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View Full Version : Never simple is it! Mach, machine halts



Shinobiwan
30-01-2013, 10:48 AM
Hey guys,

I knocked out a simple test code for 3D. Its a funnel shape.

8080

I can get it to run fine with Mach in simulation mode but on the machine it halts at line:

N750 G2 X805.793 Y703.765 I15.766 J2.607 F3000

No error message and the cnc isn't in estop. Its like Mach gets to that part and decides to halt and go no further.

I've tried lowering feeds and switching to from G90.1 to G91.1. That did fix some problems with the initial contour roughing but doesn't do anything for this.

GTJim
30-01-2013, 01:10 PM
I may be wrong, but Is it a trial version, if so it may be restricted on the number of lines of code it will allow you to use.

Jonathan
30-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Mach3 without the licence will allow up to 500 lines of code, but the line you've quoted is line 152 in your file, so it doesn't look like that's the problem. Just to be sure though, in mach3 goto 'help' then 'about' and see what it says under 'Licenced to'. I don't think there's anything wrong with that particular line, since for instance it's identical to line 15 (N65).

It wont help with the current problem, but either way try putting G64 at the beginning of the code. This will make the machine run in 'constant velocity' mode, instead of 'exact stop' (G61) which causes it to move exactly through each co-ordinate which often makes the motion not very smooth.

Shinobiwan
30-01-2013, 08:08 PM
Grrr...

Ok so I messed around with the post processor I use in the CAM and got it to run further but still having issues.

Its easier to make a video than explain so...


http://youtu.be/p_DBGTcsiDk (http://youtu.be/p_DBGTcsiDk)

It stops at 498 which is scarily close to the 500 line limit of the demo. I also notice that the toolpath window omits a large part of the code once you refresh the toolpath after homing and setting work zero. Do I have the trial version? Dunno but at this stage its the only thing I can think of because the code appears OK. What I can tell you is I do have a registered version of Mach provided by Strike when I bought the machine. Looking into this more the weird thing is it states its registered to some random guy called Ivan if you check the license info from within Mach. I'd have thought it would have been Strike or my name there? I've got nothing else. All of this was given to me by Strike on a burnt CD containing the license key, mach3 setup along with manuals and video tutorials.

Should I try reinstalling Mach and if so which files do I need to save in order to keep all my settings? Is it just the xml?

Jonathan
30-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Just tried to look at the video but it says private?

It sounds very much like the licence is at fault, which sadly doesn't surprise me as I think someone else I helped with a StrikeCNC machine was given a fake (or no) licence. Illegal licences for Mach3 do exist, however most companies stop them working after software updates, so that's probably what has happened here. If they had bought a licence for you it would have your name on it. Either way you should get a licence, or dare I say it, try LinuxCNC as it's free.

If re-installing you need to keep the .xml file which stores the settings for your machine and the licence file, both of which are stored in "Program Files". If you want to be sure just make a copy of the whole mach3 folder and put it somewhere safe, as it's not that big.

Shinobiwan
30-01-2013, 08:44 PM
Thanks. The video should work now.

Why am I not surprised that Strike probably gave me a dud copy? Still screwing me over lol. Brilliant. Anyway I'll try reinstalling and hope that fixes the problem.

Is there any particular version of mach that's considered more stable than most? I have 3.042.40 on the CD but notice there's a more up recent version available from download from the Mach website.

If it is a dud copy I don't think I'm about to shell 100 when I can get an Eding or PlanetCNC USB controller and software for not a whole lot more and have the advantages of usb along with the limitation lifted on the number of inputs.

Web Goblin
30-01-2013, 08:51 PM
I use eding usbcnc and now that I'm getting used to it its a good bit of software and hardware.
Just for info I have ran your code through NCPlot and it runs fine to the end.

Swarfing
30-01-2013, 10:42 PM
Just send your license off to Mach and ask? if it is genuine they will have a record of it?

Shinobiwan
30-01-2013, 11:01 PM
Just send your license off to Mach and ask? if it is genuine they will have a record of it?

Done just that. I reckon we all know what the answer is going to be.

I really do like Mach. With the 2010 screenset its pretty much as good as it gets for the layout and functionality I want. I've been playing with the demo versions of Eding and PlanetCNC software. Eding isn't quite as nice on the layout but still good and PlanetCNC I don't like. They both lack a good semi auto tool change macro though. That's a really nice feature of the 2010 screenset. Community support for both of these seems thin on the ground compared to Mach too. If I run into problems I know its quick and easy to find an answer with Mach.

