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GEOFFREY
11-04-2013, 03:21 PM
I have just "won" an ebay auction for Item No. 261195190167. The seller seemed to be a very nice and helpful person. The item is listed as being in Lossiemouth, Scotland.
Despite the fact it is listed as free delivery I stated that I would like to collect (at my own expense), but it proved inconvenient to the seller for me to do so. The seller stated that he had been a victim of a spoof email and had his Pay Pal account made inoperative. He then asked for me to pay the money into a bank account whose sort number proved to be in Leicester. Everything about the sale seems to be genuine, i.e ebay feed back good, private email address and bank account in the same name. Since I refused to pay any money other than by Pay Pal or cash on collection I have been unable to get any response to my request to arrange for collection and payment, despite many phone calls and emails. I find this very sad as I really wanted this machine. It was listed on ebay as a three day auction and had only one photograph shown. On requesting further details I was sent via email several other photographs and was given serial numbers for the machine and controller. I shall not pay any money until I see this machine!!

87178718871987208721872287238724

Does anybody recognise these pictures?

Disappointed Geoff.

bikepete
11-04-2013, 03:37 PM
First one is also at:

Transport a Vision 2448 CNC RouterEngraver TableMachine No Res to ventura (http://www.uship.com/shipment/Vision-2448-CNC-RouterEngraver-TableMach/51925434/)

Smells like a scammer I'm afraid...

Jonathan
11-04-2013, 03:49 PM
Not a great machine, I'd leave it as you're not missing much.

GEOFFREY
11-04-2013, 03:58 PM
Thanks Pete, the reason I made the post is because I think it is a scam and thought somebody may recognise the pictures. How on earth did you find that one? G.

GEOFFREY
11-04-2013, 04:04 PM
Thanks Jonathan, I was aware I would get that sort of comment on this site, but I only use 3.2mm mdf and 1.6mm birch ply when making my 1/48th scale models. The working area of 24" x 48" is ideal for me (1/4 sheet). I am sure that this would have been fine for my work had it been genuine. G.

Jonathan
11-04-2013, 04:08 PM
Fair enough, even a machine with unsupported rails would be fine or such thin materials, so long as the feedrates are respectable. 2200 seems a lot of money for what it is.

bikepete
11-04-2013, 04:38 PM
Thanks Pete, the reason I made the post is because I think it is a scam and thought somebody may recognise the pictures. How on earth did you find that one? G.

Google Images search for "Vision 2448 CNC" :-)

D-man
11-04-2013, 04:42 PM
I looked and asked about this but never got a reply. Sounds as tho Lady Luck was with me. Walk away fella smells funny if you ask me.

Tenson
11-04-2013, 04:48 PM
The upside-down open bearing rails don't exactly look good.

D.C.
11-04-2013, 05:04 PM
The seller stated that he had been a victim of a spoof email and had his Pay Pal account made inoperative. He then asked for me to pay the money into a bank account whose sort number proved to be in Leicester.

Paypal sorts this stuff out pretty quick, it is screaming scam.

It is more likely the person is a scammer who has had his paypal account suspended for scamming which is why paypal won't do business with him anymore...

If you really want to risk it offer to wait a week while he gets his paypal account sorted out, send it via the ebay messaging and refuse to communicate with him outside of it.

But you do realise it's 99% probability scam and and 1% probability legit sale right?

GEOFFREY
11-04-2013, 05:18 PM
Thanks D.C. and all the others who have posted. I did twig it was a scam when he refused my offer to pay cash on collection (although I suppose I could have been lead up a backstreet and mugged for the cash). I did google looking for archive pictures when I became suspiciuos, did not find the any the same as was sent - well done Pete. My guess is that the 1% chance of it being legit is wildly over estimated. This is the first time I become personally involved with an ebay scam. Has any other person heard of a scam like that for a cnc machine? G.

WandrinAndy
11-04-2013, 05:55 PM
Well spotted Geoffrey, this smells like a fishy $%&&*.......... and it's just struck me that's it's now been waaaay too long since this sad old fart smelt one of those. :friendly_wink:

m_c
11-04-2013, 07:52 PM
Looks suspicious.

Ebay account that's been inactive for a while, then suddenly being used to sell a high value item is always suspicious (there is a blackmarket trade in good/hacked ebay accounts).
Best get a case started on ebay with all the details, and let them look into it.

martin54
11-04-2013, 08:15 PM
Been a few of these vision machines on ebay over the last few months, selling price has always been about the same sort of money. As has been said there is a market for hacked ebay accounts & funnily enough I was offered a second chance on a wide format printer about a year or so ago, seller had good feedback & was polite & helpful but wanted the money paying into a bank account rather than through paypal. The item was listed as being somewhere North of Aberdeen (can't remember exactly where) & the bank account sort code was..............You guessed it Leicester !!!

ebay sent me a warning a day or so latter but I wasn't going to pay him anyway.

