The 2.2Kw Chinese Spindles - Info, Setup and Advice + More

[Husky]

Thought it might be an idea to centralise some info on the commonly used 2.2Kw Chinese supplied spindle.

This is what I'm looking at:

China supplied
2.2Kw
Includes power supply
Including postage



There are a ton of "different" suppliers on EBay, at this time (01/03/13) they all charge £252 (inc. P&P) for the spindle and power supply.

I'm hoping if people manage to get a cheaper deal they can post up where they got it from and how much for. :thumsup:


Spindle:



Current thinking is to buy only one with "German bearings" However every one I could see stated they have these. Has anyone proven a difference with these bearings?


As far as I can see it's just luck with the bearings. The sellers on ali-express will discuss them however, so it's possible to get better ones but you do pay for it. I got my spindle from the eBay seller 'solar.jean', which was the cheapest at the time with best offer saving about £20. Turns out it has 4 bearings (H7005C TN1-2RZ and 7002CTYN) and the two big ones are a matched pair with the V markings on the outer rings, so it looks like I got lucky. Bear in mind however that was a couple of years ago, and someone on the forum got one from the same seller a week after me and received a presumably different model as his didn't have any writing on the side.



This thread has some good internal pics and info
Water cooled Chinese spindle disassembly - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/129454-water_cooled_chinese_spindle_disassembly.html)

And this one has cross sections
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/tool-tooling-technology/2106-spindle-cross-section-view.html



Quick note:

Its a bit of a crap shoot with the cheapest VFD suppliers. Sometimes you get decent bearings, sometimes less so. Sometimes you only get 2 bearings, sometimes 4 [Jonathan Edit: It's 4 or 3 bearings, never 2]. Main problem is the quality control with the Haunyang VFD. Some last years, others are dead straight out the box or only last a short while. If your unlucky and get a faulty one don't bother trying your luck again by replacing it with another Haunyang, get an Hitachi X200 VFD instead. These are pretty much faultless.

These Chinese spindles might all look the same but there are quality differences so paying more might not be a bad thing. If you want cheap as possible you usually get what you pay for and you'll be taking pot luck. Problem is how to guarantee a decent unit? Well I bought this.

Spindle Motor 3 Phase 2.2KW Water cooled ER20 with Matching VFD (http://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=147)

Its tested and comes with decent bearings and 4 of 'em instead of 2 [Jonathan Edit: It's 4 or 3 bearings, never 2]. You also get a UK warranty should anything go wrong! Downside is its about £100 more than the cheapest Chinese one's but it does remove all the question marks.


Also for the spindle end you need some new Male Push-Fit studs as well (M8 x 1mm Fine thread), I *think* I have lots of these, I can send you some with the correct thread type, I may also have enough hose I can send as well :), later I will be going to the workshop I will make a video for you of how its all working...



Power supply:



I asked one of the sellers about the pictures showing a lower wattage power supply than required, I was assured the matching supply would arrive with the spindle and the pictures are just recycled from other sales.
Are different VFD's supplied? If so, which ones are better?


I've got 3 of the generic 2.2kW Chinese VFDs and they all work fine. I know plenty of other people who have used them without problems.





Here's some useful setup information for Haunyang VFD that I've collected and collated whilst on my internet travels.

NOTE: Always check these settings are applicable to your Haunyang VFD as there have been some design variances over the years.

VFD Manual:
8314

General VFD setup:
Here's the correct settings for the Huanyang VFD that always seems to come with these kits.[/FONT]

PD013 - 8 MASTER RESET <<< DO THIS FIRST [Jonathan Edit: I prefer not to input this reset command, as often they've set a lot of the settings for you, so it saves time to leave it and you'll spot any settings that are wrong when you set the rest, so there's no risk]
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
PD011 - 120 [Jonathan Edit: No, this is a common misconception. This setting is the lower frequency limit, so setting it to 120Hz means you can't run the spindle below 7200rpm, which originated from the air cooled spindles which would burn out below this speed. This is not a problem with water cooling, so you can set it to zero. You wont get much torque below 7200rpm, but down to about 3200rpm is useable for drilling small holes in aluminum if you don't have carbide drills.]
PD014 - 1 [Jonathan Edit: This is time to accelerate to rated speed. It may be better not to set it as low as 1 second (e.g. 2) to reduce the starting current, or if you don't appreciate the lights dimming every time you press run.]
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000, factory setting is 1440 ->3000 gives correct RPM of 24000 at 400hz

Control Settings:
For spindle Start/Stop using Mach controlled relay connect DCM to FOR with the relay wired between the two. NOTE: Wiring DCM to REV will give reverse spindle rotation.

For variable speed control using a 10k ohm pot connect ACM and 10v to the pot with IV on the Wiper.

PD001 - 0 = Start from VFD Panel(Manual control), 1 = Control from inputs(use if Mach is start/stopping your spindle as explained above)
PD044 - 2
PD045 - 3

Spindle end wiring diagram:
(Pins are numerically marked on the inside of the plug, check by taking the 3 hex bolts out the spindle top cap. Whilst your in there take a ground from pin 4 to one of the 3 bolts inside that holds the bearing cap)
8313

VFD end wiring diagram:
Live = R, Neutral = T, Earth = E.
8312



Water Pump:



The pump commonly supplied by the motor sellers to go with the spindle appears to commonly be a 4000l/h, 4m head pump that looks like a converted pond pump. Cost ~£65 (inc. p&p)
Do we know the actual pumping requirements of the motor?


For example:

Energy absorbed (J/s) = Mass (Kg/s) * specific heat capacity of water * change in temperature (K)

Q = m * c * DeltaT

(assuming the entire power of the motor is converted to heat = 2.2W = 2200J/sec)
(assume the difference in temperature achieved is 15deg Kelvin (or Celsius, doesn't matter)

2200 = Mass(Kg/s) * 4200 * 15

Mass(Kg/s) = 2200 / 63000

Mass(Kg/s) = 0.0349206

(convert to litres per hour. NB: 1litre = 1kg)

l/hour = 0.0349206 * 60 * 60

l/hour = 126

This would be the required flow rate for a temperature difference of 15 degrees from room temp to spindle temp assuming the spindle dumped 2.2Kw of power straight into the water. BUT bear in mind there are some big assumptions throughout this, it's going to be affected by the heat exchange from motor to water, radiator efficiency, pumping pressure requirements, the efficiency of the motor, etc.

If anyone else can add to this, theoretically or with practical observations, we can start to see what pumping requirements the motor actually has. A 4000l/h pond pump equivelant could be massive overkill and instead a computer water cooling pump could be used? Far less power consumption, less space taken up, more reliable for the same money as UK version can be bought.



What pumps do other people run? What temperatures do you see with these setups?


These spindle are pretty efficient as they're induction motors, so they don't require much water to cool them effectively. The main thing is to get a pump with enough 'head' so that it can lift the water high enough to get up the pipes. A fraction of a litre per minute is probably plenty for most people, especially since the vast majority of things will never draw anywhere near the rated power of the spindle. Your calculation is fine except the assumption of dissipating 2.2kW is not reasonable. The spindle is probably about 95% efficient at full load, so maybe 110W ---> 6.3l/hour for 15° rise. You shouldn't need to spend more than about £20 on a pump, for example:
SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP 2200 L/H AQUARIUM FISH TANK POND GARDEN 56W NEW UK AP5100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBMERSIBLE-WATER-PUMP-2200-L-H-AQUARIUM-FISH-TANK-POND-GARDEN-56W-NEW-UK-AP5100-/390532181450?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFea tures_UK&hash=item5aed882dca)



For any newbies like me reading this; dont worry too much about cooling. especially to start with. For example mine can run happily for say an hour without getting even remotely luke warm.. obviously if you plan on getting out of the box and doing some hardcore pocketing in ali then dont take my advice. But for those of you like me who have just built the machine and trying to get it all working. The cooling is just another complication you dont need.

I bought a cheap 12v caravan pump off ebay for £10 brand new. Ive been told not to worry about flow rate just to ensure there is a flow of water. The caravan pump can pump 10ft high in 1/4" hose without breaking a sweat.


Normally the generic pump they send has a 1/2" BSPT thread for the out let with a barb type connection for those 8x5 hose, however you can swap it like mine for one of these:

Male Stud: Male Stud Pneumatic Push-In Fitting For Air Sizes 4, 6, 8, 10, 12mm BPST, Metric (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142741665236)
- For 6x4 hose you need to order the 6mm push-in x 1/2" BSPT thread version.



Radiator:



Where do people source their radiators from?
What size / specification?
Are radiators needed?
Do people use fans or just use them passively?


I don't have one, just a reasonable size reservoir is enough... so passive cooling.



Cable:


CY 4-core cable, 0.75mm^2 or greater. Connect earth wire to spindle body and VFD. Also connect shielding just at VFD end.


Cooling Tubing:


Just need cheap PVC tubing, 8mm if I recall correctly. Plenty of it on eBay.


I can look at mine later and show you with pics, but its usually 8x5mm hoses 5m, however 5m isn't really enough you need at least 10m I would say, also 8x5mm is bigger than you need, the stuff they send is quite stiff so isn't very flexible, I swapped mine for something like 6x4 clear tube (clear so you can see the flow) I think it was.



Coolant


Any type of tank really with 15ltr or over capacity is fine, but keep it black (non transparent) so no day light can get in, then you use some Deionised Water and Antifreeze to make the coolant:

DEIONISED WATER: Deionised Water 10 LITRE (2x 5L) | (De Mineralised/De Ionised/Not Distilled) L (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132268718544)
ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT: BLUE ANTIFREEZE & COOLANT | 10 LITRE | -37 ºC | High Concentrate/Longlife | 10L (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131617528482)




Collets:


Get a set off eBay in china. They're plenty good enough for these spindles as although the runout with these collets is slightly greater then high quality ones, the spindle runout is greater than the difference so it makes virtually no difference. Make sure the spindle you get is ER20, not anything smaller, otherwise you can't use 1/2" cutters which are common for wood router bits.


Links:


General Advice:


[Jonathan:
- It's best to use distilled water for the coolant so you don't cover the inside of the spindle in calcium carbonate. Also put something in it to prevent algae growing, like anti-freeze, or just keep it in a dark box.
- Always clean the collet, collet nut, and spindle tapered bore thoroughly before putting the tool in, otherwise pieces of swarf can be squashed between them which will make the runout worse over time.
- If the water cooling gets blocked then compressed air can clear it and you can dissolve the deposits by pumping water with NaHCO3 (bicarbonate of soda) dissolved in it through the spindle.
- Don't bother with the air cooled spindles since they limit you to only using fairly high speeds due to the lack of cooling.]

Hopefully some questions can be answered and maybe shed some light on this voodoo


Husky :)

[Lee Roberts]

Set this thread to a sticky for you Husky.

.Me

[D.C.]

This thread has some good internal pics and info
Water cooled Chinese spindle disassembly - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/129454-water_cooled_chinese_spindle_disassembly.html)

And this one has cross sections
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/tool-tooling-technology/2106-spindle-cross-section-view.html

You might want to add a section to cover recommended cabling, tubing and collets.

[Jonathan]

This one (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/UPDATE-2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-ER20-JAPANESE-BEARING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-2-2KW-MATCHING-INVERTER/318407523.html) is cheaper.
As far as I can see it's just luck with the bearings. The sellers on ali-express will discuss them however, so it's possible to get better ones but you do pay for it. I got my spindle from the eBay seller 'solar.jean', which was the cheapest at the time with best offer saving about £20. Turns out it has 4 bearings (H7005C TN1-2RZ and 7002CTYN) and the two big ones are a matched pair with the V markings on the outer rings, so it looks like I got lucky. Bear in mind however that was a couple of years ago, and someone on the forum got one from the same seller a week after me and received a presumably different model as his didn't have any writing on the side.

