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View Full Version : Small metal Lathes / IE 350 to 50W machines



dudz
17-08-2013, 06:48 PM
The more I play about with my CNC, the more I find I need a lathe to mill round or square solid bar for small projects.

My question is, when you buy a mini lathe such as the "Metal Worker Super C3 Mini-Lathe " or simular, do you get everything you need to ; as an example = milling down a 40mmx100mm round solid bar of mild steel to 35mmx100mm, then cutting a round pocket in the center at one end ?

Or are there hundreds of pounds to be spent for bigger jaws and different cutters etc before you can start to do such things ?

I have never owned one, so I do not have any exp with this.

dudz
17-08-2013, 06:52 PM
Title is supposed to read 350 to 500W !!

mekanik
17-08-2013, 07:09 PM
Hi dudz
Just had a quick look @ that and you appear to get a 3 Jaw Chuck as standard, for turning(not milling) square stock you will require the optional extra of the 80mm 4 Jaw Chuck which should possibly be able to grip 75mm stock, then you will need cutting tools to put in the toolpost

dudz
17-08-2013, 07:14 PM
Hi dudz
Just had a quick look @ that and you appear to get a 3 Jaw Chuck as standard, for turning(not milling) square stock you will require the optional extra of the 80mm 4 Jaw Chuck which should possibly be able to grip 75mm stock, then you will need cutting tools to put in the toolpost

Ah Ok thanks...

What cutting tools would I need to take material from the outside and/or inside of the stock ?

mekanik
17-08-2013, 07:17 PM
You taking the Pi** M8

dudz
17-08-2013, 07:43 PM
Uuuhh No. I simply do not have any idea !

I know there are different cutting tools, but I have absolutely no idea other than that.
If I was Taking the P**** I would come round your house and do it.

JAZZCNC
17-08-2013, 07:46 PM
You taking the Pi** M8

Nothing wrong with that question.??

DudZ for inside turning you need a Boring bar and for general outside or face turning then you just need standard tooling which comes in few forms.
Have a look on this page and you'll see sets cheap enough to get you going,Lathe Tools - Arc Euro Trade (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Lathe-Tools)
When you get more into it you'll probably buy a few of the indexable tools. Look for indexable tooling and you'll see different forms and cutting angle's etc.

dudz
17-08-2013, 07:50 PM
Great... Will do thx.

Just suming up wether it is more practicle to pay someone else to do the turning or set myself up. So gathering all the info I can.

JAZZCNC
17-08-2013, 07:57 PM
Great... Will do thx.

Just suming up wether it is more practicle to pay someone else to do the turning or set myself up. So gathering all the info I can.

Can't answer that question but what I can tell you is that the lathe is the Most useful tool in my shop and I wouldn't be without one. . . .It's also SOOOO therapeutic and rewarding.!!!

mekanik
17-08-2013, 08:04 PM
Nice one jazz, had a change of heart & went to the same spot as you.Lathe Tools - Arc Euro Trade (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Lathe-Tools)

irving2008
17-08-2013, 08:24 PM
You taking the Pi** M8

Strange as it may seem, there are many people who may have extensive experience of CNC Routers, 3D printers, etc. who have never seen, let alone used a lathe (or for that matter a proper milling machine). So its a perfectly reasonable question. Working with round, rather than flat, stock is a whole new ball game even tho many skills are transferable.


@dudz. Have a look at the videos at MIT TechTV – Videos (http://techtv.mit.edu/genres/24-how-to/videos?order=popular&view=list)
specifically the two titled Machine Shop 8 and 9. Bit dated, old big machines and American, but still a useful intro to the skills...

mekanik
17-08-2013, 08:36 PM
Dudz
apologies for any offense

Jonathan
17-08-2013, 08:42 PM
Look for indexable tooling and you'll see different forms and cutting angle's etc.