Sod it, think I'll just get a copy of Mach and have done with it. I can always add a smooth stepper or similar later on.

gavztheouch
30-01-2013, 11:09 PM
registered to some random guy called Ivan

Ivan is the name you will see if it is indeed a cracked/Illegal copy


Illegal licences for Mach3 do exist, however most companies stop them working after software updates, so that's probably what has happened here.

The crack only works with older version of mach, so if you have an updated version it will act like the demo.

Not surprised to see strike cutting corners again, I don't know how the law works if you bought an illegal copy unawares but the penalties for having hooky software on your pc can be tough.

I have just bought a Kflop controller which gives you the option of using USB with mach, plus almost unlimited user inputs and output. The kflop also comes with free mach style program called Kmotioncnc. The best thing about kflop is you can use it with encoders to close the loop on your steppers.

Shinobiwan
30-01-2013, 11:16 PM
Thanks for confirming.

Jesus. Just when I think I've had all the shit I'm gonna get from Strike a little more comes along.

I'm sticking with Mach because I've spent the last year playing around and learning its drawbacks and advantages. Better the devil you know and all that.

gavztheouch
30-01-2013, 11:36 PM
Try the mach3 forum, they should be able to give you a definite answer if you do not get a responce quickly out of mach themselves.

JAZZCNC
31-01-2013, 12:29 AM
Ant watch that code because it's using M4 which is running spindle in reverse and while you don't use Mach to control your spindle know you may later on.
You may have just clicked the wrong setting in CAM or your post could be screwed up but either way sort it now else it will bite you later.!

With the G90.1/91.1 then just change the I/J setting in general config and leave the code alone, it's easier has some code will work in Absolute rather than incremental mode for G2/3 moves. It's easier and less prone to error using I/J in General config than chopping and changing code and forgetting.

Shinobiwan
31-01-2013, 01:27 AM
I use mach to control the spindle now mate so thanks for that. It'll only work with M3 though because I've not wired the VFD for CCW and none of the cutter I have are CCW anyway. I'll have to take a look at the post I'm using and my toolpaths. I probably forgot to set Conventional milling or have the contour profile set in the wrong direction.

Are you saying leave G90.1/G91.1 out the code and set for it within Mach for most reliable results?

Shinobiwan
31-01-2013, 01:31 AM
Works a treat now:


http://youtu.be/yV8EHUXCMaU

JAZZCNC
31-01-2013, 02:07 AM
Are you saying leave G90.1/G91.1 out the code and set for it within Mach for most reliable results?

No saying if it was G90.1 leave it and change the I/J mode in general Config to Absolute. Then vise versa if your code uses g91.1 and it' doesn't do what you expect then just change I/J Mode to Incremental.

Also doesn't matter whether using Conventional or climb milling you still want spindle spinning clockwise and M4 spins it Anti clockwise if connected.
Like I say I'd sort it now because one day it could bite if you ever decide to connect spindle for both directions.?

Shinobiwan
31-01-2013, 02:49 AM
No saying if it was G90.1 leave it and change the I/J mode in general Config to Absolute. Then vise versa if your code uses g91.1 and it' doesn't do what you expect then just change I/J Mode to Incremental.

Also doesn't matter whether using Conventional or climb milling you still want spindle spinning clockwise and M4 spins it Anti clockwise if connected.
Like I say I'd sort it now because one day it could bite if you ever decide to connect spindle for both directions.?

Ahh I see your point. Its a problem with the post I'm using but I've edited to switch around the M3 and M4 commands and it now works as expected producing M3 instead of M4. Why would you use M4 anyway? I take it there are mills out there that are CCW or is this some special case?

Also how do I set my dwell time? The spindle take a few seconds to get up to speed and Mach is wanting to get going before its ready. Could be problem if its trying to cut whilst still spinning up.

JAZZCNC
31-01-2013, 05:09 AM
Also how do I set my dwell time? The spindle take a few seconds to get up to speed and Mach is wanting to get going before its ready. Could be problem if its trying to cut whilst still spinning up.

Ports&pins/spindle setup then General parameters CW delay. . . . OR possibly need to set the ramp up time on the VFD.?

You would want spindle reverse if you was doing rigid tapping and things like that.!

Shinobiwan
31-01-2013, 05:46 AM
Ports&pins/spindle setup then General parameters CW delay. . . . OR possibly need to set the ramp up time on the VFD.?

You would want spindle reverse if you was doing rigid tapping and things like that.!

Cheers mate.

Remember its one of those shitty Chinese VFD's so it'd probably blow a capacitor or something if you tried to up the ramp time lol Safer to do it in software.

I have added a line in my post to include an G04 P4 right after the G3 but your way looks better.

John S
31-01-2013, 09:17 AM
Cheers mate.


I have added a line in my post to include an G04 P4 right after the G3 .

Been doing this for ages, big CNC has a 7 HP motor on it and it takes a couple of seconds for it to spool up.

D.C.
31-01-2013, 10:00 AM
Ivan is the name you will see if it is indeed a cracked/Illegal copy

Not surprised to see strike cutting corners again, I don't know how the law works if you bought an illegal copy unawares but the penalties for having hooky software on your pc can be tough.


I do know how the law works and it is pretty brutal when it comes to people flogging stolen software as a business. Shinobiwan you may want to keep screenshots and copies of any communications with mach and screenshots of strike's website saying the machine comes with mach if you are going to be having a day in court...

Shinobiwan
31-01-2013, 01:46 PM
Strike is long gone and the guy running it has been involved with the Police for stealing peoples money. I'm pretty sure adding software piracy to the list isn't going to add whole lot more effect!

martin54
31-01-2013, 01:54 PM
Strike is long gone and the guy running it has been involved with the Police for stealing peoples money. I'm pretty sure adding software piracy to the list isn't going to add whole lot more effect!

I would still mention it to the guys at Mach, you have lost a lot of money already at other peoples hands. If the people at Mach knew that you had paid for a licence already they might be sympathetic & let you have the licence you had paid for or failing that let you have one at a reduced rate.

gavztheouch
31-01-2013, 02:00 PM
The machine is looking great.

Jonathan
31-01-2013, 02:07 PM
Cheers mate.

Remember its one of those shitty Chinese VFD's so it'd probably blow a capacitor or something if you tried to up the ramp time lol Safer to do it in software.

I have added a line in my post to include an G04 P4 right after the G3 but your way looks better.

What have you currently got the ramp up/down (PD14,PD15) times set to? I don't remember exactly (will check), but I set mine to no more than a couple of seconds and it's fine. If the acceleration is set too high the DC bus voltage in the VFD will get too high, and the inverter will cut out for protection so it's very unlikely to break anything. Try changing it gradually...
On a machine with gearing etc, like a lathe, it's not sensible to set the ramp up time to something very high, since it would just wearing out the gearbox unnecessarily.

JAZZCNC
31-01-2013, 02:54 PM
I have added a line in my post to include an G04 P4 right after the G3 but your way looks better.

Better letting Mach do it because then if for instance you use G-code that hasn't come from your Cam or Post chances are it won't have G4 dwell command, then your pissing about editing the Code. No big deal to do but could be if you forget and delv the cutter into material before up to speed.!!

m_c
31-01-2013, 06:40 PM
What have you currently got the ramp up/down (PD14,PD15) times set to? I don't remember exactly (will check), but I set mine to no more than a couple of seconds and it's fine. If the acceleration is set too high the DC bus voltage in the VFD will get too high, and the inverter will cut out for protection so it's very unlikely to break anything. Try changing it gradually...
On a machine with gearing etc, like a lathe, it's not sensible to set the ramp up time to something very high, since it would just wearing out the gearbox unnecessarily.

How will accelerating too fast cause the DC bus to go overvoltage?

Also, how is accelerating a geared machine too quickly with a VFD any different from turning the motor on with a switch?

Jonathan
31-01-2013, 07:11 PM
How will accelerating too fast cause the DC bus to go overvoltage?

I was referring to both the ramp up and down settings, so clearly that comment is regarding negative acceleration...


Also, how is accelerating a geared machine too quickly with a VFD any different from turning the motor on with a switch?

If the user is using the original motor, then it's not much different, however it's not uncommon for people to get a bigger motor than the machine was designed for, which could potentially achieve higher acceleration than the original motor. I guess it was hardly worth mentioning in this context. Also, in general it is sensible to warn to be conservative with these settings as they could cause problems later on - for instance on a lathe swapping to a larger chuck or faceplate can greatly increase the inertia (due to power 4 relationship) and as a result cause the drive to cut out.