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northumbrian
01-11-2012, 10:05 AM
Post number two it might as well be my new baby.

Bought this Hardinge HC off ebay, it runs, but the brake and the power feed are buggered.

It is also, absolutely filthy, which has prompted me reading the Hardinge/Feeler rebuilds on here to do the same. Pull it to pieces and rebuild it properly.

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 01:04 PM
The turret is not an automatic indexer, you have to turn the turret by hand then lock it in place with the handle.
The serial number is on the flat around the spindle lock, and is 1020/1 if I have it correct it may be from the early half of the 1930's

The machine was originally owned by Flight Refuelling Ltd, which make air to air refuelling equipment for military aircraft, I wonder which parts this machine made.
For the last ten years it has been used by a small engineering company in Reading, for small runs of parts.

More pics to follow

BillTodd
01-11-2012, 01:31 PM
The serial number is on the flat around the spindle lock, and is 1020/1 if I have it correct it may be from the early half of the 1930's

I doubt it's that old. HLV's that had a similar hand-wheel speed control and bed-design date from the late 1940's to 1960 when the HLV-H was introduced. I'd guess yours is not older than the mid 1950's and maybe as late as the 1960's.

It looks in pretty good condition for an HC; they tend to have a hard life - I repaired a couple of handles on a pair of late 70's vintage HC's a week or two ago that looked far worse. (The plastic carriage handles had worn right through their spindle - How many time must the carriage been up and down to do that???)

The turret should spin to the next index as the lever is opened - There's a lever and ratchet system under the turret that is either worn, broken or, most likely, gummed-up with congealed coolant.


[edit]

I believe the brake is similar to the HLV-H i.e. a solenoid operated lever with a cork pad onto the motor.

Does the solenoid operate? (you'll hear it go clunk as the motor is powered) Or is there no braking? (replace the cork)

The power feed is the same as my one by the look of it - They're easy enough to fix, if the motor is OK. Check the motor brushes and winding resistances first.



Bill

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 05:44 PM
I am inclined to agree with you, regards the age of the machine... BUT

There are too many "hang on a minute" moments, firstly they're is no ratchet for the turret I have taken plenty of pics and I will upload them as soon as they transferred from the camera.
The two bearings for the turret are ball races, as per later versions if I recall correctly, but the friction surface upon which it rotates, looks to me like bakelite :confusion:

The Brake is as you say, solenoid actuated lever with a cork, and it looks like both solenoid & cork are buggered.

The powerfeed is I believe just the motor, I have had a look in the control box and everything in there looks OK, biggest pot I have ever seen, didn't know they made that big :surprise:

Anyway piccies coming

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 05:57 PM
The Turret before stripping apart.
7268
As you can see no ratchet to rotate the turret

The following pics, stripping down the turret and cleaning up the bits.
7270727172727273

BillTodd
01-11-2012, 06:01 PM
I thought all Hardinge turrets were self indexing, these were made for fast production (I could be wrong) so perhaps there are parts missing???

[edit - having seen your pictures] Oh yes, that looks like it just has a ball-bearing detent


The powerfeed is I believe just the motor, I have had a look in the control box and everything in there looks OK, biggest pot I have ever seen, didn't know they made that big :surprise:

You probably want to hope that it's not the motor :( I doubt they are available from Hardinge for less than an arm & leg and second hand ones from HLV's are almost as rare as originals. Peter Coleman (Yahoo Hardinge group etc.) had to replace his with a three-phase motor (I don't think it was such a huge success)

The 'pot' is a variable transformer or 'variac' - it varies the voltage (rectified to DC) to the armature .


it looks like both solenoid & cork are buggered.

Check the solenoid continuity (it may be just a mechanical problem - It has happened to my HLV-H )

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 06:03 PM
They scrub up quite nicely don't they :adoration:

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 06:10 PM
Looking at the turret I cannot see anywhere a ratchet system could be, it looks very basic indeed.

Here's the Bakelite ring, I don't actually know if Bakelite is still used or not?

BillTodd
01-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Looking at the turret I cannot see anywhere a ratchet system could be
No you're right - On the one's I have seen (later models), it's very obvious.

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 07:13 PM
No you're right - On the one's I have seen (later models), it's very obvious.

Exactly, the manual I downloaded does not match this machine, some bits do but most of it does not.

The carriage and cross slide are different too. Not sure if this one has powerfeed to the cross slide or not.

BillTodd
01-11-2012, 07:28 PM
Is the bed ~5" or ~7" wide? (i.e. HLV width or HLV-H width) Just wondering if the two bed designs,like the HLV's , indicate the major design change (i.e. carriage etc.)

P.S. I notice the carriage motor has been disconnected, which does suggest a motor problem .

northumbrian
01-11-2012, 08:10 PM
The bed is 7", which tallies with a later design change, a la' HLV / HLV-H.

The motor was in the box with the tooling. I'll take a photo of it tomorrow.
Although, after speaking to ZMT services, if it is a new motor, I may have to figure out a whole new way of getting power feed to the carriage.

Do you see what I mean by too many "hang on minute" moments.

northumbrian
02-11-2012, 09:16 AM
I've sent Hardinge an email, I'll follow it up with a phone call at some point.

northumbrian
02-11-2012, 05:47 PM
Got the cross slide & carriage off today, definitely no indexing mechanism.
The cross slide hand wheel is fixed to cross slide, and travel with it. No power feed to the cross slide either, not that I'm that bothered about having power feed to the cross slide, at least if there isn't one it can't be broken!
All the painted surfaces have been stripped ready to be repainted.
Tomorrow I'll have a closer look at the slide surfaces, they appear ok, but better to be sure.

onecut
03-11-2012, 12:06 PM
intresting l like this sort thing amazing how after,you get under the grime, how well these things come back to life,almost smiling.-B

northumbrian
03-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Checked the ways with a straight edge, everything seems to by ok.
The surface of the cross slide stop, had a few dings in them, so I hand scraped them flat so the stops can move freely.