Power supply: I've got 3 of the generic 2.2kW chionese VFDs and they all work fine. I know plenty of other people who have used them without problems.

Water pump: These spindle are pretty efficient as they're induction motors, so they don't require much water to cool them effectively. The main thing is to get a pump with enough 'head' so that it can lift the water high enough to get up the pipes. A fraction of a litre per minute is probably plenty for most people, especially since the vast majority of things will never draw anywhere near the rated power of the spindle. Your calculation is fine except the assumption of dissipating 2.2kW is not reasonable. The spindle is probably about 95% efficient at full load, so maybe 110W ---> 6.3l/hour for 15° rise. You shouldn't need to spend more than about £20 on a pump, for example:
SUBMERSIBLE WATER PUMP 2200 L/H AQUARIUM FISH TANK POND GARDEN 56W NEW UK AP5100 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBMERSIBLE-WATER-PUMP-2200-L-H-AQUARIUM-FISH-TANK-POND-GARDEN-56W-NEW-UK-AP5100-/390532181450?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFea tures_UK&hash=item5aed882dca)

Radiator: I don't have one, just a reasonable size reservoir is enough... so passive cooling.

Cable: CY 4-core cable, 0.75mm^2 or greater. Connect earth wire to spindle body and VFD. Also connect shielding just at VFD end.

Tubing: Just need cheap PVC tubing, 8mm if I recall correctly. Plenty of it on eBay.

Collets: Get a set off eBay in china. They're plenty good enough for these spindles as although the runout with these collets is slightly greater then high quality ones, the spindle runout is greater than the difference so it makes virtually no difference. Make sure the spindle you get is ER20, not anything smaller, otherwise you can't use 1/2" cutters which are common for wood router bits.

[Husky]

Updated the OP :)

[Shinobiwan]

Here's some useful setup information for Haunyang VFD that I've collected and collated whilst on my internet travels.

NOTE: Always check these settings are applicable to your Haunyang VFD as there have been some design variances over the years.

VFD Manual:
8314

General VFD setup:
Here's the correct settings for the Huanyang VFD that always seems to come with these kits.

PD013 - 8 MASTER RESET <<< DO THIS FIRST
PD005 - 400
PD004 - 400
PD003 - 400
PD006 - 2.5
PD007 - 1.20
PD008 - 220
PD009 - 15
PD011 - 120
PD014 - 1
PD015 - 1
PD072 - 400.00
PD143 - 2
PD142 - 7
PD144 - 3000, factory setting is 1440 ->3000 gives correct RPM of 24000 at 400hz

Control Settings:
For spindle Start/Stop using Mach controlled relay connect DCM to FOR with the relay wired between the two. NOTE: Wiring DCM to REV will give reverse spindle rotation.

For variable speed control using a 10k ohm pot connect ACM and 10v to the pot with IV on the Wiper.

PD001 - 0 = Start from VFD Panel(Manual control), 1 = Control from inputs(use if Mach is start/stopping your spindle as explained above)
PD044 - 2
PD045 - 3

Spindle end wiring diagram:
(Pins are numerically marked on the inside of the plug, check by taking the 3 hex bolts out the spindle top cap. Whilst your in there take a ground from pin 4 to one of the 3 bolts inside that holds the bearing cap)
8313

VFD end wiring diagram:
Live = R, Neutral = T, Earth = E.
8312

[Shinobiwan]

Quick note:

Its a bit of a crap shoot with the cheapest VFD suppliers. Sometimes you get decent bearings, sometimes less so. Sometimes you only get 2 bearings, sometimes 4. Main problem is the quality control with the Haunyang VFD. Some last years, others are dead straight out the box or only last a short while. If your unlucky and get a faulty one don't bother trying your luck again by replacing it with another Haunyang, get an Hitachi X200 VFD instead. These are pretty much faultless.

These chinese spindles might all look the same but there are quality differences so paying more might not be a bad thing. If you want cheap as possible you usually get what you pay for and you'll be taking pot luck. Problem is how to guarantee a decent unit? Well I bought this.

Spindle Motor 3 Phase 2.2KW Water cooled ER20 with Matching VFD (http://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=147)

Its tested and comes with decent bearings and 4 of 'em instead of 2. You also get a UK warranty should anything go wrong! Downside is its about £100 more than the cheapest chinese one's but it does remove all the question marks.

[kingcreaky]

For any newbies like me reading this; dont worry too much about cooling. especially to start with. For example mine can run happily for say an hour without getting even remotely luke warm.. obviously if you plan on getting out of the box and doing some hardcore pocketing in ali then dont take my advice. But for those of you like me who have just built the machine and trying to get it all working. The cooling is just another complication you dont need.

I bought a cheap 12v caravan pump off ebay for £10 brand new. Ive been told not to worry about flow rate just to ensure there is a flow of water. The caravan pump can pump 10ft high in 1/4" hose without breaking a sweat.

[Husky]

Added all the info into the OP. Thanks!!

[Jonathan]

I've added a few bits to the OP, including some suggested amendments to the VFD settings. I will be posting more on that subject soon as there may be a way of getting more torque from the spindle at low speed.

[paulus.v]

I searched for these spindles and now I'm so confused...

solar.jean (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=261057066728&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&gbr=1&_from=R40&_clu=2&hash=item3cc836b6e8&_sofindtype=0&_nkw=2.2kw&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&&_fss=1&_fsradio=%26LH_SpecificSeller%3D1&_saslop=1&_sasl=solar.jean&_sop=15&_dmd=1&_ipg=200) states on a few of his listings "FOUR BEARING"; first written only on the listing image for a spindle alone with "Japanese Imported Bearing" and second only in the listing title for the £252 spindle+VFD with "Germany Imported Bearing"

As I buy the ballscrews from linearmotionbearings2008 I saw that he also sells spindles (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/a-water-cooled-spindle-motor-2-2kw-with-a-VFD-as-a-set-/250532286917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a54e351c5) which are far more expensive (£353). As I asked him if he can justify the higher price, he only made a "best special price" which is still £36 higher. The only important difference in the description is that he claim to professionally test them before shipping.

Now my dilemma comes from the fact that he already sold 54 of them at this very high price. And 54 are a lot!

I even read somewhere on the forums that the German bearings are actually made by a Chinese company named "German" :devilish: and the Japanese ones are top brands but that specific model number is supplied only to China.

[Shinobiwan]

I'd buy from Chi. He's consistent and a decent chap. If things go wrong he usually fixes it. Solar Jean has been known to disappear off the face of the earth if you email with questions and especially if you want to claim on the warranty.

[paulus.v]

Both have only few negative and neutral feedback, and solar.jean mostly for $1 "Nail Art 3D Sticker" lol

Yes, I know Chai is way more consistent and professional. I read a lot of good things about him. Could this be the only reason for selling a lot of spindles at 40% higher price?

[Jonathan]

Could this be the only reason for selling a lot of spindles at 40% higher price?

The other reason is someone called JazzCNC keeps advising people to buy them from him. My opinion is just get the cheapest one since the differences between them, if you can even tell a difference, are bound to be negligible and I know plenty of people who've bought from other sellers and haven't reported problems. Mine, which was the cheapest I could find at the time, was from solar.jean and it turns out it has Chinese bearings, but they are marked as a match pair so that's pretty good. It also has 4 bearings not 3. He probably sells all sorts though, so don't expect that to mean you'll get one the same.

[paulus.v]

This Chinese spindle thing is an expensive lottery (for me at least). If you get a spindle manufactured on Friday or during a football game you may have the AC bearings put in the same direction not face to face or even fewer as designed...

[Shinobiwan]

Think you'll find Solar Jean sells crap spindles as well as good one's. Its pot luck. Loads of complaints about that seller on CNCZone never heard anyone complaining about the one's chai sells. I think Jazz does right recommending Chai to folks since they've got enough headaches with the logistics of DIY CNC.

Didn't Solar Jean steal money off you Jonathan when you bought those drives and never got them?

[Shinobiwan]

This Chinese spindle thing is an expensive lottery (for me at least). If you get a spindle manufactured on Friday or during a football game you may have the AC bearings put in the same direction not face to face or even fewer as designed...

For £36 when your spending £250+ its nothing to have something tested and I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

[Jonathan]

Didn't Solar Jean steal money off you Jonathan when you bought those drives and never got them?

No, different seller.


I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

How do you know? If it's just based on his word, then of course he's going to say that.

[paulus.v]

For £36 when your spending £250+ its nothing to have something tested and I know Chai does his best to get his from the better sources in China.

When I asked Chai to justify the higher price he didn't gave me any argument, only a better price. Could it be just a lack of selling technique?

[Shinobiwan]

How do you know? If it's just based on his word, then of course he's going to say that.

When you say you make decent parts I'm taking you on your word. Of course you think you do but can you prove it? Well yes you can, I only need go ask people you've done jobs for or sold services to.

Same principle with Chai. Plenty of happy customers and very hard to find complaints.

At the end of the day its your money, spend it how you will. I've been bitten from not researching exhaustively and being too trusting. Now I'd sooner spend that bit more and go with someone who has a good rep. Take it or leave it I ain't justifying it any more than that!

[John S]

Can't comment on the 2.2Kw water cooled spindles as although i have a few I have never looked into them.

However when Ketan at ARC was looking at the air cooled range he carries he bought about 6 which we ran and also stripped to see what the differences were.

Basically 4 of the vendors were lying thru their teeth about what was actually inside them, all the lies were about what bearings were fitted.

The two remaining vendors did have genuine high grade German bearings fitted and there was virtually no difference in their products.

I see no reason why the water cooled spindles do not follow this same pattern. Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.

[MikeyC38]

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
Mike

[Ricardoco]

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
MikeIve been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal, Just like john said, chai Is great and ive bought plenty of other stuff from him in the past but i may take a gamble on this

NEW UPDATE 3KW AIR COOLED/ER20 GERMANY BEARING SPINDLE MOTOR AND MATCHING INVERTER-in Machine Tool Spindle from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-UPDATE-3KW-AIR-COOLED-ER20-GERMANY-BEARING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-MATCHING-INVERTER/650116118.html)

Rick

[Jonathan]

It's clear that we have good evidence to expect to receive a good spindle from Chai, but to me that's not reason enough to spend at least 36 extra on one. The only part I've heard of having problems is the spindle bearings, in particular using relatively cheap Chinese bearings and installing them incorrectly.

Lower quality bearings:

We don't know if Chai uses 'good' bearings or not.
They're likely to not last as long as high grade bearings, but apart from that I doubt you will notice a difference. They may run at a very slightly higher temperature, or have marginally lower run-out, but for the vast majority of people that is a negligible error. If you really need very low runout, then spend the extra 150-200 ish and get a better quality spindle from Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com) as that will be far better than the former, even if you get lucky.


Incorrect bearing installation:

This is clearly bad, but if you notice it before it's too late then it's not difficult to change the bearings round. These spindles are surprisingly easy to dismantle.
I can only find evidence of a spindle with 3 bearings being assembled incorrectly. Therefore if you get a 4 bearing spindle, which is a good idea anyway, then we can expect it to be assembled correctly. The 4 bearing spindles use 4 angular contact bearings, with the front pair both one way and the top pair the opposite way, placing the shaft in tension.


