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View Full Version : Dyna mechtronics DM3000 lathe , mach conversion



deisel
17-11-2013, 05:35 PM
This is a first conversion of any kind for me and im not sure where to start what needs to go what to keep particularly with the tool changer:
theres an almost 3/4 inch thick manual that came with it so a fair bit of reading to do and i will add to the thread as i go.
edited to add the parts list so far
.................................................. .................................................. .....................................
spindle speed board http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-107
breakout board http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-126
70v psu
stepper motors-sy60 nema23,s from zapps
drivers- DQ860MA 80V 7.8A

deisel
17-11-2013, 05:41 PM
few other pics

Jonathan
17-11-2013, 06:59 PM
not sure where to start

I think start by giving it a thorough clean, then oil it. It looks like you've got it outside at the moment so you definitely want to put oil on the bed and get it indoors asap to stop it rusting.


what needs to go

It depends if you need to convert it to mach3 or not. If the existing system still works, then you'd save a lot of effort just leaving it as it is.


what to keep particularly with the tool changer:

Easiest option is just remove everything from the control box and start again, but you might be able to save a bit by re-using some parts. For instance the power supplies might be suitable for modern stepper drivers, so check their voltage and current ratings if you can. Look at what the spindle (which oddly enough I can't see in the photos?) is connected to - there's likely an encoder and some sort of driver for the motor. Also see what the toolchanger connected to.

From your pictures it looks like the stepper motors are Nema34. Have you tried googling the part numbers on them to see if you can find a datasheet? If you're lucky the current ratings might be written on them.

deisel
17-11-2013, 07:47 PM
thanks.
ive attatched pdfs of all the electronics,a lad on the zones also given me a macro for mach3 that was written for this toolchanger,
im hoping to do away with all the electronics if i can and re-new with up to date stuff.
im told the company it came from was forever having someone out to sort out the electrics so they give it the boot.

Jonathan
17-11-2013, 07:57 PM
Since most of the things seem to be opto-isolated, it would be relatively straightforward to connect a parallel port breakout board to these opto-isolators, and have Mach3 control them directly. Perhaps do that for the spindle and ATC, but replace the stepper drivers with modern ones? Do you know what part of the electronics kept going wrong with it?

deisel
17-11-2013, 09:29 PM
Im not sure what was wrong with it,.I bought it fully committed to convert it to mach regardless of wether it worked or not as trying to run it via the factory control system looked like a bit of a head do-er and as im used to mach..

deisel
01-05-2014, 01:59 PM
can anyone recommend a decent breakout board that will control things like coolant toolchanger spindle speed etc.i don't want to go with cheap/make do.
parts so far are
stepper motors-sy60 nema23,s from zapps
drivers- DQ860MA 80V 7.8A
70v psu
I like the sound of these pmdx-126 boards with a 107 spindle board but am I right in thinking id need to go digital drives to work with this? im not a tech head... all references to these ive come across seem to recommend qecko drivers.
I cant stretch to buying posh drivers as well,without getting a concussion from the wife.
any alternative solutions, a bit of direction thanks

JAZZCNC
01-05-2014, 03:05 PM
I like the sound of these pmdx-126 boards with a 107 spindle board but am I right in thinking id need to go digital drives to work with this? im not a tech head... all references to these ive come across seem to recommend qecko drivers.


No you can use them with any drives you like and they are IMO by far the best BOB on the market by long way. (Even thou one just cost me 24hrs head banging this weekend.!!)
You won't go wrong with this board and while digital drives are very nice to have a Good BOB is certainly equal on my priority list. There's nothing you can buy in this country that comes close to the PMDX.

