View Full Version : Electrical whizz needed :)
11-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Not sure if this is the right section, so will explain as best I can.
I was using my router over the weekend, and noticed at the last moment I didn't set the position right so hit the emergency stop button and it all stopped but then when I restarted it the motors now don't work.
I didn't build it, I bought it because the wiring was beyond me, and have been in contact with the firm but thought while I was waiting for him to get back to me I would try here, as the guy I spoke to just doesn't inspire confidence in me.
So to help explain I have attached two pictures one of the main wiring box, and the other is the dsp pendant that works it.
Now when you switch it on there is a clunk from inside which is the main relay switching on, (that's the tall black thing just in front of the little clear square thing) but there used to be a second clunk type noise as the motors engaged, which no longer happens. Apart from the motors everything else works. Once on the pendant displays 'go to home' and when you press a button it starts counting as it normally does, which to me indicates that it works fine and thinks the motors are now moving the carriageways to the home positions but there not. Power wise the large silver box at the back that supplies power to the axis controllers has power going in and coming out, so not knowing a huge amount about these things I came to the conclusion it could be a problem with the controller card, because the pendant seems to be sending the info to it, but it's not getting to the axis controllers, and while it could be the axis controllers, I thought the chances of them all going wrong at the same time is minimal.
But as I said wiring this sort of thing is not my strong point, so any suggestions would be much appreciated.
11-04-2012, 01:44 PM
From the control box picture the top right are the main stepper motor drives, they look something like the 542 or 752.
If so then it looks like only the step and direction are connected, and the enable pins are not being used, meaning that the drivers are enabled as soon as power is applied
You say that the silver power supply has power going in and out.
What voltages are you seeing at the silver power supply, You should see your MAINS 230VAC in, and anything upto 75VDC out, depending on the power supply and drivers being used.
Are any of the LED lit on the drivers?
11-04-2012, 02:55 PM
Just a quick thought -- you have reset the emergency stop button!!
EStop is a good one to check as are the LEDs and actual voltages. Also check all limit and home switches.
It would be unlucky to have blown all four drivers but the lack of a second clunk does sound like a fundamental problem. I assume you have a multi meter? Set it to DC volts, 10v or 20v range if applicable and measure the voltage across the STEP inputs on the X axis driver, right up at the green connectors. It may read 0V or xxV (near 5V most likely), now with your other pair of hands use the pendant to jog along the X axis and see if the meter reading changes. Any change in voltage associated with the movement tells you that the step control signals are getting as far as the driver, no change in voltage tells you that the problem exists before the driver.
12-04-2012, 11:23 AM
Mad Prof. :)
I am borrowing a mulit meter later today to see what power is coming out the silver power box. All I have is a test screwdriver which glows if there is power, and that glows when touched on the power in and out terminals, but not sure how accurate that is. As for the step and direction thingies, I guess so because normally once you turn it on, I have been told it's a called a contactor (black thing at the front behind the smaller clear relay) clunks and turns everything on the motors also clunk and its ready to go. As for the drivers they have a red and green led on the left hand side but neither is on.
Yes but unlike most of the emergency stops on my older machines which just press to stop these stay closed until you turn them, then they Pop out again.
Ecat J :) As mentioned I will get my hands on a proper tester later today so will check the voltages then. As for the stops etc it stopped in the centre of the bed, so if nothing else I would have thought the z axis would have worked. Once I get a multi meter I will check the movement ect.
So far the reply from the firm they have come up with three things. Well the first was check the fuses, which I had already done. Next they said check the contactor to make sure it wasn't sticking open, but didn't say how. I watched with the front open when I switched it on and something inside moved down as it clunked, but I don't know if that means it working or not. There other thought was the main power supply, but didn't say anything more, but thanks to people on here I will check the input and output voltages later.
13-04-2012, 11:56 AM
So there are two power leads that feed the main box. One seems to power just the pendant, which works fine, while the other powers the rest of it which doesn't. However the power doesn't seem to go past the contactor or smaller clear relay, and while I have checked for voltage at the silver power box and other points nothing is getting there. I have also circuit tested from the wall plug to the contactor and clear relay and the circuit is complete just the power stops at the said points, so I am guessing it's a fault with either or both of those.
It sounds like the contactor and relay aren't getting activated.
Can you trace the wiring, to see what the relay and contactor coils are connected to?
I'd guess they're somehow connected to the E-stop circuit, but it's just a case of following wires until you find where they should be getting power from to confirm.