So overall, yes spending the extra money does give you peace of mind, but if you compare that to the probability of getting a bad one from other sellers it's surely worth 'risking' it. Also you can get the spindles a little cheaper than the standard eBay price if you use aliexpress and perhaps more importantly their payment system is such that the seller only gets your money when the item has arrived and you say it's good. That's pretty good leverage when trying to get a bad product replaced.


BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!!

Remember to search worldwide - if you tick UK only the prices are silly.


Ive been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal

Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.

[Ricardoco]

Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.Hi Jonathan, well I think there have been changes since the first square ones came out.

I spent the day with a friend and he was cutting most of the day with his square one, it is noisey ill give you that, but not as noisey as i thought it was going to be, as for not being able to cut at lower speeds, his one was an 18000rpm model and he ran that all day at 8500rpm and yes it got hot but nothing to speak of.

As i said, like the round ones, things have come a long way since they came out.

He killed two square ones and a round one in 2011 and he has had this square one since may 2012 so something has changed and its not his supplier, admittedly he dosnt run it 8hrs at a time but 4-5hrs a day is not unusual, I understand that none of these spindles (square or round)runs well at low speeds because the lack of torque at lower speeds is prohibitive, so ive had to make a decision based on what ive seen, if there are round spindles out there in that price bracket (including mount,pump, tank, piping, and inverter of course) that can be seen working then point me to it ill have a look. My friends one has a warranty seal on it, must be the supplier used.
As you say it is a gamble, because its so far away, you could get anything. Ive actually asked for a price with ceramic bearings, on both the square and the round.

Rick

[Lee Roberts]

Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.

I think i'll do the same, if i get a lemon it wont be great.

I would have thought we would all be looking for ceramic bearings anyway in these, just wondering if we should start advising to go for the cheap ones and then upgrade to ac ceramic bearings anyway? or do ceramic bearings cost to much for that?

EDIT: Best price i can see for a 7005 ceramic angular contact is around the £100 mark lol.

.Me

[John S]

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

[Ricardoco]

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

How could anyone argue with something put so elequently... Cheers John:glee:

Rick

[Lee Roberts]

Ceramic is a buzz word.
Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?

lol indeed, point taken !

.Me

[r0bsk1]

BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over £600!! When I looked in February they were around £250-£280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

Thanks
Mike

Dunno why the price has more than doubled on ebay but that now makes the 3kw spindle setup cheaper at £400

[D.C.]

Dunno why the price has more than doubled on ebay but that now makes the 3kw spindle setup cheaper at £400

Don't forget you also have to pay the electric bill, needlessly burning an extra 800watts adds up...

I'm not sure exactly where the sweet spot is with cnc machines, perhaps someone that has a few years experience has being moitoring their leccy bill but in school/college IT centres when you do the figures the electric bill works out as being more expensive over the lifetime of the machine than the capital cost of the computers.

[r0bsk1]

They've tripled the price beacuse........

"We are sorry that because this item is now out of stock in UK, so we rise the price."

Will the lower price return when you have stocks in the UK?

"Yes, once this item can be available in UK, we will lower the price as before."

[paulus.v]

I asked solar.jean if all his 2.2kw spindles are the same model/making and he confirmed "yes,that's right,all is same mode and same factory" and he added "we sell the products as total amount of USD374 (price+freight)".

No matter if you bid for the Japanese bearings or the German ones you will get the same product from him.
Possible to be the same seller from Aliexpress (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/UPDATE-2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-ER20-JAPANESE-BEARING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-2-2KW-MATCHING-INVERTER/318407523.html) with the lowest price (note the Japanese and German bearings mentioned in the same listing).

Chai sells spindles manufactured by Jiesite (http://www.czjst.com/en_index.asp) and Jean the ones made by Huajiang (http://www.huajiang.cn/english/about.asp). Both located in the Changzhou city. In my opinion both companies produces the "cheapest" Chinese spindles Jiesite is the only spindle manufacturer/trader on Alibaba (http://spindlemotor.en.alibaba.com/product/624472338-214220822/2_2KW_High_Speed_CNC_Spindle_Special_Motor.html) who does not provide information about the bearings used. Huajiang has a made-in-china (http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/huajiang2011/product-detailHoyxYhOuEBkz/China-Water-Cooled-2-2kw-Spindle-Motor-ER20-Spindle-Motor.html) account where the P4 bearing grade is listed only for the 3 and 4.5kw models.

Jiesite seems to be a smaller and younger company with better quality control compared to Huajiang. They also have some interesting tips for spindle use. Here follows the most interesting one:


During storage and transport of the spindle, the status of high-speed grease inside the bearing will change. The user shall run it at a low speed first by starting from the lowest speed of the spindle for 30 minutes and then 20 minutes for every 3000 rounds; otherwise there will have abnormal sound, noise, heat and other phenomena, which will affect the bearing life if the spindle is started directly at a high speed. During long term storage, the spindle shall run (at low speed) for 15~30 minutes once a week at least.

None of the Chinese manufacturers claim to use import bearings.

[m_c]

Don't forget you also have to pay the electric bill, needlessly burning an extra 800watts adds up...


Just because your car has a 100hp engine, doesn't mean it's going to use 100hp worth of fuel all the time....

[MikeyC38]

They've tripled the price beacuse........

"We are sorry that because this item is now out of stock in UK, so we rise the price."

Will the lower price return when you have stocks in the UK?

"Yes, once this item can be available in UK, we will lower the price as before."

Thanks r0bsk1 for getting the answer to this. I'll just have to wait and till the supply situation improves.

Kind Regards
Mike

[r0bsk1]

I was just about to buy one too so ive also asked for an ETA on UK stock

[Philly]

Is it possible to have Mach control the speed of the spindle, I've not used the new spindle yet so I'm not sure if its possible :)

Thanks

[Ricardoco]

Is it possible to have Mach control the speed of the spindle, I've not used the new spindle yet so I'm not sure if its possible :)

Thanks

Yes you can and should and its not hard to achieve either, there are several threads on the forum that give better instructions than i could, but i never looked back once i had spindle speed control.

Rick

[Philly]

Cheers, will go look now. I cant imagine not sitting around the machine waiting to change speed or turn the spindle on/off. Should be fun! :)

[r0bsk1]

Try this http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/routers-spindles-controllers/5925-huanyang-vfd-control-plugin-mach3-usb-rs-485-a.html

[Philly]

That looks perfect. Am I correct in assuming when I create a toolpath in Aspire with a set spindle speed(e.g 10k) when its opened in Mach it will set it to 10k for me?

I feel daft asking these questions.

Thanks, Phil

[Ricardoco]

That looks perfect. Am I correct in assuming when I create a toolpath in Aspire with a set spindle speed(e.g 10k) when its opened in Mach it will set it to 10k for me?

I feel daft asking these questions.

Thanks, Phil

Assuming you have all the speed control hardware that is exactly what you get, its another control you can forget, it takes a little setting up but once done you forget it..

Rick

[Philly]

Thanks guys, will wire it up tonight and see how it goes :)

[John S]

Main thing is you require a breakout board that can handle 0 -10v analogue output for the speed part.
Many BoB's have spindle relays, not many have the 0- 10v part.

[Ricardoco]

Main thing is you require a breakout board that can handle 0 -10v analogue output for the speed part.
Many BoB's have spindle relays, not many have the 0- 10v part. I think he is being pointed toward the usb > serial (RS485 i think) lead from PC to VFD that does the control with a plugin for mach, not tried them so couldnt comment.


Rick

[Philly]

I think he is being pointed toward the usb > serial (RS485 i think) lead from PC to VFD that does the control with a plugin for mach, not tried them so couldnt comment.


Rick

I was indeed, my BoB with PWM is in need of repair so I bought a cheap ebay job that is actually pretty good only no PWM. So I will use the RS485 converter(I actually had one for some reason, past project I guess) and see how I get on. Next is finding some springs to counter balance my Z axis :)

[Philly]

Can the UVW go in any order as long as it spins correctly or do they need to go to the correct pins? I have the earth from the spindle going to E is that OK? Do I need to use all 3 wires from the mains or just the live/neutral? I'm close to testing it out now :)

[Jonathan]

Live and neutral go to any of RST and both earths goes to earth. UVW in any order is fine, so long as the spindle runs in the right direction.

[wilfy]

for those saying the cost is massive at the minute, i'm still finding 2.2kw spindles with vfd's for £252
80 diameter 2.2kw WATER-COOLED SPINDLE MOTOR AND INVERTER VFD DRIVE four bearing | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-diameter-2-2kw-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-INVERTER-VFD-DRIVE-four-bearing-/261050649575?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item3cc7d4cbe7)

yes there are some more expensive, but theres plenty in the £252 range as well, admittedly they are all from solar.jean

[Philly]

I've connected the shielding to eartch at the VFD, I assume its the correct way?

Also, would these VFD settings work with the 1.5kw spindle, I cant find the bit of paper that came with it :)

Thanks, Phil

[Philly]

Managed to sort it, fired it up and its sweet. One thing thats bothering me is at 24k theres almost like a rattle inside that sounds like a bad bearing but drop a few thousand rpm and it vanishes.

Good points are when it was running there was 0 vibrations on the kitchen counter and it sounds good although its going to be a while before I get used to the different sounds at different ranges, I'm used to it just getting loader :D

Cheers, Phil

[Swarfing]

Phil

Like a new car it is worth running the bearings in before loading it up at full chat.

[Philly]

In progress now, its running at 10k and has been for 15mins so far, will give it another 15mins.

Cheers

[r0bsk1]

FYI 2.2k spindles and vfd are back in stock in the uk. Price has dropped too.

[MikeyC38]

Thanks r0bsk1 for posting this I will check eBay now.
Regds
Mike

[asbo]

Damn my hastiness, I bought the cheapest one from aliexpress a few days ago and it was £8 (plus £1 bank charge) more than they're now selling them in the UK on ebay. Plus the seller has dispatched it with FedEx even though I chose DHL as the courier, so now I'll get a nice admin charge from them. Oh well :boxing:

I'll post again when it arrives :courage:

[Danielroyal25]

Hi guys. What do I go for a four bearing one from uk or 3 bearing one from chai?? I can't decide

[Danielroyal25]

Still looking at spindles on eBay and unsure. Had a good price off chai but with shipping takes it up a fair bit.
There's one via solar.jean which I am tempted by, is a four bearing model but only has a 3 pin connector. Is this an issue? Can an earth still be fitted - does it need one?

[Jonathan]

There's one via solar.jean which I am tempted by, is a four bearing model but only has a 3 pin connector. Is this an issue? Can an earth still be fitted - does it need one?

You could easily change it for a 4 pin connector, or just fasten the earth cable to the spindle body via the spindle mount or tapped hole in the Z-axis, assuming they're all metal.

The 3-pin connector may imply it's an older spindle, since in the past these spindles used to exclusively use 3-pin connectors. Clearly that's just speculation though...as I've already mentioned, my spindle with 3-pin connector from solar.jean has been good and does include 4 bearings.

[kingcreaky]

just buy it!. it'll be fine.

[asbo]

I'll post some pics of the one I got from the aliexpress link if anyone is interested?