deisel
01-05-2014, 06:55 PM
ta jazz,just waiting for a reply from em on delivery

deisel
02-05-2014, 05:06 PM
[QUOTE=Jonathan;51530]
Look at what the spindle (which oddly enough I can't see in the photos?) is connected to - there's likely an encoder and some sort of driver for the motor. Also see what the toolchanger connected to.
QUOTE]
the spindle motors an SEM MT30 U4-48 MT30 Series Servomotors (http://www.servodynamics.com/MT30.html)
theres a big board see image for the spindle motor, theres so many parts,and the manual really only covers operation and maintenance below spindle servo board p/n-ss-227-rev.3
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the power supplys are both 24v and the one on the end 5v
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various other bits,the board below looks to be some kind of breakout board, theres connector sockets marked L,T,X,Z, T being for the tool changer and the L? and a blue socket on the back the encoder ribbon plugged in to. p/n-3000-ds-213-rev.4a
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drivers were in a sorry state and looked to have been repaired a number of times
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tach
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m_c
02-05-2014, 11:58 PM
The specs for that motor are a bit vague, however I'm guessing it has a tach built in going by the fact tach details are listed on all the pages for that motor.

To make them run closed loop using the PMDX, you'd need some form of driver that would close the loop and be controlled via step-dir.
If you're not bothered about running the spindle fully closed loop, a simple step/dir to 0-10V converter combined with a suitable servo amplifier (one of those boards will be a servo amplifier, but you'd need to research exactly what kind of input it takes) will give you open loop speed control.
Alternatively, you could just run the motor as a basic DC motor, using something like a KB driver board, which simply takes a 0-10V input and adjusts the output accordingly.

deisel
03-05-2014, 11:22 AM
thanks for the reply mc I have no experience with electronics what so ever.
my limited understanding is for things like threading I want closed loop?
should I be looking at something like this for the spindle motor
DCser004# Dc servo motor driver, closed loop controller-in Motor Driver from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DCser004-Dc-servo-motor-driver-closed-loop-controller/718410307.html)

edited yes your right it seems they all have a built in tach,i managed to find an exploded drawing of one not quite identical,
http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/Accessories/SEM/SEM_DC_motor_parts.html

Jonathan
03-05-2014, 12:14 PM
That driver is the right sort of thing, but the rated voltage of the motor is 140V, so you want one around that voltage. It's about 1.4kW. It looks like the big transformer might be supplying the motor - does the transformer say on it what the output voltage is? It might be supplied without a transformer... not sure.

deisel
03-05-2014, 01:31 PM
thanks jon,
yes the transformers feeding the motor via various other bits not sure what the are yet, but theres no info on the transformer output theres two conversion threads on the zone they use something called a bardac 1600i board in post 53 The Dyna Myte 3000 Project - Page 5 (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dyna-mechtronics/99679-dyna-myte-3000-project-5.html) this fella says the output of his bardac is 80vdc and doesnt notice any reduction in speed.,
I will aim to get the correct rated drive.. im still looking.
edited I came across this 160v servo driver also sold on ebay Europe,any good?
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64_77&products_id=636

m_c
03-05-2014, 11:22 PM
If you're relying on Mach for threading, then you don't need closed loop. Mach only needs, and can only handle a single pulse per revolution, which it then uses to control the Z-axis, so the spindle itself doesn't have to run closed loop. The spindle just has to maintain a relatively constant speed, to ensure things remain in sync.

If you are going to be using some form of external motion controller, then the spindle and feedback requirements vary.

deisel
04-05-2014, 08:30 AM
Thanks for explaining that m_c
To anyone ,will this be sufficient running my spindle motor http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121287187194&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en I would also use a braking circuit.
spoke to the seller yesterday and says the drive will be about 140v output due to 10-12% power loss on the bridge of the drive

But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .

Jonathan
04-05-2014, 01:08 PM
If you're relying on Mach for threading, then you don't need closed loop. Mach only needs, and can only handle a single pulse per revolution, which it then uses to control the Z-axis, so the spindle itself doesn't have to run closed loop. The spindle just has to maintain a relatively constant speed, to ensure things remain in sync.

