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View Full Version : 4 Axis CNC Milling Mc....which and where?



Russ
17-01-2013, 03:39 PM
Ok guys I'm in the market for a half decent 4 axis CNC Milling machine with ATC option capable of small scale manufacture and Proto-typing don't mind whether New or Reconditioned.....so hit me with some makes and places to buy.....what you got......Cheers

Chas
17-01-2013, 05:14 PM
You wish to be milling mainly ___________, & your budget is ______?

Not being nosey, but you could spend either 5k, 15k or 150k.

Give us a chance to help ya will ya :rolleyes:

Ricardoco
17-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Hi Russ, and welcome, as Chas has stated you will need to specify the material type you wish to machine, a rough machine size taking into consideration what you may wish to machine in the future.

I dont think the budget is an important question as you are asking advice for a half decent machine and i expect when you get the reply you will either like the price or you wont, although the ATC option will considerably effect the final tag it has on it.

The only other question that comes to mind is do you want a commercially made machine or a home machinist machine IE one custom built by one of the people in the know..


Rick

Chas
17-01-2013, 06:45 PM
Just spotted your 'New Boy' post Russ.

Spookily, we have several things in common.

IIWY, I'd be looking more at the Tormach than anything else, cheaper than that is going to be hard work & more expensive than that is going to be lots n lots of money.

You'd need to be very lucky to get one 2nd hand in the UK.

Your cheapest option would be something along the lines of a Seig X3 with a CNC conversion kit, your most expensive would be something like a Haas TM or mini mill. The current Syil's fall into an area that I like to stay out of. The importer is a nice bloke & will help you beyond the best of his ability, but support for them isn't a patch on Tormach's.

I think 'John S' of this parish might also be able to help you.

What bikes have you got & what do you want to make for 'em?

Russ
17-01-2013, 07:41 PM
Budget 3K to 10K maybe a tad more for the right machine this is only for my shed so not really needing something tipping the scales at 5 tons needs to be vertical (Space) and Ideally doesn't want to be made in China.....if you get my drift.....cheers......(might not be an option though)
@Chas....I got 2012 KTM RC8R and a 2012 KTM 690 SMCR.....epic.....shed loads of Billet Ally for KTM's but sadly mostly for the SXF / EXC machines I'd be looking at thins such as Brake and clutch Levers, rad caps fuel caps Foot peg mounting various barckets of one sort or another but I wouldn't be limiting myself to just this brand custom machined parts to your requirements would be something I'd be looking at I've researched the Tormach seems like a nice bit of kit especially with the ATC there are others I know Marchant Dice sell small units dugard get some nice used machines.........Once I can get my greedy hands on a Noomeo Optnum Scanner then i'll only be bounded to what I could make by my own imagination.....I have so many Ideas my brain is bursting......Solidworks and CAMworks will be working overtime.....LOL

i2i
17-01-2013, 07:54 PM
what size of work envelope do you need xyz.

Chas
17-01-2013, 07:54 PM
I have so many Ideas my brain is bursting......Solidworks and CAMworks will be working overtime.....LOL

<SNORT>. 'kinell, we have soo much in common.

My brain was once bursting like yours & in some respects it's still bursting. I paid 3.5k for a Syil SX3 5yrs ago. So far it's earned me 28k. I have no regrets, but I'd give my left bollok to go back 5yrs & choose the Tormach instead !

I don't think the scanner/probe is as important as you might think !

Again, IIWY, I'd go Tormach.

John S
17-01-2013, 08:43 PM
No contest, Tormach if you want all the features you have stated.

Chas,
Why go back 5 years, if it's earnt you 28K sell the Syil and move on

Chas
17-01-2013, 08:54 PM
No contest, Tormach if you want all the features you have stated.

Chas,
Why go back 5 years, if it's earnt you 28K sell the Syil and move on

If only John . . . if only. So many other pies in the sky have to be juggled into place beforehand.

To put it frankly, I'm not yet in a position to risk a 15k purchase in my current circumstances.

I need a shoulder at this moment in time, on the grand scale of things, not a very big shoulder, but a shoulder none the less :-(

Al25
18-01-2013, 12:28 AM
Again Ive heard all good things about Tormach. Importing is so damn expensive

Russ
21-01-2013, 09:24 AM
anyone got an opinion on this? also on the supplier 'Axminster' there about 10 miutes down the road from me part of the reason I'm looking at this Sieg machinealthough I didn't want Taiwanese or chinese but if Axminster warrant them?

seig-kx3s-milling-machine (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-kx3s-cnc-mill-prod864995/)

D.C.
21-01-2013, 11:44 AM
Might want to ask John S, I think he used to work for Sieg.

