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Ricardoco
02-12-2012, 10:51 PM
This will be a Router/Mill with Plasma,

Ok i should have started this thread sometime ago but i wanted to collect as many bits as i could to get a good start. So I used sketchup to give me the initial concept...
75077510

The first thing that was pointed out to me was that the Gantry may be a little too high and so thaat has been altered now.

the machine will eventually have an ATC and has 2 stations at the right side of the gantry for the most commonly used tools, and the rest on the front of the bed, there is also a Secondary 7" Touch screen with a custom mach layput to suit its size.
Here is also a picture of some of the goodies that will go to building it.

7508

There was a few more additions to this but they wouldnt fit on the table...

Today i started work on the electrics box...

7509

I will start the internals Next Weekend...

Rick

Ricardoco
15-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Ok started work on the Z back plate, So i have a few questions.

Firstly i have 150mm between the centers of the guide rail blocks along the Y axis, to put the Z axis blocks on the plate i was wondering,
what would be the best configuration.
IE Above the upper rail and below the lower rail.
Inbetween both
or
1 above the lower block and 1 below.

7640

7641

Here are some Draft drawings that show Z above Y, But as i said im not sure of the best configuration.

So Ideas would be Welcome.


Rick

Jonathan
16-12-2012, 01:43 PM
You want the lower two bearing blocks on Z as close to the bed as you can get them, to reduce the overhang. This is because the Z-axis can be modelled as a cantilevered beam, since it's only supported at one end. This means that the deflection at the end is proportional to the distance from the tool to the support (lower Z bearings) to the power 3, so even a small reduction in this distance can help a lot to increase the stiffness.

I'd put them above the top rail and below the lower rail for the above reason, and also because this increases the spacing of the blocks which is important to get maximum stiffness and it probably makes assembly easier. If However you can't afford the loss in travel thin entails, it's OK to have one between and the lower one below.

Ricardoco
17-12-2012, 12:09 AM
You want the lower two bearing blocks on Z as close to the bed as you can get them, to reduce the overhang. This is because the Z-axis can be modelled as a cantilevered beam, since it's only supported at one end. This means that the deflection at the end is proportional to the distance from the tool to the support (lower Z bearings) to the power 3, so even a small reduction in this distance can help a lot to increase the stiffness.

I'd put them above the top rail and below the lower rail for the above reason, and also because this increases the spacing of the blocks which is important to get maximum stiffness and it probably makes assembly easier. If However you can't afford the loss in travel thin entails, it's OK to have one between and the lower one below. Well the Z rails i have were going to be 400mm, but since i got hold of some 520mm rails :friendly_wink: i can afford to loose a little more travel than expected, i will take that advice, and thank you very much for it.

I will be completing the design before the end of the week i suspect, i am going for 30mm alu plate if i can get hold of it.

Regards Rick

Ricardoco
27-12-2012, 12:47 AM
Having Lowered the gantry already i didnt want to lose any more Z travel so ive opted for this configuration of bearings..

7760775977627761


540x300x30mm Ali Plate, Should Give an Assembled measurement of less than 95mm from gantry to front of plate..

Rick

JAZZCNC
27-12-2012, 03:43 PM
Having Lowered the gantry already i didnt want to lose any more Z travel so ive opted for this configuration of bearings..

7760775977627761


540x300x30mm Ali Plate, Should Give an Assembled measurement of less than 95mm from gantry to front of plate..

Rick

Don't like the fact the Z axis bearings are so far up the back plate, your creating probably 70mm more leverage. Reducing this flexy leverage is more important than having a slim Z axis any day.
The 300mm for Z axis front plate is a bit of waste has well and will make more work for the stepper and reduce feeds/accel at 30mm thick. 200mm width is fine so thats effectively 540x100x30mm and 23 of wasted plate and if 6 series ali 4.3KG of weight thats not required.!!

If you must have narrow Z axis then I'd go with some thing like the pics below.
It's wider on the Y axis by 60-70mm were bearings are located but slimmer on the rest and Z axis front plate but more importantly the bearings are lower down.
Also it's actually slimmer at approx 70mm from gantry, will be much lighter and estimate approx 10-12KG lighter over all and will probably use less material depending if you can use the same shortened back plate.?

Obviously I've had to guess and used 20mm linear bearing models and dimensions here so depending what your actually using things could workout slightly different.

Ricardoco
27-12-2012, 06:41 PM
Cheers Jazz


Don't like the fact the Z axis bearings are so far up the back plate, your creating probably 70mm more leverage. Reducing this flexy leverage is more important than having a slim Z axis any day. .
Jonathan had pointed this out to me as well, so putting them either side is a good bet as in your drawings.


The 300mm for Z axis front plate is a bit of waste has well and will make more work for the stepper and reduce feeds/accel at 30mm thick. 200mm width is fine so thats effectively 540x100x30mm and 23 of wasted plate and if 6 series ali 4.3KG of weight thats not required.!!.
The 300mm will be needed so i cannot odds that, and the weight will be offset buy putting Holes/Pockets where i can removing excess material in the back plate and on the rear of the front plate, i was going to draw that but it crowded the drawing and made the concept difficult to see, I know its a waste but i can live with it.


If you must have narrow Z axis then I'd go with some thing like the pics below.
It's wider on the Y axis by 60-70mm were bearings are located but slimmer on the rest and Z axis front plate but more importantly the bearings are lower down. . I will have to look at the extra 60-70mm to see if i will lose work space as the spindle is going to be mounted on the right side of the front z plate. Im not thinking it will be a problem..



Also it's actually slimmer at approx 70mm from gantry, will be much lighter and estimate approx 10-12KG lighter over all and will probably use less material depending if you can use the same shortened back plate.

Ive no problems making it slimmer but i would like to mount the stepper with spindle pointing upwards and running a belt to the Screw, the motor is 100mm long (nema 24 (4nm Claimed) ) so would need at least that much to clear the top of the gantry, effectively front plate and back plate level at the top of its travel. the rails i have are 520 or 540mm long cant remember of the top of my head, but that should give enough travel, the Y axis bearings will be 150mm from center of bottom bearing to Center of top bearing


Obviously I've had to guess and used 20mm linear bearing models and dimensions here so depending what your actually using things could workout slightly different.

Well they are 15mm rails for the Z as thats what i have, the Y well they could be 15 or 20 mm depending what i buy/procure..

Im not going to be doing any heavy Machining Of metals other than the odd bit of ali sheet, so i suspect 15mm will be ok if i can reduce the final weight of the Z axis assembly by pocketing as much out of it as i can without compromising on the strength to any great degree.

Rick

Ricardoco
27-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Jazz, Looking again at your design, if the Z/Y backplate was higher (to accommodate the stepper arrangement I mentioned) and the front plate wider then that's the job done I rekon.. What software do you use to do your drawings?? Cheers Rick

JAZZCNC
27-12-2012, 09:43 PM
.. What software do you use to do your drawings?? Cheers Rick

Rhino for cad.

Ricardoco
27-12-2012, 11:20 PM
Rhino for cad. I will have to take a look at that... Cheers

Ricardoco
01-01-2013, 12:34 AM
Ok using some of Jazz's Suggestions, Ive reworked the Z axis and included all machined parts im hoping to end up with.

