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JoeHarris
03-10-2016, 10:15 PM
Has anyone got any experience of these?
https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema23-4Nm/Stepper-Motor-4Nm-60BYGH401-03-Nema23

Was wondering if it might be man enough to belt drive my x-axis??? I have no real issue with a nema 34 and 240v drive but would the 4nm nema 23 be faster..? The old issue of wanting this machine to do wood and aluminium! And remembering I have 5mm pitch screws.

njhussey
03-10-2016, 10:18 PM
I've got an 8Nm Nema 34 in my X axis and 240V drive but 10mm pitch screws....you could always go 2:1 on the pulleys. I cut plastics at 7500mm/sec and that's plenty quick enough 😁

How heavy is your X axis?

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Clive S
03-10-2016, 10:27 PM
I cut plastics at 7500mm/sec and that's plenty quick enough 😁Neil Are you sure:whistle:

JoeHarris
03-10-2016, 10:27 PM
I'm not sure on the weight, not crazy as it is ali extrusion and 20mm plate - pretty standard L design! It wasn't standard when I started but people keep starting and finishing their builds while I keep trudging along at a snails pace! I was planning on going 2:1. Have you cut much wood - how slow can you go?!

JoeHarris
03-10-2016, 10:29 PM
Neil Are you sure:whistle:

Per min I'm guessing!

njhussey
03-10-2016, 10:32 PM
Neil Are you sure:whistle:
Oops....its late and I was moving house all weekend....still at the old rented house now touching up paint, filling holes etc.....

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JoeHarris
03-10-2016, 10:32 PM
Quick progress shot to prove I haven't given up! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161003/9642671996388331f0e557df822d6532.jpg

njhussey
03-10-2016, 10:32 PM
Per min I'm guessing!
Erm....yes...per sec would be going some!!!!!

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JoeHarris
03-10-2016, 10:33 PM
Oops....its late and I was moving house all weekend....still at the old rented house now touching up paint, filling holes etc.....

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Bet your glad your machine is a work! I don't fancy moving this beast!

njhussey
03-10-2016, 10:47 PM
Too right....had to use the forklift once it was on its frame, far too heavy to lift!

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Clive S
04-10-2016, 09:03 AM
Certainly looking good Joe. Re the nema 24 I use one on the Z on my mill but on the router very similar to yours I use two 23's but Dean when using one belt for the two screws uses a nema 34 but no doubt he will confirm this for you.

JAZZCNC
04-10-2016, 03:51 PM
Joe that 4nm 23 will struggle with 2 x 5mm pitch screws. It will turn them no problem but you'll have to sacrifice speed and with only 5mm pitch your already down on speed. I'd estimate you'll get around 4mtr/min Max rapid speed which isn't really enough for router. Idealy you'd want at least double this.

With 5mm pitch you'll struggle to get this with any single stepper motor 34 or 23 unless you go for larger motor and use ratio 1:2 ie Big pulley on motor small on screw. You need the larger motor becuase the ratio lowers torque not increases. Also you'll lose resolution but because you effectively have too much to start with this isn't problem.
My original machine ran with 6Nm with 2005mm pitch screws on 1:2 ratio running on 70Vdc and worked perfectly for well over 5yrs.

My advise is either change to 10mm pitch with small ratio if using 4nm 23 or go with twin motors.

To give you some idea I've just built 2 x 1250 x 750 sized machines that are using twin 2010 screws with no ratio applied running on single 4.5Nm 34 with 72Vdc using AM882 drives and they are tuned at 10mtr/min.

JoeHarris
04-10-2016, 07:39 PM
Thanks Dean, I don't really want to have to replace the screws. This is what I mean about time passing - I based that decision on your old machine!! Would the larger mains voltage driver make a difference to speed? Are you saying a 4nm 23 could drive both of the screws if they were 2010? If so that would be a significant saving...

JAZZCNC
04-10-2016, 09:33 PM
Would the larger mains voltage driver make a difference to speed?

Well yes it would but still you'll be limited mostly by the 5mm pitch. Simple maths really 1000rpm would give 5mtr/min but with 10mm that would be 10mtr/min for same RPM. The larger motors start to lose Torque quickly after 1000rpm so at best you'll get 1500rpm which is only 7500mtr/min.
Even then at 1500rpm your in the region where screw whip can start to become issue.


Are you saying a 4nm 23 could drive both of the screws if they were 2010? If so that would be a significant saving...

Yes it would, esp if 16mm dia but like I say you'll need ratio to increase torque. This will come at the cost of speed so you'll still be down in the 7500mtr/min area.

If it was me I'd go with 34 and run them on 70vdc and see what you get. 8nm should get you around 5-6mtr/min before saturation takes affect. Then if want little extra speed apply ratio to increase. 8nm will have enough spare power to handle the ratio.

JoeHarris
04-10-2016, 10:13 PM
If it was me I'd go with 34 and run them on 70vdc and see what you get. 8nm should get you around 5-6mtr/min before saturation takes affect. Then if want little extra speed apply ratio to increase. 8nm will have enough spare power to handle the ratio.

Thanks for the patient explanation. Just so I'm clear are you saying 5-6m/min with 5mm or 10mm screws?

The things I have decided so far are:

> I want to use a csmio/ip-m
> I want to use it properly which means 3 motors and long belt on x
> I will use em806 drives on z and y with the 1605 screws I already have

The options are (all could be with or without ratio)

1. Stick with 2005 screws on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and 240v drive
2. Stick with 2005 screws on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and another em806
3. Swap screws for 2010 on x powered by 8nm nema 34 stepper and another em806

In order of preference I'm guessing you would say 3, 1, 2?

If I went with 2 as a starter I could see how it goes and swap out the screws in future... It's the only option which isn't insanely expensive!

JAZZCNC
05-10-2016, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the patient explanation. Just so I'm clear are you saying 5-6m/min with 5mm or 10mm screws?

With 5mm pitch.


If I went with 2 as a starter I could see how it goes and swap out the screws in future... It's the only option which isn't insanely expensive!

This is why I'd go with the setup suggested. Easy to change up without costing the earth. If you make good job of alignment etc then you'll get 5-6mtr/min. Stick small ratio on and you'll get the speed up to point can cut most things.

JoeHarris
05-10-2016, 10:24 PM
With 5mm pitch.



This is why I'd go with the setup suggested. Easy to change up without costing the earth. If you make good job of alignment etc then you'll get 5-6mtr/min. Stick small ratio on and you'll get the speed up to point can cut most things.

OK thanks Dean, sounds good. Tried to email chai to get best special price for some 2010s but email bounced... Wonder if he is still in business?!

Is 6mH inductance reasonable for a 8.7nm 34? i.e. this fella: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema34/Stepper-Motor-8.7Nm-86HS115-4208-Nema34

JAZZCNC
05-10-2016, 11:00 PM
OK thanks Dean, sounds good. Tried to email chai to get best special price for some 2010s but email bounced... Wonder if he is still in business?!

Is 6mH inductance reasonable for a 8.7nm 34? i.e. this fella: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor/Nema34/Stepper-Motor-8.7Nm-86HS115-4208-Nema34

Drop Fred at BST automation on ali express message asking for quote. He's good guy to deal with.

Yes 6mH is ok for such large motor. I've used these and nice motors.

JoeHarris
05-10-2016, 11:07 PM
I got my hiwin rails from Fred and yes agree he was very good. I'm working on a circuit diagram at the moment - hope to have that uploaded for scrutiny (a laugh at any rate) by you lot in a few days, so good to have that cleared up, cheers.

JoeHarris
07-10-2016, 11:05 PM
Practice run for the next bit of aluminium routing. Pleased with my new Trend jig which should make pocketing for the motor mounts a lot easier. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161007/54f99ddcf6958e81ef03746361176dea.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161007/a540d2aedaab4e39dee97ad9ef6b1098.jpg

njhussey
10-10-2016, 03:59 PM
Coming along nicely Joe....liking the progress even if it is slow...you've still got a long way to go to beat how long it took me to make mine :beer:

JoeHarris
11-10-2016, 06:06 PM
Thanks Neil,

the encouragement is appreciated!

JoeHarris
12-10-2016, 01:20 PM
19425
Attached is my first crack at a circuit diagram for the machine. I am not sure that I have got the pilz right and I think the estop circuit in general could do with some work as the spindle is not currently part of it. Do I connect to the same contractor I have for the stepper drive power supplies or another? I have a couple of relays left on the pilz X1 if I need them... Also, I'm sure I have read that you shouldn't just cut power to the VFD...?