[Danielroyal25]

Yes please & thanks Jonathan

[asbo]

OK, here we go.
3 pin plug
Other than that I have no idea about the rest of it, not fired it up yet as I've been feeling too ill.
884788488849

[MikeyC38]

I was just about to buy one too so ive also asked for an ETA on UK stock

Hi All,

Finally got my spindle and vfd from here []WATER COOLE MOTOR SPINDLE 2.2KW VFD MATCHING INVERTER ENGRAVING GRINDING l7 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-COOLE-MOTOR-SPINDLE-2-2KW-VFD-MATCHING-INVERTER-ENGRAVING-GRINDING-l7-/190752376454?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Contr ol_ET&hash=item2c69ba4686) ("Happykissoul") for £221 including carriage. Price has gone up since I ordered on the 6th May. Turned up this afternoon (Saturday 11th May). Well wrapped, so hopefully courier proof - (Did anyone see the documentary on BBC!). Don't know how many bearings it has but it is much heavier than I thought it would be. Hope the gantry is up to it! VFD is the usual Huanyang one and hope the modbus works in it. Also supplied with 4 collets 4mm,6mm,8mm,12mm, 1/2" and spindle connector plug. Will try it out this week before giving feed back on ebay and will post some pictures here.

Thanks guys for this thread and all the help with the CNC Mill design. Building starts soon

Regards
Mike

[davethefixer]

Slightly off topic but does anyone know where to get replacement water nipples for these spindles?
iv been to my local pneumatic/hydraulic suppliers and they couldnt help.
any ideas ?

[John S]

Dave, I'll check what's fitted to mine and have a look.
You stand a good chance of being in luck as I have just today throw two buckets of unions into the van to weigh in tomorrow.
Quite a few are new, probably a bucket full but got that much crap I have got to have a clear out.

What size pipe did you want to use as If they are what i think then you get a choice of 4mm pipe, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm and maybe 10mm

[Jonathan]

On my spindle they were a metric fine pitch thread, so not something I expect would normally be use for plumbing. I was once a bit too enthusiastic with the spanner when tightening mine, so I just made a new one on the lathe. Can you check what thread it is in your spindle?

[John S]

Yes just checked and not 1/8" gas which is what i expected, so sorry . can't help.

[davethefixer]

yeah the guy in my local pnuematic supplier couldnt find anything off the shelf. its nearly M8 but not quite.
as Jonathan says its probably "M8 fine" but as i do not have any thread gauges so i carnt be sure.
i dont have a lathe that will do screw threading bit if it comes to it i will have take it apart and drill it out and re tap it 1/8 BSP.

[Swarfing]

Some of these have NPT fittings

[John S]

Mine looks to be M8 or around there.
How many fittings do you want, got a few 2.2Kw spindles here that I'm not using at present and i can rob them to get you out the sheeite

[Jonathan]

Just checked the two I have - they're both M8x1.0.

[Swarfing]

The one i have is M8x1.0 also

[davethefixer]

thanks guys i only need one to replace the one that snapped off.
I would be most greatful to accept one from any of you. ( i'll let you fight it out amounst yourselves :untroubled: )
i assume you can PM me for details ( i can send a self addressed and paid for jiffy bag )

[John S]

Found some.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tom-parker.co.uk%2Ffile%2Fproducts_groups_file-14101.&ei=S1mRUYaUCci2hAe6_4GYDQ&usg=AFQjCNHNCqCIloTSpNQpnz9KJPUApVHJ2w&sig2=vDrBLNNFz1wrYpgdU1jOAQ&bvm=bv.46340616,d.ZG4&cad=rja

[Clive S]

I have just bought a spindle from here happykisssoul:-
WATER COOLE MOTOR SPINDLE 2.2KW VFD MATCHING INVERTER ENGRAVING GRINDING l7 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-COOLE-MOTOR-SPINDLE-2-2KW-VFD-MATCHING-INVERTER-ENGRAVING-GRINDING-l7-/190752376454?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160)
£214.95 inc del. All seem to be ok and well packed ...Clive

[MikeyC38]

I have just bought a spindle from here happykisssoul:-
WATER COOLE MOTOR SPINDLE 2.2KW VFD MATCHING INVERTER ENGRAVING GRINDING l7 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-COOLE-MOTOR-SPINDLE-2-2KW-VFD-MATCHING-INVERTER-ENGRAVING-GRINDING-l7-/190752376454?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160)
£214.95 inc del. All seem to be ok and well packed ...Clive

Hi Clive you got a better deal than I did at £221 but I'm not complaining!. Thanks to everyone on this thread and Lee for making it a sticky. Finally got it all wired up and set the PD functions as advised by Jonathan and hey presto it works!
Very quiet and very smooth. Some tips:

1. Read the manual
2. Fit crimp on spade terminals (2.5mmm blue) to your wiring when connecting to the VFD. It gives a solid secure connection.
3. Use 2.5mm2 mains lead to your VFD.
4. Use good quality shielded cable between the VFD and the spindle. I used SY cable 4 conductors at 1.5mm2 which I got for an amazing price from a local Commercial Cable Supplier. Earth the screen at the VFD end but not the spindle end. You can electrically earth the spindle by connecting up the 4th pin at the spindle end but you will have to take the end-cap off to make sure you run a wire from the pin to one of the bolts that keeps the end cap on the spindle.
5. Use shrink tubing on the wires inside the spindle connector to avoid shorts. These wires are soldered.
6. Read the manual
7. Check all connections for correctness and shorts before powering up.
8. Set the pd function values by pressing the "PGRM" button, then the ^V buttons to get to the pd function you want then "set" to display and change the values by using the >> key. Then Set to save the value and exit. This bit took me the longest to work out!
9. When all set then RUN to test.

If I've made any mistakes in the above please let me know. As I said the hardest part was knowing how to enter and change the pd values!

Regards
Mike

[Clive S]

Thanks for the heads up on the info. Re the earthing I replaced one of the scoket mounting screws with a longer one (3mmx30mm) so it went right through and stuck out inside then I soldered a cable on to pin 4 of the socket and soldered a ring on the other end, I then put this over the screw on the inside and locked it off with a washer and locknut.

I am using 4 core .75 cy cable (55p + vat) from here Cy Cable Per Meter 4 core (http://www.quickbit.co.uk/Cable/CY-Cable/CY-Cable-4-core/CY-Cable-0-75mm-4-core) but not got around to testing it yet. ..Clive

[dstivens]

9309 just thought id share, I had a problem with a cracked fitting for the water cooling on my spindle and found these things fit and work ok. It's called a banjo and can be found on eBay with the correct thread fitting of m8x1 also makes cableing neater as all the pipes and wires run nearer each other.

[kingcreaky]

Could somebody post the spanner sizes required
1.) for the er20 collet nut
2.) for the spindle shaft (used to hold spindle still to unwind collet nut)

obviously these spindles dont come with the spanners, so Im just trying to order some... but im at work and therefore not near my spindle

matt

[Jonathan]

The standard nuts that come with the spindles require a 32mm spanner. Not sure about the other spanner.. it's about 20mm, but it does vary between spindles so don't order that without confirmation.

[kingcreaky]

The one that has just been delivered here (last week) I noticed that out of the box the spindle didnt turn... I tried to force it but couldnt grip the spindle. so made a mount... so I could grip it. then managed to release the spindle using a spanner on its throat / shaft

now im concerned.. because now its all wired up... it seems to make more noise than it should... this is quite hard to explain in words.. ive previously owned three of these spindles, and none of them seemed this noisy.

do I, A return it (got it from one of these UK suppliers operating out of portsmouth on ebay), or B run it and hope it beds itself in?

is there any way of greasing them?

[EddyCurrent]

Matt,
This might explain it, imagine a slide hammer where the sliding weight is the spindle rotor, now imagine the package being dropped on it's end, it's possible the rotor has moved through the bearings and is now catching on the frame. Can you see evidence of shaft having moved ?. During reassembly of motors it's often found that a tap at one or both ends of the rotor shaft with a hide hammer seems to free things up nicely and removes any tight spots.

[Jonathan]

If enough force has been applied to the spindle to push the angular contact bearings out of alignment, then the bearings are seriously damaged. I'd return it as it's clearly faulty. This isn't just a generic motor, it's a spindle which uses 'super precision' bearings, for good reason. Having dismantled one of these spindles, I can't really see how it could seize without it being permanently damaged.

If returning is not possible, you may have to replace the bearings which is not too difficult, just expensive.

[andrewuk]

Hi do these spindles really get shipped from the uk or are their hidden import charges. Thanks

[kingcreaky]

as far as I can tell, the majority of the ones on 'ebay uk' that boast UK shipping, are, UK shippers.

Personally I think although there are 20 different 'seller accounts' selling them, they are all in portsmouth.

Now I am returning them... I have an actual address. which resolves to a generic unbranded unit

11368

to be fair, they deliver next day, well packaged and have always been good at sorting any problems out

maybe a touch more expensive than the UK

I used 'love-happyshopping'

[andrewuk]

Thanks for the info the prices have gone up to £1220.00 OMG

[r0bsk1]

They put the price up when they are out of stock. Give it a few days and it'll come back down.

[andrewuk]

Oh ok so if I buy from say lovehappyshopping am I right in saying no duty or anything to be paid? thought this was a bit of a lie as item was really coming from china.

[andrewuk]

Hi can i ask what's the best ebay make a offer price for a 2.2kw water cooled spindle that's being accepted. Im thinking of getting a different inverter as it seems people don't rate the huanyang vfd. Thanks

[JAZZCNC]

Hi can i ask what's the best ebay make a offer price for a 2.2kw water cooled spindle that's being accepted. Im thinking of getting a different inverter as it seems people don't rate the huanyang vfd. Thanks

Can't answer the price question but the huanyang VFD is fine and about the best of the chinese ones. The earlier versions had some issues but they seem to have sorted those so I wouldn't worry about it.

[andrewuk]

Thanks for the reply, I think i might just buy a spindle package when the prices come down.anyone making spindle mounts on the forum?

[MikeyC38]

Hi Andrewuk
Jazz is right. I have one of these from a supplier on eBay who ships from a warehouse in Portsmouth. It is great. Hold onto your money until the prices come down. It is Chinese New Year so nothing will happen for a few weeks yet. Once they start shipping again from China, the prices should come down. Paid about 230 pounds for mine last year.
Regis
Mike
PS Jazz I have all the bits now so about to start my cnc build!

[Lee Roberts]

PS Jazz I have all the bits now so about to start my cnc build!

Cool, will keep an eye out for the build log !

[andrewuk]

I have just seen a 3kw air cooled spindle and inverter on ebay from Portsmouth for £230.00, any thoughts on this ill be cutting ply board mostly. Thanks

[andrewuk]

Hi has anyone a recommendation for a pump to cool a 2.2kw spindle and a source for a spindle mount or dxf for one. Thanks

[Lee Roberts]

Hi Andrew, you can find the mounts on ebay for around £30+, in the rfq section on this forum there has been one or two offers for getting a custom mount made.

For a pump you can use one designed for fish tanks, though personally I prefer the idea of using a central heating pump.

.Me

[JAZZCNC]

PS Jazz I have all the bits now so about to start my cnc build!

Didn't see this a week ago Mikey. Hope things go well get in touch if needed.

[Clive S]

Hi Andrew, you can find the mounts on ebay for around £30+, in the rfq section on this forum there has been one or two offers for getting a custom mount made.

For a pump you can use one designed for fish tanks, though personally I prefer the idea of using a central heating pump.

.Me

Something like this Ultra Quiet Mini DC 12V 3M 240L H Brushless Motor Submersible Water Pump Hot | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Quiet-Mini-DC-12V-3M-240L-H-Brushless-Motor-Submersible-Water-Pump-Hot-/261351083541) would be fine. I was surprised just how little water was needed to keep the spindle cool. A central heating pump would be massive overkill and in my opinion (for what its worth) would possibly make the pump cavitate because of the small pipes in the system and of course the power wasted with such a pump ..Clive

[Neale]

I use a caravan water pump from eBay which says 15 mins max at 12V. Runs fine on 5V, though, and delivers enough water to keep things cool.