I haven't done any hand scraping for years, my arms are aching now, I'm glad I don't feel I need to the ways.

Just repainting the painted surfaces on the carriage & cross slide

northumbrian
03-11-2012, 05:27 PM
Took the carriage gear box apart...

Apart from the power feed motor not being wired up, the worm gear on the motor is missing.
So even if the motor is ok, it won't drive anything.

northumbrian
09-11-2012, 08:56 AM
Got the brake solenoid off, it's quite loose, but I do get continuity if I wiggle it about a bit.

BillTodd
09-11-2012, 01:10 PM
They are built just like a contactor with everything a little loose and sloppy. Does your solenoid have flying leads or do the connections go straight to the bobbin?

Bill

northumbrian
09-11-2012, 05:44 PM
Straight to the bobbin.

BillTodd
09-11-2012, 07:45 PM
Picture?

Is it possible to re-solder the connection ????

n.rat
16-11-2012, 10:08 PM
I've been rebuilding a British made HC Chucker over the past six months, and your HC looks like an earlier version of the one I bought on Ebay in March 2012. I believe the early models did not have the self-indexing feature to the turret. The Fetham Middlesex address suggests an early machine, as later versions were manufactured in Exeter. However, the operator's manual which came with my machine appears to be for the early model, with front-mounted carriage drive motor and handwheel operated spindle speeder. (like yours). I would happily swap my manual (original) for one appropriate to my chucker, which, I believe, was manufactured in 1980.

northumbrian
17-11-2012, 04:46 PM
I've been talking to ZMT services, the bed plate needs to be reground as it's worn in the middle, so I'll get a new solenoid and get the powerfeed motor done too while I'm at it.

n.rat, I'm interested in a swap, as the manual I have is for the later models. Can you post a pic of the front cover so I can see if it's my HC?

n.rat
17-11-2012, 08:56 PM
northumbrian,

I've tried to attach a couple of photographs of the manual, but the files are too large. There is no date information in the manual, but the UK addess is given as Exeter. The photographs on page three illustrate the Early model HC, with speed control by a handwheel on the front of the cabinet. Also, the cross-slide is much smaller and simpler than the one on my machine.

I had my bed plate reground (top surface only) by Triple T engineering at Shildon. They did an excellent job at reasonable price. One consequence, however, is that I now have a bit of backlash in the carriage rack/handwheel, due to the slight lowering of the carriage relative to the bed-mounted rack. The rack is doweled to the bed casting, so it's difficult to make any adjustment to its location. Backlash is now about 30 thou, as indicated at the dial. This could be compensated by using thicker teflon on the carriage underside.




I've been talking to ZMT services, the bed plate needs to be reground as it's worn in the middle, so I'll get a new solenoid and get the powerfeed motor done too while I'm at it.

n.rat, I'm interested in a swap, as the manual I have is for the later models. Can you post a pic of the front cover so I can see if it's my HC?

northumbrian
18-11-2012, 02:30 PM
Sounds like my machine, I've sent you a pm.

The rack can be adjusted to compensate for the thinner bed plate, I'll post pics of the process when I get to it.

BillTodd
18-11-2012, 02:57 PM
The usual procedure is to make a full bed-sized shim to fit under bed to correct for the re-grind. This keeps the carriage height correct without moving the rack.

Bill

northumbrian
18-11-2012, 04:09 PM
The usual procedure is to make a full bed-sized shim to fit under bed to correct for the re-grind. This keeps the carriage height correct without moving the rack.

Bill

That sounds like an easier way to do it.

I'll take some more pics tonight, when I get a chance, every time I try to go in the workshop to do something on the HC, something else comes up.

Anyway I now have an Aciera F3 mill to fit in the workshop so I "have" to spend sometime in there in order to make room and to "tidy" up (typed for the benefit of SWMBO) :biggrin:

esbro
29-11-2013, 05:53 PM
I've been rebuilding a British made HC Chucker over the past six months, and your HC looks like an earlier version of the one I bought on Ebay in March 2012. I believe the early models did not have the self-indexing feature to the turret. The Fetham Middlesex address suggests an early machine, as later versions were manufactured in Exeter. However, the operator's manual which came with my machine appears to be for the early model, with front-mounted carriage drive motor and handwheel operated spindle speeder. (like yours). I would happily swap my manual (original) for one appropriate to my chucker, which, I believe, was manufactured in 1980.

Hi everyone, I've just joined MYCNCUK. I too have an elderly British made HC - I've owned it for about 15 years and it's still going strong. Mine has the bedstop on a shaft, not bolted to the bed like all the others I've seen. So I guess mine is quite old ?

tico1966
20-02-2017, 12:27 AM
i have a question based on your pictures. my turret has backlash in some stations, how can i adjust any backlash. adjustments or rebuild.

esbro
21-02-2017, 11:07 AM
i have a question based on your pictures. my turret has backlash in some stations, how can i adjust any backlash. adjustments or rebuild.

Hi, I have just sold my HC, but thanks for your question.
From what you ask, it seems that the backlash is located at the small pads on the turret.
If I remember correctly, these pads are adjustable by screwing them in or out. There may be a small grub screw to stop the pad from screwing itself out.
I would make the adjustment at mid-point on the turret-lock taper.
I hope this helps. .... Steve