One pulse per revolution is closed loop, just not a very good one! You don't need a position loop though, just speed. I'd have thought using an external driver with a reasonably high resolution encoder would be better since the driver will be able to do a much better job of holding the speed constant (and ensuring the average is exact) than Mach3 with one 1ppr.


But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .

If they don't mention it anywhere, that's surprising, but you can always count the terminals and look at the labels. In general, four terminals means it's a stepper driver, three terminals (UVW) means it's a 3-phase brushless driver and two terminals will be a DC driver. There are rare exceptions.

m_c
04-05-2014, 11:52 PM
One pulse per revolution is closed loop, just not a very good one!
It's not closed loop.
To me closed loop would mean using that pulse to control the spindle, but it doesn't. It simply uses the pulse as a reference for syncing the Z-axis.

m_c
05-05-2014, 12:05 AM
To anyone ,will this be sufficient running my spindle motor DG4S 16035 Positioning DC Servo Drive Mach3 CNC | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121287187194&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en) I would also use a braking circuit.
spoke to the seller yesterday and says the drive will be about 140v output due to 10-12% power loss on the bridge of the drive

But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .

That drive should work. However you need to ensure you have an incremental encoder, that outputs a quadrature signal (usually referenced as A & B outputs). You'll need to figure out eaxctly what the existing feedback device is, to see if it'll be any use.

deisel
06-05-2014, 01:21 PM
thanks again mc the encoders a HP heads-6310 021 a s. from what ive read it does use A & B outputs,id forgotten the schematics on page 1 so hopefully the pin info is in there

edited heds 5000 and 6000 series encoders seem to be the same diagram,
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.

Jonathan
06-05-2014, 01:57 PM
thanks again mc the encoders a HP heads-6310 021 a s. from what ive read it does use A & B outputs,id forgotten the schematics on page one so hopefully the pin info is in there

This thread on CNCzone says it has A,B outputs and an index pulse with 5V supply voltage, so that's ideal. The second schematic you posted has the connection diagram for the encoder. That's sufficient - so long as you still have the same connector on the encoder and know which is pin 1 (i.e. which way round it goes)? If this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7oiuxCqKnM) responds that would help if you don't know which way round.

Edit: Helpful post about these encoders on CNCZone here (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo-motors-drives/15923-looking-info-heds-5310-encoder.html#post179719):



From an 1985 HP databook.


The 5 in 5310 is the size 28 mm diameter encoders. The 3 in 5310 points to ordering info, emitter plate only(?), 0 is a complete kit. The 1 is 3 channel (+index), 0 is no index. The 0 is mechanical configuration, 0.6 mtr flatcable. It must be followed by an option letter for resolution:


C - 100 CPR
D - 192 CPR
E - 200 CPR
F - 256 CPR
G - 360 CPR
H - 400 CPR
A - 500 CPR
I - 512 CPR


additional CPR-codes (6000-series)
B - 1000 CPR
J - 1024 CPR


After this comes a double digit, coding for shaft size, which I leave out for sunday laziness.


Pinout bottom view:


Edit: I see that all spaces, that would make the following clear are eaten up, so I will add for each pin (PIN)
Vcc PIN 2 PIN 1 Channel A
NC or Ground PIN 4 PIN 3 Ground
Ground PIN 6 PIN 5 NC or Ground ---With bottom view here the Connector Notch
Channel B PIN 8 PIN 7 Vcc
Channel Index PIN 10 PIN 9 Vcc


Note: all the Vcc's and Grounds must be connected, they function as noise suppression.
Carel


Just noticed I've got an old (big) DC-motor with a HEDS-6300 encoder on it, so I'll try it when I've got time...