78107811 78087809781278137814

Im Hoping Thats better than my first attempt, i've put pockets in to remove weight, whilst trying to maintain structural integrity..

Rick

wilfy
01-01-2013, 01:59 AM
if this works, you know you are making me one of these when i expand my empire. :D

btw why did you go for a weird size like 7' x 4' instead of 8' x 4' which would let you fit a full size sheet of anything?

Ricardoco
01-01-2013, 02:44 AM
if this works, you know you are making me one of these when i expand my empire. :D

btw why did you go for a weird size like 7' x 4' instead of 8' x 4' which would let you fit a full size sheet of anything?

LOL I will have to get one made for myself first hopefully ill get a few comments first, Then i will RFQ and see Who wants to make the parts for me..

The size? Hmmmm, i only needed 6' X 4' but you lose about 8" or more from the tool to the back of the gantry, so 7' covers what i need but is still considerably cheaper than going to the 8'. To actually have an 8' X 4' usable area can mean a machine of upto 9'..

Maybe iI will do a Full 8' X 4' usable area when ive comleted this One.. He He He..

Rick

m.marino
02-01-2013, 01:38 PM
Beautiful,

Only one question; how do you plan to lubricate the ball-screw that rides inside of Z? having run into this issue myself, I though it wise to point it out. One option is to machine a port into the plate and have the zerk (grease) nipple come out through it to the front and thereby save yourself from having any future issues with greasing the ball nut (not something that has to be done often but trust me not fun to do with having to remove half the Z to get at things. Other then that great design and keep on with what looks to be a wonderful build.

Michael

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 02:42 PM
Beautiful,

Only one question; how do you plan to lubricate the ball-screw that rides inside of Z? having run into this issue myself, I though it wise to point it out. One option is to machine a port into the plate and have the zerk (grease) nipple come out through it to the front and thereby save yourself from having any future issues with greasing the ball nut (not something that has to be done often but trust me not fun to do with having to remove half the Z to get at things. Other then that great design and keep on with what looks to be a wonderful build.

Michael
OMG!! thanks mate (Dont know your name) i left space to put ports in for the rail blocks but not the ballnut, and never incorperated them into the design.. Thats magic thanks for noticing that.. I will sort it now.

Rick

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 03:34 PM
Beautiful,

Only one question; how do you plan to lubricate the ball-screw that rides inside of Z? having run into this issue myself, I though it wise to point it out. One option is to machine a port into the plate and have the zerk (grease) nipple come out through it to the front and thereby save yourself from having any future issues with greasing the ball nut (not something that has to be done often but trust me not fun to do with having to remove half the Z to get at things. Other then that great design and keep on with what looks to be a wonderful build.

Michael There You Go, Ive put a pocket in , it will be behind the stepper when the Z is fully up. Im woring on the placement of the limts at the moment so its not quite finished but I suspect I will post it for quotes in the next week or so, the trouble is eveyone is a little busy at this time of year.

78347837

78357836

Rick

JAZZCNC
02-01-2013, 04:45 PM
Hi Rick,

See Little things but important and worth the little extra effort.!

First the linear rails and bearing pockets. Ideally you want registers to aid alignment/re-assembly and because your pocketing the bearings you can use the walls of these pockets has the registers by making sure the bearings on one side of each set of bearings aliagn with the walls (See Red circles in pics).

Also I'm sure this you know but I'll point out any way just in case.? The pockets have square corners and we can't easily machine sq corners. So the pockets will need additional length to allow for the radius of the cutter. (circled Blue)

Can I just ask what's the rectangular piece with 2 holes.? (circled green)

The top stepper bracket.? Is it a 2 piece part or single.? Doesn't really need to be 2 piece and could be single and still do the job. Also the little bits that lock into the pockets won't be needed and make the machining and fit harder than needs to be Again due to radius corners clashing with square edges.
To be honest all the pockets and step down on top piece could also be done away with and reduce machine time without adding a massive amount of weight. Lot of work in that one piece that doesn't need or had much to the machine.

The I'd also leave a small skin 1-2mm on the lightening pockets on rear plate so it doesn't leave access for flying chips.

I know it's just probably to save drawing but remember all internal corners will have radius so take care this doesn't catch you out if anything is close on dimensions or catching.?

Edit: Oh Before those observing think I'm being negative or putting someones work down which to be honest I'm getting sick being accused off then Ric asked me to have a look and comment.

JAZZCNC
02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
OMG!! thanks mate (Dont know your name)

A BIG clue is the last word . . . . . " Micheal ". . . . Lol

JAZZCNC
02-01-2013, 05:02 PM
One other thing I don't see any reference to a ballscrew or bearing mountings for one.?

The slot up the centre looks rather narrow for Ballnut and it's mount has well.?

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 05:30 PM
Firstly Jazz and i must say this at the begining and not the end, I dont want replies that are skirting round what im after, for fear of offending me, Im a grown man and i dont have time to waste, I like the direct responces and if i factor in a bit of northern sence of humour, i get a free grin to boot!!!

I also respect all those people who know better than me and dont see the comments as a personal dig, If i cannot do something because i lack Knowlege, experience, or indeed a little common sence, then its nice to know that there are those that will give replies i wont forget in a hurry LOL and i get their wisdom for FREE.


Hi Rick,

See Little things but important and worth the little extra effort.!

First the linear rails and bearing pockets. Ideally you want registers to aid alignment/re-assembly and because your pocketing the bearings you can use the walls of these pockets has the registers by making sure the bearings on one side of each set of bearings aliagn with the walls (See Red circles in pics)Also I'm sure this you know but I'll point out any way just in case.? The pockets have square corners and we can't easily machine sq corners. So the pockets will need additional length to allow for the radius of the cutter. (circled Blue)

I have made the pockets for the bearings 70 X 48 with a bearing size of 65 X 46, the rails are 15 x 15 and the pockets for them are 16mm where applicable. if you think that needs changing let me know, its easy to change, and i have allowed enough space in the design for this



Can I just ask what's the rectangular piece with 2 holes.? (circled green)

LOL i did wonder if anyone would ask and i didnt factor in the radiused corners in the back plate for it, I was going to tig that in to the back plate as a mount for the lower bearings for the back plate and the Y ballnut.


The top stepper bracket.? Is it a 2 piece part or single.? Doesn't really need to be 2 piece and could be single and still do the job. Also the little bits that lock into the pockets won't be needed and make the machining and fit harder than needs to be Again due to radius corners clashing with square edges.)

I had wanted it to be a single part, pocket locks gone!!



To be honest all the pockets and step down on top piece could also be done away with and reduce machine time without adding a massive amount of weight. Lot of work in that one piece that doesn't need or had much to the machine..)

Gone!!




The I'd also leave a small skin 1-2mm on the lightening pockets on rear plate so it doesn't leave access for flying chips...)

Done!




I know it's just probably to save drawing but remember all internal corners will have radius so take care this doesn't catch you out if anything is close on dimensions or catching.?

