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cropwell
13-07-2012, 10:41 AM
Hi,

I have just replaced the motherboard memory and processor on my milling computer. The old one was a Duron 1300 with 256Mb memory. It ran OK, but had the habit of freezing at the worst moment (half way through a milling run). I run Mach3.

The new Mobo has a faster (non clockwork) processor and 512Mb memory. Not state of the art, but good enough to do the job, and hopefuly more reliable. I am using the same parallel port card, a NetMos 9815.

Ihave re-installed Windows XP (repair) put in all the drivers and SP2 & SP3. Reinstalled Mach3 and checked all the ports and pins settings and I am using my normal xml file that was OK before.

Now the problem.......

Everything looks fine, all the drivers are there, but the X,Y and Z axes (axises ?) run very slowly and jerkily (judder) when I try to jog them. I have tried all different settings for kernel speed and pulse width, but nowt does owt better.

I need help as to what might be wrong. I am now messing about with motor tuning and I can get slower and smoother, but nowhere near as good as with the original computer.

Ideas and Help VERY welcome.

Cheers,

Rob

cropwell
13-07-2012, 03:40 PM
SORTED ! - I removed and reinstalled the Mach3 pulsing engine drivers and now it is as smooth as the proverbial....

Cheers

Rob

cropwell
13-07-2012, 03:41 PM
PS - almost a RTFM error

Web Goblin
13-07-2012, 03:52 PM
Reading the manual takes all the fun out of it.

cropwell
13-07-2012, 04:22 PM
DidI speak too soon ? The problem is back again. One thing that the brief episode of normal working showed me is that the electronics are all good.

Now I revert to the status of Seeking Advice.

Rob

Web Goblin
13-07-2012, 04:27 PM
Seeing as you have just installed the OS has it done any updates after you installed the drivers? Reinstall them again and see what happens.

bobc
13-07-2012, 04:39 PM
If you have a new mobo, you might need to set the parallel port mode in the BIOS. Not sure what it should be... maybe "EPP" or something.

Another thing is that the mother board might need chipset drivers, to correctly handle PCI interfaces. I think otherwise it might default to safe/slow operation.

There are many things... but that's where I would start.

JAZZCNC
13-07-2012, 06:05 PM
DidI speak too soon ? The problem is back again. One thing that the brief episode of normal working showed me is that the electronics are all good.

Don't be so sure.? . . It could easily be a lose or bad connection causing intermitant problems or wire thats breaking but not yet broke fully.? Double and triple check the wires/connections before doing anything else.! . . Esp the PP cable.

If the PC has quick time on then take it off.
Disable any screen savers or energy saving features. If any of the electrics, like BOB etc use USB then it needs setting so windows doesn't automaticly turn it off after a period of inactivity. This is often a cause of USB crashing machine but Mach3 getting the blame.!!
Disable any programs that automaticly check for updates IE: Windows update. Adobe products are a pain for this and I wont have any on my computer that runs machine.

cropwell
13-07-2012, 07:11 PM
Don't be so sure.? . . It could easily be a lose or bad connection causing intermitant problems or wire thats breaking but not yet broke fully.? Double and triple check the wires/connections before doing anything else.! . . Esp the PP cable.

If the PC has quick time on then take it off.
Disable any screen savers or energy saving features. If any of the electrics, like BOB etc use USB then it needs setting so windows doesn't automaticly turn it off after a period of inactivity. This is often a cause of USB crashing machine but Mach3 getting the blame.!!
Disable any programs that automaticly check for updates IE: Windows update. Adobe products are a pain for this and I wont have any on my computer that runs machine.
Done all that, completely reinstalled Mach3, used Driver Test.exe, got Goldilocks results, too slow, too fast, and just right. Smooths out as the motor velocity setting is lowered, but too slow to use, and still sounds poorly.

Swarfing
13-07-2012, 07:55 PM
check that hyper threading is not on if it has it in the bios. look for lapic in there too and switch it off, if all else fails give us the details of the board. Power saving must be switched off on everything from the bios and the OPS. You say you have 512 of ram? change the settings so that windows looks after your virtual memory. Put some more ram in as well if you can and update to SP3 if you have not?

JAZZCNC
13-07-2012, 08:22 PM
You say you have 512 of ram?

Didn't see this bit.!! . . . . This will be big problem.! I had a machine other week doing silly things and turned out to be low memory on PC.!!

JAZZCNC
13-07-2012, 08:28 PM
Done all that, completely reinstalled Mach3, used Driver Test.exe, got Goldilocks results, too slow, too fast, and just right. Smooths out as the motor velocity setting is lowered, but too slow to use, and still sounds poorly.