One thing worth mentioning about the indexable tooling is not to get one of those sets with lots of different tools for a seemingly good price. Apparently they'll be poor quality, so you're much better off buying just the ones you need individually. To start with you're probably much better off using HSS tool steel and grinding your own since it's really easy to do and saves a lot of money. It's only when you start cutting hard materials, or bigger quantities that you'll get fed up of regrinding the tool and want a carbide one.

birchy
17-08-2013, 08:59 PM
Apparently they'll be poor quality, so you're much better off buying just the ones you need individually.
In addition to this, particularly if buying from eBay, make yourself familiar with what's in the the "machine tool sets". Some sellers start off with these but sell the contents individually to make more profit.

bikepete
17-08-2013, 10:00 PM
...an example = milling down a 40mmx100mm round solid bar of mild steel to 35mmx100mm, then cutting a round pocket in the center at one end ?


If this is a typical size job then IMO and if you have room you would be better off with something bigger than a C3. Just looked on Arc Euro and it only weighs 40 kg.

The job is within its size spec (I think - swing over cross-slide is not given) so you should be able to do it via loads of small cuts but the speed and sheer pleasure of doing the same job on say 400kg of secondhand proper industrial lathe is in a different league.

Something like a secondhand Boxford should cost much the same money and be a gazillion times stronger and more rigid. Loads on ebay, Gumtree, etc., choose one with all the tooling. May be a bit worn but for me, I'd live with that rather than try turning big lumps of steel on a wet noodle of a 40 kg machine. Info at e.g.

Boxford Lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/index.html)

IMO of course but the extra power and weight of a 'proper' lathe (and there are plenty of others apart from Boxford) is well worth the effort to get one moved...

Personally I'd get a three phase machine and power it on an inverter (smoother, gives you variable speed) but there are plenty of single phase motor Boxfords around if this isn't something you don't fancy tackling straight away.

If you've no space not an option perhaps but worth considering IMO.

Oh and interrupted cuts on square stock will show up the difference even more - don't think taking 40mm square steel to round on a C3 would be much fun (but would admit I've never owned one - but I did have a Myford for a while and that was bad enough - get heavier than that too for 40mm steel!)

m_c
17-08-2013, 10:16 PM
iwonderifleewilleverstopfeckingwithsettings

dudz
17-08-2013, 10:38 PM
Dudz
apologies for any offense

No Problem, mekanik

dudz
17-08-2013, 10:45 PM
Great responses there thanks.
Good videos too thanks Jonathon. just watched a bit of one.

It may be the case of getting the parts I need made now by someone else, while I try to obtain a good machine then. I am still getting used to my CNC/router. But I would love a lathe soon.

JAZZCNC
17-08-2013, 10:58 PM
Something like a secondhand Boxford should cost much the same money and be a gazillion times stronger and more rigid. Loads on ebay, Gumtree, etc., choose one with all the tooling.

Completely agree Pete but Dudz's in France so he may struggle to find a Boxford over there.? I'd suggest you look out for an Ex-school or collage lathe has they tend to be cheap and suitable for new users has they are designed with learners in mind. They also have loads of tooling with them.


For a cut-off tool, get an insert type. Either greentool, or I'm now using the APT multidirection parting/grooving tool with good results and it's pretty cheap.

Now aint that strange because I prefer HSS for cut off because I can grind edge back, never liked the tipped cutoff tools. All my other tooling is tipped thou and I love it.

To be honest like Jonathan says it's probably better for first time user and the other thing is that carbide Tipped tooling prefers to be run hard and smaller lathes can't run at that level.

dudz
17-08-2013, 10:58 PM
If you've no space not an option perhaps but worth considering


I have bags of space, just built myself a huge workshop :pride: just deep pockets and short arms. I will keep looking for bigger used machines.

irving2008
17-08-2013, 11:03 PM
Good videos too thanks Jonathon. just watched a bit of one
Hmpf :biggrin:

JAZZCNC
17-08-2013, 11:04 PM
I am still getting used to my CNC/router. But I would love a lathe soon.