13-04-2012, 12:49 PM
Don, can you post a photo looking down into the control box showing the top down view of the relay, contactor and the power supply. Also what is on the front panel of the control box? It looks like you have some of the wiring from the relay and contactor going there.
Another tip is to throw away your neon screwdriver and get a decent test meter. Neon screwdrivers are at best un-reliable, dont trust your life with it.
15-04-2012, 07:42 PM
I've been away for the weekend so hopefully will trace the wiring on Monday if I get a chance, and have also spoken to a legal chum of mine who gave me instructions on what to write to the firm to find out in terms of what they're going to do and when they're going to do it, and pending their reply to what he suggests I do next. Everyone here has been far more helpful that the guy who owns the company, but being not quite six months old it's still down to him to fix, so I can look and test but not touch anything or I void the warranty.
So wiring on the front panel is the main power switch, e-stop a second switch which manually turns on the water cooling system which normally comes on automatically when the spindle comes on, and the control panel to manually adjust the spindle speed as it's powered off an inverter.
I'll try and test them tomorrow and see how I get on, and will charge up my old camera and try and take a top down pic, as my current one won't fit in or focus at that distance.
15-04-2012, 09:22 PM
hopefully the photo will let us see where the coil connections are going to get an idea of whats happening. I just noticed the power cube driving the cooling fan, classic. You might want to make that one of your first modifications when everything is working correctly.
15-04-2012, 11:06 PM
Is this a UK company that has supplied the machine?
I'm just curious no other reason!
16-04-2012, 04:04 PM
I take it the power cube is the plug in transformer and what I thought looked a bit botched too. I also thought it was odd the fan in the top blows air in, and the exit on the front has a filter over it trapping the dust inside, where I would have thought the fan on top would have sucked the air out the hottest area and to avoid clogging up the inside the air would have been drawn through the filter, but for now its still under warrenty so it will stay as it is.
On a good note my legal chums advice seemed to work as this morning they said they could send me the part which they think is the power supply and I can install it, or send it back and they would fix it. Not being great at electronics and was told by my legal chum not to touch it as if that isn't the problem they can then blame me if anything else is wrong saying I messed up, so the box is now boxed up very well and ready to go.
I couldn't take a picture of inside as my old camera wouldn't fit in the gap and focus at the close range :(
As for company yes it is a UK based company that make them rather than import them, and from an actual build point of view the router itself is incredibly solid, but I've had a few niggles, just daft things they seem to have overlooked, but will reserve my judgement until after its fixed, as so far it's been brilliant in doing what it does, and I lvoe it to bits.
Many thanks for all your help and I will post what was wrong when fixed.
16-04-2012, 09:09 PM
Yep the power cube is the plug in tranny. You are correct in saying that the fan should be extracting the hot air from the top of the enclosure.
Let us know how you get on.
01-05-2012, 10:27 PM
Sorry for taking so long to get back, but have been silly busy with work.
Anyway the problem turned out as the guy said to be an internal fuse in the power supply, which was the larger silver box at the back, so they fixed that, but I thought kind of silly of a manufacture to put a fuse internally where it can't easily be reached if it should blow. They also turned the fan around so now it sucks in air via the filter and blows it out the top, but once back working I found my tool height sensor no longer works. Its not the sensor itself on the pendant you push menu then the on/off button and it start a sequence that moves the x axis down to set the tool height but when I hit those buttons nothing happens. The guy so far hasn't got back, but says they are on two separate power systems so wouldn't be connected, but seems very coincidental to me that something blows and something then doesn't work, so will wait and see what he says.
Thanks again for everyones help.
02-05-2012, 07:32 AM
Strange for the internal fuse in the psu to blow. Most decent psu's have short circuit and overload protection to prevent damage so shouldnt blow the fuse.
Keep us updated on your progress.
06-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Sorry for the long delay, but the company said to reinstall the pendant software to cure the tool height setter not working so not being too good at stuff like that, I left it until I had done all the jobs needed, (just in case I buggered it up) and reinstalled it as per the manual and it still did the same, as in your press the two buttons to start the automatic tool height setting and as before it jumps straight to the end without moving. However someone local who works with a cnc router said he didn't think it was a software problem as the pendant works fine with everything else, and the pendant thinks it's set the tool height when activated, so he thought it could be either a duff cable which for some unknown reason has shorted out (bearing in mind we still don't know what caused it to blow the power supply in the first place) and is sending a false signal to the tool height setter so it thinks it's set the height or a controller card problem.
So I contact the company to find out what the cable was as I can get one locally then take it back if it's not that before getting onto the controller card, but it seems the company is happy to sell you stuff, but when it comes to problems well it took them days to get back to me each time when I rung or e-mailed about the loss of power problem more times than not they never got back, and I had to re-contact them for an answer and now I don't even get a reply, to e-mails or when I ring get told he is not available.
So if anyone reads this that has the same controller pendant thingy as shown on the first page, if you know what the cable is that connects it up I would be grateful if you could let me know. It's going to be scsi or parallel, and did take it into the local pc world but the guy in there was clearly not on the same planet as the rest of us and just shrugged.
I have googled it but can't seem to find any mention of the cable used, and a chum said he thought it was a scsi cable, but wasn't sure. I cna post pics of the ends if that will help.
06-06-2012, 05:41 PM
Yep post pics. Also of the THS it's self if possible.
I don't think it will be the pendent or the cable it will be the tool height setter thats sending the signal to ground so the controller thinks it's finished.? The pendent just tells the controller to activate the THS routine the controller then monitors the input that the THS is set too. Really the controller should check to see if the input is already high and give an error message saying so.!!
I would check the THS cable and the assembly it's self to see if any metal has got stuck between the pad and the body.? This would send it to ground.
06-06-2012, 10:34 PM
You may find they won't talk to you because they don't know how to fix it!
Hopefully between the forum members we can get you up and running.
08-06-2012, 07:24 PM
I'll take a pic of the tool height setter tomorrow and check those other suggestions, but wondered if I touched the two plug terminals of the THS with a circuit tester and apply pressure to the pad would that make or break the circuit and tell me if it works or not??
As for your suggestion Andy, I got the impression when it first blew a fuse the guy that runs, owns the company only has limited knowledge and employs an electrician to do the wiring, but you can never speak to him, it's always relay the info through the boss bloke, where it would be much easier to just speak to the electrical guy and explain it direct and get a direct answer back.
08-06-2012, 07:49 PM
I'll take a pic of the tool height setter tomorrow and check those other suggestions, but wondered if I touched the two plug terminals of the THS with a circuit tester and apply pressure to the pad would that make or break the circuit and tell me if it works or not??Don
First unplug the THS.
Now basicly you want to be able to short the 2 wires of the socket leading to the control box NOT the THS. This can be done by bareing the ends of a short length of wire, attach one end of wire to 1 pin, any it doesn't matter which, while leaving the other unattached.!
Now push the button to set tool height on the pendent and it should start to work like it was going to set the tool height.! Before the Tool actually reaches the tool height setter pad short the other end of the wire to the other pin. This will send the signal to the control just like the THS would.
If this works like I've just described then it's the THS thats faulty or has a broken wire. If nothng happens when THS disconnected then it will need further investigation.
Other things it could be are:
The remaining wire to control box is broken.
Faulty or damaged input on the break out board.
Pendent faulty (Should be able to confirm by manualy activate THS setting routine by issueing a M code starting the THS macro, obviously will need to know the macro code to do this.!)
EDIT: There is a quick way to tell if the THS setters broke and partly verify software/pendent is ok without shorting wire.? . . . . Unplug THS then push pendent button if the machine starts the routine like normal the hit the ESTOP before it hits anything.
18-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Sorry for taking so long to reply, just been one of those weeks.
So from that useful advice it seems the THS is permanently on if you like. I also put a circuit tester on it and found it's connected all the time as in doesn't matter if you push down on it or not. I then tried running the THS routine without it connected and it starts the routine fine, so am guessing there is something wrong with THS, so have contacted the firm to see what they say.
However they didn't reply to my last e-mail or return phone calls so fingers crossed they reply this time.
19-06-2012, 06:30 AM
can you post a photo of the tool height setter so we can see it? Have you checked if you can unplug the THS cable from the controller and can you unplug the cable from the THS switch? This could be a very simple fault but this will let you test it.
23-06-2012, 08:10 PM
So after bombarding this firm with e-mails and phone calls finally I got a reply and they said to send it back to be checked. Apparently it should be always open, only closing when the tool hits it, so guessing there's a fault somewhere.
I tested it by running the THS program without it connected and it started to descend, but if the THS is plugged in it instantly stops, but also put a circuit tester on the jack plug to the THS and found the circuit was closed, and its suppose to be open.
I'll send it back and see what they say.
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