Yes it was to save drawing but i'm glad you have mentioned it, I will go over the design as i dont want any surprises as just the material will cost a mint so i dont want any surprises, Im determined to get this right.



Edit: Oh Before those observing think I'm being negative or putting someones work down which to be honest I'm getting sick being accused off then Ric asked me to have a look and comment.

How much more negative would it be not to mention things, and watch me struggle when you could clearly have helped.

This is a free forum and if i get a bit of banter, well thats a small price to pay!! (and im free to give it back)

So many people read emotion into text that isnt there, I dont want you to stop being critical of any designs i submit, it will save me finding out the hard way..

Cheers Jazz

Updated designs will be submitted shortly..

Rick

wilfy
02-01-2013, 05:55 PM
if only everyone could read jazz's comments in the same way!

mocha
02-01-2013, 06:17 PM
snip...

i dont have time to waste, I like the direct responces and if i factor in a bit of northern sence of humour, i get a free grin to boot!!!

I also respect all those people who know better than me and dont see the comments as a personal dig, If i cannot do something because i lack Knowlege, experience, or indeed a little common sence, then its nice to know that there are those that will give replies i wont forget in a hurry LOL and i get their wisdom for FREE.


snip...

How much more negative would it be not to mention things, and watch me struggle when you could clearly have helped.

This is a free forum and if i get a bit of banter, well thats a small price to pay!! (and im free to give it back)

So many people read emotion into text that isnt there, I dont want you to stop being critical of any designs i submit, it will save me finding out the hard way..

Rick

+1 to that Rick. To me that is the best thing about all the people here who take the time and trouble to contribute. I'm not interested in fluffy platitudes, I'm interested in getting it right.

Swarfing
02-01-2013, 06:23 PM
:toot: Nothing wrong with being load and proud. With the input you are getting Ric will turn out a very nice build. Rome was built together and not by one man (plus a huge amount of slaves)

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 06:23 PM
One other thing I don't see any reference to a ballscrew or bearing mountings for one.?

The slot up the centre looks rather narrow for Ballnut and it's mount has well.?
I have two AC Bearings for the top mount and the Top plate has pockets accordingly 32x10 ID12 and a floating beatring for the bottom. (to suit a 1605 ballscrew) each half of the channel is 40x20mm so that should be enough... I think..

7843

This is the ballnut i will be using although im open to suggestions, If you think a better one could be used.

Rick

JAZZCNC
02-01-2013, 06:31 PM
I have made the pockets for the bearings 70 X 48 with a bearing size of 65 X 46, the rails are 15 x 15 and the pockets for them are 16mm where applicable. if you think that needs changing let me know, its easy to change, and i have allowed enough space in the design for this

All it needs is at one side of each set of bearings to have the side of the pocket line up with the edge of the bearing, so the bearing or rail Butt's upto it.
So IE: On the Z axis have say the left bearings align with the pocket edges, same with rails on Left side. With the Y axis have the upper Bearings align with upper pocket edges, the rails you'll have to deal with on the Gantry but same applies a straight and true Register helps.
The rest of the pockets can be any size so long has the bearings and rails fit inside and infact a bit of wiggle room helps.





LOL i did wonder if anyone would ask and i didnt factor in the radiused corners in the back plate for it, I was going to tig that in to the back plate as a mount for the lower bearings for the back plate and the Y ballnut.

Ye thats what I feared.!! Don't do that it's too inflexible.! "Adjustment" "Adjustment" "Adjustment" is the secret to the whole machine and Esp the setting up of the Z axis and ball-screw alignments.
Ask anyone who's done it the difference between working and locking up is silly small and if you haven't got easy or multiple ways to adjust then life will be frustrating.!!

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 06:49 PM
Ye thats what I feared.!! Don't do that it's too inflexible.! "Adjustment" "Adjustment" "Adjustment" is the secret to the whole machine and Esp the setting up of the Z axis and ball-screw alignments.
Ask anyone who's done it the difference between working and locking up is silly small and if you haven't got easy or multiple ways to adjust then life will be frustrating.!!Ok Will look at that, any ideas jump out at you looking at it?

JAZZCNC
02-01-2013, 07:00 PM
Ok Will look at that, any ideas jump out at you looking at it?

Just make each mount individual and bolt on so that if needed they can be adjusted or shimmed has needed.! Nothing fancy needed.

Ricardoco
02-01-2013, 07:03 PM
Just make each mount individual and bolt on so that if needed they can be adjusted or shimmed has needed.! Nothing fancy needed. Yep that makes sence, off to work now so speak when i get there, will have a look when i get to site.


Rick

m.marino
02-01-2013, 10:14 PM
Rick,

With that ballnut a good bit of the issue with lubrication is mute BUT still make sure you have access. I also see why you want to keep in near completely enclosed as that nut does not have protective flanges for the ball races. Therefore the less chance for swarf to get in the better.

Speaking from experience of a a design done with Jazz and he built for me and I have worked on a good bit and have had to lube and put shims back and all the fun that goes with it, listen to Jazz. Now hear is where I get to make a point a bit clearer. Lubrication is not just the ball nut. Those linear rail carriages are going to want a greasing once a quarter if you are using that machine with a daily use level (that is even with the protective scrapers).

Personally for myself I am setting up a bit of over kill as I am designing a lube system for my current machine that will be a lube block for X, one for Y and most of Z and a single lube point out the front of the Z plate with a cap for the ball nut.

Registers made setting up my machine take two days instead of a week ( even though it came up here in two heavy large sections it still needed squaring, truing and tramming. A side note to folks, tramming is something you should check once a fortnight to once a month (depending on how heavy your use is and what your cutting). My source for this information is a few friends back in the states that are having fun laughing at me stumbling along and learning (They are both 20 yr plus machinists and High School "friends" :beaten: ).

You have a really nice design and with just a bit of adjustment it will not only do you proud as a finished build (ha, a machine is never finished), but the quality you put in and care to detail in the build has a direct result on the out come you get. I mean heck with the power supply I finally built and installed for my machine I am running acceleration level in scary land with rather nice rapids. When I get the feeds and speeds right (which is getting more often) I am getting wonderful finishes. Keep it up, doing good.

Michael

Ricardoco
03-01-2013, 12:26 AM
Rick,

With that ballnut a good bit of the issue with lubrication is mute BUT still make sure you have access. I also see why you want to keep in near completely enclosed as that nut does not have protective flanges for the ball races. Therefore the less chance for swarf to get in the better.

Speaking from experience of a a design done with Jazz and he built for me and I have worked on a good bit and have had to lube and put shims back and all the fun that goes with it, listen to Jazz. Now hear is where I get to make a point a bit clearer. Lubrication is not just the ball nut. Those linear rail carriages are going to want a greasing once a quarter if you are using that machine with a daily use level (that is even with the protective scrapers).

Personally for myself I am setting up a bit of over kill as I am designing a lube system for my current machine that will be a lube block for X, one for Y and most of Z and a single lube point out the front of the Z plate with a cap for the ball nut.

Registers made setting up my machine take two days instead of a week ( even though it came up here in two heavy large sections it still needed squaring, truing and tramming. A side note to folks, tramming is something you should check once a fortnight to once a month (depending on how heavy your use is and what your cutting). My source for this information is a few friends back in the states that are having fun laughing at me stumbling along and learning (They are both 20 yr plus machinists and High School "friends" :beaten: ).