I'll continue to work on it (and research) but thought I'd put it up for your amusement! As always any comment gratefully received :hopelessness:

(Just realised that the resolution reduces when you upload. I will try and sort out the text sizes as they are pretty fuzzy in places)

Clive S
12-10-2016, 01:49 PM
Joe The text is a bit small to read. You are showing a 68V power supply does this also provide the 12V to the fans

JoeHarris
12-10-2016, 01:57 PM
Joe The text is a bit small to read. You are showing a 68V power supply does this also provide the 12V to the fans

Sorry about the text. It looked OK until I uploaded it. When I get a minute I'll pump it up. Yes the 68v leadshine power supply powers the fans via 12v auxiliary: http://www.leadshine.com/productdetail.aspx?type=products&category=power-supplies&producttype=linear&model=PS806-12

JAZZCNC
12-10-2016, 02:26 PM
Not very easy to read labels but I suspect your using the HV option on controller to turn on contactor.?
Don't use it my self because it's pain in arse.? It will drop the power to drives every time you put mach into reset. This means because the motors jump when powering drives you'll have to home the machine everytime mach goes into reset. Many times that will be ok but there are others when you don't want that. Like when making simple setting change etc.
I'd just have the E-stop safety relay switch contactor on.

Couple of small things I see.

#1 Fuse the Water pump.
#2 Run water pump 0V thru VFD relay so only comes on when spindle running.

Regards VFD power then wouldn't get too OCD about it.! The controller will Stop it spinning when see's E-stop so could leave it out of the E-stop system if you like.
But if you do want to Kill it then use Timer relay which is set to drop power after spindle stops spinning. Personaly I wouldn't bother because the few times you will Kill power while spindle is spinning won't hurt the VFD. Plus the VFD takes several sec's to power down anyway because of Caps. By which time spindle will have stopped.! . . . . . Anyway If Cutter is embedded in your hand you won't really care because you'll passout before VFD powers down.:hysterical:

JoeHarris
12-10-2016, 02:31 PM
Not very easy to read labels but I suspect your using the HV option on controller to turn on contactor.?
Don't use it my self because it's pain in arse.? It will drop the power to drives every time you put mach into reset. This means because the motors jump when powering drives you'll have to home the machine everytime mach goes into reset. Many times that will be ok but there are others when you don't want that. Like when making simple setting change etc.
I'd just have the E-stop safety relay switch contactor on.

Couple of small things I see.

#1 Fuse the Water pump.
#2 Run water pump 0V thru VFD relay so only comes on when spindle running.

Regards VFD power then wouldn't get too OCD about it.! The controller will Stop it spinning when see's E-stop so could leave it out of the E-stop system if you like.
But if you do want to Kill it then use Timer relay which is set to drop power after spindle stops spinning. Personaly I wouldn't bother because the few times you will Kill power while spindle is spinning won't hurt the VFD. Plus the VFD takes several sec's to power down anyway because of Caps. By which time spindle will have stopped.! . . . . . Anyway If Cutter is embedded in your hand you won't really care because you'll passout before VFD powers down.:hysterical:

Thanks Dean! I'll make some changes and up the text size. Appreciate the help.

mekanik
12-10-2016, 06:39 PM
Hi Guys
Don't know is it's just my old iMac but if i open the attachment then double click on it it opens a browser window and the screen can be enlarged with mouse click making the text legible.
Regards
Mike

njhussey
12-10-2016, 06:40 PM
Hi Guys
Don't know is it's just my old iMac but if i open the attachment then double click on it it opens a browser window and the screen can be enlarged with mouse click making the text legible.
Regards
Mike
It's them old buggers Mike....forgot to put their glasses on [emoji12]

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JAZZCNC
12-10-2016, 06:44 PM
It's them old buggers Mike....forgot to put their glasses on [emoji12]

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Hey your not far wrong I've blown 2 transformer up because didn't put my glasses on . . . Lol

But in this case the small writing for the I/O still isn't clear. Well on my PC anyway.!!

JoeHarris
12-10-2016, 09:38 PM
The human toolpath is pretty smooth despite appearances - characterful!! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161012/18b6cc900e4d848d7053dc1e2c118958.jpg

JoeHarris
12-10-2016, 10:38 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161012/d069ab0dd7568e939d5fa120e56f2556.jpgVibration white finger here I come! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161012/f165169fd2efe22244e8c6004d84b4ea.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161012/aa942e97ea0b48456758ba433414da1e.jpg

njhussey
13-10-2016, 07:44 AM
Coming along nicely...love shiney machined aluminium pictures 😁

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Wobblycogs
13-10-2016, 10:50 AM
Looks great, how long did it take to mill / rout out?

JoeHarris
13-10-2016, 11:29 AM
Looks great, how long did it take to mill / rout out?

Not as long as I thought - half an hour or so. I took 1/2mm per pass which was more aggressive than the last time but was fine. So 32 passes with a 10mm carbide end mill.

Wobblycogs
13-10-2016, 01:41 PM
Yeah, 0.5mm is about what I've taken when I've tried routing aluminium, quite honestly though it scares me but my fence set up wasn't as good as yours. It's not too bad if you've got a decent spray of WD40 on it but I couldn't get past the feeling that it was going to catch and rip the router out of my hands.

JoeHarris
13-10-2016, 01:44 PM
Yeah, 0.5mm is about what I've taken when I've tried routing aluminium, quite honestly though it scares me but my fence set up wasn't as good as yours. It's not too bad if you've got a decent spray of WD40 on it but I couldn't get past the feeling that it was going to catch and rip the router out of my hands.

I know what you mean, I wouldn't want to do it with a smaller router. A cheap 1/4 inch would be terrifying!

JoeHarris
13-10-2016, 05:37 PM
19440
I have not had a chance to update this much but you should now be able to read it at least. :distrust:

JoeHarris
18-10-2016, 01:25 PM
Not very easy to read labels but I suspect your using the HV option on controller to turn on contactor.?
Don't use it my self because it's pain in arse.? It will drop the power to drives every time you put mach into reset. This means because the motors jump when powering drives you'll have to home the machine everytime mach goes into reset. Many times that will be ok but there are others when you don't want that. Like when making simple setting change etc.
I'd just have the E-stop safety relay switch contactor on.

Couple of small things I see.

#1 Fuse the Water pump.
#2 Run water pump 0V thru VFD relay so only comes on when spindle running.

Regards VFD power then wouldn't get too OCD about it.! The controller will Stop it spinning when see's E-stop so could leave it out of the E-stop system if you like.
But if you do want to Kill it then use Timer relay which is set to drop power after spindle stops spinning. Personaly I wouldn't bother because the few times you will Kill power while spindle is spinning won't hurt the VFD. Plus the VFD takes several sec's to power down anyway because of Caps. By which time spindle will have stopped.! . . . . . Anyway If Cutter is embedded in your hand you won't really care because you'll passout before VFD powers down.:hysterical:

Thanks for the Help!

I have added a fuse to the water pump (not sure what ampage for that yet as haven't chosen a pump yet.)

I have added another contactor and a switch on the 24v circuit to control the pump and VFD

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you just have the E-stop safety relay switch the contactor on. Presumably I still want the drive fault signals connected to the pilz?

19469

Also, I am struggling with grounding the various components. Do I need to connect the motors or drives back to the star ground and if so, how?!

Also should the earth terminal on the VFD just go back to the earth terminal on the plug or the star ground and should the CSMIO just go back to the star ground or should this also be connected back the earth on the power plug?

I know similar questions have been asked and answered elsewhere but I'm struggling to piece it all together...

Thanks guys.

JoeHarris
21-10-2016, 11:35 PM
A bit more work with the drill, bandsaw, router and belt sander followed by a lot of work with a needle file I've almost finished my first motor mount!http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/0f8fd92f4d9a8b37edcb2d67f993a66d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/d410e386295ad25a293d55d842f36245.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/bbf7ed2bfb1a9458e60220febd53dba5.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/e5b8c85842981dcf1eb451a8940aa2c8.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/f73c7515c332ac97a1438eff88cc6047.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/34b935b66e4d2cb2f2e9b1d3202a60bd.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/285ebfac0a9ba3750f7508bb76ba9ca4.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161021/149e75ed8c67df7a02f10a470a213b0d.jpg

routercnc
22-10-2016, 09:08 AM
Great work Joe, nearly there now. Frustrating thing is making that bracket would be really quick with a CNC machine!

JAZZCNC
22-10-2016, 09:31 AM
Great work Joe, nearly there now. Frustrating thing is making that bracket would be really quick with a CNC machine!