When you re-installed Mach did you use your existing XML or make a complete new setup.?

Clusting straws a little but if you used existing XML it could be corrupted so for sake of 10mins it may be worth re-entering the settings into a new profile just for elimination purposes.?

Jonathan
13-07-2012, 08:30 PM
Didn't see this bit.!! . . . . This will be big problem.! I had a machine other week doing silly things and turned out to be low memory on PC.!!

The previous computer I used for CNC had 512Mb and it was poor. The one I currently use has 1Gb, not much by today's standards but still works fine... that is until I switched it on 5 minutes ago and got this:

6344

Sigh...

JAZZCNC
13-07-2012, 08:33 PM
that is until I switched it on 5 minutes ago and got this:

6344

Sigh...

Bet it's Damp in Monitor.!! . . I've had it in the past. Take in house and leave next to Rad for a few hours.!!

Jonathan
13-07-2012, 09:31 PM
Bet it's Damp in Monitor.!!

Lucky you didn't bet - workshop has dehumidifier!

cropwell
13-07-2012, 11:22 PM
Hi,
Did all that and it went smooth for about 10seconds. The board is a Gigabyte GA-7VM266 and the processor is an Athlon 1.8Gig. Compared with the 1.3 Duron that it was on before. That was fine for a couple of months then it started hanging even in loading XP.

It got gradually worse and then became too unreliable to use.

I have disabled anything in the Bios I don't need. LAN, Sound,Games port and MIDI port. The BoB runs on a PCI card with 2 printer ports. All the Board drivers have been (correctly?) installed and there are no yellow question marks in the device manager.

When I switch on and go into Mach3 all is fine for a short time, then it starts to judder. Could the problem be in the BoB even ? I can't believe that all three stepper drivers have gone faulty at the same time.


I think I am going to leave this now till Sunday and then I might do a clean install of Windows and reload the software.

I am just getting a bit boggled with this.

cropwell
13-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Could be a subliminal message in an autostereogram :smile:

Swarfing
14-07-2012, 12:43 AM
It sounds like you have done that already and it is still not working though? One thing you could try is to move the address the Par ports are on to different address, don't forget to let mach3 know what they are. Also try moving the card to another slot n the MB?

cropwell
14-07-2012, 11:49 AM
I've done all that. I think the only way forward is a clean install on a fresh disk. The thing that is really bugging me is that it works fine for half a minute after reboot then starts the judders. It sounds like a bearing has gone.
I have tried disabling every thing I don't need like ctmon.exe and crss.exe, but nothing makes it any good.

blackburn mark
14-07-2012, 12:48 PM
The previous computer I used for CNC had 512Mb and it was poor. The one I currently use has 1Gb, not much by today's standards but still works fine... that is until I switched it on 5 minutes ago and got this:

6344

Sigh...

iv had a few of those... on really hot days my (cnc) atom motherboard goes a bit lala and looks like that (have to switch off and let it cool.. needs a couple more fans under there)

if you have a NVIDIA graphics card its likley you need to bake it (re-flow)

gas mark 6 for ten minutes if i remember correctly... i use a small pen type blow torch on mine with a thermocouple sat on the chip (i isolate the chip with foil tape)
saves having to strip all the plastics off for the oven
i can get my card out, re-flow it and back in in half an hour now (im on my third time in a couple of years)

Swarfing
14-07-2012, 12:52 PM
See if you can find a port analyser/ monitor off the net and look at the latency. If it dips when you see the juddering then you know it is the install and not the hardware. i would blame windows every time regardless if the hardware was naff :-)

If it is the install then i should imagine something is taking priority over the card causing the latency issues. Investigating the software cost nothing before you spend any more on hardware. See if there is a newer driver for the card?

Jonathan
14-07-2012, 12:57 PM
I just hit the reset button a few times and it booted. Lots and lots of hard disk errors displayed, but looks like Ubuntu is above such things as it's working just fine. I'll sort it out at some point... well that's what I keep thinking.

blackburn mark
14-07-2012, 01:03 PM
well that's what I keep thinking.

ha :) i suffer from that one... if a kick or a slap fixes it then a kick or a slap it is

Mad Professor
14-07-2012, 05:02 PM
I had a problem something like that months ago, in the end I gave up trying to find the problem and brought an ESS.

Here are my related posts.

DPC spikes stalling stepper motors (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/3876-DPC-spikes-stalling-stepper-motors).
and
Moschip Semiconductor MCS9865 Printer Port Cards (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/4527-Moschip-Semiconductor-MCS9865-Printer-Port-Cards).