[r0bsk1]

Or something like this 24 V Submersible Transfer Pump Water Oil Diesel Fuel Boat Camping Car Golden New | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-V-Submersible-Transfer-Pump-Water-Oil-Diesel-Fuel-Boat-Camping-Car-Golden-New-/261375246841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cdb2dc1f9) if you have 24v supply. They're supposed to fit in a 25ltr container which can be used for the reservoir.
Also available for 12v

[Clive S]

Or something like this 24 V Submersible Transfer Pump Water Oil Diesel Fuel Boat Camping Car Golden New | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-V-Submersible-Transfer-Pump-Water-Oil-Diesel-Fuel-Boat-Camping-Car-Golden-New-/261375246841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cdb2dc1f9) if you have 24v supply. They're supposed to fit in a 25ltr container which can be used for the reservoir.
Also available for 12v

That's way more power than a central heating pump etc the one I linked to is only 4.5w and rated for 30000 hours continuously. (ish anyway) ..Clive

[r0bsk1]

Ah scrap what i linked to. Another listing says dont run for more that 15mins.......it'll overheat!

[Lee Roberts]

Something like this Ultra Quiet Mini DC 12V 3M 240L H Brushless Motor Submersible Water Pump Hot | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Quiet-Mini-DC-12V-3M-240L-H-Brushless-Motor-Submersible-Water-Pump-Hot-/261351083541) would be fine. I was surprised just how little water was needed to keep the spindle cool. A central heating pump would be massive overkill and in my opinion (for what its worth) would possibly make the pump cavitate because of the small pipes in the system and of course the power wasted with such a pump ..Clive

Your right! I got my pluming wrong, I thought he was asking for flood coolant, do you think that would be overkill as well ?

[Clive S]

Your right! I got my pluming wrong, I thought he was asking for flood coolant, do you think that would be overkill as well ?

Sorry Lee I can't comment on flood cooling but I think it would be overkill also standard CH pumps use a cast prop but you can get them with a bronze one used for hot water secondary circulation but are very expensive. ..Clive

[andrewuk]

Thanks for the pump advice,are the Chinese spindle mounts ok? I messaged someone on the forum about making a mount but not had a reply.

[andrewuk]

Thanks for the pump advice,are the Chinese spindle mounts ok? I messaged someone on the forum about making a mount but not had a reply.

[Clive S]

Thanks for the pump advice,are the Chinese spindle mounts ok? I messaged someone on the forum about making a mount but not had a reply. Why not put a sketch with dimensions up here and see what happens.. ..Clive

[andrewuk]

Hi, I decided on a 2.2kw water cooled spindle in the end it was delivered Friday, I'm just about to test it, question is am I best setting the inverter before connecting the spindle.Thanks

[JAZZCNC]

Hi, I decided on a 2.2kw water cooled spindle in the end it was delivered Friday, I'm just about to test it, question is am I best setting the inverter before connecting the spindle.Thanks

Doesn't matter just don't try starting spindle before setting the parameters.

[paulus.v]

Now the uk shipping spindle prices are lower than the Chinese ones (solar.jean). Is it possible that the quality of the spindles sold by solar.jean is better than the new batch of the Portsmouth ones?

I need to buy the spindle and am confused now.

[andrewuk]

The spindles from Portsmouth are the 3 pin type, I don't know if that means anything.I have to say delivery was fast and it was well packaged,I paid £218.00 from lovehappyshopping.




11622

[Andrew_Standen]

That looks Good Andrew

[andrewuk]

I have been running my spindle on and off all day, got it connected to the garden tap and outlet into the kitchen sink,. problem is I keep getting air bubbles, I used PTFE tape but got loads of air then I noticed a leak at the tap so sorted that but I'm still getting tiny bubbles, hope the spindle isn't porous, it has had water running through it most of the day so I would of thought it would of tripped the RCD if it had a internal leak but it hasn't. any ideas. Thanks

[JAZZCNC]

I have been running my spindle on and off all day, got it connected to the garden tap and outlet into the kitchen sink,. problem is I keep getting air bubbles, I used PTFE tape but got loads of air then I noticed a leak at the tap so sorted that but I'm still getting tiny bubbles, hope the spindle isn't porous, it has had water running through it most of the day so I would of thought it would of tripped the RCD if it had a internal leak but it hasn't. any ideas. Thanks

Don't worry about it will be fine so long as water is going thru it.

[Neale]

I use a cheap 12V water pump as sold for use in caravans. I start it on 12V and always get some bubbles coming out of the spindle - useful to see that the flow has started! Then I switch to 5V for normal running. You don't need very high flow rates, at least not for modest cuts.

[Andrew_Standen]

You won't need much coolant I have a small pump a radiator and 12 metres of pipe work. In all it runs on just over half a litre....even after 2 hours of running the water temp is only 18c. After the install i had small bubbles for 1 hour max since then i have had no bubbles or lost fluid in 7 months. You will be fine. I bet most if not all of your bubbles are coming from the mains tap water. When you do get it all sorted out use pc cooling fluid as tap water in parts of our country can be very hard. You don't want your spindle to scale up. Maybe the water is soft where you are. Cheers Andrew

[valeria caltabiano]

Hi Jonathan, thank you for this information which proves to be very useful to me. Can you please provide me with an example of the cable as I have tried googling it up and having no result? any help will be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks

[Clive S]

Hi Jonathan, thank you for this information which proves to be very useful to me. Can you please provide me with an example of the cable as I have tried googling it up and having no result? any help will be greatly appreciated. Many ThanksThis is the type of cable you need for the spindle http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html 1mm or 1.5mm your choice. ..Clive

[valeria caltabiano]

This is the type of cable you need for the spindle http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html 1mm or 1.5mm your choice. ..Clive

thank you Clive :)

[Gotty101]

The spindles from Portsmouth are the 3 pin type, I don't know if that means anything.I have to say delivery was fast and it was well packaged,I paid £218.00 from lovehappyshopping.




http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11622&stc=1

I received mine a few weeks ago from industry-village and it has a silver end cap where the connector goes and its got 4 pins.

[JAZZCNC]

I received mine a few weeks ago from industry-village and it has a silver end cap where the connector goes and its got 4 pins.

Some have 3 some have 4 but only 3 of the 4 pins are used the 4th pin is unconnected to anything. Some use it for an earth.!

[valeria caltabiano]

Hi Clive, the spindle has got 4 entries whereas the VFD has got 3 entries. Do i need to use the same cable for both connections? Also, should a power supply for the spindle be included in the package that I have bought?
This is the type of cable you need for the spindle http://www.csecables.com/acatalog/CY-Cable-4-Core.html 1mm or 1.5mm your choice. ..Clive

[IanS1]

The VFD is the power supply/controller for the spindle. You need to connect power directly to the VFD terminals and it will control the power to the spindle.

See the first post in this thread for connection details.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Clive, the spindle has got 4 entries whereas the VFD has got 3 entries. Do i need to use the same cable for both connections? Also, should a power supply for the spindle be included in the package that I have bought?

Valeria, It sounds like you have very little experience with electronics so I seriously suggest you get someone with more experience to do this for you.

Your dealing with High voltage and very fiddly connectors and if got wrong it's very easy to damage the VFD and spindle beyond repair.

[IanS1]

Valeria, It sounds like you have very little experience with electronics so I seriously suggest you get someone with more experience to do this for you.

Your dealing with High voltage and very fiddly connectors and if got wrong it's very easy to damage the VFD and spindle beyond repair.

Yes and potentially do yourself some serious damage. If you're not 100% certain get an electrician to wire this up for you. With mains voltage, it's better to be safe than dead.

[Bart]

Hi.
I'm about to buy a Chinese spindle and going trough ebay and this forum I found 3kW water cooled spindle for 150GBP + shipping at couple of the PORTSMOUTH located sellers.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-WATER-COOLED-EASY-DISMANTLE-HIGH-SPEED-GREAT-/171183925652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27db5b6994

It seems quite cheap for that power. Too cheap?

Some of the pictures of 3kW spindles says 380V. Anyone has experience with 3kW spindles?

Has anyone measured runout of this spindles and checked how many bearings they have(if that makes any difference?)

Best regards
Bart

[njhussey]

Just wired my spindle and VFD and followed the diagram in post 1 and it kept tripping.......that was because the pin numbers were different.....

15689

Had to cut and re-wire the VFD end as the spindle end is soldered.......still it works now so all good. Just have a look on your connector if you've got the 4 pin variant that's all :stupid:

[Jonathan]

I recommend checking with a multimeter what the resistance it between each of the pins, as who knows if the companies making these spindles are consistent. You should get a couple of ohms between the motor terminals and zero ohms to the spindle body, or high impedance when they don't bother with the earth.

[eurikain]

Hi everyone.

FYI, I just ordered a complete spindle kit (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Water-Cooled-Spindle-Set-2-2KW-Spindle-Motor-Matching-2-2KW-Inverter-80mm-clamp-water-pump/2041841053.html) from Kevin Ho at ROB BEARING AND MECHANICAL PARTS (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/334759) on AliExpress.

They don't sell it as is, but if you contact him they'll make you a better price than the kit for which I gave the link. Instead of 417 Euros from the original seller (288€ kit + 129€ shipping), I paid 360€ (US $400 round !). I haven't received the kit yet, but I have made quite a few orders with this seller and everything arrives on time and in great condition. Always well packed. He's even offered me some couplers I had forgotten in my last order. It's a factory that produces linear motion stuff but they can order anything you want.

I'll post pictures of the kit when I receive it, but I have no doubts it's worth the price.

Only thing missing is a nice bucket of water, that will prevent you from having to buy a radiator and a fan. With 20-25L bucket you're good to go... you'll be long dead before your spindle raises the water temperature by 10°C !

[gabi68]

Hi,

I have a question about water pump. What is the size of the coupling for the hose (pvc 6mm one)? Where I can find this?

Thank you
Gabi

[eurikain]

Hi !
The pipes I got with my kit were PVC 6mm. However, I do not recommend those. Personally I find PVC too rigid and prefer much more plastic hose used in gas powered remote control airplanes. If there is a store close to your house that sell that kind of planes, just get it there. It's quite cheap. Otherwise you can order it online :)

[gabi68]

I have the pipes. my question was about the connection. The brass connector.
On mine (pump) the seller said is 18mm diameter outlet. I cant find anything with that dimension at one end and with 1/4" or 6mm on the other end.http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16044&stc=1

Hi !
The pipes I got with my kit were PVC 6mm. However, I do not recommend those. Personally I find PVC too rigid and prefer much more plastic hose used in gas powered remote control airplanes. If there is a store close to your house that sell that kind of planes, just get it there. It's quite cheap. Otherwise you can order it online :)

[eurikain]

Weird :/ Mine is different. It's made of plastic, exactly like the one on this kit:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CNC-Spindle-Kit-1-5KW-110V-Water-Cooling-Spindle-Motor-1-5kw-110V-Spindle-Interver-80mm/32389623774.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.91.C59pB1&ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_5,201409_1

Though I have to admit it was quite hard to fit the pipe that came with the spindle. The coupler I have has the same size as the one on the spindle.

[gabi68]

Many of you have the same setup. Where do you find the connector?

Cheers
Gabi

[JAZZCNC]

Many of you have the same setup. Where do you find the connector?

Cheers
Gabi

Not sure what your asking here . ? . . . The pump in the picture doesn't need or use a connector it's got a Barb so you just push the pipe on and clip it.!