I bet joe really appreciated you saying that and when is fingers have stopped bleeding started working again after the 20hrs filling I'm sure he'll thank you.!! . . Ya teasing bugger.:hysterical:

Joe this machine is and will be credit to you and one of very few machines that can truely be called hand built. It should be and will be by me anyway, held up to all those wanting to building machine who don't have machinery to help and think it can't be done.

If this site had an award for best build I'd vote you the winner.:encouragement:

Clive S
22-10-2016, 09:52 AM
Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Keep going Joe its certainly coming together.

JoeHarris
22-10-2016, 11:04 AM
Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Keep going Joe its certainly coming together.


I bet joe really appreciated you saying that and when is fingers have stopped bleeding started working again after the 20hrs filling I'm sure he'll thank you.!! . . Ya teasing bugger.:hysterical:

Joe this machine is and will be credit to you and one of very few machines that can truely be called hand built. It should be and will be by me anyway, held up to all those wanting to building machine who don't have machinery to help and think it can't be done.

If this site had an award for best build I'd vote you the winner.:encouragement:

Cheers guys, definitely could not have got this far without your help! Really appreciate the guidance and encouragement and hopefully one day it will move by itself!

JoeHarris
22-10-2016, 11:05 AM
Great work Joe, nearly there now. Frustrating thing is making that bracket would be really quick with a CNC machine!

Haha yep had the same thought myself a few times! Kind of fun making it with basic equipment though

njhussey
22-10-2016, 05:27 PM
Looking better and better Joe, can't wait to see this finished...looks a cracking machine.

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Lee Roberts
22-10-2016, 07:24 PM
Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Keep going Joe its certainly coming together.
Funny I was thinking 2 days ago if or not to introduce a BOTM or something, build of the month may be a bit hard to do every month so yearly sounds better?

100 prize, t-shirt, mouse mat all the normal goodies, hobnobs for the runners up?

routercnc
22-10-2016, 08:40 PM
Funny I was thinking 2 days ago if or not to introduce a BOTM or something, build of the month may be a bit hard to do every month so yearly sounds better?

100 prize, t-shirt, mouse mat all the normal goodies, hobnobs for the runners up?

Sounds like a good idea. Are you thinking of judging it yourself, or more of an open forum vote? Maybe awarded some time just before Christmas as an end of year 'well done'.

Lee Roberts
24-10-2016, 12:10 AM
Sounds like a good idea. Are you thinking of judging it yourself, or more of an open forum vote? Maybe awarded some time just before Christmas as an end of year 'well done'.

No no community vote, can put up a poll with the option to vote for your/each favorite entry. Yea my thoughts exactly, what would be better, is if we could get some prizes donated from a few of the usual suppliers, so things people would like rather than cash.

Could do a POTM, part of the month could work better for the smaller less valuable prizes, more importantly I think is this one may encourage people to share more about the things they make once up and running...most seem to build then leave us hanging with regards to their cnc career adventure vs their cnc build journey...

Its nice to see the fruits of labour too !

Lee Roberts
24-10-2016, 03:45 PM
"No no community vote" should be read as "no no of course it would be a community vote".

Sorry, after reading that bit back I wasn't sure it would be interpreted how I intended :thumsup:

njhussey
24-10-2016, 04:39 PM
No no no no....yes 😁

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routercnc
24-10-2016, 09:23 PM
"No no community vote" should be read as "no no of course it would be a community vote".

Sorry, after reading that bit back I wasn't sure it would be interpreted how I intended :thumsup:

I read it a few times and thought you must have meant community vote as per post #300. Wondering if post #297 onward could be split off to give Joe his thread back?
Looking forward to seeing what commercial interest there might be after you put the feelers out.

Lee Roberts
25-10-2016, 10:27 AM
No no no no....yes

yes yes confirmed.


Wondering if post #297 onward could be split off to give Joe his thread back? Looking forward to seeing what commercial interest there might be after you put the feelers out.

Will do, was hoping some of you lot would want to get more involved and man the organizing/setting up?, someone to "take the reins" as they say would be nice.

I cant do everything, all at the same time. Wish I was an octopus i've got that much going on, if no one wants to lead the way on this then it will just be something I do at my own leisure.

I'm still not well at all so the last thing I need right now is more things to stress about, I'd much rather wait and fully enjoy the endeavour.

.

JoeHarris
02-12-2016, 11:58 PM
Small update: https://vimeo.com/194115391


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Clive S
03-12-2016, 08:06 AM
It's alive, well nearly :thumsup: Always nice to see it move

Neale
03-12-2016, 08:14 AM
Yes, great moment when something moves under power! Now, if you can sync two cordless drills for testing master plus slave axes...

Edit - just flicked back and see you are using the long-belt sync method. Saves requirement for synchronised cordless drills :smile:

JoeHarris
03-12-2016, 08:31 AM
Yes, great moment when something moves under power! Now, if you can sync two cordless drills for testing master plus slave axes...

Edit - just flicked back and see you are using the long-belt sync method. Saves requirement for synchronised cordless drills :smile:

Haha yes!


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njhussey
03-12-2016, 09:32 AM
I always fancied using my router like an etch-a-sketch with drills 😁 Well done Joe, its getting better and better...

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JAZZCNC
10-12-2016, 11:03 AM
Thanks for the Help!

I have added a fuse to the water pump (not sure what ampage for that yet as haven't chosen a pump yet.)

I have added another contactor and a switch on the 24v circuit to control the pump and VFD

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you just have the E-stop safety relay switch the contactor on. Presumably I still want the drive fault signals connected to the pilz?

Also, I am struggling with grounding the various components. Do I need to connect the motors or drives back to the star ground and if so, how?!

Also should the earth terminal on the VFD just go back to the earth terminal on the plug or the star ground and should the CSMIO just go back to the star ground or should this also be connected back the earth on the power plug?

I know similar questions have been asked and answered elsewhere but I'm struggling to piece it all together...

Thanks guys.

Sorry Joe just looking back at your build and didn't see these questions. So here goes.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say you just have the E-stop safety relay switch the contactor on. Presumably I still want the drive fault signals connected to the pilz?

Yes still want fault signals in E-stop. What I meant was use another contact on the Relay and run 24V thru it which then turns on Mains Contactor.


Also, I am struggling with grounding the various components. Do I need to connect the motors or drives back to the star ground and if so, how?!

Only the Shield of the Motor cable and only the control box end needs grounding to Star point. To save wasting wire and stripping insulation back so shield wire reachs star point and drives just run single wire from Star point to point near drives and solder to the Shields or use connector block.


Also should the earth terminal on the VFD just go back to the earth terminal on the plug or the star ground and should the CSMIO just go back to the star ground or should this also be connected back the earth on the power plug?

The Earth wire on the Plug and the Star point should be the same thing, that's the whole idea. You have one Point that the main Earth comes into which is then distributed to all that need Earth. You also take all shields back to this point.

So in this case if the VFD is in the main Control box case (which personally I don't like) and turns on with control box you would take to Star earth point.
The shield for Spindle cable is best or easier if connected to the Earth Terminal in VFD.

If the VFD is external then just use the cables earth wire back to Plug. Same connection as above applies with shield.

IP-M Earth goes to the Star point.

JoeHarris
10-12-2016, 09:41 PM
Sorry Joe just looking back at your build and didn't see these questions. So here goes.

Thanks Dean. I will digest this and revisit the circuit diagram. No doubt there will be more questions! I would also like to pick your brains on the power supply if possible...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161210/30d77cf72bde19a84a686767f6fc4381.jpg http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161211/05d09eecc598bac3557f10663bd2960a.jpg
belt tensioner pulleys are in.


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JoeHarris
12-12-2016, 09:55 PM
-----------

JoeHarris
05-01-2017, 11:17 PM
Evening all. For anyone interested in milling Aluminium with a hand held router as I have been doing in this build I've made a little (very amateur!) video of the process:

https://youtu.be/22cCYY5pVMI

My setup is a 10mm carbide endmill (and collet) in a dewalt 1/2" router. Using a trend adjustable jig clamped to my bench. Not so much a "how to" as a "it can be done if you're patient!". I couldn't find much on this on YouTube when I looked a year or so ago so thought I'd fill the gap with some shaky phone footage!

Clive S
06-01-2017, 10:21 AM
Nice vid Joe (I mean the one of you skating around St.Ives showing your wild side :onthego:) only kidding.

Just goes to show what can be done with a few tools (one can always be hired for the weekend) I am a bit surprised how well it hold the ali down under the jig.

JoeHarris
06-01-2017, 04:08 PM
Nice vid Joe (I mean the one of you skating around St.Ives showing your wild side :onthego:) only kidding.