Martin

m_c
11-04-2013, 08:32 PM
If a seller with low feedback, or little recent activity tries to force you into avoiding paypal and using some other form of online payment, then report it to ebay immediately.
You've been sensible, queried things, and avoided being scammed, but others may not be as sensible.
As soon as you have doubts, raise a case. The quicker you raise a case, the sooner ebay can stop any would be scammers.

dannyj2009
11-04-2013, 10:53 PM
Totally agree on what been said here I’ve been looking for a cnc router for a while on eBay and their does appear to be a few scams going about selling cnc machines usually I’ve seen them being sold around Scotland and usually includes free delivery which doesn’t make sense due to the cost involved I did see someone put an advert warning people about it as well, also one last thing they usually have 0 feedback as well.

GEOFFREY
11-04-2013, 11:04 PM
Thanks m_c. I have already reported the case to both ebay and paypal. I have also contacted the bank (Barclays) at Leicester
and given them the details of the account number and name. Prior to bidding I telephoned the manufacturers in America who confirmed the serial numbers, but did say it was a 110V spindle. This did put me on my guard, but when asked to pay outside of ebay/paypal I was fairly sure it was probably a scam, and wondered if anyone here would recognise the pictures. G.

birchy
11-04-2013, 11:56 PM
That's quite a common scam I'm afraid. There is/was loads of "reasonably priced" Harley Davidsons, Porsches, etc, etc on Gum Tree. The basic scam is that you had to pay first to "release" the item from some shipping yard or secure compound or whatever but viewing is NEVER an option. They always insist on payment via bank transfer, money bookers, western union, etc, etc. If it was genuine, the seller would have been more than happy to accept cash on collection as it saves him/her the hassle of shipping it. The fact it was a short auction just makes this fish even more fishy.

So well done on avoiding these scammers!!

AdCNC
12-04-2013, 01:02 AM
Bit of a pattern here but i was going to buy a colchester lathe of ebay and it was for sale in... you guessed it, Leicester. the photos looked all good but i was out bid. i thought oh well and left it at that, only to receive a second chance offer about 1hr after the auction had ended, i got in contact with the seller who seemed genuine at the time but things started to look iffy as time and relations progressed. literally 24hrs after first talking to the chap he was very rude because i would not pay direct into his account before i even saw it. even tho i told him i will pay cash on collection . that was not good enough.. obviously he knew what his game was and nicely told me to F**k off and sounded very frustrated that he didn't receive any of my money directly into his account.

Anyways a few days later i was on a machine tools dealer website and would you believe it i came across the same photos that this "scammer" said he took and posted of the lathe in question.

Musht
12-04-2013, 01:50 AM
Well spotted Geoffrey, good that that *you* got away with the money.

First thing to remember is that Ebay and Paypal are less than interested, attempt to get paid outside of Pyapla make it easier to collect cash but paypal does not get involved in item significantly not as described arguments, SNAD , paid for CNC got shipped a brick, all Paypal and Ebay are worried about is a tracking number, brick with tracking will be fine by them...

Ebay makes their fees and `is only a venue`

Scammer is probably not in Leicester or even possibly U.K., the north of Aberdeen locations make it likely that people won`t want to pick up, another variation is central London but secure storage that won`t admit visitors.

The shill bidding oops when have to drop to second chance offers rather just than running the price up, but guaranteed it is the most they will pay , plus shipping ;-)

GEOFFREY
12-04-2013, 02:01 AM
Well spotted Geoffrey, this smells like a fishy $%&&*.......... and it's just struck me that's it's now been waaaay too long since this sad old fart smelt one of those. :friendly_wink:

Do you think you'l do any better in NZ? G.

HankMcSpank
12-04-2013, 02:40 AM
About 4 months ago I logged into my ebay account to see someone had listed a Nissan 4WD for sale in my ebay account!

The hacker/scammer who hijacked my account had obviously listed it at a low price....there were 30 watchers & my messages were full of people desperate to buy it.

I delisted the advert, changed my password & told ebay...I've no idea how he got in there (don't recall being phished...I'm pretty 'on my guard' for such ruses) ...I guess the scammer was hoping I wouldn't login, by which time he'd have completed the transaction 'off ebay'.

he'd changed the nominated 'contact seller email address' within my ebay account & weirdly (surprisingly) Ebay doesn't notify the account owner under this circumstance (only when the bigger things are changed, like registered email address, password etc) ...so he was able o communicate with all the potential buyers without me having any knowledge.

GEOFFREY
12-04-2013, 08:48 AM
About 4 months ago I logged into my ebay account to see someone had listed a Nissan 4WD for sale in my ebay account!

The hacker/scammer who hijacked my account had obviously listed it at a low price....there were 30 watchers & my messages were full of people desperate to buy it.

