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wilfy
15-08-2012, 08:53 PM
i'm after a mig welder... but i'm seeing gasless and gas welders..

now i've used a gas mig welder before and i've used an arc welder loads so i'm convinced which one i want.. but i just dont understand the difference between a mig with or without gas.

can anyone shed some light.. and also tell me if i will get the mig i want for around 120 new or used?

irving2008
15-08-2012, 09:02 PM
As I understand it (and I could be wrong) 'with gas' uses an inert gas feed through a pipe to shield the plasma and uncoated filler wire, while the 'without gas' ones use a coated filler wire that generates its own inert gas shield. Some (all?) 'with gas' welders can be used with coated filler wire with the gas turned off so you get the best of both worlds. I'm not entirely sure which, but one is better for outdoor windy conditions (I'm guessing the 'without gas/coated filler' approach). Obviously the coated filler is more expensive than the uncoated, but then the gas isnt free either... not sure which is cheaper to run.

wilfy
16-08-2012, 01:11 AM
box section to make benches with for my workshop to mount mdf to. and in time box section again to make the frame of my cnc router

these are the only things i can think of but exhaust repairs and this sort of thing certainly spring to mind

m_c
16-08-2012, 02:02 AM
Jonathan is right, however all normal mild steel wire is coated (usually copper), otherwise it would just rust.

The difference is gasless wire is flux cored, and is basically the same as arc welding, without the need to stop and change rods. The main drawback with gasless is cleanup, and the wire is more expensive. On the flip side, gas has no cleanup, wire is cheaper, however gas is expensive, especially if you have to resort to disposable bottles.

You should be able to pick up a mig welder for 120 secondhand, but you'll probably struggle to get one new for that much. The main thing you need to know is what thickness of metal you're planning on welding. 90A will struggle to do anything above 3-4mm, and 120A reaches it limit around 6-7mm. You can weld thicker, however it involves spray transfer, which gasless won't do, and it really abuses torches (I have been known to set torches on fire in the past!), and works the welder hard.

Mig welders are not exactly complicated machines, and the only main drawback with cheaper ones is lack of duty cycle, which if you're only using occasionally isn't a major issue, however you need to make sure it has enough amps to weld what you want it to.



Personally, if you're not planning on doing any thin work (i.e. below 1-2mm), I'd consider an ARC Inverter, as the DC supply makes stick welding far easier. My spontaneous ebay buy of a DC TIG inverter is one of the best things I done. I originally bought it to try TIG welding, however once I realised how easy it made arc welding, the old buzz box hasn't moved for years, and I've done jobs I wouldn't of touched otherwise (last one was a JCB bucket repair which needed low hydrogen rods due to them being made of sprung steel). Mine isn't a cheap one though, however that's due to all the TIG options it's got (High Frequency, adjustable ramp times, post gas time, current switching on button presses) and they're not used for arc welding as you only need a current setting.

irving2008
16-08-2012, 08:23 AM
Jonathan? :(

John S
16-08-2012, 10:11 AM
Jonathan? :(

He's still looking for that extra nail.................

m_c
16-08-2012, 11:36 AM
Oops. Sorry Irving!
I'll blame that on lack of sleep, and all you moderator types having the same pics.

wilfy
16-08-2012, 01:16 PM
gutted i'd have gone for that one but bristol is a good 3-4 hour drive for me and wouldnt be worth it.. thanks for all the input guys, i'll keep looking, i think for now i'll just knock up some timber frames for the benches just so i can start cleaning the place up

wilfy
16-08-2012, 09:32 PM
i just bought this
CLARKE 130 E MIG WELDER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261081108211?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_507wt_1397)


now aslong as it just needs wire and a gas bottle i think it's a pretty good price .... if however it's missing anything else like the feed unit i'll be pissed....


has anyone got any pictures of what the inside of the welder should look like just so i know i'm not buying an empty box please and also what does the gas reg look like?

Web Goblin
16-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Damn I should have looked in on this thread earlier. I have a Sterling Mig161, large gas bottle, wire, stainless wire, regulator and gas hose. You wouldnt have got it for that price though:friendly_wink:
Right, the one you have bought, the torches on these things are .... well crap! I have had a couple of them in at work to repair and the ones I have seen have had plastic liners in them which wear very quickly. If you can change this for a metal liner then I would do that. Inside the machine you will find a spindle that the reel of wire sits on, make sure this is not damaged or hanging off. Have a look at the drive rollers and mechanism. There shouldnt be too much play in them and shouldnt really have much wear unless it has been used a hell of a lot.
I'm not sure what the duty cycle of this machine is so dont know much you get out of it.

graham4877
17-08-2012, 02:59 PM
stay away from glassless, the best mig about for not alot of money is a clarke mig welders and you can buy them cheaper on the bay,, you can buy a large bottle on ebay as well.. as a welder myself i find them just the same as i did at work, well not as good speck wize but can still put out a canny weld. if you set them up right..

have you welded before???

if you have i'd just get a stick welder, then once you can weld with it you can weld with anything,, well TIgs a new story.. plus with a stick you'l save some and you'l get alot more amps for your money, meaning less time dressing and prep work!