If your wanting the Barb Fitting that screws into the pump then try these people.
http://airaccessories.fluidfittingsshop.com/Products/0033000a0007

[gabi68]

Hi JazzCNC,

The photo is for reference only. My pump came with a bigger plastic connector. I will have a look on that site.
Still maybe know where I can buy the right one. I bought the 3/4" barb and doesn't fit, it is a hair big...

Thx
Gabi

[mturneruk]

Got some Noob questions. Thanks for any help.

1. Can anyone confirm if its safe to power up the VFD without the spindle connected for setting the parameters at the beginning ?

2. I have already purchased 3 core foil shielded Belden Cable for my spindle.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111817521022
Is this ok ?
I just read i was supposed to use 4 core CY Cable.

3. Do i have to earth the spindle at the spindle end by removing the top and making a ground point and connect to pin 4?
E.g. Should I have 4 core cable as well as the shielding ?



Cheers
Martin

[Clive S]

Got some Noob questions. Thanks for any help.

1. Can anyone confirm if its safe to power up the VFD without the spindle connected for setting the parameters at the beginning ?

2. I have already purchased 3 core foil shielded Belden Cable for my spindle.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111817521022
Is this ok ?
I just read i was supposed to use 4 core CY Cable.

3. Do i have to earth the spindle at the spindle end by removing the top and making a ground point and connect to pin 4?
E.g. Should I have 4 core cable as well as the shielding ?



Cheers
Martin

1. I believe it is ok to run the vfd without being connected BUT do not connect or disconnect with it powered up.
2. Yes it will be OK CY cable is generally used but you have already purchased it so use it.
3. It is ok to earth the shield at the VFD end only, 4 core is not a necessity .

[Jonathan]

3. It is ok to earth the shield at the VFD end only, 4 core is not a necessity .

Just to clarify, this is true for the shield but you should ideally also earth the body of the spindle, not relying on earthing through the machine frame as the bearings are not predictable.

[Clive S]

Just to clarify, this is true for the shield but you should ideally also earth the body of the spindle, not relying on earthing through the machine frame as the bearings are not predictable.Yes I agree with that also it is a good idea to put some form of cable restraint on the spindle so as to stop the connections breaking in the plug and causing the VFD to fail.

[mturneruk]

In my Belden wire it has 3 insulated cores, an. Outer foil shield and a non insulated wire together with the shield. So are you saying connect the shield and non insulated wire to the spindle body at one end and to ground at the vfd end?

[Clive S]

In my Belden wire it has 3 insulated cores, an. Outer foil shield and a non insulated wire together with the shield. So are you saying connect the shield and non insulated wire to the spindle body at one end and to ground at the vfd end?Yes exactly that. You can solder or crimp .a short piece of wire and then put heat shrink on

[eurikain]

Yes exactly that. You can solder or crimp .a short piece of wire and then put heat shrink on

Clive, can you post a picture pleaaaaaase ?

[Clive S]

Clive, can you post a picture pleaaaaaase ?Sorry I don't have a picture. I use CY 4 core. Can you say what you are not understanding and I will try and explain better.

[eurikain]

I was talking about the part where you solder the cable to the shield. I'd be curious to see how you do it.

[Clive S]

I was talking about the part where you solder the cable to the shield. I'd be curious to see how you do it.Ok It depends on how course the weave is on the shield. If it is course you can use a pointed object and tease the cores out through it then you have a strand of shield left to solder to.
If it is tight weave then you have to cut it and then twist it to a strand with the ground drain wire and then solder an earth wire to that . use heat shrink to make it neat. In this pic it is the blue wire with green/yellow sleeve to identify it as earth star point. but the same can be done for the spindle.

[eurikain]

Thanks for the image :) I see what you mean.

Now, when you open the spindle cap, you just solder a wire from pin 4 to the spindle shield ? I mean, literally to the metallic shield right under the cap ?

[Clive S]

Thanks for the image :) I see what you mean.

Now, when you open the spindle cap, you just solder a wire from pin 4 to the spindle shield ? I mean, literally to the metallic shield right under the cap ?Ok it depends if you have 3 or 4 pins on your spindle socket if you have 4 one of them may not be connected to anything. I took the end cap off and soldered a wire to the vacant pin and put a longer screw in the socket and attached the wire to a ring connector which then fitted over the longer screw and fastened it with a nut inside. Then you can use that pin as the earth in the plug. If you only have 3 pins in the socket then you have to attach the earth to the spindle or clamp.

[eurikain]

Perfect description, thanks Clive, you're an ace :)

[eurikain]

I think the first post of this thread needs to be updated with the following information:



If you're controlling the spindle speed from Mach3, you also need to:
- set PD002 to 1. It might be done automatically, but it's worth checking.
- change the jumper on the right side of the VFD control terminal to VI instead of VR
Set PD070 according to your BOB's specifications. It is the input voltage that the VFD receives on its control terminal. My BOB sends 0-10V, so I had to change the setting. Check the manual for more information.


Cheers,
G.

[Lee Roberts]

Jazz previously suggested upgrading the coolant fittings on these spindles for some push fit/lock type, I like this idea so here is a link to some on eBay:

High Pressure Metal Push-in Fittings for Air or Central Lubrication Systems Tube

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/271182576634

You want the M8x1 fine thread option for the correct fit, dose/maybe the OP wants to add this info to the first post.

EDIT: Better prices and info can be found here:

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/9452-Water-cooled-spindle-tubing?goto=newpost

.Me

[D-man]

OK, guys so before I start plugging in wires is this diagram right?

I want to be able to start the spindle and control the RPM from the EDINGCNC Software

Link to the board manual in case needed http://www.edingcnc.com/upload/files/cpu5a_flyer_tech.pdf

18338
(http://www.edingcnc.com/upload/files/cpu5a_flyer_tech.pdf)

[lucan07]

Don't know if its just me but clicking on your diagram to view it locks my system, could be links blocked on my sysem for security reasons but only image on site I've tried to view that does this.

[Neale]

Not quite sure what it should be, but I don't think that there should be any connection to the "spindle sensor" pin. That's for sensing spindle position on a lathe for threading purposes, nothing to do with router spindle. I think you've wired the VFD so that it is forward-running only (no reverse, which seems reasonable) but there's no spindle start/stop signal from the board to VFD. I don't know how the Eding board and software handle for/rev or start/stop - I'm going through the same wiring design process with CSMIO/Mach3 and VFD which is a better-documented route.

[D-man]

Yeah seems a bit of a headache


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eurikain]

Here is how I have it wired:
18339
I don't have the same board as you but it'll give you an idea. Red / black controls the speed, purple / black controls the start/stop :)

[D-man]

Here is how I have it wired:
18339
I don't have the same board as you but it'll give you an idea. Red / black controls the speed, purple / black controls the start/stop :)

What board is that so I can get a little more info pal?

[Neale]

As far as I can see, the Eding manual says that you use the "tool" output pin as a start/stop signal to the VFD but I haven't worked out for myself which VFD pin it goes to yet - still reading that manual!

[D-man]

As far as I can see, the Eding manual says that you use the "tool" output pin as a start/stop signal to the VFD but I haven't worked out for myself which VFD pin it goes to yet - still reading that manual!

You're a gent! Thanks for taking the time!

I used to have the spindle running off the software but only start/stop I could control the RPM. The start stop was in pin 1 and pin 17

[eurikain]

What board is that so I can get a little more info pal?

Standard chinese Mach3 5 Axis Breakout Board:
User Manual of 5Axis Breakout Board - Mach3 (https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjDhpP2t7PMAhWiJsAKHXc1BhwQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.machsupport.com%2Fforum%2Fin dex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D29618.0%3Bat tach%3D40507&usg=AFQjCNH9X0BYQgc-jWmTqNv-W03KMGzhKw&sig2=CxolxtMuCRIMwh9bILXWWQ)

red/black is connected to a relay output, and purple/black to PWM 0-10V output.

[boatmiller]

I recently tried the hy inverter....it didn't last long. My recommendation is that if you are using it to make money...get a better one. I do alot of 3d milling of mdf for boat and custom car applications and I think the 3d roughing programs are a little much for that drive. I have recently moved on to a hitachi 2.2kw drive with the nice chinese spindle from ugra cnc and its seems much better. I am keeping the chinese spindle as a spare but I won't buy another hy. That's my 2 cents worth on that.

I have questions about the hitachi drive. There seems to be many optional safety features. I have the drive running the spindle and ran the bearings in today. Does anyone have any advice on what features of the drive should I use to optimize it for a cnc mill/router?? I am assuming that the drive automatically works well for safety and running without going into all that but why not optimize?? The drive also has self tuning that I haven't tried yet. I'm using the drive with analog input. Any suggestions or general methods of using this or any vfd are appreciated. I am using a line reactor on the input side. I actually just smoked a hitachi drive also and just tuned in the replacement but the factory thinks the first drive was defective.....we'll see after they inspect it. I just want to do everything I can to make the system as reliable as possible....the roughing paths using longer tools to reach into cavities is definitely are the hardest on the machine and run for hours on end sometimes. Any suggestions?? Thank you.

[toomast]

After a 2 week pause my router 2.2kw HY VFD blows C10A fuses as soon as I energize the circuit. Checked hole setup for wire damage- all good. Nothing is changed. Is my cheap VFD dead now?
Has anyone experienced something similar?

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

[Clive S]

After a 2 week pause my router 2.2kw HY VFD blows C10A fuses as soon as I energize the circuit. Checked hole setup for wire damage- all good. Nothing is changed. Is my cheap VFD dead now?
Has anyone experienced something similar?

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

First disconnect the spindle from the vfd and and see if it blows fuses without it connected

[toomast]

First disconnect the spindle from the vfd and and see if it blows fuses without it connectedHi. Thanks Clive!
Yes, it was the first thing I tried. Also checked cable with multimeter and spindle connector socket as well.

[toomast]

Problem solved: brand new Huanyang Inverter with 1 year warranty.
Lessons learned: Do not buy VFD in the beginning of the build. I wasted my old units warranty that way :(

[Leadhead]

My beloved sparky fell off his perch. In our 40+ years of acquaintance I did not pay sufficient attention and now I am paying the price. - I can hear him laughing down at me, with his never to be forgotten sense of humor.
So I am prostrate requesting some assistance wiring a new 2.2 spindle.
Just need to check. At the spindle end I have wired the cable cap 1,2,3, E. The fixed terminals on the spindle I believe need to be opened from the 4 screws and the earth connection made, to the underside of one of those screws??
Shielding at that end is twisted into three strands and fed back out of the cable cap. - The other end of the shielding at the VFD end is then twisted and grounded?

Please help me get up from the prostrate position as the wife is getting annoyed about hoovering round me!

[Clive S]

My beloved sparky fell off his perch. In our 40+ years of acquaintance I did not pay sufficient attention and now I am paying the price. - I can hear him laughing down at me, with his never to be forgotten sense of humor.
So I am prostrate requesting some assistance wiring a new 2.2 spindle.
Just need to check. At the spindle end I have wired the cable cap 1,2,3, E. The fixed terminals on the spindle I believe need to be opened from the 4 screws and the earth connection made, to the underside of one of those screws??
Shielding at that end is twisted into three strands and fed back out of the cable cap. - The other end of the shielding at the VFD end is then twisted and grounded?

Please help me get up from the prostrate position as the wife is getting annoyed about hoovering round me!

Have you checked to see the the 4th pin is connected to the case of the spindle (some are and some not).