I delisted the advert, changed my password & told ebay...I've no idea how he got in there (don't recall being phished...I'm pretty 'on my guard' for such ruses) ...I guess the scammer was hoping I wouldn't login, by which time he'd have completed the transaction 'off ebay'.

he'd changed the nominated 'contact seller email address' within my ebay account & weirdly (surprisingly) Ebay doesn't notify the account owner under this circumstance (only when the bigger things are changed, like registered email address, password etc) ...so he was able o communicate with all the potential buyers without me having any knowledge.

I don't know how ebay can allow that to happen. I also feel that this is fraud, and don't understand why both the bank and police do not seem to be interested. If I wish to open a new bank account there are guidelines and check-ups. the scammer must be traceable via the money route surely? G.

Musht
12-04-2013, 12:25 PM
I don't know how ebay can allow that to happen.

Ebay is only a venue is their much repeated mantra.

As a venue for sellers , they are a very hostile host with a bizarre attachment to long outmoded feedback ratings.

For buyers , Buyer Protection is actually just a pretty pic on the log in page.

Police won`t get involved in anything involving credit card fraud and lot of ebay scams are cross border to boot.

Even legitimate vendors have to play some starnge games to remain selling on ebay, bit more detail....

eBay Suspension & Paypal Limited Forums (http://www.aspkin.com/forums/)

Fivetide
12-04-2013, 02:39 PM
Geoff, don’t worry I contacted my brother who’s the finance minister for Kenya, and he says it sounds pretty legit to him ! I hate scammers ! But like EvE online where there was a massive debate about banning them from the game, the makers came back with the answer that there will always be scammers in real life. I put my carving up for sale on Folksy the first 3 emails where all scammers. Report it to Ebay and walk away mate .. sure there will be a legit one come along soon enough.

WandrinAndy
12-04-2013, 03:16 PM
Do you think you'l do any better in NZ? G.

Gawd, I hope so! At least one more time! I'm hoping that when I get to Oz, I'll come across at least one Sheila who finds my portly body and funny accent totally irresistible.:friendly_wink:

GEOFFREY
12-04-2013, 03:38 PM
Andy,sorry, NZ OZ - its all greek to me. G.

GEOFFREY
12-04-2013, 03:42 PM
Your'e right Fivetide. Sorry to hear youv'e had scammers on folksy too. Such a shame that the few spoil so much for the rest of us. G.

martin54
12-04-2013, 03:51 PM
It's human nature unfortunately Geoffrey, always has been & always will be people looking to make a fast buck & not bothered who gets hurt in the process. Only difference now is the internet has opened up the playing field for them.

Fivetide
12-04-2013, 04:56 PM
I'll come across at least one Sheila who finds my portly body and funny accent totally irresistible.:friendly_wink:

I "come" across several and I aint no Brat Pit ! I loved Oz , I dont regret much in life but not taking a job offer and path to green card is one of them, but I had a young daughter back home and tbh it was my 2nd mid life crisis.. to old now otherwise I'd pack my bags and say "Ow-yer-goin-mate" lol


Your'e right Fivetide. Sorry to hear youv'e had scammers on folksy too. Such a shame that the few spoil so much for the rest of us. G.

Yeah mate spoils it for everyone.. hoping one day they can insta-trace the bastards and nuke them from space !

WandrinAndy
13-04-2013, 10:12 PM
There's another one here that somehow just seems "iffy" to me? : Denford NovaMill CNC Milling Machine with Dell PC & Software Ready to go | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denford-NovaMill-CNC-Milling-Machine-with-Dell-PC-Software-Ready-to-go-/290898420685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43bae5a3cd)

Or maybe the discussion on this thread has made me paranoid, seeing a scammer behind every bush!!

Edited as I've had a relook and it probably is totally ok, so apologies for shouting wolf.... probably.

dannyj2009
13-04-2013, 11:06 PM
It looks like this one is ok judging by the feedback. It may look iffy to you as some sellers dont do collection no harm in being cautious.

GEOFFREY
14-04-2013, 12:14 AM
There's another one here that somehow just seems "iffy" to me? : Denford NovaMill CNC Milling Machine with Dell PC & Software Ready to go | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denford-NovaMill-CNC-Milling-Machine-with-Dell-PC-Software-Ready-to-go-/290898420685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43bae5a3cd)

Or maybe the discussion on this thread has made me paranoid, seeing a scammer behind every bush!!

Edited as I've had a relook and it probably is totally ok, so apologies for shouting wolf.... probably.

Thanks Andy, but I am 100% sure this one is legit. the seller is offering to give a machine demo on collection, so I would have no worries at all. The novamill is a nice little Mill (I have had one, and a starmill, its predecessor) and as most are ex school/colledge they have usually had very little use and are in good clean condition. G.

GMCNC
24-04-2013, 10:42 PM
Its a defo scam, I have also seen them advertise CNC machines adn they also have the same adverts running on Gumtree often. :ambivalence: