Paints and finishes

[Washout]

Hi Guys,

Watching Wilfy's thread on his computer desk I thought I would start one here (as suggested by Lee), so the knowledge isn't lost "off topic".

I have a question - what is HVLP?

Also some contribution - I have been a member of and absorbed a bunch of information over a number of years from www.detailingworld.com (http://www.detailingworld.com) and must admit I do have a case of Obsessive Car Detailing (OCD ;) ). If you look at the "pros" doing their stuff on their you should be able to (with the right tools and compounds) get a shiny finish from almost any paint/lacquer combination and also what to look for in terms of "no no's" in spray finishes i.e. the stuff alot of these guys have to correct on quite frankly car finishes, which the manufacturers should know better about.

For the beginner I would recommend a random orbital polisher, as it is the safest way of polishing paintwork/lacquer, or if you have the time and patience to learn a rotary polisher. More importantly though is the use of decent "dinimishing abrasive" polishing compounds which essentially (if worked correctly) break down into finer and finer abrasives which get the results the guys on that forum achieve. I have succesfully used the techniques (with some expense on polishes and polishers) on a number of materials from my car (pic attached of what is now a 7 year old vehicle - 5 years old when the pic was taken), composites (carbon fibre/kevlar etc) to mild steel and the use of the right abrasives and tools will get a mirror finish every time. I also use detailing spray and especially Megs APC (All Purpose Cleaner) for many domestic cleaning and protective chores (detailing spray on windows for example is awesome as it shines like you wouldn't believe and prevents "dirt" build up in the rain as the rain doesn't get to stay on the windows to deposit the crap that's often in it.

BTW for polishing I use the Menzerna polishes (various grades) and Lake Country pads, dependant on what I am polishing and how shiny the finish needs to be.

Apologies for the ramble, but if you look at some of the finishes/restorations achieved on that forum the knowledge there is well worthwhile, even though there are not many actual spraying experts there.

Cheers


Chris

[AdCNC]

HVLP stands for high velocity low pressure.

[m_c]

High Volume Low Pressure ;-)

[AdCNC]

Ooops tip of the slong slip of the tong thats the one :-D

[Washout]

Thanks guys - will have to look into that , although it sounds like a recipe for orange peel ;)

[martin54]

Thanks guys - will have to look into that , although it sounds like a recipe for orange peel ;)


Operates at a much lower pressure than more traditional type spray systems which leads to less paint in the air & more actually where you want it, makes it possible to be more accurate with the spray gun. Systems will spray just about any kind of paint/liquid.
Even with cheap hand held electric spray guns it is possible to get some very good results from what I have seen although you are more limited with the type of product you can spray. System I have allows the spray guns to be interchanged & covers just about everything.
As with most things then yes it does take a bit of practice but it is not as difficult to learn as a standard high pressure spray & is more forgiving in general. Some good videos about & worth a look but yes it is still possible to get an orange peel effect lol

[wilfy]

so... it turns out it was acrylic i used previously and all i used to protect myself back then was a 3M mask as per the other thread.... is it really that bad that you should suit up and keep the clothes you used out of the way of the house??

7753

it has all the warnings on the back about full body protection and wearing a certain niosh approved breathing mask.

if we put aside the safety issues... as far as spraying something as simple as a desk, now that i have this lacquer i'm pretty sure that aslong as there is something the resembles black beneath the lacquer i'll be able to get the finish i want for my desk.

questions though if i use this lacquer.. what paint can i use before it? could i for instance use of the shelf spray cans of primer and black and then blast over with this stuff straight away or will they react? also do i need thinners with the above paint? i've got a feeling its 1 part lacquer to 0.5 activator and 10% thinners.. can anyone confirm?

[m_c]

2K isn't good for you.

The acrylic mentioned in this thread, can be applied straight out the tin without any activator/hardener, and is what most aerosols are now as it's low volatile (basically has minimal ingredients that cause health/enviromental issues). It's actually a bit of a generic term, as it can be mixed with other bases to create things like 2K.

I know there's a deadline coming up (or it's maybe passed) for bodyshops to stop using High Volatile (Organic Compound) paints, and switch to water based, however I'm not sure if that's still a 2pack system or not. There is a lot of upset over it, as waterbased paints aren't as easy to work with. I should really pay a bit more attention to the bodyshop sections of all the trade mags I read!

[GEOFFREY]

Chris,I love the car, it looks fantastic. I have a 2000 XKR which also looks good, but not as shiny as yours. does your Jag live in a garage all the time, or does it sometimes get wet? G.

[Washout]

Thanks Geoffrey,

The car now lives in a garage, but until I moved two weeks ago was on the driveway. Correct washing technique is essential to avoid swirling the clear coat (use two buckets - one for clean water and one to rinse with a wool wash mitt and grit guards in them to get the scratchy stuff off of the mitt) and correcting swirls every couple of years or so (that is a 2-3 day process for me). Also use a decent wax to help protect the clear coat (I use Dodo Juice, which is kind of the middle range of waxes, which can go up to several hundreds of pounds for a jar).

Good to hear there's another Jaaag owner on this site and if you haven't already found and joined the XKEC its very worthwhile. I also hope you have discovered and corrected some of the V8's achilles heels, but if not let know and I'll let you know some of the importnant ones for a pre-2003 XK/XKR (timing chain tensioners should be high on the list) and also an independant who I have used for many years, once the warranty ran out.

Oh here's a pic of a more up to date vintage, with some subtle mods made - mesh grill, smoked or clear repeaters, lowered number plate and some you can't see like the Quaife LSD, lowered suspension, poly bushes (mostly taking out stuff designed to a price for stuff designed to a spec).

Cheers


Chris

[GEOFFREY]

Hi Chris, most impressive. New grill really does improve the looks (bit more like the XKR!! ). Three days to clear the swirls-wow-guess mine will have to stay a bit swirly. Thanks for your comment about problems, the only probllem I have is a fault light on the active cc that the auto electrician cannot clear. He has tried a new radar unit and a new ECM, to no avail. He is now checking out the loom. Each effort seems to clear the fault, only for it to reappear after about 20 miles or so. The AE is a bit of a jag spcialist, but is struggling. The car has done about 72K and has always been maintained. any suggestions would be welcomed. Note to the Mod, Iam aware this is a cncsite, not Jag!! sorry, but I need any help I can get. Regards, Geoff.

[martin54]

Geofrey, they need to add another section like the signmaking forum I use. They have an off topic section where you can pretty much talk about anything you want to, with something like that you can discuss Jaguar or anything else you want without feeling you are upsetting anyone & not hijacking other threads lol.

[wilfy]

so... it turns out it was acrylic i used previously and all i used to protect myself back then was a 3M mask as per the other thread.... is it really that bad that you should suit up and keep the clothes you used out of the way of the house??

7753

it has all the warnings on the back about full body protection and wearing a certain niosh approved breathing mask.

if we put aside the safety issues... as far as spraying something as simple as a desk, now that i have this lacquer i'm pretty sure that aslong as there is something the resembles black beneath the lacquer i'll be able to get the finish i want for my desk.

questions though if i use this lacquer.. what paint can i use before it? could i for instance use of the shelf spray cans of primer and black and then blast over with this stuff straight away or will they react? also do i need thinners with the above paint? i've got a feeling its 1 part lacquer to 0.5 activator and 10% thinners.. can anyone confirm?


can anyone answer the above ?? hopefully i can use some cheap primer and black gloss spray cans i've found on ebay and then spray a few layers of the above stuff over the top and buff it back to make it glass like...

[martin54]

Wilfy, quick search seemed to indicate that the paint was associated with Jawel & all info relevant to their 2k paints, this link gives all the details plus a guide on spray settings.

Jawel Paints online ordering for Car Paint, Tools and Equipment.Technical data sheets. (http://www.jawel.co.uk/tech_data.htm)

End of the day it's only you who can decide & anyone who told you it would be ok for a little job would be wrong to do so in my opinion. Normally problems with stuff like this is due to long term exposure rather than a once in a while use but there is always a risk even for occasional users. Personally I would use a water based acrylic paint, finish might not be as good but it would be good enough for me. Pretty sure you could still get a finish you would really be proud of with a different type of paint if you used some of the finishing products/techniques that have been mentioned by Chris.

[Iwant1]

Wilfy, I'm at the same stage as you regards painting an mdf product.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the above question but on my project, I've decided to go with the flocked foam rollers I linked in your earlier thread. I'm using standard water based acrylic primer, 1 coat on edges first, then 2 coats all over with sanding inbetween. For the top coats I've decided to use plain old non drip gloss with the same rollers, 2 stretched out coats with light sanding. I've started priming and sanding and soon should have paint on something so you could see the finish I get and maybe follow. If the gloss flattens out as I hope I should get a nice flat shiny finish, as the prep work will be of high quality.

Cheers Adil

[wilfy]

Wilfy, quick search seemed to indicate that the paint was associated with Jawel & all info relevant to their 2k paints, this link gives all the details plus a guide on spray settings.

Jawel Paints online ordering for Car Paint, Tools and Equipment.Technical data sheets. (http://www.jawel.co.uk/tech_data.htm)

End of the day it's only you who can decide & anyone who told you it would be ok for a little job would be wrong to do so in my opinion. Normally problems with stuff like this is due to long term exposure rather than a once in a while use but there is always a risk even for occasional users. Personally I would use a water based acrylic paint, finish might not be as good but it would be good enough for me. Pretty sure you could still get a finish you would really be proud of with a different type of paint if you used some of the finishing products/techniques that have been mentioned by Chris.

hmmm.. i understand the concern regarding using that paint, but the fact is, i have it, ive used it before i wore a suitable mask previously and that was the only precaution i took, if i use it again i'm confined to a garage this time, i'm happy to wear a disposable fully body suit and will discard any clothes i spray with before i enter the house + i will have another mask to use.

all i want to do with this paint is lacquer my desk after spraying it with hopefully some cheap spray cans. if i cant do it this way the cost of paint for my desk is going to go from about £15 to £50+ and leave me with a lot of paint i dont need and will likely not use again for another number of years again.

[martin54]

OK let me put it this way Wilfy, I know quite a few mechanics who have been using 2k paints for donkeys years mostly without much in the way of protection & they are all alive & well, none of them were aware of any real risks when they started & most of them still use 2k paint & will probably continue to do so as long as they can get it. BUT the risks that are associated with these paints are now known about so it would be irresponsible for me to say "go ahead & use it you will be fine for a small job like this"........ That's your choice to make. In all honesty if I had it lying about I would probably use it myself but then during 20 years in the RN I was exposed to all sorts of nasty stuff that now requires some serious health & safety precautions.

1want1, long as you make sure the surface is good before you apply any primer/undercoat & you rub it down & fill any gaps after the first primer coat then you should be fine. Biggest mistake people make is to think the paint will hide minor imperfections but in actual fact in most cases it just highlights them lol. Don't buy a cheap top coat & if you are using a normal houshold gloss on something like a table then it will really need some sort of hard clear coat over the top. Water based acrylics are good but they are not cheap.