You can remove the 4 screws from the socket and gently pull the socket upwards about 25mm then solder a wire onto pin 4 and pass it back up through one of the bolt holes and and then put the socket back down bolted with the 3 bolts with the new wire under the head of one of them.

I would rather do it this way than take the whole cap of the spindle

[Voicecoil]

Personally I wouldn't connect the screen at the spindle end - it's for screening the cable, the no.4 (E) connection is for earthing the spindle casing. At the VFD end you twist the screen and the 4/E connection and join to the earth terminal.

[Leadhead]

Hi - Guys
Just setup the wiring for standard Huanyang 2 .2 spindle and VFD.
About to sort settings for VFD. Some info suggests not to power up the VFD without the spindle connected.
Which is correct please. With spindle connected or without.
really dont need to smoke anything at this stage!!

[ericks]

No need to have the motor connected. I usually only connect the motor once i have programmed the drive and tested the "settings". Most important thing is to make sure you have the motor connected properly

[Clive S]

Hi - Guys
Just setup the wiring for standard Huanyang 2 .2 spindle and VFD.
About to sort settings for VFD. Some info suggests not to power up the VFD without the spindle connected.
Which is correct please. With spindle connected or without.
really dont need to smoke anything at this stage!!

There is no problem with starting the VFD with the spindle disconnected .BUT don't ever disconnect the spindle with the VFD running.

Always make sure you fasten (clamp) the spindle cable to a fixed point so that the plug does not move, as a bad connection in the plug or a spark WILL give you a fright and release some money from your wallet

[ericks]

Another thing to remember is to use the correct cable between the drive and motor. I just repaired a machine where the original builder used microphone cable (2.2 Kw Hy water cooled spindle)...besides the fact it's not rated for the voltage imagine the under size re current!!! If you can't confirm the voltage rating of the cable then just don't use it :)

[ericks]

Happened to document it....note also the soldering 26802

[Leadhead]

All up and running. Thank you gentlemen.

One more ask :- How do I connect the 12v water pump to the VFD please.

[MikeyC38]

Hi Leadhead

These are the 2 options I thought about

1) Don't bother and have a separate connection for you water pump. Switch it on manually before starting the CNC/VFD. This is what I have done
2) Or operate it through the break-out board on your cnc controller using a relay. You would then issue some Gcode to start the pump before the spindle start Gcode

Hope this helps
Mike

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Leadhead

These are the 2 options I thought about

1) Don't bother and have a separate connection for you water pump. Switch it on manually before starting the CNC/VFD. This is what I have done
2) Or operate it through the break-out board on your cnc controller using a relay. You would then issue some Gcode to start the pump before the spindle start Gcode

Hope this helps
Mike

No need to do either of those as it's very easy to let the VFD operate it.

There is relay built into the VFD which can be set up to turn on/off when spindle spins. By default it's set to operate when a fault occurs but with few parameter changes can be set
for on/off.

The relay connections are FB & FC just feed either the positive or Negative of the power going to pump through these terminals.
Then change parameter for these relays to work when Fwd is pressed, I think the parameter is PD52 or 53 but not got the manual in front of me so I can not check.

The relay then just becomes a switch to the pump.

[MikeyC38]

Hi Jazz
As always the font of wisdom for us newbies. I forgot about these ports on the VFD. I was thinking about these to enhance my safety system by getting the relay ( based on your wonderful simple design emergency stop setup) to signal the VFD to stop when the safety button switch is operated.

Cheers
Mike

[Voicecoil]

I'm thinking of adding a slight enhancement to the "pump switched by VFD" thing by sticking a flow sensor in the return line to the reservoir driving a relay. It's then pretty easy to sound an alarm if the pump is energised but insufficient water's flowing.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Jazz
As always the font of wisdom for us newbies. I forgot about these ports on the VFD. I was thinking about these to enhance my safety system by getting the relay ( based on your wonderful simple design emergency stop setup) to signal the VFD to stop when the safety button switch is operated.

Cheers
Mike

Yep, that would work and there are various ways it can be done, to be honest. The controller or Bob your using will also play some part in which approach to use.

If I'm using a controller that doesn't have relays built into it then I control a relay for on/off using an Output. I then use this relay to turn the water pump on as well.

[JAZZCNC]

I'm thinking of adding a slight enhancement to the "pump switched by VFD" thing by sticking a flow sensor in the return line to the reservoir driving a relay. It's then pretty easy to sound an alarm if the pump is energised but insufficient water's flowing.

If going to that trouble I'd be more inclined to fit the temp sensor on the spindle than worry about water flow. Or have both work together.

[Green Apple]

One other thing that should be done is to replace a power connector because the one that comes with 2.2kW spindle is not rated to 10A, but to something way below it.
About a month ago my HY VFD went up in smoke due to an arc that went across pins of my spindle power connector.
Today I'm looking at a new Altivar 320 to replace it and I need help with setting it up Altivar 320 VFD + ESS Smoothstepper + Mach4 + Gecko G540 (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13281-Altivar-320-VFD-ESS-Smoothstepper-Mach4-Gecko-G540)

[Clive S]

One other thing that should be done is to replace a power connector because the one that comes with 2.2kW spindle is not rated to 10A, but to something way below it.
About a month ago my HY VFD went up in smoke due to an arc that went across pins of my spindle power connector.

There is nothing wrong with the connector.

If the plug is not fitted correctly or is loose or a wire falls off the vfd will blow up. Always fit a cable strain clamp to the Z axis.

Never unplug the spindle or put any switch in thee cable from the vfd when the vfd in on.

[Wal]

+1 on what Clive has to say.

Happened to me recently - I was using a cable clamp so it had me scratching my head for a bit - turned out I had an oversized blob of solder on one of my pins that shorted against the inside of the connector's sleeve. Was purely luck that it hadn't done that before - I'd recently moved my machine into a new workspace and had to unplug and re-assemble everything - something moved and I wasn't as lucky this time around... Made quite a pop!

Wal.

[ericks]

One other thing that should be done is to replace a power connector because the one that comes with 2.2kW spindle is not rated to 10A, but to something way below it.
About a month ago my HY VFD went up in smoke due to an arc that went across pins of my spindle power connector.
Today I'm looking at a new Altivar 320 to replace it and I need help with setting it up Altivar 320 VFD + ESS Smoothstepper + Mach4 + Gecko G540 (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13281-Altivar-320-VFD-ESS-Smoothstepper-Mach4-Gecko-G540)

You are correct, some suppliers supply undersized/under rated connectors. Full load current of a three phase motor is not split between phases. However your spindle might never draw the full load current. But if your motor is rated for say 10A that means ten amps per phase and you should have a cable and plug that is rated minimum 10A...:)

...just to add, a loose connection is obviously something that will likely damage any connector no matter the current rating

[Kitwn]

+1 on what Clive has to say.

Happened to me recently - I was using a cable clamp so it had me scratching my head for a bit - turned out I had an oversized blob of solder on one of my pins that shorted against the inside of the connector's sleeve. Was purely luck that it hadn't done that before - I'd recently moved my machine into a new workspace and had to unplug and re-assemble everything - something moved and I wasn't as lucky this time around... Made quite a pop!

Wal.

A good reason for putting Hellerman or heat-shrink sleeving over each pin/wire.

Kit

[JAZZCNC]

You are correct, some suppliers supply undersized/under rated connectors. Full load current of a three phase motor is not split between phases. However your spindle might never draw the full load current. But if your motor is rated for say 10A that means ten amps per phase and you should have a cable and plug that is rated minimum 10A...:)

...just to add, a loose connection is obviously something that will likely damage any connector no matter the current rating

I have fitted well into the 100's of these Chinese spindles and I've had ZERO fail due to the connectors not being able to handle the load.
In my experience, the only weak link (other than being lower quality to brand names) with these spindles/VFD's is a lack of cable restraint. Both at the Spindle and the VFD you need to restrain the cable so the don't move around. I've only ever had 3 fails with connector faults and all of them where because the cable restraint I'd fitted had been left unconnected after the customer had moved or adjusted spindle etc and not fastened cables back up.

It's common sense really. . . which isn't so common these days.!

[Kitwn]

It's common sense really. . . which isn't so common these days.!
Oh yes, yes, yes, yes!!!!

[ericks]

I have fitted well into the 100's of these Chinese spindles and I've had ZERO fail due to the connectors not being able to handle the load.
In my experience, the only weak link (other than being lower quality to brand names) with these spindles/VFD's is a lack of cable restraint. Both at the Spindle and the VFD you need to restrain the cable so the don't move around. I've only ever had 3 fails with connector faults and all of them where because the cable restraint I'd fitted had been left unconnected after the customer had moved or adjusted spindle etc and not fastened cables back up.

It's common sense really. . . which isn't so common these days.!

From your reply i would say you are unaware of proper wiring and component selection requirements :)

[cropwell]

From your reply i would say you are unaware of proper wiring and component selection requirements :)

I seriously doubt that Jazz is unaware of anything to do with CNC.

[Neale]

I think the finger really needs to be pointed at the people who fitted GX16-type connectors in the first place - the spindle manufacturers. Looking at spec sheets, these do seem to be nominally rated at 5A, although quite how "hard" a limit that is is open to discussion. I'm not sure that the connectors are capable of even taking a cable that is nominally rated for 10A.

In practice, in the amateur machines where these spindles are typically used, I doubt that they often are used for continuous currents like this. Attention to proper cable management and avoiding flex in the connectors is probably a bigger issue. My own spindle and HY VFD are now in use in a second router and are about 7 years old, still going strong. In fact, outlived the PC and monitor that drive the machine, both of which have needed replacement in that time...

[cropwell]

27012

The connector on the left is a GX16, the one on the right is a spindle connector.

Internally they are a bit different, the spindle connector is a much higher current and voltage rating.

27013

You can plug the GX16 into a spindle, but it is a sloppy fit and not a good connection.

[JAZZCNC]

From your reply i would say you are unaware of proper wiring and component selection requirements :)

Well, you'd be wrong but your reply tells me you have little to no experience of these Spindles.! . . . However, Lets put this to the test because I know lots of folks on this Forum have these spindles and see how many on this forum have had issues with loads and pins/connector.?

So Hands up who as one of these spindles and as had troubles with the pins NOT handling the loads.! By this I mean Pins burning out or catching fire due to excessive load and not spindles blowing up because pins touched due to poor soldering/insulation or bad cable management.!

[Neale]

You can plug the GX16 into a spindle, but it is a sloppy fit and not a good connection.

I use a bunch of GX16 (at least, that's what the Aliexpress seller called them!) for signal connections on my control box and never actually put one alongside the spindle connector to look at the difference. Just assumed that they were the same as they are superficially very similar. So much for assumptions! Surprised if they had a much higher current rating as the pin/socket size must be very similar but I guess that it's all down to how well they fit, spring mechanism, etc. Thanks for the correction, Rob - if I ever need to replace my spindle connector I'll make sure I get the right thing!

[cropwell]

One other thing that should be done is to replace a power connector because the one that comes with 2.2kW spindle is not rated to 10A, but to something way below it.
About a month ago my HY VFD went up in smoke due to an arc that went across pins of my spindle power connector.
Today I'm looking at a new Altivar 320 to replace it and I need help with setting it up Altivar 320 VFD + ESS Smoothstepper + Mach4 + Gecko G540 (http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13281-Altivar-320-VFD-ESS-Smoothstepper-Mach4-Gecko-G540)

Your picture looks as though you had some conductive contamination in the connector on the spindle.

[cropwell]

Hi Brian,

I have a feeling that the spindle connectors are GX-20 or a derivation thereof. I am pretty sure that the GX series started out as aviation audio connectors (pilot's headset) and have been taken on by the world of amateur CNC. They are useful connectors though, but probably a bit too lightweight to chew mains voltages, but OK for small steppers and signals.

Cheers,

Rob

[Wal]

>because pins touched due to poor soldering

Hehe. Dean, the soldering was good, it's just that there was too much of good soldering..! ;)

Wal.

[JAZZCNC]

>because pins touched due to poor soldering

Hehe. Dean, the soldering was good, it's just that there was too much of good soldering..! ;)

Wal.

Not the first wal, won't be the last and it's all good learning, expensive but good..:yahoo:

[Voicecoil]

Hi Brian,

I have a feeling that the spindle connectors are GX-20 or a derivation thereof. I am pretty sure that the GX series started out as aviation audio connectors (pilot's headset) and have been taken on by the world of amateur CNC. They are useful connectors though, but probably a bit too lightweight to chew mains voltages, but OK for small steppers and signals.

Cheers,

Rob

Looking at the connector on my spindle it's a tad larger than a GX-20 (I'm wiring up a load of those at the moment!), maybe more like a GX-25?? They have a voltage rating of 400V RMS in a 4 pole according to the Renhotec catalogue, so ought to be OK for most of the time. The only issue once in a blue moon might be spikes due to ringing as a consequence of poor cable, long cable runs etc. increasing the peak voltage.

[ericks]

Hi Brian,

I have a feeling that the spindle connectors are GX-20 or a derivation thereof. I am pretty sure that the GX series started out as aviation audio connectors (pilot's headset) and have been taken on by the world of amateur CNC. They are useful connectors though, but probably a bit too lightweight to chew mains voltages, but OK for small steppers and signals.

Cheers,

Rob

Yes, i have found some spindles with these audio connectors. Also found guys using audio screened cable on 2.2Kw spindle motors. That is why i said some suppliers wrongly use these connectors. And some diy hobby builders use the wrong cables.

[Kitwn]

>because pins touched due to poor soldering

Hehe. Dean, the soldering was good, it's just that there was too much of good soldering..! ;)

Wal.

The old maxim that "the bigger the blob, the better the job" was NEVER good soldering :stung:

Scrupulous cleanliness is the key, a one molecule thick layer of grease from your fingers is enough to ruin what could have been a good joint.

Kit

PS Like, wow man! far out! That was a seriously good joint, dude.

[aprex]

Hi,

Advice of the day: don't wait 3 months before testing your fresh received toy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUZyw0eeSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfNIaMwcSyo

So disappointed.

Best regards

[Clive S]

Hi,

Advice of the day: don't wait 3 months before testing your fresh received toy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUZyw0eeSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfNIaMwcSyo

So disappointed.

Best regards

Have you set the parameters in the VFD

[aprex]

Yes, even by hand you can hear a discrète grinding noise.

[Clive S]

Yes, even by hand you can hear a discrète grinding noise.
Think I might be buying another from the same place and sending the old one back for a refund

[AndyUK]

:concern: oooh you fiend!

[aprex]

No mercy when you read their answers to my problem; warrant y or exchange/refund, they're deaf...
I hope return address is the same as sending address (deuchland). Shipping cost could be a pita :mask:

[JAZZCNC]

Hi,

Advice of the day: don't wait 3 months before testing your fresh received toy...

So disappointed.

Best regards

This advice goes for anything related to CNC, esp electronics. This is the biggest mistake new builders make next to buying stepper kits.
Only buy when required because not only do you get a warranty when needed but electronics change fast these days and it's sod's law when you fit it you are already behind the times in technology.

[Kitwn]

Very sorry to read about your problems.

Clearly the ideal solution is replacement by the supplier or manufacturer. If you bought it within the EU you should have some protection (unlike our pommie friends since Friday :excitement:) and it may be worth checking if your method of purchase offers any protection or insurance.

If they refuse to help you then there may be people on this site with experience of dismantling and repairing these spindles who can advise you. It sounds like a bearing problem which is something you may be able to repair yourself with the right help.

[aprex]

Thanks a lot Kitwn, you're right, speaking with my seller makes me understand than it will be a DIY story...
Well, little humor story just for fun:

Just finished my CNC and started the spindle; this one makes a very bad bearing noise. I can upload a video for you. Very disappointed...
Best regards
31/01 07:15

Dear friend,
don't worry,our engineer tell us ,that is no problem, and he said: when the spindle bearing in the high-speed operation, the start state is unstable, may be possible to produce a variety of noise, the noise is the product in the transport process in the accumulation of grease caused by the side,until the grease dispersed after the spindle no such, you can use it ,
Thanks
Kind regards

Cher ami,
Ne vous inquiétez pas, notre ingénieur nous dit, ce n'est pas un problème, et il a dit: lorsque le roulement de la broche dans l'opération à grande vitesse, l'état de démarrage est instable, peut être possible de produire une variété de bruit, Le bruit est le produit dans le processus de transport dans l'accumulation de graisse causée par le côté, jusqu'à ce que la graisse se dissipe après la broche, vous pouvez l'utiliser,
Merci
Cordialement
31/01 08:03

Dear friend,
I don't think, it's a grinding noise, when you turn the spindle by hand you can hear a grinding noise. Even when you run it at 6000rpm. Do you have a mail address to upload you a video?
Thanks by advance
31/01 09:21

I'll upload the video on youtube and send you the link later.Best regards.
31/01 09:29

https://youtu.be/2xUZyw0eeSg
01/02 06:17

Dear friend,
many thanks for your buying,
pls follow this information :VFD input R,S,T port,any two ports connecting mains 220 V/AC and on the spindle motor connerter 1,2,3, connection to on the inverter :U,V,W, the mean is 1=U,2=V,3=W, 4 is blank, can't connection to GND, The minimum speed of the spindle should not be less than 9000rpm .and the VFD don't need any setting, that will be to work,
if you need any help,pls let me know,
Kind regards

Cher ami,
Merci beaucoup pour votre achat,
Veuillez suivre ces informations: entrée VFD R, S, port T, tous les deux ports connectant le secteur 220 V/AC et sur le connecteur de moteur de broche 1,2, 3, connexion sur l'onduleur: u, V, W, la moyenne est 1 = U, 2 = V, 3 = W, 4 est vide, ne peut pas se connecter à GND, la vitesse minimale de la broche ne devrait pas être inférieure à 9000 tr/min. Et le VFD n'a pas besoin de réglage, ce sera pour fonctionner,
Si vous avez besoin d'aide, veuillez me le faire savoir,
Cordialement

pls notice The minimum speed of the spindle should not be less than 9000rpm
Veuillez noter que la vitesse minimale de la broche ne doit pas être inférieure à 9000 tr/min

01/02 10:26

Dear friend, https://youtu.be/pfNIaMwcSyo Just checked of course, my wiring is ok. Each minute of running becomes worst and worst. Even the speed is not stable, a faulty bearing I think.It's clear for me, this one is defective...
Best regards.
01/02 15:24

This is damaged bearings spindle motor, pls check it : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G7lbZq704aAVjqkjkxXU2Hd8L6He0ThU/view?usp=sharing
Ceci est endommagé moteur de broche de roulements, veuillez le vérifier: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G7lbZq704aAVjqkjkxXU2Hd8L6He0ThU/view?usp=sharing
01/02 16:25

I never used it, can't I have an exchange?
02/02 05:58

we will send video to our engineer and help you solve the problem
Nous enverrons une vidéo à notre ingénieur et vous aiderons à résoudre le problème
Hier 09:52

Dear P....e, Confirmed through numerous forums as cnczone and mycncuk; is there any warranty?
Best regards
02:50

The spindle motor no any problem, i don't understand, , what you need warranty ?
Le moteur de broche pas de problème, je ne comprends pas,, que vous avez besoin de garantie?
07:32

You just said : This is damaged bearings spindle motor, pls check it : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G7lbZq704aAVjqkjkxXU2Hd8L6He0ThU/view?usp=sharing
Isn't it a failure?!
10:11

but you spindle motor problem don't same as this spindle motor
Mais vous problème de moteur de broche ne sont pas les mêmes que ce moteur de broche
Alibaba Translation
10:39

All apologies. This is my spindle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUZyw0eeSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfNIaMwcSyo
so, What is my problem?

you don't have any problem of your motor, you can use it
Vous n'avez pas de problème de votre moteur, vous pouvez l'utiliser

!!!!!!! It spins, so it works!!!!

[Neale]

Oh, you just need to translate the noise into Chinese so that they can understand it!

[aprex]

For sure, perhaps it's just out of tune :listening_headphone:

[cropwell]

Mandarin chinese 它使他妈的他妈的噪音 translated roughly 'it makes f*cking grinding noise'.

[driftspin]

Mandarin chinese 它使他妈的他妈的噪音 translated roughly 'it makes f*cking grinding noise'.Hi cropwell!

That made me laugh.


On topic:
We can start a campaign if the shop dont want to help you.

It sounds like they try to play stupid and hope you loose interest.

I must say i have had good service when i had a problem with my bearing blocks.

Must be said i also announced me being on this forum.



Grtz Bert.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk

[aprex]

Thank you all for your involvement, the fact that it's one of the bigger seller disappointed me. I had a very good experience with the BST Automation after sale service and thought it will be the same... Thanks again. News from my old friend, just one sentence: "The sound of grease".
The sound of 'missing' grease for me...:whistle:

[aprex]

27374

Some news: solded as a 4 bearings unit, well well well.

[AndyUK]

Yeah. What you're missing is that there's probably only four ball bearings in that!

[aprex]

Yes, four square balls .:tennis:

[routercnc]

Just listened to the video and I have heard people talk about the settling of grease in bearings (clough42 channel where he showed a very nice spindle with PDB made in the US that had a small amount of chatter). So my own view is that it can be a cause but this sounds too loud.

My bet would be the bearings are skipping around as the noise is quite loud. Are the bearings a press or good fit on the spindle shaft and housing? Wonder if they are machined out of spec?

Do you have tools to measure the fits ?

If the bearings spin nicely in your hand try loctiting them place if you are looking to try and repair it yourself.

[Kitwn]

I've been looking for the difinitive "How to dissassemble, re-grease and reassemble your 2.2Kw water cooled spindle without breaking it" thread but haven't found it. I'm sure a list of key pointers to what you must and must not do and what tools you must have before you begin would be much appreciated by many readers contemplating a check of their bearings. Is this something the pro users do regularly?

[aprex]

Spindle: 1 Me: 0
It's a pita because you must fabricate your tools, and even they easily breaks (only 2.5mm pins...). You must heat at least 3 minutes in full power with your heater before trying unscrew this "#&@% full of holes". I enlarged them to 5mm,. But after this first victory, there's another flange. End of the story for me.
27398
27399
27400
27401
2740227403
The 6002 bearing must have the large side pointed to the top. It's not a radial bearing.

[Ole Tex]

Hi Jonathan,

I have just put together WorkBee 1000 x 1000 mm CNC machine. I am totally intimidated by the electronics. I purchased this machine from a firm in China and the directions for electronics are either nonexistent or (for me) undecipherable. Can you put me in touch with anyone who can walk me through this electronic challenge?
I have a Huanyang GDZ-80-1.5 11V 1.5Kw 5A 400Hz spindle, an HY01D511B , an LRS-350-24, a UNO cardstepper card.
Thank you for your time.

[Len-Tikular]

I'm using a 400Hz 220V 24,000RPM Spindle motor from Vevor

Can anyone remind me of the Mitsubishi FR-D720 parameter settings for this motor please.