Just goes to show what can be done with a few tools (one can always be hired for the weekend) I am a bit surprised how well it hold the ali down under the jig.

Haha! Yes that was fun! I stuck the first down with double sided tape but this one just a bit of masking tape around the edge and the pressure of the jig was plenty.

JoeHarris
11-01-2017, 01:10 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170111/04584a51835ea30a2bbf4c46c0962d50.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170111/b4a29f2cc22b719b0b63f56810136353.jpg

I have finished the part in the video I posted before . This is the z axis motor mount. To complete the story I have also made another little video - https://youtu.be/PT56_YEkClo

JoeHarris
18-01-2017, 12:38 AM
For anyone thinking about hand making NEMA 34 motor mounts there are some pitfalls you should be aware of... https://youtu.be/CNW9vlPraUg


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AndyGuid
18-01-2017, 01:22 AM
Many Thanks Joe,

Think I must have previously missed the link to your overall build video which I've just watched and it's now bookmarked for reference.

I'm finding your build log is gradually developing into a great one for me to reference!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZo2LVQA9UI

mekanik
18-01-2017, 10:33 AM
Hi Joe
Machines coming along a treat, please do not try routing this setup without a sub base on you router, it's too easy to have a disaster. on another point i am looking into buying a bandsaw, what make is the one you are using in the video and is it any good.
Regards
Mike

JoeHarris
19-01-2017, 10:29 PM
Hi Joe
Machines coming along a treat, please do not try routing this setup without a sub base on you router, it's too easy to have a disaster. on another point i am looking into buying a bandsaw, what make is the one you are using in the video and is it any good.
Regards
Mike

Don't worry Mike I have a Heath Robinson base plate / sub base which has worked ok! My band saw is one of these https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Record-Power-Rptbs250-5055151119175-Bs250-Benchtop-Bandsaw?gclid=CNaSrOSgz9ECFUUq0wodsXMKdw

It has been pretty good but it is quite small and low powered for metal work. Gets by though! You will need to buy a metal cutting blade as it is designed for wood really...

JoeHarris
21-01-2017, 09:17 PM
More on the Heath Robinson sub base for my router - works ok despite appearing (although not really being?!) very dangerous! https://youtu.be/P33QiUFooIg


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Clive S
21-01-2017, 10:37 PM
Ingenuity at its best:applouse:

JAZZCNC
22-01-2017, 08:57 PM
Bloody hell Jo that would have tickled bit if that blade caught collet spun up . .:dejection: . . .

JoeHarris
22-01-2017, 09:02 PM
Haha yep just finishing it now and that thought did cross my mind. But the only thing touching the saw blade is the bushing so I figure it's safe enough!?

JoeHarris
22-01-2017, 09:59 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170122/e39446c0bcd93261cc84c8ef8c20e963.jpg Routing finished!

JoeHarris
26-01-2017, 12:34 AM
OK folks, finally finished the NEMA 34 mount tonight. Pleased with it, and quite pleased with the final video I've made about making it! No more routing with the circular saw blade now Jazz, I promise! https://youtu.be/nbmGCuirTy4


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Clive S
26-01-2017, 08:31 AM
OK folks, finally finished the NEMA 34 mount tonight. Pleased with it, and quite pleased with the final video I've made about making it! No more routing with the circular saw blade now Jazz, I promise! https://youtu.be/nbmGCuirTy4


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Joe nice vid, Are you sure that the motor is seating in the mount properly I am not sure but it looks like there is a gap between the face of the motor and the mount.

JoeHarris
26-01-2017, 01:25 PM
Thanks eagle eyes! There is a intentional gap (about 1mm) between the bit that sticks out around the shaft in the motor and the back of the mount but the face of the motor sits firmly against the mount.


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JoeHarris
06-02-2017, 11:55 PM
For anyone interested I have uploaded another short video showing some z axis progress to YouTube: https://youtu.be/nBGU28XVHdA
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170206/710731a2750d343c59e8040f845bd626.jpg

Nr1madman
07-02-2017, 07:46 AM
I love your videos, you are a great inspiration

JoeHarris
09-02-2017, 12:33 AM
I love your videos, you are a great inspiration

Thanks!


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JoeHarris
09-02-2017, 10:49 PM
One of my colleagues sent me this today - figured some of you guys might appreciate it too..! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170209/8e293319623e661b46a670990a72c166.jpg

Nr1madman
10-02-2017, 10:47 AM
Hey Joe,
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but how do you print your schematics that you use to centerpunch your drill holes (your youtube video of Z axis plate for example)
When I try it comes out the wrong size. Tried printing from solid works, exporting to pdf then print and exporting to dxf then print.. nothing seems to work perfect :)

JoeHarris
10-02-2017, 08:47 PM
Ah, guess it depends on your printer? I use the big HP plotter at work which is accurate to a fraction of a mm...

I found the laser printer to be pretty inaccurate maybe because of the heat? What are you printing with?

Nr1madman
11-02-2017, 03:17 AM
I have only tried the laserprinter at work.. might be the problem :) will try a printshop maybe! Thanks!

Clive S
11-02-2017, 09:04 AM
I have only tried the laserprinter at work.. might be the problem :) will try a printshop maybe! Thanks!I take it you are printing the scale as 1:1 and not fit to page!!

Nr1madman
11-02-2017, 10:24 AM
Yeah :D tried fit to page first.. scratched my head when the print was 22cm instead of 16!
Now I get something like 16.8 :(

Clive S
11-02-2017, 11:14 AM
Yeah :D tried fit to page first.. scratched my head when the print was 22cm instead of 16!
Now I get something like 16.8 :(

Well there is something wrong as even with a bad printer it should only be about .5mm out.

Can you measure the print exactly and work out the scale and then adjust it.

can you post the dxf up here and I will try and print it for you or adjust it in Acad

Ok edit: I have printed out in SW direct from the part on screen but you have to go into "file/print" and then page setup my printer shows "scale to fit" and "scale "100%" choose 100% It works for me.

Nr1madman
11-02-2017, 12:52 PM
Well there is something wrong as even with a bad printer it should only be about .5mm out.

Can you measure the print exactly and work out the scale and then adjust it.

can you post the dxf up here and I will try and print it for you or adjust it in Acad

Ok edit: I have printed out in SW direct from the part on screen but you have to go into "file/print" and then page setup my printer shows "scale to fit" and "scale "100%" choose 100% It works for me.

Will try with new settings, maybe I have a scale error in the printer setup! If I can't get it to work I will pm you with the dxf Clive :)
Thanks in advance!

JoeHarris
15-02-2017, 12:12 PM
Hello everyone - bit of progress on the z axis... need to revisit the circuit diagram, the mechanical stuff is getting close now [emoji846]


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/60319874416824ce3659d570e2a94697.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/90fa0fc7a52d7b3a3da087fbc049dbf9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/fc7e7e3a93cf34df2f4bbfefc3f5b736.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/d7d4ec3dbd5b0982ed71d399752e5fdb.jpg

JoeHarris
25-02-2017, 10:32 PM
Following on from the pictures in the previous post above, another short video of the dry run assembly of the z axis below: https://youtu.be/_0nJBaUaBBA

I still need to make the bracket which fits between the top bearing mount and the z motor mount, the bottom bearing plate and the front z axis plate where the spindle will be mounted.

I'm going to open up the holes on the plates which pull the z bearings forward to allow better alignment. Align them with one another using the dial indicator... the problem is then I cannot get to the bolts which fix the vertical plate to the bearing plate to get that adjusted - wish I had foreseen these problems when designing the thing! Nothing some shims can't fix?!


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Clive S
25-02-2017, 11:02 PM
As always Joe love the music and the vid. I think this is one of he best router builds on the forum It puts all the wingers to shame. Thanks for the entertainment :congratulatory:

JoeHarris
26-02-2017, 10:29 AM
As always Joe love the music and the vid. I think this is one of he best router builds on the forum It puts all the wingers to shame. Thanks for the entertainment :congratulatory:

Cheers Clive!


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warwick
26-02-2017, 12:40 PM
getting close now joe!! great build.... if this is your first machine the feeling you get when your creation first comes alive is very strange ...

njhussey
27-02-2017, 09:36 AM
Joe, that's one mighty fine looking CNC machine, I've enjoyed the build so far and now looking forward to seeing the first chips flying in the not too distant future!!

JoeHarris
05-03-2017, 01:31 PM
Thanks guys, getting there!!


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JAZZCNC
05-03-2017, 02:28 PM
Oh shit just realised didn't reply to your message, sorry Jo slipped my mind will do later today.

