty of evidence here and you will probably find others, also let EBay know what you are doing and give them the small claims number and they have to, by law suspend them trading on their site pending the outcome.
I did it with a garage that sold me a wrong un, I got my claim money back but nothing else but they closed the company.. a little revenge I think.

Shinobiwan
11-12-2012, 12:50 PM
Hi Bud
I know of a few that didnt get anything and lost a load of money at the hands of this skumbag.
He sent the Police round to my place accusing me of stealing one of his machines from his workshop and after a few hours in the Police station explaining that I knew nothing about the missing CNC........ I skipped all the way to my car HAPPY in the knowledge that someone had got one over on this Fraudster .
After totally rebuilding the machine I bought from him I am now up and running and starting to make some money at last.
Pete

Someone stole one of his machines? Isn't that a bit like raiding a public toilet for floaters? Haha

Whilst I don't agree with stealing at all, in this case I'd like to make an exception and shake the hand of the guy that did that. Its probably the only justice we'll see out of all this.

Now to make my life complete here's hoping he falls down a long flight of stairs!

Ricardoco
11-12-2012, 05:21 PM
Oh Argh Oh ah self control as never been my strong point but the medication must be working because I'm resisting.!!!!! . .:whistling:

When the urge gets too much I just think back to all those 100000's of lines the teacher gave me.??

Casper . . Write 1000's times. . . " I Must learn to keep my mouth shut". . :joker:
Jazz.. I hope you never learn to keep your mouth shut. Ive read this thread and Im gutted for those people like Ant who have had such a bad time with this shiester. But i must say that is why your input into this forum is so important, "you say it like you see it" and i for 1 am greatfull for your wisdom as im sure many others are.
I got to imagine what the inside of HMP would look like as thats where i would have ended up if it were me, not that that would matter as the club would have sorted the rest out in my absence.

JAZZ please Keep your opinions comming and if it offends people then they can ignor your comments. I have to say I am so sorry for those people who have shelled out and ended up with nothing. but I personaly thank them for sharing the experience they have had at the hands of "STRIKECNC" as their experiences will make sure this guy and others like him will not trade for long... VIVA the internet, VIVA the forum, and VIVA members like JAZZ, who help in more ways than they Know.

Rick

martin54
11-12-2012, 05:35 PM
From what I have read on this thread I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone would steal one of his machines, isn't that just inflicting more pain on yourself ??
Unfortunately people like this often get away with it, seen the same sort of thing in different industries where they don't lose anything personally & just start up again with a different name, doesn't help those that have lost money but if your spending that sort of money on machinery then go & visit the company before parting with any cash & make sure you do your research properly. Having been bitten ( very very big style) 10 years or so ago I'm a lot more careful what I do with my cash & if a deal looks to good to be true then best advice would be to give it a very wide berth.

Shinobiwan
11-12-2012, 05:37 PM
Couldn't agree more Rick

Dean has been just about the only thing that's stopped me giving up completely on my machine. His honesty and style is possibly abrasive to some but personally I find it refreshing. I can understand and respect that. He's got a knack for making the complicated simple and that's a gift. Only wish I'd known him before I'd made a purchase!

Ricardoco
11-12-2012, 05:45 PM
From what I have read on this thread I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone would steal one of his machines, isn't that just inflicting more pain on yourself ??
Unfortunately people like this often get away with it, seen the same sort of thing in different industries where they don't lose anything personally & just start up again with a different name, doesn't help those that have lost money but if your spending that sort of money on machinery then go & visit the company before parting with any cash & make sure you do your research properly. Having been bitten ( very very big style) 10 years or so ago I'm a lot more careful what I do with my cash & if a deal looks to good to be true then best advice would be to give it a very wide berth. The thing that started the alarm bells ringing with me is that, Jazz took one look at it and then reeled of a lengthy list of downfalls, not all cost controlled. If a company is being run to provide for this demand then you would think they would have seen these downfalls in the design stage, and rectified them, Unless they were out for a quick buck that is.. Bloody JAZZ can see it a mile off and points it out (thankfully) to ignoramuses like me.. (Maybe that pic of the GD is really JAZZ!! the sniffer..LMAO)


Rick

Shinobiwan
11-12-2012, 05:45 PM
From what I have read on this thread I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone would steal one of his machines, isn't that just inflicting more pain on yourself ??
Unfortunately people like this often get away with it, seen the same sort of thing in different industries where they don't lose anything personally & just start up again with a different name, doesn't help those that have lost money but if your spending that sort of money on machinery then go & visit the company before parting with any cash & make sure you do your research properly. Having been bitten ( very very big style) 10 years or so ago I'm a lot more careful what I do with my cash & if a deal looks to good to be true then best advice would be to give it a very wide berth.

These weren't exactly a bargain price, not to the extent where you'd smell a rat. And many of us did visit his workshop and demo. OK the machine design could have been better but still serviceable, however unless you know in depth about such things you wouldn't have thought much less of the machines. Most of the CNC buying public don't give a damn about how they work, they only want to know if it will do what they have in mind.

Top and bottom. The UK sucks for reasonably priced machines for the DIY, hobby and small commercial sector. Limited choice means you either have to lock yourself in a darkened room for months brewing your own or you take your pick out of a bunch of bad to average machines! That's the truth. Folks like Michael make things that bit worse too.

I keep badgering Jazz to start selling machines. I'd be first in line I tell ya!