Edit 2:
Found a datasheet for the HEDS-5000 series encoders. I've uploaded it here (http://jbcnc.co.uk/documents/HEDS_5000_Optical_Encoders.pdf). From the part numbering mentioned above, it seems that the 6000 series are the same just in a bigger package, so we can probably assume the pinout is the same...check it vs the schematic you posted.

deisel
24-08-2014, 04:58 PM
sorry jonathan id totally forgotten about the above post.
Ballscrews fitted,steppers fitted,its almost there.
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deisel
24-08-2014, 05:24 PM
Ive made a start on the electricals /enclosure (photos will be up soon) and decided to go for the DG4S-16035 positioning DC servo drive and a BRKC-180 braking circuit to power the spindle motor..i had come across a few on the zone using these on there mills with no complaints
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im assuming the heds encoder/blue ribbon will need to be rigged up to this DG drive via one of these differential line drivers in the link http://cncdrive.com/Difflinedriver.html.

deisel
25-08-2014, 09:54 PM
Had a poke around the spindle motor area took off the wiring cover to reveal the connection block.
the block is printed with he following wire colours to each letter
T1 RED
T2 BLACK
K1 RED
K2 BLACK
A1 WHITE
A1 BLACK
B1 RED
B2 BLACK
.edited i completely missed the pin out info on the back of the lid so will stick below as I couldn't find it on line edited..what are the K1and K2 wires with the T/0 below it ?
SEM MT30 U4-48
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second question I have is..
with me using the heds encoder and plugging that into the dc servo drive as the manual instructs,
is the optical sensor that sits on top of the spindle and the tach no longer required??
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I don't understand why I would need 3 forms of feedback yet they were all installed as standard when the lathe was in its original state.

deisel
31-08-2014, 08:55 PM
It turns out I don't need to be concerned with anything other than the encoder so I don't need the rest
im on the wiring next,it wont be pretty.
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ive no experience with electronics but I should be ok with wiring the drives getting the motors moving etc
one thing im struggling with and cant find info on is the tool turret card and the 24v solenoid that operates the turret lock and how/where I would go about wiring these into the pmdx 126 board.
EDITED Found the info for the board
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EddyCurrent
31-08-2014, 09:41 PM
..what are the K1and K2 wires with the T/0 below it ?

thermal overload, over temperature probably

deisel
06-09-2014, 04:49 PM
right apparently I can use the k1 relay on the pmdx board to work the turret solenoid .
does the wiring from my turret board to the pmdx look ok in the image below?if so can/should I daisy chain the grounds on the pmdx?
Ive also received an email telling me as the lathe has a turret I will need either a smooth stepper or a second parallel port.. so im thinking this if anyone has any thoughts on it.http://www.cncdrive.com/UC300.html
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JAZZCNC
06-09-2014, 06:38 PM
Not sure if the PMDX is common gnd (Edit: Looks like it is) or if the 5V Gnd is isolated from the inputs.? If common gnd it will use the 5V supply Gnd as it's potential ref so won't need jumpers. If not then you will need you to connect the Input Gnd's to 5v supply Gnd's. In either case won't hurt to daisy chain if unsure.
Same if you use external 5V or 12V you will need to reference Inputs to that supply's Gnd.

deisel
17-11-2014, 08:06 PM
edited now braking for spares.moved on.

Jonathan
17-11-2014, 08:41 PM
Getting there :)

From the video it sounds like the solenoid on the ATC, which holds the tool rack rigidly, is not being activated. Once it's wired up (using a spare relay on the PDMX or an external one, with the 24V psu) you can configure it to one of the outputs then add a line to the vbscript which runs the ATC. For example if you set the solenoid on to output #2 and put the correct pin for the relay, then you just add the line 'DeActivateSignal(OUTPUT2)' to the start of the script to switch the solenoid off so the rack can rotate, then put 'ActivateSignal(OUTPUT2)' at the end of the script to switch the solenoid back on.

mikeyz3385
12-12-2015, 12:20 AM
Hi everyone, diesel were you able to successfully complete building your dm3000? I purchased one a couple months ago and am in the process of converting mine to mach 3 but I wanted to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind.

mikeyz3385
12-12-2015, 04:35 AM
Any new updates with this? I recently purchased a 3000 about 2 months ago and am slowly starting to convert it but in need to some guidance