JoeHarris
05-03-2017, 02:57 PM
Oh shit just realised didn't reply to your message, sorry Jo slipped my mind will do later today.

No worries at all! Whenever you get a minute - no hurry!!


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JoeHarris
14-03-2017, 08:58 PM
Does anyone have any strong views on grubscrews they would like to share!? I want to get my HTD5M-15 timing pulleys ordered. Do you tend to go for the largest size the pulley can take? For a P14-5M-15F, for example, with an 8mm bore, you can get 1 or 2no. M3 or M4... I'm thinking 2no. M4?? But the P28-5M-15F for my NEMA 34 which will have a 12.67mm bore and a 5mm keyway can go all the way up to 2no. M8 grubscrews which sound huge!? Any thought from those who have gone before? Cheers


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njhussey
14-03-2017, 09:20 PM
2 x M4 on the small ones, flats on the shaft and flattened bits of copper (Clive's tip) under the grubscrew tip and a single 8mm over the keyway...

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JoeHarris
14-03-2017, 09:21 PM
2 x M4 on the small ones, flats on the shaft and flattened bits of copper (Clive's tip) under the grubscrew tip and a single 8mm over the keyway...

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Nice one - [emoji482]

JoeHarris
21-03-2017, 11:27 PM
Got some random bits and pieces ordered - Pulleys, estop buttons, cy cable, copper tape, momentary switches, Ethernet panel connector, heat shrink, insulation tape... I'm going to bite the bullet and get the drives and controller ordered soon...


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njhussey
22-03-2017, 08:17 AM
Won't be long then Joe!

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Nr1madman
22-03-2017, 08:20 AM
Just curious.. what's the copper tape for? :)

Clive S
22-03-2017, 08:23 AM
Got some random bits and pieces ordered - Pulleys, estop buttons, cy cable, copper tape, momentary switches, Ethernet panel connector, heat shrink, insulation tape... I'm going to bite the bullet and get the drives and controller ordered soon...


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Joe Have you decided what drives and controller you will be using? Looking forward to the box build:eagerness:

JoeHarris
22-03-2017, 08:43 AM
Just curious.. what's the copper tape for? :)

Just to terminate the shielding on the cy cable where I have to cut it back... maybe an overkill but only costs a couple of quid!

JoeHarris
22-03-2017, 08:46 AM
Joe Have you decided what drives and controller you will be using? Looking forward to the box build:eagerness:

Thanks Clive, me too! The CS labs IP-M for the controller and either EM806 or AM882 for the drives. Probably AM882s as they seem pretty much the same but a lot cheaper?

JoeHarris
22-03-2017, 08:47 AM
Won't be long then Joe!

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Haha yeah! That's what I keep thinking!

njhussey
22-03-2017, 08:49 AM
Thanks Clive, me too! The CS labs IP-M for the controller and either EM806 or AM882 for the drives. Probably AM882s as they seem pretty much the same but a lot cheaper?
That's a good tried and tested combination...it's what I have, lovely kit.

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JoeHarris
22-03-2017, 04:44 PM
These little beauties just arrived :)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/b05b3ac294b088ca361b207975c2556b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/fcfa4a1e2db925052a96a5b8244e47b6.jpg

JoeHarris
18-04-2017, 05:45 PM
Hello!

Time for an update.

So I've done a bit more work on the z axis and you can see progress on this here: https://youtu.be/mWTSq0ZqsLE

But my main focus has been on getting the electrical side started.
Many thanks to Dean and Clive who have both been super helpful and now I think I have a workable circuit diagram which I feel happy to share on here. A word of caution to anyone just getting started, please do not follow this verbatim, there are no-doubt some mistakes / things I will change as I go and as with drawing out the mechanical stuff before you start, you need to do this yourself to get your head around what you are doing. That said, I'm more than happy to receive comments from experienced members, particularly if you spot any dumb mistakes.

I now have, or have on order, all the electrical bits and bobs, cable, ferules etc. apart from the big ticket stuff -the drives and controller which I am leaving as late as possible. I also need to figure out what current rating I will need for the 24V supply.

Really excited to start this part of the build finally!

Cheers everyone.

21418

Nr1madman
18-04-2017, 06:01 PM
Joe... That diagram is a beauty!
Don't know if everything is right but it shure is pretty :D

routercnc
18-04-2017, 08:29 PM
Looking good Joe
I removed my 12v supply and simplified everything to run off the 24V supply. Just need to pair up 12V devices in groups of 2 in series . E.g. 2 fans or fan and motor
Less things to go wrong and less space required in the box

Also I'd add a switch to the water cooled spindle pump - looks like it will run all the time which will be annoying plus may heat the water a little

JoeHarris
18-04-2017, 08:44 PM
Looking good Joe
I removed my 12v supply and simplified everything to run off the 24V supply. Just need to pair up 12V devices in groups of 2 in series . E.g. 2 fans or fan and motor
Less things to go wrong and less space required in the box

Also I'd add a switch to the water cooled spindle pump - looks like it will run all the time which will be annoying plus may heat the water a little

I have a 12v supply on order but it was only cheap. Clive has also suggested running all from 24v. I already have two 12v fans but could get one more and run in series with the 12v pump I guess. I was going to use a mcb instead of a fuse for the pump so I can switch it off with that?

JAZZCNC
18-04-2017, 10:17 PM
Also I'd add a switch to the water cooled spindle pump - looks like it will run all the time which will be annoying plus may heat the water a little

No he's running it thru the VFD relay so will only run when the Spindle is ON.

Joe: Is this different scheme to the ones you've been sending me because don't remember seeing 12V in there.? Thou must admit was only looking at the parts you asked me about.

Anyway dump the 12V and wire the Fans in series and buy 24V pump.

Clive S
18-04-2017, 10:18 PM
I already have two 12v fans but could get one more and run in series with the 12v pump I guess. I was going to use a mcb instead of a fuse for the pump so I can switch it off with that?
I would not run a 12V fan and 12V pump in series as they would be different VA's therefor they would not give a 50:50
V divider

JoeHarris
18-04-2017, 10:25 PM
I would not run a 12V fan and 12V pump in series as they would be different VA's therefor they would not give a 50:50
V divider

Thanks Clive - good call!


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JoeHarris
18-04-2017, 10:31 PM
No he's running it thru the VFD relay so will only run when the Spindle is ON.

Joe: Is this different scheme to the ones you've been sending me because don't remember seeing 12V in there.? Thou must admit was only looking at the parts you asked me about.

Anyway dump the 12V and wire the Fans in series and buy 24V pump.

It's a new addition because I have a 12v pump but not a big deal - a 24v pump will be cheap enough in the scheme of things! You are right about the VFD switching the pump on so guess being able to switch manually on the mcb will not be all that useful.

How about this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172219861161

JAZZCNC
19-04-2017, 12:38 AM
It's a new addition because I have a 12v pump but not a big deal - a 24v pump will be cheap enough in the scheme of things! You are right about the VFD switching the pump on so guess being able to switch manually on the mcb will not be all that useful.

How about this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172219861161

Ah, ok thought was unusual for me to miss something obvious like that.!

Yep, that pump will be fine.

Regards the MCB then don't really need MCB but the suitable fuse is required to be safe but only in case of short it's not something you'll use has a switch.
The VFD Relay will handle this for you and because you'll only ever run the pump when the spindle is spinning you'll have no need to manual overide.

JoeHarris
19-04-2017, 01:13 PM
Ah, ok thought was unusual for me to miss something obvious like that.!

Yep, that pump will be fine.

Regards the MCB then don't really need MCB but the suitable fuse is required to be safe but only in case of short it's not something you'll use has a switch.
The VFD Relay will handle this for you and because you'll only ever run the pump when the spindle is spinning you'll have no need to manual overide.

Thanks Dean - do you tend to screen your alarm signals between drives and IP-M?

JoeHarris
19-04-2017, 05:52 PM
The 12V supply has gone!

21423

JoeHarris
21-04-2017, 08:07 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/b62961ef9793c419973eb05b35216760.jpg my collection of electrical bits so far...

routercnc
22-04-2017, 02:11 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/b62961ef9793c419973eb05b35216760.jpg my collection of electrical bits so far...

Looking good Joe

Does this help your pm question ?21464

P.s always intended to put hot melt glue over these

JoeHarris
23-04-2017, 12:03 AM
Looking good Joe

Does this help your pm question ?21464

P.s always intended to put hot melt glue over these

Thanks, they look like beasty cables! I like the idea of using hot glue as insulation.