You have a really nice design and with just a bit of adjustment it will not only do you proud as a finished build (ha, a machine is never finished), but the quality you put in and care to detail in the build has a direct result on the out come you get. I mean heck with the power supply I finally built and installed for my machine I am running acceleration level in scary land with rather nice rapids. When I get the feeds and speeds right (which is getting more often) I am getting wonderful finishes. Keep it up, doing good.

MichaelCheers Michael, that ballnut as you say has no flanges, but that too is being worked on he (wink), worst case is I have to open up the channel by 6mm each side and fit a conventional or threaded ballnut, and I may go that way in the end purely for simplicity of duplication and security of the balls!!. I too am toying with the lube question, My Boxford has a lube system that looks after things and I'm thinking of fitting tubing directly to the bearing blocks, although for the moment I will be drilling lube ports in the plate and have left enough room to access the nipples that are fitted to the bearing blocks, the orientation of the blocks when fitted will allow them to be lubed without too much fuss, the bottom ones from underneath when the z is fully up and top when the Z is fully down. The Y axis will be accessible by lining up with holes that will be in the gantry itself, they will be covered when not in use. From Friday I will be tinkering with the design to take account of the Registers. Out comes the Vernier again!! LOL but its so worth getting it right.. Rick

Ricardoco
03-01-2013, 09:03 AM
Ok this does have a bearing on the design so please be patient with me, If you were machining these Z parts what would your Cutter preferences be and why, this will help me when i finalise the design, so please everybody pipe in, Remember What type and Why please, if you prefer then PM me as i know some of you wizards like to keep your advantage secret, but please let me know. Right off to bed now 4 hrs should do LOL speak after 1..

JAZZCNC
03-01-2013, 11:29 AM
Depends on what you want and if your lazy.?

Could get away with doing the whole lot with 6mm and no tool changes but would take longer due having to keep shallower depth of cut for 6mm cutter with 30mm plus flute length.?

Or could use 10mm that would allow to hog the whole lot away quickly with deeper DOC and just have larger radius in the corners.

Or if really need tight corners use combination of both 6 & 10mm. Use large cutter to Hog the 98% material away then run round twice with 6mm. One profile pass to fettle corners then another full depth to clean up.

If the radius doesn't matter, which in your case don't think it does then I'd use 8 or 10mm has they will allow more DOC and speed up the Job with no tool changes. . . 8mm would be my preference.!

Jonathan
03-01-2013, 12:26 PM
I'd use 8mm 2fl to cut the pockets, do finishing passes on the pockets with 6mm 1fl if required and cut the part out with 6mm. So basically the same as Jazz.

Ricardoco
03-01-2013, 04:51 PM
OK gents I will run that through a V-carve simulation with an 8mm cutter (two flute) and see what i get and if any alterations will be required to take into consideration the radiuses, although i Know i wont be doing the job myself it will give me an idea of what the finished part will look like..


Rick

Ricardoco
04-01-2013, 11:54 PM
Ok Ive altered the design to put in some registers (In Red) and opened the channel to allow for a standard 1605 ballnut bearing seats are all now standard as well Im going to transfer this lot to V0Carve and run the simulation to see if i get any surprises. All the bearing and ballnut mounts are now seperate and adjustable, there is ample access for Lubrication as well

78657866

You can only see one side of the registers but take my word for it they are there..

Rick

JAZZCNC
05-01-2013, 12:37 AM
Rick simple thing but worth doing is putting the register on the first pic at the top not bottom it makes setup easier has the register sits on the bearings machined edge while bolting up.

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 12:47 AM
Rick simple thing but worth doing is putting the register on the first pic at the top not bottom it makes setup easier has the register sits on the bearings machined edge while bolting up.Ahhhh cheers Jazz, I had to read that twice LOL yeh makes sence now, Thats wont take two ticks as the bearings are 46 wide and the pockets were 48 so ive just moved 1 wall in 1 mm so ill move that back out and the other one in, that will still give me 1 mm free play in the pocket.

Rick

Jonathan
05-01-2013, 02:05 AM
Rotating nut assemblies for your X axis ballscrews are ready:

786778687869

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 02:23 AM
Rotating nut assemblies for your X axis ballscrews are ready:

786778687869

Blimey Now the pressure is on, i was working on the Z whilst i was waiting for these, Looks like i better get my arse in gear!! Thankyou Jonathan, I know you worked over Christmas to get these out for me, I look forward to seeing the posty when he delivers these..

Rick

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 03:16 AM
Just a quick snap to add to the collection!! X axis bits.

7871


Rick

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 03:52 PM
First V-Carve Output Simulation, using 8mm Endmill, It looks so simple when you look at this picture.... Well its not.. This is just the backplate from the Y-side.

7872

I Used the Sketchup model just for dimensions, and re-drew the lot in V-Carve, none of this fancy importing stuff, it never goes right for me..

Rick

JAZZCNC
05-01-2013, 04:15 PM
Rick the trick is to import the 3D model then extract the edges, dump the model and the lines not required and use these for the toolpaths. . .:thumsup:. . . . Simplizzz

Edit: This happens all the time. Folks ask me to make stuff and send me 3D models taking ages over making them only for me to just explode them for the 2D lines/arcs.!! . . . . .If they just asked in first place could have saved them hours. . Lol

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 04:38 PM
Rick the trick is to import the 3D model then extract the edges, dump the model and the lines not required and use these for the toolpaths. . .:thumsup:. . . . Simplizzz

Edit: This happens all the time. Folks ask me to make stuff and send me 3D models taking ages over making them only for me to just explode them for the 2D lines/arcs.!! . . . . .If they just asked in first place could have saved them hours. . LolJazz if you dont mind me asking, What cam software do you use to output to mach?

Rick

JAZZCNC
05-01-2013, 06:03 PM
Jazz if you dont mind me asking, What cam software do you use to output to mach?

Rick

I use BobCad Cam V24

Ricardoco
05-01-2013, 07:40 PM
And the front of the backplate.
7873

Just the mounts and the motor/Screw mount now.

Rick

Ricardoco
24-02-2013, 07:19 PM
Ok took a few pictures of the progress.

8267826382648265826682688269

Now comes the fitting of the motor assembly and X Twin Ballscrews...Hmmm Im sure that will be fun, it took me long enough to get the frame parallel..

Rick

Ricardoco
24-02-2013, 08:14 PM
Ive now reduced the Z to 250mm Max and reduced the gantry mass considerably. Im hoping to have the screws/ motors mounted and close to test by tomorrow evening, But i cannot do any tests antil i recieve the two pulleys and belt to connect the steppers together as a precaution against single motor failure twisting the gantry. Im also looking for a source of 1.6mm 8x4 sheet steel, but the delivery costs are more money than the steel itself... Grrrrr


Rick

JAZZCNC
24-02-2013, 08:36 PM
Rick If those pieces that look like 1" box are for the bed support then it's not going to strong enough with big chance you'll get bed dipping.
The forces when plunging and ramping etc can be high.! Even my 50mm box with 16mm Ali bed can flex when plunging into hard materials. Honestly don't under estimate the forces.!!

Ricardoco
24-02-2013, 08:46 PM
Rick If those pieces that look like 1" box are for the bed support then it's not going to strong enough with big chance you'll get bed dipping.
The forces when plunging and ramping etc can be high.! Even my 50mm box with 16mm Ali bed can flex when plunging into hard materials. Honestly don't under estimate the forces.!!Hi Jazz, that 1" box is going to be supporting the water bed for the plasma only. The milling bed is going to be much tougher and stiffer. There is a 50x50x3mm box section frame topped by 40x40 profile for the Router/Mill bed that is still in production, you should see that appear about mid march.

Rick

Ricardoco
26-02-2013, 03:03 PM
Ok Just building the secondary steel frame that goes inside the main frame for milling/routing, Obviosly im not going to be putting a 7'x4' ali bed on it, the most of it will be a sacrificial bed for routing. So i was wondering what size ali plate to embed in the frame for machining ali. So the question would be. What are the largest size projects you have done and what would be the minimum size ali bed you would choose given the choice, not forgetting quality over quantity and of course price.

I would like as many opinions on this as i can get please.

Rick

Jonathan
26-02-2013, 04:49 PM
If at this stage you can't afford or justify getting a piece of aluminium big enough to cover the whole bed, or strips to cover the bed leaving slots, then I'd say the minimum is a piece wide enough to span the machine and long enough to be useful. That means about 4' by something, maybe 1200x600 would be enough to cover most things. The biggest single aluminium part I've machined on my router was 1015x700x25.4mm and the biggest aluminium 'job' so far has been 1480x715x20mm, which probably doesn't help much with your question as it depends entirely on what you're planning on making. Also these parts were machined when I still had an MDF bed, so if the part wont fit on you're aluminium bed it's not the end of the world. Since your bed will be well supported I see no reason to get more than 20mm thick aluminium.

Ricardoco
26-02-2013, 05:11 PM
If at this stage you can't afford or justify getting a piece of aluminium big enough to cover the whole bed, or strips to cover the bed leaving slots, then I'd say the minimum is a piece wide enough to span the machine and long enough to be useful. That means about 4' by something, maybe 1200x600 would be enough to cover most things. The biggest single aluminium part I've machined on my router was 1015x700x25.4mm and the biggest aluminium 'job' so far has been 1480x715x20mm, which probably doesn't help much with your question as it depends entirely on what you're planning on making. Also these parts were machined when I still had an MDF bed, so if the part wont fit on you're aluminium bed it's not the end of the world. Since your bed will be well supported I see no reason to get more than 20mm thick aluminium. Ideally i would like to cover the whole bed in profile, but the cost i suspect would be well over the top, in fact i dare not look although it wont be as much as it was when the bed was 7' but since i rebuilt the bed length at 6'6"x4'. I would love a complete bed ali with t slots but im not sure i can justify the massive percentage of the final cost.....

So your largest Ali machined part was 1480 x 715. Cheers Jonathan.

Ok any more offerings??


Rick

JAZZCNC
26-02-2013, 05:25 PM
Agree 1200x600 would be my minimum if planning on cutting thicker Aluminium has most Single parts will usually fit in that space and only if your nesting several parts will you need much above this. Even thou my 1200x1200 bed is all Ali (slots) usually half of it has piece of MDF or HDPE spoil board on it.

If your cutting thin Ali plate like 3-4mm then you'll probably want more space and be cutting large single pieces anyway. So then again you'll probably find an MDF spoil board will be used for holding and bed saving reasons.!

Part holding is a challenge and can be pain also it can be very part dependent.? You'll find even with an Ali bed you'll use some form of protective material or spoil board between part and bed.!

Ricardoco
26-02-2013, 05:50 PM
Agree 1200x600 would be my minimum if planning on cutting thicker Aluminium has most Single parts will usually fit in that space and only if your nesting several parts will you need much above this. Even thou my 1200x1200 bed is all Ali (slots) usually half of it has piece of MDF or HDPE spoil board on it.

If your cutting thin Ali plate like 3-4mm then you'll probably want more space and be cutting large single pieces anyway. So then again you'll probably find an MDF spoil board will be used for holding and bed saving reasons.!

Part holding is a challenge and can be pain also it can be very part dependent.? You'll find even with an Ali bed you'll use some form of protective material or spoil board between part and bed.!
Hi Jazz did you make your slots, if so how or did you buy the plate somwhere if so where. I must admit your 1200x1200 seems like a nice size to me as im unlikely to be machining anything larger... Mind you never say never... If i were to go for a solid plate that size at 20mm thick i would be looking for someone else to drill and tap all the holes as I wouldnt look forward to that..

Rick

Jonathan
26-02-2013, 05:56 PM
Hi Jazz did you make your slots, if so how or did you buy the plate somewhere if so where

He used aluminium flat bar, so the strips span the width of the bed with a small gap (12mm ish?) between each strip so you can put a bolt through and use nuts/T-nuts or whatever underneath the bed. Can also skim the strips several times without problems. I went for a single sheet to better contain flood coolant and I'm going to add strips on top to make T-slots.


If i were to go for a solid plate that size at 20mm thick i would be looking for someone else to drill and tap all the holes as I wouldnt look forward to that

50p per hole ;)?

Drilling them is easy if you use the router with a carbide drill - it's tapping that's the tedious bit.

Ricardoco
26-02-2013, 06:02 PM
He used aluminium flat bar, so the strips span the width of the bed with a small gap (12mm ish?) between each strip so you can put a bolt through and use nuts/T-nuts or whatever underneath the bed. Can also skim the strips several times without problems.


@ Jazz..(or Jonathan if you Know) Flat bar say 2" wide ontop of what and fixed how??

I suspect when doing the holes i will get one of those tapping attachments if i go for the single plate.

I can streach to a plate 2000 x 1220 x 10mm at a push for under 600 but will that do the job....


Rick

Jonathan
26-02-2013, 06:39 PM
@ Jazz..(or Jonathan if you Know) Flat bar say 2" wide ontop of what and fixed how??

Jazz has said previously on this forum:


bed made from 40x16 strips spaced 10mm apart to create Tslots.

But I recall him advising that greater than 16mm thick would have been better, simply for the extra strength and I guess you can surface it more times.

JAZZCNC
26-02-2013, 07:20 PM
Hi Jazz did you make your slots, if so how or did you buy the plate somwhere if so where.

Like Jon says used 1.5" x 5/8" (38x16mm) Ali strips with 10mm gaps giving 45mm centres between slots. The slots where cleaned up with 10mm cutter taking the difference away leaving 45mm centres and ensuring parallelism to Axis. (See pics)
Regards drilling and counter bores etc then I clamped the strips in place and the machine drilled and counter bored them in situ. I just tapped the Holes with spiral tap in Hand drill.
My bed frame is 50mm box with braces every 16" which the strips fasten too. The gap between top and bottom of box means no machining or tapping and the T nuts just clamp to under side of strips.
If coolant is need then it's easy enough to make it sealed tray by fastening Ali or galv sheet on underside.

I looked at all ways and at the time this was the cheapest way I could found.

Personally I wouldn't use 10mm has I can flex 16mm at times when clamping hard.

JAZZCNC
26-02-2013, 07:24 PM
But I recall him advising that greater than 16mm thick would have been better, simply for the extra strength and I guess you can surface it more times.

Yes thats correct but more for Strength than surfacing, I've only had to surface mine 1 time and that was only 0.3mm ish.?

Ricardoco
08-03-2013, 08:49 PM
Ok a little more progress today.
838583868387838883898390

Now that all the alignment has been completed the Left and Right gantry supports have now been seperated.

Rick

GEOFFREY
08-03-2013, 09:20 PM
Welding looks good, but the garage looks nearly full!!! G.

Ricardoco
08-03-2013, 09:31 PM
Welding looks good, but the garage looks nearly full!!! G.Thanks G, Luckily its a three car garage and thats, just 1 third, there is an in progress 1932 V8 HotRod taking another third, and a Half spray booth taking up half the other third but luckily they are 21' deep so there is more space than first appears..

Rick

GEOFFREY
08-03-2013, 09:39 PM
Sounds like an interesting garage set-up. What is the hot-rod? Even with your garage looking so full it is 20x tidier than mine. G.

Ricardoco
08-03-2013, 09:58 PM
Sounds like an interesting garage set-up. What is the hot-rod? Even with your garage looking so full it is 20x tidier than mine. G. It could always do with being bigger and tidier..LOL, Its a 1932 Ford 5 Window on a 1940 Chassis, or will be, it should look a little like this..8391
..

Rick

GEOFFREY
09-03-2013, 12:30 AM
WOW! Seeyou on Sunday. G.

Iwant1
09-03-2013, 12:45 AM
Sweet ride, reminds me of a TV show I used to watch, American Hotrod based on Boyd Coddingtons custom shop.

Ricardoco
09-03-2013, 07:38 PM
Sweet ride, reminds me of a TV show I used to watch, American Hotrod based on Boyd Coddingtons custom shop. It will be when its done, Complete Chassis re profiling, Lowered to 6", body over Chassis, 31" cross ply rears (the thin ones) Hemi motor, 6 carbs....and all without Boyd funding levels..

Rick

Ricardoco
10-03-2013, 12:12 AM
Ok today I hooked up Mach3 to the X Axis, Arrived at 200 steps Per/400mmMin/100Acceleration in motor tuning, Now here is where the brain goes mushy and i know ive asked this question before, The Gantry travels 2000mm in 18 seconds, the ballscrew is 10mm pitch, how do the settings in mach3 and the actual speed of the gantry relate to each other..

Rick

Ricardoco
10-03-2013, 03:29 AM
Ok today I hooked up Mach3 to the X Axis, Arrived at 200 steps Per/400mmMin/100Acceleration in motor tuning, Now here is where the brain goes mushy and i know ive asked this question before, The Gantry travels 2000mm in 18 seconds, the ballscrew is 10mm pitch, how do the settings in mach3 and the actual speed of the gantry relate to each other..

Rick

Ok i think i have it.. LOL
200 Steps per Rev x 8 microsteps = 1600 / 10mm pitch screw = 1600/10 = 160 steps per unit. not the 200 i put in, not sure what that will do when i put it in tomorrow when i get in but i will let you know.

I knew ide asked before lol

http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/machine-control-software/4677-help-please-motor-tuning-mach-3-a.html


Rick

Jonathan
10-03-2013, 11:40 AM
I was still trying to work out what the question was!

Ricardoco
15-03-2013, 11:12 AM
Ok finaly Purchased the Rails for the Y Axis.
8469 8470

Ive got 2x GL20TF + Rails at 1300mm, (when they arrive that is)

Rick

dsc
15-03-2013, 02:17 PM
Hi Rick,

can I ask where you got the from?

Regards,
Tom

Ricardoco
15-03-2013, 03:14 PM
Hi Rick,

can I ask where you got the from?

Regards,
Tom

You May.. I got them from Korea..

Rick

Ricardoco
18-03-2013, 01:43 AM
Ok today i put the Y to X registers in and fitted the bed to the registers, thats really all i can do untill the Y rails turn up and then I have the Z machined and fit it, so ive done one of those boring videos just to show the X axis moving on the twin rotating ballnuts and 2510 ballscrews, it is set on the conservative side at the moment and i may just leave it there, X100 input in to mach moves the gantry 1m so thats correct now..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3B74HazzZk

Now that made you excited didnt it?? cmon admit it. ok it didnt me either..

By the way the irritating noise heard when the gantry changes direction is the Clamps holding the gantry on.

Rick

Jonathan
18-03-2013, 02:33 AM
ive done one of those boring videos just to show the X axis moving on the twin rotating ballnuts and 2510 ballscrews,

Bonus points for filming the nuts spinning in the next video...


X100 input in to mach moves the gantry 1m so thats correct now..

Mach3 should be used in milimeters, not centimeters, so going from X0 to X100 (or just moving 100 from the current position) should move 0.1m, not 1m.

Ricardoco
18-03-2013, 02:39 AM
Bonus points for filming the nuts spinning in the next video...



Mach3 should be used in milimeters, not centimeters, so going from X0 to X100 (or just moving 100 from the current position) should move 0.1m, not 1m.

Ok I will upload the one with rotating Ballnuts when i get the A/V sync sorted, and how would you correct the measurement issues.

Rick

Ricardoco
18-03-2013, 06:28 AM
Bonus points for filming the nuts spinning in the next video....

Ok not a great movie i know and the audio was rubbish so i had to substitute it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlA7qdp63w




Mach3 should be used in milimeters, not centimeters, so going from X0 to X100 (or just moving 100 from the current position) should move 0.1m, not 1m.

Ok let me see, its showing 100 on the DRO when it is moving 1000 so that is a 10th so steps per in motor tuning should read 200 x 10 = 2000 and then X100 should move the gantry 100mm yes?

Rick

GEOFFREY
18-03-2013, 10:43 AM
Vids not boring, pics look good. G.

Jonathan
18-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Hard to tell from a video, but it looks to be running smoothly without whipping, which is good.



Ok let me see, its showing 100 on the DRO when it is moving 1000 so that is a 10th so steps per in motor tuning should read 200 x 10 = 2000 and then X100 should move the gantry 100mm yes?

If the step/mm value before, which caused it to move 100cm when commanded 100mm was accurate, then you just need to multiply it by 10.

There's a bit more to it though. You need to make sure that you don't hit the kernel frequency limit in Mach3. It's best if you can to use the lowest frequency, which is 25kHz. This means the port will output a maximum of 25000 pulses per second, so if you divide that by the step/mm value you get the software limited maximum feedrate. For example if it's set to 2000 step/mm, then that's 25000/2000=12.5mm/s or 750mm/min. If that feed-rate is too low, then you either need to reduce the microstepping resolution (e.g quater stepping instead of 1/8th) or raise the kernel frequency.

Ricardoco
18-03-2013, 08:32 PM
Hard to tell from a video, but it looks to be running smoothly without whipping, which is good.