Hope you get your problem sorted.

cropwell
15-07-2012, 11:07 AM
Just remember - If it can't be fixed with a hammer - it's probably electrical :distant:

cropwell
15-07-2012, 11:46 AM
My old motherboard worked fine for about three months, then it started freezing and spoiled a couple of pieces of work. The problem gradually got worse until eventually Windows would not boot. At that point I decided another MoBo might be a solution, so I got one for free from a mate who runs a PC repair business. Board, memory and processor had been in a customer's machine before he upgraded and AFAIK working as files and settings were transferred from it.

In my working life as a freelance IBM Assembler programmer,I had a few occasions where the client had a problem, didn't know the cause and expected me to fix it within his timescale. In this case I am my own client, I can understand the frustrations and don't have the pressures.

I have done a clean install of XP pro up to SP3 reinstalled Mach3 and set it up to use the native LPT1 without the PP board in the machine. PROBLEM PERSISTS :livid:

My next step is to try another computer, I have one spare.

The only up-side of the issue is that I am saving money by not breaking cutters. Is there a market for 3.17mm diameter TC rods about 25mm long ?

Jonathan
15-07-2012, 12:25 PM
I have done a clean install of XP pro up to SP3 reinstalled Mach3 and set it up to use the native LPT1

Perhaps try LinuxCNC? Even if you don't want to use it in the long term, if it works you'll know it's a software problem.


The only up-side of the issue is that I am saving money by not breaking cutters. Is there a market for 3.17mm diameter TC rods about 25mm long ?

I occasionally use the bench grinder to turn them into V-cutters, which are fine for simple PCBs. I've got enough for now though!

John S
15-07-2012, 12:32 PM
[QUOTE=cropwell;32713 Is there a market for 3.17mm diameter TC rods about 25mm long ?[/QUOTE]

pop over one night with a packet of hob nobs and we'll bang them on the T&C grinder and make them into proper engraving cutters.
Not a Tuesday night, that's pub night, bastard of a job but someone has to do it. :tan:

cropwell
15-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I am not against Linux, but I didn't know there was a CNC flavoured one. I have got Ubuntu, so I will load that and try it. However, I am going to try one more time to use Uncle Bill's operating system on another computer.

Jonathan
15-07-2012, 04:40 PM
pop over one night with a packet of hob nobs and we'll bang them on the T&C grinder and make them into proper engraving cutters.

Two packets surely as they're half price at Sainsbury's (http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/mcvitie-s-hob-nobs-300g-was-1-09-now-54p-sainsburys-1257749)!


I have got Ubuntu, so I will load that and try it.

Just to be clear you have to use the version specified on the LinuxCNC site, else it almost certainly wont work.

John S
15-07-2012, 06:20 PM
Just to be clear you have to use the version specified on the LinuxCNC site, else it almost certainly wont work.

don't fooking work anyway unless you are a geek or have hairs for a beard.

cropwell
19-07-2012, 10:36 PM
Well tonight I got the machine jogging smoothly.
Possible fixing agent was make port LPT2 on PCI board to operate as EPP.
Now I have to repair all the damage done by re-install, set up my tool height macro and get back to where I should have been before the old computer started hanging and get on with what I wanted to do a week ago.

Thanks for all who have helped me.

Rob

And a packet of HobNobs for the bloke that said the magic words that fixed it 'ECP won't work'.

cropwell
29-07-2012, 10:24 PM
I have just (this weekend) got my machine up and running with a revamped control box and cables cut and re-plugged to correct lengths. Set up the coolant control to switch on a little air pump (35litres/min), just right to clear cutting debris.

So I started to cut a sign for a friends daughter's play house - and then the computer froze 2 mins into the job. So i rebooted the computer, turned over the wood and started again. Ths time it froze after 10 mins. So i rebooted the computer, but it was dead.

The common factor in all these computer problems is AMD. My two Intel based machines have been rock solid reliable. So from my experience AMD processors do not deliver reliability.

I am going to buy a new Mobo and processor and start again. I just hope that the Hard Drive with all my system, programs and work is not affected. That would really piss me off. Not that I am a tad annoyed at the moment:dispirited:.

By the way , if you look up the definition of a 'tad' you will find it is 0.00000265 of an inch (+/- a foot). As a unit of torque it is expressed in dynes per square fortnight.

Roll on the revolution !

Cheers, I am going for a bottle of 'Spitfire'

Rob

John S
30-07-2012, 01:05 AM
Cheers, I am going for a bottle of 'Spitfire'

Rob

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Spitfire%209.jpg

mocha
30-07-2012, 04:29 PM
http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Spitfire%209.jpg

ROFL, if you like that, you'll love this.

http://www.spitfireale.co.uk/spitfire-adverts/

cropwell
30-07-2012, 07:47 PM
Would you think this computer thing couldn't get more silly - well it has. I got a new mobo and various other bits and went back to my friends shop in Nottingham (PC Doctor) and we put the system together to find it dead, not even a beep. So we tried other processors and memory combinations but still no life. Then we looked at the board - it had a bent 'pin' on the Processor socket and it looked like it was factory bent.
So I went back to Web Systems in Bulwell and showed them the faulty board and they insisted that they would fix it, so I waited for a long time with nowhere to sit (I have a mobility problem) and they eventually conceded and replaced the board. Now here's the interesting bit - they wanted all the accessories from the new board, so they were still in their packets and sellable (to the next dumb punter ?).

They kept me waiting so long that PC Doctor had shut shop for the day and I have to go back tomorrow to continue the farce......

cropwell
01-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Let's hope this farce is over. I am fed up of hiding in wardrobes with my trousers round my ankles :)

The machine was up and running yesterday with only a minor fault to find and fix ( X axis home sensor had a broken solder joint in the control box. It just had to be the most difficult to get to.

Frau Townshend did not find the Spitfire ads amusing, but I did.

TTFN

mocha
01-08-2012, 05:35 PM
I am fed up of hiding in wardrobes with my trousers round my ankles :)

snip
TTFN


er, why is your machine in the wardrobe?

:nevreness::hororr:

cropwell
04-08-2012, 02:34 PM
To stop Baron Rix finding it. You may be too young to know about the Whitehall Farces, but try googling it anyway.

mocha
04-08-2012, 05:12 PM
No, not too young to remember that, and a band leader doing rather well and becoming head of the BBC! lol. We were quite disappointed to let go our lounge orchestra when the wireless took off.

I remember Brian Rix, (didn't know about the Baron part). But of course now you mention it, farce, wardrobe and trousers around the ankles... should have guessed that one!

cropwell
04-08-2012, 06:17 PM
I am happy to report that the computer now seems to be settled in its task. with a comfy new Intel based board. I actually got a piece of work done in one cut without spoiling it by the machine freezing.

Onwards and Sideways......
Rob

irving2008
04-08-2012, 11:54 PM
Never bought anything with an AMD processor... always stuck with Intel... especially when its mission critical... last thing I bought (fortunately not with my own money lol) was a pair of 4-CPU 10core blades (40 cores in all) for a big database... read some disturbing reports of issues with the 12core Opteron CPUs so stuck with the Intel 10core ones...

Shinobiwan
15-08-2012, 11:39 AM
Never bought anything with an AMD processor... always stuck with Intel... especially when its mission critical... last thing I bought (fortunately not with my own money lol) was a pair of 4-CPU 10core blades (40 cores in all) for a big database... read some disturbing reports of issues with the 12core Opteron CPUs so stuck with the Intel 10core ones...

That's what I could do with for rendering! Stuck with 8 cores at 4Ghz and its sloooowww.

Bet its the price of a new car though so maybe not.

irving2008
15-08-2012, 12:41 PM
That's what I could do with for rendering! Stuck with 8 cores at 4Ghz and its sloooowww.

Bet its the price of a new car though so maybe not.

Ummm arguably a tad more... configured blades with 4 x 10core, 2.26GHz CPU, 512Gb of RAM, 2 x 10Gb network, 2 x 8Gb FibreChannel SAN connect, 4Gb SDHC boot card = 12,000 each approx :) Then theres the 55k worth of database software and the 70k of 24Tb of RAID6 SAN disc array on top :) but it goes like the proverbial muck off a shovel :)

boldford
15-08-2012, 07:00 PM
Ummm arguably a tad more... configured blades with 4 x 10core, 2.26GHz CPU, 512Gb of RAM, 2 x 10Gb network, 2 x 8Gb FibreChannel SAN connect, 4Gb SDHC boot card = 12,000 each approx :) Then theres the 55k worth of database software and the 70k of 24Tb of RAID6 SAN disc array on top :) but it goes like the proverbial muck off a shovel :)Any good for Tetris? :playful:

Jonathan
15-08-2012, 07:05 PM
Any good for Tetris? :playful:

Would be for this guy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdLESxRNylI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdLESxRNylI)