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irving2008
14-09-2012, 08:45 AM
Looking at the floor layout of my new workshop and bemoaning the fact that even with all this new space there isn't room for a 1/4 sheet (4 x 2) router, I suddenly realised that there is in fact wall space.

Which got me thinking...

Why are all 'flat bed' router machines horizontal? What's to stop them being vertical?

That way it would only need a bit over 2 foot wide of wall space.

The only issues I can see are:


the need to take gravity into account. If the y-axis is vertical then only the router head has to be lifted against gravity, so some thought about the design of that is needed;
fixing of the board to be machined, but a good clamping system should do there;
debris will fall onto the lower X-rail so again some thinking there (or put x vertical but then the x-motors have to lift the gantry too).


Has anyone ever seen one done this way?

Mad Professor
14-09-2012, 08:50 AM
Jazzcnc has done this.

Here is his post: http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/router-build-logs/4222-time-go-vertical.html


http://youtu.be/pjJ88n-ynx0

irving2008
14-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Thanks ... must have missed that one... well if its good enough for Jazz... :)

Rogue
14-09-2012, 10:24 AM
I mmust admit to being a little disappointed. I always read his posts with an "autobot" voice in my head, I forgot 'e were northern :joker:

6869

jonnydeen
14-09-2012, 03:36 PM
denford make a vertical router

Denford Product Catalogue - Jan 2012 (http://www.denford.ltd.uk/catalogue/index32.html)

Denford Vertical CNC Router - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbETmYz1prs)

JAZZCNC
14-09-2012, 05:57 PM
I mmust admit to being a little disappointed. I always read his posts with an "autobot" voice in my head, I forgot 'e were northern :joker:

6869

I hate my voice on video I sound gay... Lol . . . . . . Which leads to ask does anyone know a good cheap video editor so I can put text on instead has I have a few I'd like to erase my guy tones on.?

Irving It's the best thing I've done with the machine. Can honestly say it has no down sides only great positives.
My machine Isn't in the ideal position or orientation and if building from scratch to go vertical then it would have a few purpose built features which I've learnt from this one.

Rogue
14-09-2012, 09:52 PM
I hate my voice on video I sound gay... Lol . . . . . . Which leads to ask does anyone know a good cheap video editor so I can put text on instead has I have a few I'd like to erase my guy tones on.?

You're fine don't worry, you always sound strange when you listen to yourself. If memory serves the moviemaker than came with XP did subtitles, not sure what Vista/Win7 might do though. We could always do with more videos, your calendar vid is an inspiration.


Irving It's the best thing I've done with the machine. Can honestly say it has no down sides only great positives.
My machine Isn't in the ideal position or orientation and if building from scratch to go vertical then it would have a few purpose built features which I've learnt from this one.

What changes would you make?

TrickyCNC
15-09-2012, 10:27 PM
The only problem I can think of, is holding parts that are cut clean out. no tabs etc. at best, the parts will fall on the floor, at worst, they will trap the cutter and maybe snap it.

JAZZCNC
15-09-2012, 11:14 PM
The only problem I can think of, is holding parts that are cut clean out. no tabs etc. at best, the parts will fall on the floor, at worst, they will trap the cutter and maybe snap it.

Not a problem at all. It's actually better than when horizontal. When horizontal the cutter will try to fling the part just the same with exactly the same consequences if tool gets trapped. Even when horizontal the required parts need to be held securely other wise it's a lottery if they will be damaged or not. Waste parts can be left lose but it's a lottery to what happens with them, they too can trap tools.
Being vertical the lose part drops away far easier than when in horizontal position and if for any reason it does clash with tool it gets flicked away far easier.
Also because most of the chips etc are falling away then there's virtually no chips clogging the slot again leaving the part to be ejected easier.

Put it this way it's not snapped any yet or even remotely looked like doing and it's cut plenty of Aluminium, Brass, copper, wood, plastic since being on the wall.
The cutters are lasting longer, the finish is better due to virtually no chip re-cutting and I need much less blown air to clear the remaining chips and best of all 90% the chips fall neatly into a bin on the floor.

irving2008
15-09-2012, 11:16 PM
Looking at your video Jazz, the most obvious design change is that blooming great cable chain sticking out sideways now...

JAZZCNC
15-09-2012, 11:21 PM
Looking at your video Jazz, the most obvious design change is that blooming great cable chain sticking out sideways now...

Lol. . yep that would be number one. But the others are mainly to stop chip collection areas so angled surfaces etc and shields/covers in certain areas where you wouldn't when horizontal.

TrickyCNC
15-09-2012, 11:39 PM
Not a problem at all. It's actually better than when horizontal. When horizontal the cutter will try to fling the part just the same with exactly the same consequences if tool gets trapped. Even when horizontal the required parts need to be held securely other wise it's a lottery if they will be damaged or not. Waste parts can be left lose but it's a lottery to what happens with them, they too can trap tools.
Being vertical the lose part drops away far easier than when in horizontal position and if for any reason it does clash with tool it gets flicked away far easier.
Also because most of the chips etc are falling away then there's virtually no chips clogging the slot again leaving the part to be ejected easier.

Put it this way it's not snapped any yet or even remotely looked like doing and it's cut plenty of Aluminium, Brass, copper, wood, plastic since being on the wall.
The cutters are lasting longer, the finish is better due to virtually no chip re-cutting and I need much less blown air to clear the remaining chips and best of all 90% the chips fall neatly into a bin on the floor.

Interesting to here what actually happens in practice.
I only cut wood, so the edges might get dinged falling on the floor. Although I tend to used the 'onion skin' method, and break out the parts after cutting.

I did think about it before I posted, and thought the cutter would be fine most of the time, but the the cut finished under the part, then the part would fall on the cutter bit.

Luckily I've not had any trouble with broken bits yet (I know I shouldn't say that) but I have seen the warnings from the bit suppliers about parts moving when cut free.

JAZZCNC
16-09-2012, 12:08 AM
I only cut wood, so the edges might get dinged falling on the floor. Although I tend to used the 'onion skin' method, and break out the parts after cutting.

I did think about it before I posted, and thought the cutter would be fine most of the time, but the the cut finished under the part, then the part would fall on the cutter bit.


But the trick (no pun) is not to let the wanted part fall lose and like I said that holds true for when horizontal. Yes you can and I have many times held parts by hand when coming to the end of cut so it doesn't get pulled back into the cutter or fall on it but that's just the same when vertical and with either your playing a lottery to the part getting damaged if you don't. When normal cutting then it's not a problem because all is held secure.
The onion skin approach is one I use also in some circumstances but others it's not an option so then other tactics are needed, like double sided tape. (I actually cut a 14x19" 3mm and 100 quids worth of brass plate just held with tape in the vertical . . Scary ASF but worked a treat.!!)
Tabs are good has well along with strategicly placed holes for screws.!!

The falling onto the tool never happens because I control the lead in lead out point and make sure it's on the side or top.!

TrickyCNC
16-09-2012, 08:37 AM
I keep meaning to get some double sided tape to give it a try. I've seen it used by lots of people, so I know it works as you say. spray contact adhesive is another one I heven't tried yet.

JAZZCNC
16-09-2012, 06:26 PM
spray contact adhesive is another one I heven't tried yet.

Works but it's messy.!! . . . . Cheap carpet tape from Wicks works best for me. OR the real good 3M stuff if very expensive material or small area part.

TrickyCNC
16-09-2012, 06:55 PM
Works but it's messy.!! . . . . Cheap carpet tape from Wicks works best for me. OR the real good 3M stuff if very expensive material or small area part.

I'll be using it with wood, so don't want it too sticky that it raises the grain. need to experiment a bit.

WandrinAndy
17-09-2012, 12:13 PM
Looking at the floor layout of my new workshop and bemoaning the fact that even with all this new space there isn't room for a 1/4 sheet (4 x 2) router, I suddenly realised that there is in fact wall space.

Which got me thinking... Why are all 'flat bed' router machines horizontal? What's to stop them being vertical? That way it would only need a bit over 2 foot wide of wall space.

Many Many Thanks for this thread Irving!

With me doing my build in a touring caravan I've constantly been scrunching the width aspect of my design to fit within the available horizontal space so I can still live around it, overlooking that there is plenty of unused vertical space...

And Jazz's thread adds beef and proves the idea, so I'm about to change my design... yet again.

Thanks Guys.

TrickyCNC
17-09-2012, 08:20 PM
I guess if you get a decent Vacuum bed, then you don't have any problems at all ?