The psu is coming together: tx, caps and rectifier all mounted to some ali plate. Getting 50V out of the rectifier. Not connected the capacitors yet.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/f2e1b8f6e092790d761ffe79b482a2f0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/9a6448f0e3f5ae47376d8dd39707898b.jpg

JAZZCNC
23-04-2017, 09:48 AM
Joe be careful after connecting the Caps because they will be charged and will give nasty surprise if you short the wires.

Edit: To answer your Alarm wire question from below then no I don't.

njhussey
23-04-2017, 09:05 PM
Joe be careful after connecting the Caps because they will be charged and will give nasty surprise if you short the wires.

Joe, they also take a long time to discharge if nothing is connected to them....

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JoeHarris
23-04-2017, 09:57 PM
Joe be careful after connecting the Caps because they will be charged and will give nasty surprise if you short the wires.

Edit: To answer your Alarm wire question from below then no I don't.

Joe, they also take a long time to discharge if nothing is connected to them....

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Thanks guys I'll be careful!

And good news on the alarm wiring as that would have been a pain.

JoeHarris
26-04-2017, 11:39 PM
Progress on the psu... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/a91b4d468165b46c922aab2a1af2eaae.jpg

JoeHarris
27-04-2017, 12:47 AM
I think I've finished the power supply... haven't switched on yet as I want to look it over again with fresh eyes and make sure I haven't done anything dumb! Here she is: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/1700a8f4e4be29d1f65db0e21d05f248.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/78dbfade4bd5b8cc6adbef5c4d21aacc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/85580e6ab920994385a1648feb539500.jpg

Power in top right via the D curve mcb which will be din mounted and dc out from the lower terminal block. I have wired a 10k resistor between the dc terminals to drain the caps once powered. Any comments before I turn it on?!

routercnc
27-04-2017, 12:13 PM
I think I've finished the power supply... haven't switched on yet as I want to look it over again with fresh eyes and make sure I haven't done anything dumb! Here she is: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/1700a8f4e4be29d1f65db0e21d05f248.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/78dbfade4bd5b8cc6adbef5c4d21aacc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/85580e6ab920994385a1648feb539500.jpg

Power in top right via the D curve mcb which will be din mounted and dc out from the lower terminal block. I have wired a 10k resistor between the dc terminals to drain the caps once powered. Any comments before I turn it on?!

If you got 50V in post 373 at the rectifier then so long as capacitors are correct way around then should work . . . Only one way to find out

Neale
27-04-2017, 03:44 PM
Only comment (if you have a chance to make any small mods at this stage) is to add a few more sets of terminal contacts for the output, all wired in parallel. This allows you to run separate power feeds to each stepper driver, rather wiring them daisy-chain fashion, and it's easier than trying to stick three big wires in the same terminal. Not sure if it really make a difference in our class of machine but it is generally considered good practice not to share high-power connections between devices, and it's a lot easier if you have multiple terminals available. Might be able to put multiple spade terminals on each of your contacts, though?

JoeHarris
27-04-2017, 07:13 PM
If you got 50V in post 373 at the rectifier then so long as capacitors are correct way around then should work . . . Only one way to find out

[emoji106] yep crack on!

JoeHarris
27-04-2017, 07:17 PM
Only comment (if you have a chance to make any small mods at this stage) is to add a few more sets of terminal contacts for the output, all wired in parallel. This allows you to run separate power feeds to each stepper driver, rather wiring them daisy-chain fashion, and it's easier than trying to stick three big wires in the same terminal. Not sure if it really make a difference in our class of machine but it is generally considered good practice not to share high-power connections between devices, and it's a lot easier if you have multiple terminals available. Might be able to put multiple spade terminals on each of your contacts, though?

Thanks Neale, The terminals are overkill in terms of size and will take two cables each but as I've shown on the circuit diagram the plan is to take one feed from the terminals on the power supply to some din terminal blocks with a jumper bar to provide as many as I need...

Neale
27-04-2017, 09:54 PM
Sounds fine. My PSU was originally bought from Zapp, although I have now changed the transformer in it, but it came with three pairs of output terminals already. Then I fitted it in a control box with four stepper drivers...

Must confess that I didn't actually put a wiring diagram together for mine, just some sketches to work out roughly what was needed. Then I set to work with a pile of cable reels, big box of ferrules and crimping tool, and quite a lot of black coffee. Don't try this one at home :whistle: Still, it does seem to work OK.

JoeHarris
27-04-2017, 10:08 PM
Sounds fine. My PSU was originally bought from Zapp, although I have now changed the transformer in it, but it came with three pairs of output terminals already. Then I fitted it in a control box with four stepper drivers...

Must confess that I didn't actually put a wiring diagram together for mine, just some sketches to work out roughly what was needed. Then I set to work with a pile of cable reels, big box of ferrules and crimping tool, and quite a lot of black coffee. Don't try this one at home :whistle: Still, it does seem to work OK.

Ha yes I would definitely fail with that approach so well done!

Well I've plugged it in and...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170427/6d38320b3a9fca1588db68bd213f9766.jpg
It works! Hooray, my first functioning bit of electronics for this machine!

Neale
27-04-2017, 10:32 PM
It's great when a plan comes together! Well done. All downhill from here...

JoeHarris
27-04-2017, 10:39 PM
It's great when a plan comes together! Well done. All downhill from here...

Thanks Neale wish I believed that! Still, well chuffed with that thanks everyone for the help.

Nickhofen
28-04-2017, 10:33 AM
Moving along nicely, very professional work!

toomast
30-04-2017, 06:38 AM
Looking good!
It is hard to see from the pictures, but please check soldering of the capacitors.

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JoeHarris
30-04-2017, 07:08 AM
Moving along nicely, very professional work!

Thanks!

JoeHarris
30-04-2017, 07:11 AM
Looking good!
It is hard to see from the pictures, but please check soldering of the capacitors.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Hi Toomast, the terminals on the caps have been pushed through the wire stands and then soldered, I have also put some hot glue over the bare wire to help prevent shorts.

toomast
30-04-2017, 08:19 AM
Hi Toomast, the terminals on the caps have been pushed through the wire stands and then soldered, I have also put some hot glue over the bare wire to help prevent shorts.

Good, maybe the glue makes it look odd on the picture. It can be tricky to get the thicker wires to heat up properly - risk of cold solder joint.

JoeHarris
03-05-2017, 08:06 PM
In the interests of completeness of my build log and in the hope that it may help demystify building your own power supply here are a couple of videos of my power supply build. Although it is obvious to me, I will point this out for any with less common sense - working with electricity, particularly mains can be very dangerous. If you want to build your own psu then you can take it from me, a totally amateur, that it is perfectly doable if you ask the right people the right questions. Please post your design and invite comment before embarking on a project like this. You need to consider what the right transformer, rectifier, capacitors and fuse will be before starting and do your research, because connecting it all up wrong will be disastrous. Thanks to Dean, Clive and Barry in particular (as always) for the tips and guidance. Ps any comments on my very basic explanation in the second video (about 12mins in) will be gratefully received although I except from the outset that it is basic!!

https://youtu.be/4OoQQg76ar4

https://youtu.be/WISDqx-e23M


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AndyUK
04-05-2017, 12:40 PM
Hi Joe,

First off, thanks for the fantastic build thread and video logs - keep them coming please! I've been getting more seriously into the initial design phases, had made some starting choices, then came across your build. Looks to me like you've encompassed the majority of the good advice out there, and then some more! I suspect when I get to a final design, it won't look too dissimilar to your own :)

Secondly, enjoyed watching your video this morning over breakfast - very well explained. Hadn't ever considered that the voltmeter was measuring RMS so UK mains peak-to-peak is sqrt(2)*240V. Only comment is that sometimes the audio balance in your videos is off - loud music, quiet talking! May just be me!

JoeHarris
04-05-2017, 07:34 PM
Hi Joe,

First off, thanks for the fantastic build thread and video logs - keep them coming please! I've been getting more seriously into the initial design phases, had made some starting choices, then came across your build. Looks to me like you've encompassed the majority of the good advice out there, and then some more! I suspect when I get to a final design, it won't look too dissimilar to your own :)

Secondly, enjoyed watching your video this morning over breakfast - very well explained. Hadn't ever considered that the voltmeter was measuring RMS so UK mains peak-to-peak is sqrt(2)*240V. Only comment is that sometimes the audio balance in your videos is off - loud music, quiet talking! May just be me!

Fair comment on the audio I'll try and sort that on the next one. Unfortunately I'm not kitted out for quality filming or editing - camera = my phone, editing on my phone, music = my phone... so pretty low tech!!

