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wilfy
23-12-2012, 09:04 PM
now that my garage is starting to be workable i've decided to start clearing out stuff i've been storing for ages.

one thing was a full 8x4 sheet of 25mm mdf i ordered way back in the summer with my OSB for the cladding.. with the intention of creating a nice computer desk for my computer room.

since joining this site i feel the need to plan everything out in google sketchup so i started out with this

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i'd had that curved shape in my head for ages and i'll be honest without sketchup i'd have likely done it free hand with a jigsaw. but through figuring out how to acctually draw the desk with the rounded shape i realised that it's basicly 2 circles of the same radius side by side.

so with all measurements in hand i got out to the garage and proceed to cut the desk using my really shoddy circle jig

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yes thats a piece of mdf with a router stuck to the top of it, rotating around a 3mm drill bit

second circle to cut is only acctually a quarter of the circle and i get left with this
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next i stick a straight edge under the desk connecting the circle to where the edge of the desk finnishes and run my router with a trim bearing bit all the way along and end up with this

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and on the edge of the desk to get a nice smooth finish all i have used is an 18mm round over on the top of the desk and a small 6mm i think round over on the bottom of the desk, the result is something i'm very proud of as i've never achieved something like this before

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test fit the desk on top of the previous desk before i attempt to paint it.. lucky i did as the wall was out and the desk didnt fit, back outside, trim an edge down and bam fitted.. one very happy wilfy. so wanting to always better myself i've decided that i want some kind of cool lighting for this room. i've always been a fan of RGB LEDS and the effects you can achieve. so robbed a friends run of LED's to see how bright they are and more than anything to see if they will provide enough light for me to see the keyboard and other things if i need to.

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on the left is an arduino we have used to rig up the rgb controls as a temp thing untill i can order my lights. my plan is to run a 45 degree router bit with bearing on it all the way round the back of the desk, this should hide the LED's from view and have no glare and we have already tested the angle and i'm happy with the amount of light produced, infact i have the lights on now whilst i'm typing this and i'm more than happy with them.

i'm going to finish the desk in black spray paint and lacquer it so i can cut and polish it back flat so i get a nice glass smooth finish.

martin54
23-12-2012, 10:23 PM
Looks good so far Wilfy, just remember that you will lose a bit of light when you paint it as black so if it is only just giving you the amount of light you would like now you might have to up the leds a bit.
Just something worth thinking about.

Lee Roberts
23-12-2012, 10:54 PM
Nice job mate, dont forget to seal the MDF before paint and a light sand in between coats. Its mad how all this cnc stuff starts to make you think and look at job's isnt it.

.Me

wilfy
23-12-2012, 11:01 PM
oh i know all the downfalls of not sealing mdf, i'm using filler primer to start with get it nice and smooth before i even touch it with black.

as for the desk being black and absorbing light i fully understand that, but i am angling the lights towards the wall and basicly using the wall to reflect the light back in to the room. i cant really go any better than what i have as i'm using the 300leds which are basicly 3rgb leds per 5 cm as far as i'm aware unless using more expensive stuff this is the best you can get for smaller spacing. i suppose i'll have to see how it comes out..at the moment there is more than enough light

Washout
23-12-2012, 11:07 PM
Awesome stuff Wilfy,

Similar to what I am going to do in the new office/studio (workshop is now in another space) - see my Build Log for a pic from Sketchup.

One I thing I did with mine was to make the desk pretty shallow to the wall where the LED/LCD monitors are going, as I very rarely use paper these days and have one of the side areas of the desk for that kind of thing.

The other thing I've been trying to find is the same textured plastic sheeting used to make one of my Razer Sphex mouse mats, which sticks onto a surface and has a kind of metallic grey/graphite texture to it which helps laser/optical mice precision. The idea is to source some of this and then cover the entire desk surface in it, as a. its really easy to clean and b. means I can use a mouse wherever I need it (handy tip is also to use car detailing spray to clean mouse mats as it leaves a very fine layer of synthetic wax, which also assists in precision and lessens fouling).