What about a small CNC lathe.? If you only need small parts then they are great and not too far removed from using CNC router.
You can pickup Old school CNC lathes cheap and convert to Mach3, I've got 2 here that came from schools and just need drives/BOB it'sjust the same has CNC router just 1 axis less and speed control for spindle. . . If you can build CNC router you can convert a Ex-school lathe.

dudz
17-08-2013, 11:07 PM
Hmpf :biggrin:


Hahaha sorry irving, wasnt paying too much attention !!

dudz
17-08-2013, 11:09 PM
If I could do it for 500 quid, I would be interested Jazz. Or maybe a longer project.

m_c
17-08-2013, 11:11 PM
justremovingsomeusefulposts

Swarfing
17-08-2013, 11:11 PM
Completely agree Pete but Dudz's in France so he may struggle to find a Boxford over there.? I'd suggest you look out for an Ex-school or collage lathe has they tend to be cheap and suitable for new users has they are designed with learners in mind. They also have loads of tooling with them.

You should be able to pick yourself up a reasonable ex workshop lathe for a good price. Check out Leboncoin.fr, make sure you have screw cutting ability and make sure it comes with all the appropriate change wheels etc. I have a Vernier TV 280 (pain in PITA spindle) which is a very good machine. Make sure you have a typical nose fitting as well so that you get chuck back plates etc easily not like me.

dudz
17-08-2013, 11:15 PM
You should be able to pick yourself up a reasonable ex workshop lathe for a good price. Check out Leboncoin.fr, make sure you have screw cutting ability and make sure it comes with all the appropriate change wheels etc. I have a Vernier TV 280 (pain in PITA spindle) which is a very good machine. Make sure you have a typical nose fitting as well so that you get chuck back plates etc easily not like me.

Yep, I look on Leboncoin every day. But they seems to sell their used lathes for 100 euros per kilo ! . I will keep looking though thx

Swarfing
17-08-2013, 11:17 PM
Check out models made by FAM that are popular over your side of the waters as well.

dudz
17-08-2013, 11:22 PM
Tour a metaux VERNIER Équipements Industriels Ardèche - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/454118854.htm?ca=6_s)

Example

Swarfing
17-08-2013, 11:29 PM
That would be fantastic but has the same crappy spindle nose fitment as mine which is an A1-4 (direct nose). Chucks are impossible to find at a reasonable cost. But if you can get it for the right price then you could factor that in. Good things about it is the middle bit is a scrap bin with a coolant pump under neath. You would need two VFD's to run it and that would cost you another £150ish to add. Ask him what the lowest he would take for it and mention the problem of obtaining chucks and upgrading it to run on a single supply?

Swarfing
17-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Oh forgot to mention it only has a 25mm hole through the spindle which can be a limiting factor? also the tailstock suffer from wear apart from that they are solid

Swarfing
17-08-2013, 11:36 PM
Check out Page Title (http://www.lathes.co.uk/vernier/)

The yahoo group linked at the bottom is mine and very few in the uk have joined?

dudz
18-08-2013, 06:40 PM
TOUR METAUX NEUF capacité de tournage 250mm Équipements Industriels Ille-et-Vilaine - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/494738570.htm?ca=6_s)

Tour a métaux Outillage - Matériaux 2nd-oeuvre Gard - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/493532281.htm?ca=6_s)

Tour a metaux CELTIC 12 banc court Équipements Industriels Pas-de-Calais - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/517934979.htm?ca=6_s)

Some more exaples of what I can find on Leboncoin.fr , The first one being new. I dont really want to spend more than 500 Euros for a complete machine.

bikepete
18-08-2013, 07:10 PM
Of those three the second (Star) lathe looks by far the nicest - most pricey too of course.

The first on your list is a generic Chinese hobby lathe - 125 kg, so a step up from a C3 but still no comparison to the big boys in the other links. Available from several sellers no doubt, for much the same price. For just a bit more money you could get the (heavier) Arc version with tooling bundle:

Model Super C6 Lathe - Arc Euro Trade (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/Model-Super-C6-Lathe)

but it's twice your budget anyway...

You may be pushing it to get anything decent for 500 euros - maybe a plain turning lathe (without screwcutting capacity) perhaps? Or something very knackered. Or you might have to just get lucky (personal connections/putting word around locally might find you the best deal - I'm sure most sales don't get advertised.)