If the step/mm value before, which caused it to move 100cm when commanded 100mm was accurate, then you just need to multiply it by 10.

There's a bit more to it though. You need to make sure that you don't hit the kernel frequency limit in Mach3. It's best if you can to use the lowest frequency, which is 25kHz. This means the port will output a maximum of 25000 pulses per second, so if you divide that by the step/mm value you get the software limited maximum feedrate. For example if it's set to 2000 step/mm, then that's 25000/2000=12.5mm/s or 750mm/min. If that feed-rate is too low, then you either need to reduce the microstepping resolution (e.g quater stepping instead of 1/8th) or raise the kernel frequency.

Ok i went to the workshop and in motor tuning ive set steps per to 20- Velocity to 3000 accl to 200, Oh im using metric, now when you type in X1000 the gantry travels 1M so that much is correct but im not sure it is the only way to do it the drivers are on the lowest setting which is 200 per rev. with four people sitting on the gantry it dosnt evn know you are there..

Rick

Jonathan
18-03-2013, 10:32 PM
ive set steps per to 20 Velocity to 3000 accl to 200, Oh im using metric, now when you type in X1000 the gantry travels 1M so that much is correct but im not sure it is the only way to do it the drivers are on the lowest setting which is 200 per rev.

200mm/s^2 for the acelleration is very low. You should be able to get around 1 to 2 m/s^2.
The motion will be a lot 'smoother' if you use microstepping. I reckon you'll get around 8m/min, so that's 133mm/s. 200 step/rev is 20 step/mm, so 25000/(133*20)=9.4. So you can have anything up to 9.4 times the number of step/rev ... so try 1/8th microstepping.


with four people sitting on the gantry it dosnt evn know you are there..

The overall mass of the gantry doesn't make much difference to the feedrate you can get, it mainly affects the acceleration obtainable (Newton's 2nd law). Increase the acceleration and it will 'notice' plus the people will probably fall off which is an added bonus.

Ricardoco
18-03-2013, 10:44 PM
200mm/s^2 for the acelleration is very low. You should be able to get around 1 to 2 m/s^2.
The motion will be a lot 'smoother' if you use microstepping. I reckon you'll get around 8m/min, so that's 133mm/s. 200 step/rev is 20 step/mm, so 25000/(133*20)=9.4. So you can have anything up to 9.4 times the number of step/rev ... so try 1/8th microstepping..I set the accelleration slow while i was setting things up as i was affraid of missing steps in one of the twin steppers and it all getting out of shape but as you suggest i will speed that up, Ok so how do i set it up to use microstepping then, (I thought i was LOL)




The overall mass of the gantry doesn't make much difference to the feedrate you can get, it mainly affects the acceleration obtainable (Newton's 2nd law). Increase the acceleration and it will 'notice' plus the people will probably fall off which is an added bonus. LOL that would be funny, if not for the fact i was one of them...

Was it good to see your ballnuts working then? and where are these extra points you said i could have.

Rick

Ricardoco
19-03-2013, 04:28 AM
...... Ok so how do i set it up to use microstepping then, (I thought i was LOL)
Rick



Ok i think i have got itLOL

To get 1/8 microstepping.

I have 200 full steps per full revolution of motor as it is a 1.8deg motor.
360degrees (1 full revolution of motor)/200steps=1.8degrees per step
8 Microsteps per full step (1/8 microstep)
200x8=1600 steps per rev (1600 set on the driver)
10mm travel on gantry for 1 revolution of the stepper,
1600 steps/10mm=160 Microsteps per mm set in "steps per" in motor tuning
1mm/160microsteps=.00625mm gantry travel per microstep given 1:1 gear ratio motor to screw.

YES??

Rick

Jonathan
19-03-2013, 07:24 AM
8 Microsteps per full step (1/8 microstep)
200x8=1600 steps per rev (1600 set on the driver)
10mm travel on gantry for 1 revolution of the stepper,
1600 steps/10mm=160 Microsteps per mm set in "steps per" in motor tuning
1mm/160microsteps=.00625mm gantry travel per microstep given 1:1 gear ratio motor to screw.

Perfect :)


where are these extra points you said i could have.

8509

Ricardoco
19-03-2013, 11:27 AM
Ok finaly Purchased the Rails for the Y Axis.
8469 8470

Ive got 2x GL20TF + Rails at 1300mm, (when they arrive that is)

Rick

Well this just goes to show how fast things can arrive. The rails arrived this morning thats 4 days including the weekend, and this is the second time this has happened with this seller and all the way from Korea. Well hats off to them thats all i can say, they are listed as used on the add and to be fair they are immaculate. Magic

less than 200 and free postage as well.

GL20TF+1300mm Used Linear Bearing NB-Nippon Bearing SR20W THK NSK LM Guide CNC | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200906153909?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

Rick

Swarfing
19-03-2013, 06:43 PM
Nice one Rick but Jonathan better watch out, somebody has been stealing his designs :dejection:

Rotary Nut BLR1616+BLK1616+930mm Used THK Rolled Ball Screw Support BK12+BF12 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Nut-BLR1616-BLK1616-930mm-Used-THK-Rolled-Ball-Screw-Support-BK12-BF12-/190811539624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6d4108a8)

Ricardoco
19-03-2013, 07:13 PM
Nice one Rick but Jonathan better watch out, somebody has been stealing his designs :dejection:

Rotary Nut BLR1616+BLK1616+930mm Used THK Rolled Ball Screw Support BK12+BF12 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Nut-BLR1616-BLK1616-930mm-Used-THK-Rolled-Ball-Screw-Support-BK12-BF12-/190811539624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6d4108a8)

LOL Naaa Jonathans are better than that and considerably better priced.
Mind you, if he wants to get some Uni spending money perhaps he should be selling them on Ebay as well..

Rick

Swarfing
19-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Only if he supplies the ballscrew and nut at the same time?

AdCNC
19-03-2013, 07:31 PM
Them ebay jobbies look abit shit IMO

Ricardoco
19-03-2013, 07:36 PM
Them ebay jobbies look abit shit IMO

I must say they do. Jonathans are sturdy, well machined and constructed. I just wacked the motors and ballscrews/Nuts on and away..

Rick

Swarfing
19-03-2013, 08:04 PM
You are really treading on thin ground ground here???? His head won't fit on these pages you keep bigging him up like that :hysterical:

Ricardoco
19-03-2013, 08:18 PM
You are really treading on thin ground ground here???? His head won't fit on these pages you keep bigging him up like that :hysterical:

Yeh you are right Nuff said..

Rick

Ricardoco
28-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Perfect :)



8509

Ok Put all the settings in and im Over the moon the motors sound great it manages 8M p-min as Jonathan said it would (not tried higher) so Ive backed it of to 7 and thats sweet. The steppers sing with those settings. I will do a Video maybe tomorrow. I wrote a quick bit of G-Code (my first bit of G-Code writing.. (Thanks for the tuition i2i)) just to watch the gantry going back and forth and stopping and starting with small travel and big travel just to see if everthing is how it should be, then copied and pasted it several times, then just watched it run for 45 mins, I then tested the wireless pendant and that works great as well... Im a happy bunny now :triumphant:.

Now the Y axis (oh and lots more playing with the X as well..

Rick

GEOFFREY
28-03-2013, 08:32 PM
Congratulations. G.

Lee Roberts
28-03-2013, 09:14 PM
Nice one Rick, looking forward to continued success for you and following religiously.

.Me

Jonathan
28-03-2013, 11:17 PM
I wrote a quick bit of G-Code (my first bit of G-Code writing.. (Thanks for the tuition i2i)) just to watch the gantry going back and forth and stopping and starting with small travel and big travel just to see if everthing is how it should be, then copied and pasted it several times, then just watched it run for 45 min

Try this (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gcode/5843-random-g-code-testing-motor-tuning.html)spreadsheet to generate similar G-Code. Especially if you just test one axis, the machine can seem fine from just jogging around at full speed, or repeated code like you tried, but in reality fail a test with random code. The reason is if you just repeat the same commands and run it for a long time, that's not much better than just running those lines a few times since it's doing the same thing every time, so the currents will be virtually the same every time. If they're randomized then over time you can expect to find if there's a problem.

Edit: also what acceleration have you set it to?

Ricardoco
29-03-2013, 12:12 AM
Try this (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/gcode/5843-random-g-code-testing-motor-tuning.html)spreadsheet to generate similar G-Code. Especially if you just test one axis, the machine can seem fine from just jogging around at full speed, or repeated code like you tried, but in reality fail a test with random code. The reason is if you just repeat the same commands and run it for a long time, that's not much better than just running those lines a few times since it's doing the same thing every time, so the currents will be virtually the same every time. If they're randomized then over time you can expect to find if there's a problem.

Edit: also what acceleration have you set it to?

Cheers Jonathan, I will give that a go, i think i set it to 1000mm sec i will have a check tomorrow.

Rick

Ricardoco
02-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Ok more snippets, Sorted the tuning and did a video, the initial G28 move is at 8m Min and the rest is at 7m Min. and this is a boring video but here it is anyhow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-fQopUAtx8
I actually played with the max feed and had to turn up the kernel speed but got to 13m Min with no problems but I was a bit worried about the amount of torque drop of so backed it off to 8m for nice rapids. Does any know if there is a graph that shows the torque drop off related to rpm of these 4nm nema 24 motors, i cannot find it anywhere..

Rick

GEOFFREY
02-04-2013, 06:57 PM
Great stuff Rick, now lets see some swarf/sawdust. G.

Ricardoco
02-04-2013, 07:09 PM
Great stuff Rick, now lets see some swarf/sawdust. G. LOL the bed will be cast next week and then there is the Y to mount and that will be after the Z backplate arrives.. So its all in flux, Im waiting for the Drag chain, grommets, inline plugs, and the proximity sensors to arrive, then i can chase all the wiring through the frame and through the drag chain (damn that stuff is expensive) there is a bit of welding under the frame to be completed for the shelves for the vacuum pumps, and the dust sucker, the coolant reservour, compressor,VFD, and plasma . But im going as quick as i can cos i want it going..

Rick

GEOFFREY
03-04-2013, 10:18 AM
Sorry Rick, I thought you were a bit further down the line than that. I had not realized you still had so much to do, but at the speed your'e going at it won't be long now. G.

Ricardoco
17-04-2013, 12:13 AM
Well there is a lesson learned!!.

Today I fitted the drag chain, and spent two hours drilling, and routing the cables through the frame back to the control box, Oh how neat it was, i fitted three bright new NPN-NO-6-36v proximity sensors to the X- Axis....LOL oh what fun that was.

Evertime i powered up the driver a sensor triggered, I didnt know what was going on.

I had used some 5 core cable for the steppers leaving 1 spare wire in each cable for the sensor, I had already run some wire up to the gantry for the sensor supply..

So now that i know i will have to use Screened cables on the machine so i dont get all these stray signals.
Can anyone suggest a four core screened cable that wont rip my arm off please, as i will wire the whole machine with what ever i get.

The drivers are 2MA860H Peak 7.2A AC50V-80V DC36V-110V running at 72VAC driving 4NM NEMA 24 Motors

Rick

JAZZCNC
17-04-2013, 12:36 AM
Here you go. CY Cable 4 Core (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html)

Don't run power cables along side signal cables.! Even shielded cables else your asking for trouble.

Ricardoco
17-04-2013, 12:55 AM
Here you go. CY Cable 4 Core (http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html)

Don't run power cables along side signal cables.! Even shielded cables else your asking for trouble.Cheers Jazz.. So how do you get power cables up onto the gantry?

Rick

John S
17-04-2013, 12:56 AM
Dean,
Is that 4 core 4 numbered cores plus earth or 3cores and earth ?

JAZZCNC
17-04-2013, 01:45 AM
Dean,
Is that 4 core 4 numbered cores plus earth or 3cores and earth ?

4core = 3 numbered + Earth Need eyes like super man thou to see numbers not very good in that regards but it's cheap enough and Ok quality.


Cheers Jazz.. So how do you get power cables up onto the gantry?

Rick

Carefully. . .Lol . . . They will be ok in same Cable chain if not too tight Just don't fasten them together with cable ties/tape or owt daft like that.!!

D.C.
17-04-2013, 04:15 AM
Carefully. . .Lol . . . They will be ok in same Cable chain if not too tight Just don't fasten them together with cable ties/tape or owt daft like that.!!

Just a daft thought, but if interference is a problem here would putting a divider in place made of copper tape help isolate the data/power?

JAZZCNC
17-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Just a daft thought, but if interference is a problem here would putting a divider in place made of copper tape help isolate the data/power?

Yes anything that gives some separation will work. The better cable chains like Igus can be bought with dividers that can be inserted.
With higher Power cables like from VFD I run bit of silicone tube between, often it's water pipes, but anything that can keep a bit of separation really.

I find those that have the most troubles with noise are the neat freaks that need everything tied and bound together with cable ties or tape.!!

Ric What voltage are you powering the Prox sensors with.? . . . . Running 24V on signal cables makes a big difference to noise handling has well.!! Often folks use 5V for Limits etc signal cables and get noise, esp if they haven't been too careful with ground or cable routing.!

Ricardoco
17-04-2013, 02:17 PM
Yes anything that gives some separation will work. The better cable chains like Igus can be bought with dividers that can be inserted.
With higher Power cables like from VFD I run bit of silicone tube between, often it's water pipes, but anything that can keep a bit of separation really.

I find those that have the most troubles with noise are the neat freaks that need everything tied and bound together with cable ties or tape.!!

Ric What voltage are you powering the Prox sensors with.? . . . . Running 24V on signal cables makes a big difference to noise handling has well.!! Often folks use 5V for Limits etc signal cables and get noise, esp if they haven't been too careful with ground or cable routing.!

Well, whilst sorting out what ports to use and testing them i used 5V (just to keep things simple and at the right voltages for the board)but they wernt on the machine, it wasnt untill i did all the fiddly threading of the wires through the frame and the cable chain that i got problems, i then tried it on 12v as that is what i wanted to use anyhow, but still hadnt decided how to bring that back down to 5v for the bob.

Rick