IanS1
21-01-2013, 12:29 PM
anyone got an opinion on this? also on the supplier 'Axminster' there about 10 miutes down the road from me part of the reason I'm looking at this Sieg machinealthough I didn't want Taiwanese or chinese but if Axminster warrant them?

seig-kx3s-milling-machine (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-kx3s-cnc-mill-prod864995/)

Don't dismiss Taiwan machinery completely. Yes you can get some rubbish machinery from Taiwan but if you are prepared to pay you can also get some world class machinery from there too. I've been importing CNC Spring & Wire forming machinery from Taiwan for over 15 years. Our latest machines use up to 21 axis and can easily compete with German & Japanese machinery on quality, speed & accuracy and are generally 25-30% cheaper.

Some videos on Youtube here: NuCoil HX-60 Double Torsion 1-3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNftIMLbh5A) and here: NuCoil GX-40 Double Torsion Wire Form - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIWpbxx0YGg)

i2i
21-01-2013, 12:36 PM
I didn't want Taiwanese or chinese but if Axminster warrant them?

seig-kx3s-milling-machine (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-kx3s-cnc-mill-prod864995/)They all give you a warranty, but what is that worth. The minimal level machine you should go for is a tormach, i would set my sights a lot higher than that.

Again, what dimensions do you need on each axis, xyz movement.?

Russ
21-01-2013, 06:06 PM
reckon on an envelope size around these sort of figures 300mmx 250mmx 150mm thuis should give me a varied product size range, I do like the Tormach 1100 mill but it's all the poncing around importing etc and by the time you've done that it's twice the price....well you know what I mean....anyhow this sieg machine is just down the road from me see it touch it (then rubbish it...LOL) I'm waiting for them to get back to me with a price complete with the 4 axis and whether it has an ATC option should be interesting
I'll be honest it's a bit of minefield out there with regards to CNC Milling machines do you buy new, used, which make, which model I mean I got a few criteria it has to fill like it's got have a 240V Power Supply (as it'll be running in my garage off the mains) it needs to weigh less than 1500kg, be no wider than 1200mm, be enclosed, be quiet(ish), have a 4th Axis, have ATC option.......am I dreaming does such a thing exist

Russ
21-01-2013, 06:49 PM
just totted up my ideal Tormach see below

8002

8003

the shipping without the Machine and deluxe stand comes to $2500+ the CNC Machine and Stand are going to be at least double that (call for quote) so I reckon $10,000 to ship that's more than half the cost of the machine.....LOL.....just to get it landed then there'll be her majesty adding another 12% import duty and 20% in VAT.........hahaha.....I reckon this $17,000 (10,750) machine will end up costing another 6000 to ship + 12% inport duty + 2010 = 18760 then 20% VAT on that lot giving a grand total of 22,512.......you might be able to get away with the VAT as it's classed as Workshop Machinary but then you'll have to be buying through a Ltd Co.........Blimey!!!



it's still a nice machine though

AdCNC
21-01-2013, 07:53 PM
Have a word with Hurco about the New VM5i thats coming out. i think its been launched in the US but not here yet and I'm sure that it will run off single phase worth inquiring. Good machines Hurco's are ask Oscar I'm sure he will agree.

Also for the money if it does indeed cost that for a Tormach then i would seriously look at Hurco as its in a different league altogether.

Ive personally got a Hurco and it serves me well and does everything i expect, sometimes more :)

Ricardoco
21-01-2013, 10:53 PM
just totted up my ideal Tormach see below

8002

8003

the shipping without the Machine and deluxe stand comes to $2500+ the CNC Machine and Stand are going to be at least double that (call for quote) so I reckon $10,000 to ship that's more than half the cost of the machine.....LOL.....just to get it landed then there'll be her majesty adding another 12% import duty and 20% in VAT.........hahaha.....I reckon this $17,000 (10,750) machine will end up costing another 6000 to ship + 12% inport duty + 2010 = 18760 then 20% VAT on that lot giving a grand total of 22,512.......you might be able to get away with the VAT as it's classed as Workshop Machinary but then you'll have to be buying through a Ltd Co.........Blimey!!!



it's still a nice machine though
Ok here is what i do with the shipping, and i only wish i could do it for you.. I asked at a few of those american car shows here in the uk what they did to import parts, before long i had enough space on a container to import two V8 Hemi engines and gear boxes back to in the UK for less than 400 for the shipping, i know its a long shot but they often have a little space left on the container that needs filling before it is shipped, and the promis of custom made parts has a good effect, I did have to collect from port though..


Rick

D.C.
23-01-2013, 05:20 AM
Have you considered second hand?

If you can rearrange the shed it is surprising how little industrial size machinery goes for.

