Censorship.!! . . . Kills forums

[JAZZCNC]

OK I'm pissed off.!! My pet hate is Censorship and it's happening again with Gestapo thread policing.

Over in this Thread . . . http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/g-code-corner/5317-g-code-camshaft-4th-axis.html . . . both M.C and I posted with comments on John S not being around anymore. Nothing Of what I posted was out of Order and IMO neither did M.C and it's FACT John S hasn't been around since he pointed out a valid point in a thread http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/feedback-suggestions/5094-exception-post.html#post35687 and was chastised for it (Wrongly IMO) so took exception and hasn't been back since and very much doubt will be again.

LEE I've seen your comments on the plans for this forum and other forums but let me ask this question (That John S ounce said to me) . . . How the hell do you plan to do that with less than 20 regular posters and even fewer Experienced one's (18 now.!!)

This Forum is only has good has it's REGULAR and EXPERIENCED posters and if we are going to be treated with such disrespect then I'm having no further part in it.!!

So sorry folks from now on I will be taking a leaf from John S book.!!

Those that need advice can PM me I'll still reply and those that Know my email or phone number your still welcome anytime but I won't be commenting on any threads or builds. . . That's what Censorships brings.!!

Happy CNC'ing

[wilfy]

and if we lose the regulars/experienced like jazz then whats the point in new guys like myself joining the forum?
as a new member to the site i think all the little twists and turns off track in a thread are what give this site personality there's no need to remove stuff, yes ideally you'd get straight to the point threads but wheres the fun in that... the post that has been linked & edited above now looks like a robot has typed the replies.. :/

i'm a member of another forum i'd say almost every topic goes off on one, but it always comes back, people i have met through that forum have also been alot easier to approach when meeting at shows due to the fact you can get a bit of their personality from the posts they make.

if you are going to drive away the people who basicly keep this forum going then there seems no point to post updates to build logs as the people you are looking for replies from wont be looking.

[WandrinAndy]

I totally agree with you Jazz that there was nothing wrong with anything you or M_C posted on that thread..... And frankly editing it out seems a bit pointless IMO, as I thought the thread was already back on track, but then again I'm not running the forum...

Btw, I disagreed with JohnS's view on the "Exception" thread... it's simply life that we cannot always agree IMV... but sadly I've certainly noticed that JohnS is conspicuous by his absence ever since that thread, and he is missed as much as you will be.

I will stay in touch via email/skype.

[blackburn mark]

So sorry folks from now on I will be taking a leaf from John S book.!!

sounds a bit harsh jazz... it's the members you n john are punishing!
i dont know the in's and out's of the latest scrape but if i had to stick £100 on who was being a dick id be as well to toss a coin on the matter
(censorship is a ruthless weapon when abused... as is a yorkshireman with a skin full lol)

you should sleep on it... and twist johns arm while your at it :)

[Musht]

Do remember the linked thread before someone let a redundant Newsnight editor loose on it....

C`mon Lee your original comment in that thread was fair enough, the way it has now been edited changes the story a lot.

Can`t say it makes me feel comfortable in a place where may look for honest recommendations.

Adam

[Ricardoco]

OK I'm pissed off.!! My pet hate is Censorship and it's happening again with Gestapo thread policing.

Over in this Thread . . . http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/g-code-corner/5317-g-code-camshaft-4th-axis.html . . . both M.C and I posted with comments on John S not being around anymore. Nothing Of what I posted was out of Order and IMO neither did M.C and it's FACT John S hasn't been around since he pointed out a valid point in a thread http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/feedback-suggestions/5094-exception-post.html#post35687 and was chastised for it (Wrongly IMO) so took exception and hasn't been back since and very much doubt will be again.

LEE I've seen your comments on the plans for this forum and other forums but let me ask this question (That John S ounce said to me) . . . How the hell do you plan to do that with less than 20 regular posters and even fewer Experienced one's (18 now.!!)

This Forum is only has good has it's REGULAR and EXPERIENCED posters and if we are going to be treated with such disrespect then I'm having no further part in it.!!

So sorry folks from now on I will be taking a leaf from John S book.!!

Those that need advice can PM me I'll still reply and those that Know my email or phone number your still welcome anytime but I won't be commenting on any threads or builds. . . That's what Censorships brings.!!

Happy CNC'ing
Well Im Gutted, The amount of things ive learned from you is huge and to be honest I am not sure who to pester now.. I have not been on as much as i would have liked lately due to work commitments but i was shocked about John S. I for one will miss you both and i do hope you will keep in touch. In fact what would make you stay???

Rick

[Web Goblin]

I must admit I have missed not having any Hobnobs and I will miss not having Jazz around as well. Always enjoyed reading any posts you two had input in and learned quite a bit from them.
Sorry to see you go!!

Best Regards

Ian

[Clive S]

Jazz. I have read most of your posts (and John S) and I have a lot of respect for you in the help that you have given many people including myself by reading them. it would be a great shame if the forum lost you as it takes all types to make a good forum, I hope perhaps you could sleep on it and reconsider if only for the benifit of all us newbies out here to lead us on the correct path through the minefield :apologetic:. I would also like to thank you for your input to many posts.:orange:

[Iwant1]

Jazz, I for one will miss your posts, like I did with John S. I also urge you to rethink your decision as your guidance to new comers is invaluable, its realistic with real world data just the type of info I was after. I know that its not just the forum posts that make JAZZCNC, but all those lengthy pm's explaining peoples issues in layman's. I'm just glad through email conversations we have formed a relationship, that will continue past the cnc world.

I will continue my build log, which right now is a little slow, just so the new and un-experienced can learn from the tips you gave.

I also hate censorship, in a different context, lol http://1.2.3.12/bmi/www.mycncuk.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.png

Regards Adil

[Lee Roberts]

OK I'm pissed off.!! My pet hate is Censorship and it's happening again with Gestapo thread policing.

Over in this Thread . . . http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/g-code-corner/5317-g-code-camshaft-4th-axis.html . . . both M.C and I posted with comments on John S not being around anymore. Nothing Of what I posted was out of Order and IMO neither did M.C and it's FACT John S hasn't been around since he pointed out a valid point in a thread http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/feedback-suggestions/5094-exception-post.html#post35687 and was chastised for it (Wrongly IMO) so took exception and hasn't been back since and very much doubt will be again.

LEE I've seen your comments on the plans for this forum and other forums but let me ask this question (That John S ounce said to me) . . . How the hell do you plan to do that with less than 20 regular posters and even fewer Experienced one's (18 now.!!)

This Forum is only has good has it's REGULAR and EXPERIENCED posters and if we are going to be treated with such disrespect then I'm having no further part in it.!!

So sorry folks from now on I will be taking a leaf from John S book.!!

Those that need advice can PM me I'll still reply and those that Know my email or phone number your still welcome anytime but I won't be commenting on any threads or builds. . . That's what Censorships brings.!!

Happy CNC'ing

Nothing has been censored Jazz, moderated yes censored no!

I agree with you that your comments and m-c’s were fine and not out of order. However the thread was about machine a camshaft and a 4th axis. So comments based on speculation and other things not remotely related to what the thread was about were moderated out to make sure the thread went back on track. Moderation not censorship!

There are far more than 20 active members on these forums; it’s also true that there are more than a few experienced users. I can remember when some of the current experienced users where the ones asking the newbie questions, my point is with time everyone learns and people come and go and as they do they develop just like everyone else, this enables them to share what they know.

“So sorry folks from now on I will be taking a leaf from John S book.”

What leaf would that be though, to date there hasn’t been an official statement from John S confirming his position regarding if or not he has indeed left the site. So I read that statement as more speculation, so not really something to base such a drastic decision on.

Here is a copy of what was said in the thread and my replies:




The only thing he apologized for, was for having an 'old fashioned view' on things, not 'getting it wrong'.

No he said:


Anyway I'm obviously wrong on this - sorry, I must be just too old fashioned.......................


PS. I notice in the absence of John S to complain, that skimlinking has reappeared.

Skimlinks have been on the forum since i installed them, they have never been removed. Point me to where John S complained about them being on here, actually don’t bother I've better things to think about and do.


Despite what Lee thinks I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for John to show up round here so I'd contact him directly.!. . . . . Mind you knowing that Old Bast@~rd he'll be along any minute just to prove me wrong. . Lol

Hummm, if John has left the forum it would be a sad thing, as he was one of the very first people I invited to my personal cnc blog that has now become this public forum. What do i think ?, who cares ? Well...I think he’s a bigger and better man than people are giving him credit for, he wouldn’t leave something he helped to build over somthing as trivial as split milk.

.Me


So as you can see nothing so serious and nothing I would need to “hide” or censor, however totally off topic and based on nothing more than speculation and people getting their facts wrong.

What I did with the said thread is nothing I haven’t done before and the only difference is this time it involves Jazz’s posts and as we know Jazz doesn’t like his posts being “messed with” but like everyone else he is subject to the forum rules and how I sail my ship. I also note that you have read the forum rules Jazz, so nothing here should come as a shock or indeed as unexpected to you.

I remind you of something you said to me not so long ago Jazz, “I’m getting used to you now Lee”. If people want to discuss if or not John S has decided to stop using the forum they are more than welcome to, the only reason I never moved the said posts regarding this to a new thread is because there has been no official comment from John S on this, so anything being said was simply speculation and could cause alarm for no valid reason. Similar to what this thread has done.


C`mon Lee your original comment in that thread was fair enough, the way it has now been edited changes the story a lot. Can`t say it makes me feel comfortable in a place where may look for honest recommendations.
Adam

Not sure I follow what you mean Adam, what is left in the camshaft thread is everything related to the original post, robot like or not.


I was shocked about John S. Rick

Exactly but you have no reason to be as John hasn’t said he’s left the forum, it’s just rumour going round at the mill. Robin Hewitt hasn’t posted on the forum for 4 days now, does that mean he’s stopped using the forum now as well. I dont think so, I’m personally not about to second guess some one.

I'm not kidding myself with regards to John S either, it’s quite possible he has decided not to engage on the forums anymore, but allot of things are also possible. As such I’m not going to stop thinking positive about something just because it’s easier and make's good reading for some. When i feel enough time has passed or I get word from John S that the above is true then I will make my move.

I'm off to make my reply to Irving, who has had a near fatal accident recently and is in a very bad way: new life irving reborn (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/general-discussion/5327-new-life-irving-reborn.html)

.Me

[JAZZCNC]

First To LEE I never mentioned that John S had left the forum but you clearly don't now how much you upset John S and I do from contact with him so given that info my comments where valid and not speculation.
If my comments based on fact leave you or the other MODS a little uncomfortable then that's your problem not mine and maybe you should look to why, but I don't have to put up with it just like John hasn't.

Now with regards to me leaving I Also Like John S never said I was leaving the Forum just not posting or replying to threads and these are my reasons why.

To those that think I'm being Harsh, (Mark, I wasn't pissed Either other than pissed OFF), then consider this.!
I spend an unhealthy amount of time replying to post's or emailing/PM-ing often going into far too much detail in order to help and give back the best I can and for very little reward other than satisfaction of helping.
While this helps the individuals it also helps the Forum owner by making the forum more appealing so when my post's get hacked for no good reason IMO or done under the pretences of quoting forum rules just because it makes the higher powers feel slightly uncomfortable then I'm not going to waste my time anymore.

If this comes over has me being petty then fine but I don't feel that objecting to Censorship, and not for the first time, in what ever form it's portrayed is too much to ask of the site owners given the amount effort and time I've freely given.
That said I have no problem with moderating threads when they go too far, and yes I've been party to my far share and guilty of going too far and being a Dick on many occasion but that's not what's happening now.!

Someone said what would it take to bring me back.? Well the answer is I haven't left just not contributing directly any more only to be Censored by a Gestapo regime.
This type of ruling or "Sailing ships" smacks of dictator ship and I won't waste my valuable time contributing just to be dictated too when I'm helping to boost the appeal of the Forum.

So I say if you want the BEST FORUM with the nicest folks to remain the Best then I urge you all to resist and shout loud when ever you see it unjustly happen.!! Other wise the valuable hard learnt information the likes of John S and others posses won't be shared so it's LOSE - - LOSE and I don't mean for John S, Me or any of the others who keep Stum.!!

I'll say it again. .. . . CENSORSHIP KILLS FORUMS.

Now I too am off to give a very nice bloke my best wish's.!!

[blackburn mark]

I urge you all to resist and shout loud when ever you see it unjustly happen.!!


This type of ruling or "Sailing ships" smacks of dictator ship

i feel your pain jazz, iv had my moments of wondering why i would or should invest energy into a thing that someone else refers to as "my ship"... it stings a tad at those times when it seems that what we do here is simply a means to someone else’s preferred end if that preferred end isn’t in the most part philanthropic

if you n john and the like give your voice away we lose any power of solidarity this forum "might" have against the king of the castle :)

if you had lodged your complaint concisely laying out what where and when the general populous could have more easily picked over the points and decided who the dick was.
Without the original text its hard to pick a winner lol
It does however seem strange considering how often we normally drift too and fro in a thread for this perticular thread to be singled out for an "edit"?

[Hobgoblin]

Its all gone a bit bullshit and politics on ere, just let things be said and keep it down to earth!

I will miss both of your input on my thread but am at least glad you will still be available.

[m_c]

The issue is lots of threads drift of topic, but anything that criticises how the site is run, get editted.


And just to clarify things for Lee, and to do some of the moderating teams much loved selective quoting from other threads


Lee if something isn't done about this then please pull my account or whatever it is called and delete all my posts. I don't want to belong if there are double standards at work.
What bit of that leaves any doubt?


As for the skimlinks, I run several websites, and I refuse to use them. To me it is a devious underhand method to generate income. I'd much rather see keyword linking (ala CNCzone), as at least that's obvious.
And for those wondering what skimlinks are, basically any links to sites like ebay, don't go directly there. The link on the referring site looks like a genuine link, however it is actually a link to a redirection site, which then immediatly redirects you to the link you think you clicked on, so as not to alert users that they've just been redirected. The referring site then gets a referal fee for each link/click.

[Robin Hewitt]

Robin Hewitt hasn’t posted on the forum for 4 days now, does that mean he’s stopped using the forum now as well. I dont think so, I’m personally not about to second guess some one.

I'm up to my eyeballs in ARM Coretex programming, if you don't do it then it looks really boring, don't want to bore y'all.

Regarding John S and Jazz I have no real opinion.

I can understand people getting hot under the collar about trivia, been there, done that, can't quite remember why.

Hopefully they will grow out of it. Those that don't can end up really bitter and twisted.
Recommend more fun, less angst :beer:

[Musht]

Not sure I follow what you mean Adam, what is left in the camshaft thread is everything related to the original post, robot like or not.



Sorry you don`t follow me Lee, not sure what thread you have quoted above but it isn`t the bits edited out of camshaft thread, there was advice that contacting John S was best done by P.M. or email as he appeared unlikely to be posting in public on this forum at present, a link to the thread where he last posted was provided , you added a comment much like here that there was no comment from John S and that he may yet appear again.

The thread then returned to its purpose, don`t think anyone bothered much TBH

Some days later it gets a hatchet job, if it was a video it would have jump cuts right through it.

If ask for advice on a project or product , want to feel that honest debate is encouraged can live with a bit of noise in my signal.

[JoeHarris]

John and dean are two of the most honest and helpful guys on here, this is a real shame.

[Fivetide]

All I know is that if you let something you don’t agree with stop you protesting against it, then the thing you don’t agree with has won.
I would rather continue to contribute and disagree, than disagree with my lack of contribution.
I would rather argue about my contribution, rather than contribute to my argument


I’m attempting to sound intelligent but failing but I hope you get what I’m trying to say.

[WandrinAndy]

All I know is that if you let something you don’t agree with stop you protesting against it, then the thing you don’t agree with has won. I would rather continue to contribute and disagree, than disagree with my lack of contribution. I would rather argue about my contribution, rather than contribute to my argument. I’m attempting to sound intelligent but failing but I hope you get what I’m trying to say.

I follow what you're saying Fivetide, and initially privately thought that reduction of contribution was an over-reaction, although I had also thought that the censoring was unnecessary to start with.

BUT...

I have since fallen foul of similar censorship on another unrelated forum, and am frankly shocked to find that my own response is almost identical to that of Jazz!

Well, with me it is simply that I come warts and all... My good bits are interspersed with my bad bits.

By all means Disagree with my view... Persuade me.... Insult me... but DON'T pick and choose what you see as relevant to your agenda and simply Tippex or Beep out the rest of my post as if I had never written it!

My Gawd, I'm getting all philosophical... Maybe they've added summat to the water up here ;-)

[Fivetide]

I follow what you're saying Fivetide, and initially privately thought that reduction of contribution was an over-reaction, although I had also thought that the censoring was unnecessary to start with.

BUT...

I have since fallen foul of similar censorship on another unrelated forum, and am frankly shocked to find that my own response is almost identical to that of Jazz!

Well, with me it is simply that I come warts and all... My good bits are interspersed with my bad bits.

By all means Disagree with my view... Persuade me.... Insult me... but DON'T pick and choose what you see as relevant to your agenda and simply Tippex or Beep out the rest of my post as if I had never written it!

My Gawd, I'm getting all philosophical... Maybe they've added summat to the water up here ;-)

The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.
Charles Bukowski

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
Robert M. Hutchins

[WandrinAndy]

The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.
Charles Bukowski

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
Robert M. Hutchins

Blimey, they're piping Yorkshire's fixed water across to Preston now ;-)

[Fivetide]

Blimey, they're piping Yorkshire's fixed water across to Preston now ;-)

Really ? I knew it !! Thats why I feel bad after paying the actual price for something !! lol

[Shinobiwan]

Moderation around here seriously needs to buck up. Just came across this thread and its not great.

Some transparency should be par for the course. I don't like the idea of posting somewhere you might get edited should you say the wrong thing to the wrong person (within reasonable limits of self conduct). I understand moderation is an essential part of any well rounded forum but care should be taken as to what ends up in the garbage and what doesn't. Its just good manners really.

Hang in there Jazz. The forum would be a far worse place without you and others like you.

[JAZZCNC]

Hang in there Jazz. The forum would be a far worse place without you and others like you.

No worries mate I'll be around you know where to find me.!