JAZZCNC
17-08-2012, 04:08 PM
Right, the one you have bought, the torches on these things are .... well crap! I have had a couple of them in at work to repair and the ones I have seen have had plastic liners in them which wear very quickly.

Man those must be Crap because I've got the industrial version Clark Mig and the torch on these are crap.!!

Stick welder would have been far cheaper and actually with decent quality rods far easier for welding box section.

Setting the Mig up is key and if not done before will take a bit of time.! . . When set right it will make you hungry.?? . . . . It should sound like Crackling bacon. . .Lol
If just using plain C/02 (Pub gas) then expect it to spit and fart. Gas makes big difference and if you can get Argo-shield then it makes for far better welding.

graham4877
17-08-2012, 06:07 PM
Man those must be Crap because I've got the industrial version Clark Mig and the torch on these are crap.!!

Stick welder would have been far cheaper and actually with decent quality rods far easier for welding box section.

Setting the Mig up is key and if not done before will take a bit of time.! . . When set right it will make you hungry.?? . . . . It should sound like Crackling bacon. . .Lol
If just using plain C/02 (Pub gas) then expect it to spit and fart. Gas makes big difference and if you can get Argo-shield then it makes for far better welding.

YEp jazz is right,, i fecking heat co2........argon shield every time,nice smooth weld and soun .i've a big bottle. and its still half full got it from work back in 2005 and i'v done /do alot of welding.. you can get an half size bottle of the bay for 115 to your door

If you can only afford one welder i'd go for stick!

graham4877
17-08-2012, 07:52 PM
7 years and youve half a bottle left,lol one place i worked at i used to get through a full size bottle of argon within a week to 10 days but there was a night shift comeing in to and useing my bay,it used to annoy the feck out of me because when ever the lad on nights ran out of gas, it was left to me to replace it first thing in the morning on my shift,wouldnt mind but it was a trek across the factory for a new bottle everytime.
Its the same everywhere mate. just lazy feckers, i'd do a bottle in every week no problem.. say if i had to go in machine shop to do the pins for the buzz bars. which would take any where from a day to 4 days.. and some one came to my bay would be gone within 3 days but i'd come back and the bottle would be empty, gas left open all the time and over night, and they wounder why the place closed down as it went bust.. oh and they don't no how to clean the shroud or how to clean up my bench after them.. I just got sick so went round welding on to their benches , must of left about 50 tacks on one and i mean they were over kill 10mm by 10 mm so it took him a while to grind it off..
problem wth people at home is they have the gas on over kill, you can not even hear the gas on mine, well you can here it kick in but soon as it dropped off you'd think you've no gas!

wilfy
17-08-2012, 08:32 PM
thanks again for all the replies here guys, i picked the welder up today, doesnt look amazing but the feed unit seems to work well and the tip is a little dirty but i've seen tips come in packs of 10 so thats obviously something that is replaced regular.

the only other thing i need is wire, gas and a reg

was this one for the record
CLARKE 130 E MIG WELDER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261081108211?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_507wt_1397)

should i think about replacing anything on it?

graham4877
18-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Here mate
Accessories & Consumables for Hobby MIG Welders - Machine Mart (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/35077DF0-327E-459B-8F01-75487A64BCD6)
Accessories & Consumables for Hobby MIG Welders - Machine Mart (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/35077DF0-327E-459B-8F01-75487A64BCD6)
Clarke Mild Steel Welding Wire 0.6mm 5kg - Machine Mart (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/0-6mm-welding-wire-5kg?da=1&TC=SRC-welding%20wire)

check the liner, get some tips in 0.6,, and 0.8
don't over tighten the wire real clamp, make sure you have it on the right size should have 2 rings on one for .6 and .8

m_c
18-08-2012, 10:37 PM
A quick method for setting the feed roller tension, is if you block the nozzle to stop the wire coming out (bend the end over and hold it with your finger against the tip is enough), the rollers should spin on the wire.

If you set the tension too high, and the nozzle does block (you'll probably do it a lot to start with due to burn back!), you risk ending up with the wire kinking (or a full blown birds nest if you stupid enough to keep holding the trigger!) before it enters the liner at the feed end.