JAZZCNC
18-08-2013, 07:14 PM
I would go snatch that Star up before it's gone, thats a very nice and capable Lathe for that money.

dudz
18-08-2013, 08:56 PM
I would go snatch that Star up before it's gone, thats a very nice and capable Lathe for that money.

Well he is a 10 hour drive from me, but I have made him the best offer I can (A 2004 GasGas txt pro trials bike) but I am not holding my breath !!

JAZZCNC
18-08-2013, 09:32 PM
Well he is a 10 hour drive from me, but I have made him the best offer I can (A 2004 GasGas txt pro trials bike) but I am not holding my breath !!

Nice Bike (Got 2011 280 Beta factory myself) and worth little more than the Lathe so if he's into bikes he'll take you upon it, I would anyway.!

Swarfing
18-08-2013, 11:12 PM
How about these if you are looking at more money?

Annonces Colchester tour Toute la France - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/annonces/offres/bretagne/occasions/?f=a&th=1&q=Colchester+tour)


If you have the room?

Tour COLCHESTER MASCOT 1600 Équipements Industriels Haute-Savoie - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/514118617.htm?ca=6_s)

Much smaller

Tour à metaux colchester 5x20 chipmaster Bricolage Ille-et-Vilaine - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/443853065.htm?ca=6_s)

Better still don't mess around and get a CNC lathe

Tour numerique Équipements Industriels Ardèche - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/499751279.htm?ca=6_s)

JAZZCNC
19-08-2013, 12:13 AM
Bloody hell that Emco's cheap It's almost worth a trip to France.!!

dudz
19-08-2013, 10:00 PM
How about this :
Tour hernault Bricolage Finistère - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/493486083.htm?ca=6_s)

or this ;
Tour a metaux Bricolage Ille-et-Vilaine - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/517989674.htm?ca=6_s)

Or this ;
Tour à métaux EMCO MAXIMAT V10-P tour fraiseuse Bricolage Morbihan - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/510873173.htm?ca=6_s)

mekanik
20-08-2013, 12:48 AM
Hi dudz
I only had a look @ the Elliot as i bought a new Emcomat 7L about 30 years ago,desperately wanted the the V10 but way out of my price range @ the time, my user manual includes the Emcomat 7 & the Maximat V10, if you have a look @ the support bracket @ the end of the bed you will notice it seems long, this is because there should be a feed shaft below the leadscrew(the one with the handwheel) the machine looks like it's has had a rough life and without the feed screw being present the operator will more than likely have been using the laedscrew for feeding the saddle so could be well worn if it was in better condition it would have been a nice machine & the vertical column is very handy, i have one on mine and can do light milling & gear cutting. You could check to see if spare are still available.

dudz
20-08-2013, 08:01 AM
The first two were jokes anyway. Couldnnt belive they seriously wanted money for them. Second one looks like a converted clothes mangle.

bikepete
20-08-2013, 12:18 PM
The first two were jokes anyway. Couldnnt belive they seriously wanted money for them. Second one looks like a converted clothes mangle.

Bit harsh there Dudz. Second one is more like an instrument lathe, used by e.g. clockmakers etc for small precision parts. Almost always used with collets rather than chucks. Not familiar with the name Jenny but it looks like it might once have been a decent machine, and the collet closer (to the left of the headstock) might be worth a bit to someone as a spare. Seems to be also missing a countershaft to go between motor and the flat pulley headstock. Anyway, it's not the type of thing you want.

First one is probably a second operation lathe - very short bed. Looks solid as a solid thing, but very old. Worth something maybe to the right buyer (not you IMO) but not a lot.

dudz
21-08-2013, 10:11 AM
I have just been offered a lathe in exchange for my bike. I Kid you not, this is the lathe he is offering !
Tour parallele sculfort grosse capacité Équipements Industriels Nord - leboncoin.fr (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/139564307.htm?ca=6_s)

I think maybe a little to large for my projects.