Welcome to Asset Bidder (http://www.assetbidder.com/)

Wombilly
25-01-2013, 12:47 AM
axyz is a good option, Do not buy Emach brand new, used ones are good, as I used to build and service them. as for budget, without atc option, a 1250 x 1250 m/c will set you back 14 to 18k brand new, used around 4.5 to 8k. with ATC add another 1 to 2k on used prices.

Keep a look out on www.lotsurf.com (http://www.lotsurf.com) ( or co.uk ) they do have them come in at times.

Russ
25-01-2013, 09:23 AM
Thanks guys, definitely considering second hand.......I seem to be falling for the Denford VMC range seems to fit all my requirements....just need to find one with 4th Axis, ATC and Flooc cooling

Russ
06-02-2013, 07:27 PM
I had a look at this last weekend the KX3S-SIEG the only downside for me is that there's no ATC Option and it doesn't come with the 4th axis although it's prewired for it......I got to say it was a tad bigger than I thought it was going to be and the quality looked pretty good the spindle post was approx' 4" Sq solid steel it was all rather substantial and the controller boards looked good quality too....but then I don't have any experience of these things......cost 6995 delivered the 4th axis adds another 900 but he said there'd be a deal on that (you bet there would be :) ) anyways I think I'm going to hang fire untill I find myself a secondhand Denford VMC 1300 with 4th Axis and ATC....thought I'd post up anyways

8166816781688169

Chas
06-02-2013, 09:07 PM
7k for a KX3 ! How does that compare to an X3 with a 'respected' CNC kit fitted?

900 for a 4th axis ! The one supplied with my Syil SX3 is still sat in the cabinet unused in it's original grease, is it worth 500?

I've heard rumblings from one or two private individuals over the years who've bought ex school Denfords & found Denford extremely difficult to work with in regards to supplying software & manuals etc. It might be that they 'prefer' to deal with educational establishments only. Situation may have change, but it might be worth hunting down a few private owners before you set your heart on one.

P.S. Who's the dodgy geezer in photo 4? I can't say I'd buy a 7k mill off him :glee:

Swarfing
06-02-2013, 10:06 PM
I would be tempted to look at the RF45 versions as it has a much bigger table. Arc though have the KX3 for under 5K?

Swarfing
06-02-2013, 10:08 PM
Mind you the Syil's come with a lot of extra's?

Russ
07-02-2013, 10:55 AM
@Chas

dodgey geezer was the Axminster Sales chap..... :) very nice and not at all pushy didn't big it up more than what it was...thought I'd better get someone in the picture as a reference to how big it was......with the Denford I'd get it converted to run the mach 3 software the Sieg runs windows which is a plus

Woter
22-03-2013, 04:24 PM
Hi there,

Another new-bee on the scene. Hope you don't mind me chipping in on this post, but I have read it with great interest as I am in a similar possition to the OP.

I am looking for a Desktop 4-axis CNC mill for model making. Something that can handle mild steel and aluminium. The bigger the travel the better. Ideally no less that 300mm / 200mm / 90, no more that 7K all in.

I have found some CNCs made by G-CodeTechnology. The ICP 4030 (http://www.g-codetechnology.co.uk/CNC_machine_systems/Desktop_3D_CNC_machine_systems/icp_stepper_series_cnc_machine.html)or ICV 3040 (http://www.g-codetechnology.co.uk/CNC_machine_systems/Desktop_3D_CNC_machine_systems/icv_servo_cnc_machine.html)seems to float my boat and was wondering if anyone has an opinion on either of these machines.


The OP is after a ATC option. May I ask what this is?

Many thanks

W.

Swarfing
22-03-2013, 08:06 PM
ATC is an Auto tool changer. Isel machines are ok but a bit flimsy for the money they charge is my view. 7K would buy you a secondhand machining centre if you look around. You could even pay somebody to convert a decent mill twice over as well.

Nthkentman
17-08-2014, 05:53 PM
Hi Wombilly,

I *think* I found you on "LinkedIn" ,,,
I wonder if you are able to help... I am purchasing an EM900 machine this week, and I understand you had dealings in these.
Have I dropped a clanger or is this a good machine to start in MDF shape cutting etc ?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide, and future results of advice could well earn you some Hob Nobs and Doughnuts :-)



axyz is a good option, Do not buy Emach brand new, used ones are good, as I used to build and service them. as for budget, without atc option, a 1250 x 1250 m/c will set you back 14 to 18k brand new, used around 4.5 to 8k. with ATC add another 1 to 2k on used prices.

Keep a look out on www.lotsurf.com (http://www.lotsurf.com) ( or co.uk ) they do have them come in at times.

Nthkentman
04-12-2014, 07:34 PM
I have an eMach router set-up. I'm pleased with it and as a 3 axis machine it does everything I want...