JoeHarris
04-05-2017, 07:35 PM
Hi Joe,

First off, thanks for the fantastic build thread and video logs - keep them coming please! I've been getting more seriously into the initial design phases, had made some starting choices, then came across your build. Looks to me like you've encompassed the majority of the good advice out there, and then some more! I suspect when I get to a final design, it won't look too dissimilar to your own :)

Secondly, enjoyed watching your video this morning over breakfast - very well explained. Hadn't ever considered that the voltmeter was measuring RMS so UK mains peak-to-peak is sqrt(2)*240V. Only comment is that sometimes the audio balance in your videos is off - loud music, quiet talking! May just be me!

There are some things I would do differently now so make sure you post your designs for feedback before you spend any money!

JoeHarris
19-05-2017, 08:30 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/acda3df41c0a2c0a9d1ab36d4fe67e9d.jpg

Hi everyone, I've managed to get a working mockup of the e-stop circuit together... another little video:
https://youtu.be/OUgjcH8JGMs

As always any comments gratefully received!

JoeHarris
19-05-2017, 09:59 PM
Can anyone explain what this is?? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/a5b913765bb5f37aa6481fdd6ff766bc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170519/6e3abc130758a3fd04121fcb1f8c5525.jpg

Limestone
19-05-2017, 10:54 PM
That is an interface converter that transforms a 0-10V analog signal to 0-20mA

Clive S
19-05-2017, 10:57 PM
This is it http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/signal-conditioning/4184859/

I think they are used in industry to remote measure sensors etc over a two wire system like this;-

https://www.acromag.com/sites/default/files/Acromag_Intro_TwoWire_Transmitters_4_20mA_Current_ Loop_904A.pdf

http://www.murata-ps.com/data/meters/dms-an20.pdf

JoeHarris
19-05-2017, 11:03 PM
This is it http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/signal-conditioning/4184859/

I think they are used in industry to remote measure sensors etc over a two wire system like this;-

https://www.acromag.com/sites/default/files/Acromag_Intro_TwoWire_Transmitters_4_20mA_Current_ Loop_904A.pdf

http://www.murata-ps.com/data/meters/dms-an20.pdf

Thanks Clive, I had found it on RS but it still didn't mean a lot!! I have bought a second hand cabinet and it came with a few bits and bobs left inside there were a couple of these which I did not recognise- don't think they will be all that useful! eBay...

driftspin
19-05-2017, 11:52 PM
It is a signal converter, 0-10volts to 4-20mA.


hvac stuff.



Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

routercnc
20-05-2017, 06:27 AM
Good work on the mock up Joe. I did mine the other way around with the on /off immediately after the 24V psu. This was my master control. Then the reset to switch the relay/pilz which switched the contractor. If you have an estop event you are then just jumping between estop switch and reset rather than having an on off in there as well. Both ways work just felt like a better operation flow

Clive S
20-05-2017, 07:22 AM
Hi everyone, I've managed to get a working mockup of the e-stop circuit together... another little video:
https://youtu.be/OUgjcH8JGMs

As always any comments gratefully received!Very nice Vid Joe, If I might make a very small comment for the benefit and clarity of others. Re the switches and the schematic it would be nice to show that they have leds inside.
I realise on the vid you can see that you mentioned them. But as drawn it looks wrong because the leds are not shown on the drawing.

Having said that it is superb and will help a lot of people with the Estop and restart circuit.:applouse:

JoeHarris
20-05-2017, 07:54 AM
Very nice Vid Joe, If I might make a very small comment for the benefit and clarity of others. Re the switches and the schematic it would be nice to show that they have leds inside.
I realise on the vid you can see that you mentioned them. But as drawn it looks wrong because the leds are not shown on the drawing.

Having said that it is superb and will help a lot of people with the Estop and restart circuit.:applouse:

Yes fair point! I realised I had also forgot to draw the contacts on the relay 'switches' too which would have aided clarity. Hope it helps people just to understand what some of these things do. I had never heard of a pilz or a contractor before starting this project so this was a bit of a curve for me. Basic info has been what I've craved from the start!

JoeHarris
24-05-2017, 11:43 PM
Quick question folks. I have bought a huge second hand control box for a bargain price and I'm starting to layout the various components. I am going to keep the 24v cables separate from the mains. Should you keep the 80v cables for the drives separate from the mains too?


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Clive S
25-05-2017, 06:44 AM
Quick question folks. I have bought a huge second hand control box for a bargain price and I'm starting to layout the various components. I am going to keep the 24v cables separate from the mains. Should you keep the 80v cables for the drives separate from the mains too?


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Its always good practise to keep them apart as much as practical. Also I know that you have purchased good quality cable for the mains stuff. Its nice to keep the colours brown and blue as well for 230V and say red and black for the 24Vdc that will help to avoid confusion.

JoeHarris
25-05-2017, 06:46 AM
Its always good practise to keep them apart as much as practical. Also I know that you have purchased good quality cable for the mains stuff. Its nice to keep the colours brown and blue as well for 230V and say red and black for the 24Vdc that will help to avoid confusion.

Thanks Clive

JoeHarris
05-06-2017, 07:50 PM
I have decided to use XLR connectors between the control box and the steppers. I have ordered some 5pin with male for the cable and female for the cabinet. The four cores of my cy will go into pins 2-5 with the shielding braid going into pin 1 like this how to video:
https://youtu.be/89XDGtJzzBc
My question is do you connect the shield as you come into the cabinet or right at the point of connection with the drives? And do you go straight to the cabinet/back plate or run a wire to the star ground. Apologies if this seems basic to some of you!


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Neale
05-06-2017, 09:38 PM
Not saying that this is right, or the only way to do it, but it is working for me...

I use 4-way XLR. CY cable from the motor has its braid soldered to the shield terminal in the XLR plug. Because I don't trust the socket to make a sound electrical connection to the powder-coated cabinet, I run an earth wire inside the cabinet from the earth terminal on each socket to the star earth. Each XLR socket has CY cable to the stepper driver with the shield connected to the socket's earth tag (along with the wire to the star point). I should probably not have daisy-chained the socket earths to each other and then to the star point as each should have had its own wire (probably). I have had no noise issues with my cabinet wiring. At least, not as far as I know.

njhussey
05-06-2017, 10:11 PM
I've got the shield from the cable from the drive (at the terminal end) soldered to an earth cable which goes back to the star and the cable that comes in from the stepper (at the terminal end) has the shield soldered to an earth cable that also goes to the star earth. Again don't know if its correct but works for me so far...

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JoeHarris
05-06-2017, 11:03 PM
Thanks guys for the input, if it works that's good enough for me! [emoji4]. I have done a short video to explain my thoughts on how I'm going to set out the control cabinet and would be grateful of any comments before I start screwing things down...

https://youtu.be/0mJ4v-u51Ew


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JoeHarris
05-06-2017, 11:21 PM
Thanks guys for the input, if it works that's good enough for me! [emoji4]. I have done a short video to explain my thoughts on how I'm going to set out the control cabinet and would be grateful of any comments before I start screwing things down...

https://youtu.be/0mJ4v-u51Ew


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Btw not sure why I said about 24v power going to drives. It doesn't.

routercnc
06-06-2017, 12:42 PM
Layout looks OK to me - I've only made one proper control box so far but I went through the same logic as you and it works OK.

Regarding one of your earlier comments - I decided against XLR connectors between the steppers and the control box and wired them direct to the drivers. Where the cables entered the control box there should be a strain relief gland then the outer braiding was twisted and soldered to an earth wire which went off to the star earth point on the DIN rail. The soldered joint was heat shrinked and looked quite neat. I think it was Dean who showed how he does it and I copied that.

The direct vs plug-in question comes down to whether it is actually of much benefit to be able to plug/unplug the motors from the control box and how often you would want to do that. There is the possibility of signal quality problems at the connector / poor connection over time - I understand that loosing the connection momentarily between driver and stepper whilst the are running can upset or damage the drivers for example. If you hard wire them and really want to disconnect a motor it is only a few minutes to loosen some screw terminals and feed the cable out.

Neale
06-06-2017, 02:14 PM
I agree that in an ideal world, steppers would be hard-wired in one cable run back to the drivers. I have used XLR because I had originally wired the steppers back to a DIN terminal rail and it was a right pain to wire them in each time that the box came off the machine while I was building and testing. I had the connectors available from my previous machine so chose to use them. I'll probable unplug them all soon and dose them with a bit of switch-cleaner to try to keep them sweet.

You have a rather larger cabinet than I am using. Good idea! Mine is a bit cramped (hence the wiring/unwiring problem mentioned) and it would have been good to have had a bit more space. As it turned out, my control box just fits the available space on the underframe of the router so it came right in the end. The overall layout you are proposing looks fine to me. In particular, signal wires from the IP/M (good choice!) will run down the opposite side of the cabinet from mains wiring, and are also well away from the stepper cables. Since you have gone to the expense of the IP/M, I'm assuming that you will be using differential signal wires between IP/M and drivers? If you can get a bit of UTP cable, the twisted pairs in that make good interconnects for this purpose.

On the subject of wiring, are you planning to use wiring/bootlace ferrules? I came across these, fortunately shortly before I started putting my control box together, when someone here posted a link to a good offer on eBay or somesuch. You can get the crimp tool kits from AliExpress fairly cheaply (something like this (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mixed-1065-Piece-wire-Ferrules-Kit-0-25-6mm2-wire-Ferrule-Crimper-tool/32678261670.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.41.6nPyCn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10 065_10151_10130_10068_5010013_10136_10137_10060_10 138_10155_10062_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_ 303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_101 07_10050_10142_10051_5030014_10084_10083_10080_100 82_10081_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_1 0182_10184_10078_10079_10073_10123_10189_142,searc hweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_3&btsid=db30a524-b59b-47d5-bdee-39c7181dd554&algo_expid=53d24e4d-2f26-4bfc-a169-83a9b4496602-5&algo_pvid=53d24e4d-2f26-4bfc-a169-83a9b4496602)). They make wiring easier and safer - no loose strands of wire waiting to short on neighbouring terminals, better clamping in screw terminals, etc.

It's all coming together - good luck with the wiring!

JoeHarris
06-06-2017, 02:20 PM
Thanks Guys. Yes I have some bootlace ferrules - used them on the power supply and they were great. Twisted pair sounds like a good idea although I hadn't thought of that tbh. I had intended to use some of the trirated cable. I have the connectors on order now so will probably use them but keep the cy a bit long so I can hard wire them if I have any problems. I've got 50m of cy so should have enough!!


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JoeHarris
15-06-2017, 01:40 PM
Do you guys just use cy cable between the spindle and the VFD? My cyc is 1mm2 is that going to be enough?


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Clive S
15-06-2017, 02:27 PM
Do you guys just use cy cable between the spindle and the VFD? My cyc is 1mm2 is that going to be enough?


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Yes 1mm is enough that is rated about 11A and your 2.2kw is over 3 cables just one point if you are using a plug as normal on the spindle the make sure you fit a strain releaf on the cable so as not to let the cable move in the plug. If the plug comes loose or a cable breaks the vfd will go bang.:nightmare:

JoeHarris
15-06-2017, 02:55 PM
Yes 1mm is enough that is rated about 11A and your 2.2kw is over 3 cables just one point if you are using a plug as normal on the spindle the make sure you fit a strain releaf on the cable so as not to let the cable move in the plug. If the plug comes loose or a cable breaks the vfd will go bang.:nightmare:

Thanks Clive - I don't want anything going bang!!

JoeHarris
23-06-2017, 09:05 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/cdcca78138caec390084bb937eb28cfe.png

I have made a small amount of progress on the control panel and finally ordered the drivers...

https://youtu.be/hwv93Pd181U

routercnc
24-06-2017, 10:19 AM
Nice work Joe. You are doing all the right things and asking yourself the right kind of questions. Keep working through it and you'll have a box you can be proud of. Importantly you will be able to fault find or modify at a later date as you have kept it neat and have a wiring diagram to refer back to when you've forgotten what you did. I wish I had put wiring number tags on my cables and put labels on my diagram - something to think about

JoeHarris
24-06-2017, 12:11 PM
Nice work Joe. You are doing all the right things and asking yourself the right kind of questions. Keep working through it and you'll have a box you can be proud of. Importantly you will be able to fault find or modify at a later date as you have kept it neat and have a wiring diagram to refer back to when you've forgotten what you did. I wish I had put wiring number tags on my cables and put labels on my diagram - something to think about

Thanks and yes I'll think about the labels, I have various colours too which should help...

Clive S
24-06-2017, 02:24 PM
As usual Joe you don't disappoint it a big credit to you:applouse:

JoeHarris
27-06-2017, 06:55 PM
Mains power distribution in the control box is pretty much finished:


https://youtu.be/sCbZAM9jLQc

Clive S
27-06-2017, 07:05 PM
Mains power distribution in the control box is pretty much finished:
https://youtu.be/sCbZAM9jLQc

Joe did I spot a fuse in the neutral!! if so I would take it out. You make it look so easy.

Lee Roberts
27-06-2017, 07:26 PM
Looking sweet Joe,

Just so you know the correct format for your videos to show "in post" is like this:



https://youtu.be/sCbZAM9jLQc

However your not at all obliged to do anything if you prefer to just drop the link :beer:

JoeHarris
27-06-2017, 07:34 PM
Looking sweet Joe,

Just so you know the correct format for your videos to show "in post" is like this:



However your not at all obliged to do anything if you prefer to just drop the link :beer:

Thanks Lee, I posted on Tapatalk and not sure how you do that on there?

JoeHarris
27-06-2017, 07:36 PM
Joe did I spot a fuse in the neutral!! if so I would take it out. You make it look so easy.

Thanks Clive, I am using the double pole fuse holders that came with my cabinet but not using two fuses. Some pictures: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/9f0992ba3f614302d7671574ef6d3f58.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/f74272474a980b7e044ff5702ee95280.jpg

Clive S
27-06-2017, 10:06 PM
Ok Joe that's fine but I had to pick it up because it is dangerous to fuse the _ve Good man.:applouse:

Lee Roberts
28-06-2017, 09:52 AM
Thanks Lee, I posted on Tapatalk and not sure how you do that on there?

You would need to insert a URL rather than paste just the link, then once its inserted change [url] to [video]...

Dont bother though Joe as its really not that big an issue :)

JoeHarris
29-06-2017, 05:56 PM
Panel progress... estop working nicely (Despite temporarily shorting out the 24v supply and wondering what the squealing noise was..!) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170629/fe0dd811ee31667feda9374606cc03a2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170629/0f32ee71577f2d15062d9374b7358008.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170629/c2c7022ba03596a58d7980aff446b34e.jpg

Lee Roberts
29-06-2017, 06:03 PM
Panel progress... estop working nicely (Despite temporarily shorting out the 24v supply and wondering what the squealing noise was..!)

Looks good, are you sure you've not done this before? Shorting out??? Do tell???

JoeHarris
29-06-2017, 07:33 PM
Looks good, are you sure you've not done this before? Shorting out??? Do tell???

I connected the wires for the panel estop to the 24v fault indicator and the wires for the indicator to the estop meaning the 24 supply was just pumping current to itself. It took me a while to figure out what I had done wrong and it made a funny noise each time I switched it on to check if I had fixed it but it still seems to work! Whoops [emoji51]

JoeHarris
29-06-2017, 07:35 PM
Looks good, are you sure you've not done this before? Shorting out??? Do tell???

Oh and no, never before but I am enjoying it! Been watching other peoples builds on this forum for years though...

Lee Roberts
29-06-2017, 09:20 PM
Oh and no, never before but I am enjoying it! Been watching other peoples builds on this forum for years though...

Hehe I know that flavor!, good job it was only 24v then!

JoeHarris
10-07-2017, 11:32 PM
Video showing the installation of my panel controls:

https://youtu.be/bgKEZsiwfB0

JoeHarris
10-07-2017, 11:34 PM
And one showing the installation of the cabinet fans... this job sucked!


https://youtu.be/jJDP88FGMns

mekanik
11-07-2017, 08:38 AM
Hi Joe
Both links not working for me ?
Mike

JoeHarris
11-07-2017, 07:59 PM
Hi Joe
Both links not working for me ?
Mike

Oh. Try these...

https://youtu.be/bgKEZsiwfB0
https://youtu.be/jJDP88FGMns

JoeHarris
11-07-2017, 10:47 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/e324de5bdf34e53a6786e9c978e78393.jpg

My drives have arrived and I have wired up the power supply to them (see photo) any reason why I shouldn't power them up with nothing else connected ??

Clive S
11-07-2017, 11:36 PM
My drives have arrived and I have wired up the power supply to them (see photo) any reason why I shouldn't power them up with nothing else connected ??If it makes you happy Joe:beer:

JoeHarris
11-07-2017, 11:45 PM
If it makes you happy Joe:beer:

Ha! Can't afford the controller yet so it will have to!