Cheers


Chris

Iwant1
23-12-2012, 11:42 PM
oh i know all the downfalls of not sealing mdf, i'm using filler primer to start with get it nice and smooth before i even touch it with black.

Nice job with the desk especially liking the circle jig. I'm currently building a car shaped bed for my son and made a similar jig for the wheels and rims. Wish I had my cnc router built already.

Anyway, I wanted to ask which filler primer you are using to seal the edges of the mdf. Its a big search topic and so many different opinions. Some recommend pva glue, some wall filler, shellac, zinsser bin primer, oil based primer. Confusing or what. I've decided to go with a quick drying water based primer from toolstation made by Flag. It is suitable for spirit based paints as I want to paint with gloss for its strength.

My procedure is to paint primer, sand with 120, primer again, then sand with 240, paint gloss, sand with 320 then final coat of gloss.

Thanks Adil

wilfy
24-12-2012, 12:12 AM
i'm just going to treat it like a car panel and i'm using car spray paint from halfords, i'd have really liked to go all out and get proper paint for my spray gun but i can't justify the extra cost of a big tub of lacquer, primer and thinners when i have no plans to spray anything in the near future.

any kind of primer/filler primer/hi-build primer will easily seal mdf and i've been taught to use that stuff and seen it work many times. infact the white you see on the desk at the moment is just white waterbased undercoat from bnq and the only reason i used that is it's all i had and i wanted to smooth of this edge as i plan to use the desk for a bit before i paint it and last time i did this i got a rash on my arms from the bare mdf.


with regards the mouse mat, what i plan to do some time in the future when i get my cnc running is make a template the same outer shape as my mouse mat (steel series frosted glass gaming surface) that i can use one of these bits with Toolstation > Power Tool Accessories > Router Bits > Router Bit Template Cutter (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tool+Accessories/Router+Bits/Router+Bit+Template+Cutter+14+12+x+1/d80/sd2579/p85323) and i'd use the template to help me recess a place in the desk for my mouse mat but at the moment i havnt got the time or patience to do that by hand as i know it's a pain in the ass

martin54
24-12-2012, 12:44 PM
Have you not got an auto paint supplier near you Wilfy?? Far cheaper than Halfords generally. Lighting just wanted to point out that you will lose some even though they are pointing the other way but if you can afford a small reduction then it should be OK, LED's & systems are a whole topic in themselves lol.

Other thing is to make sure you have enough bracing underneath, MDF warps very easily, I had a couple of 19mm mdf tops that started to bow in a few days under their own weight & were only spaning an 800mm unit. Mind you that was up at the unit where there is not any sort of heating & humidity levels are probably quite high, in a house then it might not be anywhere near as bad.

1want1, I would go a bit finer than 320 for a final rub down, 320 will remove far to much of the paint you have put on. 600 would be the minimum I would go but probably 800 or 1000 as your not really looking to remove very much at all, Should just be a quick rub over to aid keying if you have taken your time & primed it properly.

GEOFFREY
24-12-2012, 01:46 PM
Nice desk Willfy, like the led colours (confirms the under 30,s). As boring old f*%t (69) I need the brightest whitest I can get!!!

Merry xmas, G.

Iwant1
24-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Thanks Martin,

didn't realise sanding inbetween paints was for keying, I thought it was to get a smoother finished top coat. Luckily I got some 600 and 1000 from wet sanding a previous mdf project which I sprayed with 2K auto paints. I plan on rolling gloss this time with these quality rollers I found in a local decor shop.

Cheers Adil

martin54
24-12-2012, 02:50 PM
As far as smoothness goes then the better you can get it the better the finished result especially if you are using a spray where the coat thickness will be a lot less than with a brush or roller.
320 may feel flat to your touch but will be more likely to show up with a final coat. If you have preped it properly to start with then any rub down between coats should be minimal.
Those rollers will do an ok job, used rollers like that myself quite a few rimes when customers wanted wooden boards which needed to be painted. Before I got the spray gun that was lol. Just remember not to put the paint on to thick & finish all your strokes in the same direction.

D.C.
24-12-2012, 03:33 PM
since joining this site i feel the need to plan everything out in google sketchup

Ha! I know exactly what you mean. Are you also pottering around the house looking at things thinking that would look so much better if it was engraved? I built a desk like that a few years ago and plonked a couple of big CRT's on it. That taught me how much materials flex under load and how good a torsion box is at fixing the problem.

wilfy
24-12-2012, 03:40 PM
yeah i've not sutck my head around the flex yet, it's gonna be screwed down all 3 sides to some 4x2 i've got already, at the moment it's on top of the old desk while i test fit eveything.

i think i'm going to work out where i stick my legs and feet the most and then in the unused area get some support, at the right side of the desk i acctually want some drawers under it so i know the will go a long way to supporting the weakest part

paint i will have to look in to.. halfords was mentioned as i was planning to rush and get it done asap but i've decided i'm going to take my time. i'd love to be able to get some primer, black and lacquer + thinners from around 35 but it's proving hard work. i've only ever used cellulose from my spray gun. whats the difference between that and acrylic? as the acrylic seems to be cheaper.. is it still as easy to finish as cellulose?

martin54
24-12-2012, 04:07 PM
Differences are generally down to what different types of paint were designed to do but they all get used for purposes they were not originally intended for & as this is internal you would get away with almost any type of topcoat. Acrylic paints are water based so no need for thinners or any sort of special cleaner. You could then use a clear varnish to give satin, matt, gloss look. Should be able to do for 35 squids easily.
As for how to apply well a gloss roller like 1want1 has mentioned will work ok, spraying is possible depending on what sort of spray system you have. Acrylic paint is thicker than cellulose which makes a big difference to using a spray system

wilfy
24-12-2012, 09:43 PM
would you say the paints below should be all i need for spraying from my compressor? as this is looking more reasonable in pricing as i wont need lacquer from what i read of the descriptions and if so how would you recommend i polish it up?? cut with 1k grit wet and dry and then with some cutting compound before polishing?

2K PRIMER CAR PAINT HIGH BUILD GREY 1.25L kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390326794221)
CAR PAINT COLOUR 2K ACRYLIC SUPER BLACK GLOSS 2lt KIT | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390114778984)

Iwant1
24-12-2012, 10:35 PM
These paints give the best finish I've achieved on mdf products and the most durable. Its possible to get a mirror finish with the correct preparation and loads of elbow grease.

The paint may seem cheap but you need to factor in the hardener and thinners, mixing and measuring canisters. Once mixed its thin enough to flow through even the cheapest hvlp spray guns. I use mine with a Lidl spray gun and compressor. I normally give 10mins between coats, and finish with a mist coat where you just hold the gun high up and spray. Get a litre of thinners as it can be used to clean the gun after, or you could just buy a 5ltr of cleaning fluid.

Post spray, I wet sand with 1k-2k wet paper. I never used 3k as the price is ridiculous. Now the finish looks dull and you wonder should I of just left it alone. Buy some Farecla g3 polishing compound and use a damp sponge on a polisher at slow speeds and keep wetting with water in a spray bottle. Don't use angle grinders as they spin too fast and will burn the paint. Leave to dry for a few minutes then wipe away the polishing residue with a microfibre cloth. Now look directly into the piece and see your reflection. Done

When I did my toy kitchen here (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/new-member-introductions/4743-hello-all-finally-ready-start-build-log.html), I used 5 different colours and got tired of mixing paints then cleaning the gun, over and over again. Thats why I.m thinking of just using gloss with a roller. But now that I've explained the process, I'll probably still spray my current project, a car bed for my son. Hope it helps.

On the compressor don't forget to use a pressure regulator and water trap. sets correct pressure for the gun operation and stops water from the compressor feeding into the paint.

Hope this helps, good luck

wilfy
24-12-2012, 11:00 PM
These paints give the best finish I've achieved on mdf products and the most durable. Its possible to get a mirror finish with the correct preparation and loads of elbow grease.

The paint may seem cheap but you need to factor in the hardener and thinners, mixing and measuring canisters. Once mixed its thin enough to flow through even the cheapest hvlp spray guns. I use mine with a Lidl spray gun and compressor. I normally give 10mins between coats, and finish with a mist coat where you just hold the gun high up and spray. Get a litre of thinners as it can be used to clean the gun after, or you could just buy a 5ltr of cleaning fluid.

Post spray, I wet sand with 1k-2k wet paper. I never used 3k as the price is ridiculous. Now the finish looks dull and you wonder should I of just left it alone. Buy some Farecla g3 polishing compound and use a damp sponge on a polisher at slow speeds and keep wetting with water in a spray bottle. Don't use angle grinders as they spin too fast and will burn the paint. Leave to dry for a few minutes then wipe away the polishing residue with a microfibre cloth. Now look directly into the piece and see your reflection. Done

When I did my toy kitchen here (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/new-member-introductions/4743-hello-all-finally-ready-start-build-log.html), I used 5 different colours and got tired of mixing paints then cleaning the gun, over and over again. Thats why I.m thinking of just using gloss with a roller. But now that I've explained the process, I'll probably still spray my current project, a car bed for my son. Hope it helps.

On the compressor don't forget to use a pressure regulator and water trap. sets correct pressure for the gun operation and stops water from the compressor feeding into the paint.

Hope this helps, good luck


i've got a friend who love polishing so hopefully i'll let him do the hard work with his buffer.

i dont know if you clicked the links i posted but the primer comes with the hardner and the gloss comes with 1ltr of thinners to mix with 1.5ltr mixed paint/hardner and they say use 10% so in my eyes i should still have a nice bit of thinners left for cleaning if i'm good.

i have sprayed one thing before with my gun but again that was cellulose
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above is my one and only attempt at spray gun painting and that was primer, black followed by 3 coats of lacquer each with a different colour of metal flake in it, i learnt a hell of a lot about fabrication and painting whilst doing that build and while i wouldnt sell something like that off now, looking back it was a hell of a lot better than my dads previous attempt. incase anyone is curious about that build i believe you can view the whole album here (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.170407555366.246919.704100366&type=1&l=15e0acb389) you will even notice my cheap ass measuring jugs from asda.. sod buying these expensive painting measuring jugs lol

martin54
25-12-2012, 12:08 AM
Says you can spray them but doesn't tell you with what & what sort of nozzle size so might be worth contacting them before ordering. My air driven spray gun never gets used these days, the HVLP does pretty much every type of paint & doesn't matter if it's oil based, solvent or water based. Even some of the cheap ones give good results. I've got a range of guns with different sized containers & different sized nozzles. Cleaning isn't to bad but then any type of cleaning is a pain lol. Have sprayed cellulose, acrylic(water based household type), emulsion, water based & giclee varnish & plastidip with it with some great results. Also got a few disposable type sprays where you get a glass jar with a charged spray bottle that screws onto the jar, quick & easy to clean up & results are passable if not the best. Quite good for little touch up jobs but not that cheap to use as you can't recharge them which is a real shame.

Lee Roberts
25-12-2012, 12:16 AM
These paints give the best finish I've achieved on mdf products and the most durable. Its possible to get a mirror finish with the correct preparation and loads of elbow grease.

The paint may seem cheap but you need to factor in the hardener and thinners, mixing and measuring canisters. Once mixed its thin enough to flow through even the cheapest hvlp spray guns. I use mine with a Lidl spray gun and compressor. I normally give 10mins between coats, and finish with a mist coat where you just hold the gun high up and spray. Get a litre of thinners as it can be used to clean the gun after, or you could just buy a 5ltr of cleaning fluid.

Post spray, I wet sand with 1k-2k wet paper. I never used 3k as the price is ridiculous. Now the finish looks dull and you wonder should I of just left it alone. Buy some Farecla g3 polishing compound and use a damp sponge on a polisher at slow speeds and keep wetting with water in a spray bottle. Don't use angle grinders as they spin too fast and will burn the paint. Leave to dry for a few minutes then wipe away the polishing residue with a microfibre cloth. Now look directly into the piece and see your reflection. Done

When I did my toy kitchen here (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/new-member-introductions/4743-hello-all-finally-ready-start-build-log.html), I used 5 different colours and got tired of mixing paints then cleaning the gun, over and over again. Thats why I.m thinking of just using gloss with a roller. But now that I've explained the process, I'll probably still spray my current project, a car bed for my son. Hope it helps.

On the compressor don't forget to use a pressure regulator and water trap. sets correct pressure for the gun operation and stops water from the compressor feeding into the paint.

Hope this helps, good luck

Thanks for posting that info, will refer back to this. Have you got any pic's of the results from doing it the way you describe because it reads fascinating when you think of what mdf is like as just bare material.

.Me

Lee Roberts
25-12-2012, 12:23 AM
Scrap the request for pics, just been to your log and viewed the toy kitchen, seen it before but new it was worth another look at the pics. It sounds like i've got the same spray gun and compressor as you but the B'n'Q version, hoping to use it to spray our pine bed in satin gloss to bring it upto date, bit cheap of me i know but its an expensive one and rock solid (4" Corner posts/legs) so to good to just replace for new.

Sounds like it could come out well, again thanks for the info !

.Me

Iwant1
25-12-2012, 12:34 AM
Hi Lee,

you're welcome. Here's a link to my introduction page (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/new-member-introductions/4743-hello-all-finally-ready-start-build-log.html) where there are pictures of the kitchen I made. It's over a year old with kids battering it senseless, one kid kicked in the cooker door and the perspex was fixed so good that it cracked rather than pop off. Seriously they don't have any respect for our efforts. But I'm glad to say the paint looks as good as it was on day 1. Will try to take some close ups to show the reflections, and the type of finish possible with mdf. The colours are funky as I wanted it attractive to children. Everyone who see it, say, why don't you make loads of these kitchens and sell it to celebrities, probably because they got the dosh for this kind of quality. The write up was my version of many hours of trawling wood working forums for painting mdf. A lot of people try to get piano gloss shine to custom speaker boxes using this method, so I used the best bits, and wrote my experiences.

While I'm at it I'll post a vid of the electronics which make the whole kitchen come to life. its Picaxe based.

Adil

audioandy
25-12-2012, 01:25 AM
Guys

Just a word of warning, I used to be in the vehicle repair industry and 2K paint is carcinogenic, this was used in a fully filtered low bake spray booth with air fed full face spray mask.
Here is the HSE recommendations from the product linked above.

Respiratory protection: Air-fed respiratory equipment should be worn when this product is sprayed. Other people nearby should be similarly protected if exposure cannot be controlled to below the
occupational exposure limit and engineering controls and methods cannot reasonable be improved.
Dry sanding, welding and/or flame cutting of the dry paint film will give rise to dust and/or hazardous fumes. Wet sanding should be used wherever possible. If exposure cannot be
avoided by the provision of local exhaust ventilation, suitable respiratory protective equipment should be used. Further information on respiratory protective equipment is available in HSE
publication "Respiratory Protective Equipment" Third Edition ISBN 011 886382 7.
Hand protection: When skin exposure may occur, advice should be sought from glove suppliers on appropriate types. Barrier creams may help to protect exposed areas of skin but are not substitutes
for full physical protection, and should not be applied once exposure has occurred.
Eye protection: Eye protection designed to protect against liquid splashes should be worn.
Skin protection: Cotton or cotton/synthetic overalls or Coveralls are normally suitable. Grossly contaminated clothing should be removed and the skin washed with soap and water or a proprietary skin
cleaner.

martin54
25-12-2012, 01:48 AM
Andy is that true of the acrylic paints as well?? I know the old 2 pack paints have pretty much been replaced with safer options & had assumed that the acrylic paints were a part of that along with the water based paints they now do. Although I have used 2K paints in the past that was many years ago before all the health & safety stuff came along, back then you were lucky to get just a dust mask lol.

Iwant1
25-12-2012, 02:36 AM
You beat me to it Andy.

Was just about to mention how dangerous the paint can be once atomized. The auto paint supplier I bought my paints from recommended this 3m mask (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-SPRAY-PARTICAL-SPRAYING-MASK-RE-USEABLE-3M-/160657156104?pt=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item2567e9a808) for occasional diy use. But you can also get this mask (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gerson-2K-Paint-Respirator-Face-Mask-Smart-Repair-/150968438151?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item23266b8d87) specifically for this paint with replaceable filters. I suppose when using 2k daily for a living then a its vital you use a air fed mask with positive pressure, but for my use which is once in a blue moon, I used the mask in the first link.

Also in the kit should be goggles, gloves, and a full body suit, which should be taken off before entering your home. Also try to spray as far away from your home as possible and away from passers by. I did it at the end of my garden under a cheap collapsible pergola with open sides. The more fresh air around you the better. I have asthma and didn't find any difficulties breathing what so ever. This is just my experience and I'm not telling anyone to go for it or saying its safe, but each should do their own research and come up with their own decision.

Adil

D.C.
25-12-2012, 12:24 PM
Iwant1 merry christmas mate and awesome work by the way.

If you are going to do another post about the paint finishing, could you post it in a new thread in

METAL & WOOD WORKING - Material Finishing Tips & Techniques (http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/material-finishing-tips-techniques/)

That way we fight stand a chance of finding it again when we need your very useful advice. :)

Iwant1
25-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Merry Christmas and no problem, maybe a MOD could split this thread and we could carry it on there. Then Wilfy can carry on with his desk build. Sorry dude, lol

m_c
25-12-2012, 04:46 PM
I'm glad somebody pointed out the hazards of 2K paint.

I'm not sure what the current state of legislation is regards to 2K paint, but there is a big push towards waterbased/acrylic paint due to emissions/polution.
Acrylic paint isn't as bad for you, however I wouldn't want to be breathing it in on a regular basis.
I know the justification for cellulose paints still being available, is for restoration work, as no modern paint can match the finish (if you've seen celulose finish, you get a not quite gloss finish)

HVLP is the way to go now, as more paint ends up where you want it, instead of in the air!
For smaller items I find gravity fed is better, and even a cheap gun can produce good results. The last major item I painted was this -
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8308/7894722212_f9d3172197.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mc_mtb/7894722212/)
237_PaintedWing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mc_mtb/7894722212/) by mc_mtb (http://www.flickr.com/people/mc_mtb/), on Flickr

However that was with tractor enamel, which is an oil based paint.

wilfy
25-12-2012, 09:35 PM
i'm happy for you to talk paint finnishes in here tbh as its relevant to my desk, but if you want to split it out again i'm happy with that, i can easily follow the other thread.

i got lucky today whilst at the parents for dinner, found half a 5l tin of lacquer and half a tin of activator that i used previously on my dads build that i linked further up.. so all i need now is primer and colour.. knowing that i can just polish this lacquer back until i'm happy with it, it's possible i may primer and gloss with rattle cans, but i will certainly price up a tin of primer/thinners and the black as i'd rather have some spare primer lying around.. i'll post pics up of it later on as i thought i used cellulose but u guys got me thinking now.

as for mask i used the 3M one as linked above to do the build and thats about the only protection i used, i wasnt aware my paint needed any special kind of ventilation