Ricardoco
11-12-2012, 05:48 PM
Couldn't agree more Rick

Dean has been just about the only thing that's stopped me giving up completely on my machine. His honesty and style is possibly abrasive to some but personally I find it refreshing. I can understand and respect that. He's got a knack for making the complicated simple and that's a gift. Only wish I'd known him before I'd made a purchase!
Yup.. i suspect his name is on a lot more Xmas lists than shit lists, although i suspect the shit list is a little long LOL.. Maybe a pole should be the way to go .... or not...LOL

Rick

Fivetide
11-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Jazz is a result of some fool giving Yorkshire electricity, I argued till I was blue in the face that it would be like giving Iranianís nukes, no good will come of it, they are far better off in the dark / ages! But did they listen ? Noooo, now we have Yorkshire wisdom delivered in a nonsense way. Lol !! :joker:

Jazz has helped me out lots of times, I find his attitude refreshing. I have no doubt its alienated me to others on the forums that I take his side on many issues, but hey this isnít a democracy.. oh and by the way if anyone knows of a democracy still in existence please let me know Iíd love to see one in action.


I wish I had found this forum before I bought the CNC , I may have not bought what I did, but there is a consolation I paid so little for it that as Irving pointed out the whole is worth more than the price and could be adapted or re jigged later, when I have some money. :lemo:

JAZZCNC
11-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Jazz is a result of some fool giving Yorkshire electricity, I argued till I was blue in the face that it would be like giving Iranianís nukes, no good will come of it, they are far better off in the dark / ages! But did they listen ? Noooo, now we have Yorkshire wisdom delivered in a nonsense way. Lol !! :joker:

Only a Lancastrian could come up with that . . Lmao . . . And anyway I'd still have a working CNC machine without electrickery I'd just have more kids and make it treadle powered.:eagerness:

Shinobiwan
11-12-2012, 07:12 PM
This is turning into a bit of a Jazz worship thread and I don't agree with that.

He won't be able to fit his ugly mug through his workshop door if it carries on :smug:

... there I have brought some balance to this thread now.

JAZZCNC
11-12-2012, 07:39 PM
This is turning into a bit of a Jazz worship thread and I don't agree with that.

He won't be able to fit his ugly mug through his workshop door if it carries on :smug:

... there I have brought some balance to this thread now.

Thanks Ant for keeping me grounded and must say was starting to feel a bit nauseous from all the sucking up.!!. . . . . What ya after ye sneaky B@&~trds. . Lmao

Fivetide
11-12-2012, 09:47 PM
Thanks for the plans you sent Jazz heres a picture of the completed project..

7589

Robin Hewitt
11-12-2012, 09:56 PM
Thanks for the plans you sent Jazz heres a picture of the completed project..

Having made it you are now supposed to ask us if it wil cut aluminium :hysterical:

njhussey
11-12-2012, 10:24 PM
Anyone fancy a CNC Router....was just browsing the bay and stumbled upon this.....

7590

JAZZCNC
11-12-2012, 10:55 PM
Thanks for the plans you sent Jazz heres a picture of the completed project..

7589


No no no far to many yellow bricks and not enough red ones.!! . . . . You'll never cut Aluminium with yellow bricks.!!

GEOFFREY
12-12-2012, 12:20 AM
I want one, (i'm very coveteous).

audioandy
12-12-2012, 12:55 AM
Stop blowing smoke up Jazz's arse, you will make his head even bigger and heaven forbid with a bigger head a bigger mouth!

Shinobiwan
12-12-2012, 01:03 AM
Anyone fancy a CNC Router....was just browsing the bay and stumbled upon this.....

7590

Does the ad read:

Good condition. Slightly more accurate than an Etch-a-sketch. Few scuff marks done by me trying to run with it to the back of my van for a swift get away. Two, not so honest, previous owners! Absolutely no returns or warranty offered, I'm moving out the country as soon as the cheque clears!

njhussey
12-12-2012, 01:18 AM
Here is the ad...

CNC woodworking router

http://bit.ly/S7c9lN

GEOFFREY
12-12-2012, 01:24 AM
Sorry mate,no checks

Shinobiwan
12-12-2012, 02:10 AM
Sorry mate,no checks

Western Union money transfer? haha

njhussey
12-12-2012, 09:10 AM
Sorry....got to be cash and meet in a dark corner at the motorway services :)

Lee Roberts
12-12-2012, 09:24 AM
No no no far to many yellow bricks and not enough red ones.!! . . . . You'll never cut Aluminium with yellow bricks.!!

LMAO :eagerness:

ukracer
17-12-2012, 04:19 AM
Here is the ad...

CNC woodworking router

http://bit.ly/S7c9lN

It sold for £3100.......wonder if its been modded??

petesos
17-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Builder forgot to add that there is FREE tea and Coffee at the local Police station with every machine:whistle::whistle::whistle:
Petesos

Jonathan
17-12-2012, 01:44 PM
So only one axis that looks close to being well made and it sells for £3100, how depressing when it says Strike CNC in the listing, so it could not be easier to find this thread (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=strike+CNC&l=1).

If there's a gap between me graduating and starting a job I know what I'll be doing next...


No no no far to many yellow bricks and not enough red ones.!! . . . . You'll never cut Aluminium with yellow bricks.!!

The transparent bricks clearly make up for that, so I'm sure it would cut aluminium.

martin54
17-12-2012, 01:55 PM
You have to remember that people are not always savy & don't always check sites like this, in fact a lot of people probably find this forum when it's to late & they are searching for a solution to a problem. This machine was being sold by people who said they had been using it to produce work, if you know nothing about cnc machines it looks from first glance like a decent machine & if the seller says that it works well then that is often enough for people to bid. If you have looked at the price of commercial machines then you will be expecting to pay a bit for a fully working system & it only takes a few people to push the price up way above what some would pay. There was another machine sold a couple of days ago for what I thought was way over the top. As with other industries there are to many people about who think they can make huge amounts of money by buying some equipment.